General Debate 12 July 2014

July 12th, 2014 at 9:03 am by Kokila Patel
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194 Responses to “General Debate 12 July 2014”

  1. mandk (1,018 comments) says:

    The latest edition of the David Cunliffe fanzine is out.

    No fewer than five photos of him on the Herald landing page.

    Toilet quick. I feel sick.

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  2. hj (7,066 comments) says:

    TV3 drive-by:
    Perception of immigration issues wrong – Professor

    Immigration is a hot topic in the United States at the moment as President Barack Obama backs a bill which would give illegal immigrants who are already in the country an opportunity to become citizens.
    Leading American economics professor David Card has researched the effect of immigration on labour markets. He says the common catchcry that immigrants “steal jobs” is incorrect.
    “I think the research that has been accumulated over the last two decades suggests that that’s really a misplaced concern,” he says.
    “Most of the research has shown that immigration on average is good for the economy. It has maybe a small amount of effects on very specific groups, but generally speaking the effects have been almost always positive.”

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Perception-of-immigration-issues-wrong—Professor/tabid/417/articleID/351857/Default.aspx#ixzz37BsiLbeC

    Nobel Lauriete Paul Krugman dissagrees.

    Immigration is an intensely painful topic for a liberal like myself, because it places basic principles in conflict. Should migration from Mexico to the United States be celebrated, because it helps very poor people find a better life? Or should it be condemned, because it drives down the wages of working Americans and threatens to undermine the welfare state? I suspect that my March 27 column will anger people on all sides; I wish the economic research on immigration were more favorable than it is.

    In writing this piece I drew mainly on three sources, research papers by economists I know and trust. First is a paper, “Immigration Policy,” by Gordon H. Hanson (pdf) of the University of California at San Diego, . Mr. Hanson is one of my former students, and a leading expert on all matters having to do with U.S.-Mexican economic relations, especially issues having to do with income distribution. This paper gives a good overview of the (small) gains from immigration and the fiscal impacts.

    Second is a paper by George Borjas and Lawrence Katz of Harvard, “The Evolution of the Mexican-Born Workforce in the United States.” (pdf). Mr. Borjas is a leading expert on immigration issues; Mr. Katz is one of America’s leading labor economists.

    Third is a paper by Mr. Hanson, Matthew Slaughter of Dartmouth (another former student) and Kenneth Scheve (pdf) of the University of Michigan. This paper alerted me to the way immigration penalizes more generous states.

    Like all research results, the conclusions of these papers may have to be revised in the light of future research. But I’m afraid that the three negative conclusions I stressed in the column are fairly robust.

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/03/27/notes-on-immigration/?_r=0
    I guess a great man can see through the liberal (and self-interested ) bias?

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  3. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Mandk I thought exactly the same thing.

    Do you reckon they will continue this every weekend until the election?

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  4. Nukuleka (347 comments) says:

    Plans being unveiled today about a Christchurch memorial for the earthquake victims. There is, interestingly, already an earthquake memorial at the Avonhead Park Cemetery in Christchurch where the remains of many of the victims are interred. It is a simple and beautiful circular rose garden. Not too sure that money needs to be spent an a further memorial.

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  5. Tarquin North (361 comments) says:

    Started raining hard about lunch time yesterday, stopped about seven this morning and has just started again. Most highways are closed and now they are saying we could get tornadoes in eastern coastal areas which sounds strangely like my place. I am utterly sick of this weather and wish I was in Kansas!

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  6. Pete George (23,685 comments) says:

    There’s been wide and varied reactions to David Cunliffe’s “sorry to be a man” comment and to Tania Billingsley casting aside anonymity and speaking out about her feeling about the political reaction to her case.

    This is understandable, especially when collective guilt is applied to “all men” and men are told to shut up and not talk about it. Many men and more than a few women have reacted against this. Some of the response has been reactionary and awful, especially when politics is put into the mix. Some of it has been angry.

    But, and this is a big BUT, there is much deeper anger seething to the surface. Survivors of rape and domestic violence have deep hurt about what men have done to them and anger about the attitudes on display. Murray McCully is bearing the brunt of much of this. His apparent nonchalance and disinterest in the Malaysian diplomat case has spark a furor.

    This angry reaction has taken many aback because while the feelings are evident the reasons are not clear to most people. There’s a good reason for this. Most survivors of brutality don’t like talking about their ordeals, especially in public, so their side of the story has been missed by most.

    While many men have been momentarily miffed by accusations of guilt they can quickly move on to other things. Survivors can’t. Every time a rape case or a murder or assault is publicised it reminds then and drags their hurt to the surface again.

    On a blog yesterday someone did speak out and put the respective hurt and anger into perspective – “I got an apology”… said no survivor of rape or gendered violence ever.

    As I write this I am so tired. I am tired of repeating myself. Tired of having to explain why the “not all men” arguments are damaging and not a legitimate or helpful response to discussions about violence against women. There are women on this planet who have had legs ripped out from their sockets while being raped. There are women who have been beaten so badly they have not survived. My friend was hit so hard one time she shat herself. It is hard to say anything new about the same old issues when so few people hear the voices of those who have survived. When change is incremental. When the response is so often “…not all men”. Yeah. Moving on.

    That level of violence is always perpetrated by men. Disgraceful male animals.
    “I got an apology”… said no survivor of rape or gendered violence ever – See more at: http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/07/11/i-got-an-apology-said-no-survivor-of-rape-or-gendered-violence-ever/#sthash.UC0cpEoa.dpuf
    Most men abhor this sort of violence. But those who are miffed when the blame finger is pointed at them need to understand my some women – far too many women – are angry at men.

    Why women are angry at Murray McCully for appearing not to care about victims. Why they don’t give a toss about the hurt feelings of peaceful men.

    Sure they may overstate culpability of males who are not violent. But that comes from eons of their violation and hurt being grossly understated and ignored.

    You know we have a massive problem as a society when a man apologising for the violence men commit against women causes more outcry and insult than the violence he is apologising for.

    One billion women on this planet have survived violence. One billion women are living with the aftermath of this violence; the PTSD, the nightmares, the anxiety, the isolation, the shame and stigma… the blame. When a man says sorry for the abuse women have survived, why do so many people and media sources run to defend “good, non-violent men” everywhere, but when a woman has the courage to speak about surviving her own rape or surviving violence she is shamed? Why is she asked “What where you wearing?”, “Were you drunk?”, “Did you say no?”, “Did you deserve it?” Why does no one run to her defence?

    Some do quietly defend and confront the excuses and redirection of blame. That often results in attacks – I’ve been viciously attacked and receive ongoing abuse in social media for speaking up against man crap.

    But much more male speaking up has to happen to confront one of society’s dirtiest secrets.

    I’m not sorry I’m a man at all. Neither is my wife sorry I’m a man.

    But I’m sorry for the fact that more men don’t speak up and confront diverting and demeaning language – man crap. I see the excuses and the making women responsible for their safety frequently.

    Men should be collectively doing far more about it.

    Bickering about who is and who isn’t to blame is pointless. Men need to come up with a way of fixing their own shitty record of wrecking women’s and children’s lives.

    Only a small minority of men are vicious animals, but they cause a huge amount of damage in our society.

    We can either say it’s not our fault, not our problem and ignore it.

    Or we can collectively stand up and do far more about it.

    A good way for Murray McCully to end his privileged political career would be to make a real symbolic difference, but for him to do that he woukld have to understand the problem he is very much a part of.

    I don’t agree with this petition – Demand Murray McCully, Minister for Foreign affairs, resign.

    Demands are more likely to entrench opinion against resigning.

    But McCully could decide to resign of his own accord, if he got what the problem he is embroiled in is and chose to do something significant about it.

    Victims of rape and violence don’t so much need apologies, they need understanding of their anger and they need far more action to prevent so many women and children’s lives being wrecked, and far better support given to survivors.

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  7. Yvette (2,849 comments) says:

    Is Auckland Super City Mayor Len Brown part of the so-called rape culture that Labour Leader David Cunliffe is so ashamed of? And what would Cunliffe think should be done about if?
    Just wondering …

    And now, reading the comment above, wonder even more …

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  8. FeralScrote (226 comments) says:

    Mandk and Southern Raider …snap.. the Granny has most certainly decided Cunliffe needs their help in his lust for glory.

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  9. Griff (8,197 comments) says:

    Climate change sucks…..eh….
    If you were in Kansas any rain would be a bonus.
    http://www.kwo.org/reports_publications/Drought.htm

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  10. Harriet (5,132 comments) says:

    Barry is setting up socialism from the demand side.

    The US now has a moral obligation to help the illegal entry kids. Heaps more social services. The kids will be divided up and sent to demo cities that have state social services, and the federal budget will help fund them. Then they’ll be expanded.

