General Debate 16 July 2014

July 16th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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256 Responses to “General Debate 16 July 2014”

  1. Dave Mann (1,218 comments) says:

    Good morning everybody. Have a good day all…. Cheers :-) !

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  2. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

    Another idiotic Herald editorial. Governments always appoint people to give them the answers they prefer.

    And that applies to every judicial or quasi judicial body, up to and including the Supreme Court.

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  3. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    Derryn Hinch is a prominent ex New Zealander who has an Official Derryn Hinch Website called Human Headline.

    He was recently in New Zealand where he talked about sexual offender name suppression. He blogged on this – Depressing Suppression.

    IT WAS IN THE incongruous Spanish confines of Auckland Grammar on a bleak New Zealand Sunday afternoon. We were there to debate whether this country — which I recently dubbed the ‘land of the long, white shroud’ because of excessive suppression orders – should adopt a public register for convicted sex offenders.

    He added a footnote:

    Footnote: Tomorrow, when I’m safely out of the country, I’ll deal with a suppression order against a famous Kiwi sportsman. He’s pleaded guilty to sex offences, had his name permanently suppressed, yet has the gall to comment on the conduct of other alleged offenders. He deserves to be named. He will be.

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  4. Scott Chris (6,068 comments) says:

    Careful Pete – you’re dealing with a thorny issue.

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  5. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

    Ohhhhh…

    Has the Whale this good morning put a big “bad” cat among the lesbian rape crisis pigeons (mob) …and Mesdames Billingsley and Logie in particular

    •••••

    Tania Billingsley and the Green and Rape Crisis fingerprints

    by Cameron Slater on July 16, 2014 at 8:00am

    The Green Party’s Jan Logie has denied any association with Tania Billingsley and only came into contact with the matter recently, due to the Malaysian fake rape incident.

    Observers of the story may have seen that Tania has strong links to Wellington Rape Crisis, but not because of the Malaysian event. Her association goes back some time before that.

    The woman that leads Wellington Rape Crisis is ‘the girl with the pink hair’ (this is like a movie script), Tabby Besley.

    fweet

    Turn out that Tabby and Tarn go way back. Waaaaay back. They already knew each other in Nelson, when Tabby attended Nayland College. Nayland College is one of Nelson’s way-out-there colleges. Once the school bell rings, it looks like the local youth prostitution convention breaks up. But although I digress, it does paint the picture.

    Tarn and Tabby knew each other at least since 2011, and even then, they were active participants in Queer / womans rights issues
    [pix]

    And this was neither casual nor dissociated from their advocacy. Here they are together in February 2013
    [pix]

    Ok, so that establishes that Tarn and Tabby are well established as people that know each other and have at least worked together on women’s issues for many years.

    How does this link into the Green Party? ……

    Two days earlier, at the Big Gay out: [pix]

    Now, critics will say we don’t have a photograph of Jan Logie and Tarn Billingsley, but what an amazing coincidence that all these three were together within the same 24 hours well over a year ago, at gay / women’s issues events.

    Also, Tabby isn’t just someone Tania has known for years, or indeed worked together with her on various public events pushing queer and women’s advocacy issues. Tabby is also deeply into rape crisis.

    jhj

    Now, dear readers, what are the odds of a Malasian diplomat deciding to follow Tania home from a bus stop, apparently at random? What are the odds of him picking a woman that is befriended with and herself involved in women’s issues going back many years? What are the odds of him randomly standing there not touching her, then, backing off and waiting for police to arrive out in the street? What are the odds of Green MP Jan Logie getting involved, erm, randomly? What are the odds of a situation that has NONE of the hallmarks of an attempted rape, being shopped by TV3 as attempted rape and the label “Rape culture” being used to intimidate and shut up critics like ourselves lest we look insensitive to (real!) rape victims?

    This whole thing smells. It did then, and it still does now.