    And their parents and siblings will seek citizenship in the years ahead, via a Democrat election policy – the Democrat Voter Immigration Quota it will be known as.

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  11. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    When are MSM going to outline Billingsley’s background and activism (she is bad news)? Along with portraying “Tojo” Cunliffe as an everyday man (he is a wimp, liar, and charlatan), I am getting pissed off with the left wing bias we are subject to by media.

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  12. Jack5 (5,161 comments) says:

    Interesting comments on why there is much interest in China about buying NZ property. This comes from Frank Cui, a Chinese national (or he was when he arrived in NZ in 2001) who is head of BNZ’s migrant banking, as reported today in the Hooerald:

    “Property in New Zealand is relatively cheap compared to China,” he says. “The costs have gone through the roof so if you sell one apartment over there you can buy a million dollar house [in New Zealand] easily. So why not?”
    He says the opportunity to buy freehold property, which is not available in China, is also attractive to Chinese buyers.

    Note the lack of reciprocity – New Zealanders (and Chinese) cannot own freehold property in China.

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  13. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    PG

    Have you any thoughts on the stupidity & culpability of women who put themselves at risk by marrying or shacking up with these male “animals” never mind having children by them?

    After all “stranger danger” causes a fraction of the damage of violent relationships.

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  14. Longknives (4,884 comments) says:

    “While many men have been momentarily miffed by accusations of guilt they can quickly move on to other things. ”

    You arrogant prat. What a fucking asshole of a thing to say
    You have no bloody idea what a false rape allegation does to a person… “Momentarily Miffed”???
    Would you consider a career ruined, a $30,000 legal bill, a suicide attempt, a nervous breakdown, two years unemployed and loaded up on anti-anxiety and anti-depressant medication wondering if you were going to jail “Momentarily Miffed”??
    The stigma stays with you for life also- There are friends and family who never spoke to ‘my friend’ again…
    And remember this was a FALSE allegation (The ‘Victim’ eventually admitted she made it up)
    What an absolute prat you are Pete George.
    (*David I will happily take demerits for that angry rant)

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  15. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Longknives: Pete George is obviously one of “Tojo’s” girlie men supporters.

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  16. lilman (967 comments) says:

    So over this RAPE crisis that has suddenly appeared.

    All convicted rapists should be shot.

    What? No you cant do that !!!!!

    Bullshit,if you want rape to stop or diminish then you raise the stakes.
    Forget all this education crap and execute them as they are found guilty ,I know the incidence of rape will drop dramatically.

    Oh and for those women crying rape and wrongly accusing men of the act,then they get the same .

    Think this is wrong? Then stop moaning if you arent going to address the problem then you are the problem.

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  17. Pete George (23,685 comments) says:

    Longknives – I wasn’t referring to false rape allegations, you’ve seen something that wasn’t intended at all.

    You have a right to feel hard done by, you’ve expressed it already a number of times, but false allegations are a completely different issue to what I was talking about.

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  18. Griff (8,197 comments) says:

    Longknives I apologize one of your reds is a green….. I hit the wrong button.

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  19. kowtow (8,776 comments) says:

    Dope smokers are such harmless peaceful characters.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2689175/Father-shook-baby-daughter-death-smoking-cannabis-losing-temper-jailed-minimum-17-years.html

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  20. Pete George (23,685 comments) says:

    nasska – have you thought about the culpability of men who get into relationships and then unleash arsehole attacks, intimidation, threats and use their strength to impose power and hurt on women?

    Or is that side of the equation to be excused and minimised by putting the responsibility on the victims?

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  21. mandk (1,018 comments) says:

    @ Longknives

    What happened to the woman who made the false allegation?

    From what you say about the effects, a false allegation should be judged as seriously as rape itself.

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  22. Bovver (173 comments) says:

    If he had been drinking alcohol Kowtow it wouldn’t have been a problem….oh wait.

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  23. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Long knives , your not suggesting statuary rape be abolished.? There are many crimes, including murder, where there might be a false allegation.But the circumstances are rare.
    A complaint of rape is laid , the police review the evidence and in association with the crown law office make a decision whether or not the charges are credible and withstand the scrutiny before a jury and presiding judge.
    A task not entered into lightly.
    Again the circumstances of false allegations going to trial are rare.Your friend might consider compensation for wrongful imprisonment etc or is there more to the facts of the case than your friend might be willing to admit.?

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  24. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    Well, who’d a thunk it?

    That report out of Australia last week about gays being better parents than heteros ? And that the children are happier and better off? It’s all a load of crap.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/07/are_children_of_gays_better_off.html

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  25. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    I wonder if this is a cunning plan by the Herald sales team. Use the editorial department to try and make the election closer so you can potentially sell more papers

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  26. FeralScrote (226 comments) says:

    A petty cheap shot from Lisa Owen(alleged journalist) at the end of her interview with Paula Bennett where she shot down Owen at every opportunity.
    When you resort to name calling you have lost the argument full stop,Lisa.

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  27. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    Yet a rational person may have delved a little deeper into the story kowtow:

    ….”The jury was told the couple had money worries and Mr Conlin was in trouble at his work with a debt collection agency.
    He was also a cannabis and cocaine user and had been using dating sites, causing tension in the relationship.”…..

    Yep…..nice, quiet, gentle loving debt collector spins out after contact with demon weed. Pull the other one!

    Ref: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hampshire-28266308

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  28. Redbaiter (9,631 comments) says:

    Curious about your future, and where socialism will take the western world? Here’s a glass ball look into whats coming as an inebriated citizenry continue to empower the government class to tyrannize them and to rob them.

    “America Has Ceased to Exist”: Investment Guru Doug Casey on the Coming Economic Meltdown. US focused but it applies to socialist countries across the globe and all places where unsustainable govt spending is going to bring complete economic breakdown.

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  29. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Don the Kiwi,

    Gays better parents. .? Arguable I guess.More empirical data is needed .Early days in the evolution of the law and social practice.But so far there not shown to be any worse than even say Christian parents.
    Time will tell but people move on. Meanwhile fun dies like many Con Party supporters still want us all to go back to the 19th Century.
    Not realistic or feasible.
    Sorry.!

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  30. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    PG

    …..”Or is that side of the equation to be excused and minimised by putting the responsibility on the victims?”…..

    If the women were a little more discerning they wouldn’t be there to be “threatened”, “intimidated” or “hurt”. I’ve actually seen a little of this side of life & I don’t believe I’m fated to understand this facet of too many women’s make up. There is a major subset of females who have a fantasy of “straightening out a bad boy”. It occurs in maybe a tiny percentage of cases but in the rest they & the unfortunate children they have to “cement the relationship” become punching bags.

    If these men were bypassed & denied relationships the problem would disappear.

    Exactly how am I responsible for women’s whimsical dreams?

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  31. kowtow (8,776 comments) says:

    stephie

    “statuary rape”?

    First off statues can’t give consent,second their owners would have to make a complaint and third you’d probably hurt your dick.

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  32. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, an economic doom and gloom meltdown has been predicted since 2007. I wonder how our Investment Guru proposes to benefit and profit from it.?
    Ideas.?

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  33. Steve (North Shore) (4,589 comments) says:

    The Nation, Lisa Owen to Shearer – “So the Greens will be your coalition partner”
    You got ESP Lisa? Do you know something that the voters don’t?

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  34. Redbaiter (9,631 comments) says:

    “Ideas.?”

    Ask the Greeks.

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  35. Gulag1917 (1,018 comments) says:

    stephieboy
    There are so many bubbles e.g. property/housing and derivatives that could pop and cause a meltdown.

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  36. fernglas (174 comments) says:

    While I feel terribly sorry for the wakeboarder who was so badly injured, and for his family, I wonder why they need to be launching an appeal for funds for his medical treatment or repatriation. Surely anyone in their right mind would have medical insurance when they go to the States, particularly to engage in high risk sport?

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  37. SGA (1,143 comments) says:

    kowtowat 9:59 am

    stephie
    “statuary rape”?
    First off statues can’t give consent,second their owners would have to make a complaint and third you’d probably hurt your dick.

    I think he’s referring to the young man who got stuck in a “vagina” sculpture recently. :-)

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  38. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Kowtow, as usual your making a lot of sense.!
    ( less ness )

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  39. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    “Climate change sucks…..eh….
    If you were in Kansas any rain would be a bonus.
    http://www.kwo.org/reports_publications/Drought.htm

    normal people call this weather….

    Of course as Global Warming (aka climate change) is cause of everything, it causes wet weather in New Zealand (Until it causes droughts) and droughts in the states (Until it causes wet weather). I causes ice to melt in the Arctic and ice to grow in the Antarctic.
    Climatology it is the new government approved, data less, unfalsifiable precautionary global warming consensus science.

    So, is Global warming ™ causing more droughts and showing a worsening trend in the US as the global warming consensus science claims?

    Well, not according to the data.

    While the 20th Century instrumental period includes several extreme individual dry years, it was the century with the fewest such years of the entire reconstruction. Extended droughts were more severe in duration, magnitude, and intensity prior to the instrumental record, including the most protracted drought of the record, which spanned 16 years from 1703 to 1718. Extreme wet years and periods are also a regular feature of the reconstruction. A strong early 17th Century pluvial exceeds the early 20th Century pluvial in magnitude, duration, and intensity, and dwarfs the 1980s wet period that caused significant flooding along the Wasatch Front.
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jawr.12191/abstract

    So what about droughts globally?

    Nope, the global trend is also less drought.

    http://www.nature.com/articles/sdata20141/figures/5

    Obviously the data is wrong.
    Time to homogenise and adjust the data so it conforms to the new government approved, data less, unfalsifiable precautionary global warming consensus science.

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  40. RightNow (6,998 comments) says:

    Twelve Urban Myths of Climate Change

    1.”Global warming is happening.”

    No: According to the RSS satellite record, there has been none for 17 years 10 months.

    2.”Warming is faster than we thought.”

    No: In 1990 the climate models predicted that global warming would happen twice as fast as it has.

    3.”There’s a 97 percent consensus.”

    No: Only 0.5 percent of the authors of 11,944 scientific papers on climate and related topics over the past 21 years said they agreed that most of the warming since 1950 was man-made.

    4.”Droughts are getting worse.”

    No: A recent paper in the learned journals shows the fraction of the world’s land under drought has fallen for 30 years.

    5.”Floods are getting worse.”

    No: The U.N.’s panel has said in two recent reports that there has been no particular change in the frequency or severity of floods worldwide.

    6.”Sea ice is melting.”

    No: It has grown to a new record high in the Antarctic, though the Arctic icecap has been shrinking a little in summer.

    7.”Sea level is rising dangerously.”

    No: Some satellites show it as rising a little, while others show it as falling.

    8.”Hurricanes are getting worse.”

    No: Their combined frequency, severity and duration has been at or near the lowest in the 35-year satellite record.

    9.”Global warming caused recent extreme weather.”

    No: There has been no warming recently, so it cannot have caused any extreme weather in recent years.

    10.”Global warming will reduce the number of redheads.”

    No: This is one of many scare stories about imaginary effects of warmer weather.

    11.”The ocean is acidifying.”

    No: The ocean remains decidedly alkaline, and there cannot be much change in its acid-base balance because it is buffered by the basalt rocks in which it lies.

    12.”It’s cheaper to act now, just in case.”

    No: It is 10-100 times costlier to try to prevent global warming today than to let it happen and pay the cost of adapting to it the day after tomorrow.

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  41. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    What is the personal association between Billingsley and Logie? Seems we are being kept in the dark by media, possibly on the directions of Little (he still controls the union plebs masquerading as journos). Come on people, this is a bloody political stunt, smelling of Goff, Mallard, Fat Fairy, and Shearer.

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  42. EAD (1,326 comments) says:

    Reddie,

    thanks for the Doug Casey video – Doug is one of the most insightful political commentators around and I have a lot of time for him.

    Here is a good article of his over on Zerohedge which I recall reading about 2 years ago. He talks about when Americas moral bankruptcy started and he points to 1913 with the creation of both the Federal Reserve and the income tax in 1913, which made it possible to finance the country’s completely pointless entry into World War 1.

    From there, with the New Deal, World War 2, Korea, the Great Society, Vietnam and so on, the US has gradually descended into becoming a very aggressive welfare/warfare state. It now has an overt government policy of inflating the currency, which constitutes a fraud, and running up the national debt, which is a swindle because it will never be repaid.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/doug-casey-sociopathy-running-us-part-two

    The thing that keeps me hopeful is the idea of America is not dead yet and is in fact getting stronger as evidenced by the Tea Party and Ron Paul getting amazing support in the Republican primaries by people who understand an idea “liberty”, will fight for it, and are heavily armed. Literally the battle for the free world is going to be fought on American soil – it’ll literally be the Government fighting its own people while all the free shit army perishes as Uncle Sugar turns off the fiat money tap as other countries say no to funding its debt.

    If America goes full blown fascist/communist, the lights across the world will go out for centuries.

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  43. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Right now,where did you copy and paste that climate denial poppycock.from.?

    An aside.Would it be fair to say Con Party supporters here are trying to promote an Islamic approach to rape culture where women are fair game no more than mere chattels ?

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  44. mikenmild (11,752 comments) says:

    ZeroHedge – promising the imminent end of the world since 2009.

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  45. kowtow (8,776 comments) says:

    right now

    Yep the obsession with global warming is pointless and expensive.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2687995/Axed-50-000-wind-turbine-generated-mere-5-power-month-Turbine-installed-despite-council-warned-location-sheltered.html

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  46. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    EAD, yes WW1 and 2 ,Vietnam, Iraq etc were payed for by deficit funding .How else do you suggest they should been funded.?Certainly not by Ron Paul and his funny money Gold Standard libertarian nonsense.

    Ron Paul actually did relatively poorly in the Repblican primaries.in the two races he entered Rank and file GOP supporters found his loonie social economic thinking unacceptable.

    US not gone into WWI.? .Debatable and there were Hitler fans like Charles Lindburgh who felt the same about about WW2. The iisolationist impulse exists in America as we see today with Ron Paul.

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  47. EAD (1,326 comments) says:

    No – just the end of the fiat money era and those whose world view makes them believe that the state can fund all things for all people for all eternity and that this is entirely sustainable.

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  48. mikenmild (11,752 comments) says:

    ZeroHedge has accurately predicted at least 200 of the last two recessions.

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  49. EAD (1,326 comments) says:

    A good rule of thumb to have is that the more intensely Stephie and Mike attack something, the closer it must be to the truth :)

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  50. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    EAD, and this all can be solved by simply abolishing the Federal Reserve including most of the principal organs of Goverement.?But answer my question.?
    How should wars like WWI and 2 and Iraq be funded.?

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  51. SGA (1,143 comments) says:

    The Kiwiblog ads for dating sites – do we have dime to thank for this? :-)

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  52. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “Would it be fair to say Con Party supporters here are trying to promote an Islamic approach to rape culture where women are fair game no more than mere chattels ?”

    Not only would it not be fair, it would be a lie.

    That is by far the dumbest and most offensive post I think you have ever made, and I’m not even a Conservative Party voter.

    Got a link to the Party website to show they are promoting anything at all like that? No? Thought not.

    I want to thank Redbaiter, EAD and Stephie for giving the rest of us a warning about the dangers of becoming so extreme and so rabidly partisan that your mental health deteriorates and you cease have any connection to reality.

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  53. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Shawn LH, you surprise me but not any more when yesterday you were staunchly defending the C P I believe. .
    I opposed a question not a fact directed at certain C P supporters posting on this thread.
    Not the Conservative Party itself .! Fact.!
    But am glad to see , it appears according to you, the C P does in fact support most of our today’s Social consensus..I understand that Collin Craig in fact supports gays,.?
    Correct me if am wrong.

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  54. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “Extremes to the right and to the left of any political dispute are always wrong.”
    ― Dwight D. Eisenhower

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  55. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Shawn L H,

    PS your saying I’m not permitted to challenge Red baited and EAD in what in my opinion are some of their more strange views. ?
    I hope that apt quote includes those on the extreme right like Red baited who is fond of demonizing those who disagree with as commies etc,etc

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  56. cricko (379 comments) says:

    Not all gay dads are better.

    http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=279298

    These dads were caught through their connection with a paedophile in Wellington NZ
    Peter Truong was eventually handed a 30 year sentence in the US. His partner copped 40 years.

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  57. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “Shawn LH, you surprise me but not any more when yesterday you were staunchly defending the C P”

    Why? I’m a Conservative National voter, so I tend to oppose attacks on conservatism in general.

    “But am glad to see , it appears according to you, the C P does in fact support most of our today’s Social consensus..I understand that Collin Craig in fact supports gays,.?”

    I think you need to read their actual policies Stephie, as your comments generally seem to be plucked from your butt.

    The CP approach seems to be moderately “small-c” conservative. On some issues they are slightly to the Right of National, and on some slightly to the Left.

    They are not, and nor is any mainstream Conservative, trying to drag us back to the 19th century. Comments like that are just as dumb, and just as tiresome, as Red’s claim that John Key is a progressive socialist.

    But the real issue is your hysteria driven campaign to smear them and their voters on a daily basis.