    Here is the Whaleoil challenge: If Tania was so keen for name suppression to be dropped so she can use whatever happened as an excuse to go on an anti-rape campaign, and if Jan Logie saw a chance to shaft Murray McCully and John Key in the process, then at least do us a favour and sit down and write a detailed account of the following for public release:
    •How long have you known the Diplomat?
    •How did you meet?
    •How frequently have you met before the day he followed you home?
    •What was your relationship?
    •What was his perception of the relationship?
    •Did your relationship change recently?
    •What caused this to happen?
    •What occurred at the bus stop?
    •Did he actually manage to enter your home?
    •Did he touch you? At all?
    •Did he undress himself?
    •At what point did he undress?
    •Were any clothes left on? If so, which?
    •Where was he when he did this?
    •What caused him to get dressed again?
    •How much time passed between the undressing and the dressing
    •Who called the police?
    •At what point?
    •From him turning up at the home, to him walking to the street waiting for police, how much time passed
    •Please release a copy of the police complaint
    •Was there a restraining order in place before he turned up that day?
    •What caused that restraining order to be needed?

    …and those are just some of the questions I have. Answers would lead to others.

    Now, it should not need saying, but I know I have to: I abhor rape. I abhor domestic violence. I support the ideals and aims of organisations like Women’s Refuge and Rape Crisis.

    But.

    I do not subscribe to the notion New Zealand has a culture of rape. I also do not subscribe to being told to stop asking questions in this particular matter lest this show insensitivity to rape victims in general.

    I do not want to trivialise whatever really happened and how this has genuinely affected Tania.

    But.

    If Tania, Tabby and Jan Logie can use this event to push their agendas, then I reject their attempt at stopping people like myself placing the story under some scrutiny.

    If I’m wrong, fine. But the facts, as above, are the ones I had to scrape together from public sources. And that shows to me a prima facie case that Tarn and Tabby saw a chance to push their pet project in front of a national audience. And I also see that Jan Logie saw a chance to add a political dimension by using it to attack Murray McCully and (of all people…) John Key.

    The problem remains: We have one side of the story, we have lots of unanswered questions, and we have a potential scandal that is much more explosive than an MFaT official possibly mishandling a powderkeg of a diplomatic situation.

    I’m getting inundated with emails about this too. People are just not buying the official story.

    Are Billingsley and Besley just work colleagues ??? Are they flatmates ??? Are they more than friends ??? Is it possible that they have been lovers ??? …

    Shouldn’t the Police be investigating the fact that Tania Billingsley (Alleged Attempted Rape Victim), and Tabitha Besley (Wellington Rape Crisis Centre Annual Appeal Fundraising Manager) …. just so happened to be very close associates and friends for the past more than three years prior to that night in May 2014 ???

    If I was a Policeman, and I found out that a close personal relationship between an alleged attempted rape victim and a rape crisis centre worker had already existed for several years before an attempted rape allegation was made, I would think that it was far too much of a co-incidence, and I would embark upon some serious investigation into what the relationship between those two parties actually was … to rule out “A Suspicious Conflict of Interest by Association … Casting Doubt on the Authenticity of the Allegation” ….

    Personally, I stopped believing in co-inky-dinks years ago …

    I challenge Tania to make herself available to me for an interview.

    The public has heard the case for the prosecution.

    It deserves to hear the cross examination of the facts as they are presented.

    If the Media is to be the court where this plays out, let us at least have a chance to get the other side on record too. “

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  6. Nigel Kearney (986 comments) says:

    Re the Derryn Hinch site, where he says “it is illegal for this editorial to be accessed by New Zealand readers”, do any lawyers know if that is correct, or are the restrictions only on the person publishing the information? Also, is it illegal to post a link to the site?

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  7. James Stephenson (2,155 comments) says:

    Thanks for that link Pete. It’s worth reading and thinking about, that a victim can be opposed by her attacker in her attempt to get name suppression lifted and us taxpayers are footing his legal bill. WTF indeed.

    Mind you, if Derryn wants to help the Sensible Sentencing Trust, he could at least try to get their name right.

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  8. itstricky (1,801 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  9. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ flipper (3,485 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 8:25 am

    Sorry flipper but that is a load of rubbish.