    Is it too much to ask for some generally informed and intelligent commentary from you and Red?

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  58. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    The “Slimy” Manawatu Standard has come out on Billingsley’s side in the so-called sexual assault. It is time this media outlet was banished completely. Why is it that these left-wing scribes jump into bat for feminists . . . are they commanded to by Little?

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  59. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “Shawn L H, your saying I’m not permitted to challenge Red baited and EAD in what in my opinion are some of their more strange views. ?”

    Sure you are, but you rarely do. Most of your challenges are just smears against anyone and everyone on the Right, rather than specific challenges, and your own views on domestic politics are often just as extreme and strange.

    Red claims JK supporters, even conservative ones such as myself, are traitors to his version of the the Cause. You claim that anyone on KB who opposes Obama’s policies is a racist.

    To me, that makes you and Red as nutty as each other.

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  60. Griff (8,197 comments) says:

    1) according to the rss satellite record global warming is accelerating
    cherry picking just one measurement channel out of the data provided by rss and totally ignoring the scary bit
    The stratosphere is cooling at a increasing rate! Channel TLT +0.124 K/decade Channel TLS -0.276 K/decade
    2)climate models from 1990 are extremely accurate
    http://blogs.agu.org/wildwildscience/files/2012/12/rhamstorf.jpg
    3)consensus 97% in many studies
    http://www.sciencemag.org/content/306/5702/1686.full
    http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/article
    http://tigger.uic.edu/~pdoran/012009_Doran_final.pdf
    http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/04/1003187107.abstract
    4)Significant drought in some areas as predicted by a 1982 paper by Henson!
    5 England shows a increase in heavy rainfall events.
    http://www.climateprediction.net/weatherathome/weatherhome-2014/results/#sixth-results
    6) The increase in winter antarctic sea ice is 1/10 the decrees in the arctic as measured in the satellite era. Antarctic levels are known to have declined rapidly in the seventy’s. https://data.aad.gov.au/analysis/crc/eceawiki/files/delamare1997.pdf http://www.geobotany.org/library/pubs/ComisoJC2008_grl_35_L01703.pdf
    7)Sea level rise has increased http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/sea
    8) correct no trend in Accumulated Cyclone Energy
    9)recently as pointed out by rss the earth has accumulated more energy
    10) A Media story is not science buddy the story about redheads was purely rubbish from the media.
    11) The change in ph is supported by measurement and is a direct result of the oceans absorbing more co2. http://www.asoc.org/advocacy/climate-change-and-the-antarctic/ocean-acidification
    12)unsupported rubbish and also contra to you prior arguments that its not actually happening.
    http://www.oecd.org/env/cc/theeconomicsofclimatechangemitigationpoliciesandoptionsforglobalactionbeyond2012.htm
    http://unfccc.int/files/meetings/sb26/side_events_and_exhibits/application/pdf/070512_ipcc_metz.pdf

    Note actually linking to reputable information not just unsupported hand waving and denial echo chamber talking points.
    One twelfth correct is less than random chance that supports my theory you are deliberately wrong
    You should change your handle to wrong often :lol:

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  61. mikenmild (11,752 comments) says:

    igm seems to have something against the alleged victim of a criminal sexual assault.

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  62. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    As to Ead and Red, and maybe a couple of others here, I’m increasingly of the view that Traditionalist Conservatism is incompatible with the more extreme versions (Austrian School as one example) of libertarian economics.

    Conservatives in the US, not all of them by any stretch, but too many, have adopted libertarian economics without any thought as to whether they are compatible with a conservative world view.

    My opinion is that there are serious problems with that political marriage.

    Here is some alternative thinking on a range of issues that respects the Conservative heritage.

    Front Porch Republic. Place. Limits. Liberty.

    http://www.frontporchrepublic.com

    Another source for alternative thinking, specifically on economics, is the Social Market model of the European Right, also known as Rhine Capitalism. In fact, in many respects, this seems to be the model that John Key is implementing in NZ.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy

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  63. Griff (8,197 comments) says:

    One day Shawn you will wake up to the realization that you are not actually a conservative.
    You are classically liberal economically and your stance is leaning more towards social liberal by the day.
    The problem lies in the definition of conservative/ liberal and depends on your base for reference: as in a USA or English or NZs political landscape. .

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  64. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    This Woman Is Picking Up Her Food Stamps in a Mercedes!

    Here’s the sad story of a formerly affluent woman who felt judged for being on welfare, and wants the world to treat her better.

    http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&load=9960&mpid=760

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  65. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    I think Griff that it’s less that I’m not a conservative, and more that I’m willing to seek compromise, on some issues anyway. I’m still immovable when it comes to abortion for example.

    I just think that ideas are made stronger and better, not by isolating themselves in either conservative or liberal ghettos, but by dialogue, debate, and seeking the Via Media (a very Anglican way of looking at things) between the extremes.

    Despite Red’s rhetoric, the National Party for example is made stronger and better by having both conservatives and liberals in the same camp. To me this is likely to produce better policy then either would alone, and certainly better policy than a Labour/Green coalition.

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  66. Gulag1917 (1,018 comments) says:

    Independence for Canada and Australia;

    Two Prime Ministers, One Speech
    Who was pulling the strings of these two puppets? Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, 20 March 2003 and Australian Prime Minister John Howard 18 March 2003. In 2003, Stephen Harper and John Howard delivered largely identical speeches urging their nations to join George W. Bush’s Coalition of the Willing to go to war with Iraq.

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  67. Griff (8,197 comments) says:

    Abortion
    Were do you sit ?
    full on conservative is : not at all for any reason its killing undead baby’s
    The shades of Its ok for genuine medical reasons as long as the risks to the baby or the mother are within a constraint? The degrees possible in this position are wide.
    The position I have is it is a woman’s body not mine so abortion is not my or the governments business it is truly a choice between the medical professional and the woman involved. I would like to see a change towards the rights of the prospective father but dont know how this could be accomplished.
    That is my view as a social liberal I dont think the government should restrict the choices you can make without a extreemly good cause.

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  68. cha (4,081 comments) says:

    The US now has a moral obligation to help the illegal entry kids.

    Nope, a legal obligation courtesy of a 2008 bill passed unanimously by the House of Representatives.

    Rep. Mike Rogers had an idea for how to deal with the 90,000 unaccompanied minors expected to cross the U.S. border this year. “Why aren’t we putting them on a bus like we normally do and sending them back down to Guatemala?” he said to Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson last month at a hearing on the child-migrant crisis lapping at our border.

    “The law that was created in 2008 requires that we turn these kids over—if they are unaccompanied—to the Department of Health and Human Services within 72 hours generally,” Johnson replied. “So that’s what we do.”

    Rogers was part of that very 110th Congress that passed the William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act in 2008 by unanimous consent, no less. The act did many things to combat human trafficking worldwide—including providing assistance to foreign governments to combat abuse and increasing penalties for trafficking crimes. A small portion of the bill concerned added protections for unaccompanied children crossing the U.S. border. Specifically, kids from noncontiguous countries would be transferred to the Health and Human Services Department for care and processing. HHS would then be authorized to appoint advocates for the children and could work to unite the kids with families or place them in foster care.

    http://www.nationaljournal.com/domesticpolicy/why-we-don-t-immediately-send-the-border-kids-back-20140708

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  69. Tauhei Notts (1,748 comments) says:

    Nasska at 9.59.
    Best post today.

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  70. Gulag1917 (1,018 comments) says:

    The distinct possibility is the Canadians plagiarised the Australian PM’s speech

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  71. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    EAD, kowtow, Manolo !Fletch Tom Hunter, Ed Snack etc,etc , this is such good news.!.The US unemployment rate drops tp levels not seen since the 1990s tech boom,

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2014/07/03/unemployment-rate-drops-june-jobs-added/J6VpYzhbPTMiU56TaZwf3J/story.html

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  72. grumpy (270 comments) says:

    Mikenmild, you need to go over the Whale. The story has been exposed as a beat up by the lesbian greens and the Wellington radical young feminist movement. The Standard is also implicated.
    It seems there is MUCH more to this than we have been told or allowed to hear. There are grave doubts that the whole Billingsley thing is a stitch up, but of course the Left knew that before rushing to the media to destroy any chance of extradition much less a conviction.

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  73. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Very ambiguous KB poll. Are you sorry for your gender?

    Hell yes, I wish it was the males that had to give birth – that’d teach ‘em.
    Hell yes, I wish it was the men that had to try walking up a flight of stairs in a skirt with high heels on.
    Hell yes, we have to put up with men, where they get the privilege of putting up with us sweeties! :P

    Are you sorry for your gender, hell yes, I have the greatest sympathy for us females!!

    DPF – you might want to reword your poll, before you draw any conclusions from it.

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  74. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    “Hell yes, I wish it was the men that had to try walking up a flight of stairs in a skirt with high heels on.”

    Sounds OK…would we be expected to shave our legs first? :)

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  75. stigie (1,320 comments) says:

    “Hell yes, I wish it was the men that had to try walking up a flight of stairs in a skirt with high heels on.”

    Damn it Judith, if that was the case i wouldnt mind being purved on, even with hairy legs JB !~

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  76. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ grumpy (232 comments) says:
    July 12th, 2014 at 1:34 pm

    There is absolutely nothing that has been said by the victim that would effect the ability for the alleged offender to get a fair trial. She has not discussed the details of the crime, only the government’s handling of the process. That is not a matter of sub-judice, and would not even be allowed to be mentioned in the Court.

    If the alleged offender is not returned to New Zealand, it is the people that were in charge of the situation, and the Malaysian government. There was plenty of opportunity for the alleged offender to return, before the victim spoke out. It is reasonably clear he was never going to return – which is not Nationals fault – they may have muddied the waters, but once that man got on that plane, he was never coming back – no matter what conversations took place between our two countries.

    People seem to forget which country we are dealing with. One that was prepared to lie to world regarding a plane – stuff up an investigation to save the their own incompetence and protect their own.

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  77. grumpy (270 comments) says:

    If you read the left wing blogs, this Malaysian guy has already been convicted of rape, despite not even being charged. The radical feminist generated hysteria, in collusion with The Standard, Labour, Greens, NZ Herald and TV3 is very concerning.
    Note that today all are deathly silent of the Rape Culture Billingsley beat up.

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  78. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @Johnboy (14,760 comments) says:
    July 12th, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    If you are wearing a mini skirt, you might have to shave more than your legs :P

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  79. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Homosexuality and adultery is fine.

    So why not incest?

    Dr Cathy Kezelman, an advocate for preventing child sex abuse, said incest was horrific, regardless of the ages of those involved.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/10958728/Australian-judge-says-incest-may-no-longer-be-a-taboo.html

    Cathy is obviously a right wing nutcase who probably supports slavery and apartheid as well.*

    (* sarc on – sarc off)

    Next week: Change the oppressive and old fashioned laws regarding public nudity and polygamy.

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  80. grumpy (270 comments) says:

    Judith, Billingsley is purely an anti male radical feminist. That has been proved conclusively on Whaleoil. She has form. The Law Society warned yesterday that this beatup likely meant there might not be a trial but they kept on going. It was only when Karol at The Standard admitted being involved in the beat up that information about Billingsley, her friends, her friends job, started coming out.
    The issue was never about rape, it was about hits on John Key using rape as a shield of sanctimony where any questions as to the story could be claimed as attacking the “victim”.
    The silence of the left today proves they know they have been rumbled and too late attempts are now being made to sanitize Billingsley and her friends internet footprint.

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  81. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ grumpy (233 comments) says:
    July 12th, 2014 at 1:45 pm

    You shouldn’t oughta read blogs if you’re going to believe everything you read on them.

    There are outrageous things posted on this right wing blog everyday – does that mean they should all be believed?
    People use blogs to vent on – they aren’t ‘gospel’ !

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  82. Gulag1917 (1,018 comments) says:

    Economic growth coming to an end?

    “there was virtually no economic growth before 1750, suggesting that the rapid progress made over the past 250 years could well be a unique episode in human history rather than a guarantee of endless future advances at the same rate.”
    Professor Robert Gordon
    “Is US Economic Growth Over?” (September 2012)

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  83. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    In the interests of propriety Judith an elderly gentleman would of course wear a suitiable garment to stop his nutsack drooping beneath his hemline! :)

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  84. grumpy (270 comments) says:

    You only need to look at “Tarn” Billingsley’s own facebook page and those of her friends. Most have now been taken down but preserved for posterity by Whale.
    Indeed, a public service.

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  85. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ grumpy (234 comments) says:
    July 12th, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    So you are saying that this man was conned by left wing feminists to follow one of them home, break into her house and attempt to rape her – just so they could conduct a ‘beat up’ – and that our police, who investigated the issue, and decided there was a crime to answer to, were complacent with the left wing feminists, and what, I suppose the government employees that stuff up the negotiations to get the ‘complacent alleged rapist’ return, were also involved in the beat up??

    WOW!!!!

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  86. grumpy (270 comments) says:

    For those, like Judith and Mikenmild who still think the Billingsley story is real.
    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/07/greens-standard-involved-cynical-political-hit-ever/

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  87. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    So the Whale, JK’s shadow, is being his usual pathetic self, posting shit that gets him big money, and you all roll over and say ‘ more please’.

    Until blubber balls can explain how come the police investigation found an actual crime had been committed, and that there was something to answer to – and until he can explain how an entire government department was also of that opinion – he has NOTHING – but then he never usually does, he talks more shit than he breathes air.

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  88. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    ….”People use blogs to vent on”…..

    Not wrong Judith but they also serve to publicise true detail which politicians & journalists cover up because they don’t advance “the cause”. If screen shots have been kept (& Whale is an expert at this) then I would expect a different story to emerge.

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  89. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Billingsley always looked like the pretty little cat that hadn’t quite got the cream! :)

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  90. grumpy (270 comments) says:

    …and, Judith, the police did not charge him with attempted rape, you seem to have bought the left narrative.

    It seems that the Left thought a trial should not be allowed to happen, they were probably shit scared that he may have come back and the setup exposed.

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  91. grumpy (270 comments) says:

    John boy, there are some photos on Whale that show Billingsley as a triumph for the TV3 makeup department’ pun intended.

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  92. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    Griff, I think abortion should be a crime. The only exceptions I’m willing to entertain are rape, incest, and threat to the mother’s life. Other than that, Doctors who perform it (NOT the pregnant women let’s be clear) should be criminally liable.

    I don’t accept the “it’s not my body” argument because in this case it is not the women’s body in question, but the body of another human being who is defenseless and unable to speak for themselves.

    And of course, as a conservative I have a very old fashioned way of approaching the issue of pregnancy. If you don’t want to get pregnant, don’t have sex in the first place.

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  93. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Anyway one should never let a serious court case get in the way of a beat-up on old Machiavelli McCully! :)

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  94. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ grumpy (237 comments) says:
    July 12th, 2014 at 2:01 pm

    Whale hasn’t posted any proof at all. He’s posted a series of snippets from conversations that are open to interpretation. The police charged the man, he was charged assault with intent to commit rape, and burglary. The police do not charge on serious crimes without investigating. If there was no evidence of any crime being committed they would not have charged the man.

    You need to get over it – I have no doubt the left have made the most out of the government’s stuff up as they could – just as the right would have done if the roles were reversed – but there is a criminal investigation to answer to, and the man needs to appear in court to answer it – he won’t – his decision to leave the country indicates he knew they had evidence against him.

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  95. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Other Andy, incest no longer taboo according to an Aussie judge.?

    That’s where our social consensus will need to draw the line very firmly against including of course child sex.!

    Thank you for postting that bit yesterday about Hamas and human shields.A lot of lies and misinformation about this directed against Israel by the gullible far left.
    Pat Condell also notes how Hamas has made no effort to protect it’s people with bomb and air raid shelters .Hamas understand full well the propaganda value of their civilian deaths and injuries without regard to it’s cost.

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  96. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    grumpy (238 comments) says:
    July 12th, 2014 at 2:01 pm
    …and, Judith, the police did not charge him with attempted rape, you seem to have bought the left narrative.

    I’m afraid dear Grumpy, it is you who have been ‘bought’ – he was charged with assault with intent to rape – and burglary. And that does not come from the ‘left’, unless McCully was lying – which I don’t believe he was.

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  97. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska (10,475 comments) says:
    July 12th, 2014 at 2:00 pm

    I have no doubt that there have been many such conversations on the left – BUT the fact remains, the man was charged with crimes after a police investigation. That investigation found enough evidence to support the allegation that a crime had been committed by the alleged offender (Malaysian diplomat). The fact he was sufficiently worried that he left the country at his earliest convenience, also indicates there was evidence to support the charges.

    Whale seems to be saying that ‘it never happened’ = he wishes!

    Yes, I accept the left has encouraged the victim to make the most of the governments mismanagement – but I think you’re all pushing it up hill, if you claim Whale has evidence to prove the crime never happened. He’s playing you – giving you all selected snippets and using innuendo – like he always does – he never actually produces anything but open statements taken out of context.

    If Whale had anything the correct and responsible thing to do would be to lay a complaint with the Police stating that a ‘false complaint’ had been made by the victim. He hasn’t done that – because he has NOTHING. He’s now guilty of doing the same – its a beat up – which I guess makes a change from what he’s usually beating.