    Firstly, the alleged victim cannot answer any of those questions giving details pertinent to the actual offence due to sub judice – which Slater knows, and I suspect which is why he asked them, so he can then ‘sell papers’ by writing another article on how she won’t answer his questions.

    The fact that she keeps in contact and has similar interests as a friend from school means what? Mr Key and his school buddy had things in common and obviously kept in touch – why is it alright for him to do that, but not someone else?

    The fact that the alleged offender ‘followed’ her home, should give Slater some hints – but he doesn’t seem smart enough to pick up on that – if the alleged offender had known her for a while, he’d know where she lived and not need to ‘follow’, and if he had to ‘follow’ and not travel with her, then clearly he wasn’t invited.

    Whaleoil is full of his own narcissistic blubber – who the hell does he think he is to DEMAND that someone else do anything – he’s a nobody from nowhere of no importance, to anyone but himself, and the few delusional souls that hang off his every word. I hope she gives him the finger – his bullying and blaming the victim is OTT – no matter how you look at it. I just REALLY hope that he is not doing this under instruction from his idol – because if this comes back to bite the government – as it will if the general public are left to judge it – then that can be NOTHING but bad news for Key.

    It beats me why you all can’t see that Key has deliberately avoided entering anything like this debate – for a very good reason – primarily because he’s not a stupid man – Slater on the other hand, is.

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  10. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    Someone should tell Georgina Beyer: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/07/15/thor-is-now-woman/

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  11. alex Masterley (1,510 comments) says:

    Nigel k @8.25
    As long as what you read, on the overseas website is not communicated or published in NZ there is nothing to stop you having a look.

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  12. tvb (4,366 comments) says:

    I think Hinch (in saying it is illegal to access his website) is trying to cover his tracks to try and prevent any court action in case he breaches a NZ suppression order. But he could prevent NZ accessed IP addresses from seeing his website I presume.

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  13. minus (178 comments) says:

    As you can see above – flipper 8:25 –
    Here is the Whaleoil challenge:  If Tania was so keen for name suppression to be dropped so she can use whatever happened as an excuse to go on an anti-rape campaign, and if Jan Logie saw a chance to shaft Murray McCully and John Key in the process, then at least do us a favour and sit down and write a detailed account of the following for public release:

    22 questions follow [the last two mention a restraining order, which could be interesting, if it exists]

    And here are two more questions –
    • Have the Greens used this issue and the supposed “the rape / violence culture” to try and nail McCully and John Key in Election year.?
    • What does that say of the Greens’ in respect to that supposed “the rape / violence culture” ?

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  14. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ itstricky (1,512 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 8:36 am

    I just love the implication that pink haired women deserved to be raped – what about old ladies with blue hair dyes, do they also deserve to be raped, or in this case, assaulted with the intention to rape? Just what colour haired woman is immune from the act?

    Whilst I understand what Flipper and Blubberous balls are saying, the fact remains, the police were called whilst this many was in the victims home – because he would not leave when asked to. Regardless of what took place before that point in time is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if they had been in a hot steamy love affair up until that point (which obviously they weren’t, because then he wouldn’t have had to ‘follow’ her). The fact remains that he attempted some sort of sexual move, which was rejected (as is her right) and was asked to leave and presumably wouldn’t go.

    Now how can he in any shape form or description be right, unless of course we are going back to that same old argument that a man (a married family man in this case), has the right to demand sex from female they know, whenever they want.

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  15. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

    itstricky….

    Of course Billingsley and her lesbian friends have rights.
    hey have the right to lawfully conduct all of their activities, repulsive though they may be to many.
    They have the right to tell the truth.
    They have the right to expect their legitimate complaints will be properly investigated and any real perpetrators subjected to judicial sanction.

    They do not have the right to make false or misleading complaints.
    They do not have the right to engage in entrapment.

    But, itstricky if you believe that Billingsley et al will escape unscathed from this imbroglio, then those UFOs flyting past your windows are the proverbial pigs.

    There is every reason to believe that Police have been looking very closely at Ms Billingsley, her associates and her nocturnal habits. If this matter ever goes to trial, I think we can safely say to her: “Good luck”.