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  98. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Come on now Judith. All us hairy-legged men know that women never get raped unless they lead men on by dressing provocatively or saying “no” when they should say “yes”!

    Can’t believe what all the fuss is about here! :)

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  99. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (14,767 comments) says:
    July 12th, 2014 at 2:20 pm

    But how do you know this diplomat didn’t have ‘smooth legs’?

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  100. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Johnboy:

    For your viewing pleasure :)

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  101. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Being an oriental he probably did Judith but it would be racist to suggest that! :)

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  102. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (14,768 comments) says:
    July 12th, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    I am not even going to ask how you know how the legs of males from various nationalities feel – that’s simply information I do not need to know!! :P

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  103. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Thanks for that Nostradamus I’ll just have to pop off for a clean tissue to wipe my specs with! :)

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  104. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    You’re welcome, Johnboy.

    Judith seems to be adopting a hard-to-get-me strategy as part of her get-you-hard campaign.

    I figured I’d save you the trouble (since time is precious) and let you jump straight to fourth base! What will you do with the rest of your day though?

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  105. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    It’s well known that Asians are less hirsute than most other males Judith I thought a well-rounded woman like you would have known that? :)

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  106. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    Judith

    I have little trouble accepting that in May something occurred, that the police investigated it & found sufficient cause to lay charges. From that point it was always destined to become murky because the accused had diplomatic status. Since I’m sure you know what this involves there’s not much to be gained by rehashing what that means to the Police, MFAT & the government but their hands are tied by a diplomatic agreement signed in 1961.

    Ms Billingsley doesn’t present as a retard, therefore it’s not unreasonable to expect that she knew what was involved. Instead she runs off to Jan Logie & sets everything up to embarrass National in a way in which they couldn’t respond to.

    So far okay…..all’s fair in love war & politics but it’s also fair & proper that she gets to feel the heat when people question her motives & the politics behind the facade.

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  107. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Hard to believe that a chap as perceptive as McCully wasn’t camped outside the Malaysian High Commission before the crime happened while simultaneously camping outside Ms Billingsley’s pad nasska!

    Fuck these Nat Ministers have a lot to answer for! :)

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  108. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    “What will you do with the rest of your day though?”

    Why it’s Wainuiomata v The Real Catholics at Evans Bay Park at 3:00 of course Nostradamus! :)

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  109. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    The National Ministers must get a better quality of crystal ball JB…..their inability to predict attempted rapes is sub par for the wimmin’s movement expectations. :)

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  110. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Once they get Stephen Hawking to build them one they could appoint Judith as the Vestal Virgin to predict it’s visions nasska! :)

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  111. Fletch (6,495 comments) says:

    EAD, kowtow, Manolo !Fletch Tom Hunter, Ed Snack etc,etc , this is such good news.!.The US unemployment rate drops tp levels not seen since the 1990s tech boom,

    stephie –

    The 7.5% US unemployment rate, at its lowest level since 2008, seems to be telling a story of slow-but-steady recovery after the Great Recession and Financial Crisis. Unfortunately, the bulk of evidence suggests the “real” jobless rate is far higher. As the U-3 rate has fallen, so has the labor force participation rate, or LFPR. If the LFPR were at the same level as when the downturn began, the unemployment rate would be a stunning 11.3%.

    http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/05/is-the-real-us-unemployment-rate-11-3-or-7-5-a-new-goldman-sachs-study-offers-an-answer/

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  112. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Johnboy:

    It looks like someone – possibly D4J – is sticking pins into the Minus voodoo doll (see my 2:23pm and 2:28pm comments).

    The sad part about it is that person must think I actually give a fuck!

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  113. Longknives (4,884 comments) says:

    I apologise if my post this morning was rather ‘strong worded’ but until you have seen/experienced what a fabricated sexual violation complaint does to an innocent person you really can’t understand or even begin to comprehend the horror.
    mandk- The woman who lied and cried ‘rape’ was offered every kind of support and counselling under the planet from Police/Social Workers etc. The guy involved had his lawyer and a handful of friends who had the balls to stick by him.
    There was no apology from any of these organisations when the truth finally came out. Nor any compensation for the tens of thousands of dollars he spent fighting to clear his name.

    Stephieboy- I wont even dignify your trolling comment that my friend had something to hide with any response other than ultimately it didn’t even make it to trial.

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  114. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    I was contemplating suicide when Minus first had a go at me Nostradamus. I sat down and cleaned my shottie, checked out the expiry date on the double nought. Lovingly loaded the old Winchester for the last time with just one round then the wife yelled out and said “Johnboy…the pork chops are ready and the bottle store delivery driver is a knocking on the door”!

    I’ve never looked back since then! :)

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  115. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Longknives:

    It’s all good – you haven’t received any demerits.

    I’m not sure why Pete George thinks he has particular expertise on “rape culture”. His comment (“While many men have been momentarily miffed by accusations of guilt they can quickly move on to other things.”) was ill-advised. I don’t think it was a constructive contribution to the debate.

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  116. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    Nostradamus

    As the all time expert on KB research can you give us a link to D4J’s record meltdown that saw him get about a 100 demerits in less than 30 minutes……sometime early last year I think.

    It could shed a bit of light & afford some amusement for our newer contributors. :)

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  117. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Nasska:

    The thread is here.

    As I recently noted, when Dad4Justice said “My word this is my thread” … he wasn’t joking! He went from zero to 110 demerits in 22 minutes.

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  118. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    December 2011…..doesn’t time fly when you’re having fun? :)

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  119. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Fuck that’s wonderful Nostradamus. Can you look back to when Yvette and I both did French! :)

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  120. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Johnboy:

    Possibly not what you had in mind – and I apologise in advance if this causes you to have a negative reaction – but you apparently had a French threesome with Yvette and Elaycee :)

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  121. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    7:nil To Wainui…..death to the Papists! :)

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  122. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Your the MAN Nostradamus! :)

    Must go the grandkids have arrived and want to play on the computer! :)

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  123. Griff (8,197 comments) says:

    I think the minus syndrome displays the incredibly pathetic nature of the person responsible.
    The poor retarded loser lacks the correct body parts both brains and balls to actually become involved in constructive debate or any meaningful attempt at belittling those he /she/it opposes.
    The visualization of a fucked up drunken old sot sitting in a dark and dingy room wanking listlessly over the picture of a very stern nun in between bouts of maniacal down ticking those he dislikes on KB is probably extremely true to life.

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  124. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Griff:

    The visualization of a fucked up drunken old sot sitting in a dark and dingy room wanking listlessly over the picture of a very stern nun in between bouts of maniacal down ticking those he dislikes on KB is probably extremely true to life.

    That description is so good that it’s worthy of a literature prize!

    Any thoughts on who the description might apply to? :)

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  125. Griff (8,197 comments) says:

    I have wondered but have no conclusive evidence just conjecture
    its a sour faced old conservonutter.
    I have guessed at either kowtow or d4j in the past.
    Kowtow does wade in with ineffective pussy punches occasionally so is not as pathetically powerless as minus.
    The down ticks were happening before d4j rejoined Kb.

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  126. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Billingsley is obviously a Helen Kelly-type snake. Take a look at Whale, makes one think!

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  127. Colville (2,300 comments) says:

    Warning! you cannot unsee this image!

    http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1150/2932/original.jpg

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  128. goldnkiwi (1,541 comments) says:

    What is this nonsense about the Malaysian envoy leaving at the first available opportunity, wasn’t it a week? I am sure he could have got on an earlier flight if flight was the sole intention. He never surrendered his passport, that was to be on the 12th May I believe when there were discussions between officials and it was found that bail conditions did not apply.

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  129. mikenmild (11,752 comments) says:

    Still beating up on the alleged victim, igm?

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  130. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    mikenwimp: Who says it is a victim, maybe it was the perpetrator. Its background is not nice. Is it a bit close to your taxpayer-funded place of overpaid employment?

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  131. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “Still beating up on the alleged victim, igm?”

    Ah yes, Mikenmild’s version of reasonable and rational debate.

    “Have you stopped beating your wife yet?”

    Remember, as your own post says, it’s ALLEGED victim. And asking questions about the political manipulation of this, as well as whether or not it even happened, is perfectly reasonable.

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  132. mikenmild (11,752 comments) says:

    So calling her a ‘Helen Kelly type-snake’ is perfectly okay with you Shawn?

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  133. Manolo (14,070 comments) says:

    The odd couple of stephieboy and Ugly Truth will rejoice: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/07/poll-obama-approval-muslims-highest-108797.html

    President Barack Obama’s approval rating is higher among Muslims than any other religious group, a new poll says.