    She (they) will need it!

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  16. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ minus (129 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 8:55 am

    By all means question just what political parties are using this event to gain political leverage – but as you should know – the nitty gritty details of the case cannot be discussed, due to the fact that they are still before the court.

    The alleged victim has not given any of the details – which clearly annoys the living shit out of Whaleoil, because he is left to speculate – but she cannot give them – so his challenge is a very well tuned empty one – that he knows cannot be filled.

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  17. Lance (2,635 comments) says:

    So Judith
    The same alleged victim that can’t answer questions is demanding answers from others.

    Hmmmm

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  18. James Stephenson (2,155 comments) says:

    @Manolo – let us know when the offended pagans start attacking the Marvel offices and calling for the comic artist to be beheaded.

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  19. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    For anyone to believe this is a set up – is incredible in my mind.

    Why would the alleged victim have set up the events, when whether it would become a public issue, depended solely on the actions of other parties.

    She had no way of knowing whether the diplomat would skip the country.
    She had no way of knowing whether the Malaysian government would send him back.
    She had no way of knowing that the government would stuff up the negotiations.
    She had no way of knowing whether the police would arrive in time, and she wouldn’t actually be raped.

    Therefore, the fact this became a political issue was dependent on the actions of people/government/country – all of which were out of her control.

    If a person might believe she set it up to bring the proposed ‘rape culture’ of NZ into the headlines, then she would have used a kiwi bloke – not a foreigner. She would not have applied and been given name suppression, because she would have wanted to use her experience for political gain immediately.

    To believe this conspiracy theory being mooted by Whaleoil, you’d have to believe that she was capable of manipulating our police force, our courts, some of our government officials, McCully, and the Malaysian government.

    How absolutely pathetic can you all be?

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  20. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Lance (2,409 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 9:00 am

    DOH Lance.

    She is demanding questions regarding the governments actions – that is NOT details of the crime. Can you see the difference? One is effected by sub-judice, the other isn’t.

    Also – who is Whaleoil to demand anything? Do you think you have the right to demand the alleged victim answer your questions?

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  21. calendar girl (1,216 comments) says:

    “….. the nitty gritty details of the case cannot be discussed, due to the fact that they are still before the court.”

    I wasn’t aware that charges had actually been laid in Court. Have I missed something?

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  22. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Billingsley and Logie are vile feminists, capable of stooping to low levels, in order to achieve their objective to discredit males. It will be very interesting to see what else comes out on this evil association in the near future . . . maybe Judith is part of this sick group!

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  23. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ calendar girl (1,169 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 9:11 am

    Yes, the accused appeared in Court, and was released on bail, but subsequently enacted his diplomatic rights, and fled the country. He was charged with burglary, and assault with intent to rape.

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  24. Lance (2,635 comments) says:

    Seriously Judith
    Can’t you see why anyone answering back has one hand tied behind their back?

    As I said earlier… what if the diplomat is found innocent?

    Then a whole lot of political capital will have been scored leading up to an election with no one caring after an election if things are cleared up.

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  25. EAD (1,002 comments) says:

    Anyone still think the big spending National Party are going to be balancing the books this year?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/dairy/10271879/Dairy-price-spirals-down-8-9-per-cent

    When you combine this hit to our biggest source of export earnings with their massive ramp up in spending over the past 2 years, promises to balance the books looks like another “smoke and mirrors” piece of b/s designed to fool the electorate.

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  26. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ igm (1,382 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 9:12 am

    You still can’t tell us how this ‘sick group’ managed to control what McCully, government employees, the Courts, the Police and the Malaysian government, did. Can you please explain how they managed to achieve that? Because without the actions taken by those people, there was nothing news worthy or of political gain, to be had.

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  27. flipper (3,991 comments) says:

    Judith….

    The alleged victim has already stepped on the plank by going to TV3 and Logie.