    According to a Gallup poll released Friday that tracked responses for the first six months of 2014, 72 percent of Muslims said they approve of the president, compared with just 20 percent who disapprove.

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  134. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Here we go again – first the Great Christchurch Buildings Trust (Christchurch Cathedral) and now the Hamilton East Community Trust (Euphrasie House):

    A landmark Hamilton East building earmarked for demolition by the Catholic Church has been awarded the city’s highest heritage status.

    Hamilton’s new district plan, released this week, lists Euphrasie House as a Category A heritage item, giving a timely boost to those fighting to save the 75-year-old mission house.

    The Hamilton East Community Trust will head to the Environment Court next month to fight plans by the Catholic Diocese to bulldoze the Clyde St landmark.

    The building belongs to the Justice Ministry while the land is owned by Waikato Tainui.

    City councillor Dave Macpherson said saving heritage buildings was a four-way partnership between the community, council, the Government and building owners.

    The Methodist congregation’s low-key approach to the demolition of the St John’s Methodist Church was an example of what not to do, Macpherson said.

    “Churches claim to be part of the community so where was the quid pro quo in a situation like this. In this day and age you’d think the church would realise it had a wider responsibility than just its own set of account books.”

    Just a thought: those associated with the Hamilton East Community Trust, instead of spending money on Environment Court proceedings, could always buy the land from Tainui and then have their say?

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  135. Manolo (14,070 comments) says:

    Talking about inequality: http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/nz-poverty-line-much-higher-than-us.html

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  136. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    mikenwimp: Why do PSA-indoctrinated trash always avoid both truth and fact?

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  137. grumpy (270 comments) says:

    Mikenmild, what’s wrong with Helen Kelly?

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  138. mikenmild (11,752 comments) says:

    I didn’t say there was anything wrong with Helen Kelly. igm seems to think that using her name is a pretty powerful insult.

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  139. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Johnboys oiling his shottie and checking out the single load again after todays Jubilee Cup results….Sob…! :)

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  140. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Fletch (5,949 comments) says:
    July 12th, 2014 at 3:02 pm

    All can be said about the American Enterprise Institute analysis is the old quote here,

    “There are lies, damned lies and statistics.”

    Mark Twain

    The institute hardly a paragon of impartiality and objectivity but I suppose the proof will be found amongst the job hunters and their experiences.
    Not AEI statistics .!

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  141. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Another academic study

    Reading online could be making us dumber, a University of Victoria study has found.

    Really?

    The study of offline and online reading behaviour found spending hours glued to a computer screen had a negative impact on cognition, concentration, comprehension, absorption and recall rates.

    And the evidence for this is…?

    Victoria’s School of Information Management’s Dr Val Hooper said people today almost expected to be interrupted when using their computers.

    “Many respondents said they had learnt to read faster and more selectively, which is positive, but also said they were more likely to remember material they had read offline. It was still common practice for many people to print out material they considered most important,” Dr Hooper said.

    Oh dear! So this was actually a lovey-dovey “how do you feel” self-assessment study…

    The research revealed readers were motivated by three main reasons – seeking information, reading for work or study, and for pleasure.

    Amazing! Can anyone think of any other reasons for reading?

    Still, on the Bright side (if you’ll excuse the pun), Dr Hooper has some good advice for Penny Not-So:

    “As educators I think it makes sense to look at getting messages across in ways in which readers expect to receive it now, rather than how it was given in the past. Long chunks of text aren’t exactly going to appeal to today’s students.”

    Yes, Penny, shorter is better!

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  142. mikenmild (11,752 comments) says:

    Seem like great results to me, Johnboy.

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  143. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “So calling her a ‘Helen Kelly type-snake’ is perfectly okay with you Shawn?”

    Do you know her personally? No. So how do you know what she is like?

    She may well be what igm says, she may not. But questioning her integrity is perfectly valid. You seem to not want any questions asked, or any digging about her, or anything at all.

    The fact is Mike, nobody other than her and the man in question knows what happened. Until we do, and given the obvious political partisanship she displays, and her willingness to politicize the issue and use it to attack National as a whole, then it is perfectly valid to ask questions about, and criticize what might be her motivations.

    But I suspect that is all just terrible inconvenient for a Labour supporter. Which would be fine if you could just dredge up enough integrity and honesty to admit that.

    Not holding my breath.

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  144. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Prick! :)

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  145. stephieboy (3,404 comments) says:

    Manolo (13,222

    Oh I see the drone attacks in the Yemen are a figment of our imaginations and the same assistance rendered against Boko Haram a flight of fancy.???

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  146. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    “Yes, Penny, shorter is better!”

    Thank goodness for that…I’ll never feel inadequate again when I flop out my 4 inches! :)

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  147. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “Mikenmild, what’s wrong with Helen Kelly?”

    Ah, where to begin……. :)

    She’s a unionist for a start, but most Kiwis know her as the Lefty who tried to kill off the NZ film industry because they had the audacity to hire people who did not want to join a union.

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  148. mikenmild (11,752 comments) says:

    ‘but most Kiwis know her as the Lefty who tried to kill off the NZ film industry’
    That old canard.

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  149. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    “Mikenmild, what’s wrong with Helen Kelly?”

    1. She’s not as intelligent as her dad?

    2. She’s not as pretty as her Mum?

    3. She’s slightly right of Lenin?

    4. She’s really just a prat? :)

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  150. Steve (North Shore) (4,589 comments) says:

    Johnboy @ 1.54,
    “In the interests of propriety Judith an elderly gentleman would of course wear a suitable garment to stop his nutsack drooping beneath his hemline! :)

    Crutchless knickers mate, if you’ve got it, may as well flaunt it

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  151. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    It’s far too dodgy shaving the sack Steve (NS).

    A man may slip and emasculate himself! :)

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  152. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    ….”A man may slip and emasculate himself!”….

    All may not be lost JB……falsettos may be making a comeback & then there’s always the option of harem management. :)

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  153. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Always thought that the left here in NZ closely follows what is ‘hot’ in the US.

    Is the Campus Rape Crisis Overblown?

    War on women.
    Rape culture.
    The use of shoddy statistics
    Changing – expanding definitions
    Special legislation.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/10/is-the-campus-rape-crisis-overblown.html

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  154. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11292213

    Tell me I am a silly fool if you like but does that fucking ugly bastard resemble a Turtle or not? :)

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  155. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    The shell’s missing! :)

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  156. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Good work nasska. I couldn’t quite put my finger on why he didn’t quite look like a complete prick! :)

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  157. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    Johnboy, although beaten by MSP the losing bonus point secures Wainui a place in the semi-final. If they win in the last round it would be a home semi-final.

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  158. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/glz4pyn7huwddcc/Turtle.jpg

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  159. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    My grief is deeper than mere statistics SPC. It involves gloating by milkey!

    That I struggle with! :)

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  160. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Johnboy:

    It’s far too dodgy shaving the sack Steve (NS).

    Have you considered asking Judith to give you a back, sack and crack “special”? :)

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  161. mikenmild (11,752 comments) says:

    Gloating, Johnboy? Not me.

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  162. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    If she popped me round the block in her V8 I may consider a complete shave! :)

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  163. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Amazing how a non-gloating post can convey ultimate gloating milkey! :)

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  164. mikenmild (11,752 comments) says:

    You’re reading too much into it.

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  165. big bruv (14,156 comments) says:

    Johnboy

    I can’t quite make out the footy scores on Twitter. Did your lot draw with the bloody Catholics?

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  166. big bruv (14,156 comments) says:

    I did manage to work out that the mighty Ories had a magnificent win though.

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  167. cricko (379 comments) says:

    Now here is a vitally important “study” from Victoria University.

    https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/24443777/internet-doesnt-make-us-smarter-study/

    Proving the adage that when you read, “A new study has revealed that……” everything that follows is
    sure to be unadulterated crap.

    And also, shock horror, Professor Val Hooper has revealed that it is still common practice for people to
    print out stuff they read on the internet. Yep it’s true, they are still doing it.

    Did someone pay this drong to come up with this FFS ?

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  168. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Hi Cricko – you may have missed my 4:53pm comment. But, yes, I agree with your sentiments.

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  169. cricko (379 comments) says:

    Sorry Nostradamus,

    I did miss your effort as I scrolled past all the comments about people shaving
    their scrotes, interesting as that subject may be.
    However it’s gratifying to know that great minds think alike.

    PS yours was a superior report regarding the pathetic “professor” Val Hooper.
    And on a reread did like your, Back sack and crack effort.