    She was told by Police that the Malaysia’s Government had declined to waive diplomatic immunity (Not that the diplomat invoked it. It does not work that way.). She stepped on the plank with that prior knowledge. She walked to the end……,

    She no longer owns a “right to silence” before trial.
    By going public with TV3 she chose the “Court Of Public Opinion.”
    The NZ Law Society has already noted that any trial would be open to challenge.
    The ex-diplomat’s QC and team will not need any encouragement.

    If this matter ever goes to trial it will be nasty. It will be Billingsley’s worst nightmare.
    She may find that the waters beneath the plank are full of ravenous Great Whites.

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  28. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Lance (2,411 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 9:18 am

    The only political capital that has been gained, will have come from the actions of other people, of which the alleged victim had no possible control over. Therefore, if it was a set up there was nothing political to be gained. The victim originally requested name suppression, and for a period of time didn’t speak out, or utter one word about the case. The only time that changed was when OTHER people made mistakes – allowing the person she claims attacked her to get away with it.

    Now, please explain, what was there for the alleged victim to gain, if the the alleged offender had staying in the country, been tried, and got off, because it never happened, or even if he’d been convicted, what would she have been able to gain politically from that? There are plenty of rape cases far more severe out there that can be used to support the claims of political parties, they don’t need to create them.

    The police investigated and decided their was something to answer to – in short, they found evidence that convinced them a crime had occurred.

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  29. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    flipper (3,487 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 9:23 am

    She has not discussed the details of the crime – she has only discussed the matters concerning the political aspects – that does not entitle anyone to threaten her to discuss what happened that night, as Whaleoil it doing.

    Of course she was annoyed, and decided to go public when her attacker appeared to have got away with it – just as people are currently doing over a famous New Zealander that appears to have got away lightly with his crime. Victims don’t like it when people are not punished for their wrong doing in a way they see fit.

    It sounds very much like you are threatening the alleged victim as well.

    You still have not answered my questions – if this didn’t happen, what did she have to gain out of it – because she had no way of controlling it – or even perceiving that all the various people/govts etc involved, would act in the manner they did.

    She has every right to silence about the details of that night and the offence. She has never breached that right on those details. Which is why you and others are challenging her to do that – because you don’t know.

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  30. calendar girl (1,216 comments) says:

    “Yes, the accused appeared in Court, and was released on bail …”

    Thanks for that, Judith.

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  31. minus (178 comments) says:

    Judith, some of your comments, like 9:07, show you are not reading what others are commenting on.
    It is not a question of the alleged victim have setting up the events, but having taken place, it is a question as to why the Greens are involved in using it to try and nail McCully and Key.

    Where it starts to become questionable is that the alleged rapist or assaulter is Malaysian and the victim presents the media with a two and half page essay on a supposed New Zealand rape culture.

    Like so many 9/11 terrorist being Saudi Arabian, that Bush attacks Iraq. TBTCOOWW

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  32. wreck1080 (3,885 comments) says:

    just wait for the trial!

    If there is no trial, then people can produce theories and investigate those.

    I just see the chances of a fair trial are being sunk by both the victim and blogs commenting daily about this.

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  33. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    minus (130 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 9:41 am

    it is a question as to why the Greens are involved in using it to try and nail McCully and Key.

    God lord, I’m surprised you even have to ask that question.

    It’s election year – just as Key and National use everything they can to nail the other parties, and seize on every available opportunity to do that – the other parties do exactly the same to them. Did you think it should only be a one way game?

    The fact remains, someone left the back door open, providing an opportunity – and so the Greens seized it. Just as National would have done if the situation was reversed.

    However, that does NOT excuse the implications that the offence never occurred – which is what riles me – and why I continue to ask, if it was a set up – as both flipper, whaleoil and others have said – then they need to also provide answers to how the alleged victim managed to set up everyone else to get it to a point where it became a political game aimed to win points over the government.

    It only became that – because the govt stuffed up – which is why they are doing an inquiry. For the proposed set up to be of any use – it depended on the government stuffing up – now how did the alleged victim achieve that, or even think she could achieve that – because without it, there was nothing political to gain.