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  170. mikenmild (11,752 comments) says:

    Perhaps she get money from the Marsden Fund. Here are a couple of their grants:

    ‘Touchy-feely justice or veiled retribution? An ethnography of therapeutic jurisprudence in New Zealand problem-solving courts’
    Dr Thom, University of Auckland, $300,000

    ‘The Crown: Perspectives on a Contested Symbol and its Constitutional Significance in New Zealand and the Commonwealth’
    Prof Shore, University of Auckland, $604,348

    ‘“Time Slows Down Whenever You’re Around”: The Evolutionary Psychology of Timing and Perceived Attractiveness’
    Dr Arantes, University of Canterbury, $300,000

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  171. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    If any organisation in NZ has a surplus of money to throw at studies in bollocks such as those then truly we feast at the Horn of Cornucopia. :)

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  172. Longknives (4,884 comments) says:

    RIP Tommy- The last of The Ramones…

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  173. stigie (1,320 comments) says:

    Put the shottie away JB and stick to the Gordons so we can at least have you back here next week ole chap !~

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  174. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    “That old canard.”

    No, that old fact Mikey. Her very, very stupid actions placed the Kiwi film industry at real risk, and not for a remotely good reason, unless you agree that it is ok to deny non-union members a job.

    Peter Jackson rightly skewered her for knowing nothing about the industry.

    Some advice. You might want to try responding to posts with a little more than a single dismissive sentence. It suggests you can’t think up a valid argument.

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  175. Tauhei Notts (1,748 comments) says:

    I had to show my face at a Bogan funeral today.
    I felt like a fish out of water. I don’t ride a Harley.
    The undertaker and me were the only ones there with a tailored jacket on. The undertaker was the only person there wearing a tie.
    But the part that got me was that; on the wettest day in the past two years; just 20 days after the winter solstice; the number of blokes there wearing sunglasses was incredible.
    How do those Bogans get on around January?

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  176. Griff (8,197 comments) says:

    They wear them all the time some even sleep in shades so they get used to it .
    If you remove the glasses they look like pathetic half blind sewer rats blinking in the weak winter sun.

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  177. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    Bogans are born with their shades on Tauhei. It’s an evolutionary development. ;)

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  178. Tauhei Notts (1,748 comments) says:

    And also, ALL, but one, of the females there aged over 25 were obese.

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  179. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    Bogan (def)

    A fascinating beast. The majority of the species are hideously repugnant and unintelligent, and yet they manage to breed in ever-increasing numbers and populate an area known as the outer west. It is quite common to find five or six offspring in each family group, often with a different father for each new baby.
    Their habitat consists of a weatherboard or brick-veneer dwelling and is characterised by an early-model Holden or Ford in the driveway surrounded by a group of males discussing why the carby is stuffed and the results of last night’s footy (a primitive gladiator-like spectator sport enjoyed by most bogans).
    The female of the species, while smaller in stature, is far more loud and aggressive than the male. While the males tend to be very friendly and congregate with other males, the females spend most of their time in supermarkets and shopping malls, using a shrill high-pitched call to discipline their children and contact other females.
    Males and females rarely interact socially except during breeding season, which is otherwise known as Friday night. During this time, females are allowed to enter the male-dominated area known as “the pub” and display their impressive coloured plumage to a prospective mate.
    Herein lies an intersting phenomenon. Males will often fight over a particularly attractive female and she will mate with only one male, while some less attractive females have been known to have several partners simultaneously.

    Ahhhh. The wonders of nature.

    Attrib. to Chris Franklin, Eric Bana as “Poida” on Fast Forward

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  180. Jack5 (5,161 comments) says:

    Stephen Franks on the role of shame (and other things) in the justice system. Interesting reading!

    http://www.stephenfranks.co.nz/

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  181. cricko (379 comments) says:

    Here is the genius from Wellington University that came up with the earth shattering study that somehow, you tell me how, Yahoo news thought was worth reporting on as “news”

    Can you guess how Yahoo came across this brilliant gem of a “study” ?

    http://www.victoria.ac.nz/sim/about/staff/val-hooper

    Nostadamus has a perceptive critique @ 4.53 today on this blog.

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  182. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    igm (1,365 comments) says:
    July 12th, 2014 at 4:43 pm
    mikenwimp: Why do PSA-indoctrinated trash always avoid both truth and fact? ‘

    igm the new face of kiwiblog, leecher is the new buzz word, leecher trash this and that ,the words of a disturbed mind

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  183. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Thanks Cricko.

    Quoting from your link:

    Val’s research focuses on the strategic alignment between IS [Information Systems] and business, and the impact of that alignment on business performance. She is also exploring the impact of IS on productivity. Further research interests embrace “the dark side of IT”, which includes cybersecurity, online gambling, online auctions, the addictiveness of IT, and the development of online social networking behavioural norms.

    Val often employs a dyadic perspective in her research and is equally at home conducting either quantitative or qualitative research.

    I consider myself to be fairly literate, but WTF does a “dyadic perspective” mean?

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  184. Griff (8,197 comments) says:

    Didactic – Merriam-Webster Online
    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/didactic
    designed or intended to teach people something. —used to describe someone or something that tries to teach something (such as proper or moral behavior)

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  185. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Griff:

    “Dyadic” and “didactic” have different meanings.

    As far as I can tell, Dyadic has something to do with pairs, so I guess that means a dyadic perspective is analysing something from two perspectives.

    So to take one example:

    Measuring Dyadic Perspective-Taking: Two Scales for Assessing Perspective-Taking in Marriage and Similar Dyads

    This article reports on the development and preliminary assessment of two paper-and-pencil measures of dyadic perspective-taking. Dyadic perspective-taking is defined as the imaginative tendency to put oneself in the place of a partner. The Self Dyadic Perspective-Taking Scale (SDPT) assesses the dyadic perspective-taking of self. The Other Dyadic Perspective-Taking Scale (ODPT) evaluates the dyadic perspective-taking of the other. Three separate studies evaluated the reliability and validity of the two measures. Results indicated that both scales had what could be considered adequate validity and reliability. Shortcomings, uses for the scales, and suggestions for future research were discussed.

    Oh dear – this sort of stuff gives academia a bad name!

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  186. Griff (8,197 comments) says:

    That social shit aint science .
    Or not as I understand the term .
    I would view it more as a religion or branch of philosophy.
    Dyad (sociology) – as an adjective, describes the interaction between a pair of individuals. A dyad can be linked via general communication, romantic interest, family relation, interests, work, partners in crime, and so on.

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  187. cricko (379 comments) says:

    Nostradamus

    I sent Val an email referring her to this site (and your critique of her effort) so she is able to get
    some feedback from the man in the street on the puke she puts out.
    Have you ever seen such absolute shit on a CV ever.
    This puke may have worked for her in South Africa but it will not pass the bullshit smell test here.
    Maybe the drongs at Wellington Uni can be conned but normal people just laugh.

    How did she manage to get this crap reported as “news’ on Yahoo ?

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  188. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Griff:

    Wikipedia, for what it’s worth, defines “social science” as follows:

    Social science is an academic discipline concerned with society and the relationships among individuals within a society. It includes anthropology, economics, political science, psychology and sociology. In a wider sense, it may often include some fields in the humanities[1] such as archaeology, history, law, and linguistics.

    I agree that what might be called “pure science” falls into a very different category.

    Edit: I’ve been trying to post a link to the article. The abstract says:

    This study explored the impact of the Internet on our reading behaviour. Using an exploratory survey, it examined the online and offline reading behaviour of individuals, and determined the underlying patterns, the differences between online and offline reading, and the impacts of the online environment on individuals’ reading behaviour. The findings indicated that there were definite differences between people’s online and offline reading behaviours. In general, online reading has had a negative impact on people’s cognition. Concentration, comprehension, absorption and recall rates were all much lower while reading online than offline.

    The article is available for purchase ($10) for those who are interested. I’m going to spend my money on coffee instead.

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  189. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    What I find very disturbing is the possibility of people reading crap like that & not laughing. :)

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  190. cricko (379 comments) says:

    Longknives

    Very sad news.
    I was at this concert.

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  191. ShawnLH (5,756 comments) says:

    Definitions of what constitutes “real” or “pure” science are inherently subjective, and usually reflect an individuals personal world view rather than anything objective.

    The study itself seems to be reasonable, and is in line with other studies that have questioned the value of computers in schools.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/7220021/Computers-in-schools-could-do-more-harm-than-good.html

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  192. big bruv (14,156 comments) says:

    So Wainui draw with the Catholics and that is enough to send Johnboy off in a huff all evening?

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  193. big bruv (14,156 comments) says:

    It get’s worse!

    It appears that Wainui lost to the bloody Catholics. That is reason enough for Johnboy’s absence.

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  194. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Lurcher rhymes with Lecher, maybe they are related, or the same pathetic person.

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