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  34. EAD (1,002 comments) says:

    Whilst like me you may not like rap very much, nor agree with everything Hustle has to say, this video highlight the injustices and brutality of the Police State that has emerged in Obama’s America.

    Colour, creed and socio-economic background often make no difference once you’ve been targeted by such heavily militarised law enforcement agents.

    While this is a stain on Mr Hope & Change, don’t be under the illusion that voting for the other parties will solve things. It won’t, as right across the Western World, we have now gone back to a time where it is no longer “left vs. right”, but the Rulers vs. the Ruled. This cartoon below give a good visual of these dynamics at work:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-13/picturing-march-tyranny

    Whilst some of our Statist friend on KB are afraid of the light Zerohedge shines on Economic & Political matters, I wonder how they are going to slander the Telegraph which has concluded the same thing?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10769041/The-US-is-an-oligarchy-study-concludes.html

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  35. minus (178 comments) says:

    Just wait for the trial!
    You think there will be a trial?

    Why would the Malaysians now return their man when –
    • Labour would reject UN Declaration of Rights {Article 11] on court proof
    • The victim has gone public
    • the Greens are involved in that publicity for Election purposes
    • the Malaysians have laid the grounds of mental illness

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  36. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Regarding the ‘essay’, which arrived on the scene after the stuff up by government officials.

    When people experience a very deep and personal event like a sexual attack, they frequently try to depersonalise it by applying a bigger picture to it. It assists in empowering the victim and making them feel it was less about ‘them’ but rather there were wider issues involved. Its not an unusual practice – and one that many such victims become involved in.

    What is unusual is that she wrote it down. However I can sympathise with that. As an academic, I frequently write documents to materialise my thoughts, and find a way through the problem – or simply to attempt to justify my thesis. That essay (if written by her) was very well written, and therefore whoever wrote it, I would say, has some academic history. I am not sure if the alleged victim does or doesn’t, but I can associate with the desire to materialise her thought/argument, in such a way.

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  37. thedavincimode (6,719 comments) says:

    A great tweet from Alex Masterley (the real one):

    Germany’s winning margin over Brazil to be cut to 2-1 & surplus goals used to boost WC performances of Spain, Italy, Portugal & Greece.

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  38. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ minus (131 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 9:59 am

    The victim has not gone public about the details of the alleged offence, and therefore matters of sub-judice have not been breached. Attempts by Whaleoil and others to threaten the victim into making her talk about those aspects, I would suggest are attempts to try and prevent it ever going to trial – not that I believe the diplomat will return to New Zealand. IMO he would never have scarpered if he believed he was innocent and there was no evidence against him.

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  39. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    I believe EAD yesterday was trying to show to us Somalia as an exemplary example of Libertarianism in the making. ? Since 1991 apparently more successful than its neighbors.

    A different perspective is offered here where the stark facts of an abysmally failed state,

    http://www.businessinsider.com.au/somalia-is-the-most-failed-state-on-earth-2013-7?op=1#we-have-to-start-with-the-famine-the-un-reports-that-famine-in-somalia-which-officially-lasted-from-2010-2012-killed-260000-people-1

    Anarchy has somehow failed to lift local food production out put.

    Wonder why.?

    EAD ,when the editor of Zero hedge is marched off to a FEMA camp then I’ll start to take notice of his otherwise overblown and tedious bombastic polemic.

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  40. EAD (1,002 comments) says:

    Stephie you should read this piece from the Mises Institute http://mises.org/daily/5418/anarchy-in-somalia

    – Somalia is not a no government zone where people came to a philosophical conclusion that private parties do better than government. Rather, it is simply a failed government where the former Somali dictator was stealing about 90% of all the government revenues.

    – The Somali government fell, and no other government replaced it. The conflict has been caused by various Warlords trying to RE-ESTABLISH an all-powerful government, not a limited government (of course, THEY want to be the ones in control of that big government).

    – Now here is the kicker – since 1991, the people of Somalia have done BETTER by most measures than the people of the surrounding countries.

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  41. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    You can almost see the “caring and loving” whanau coming to the rescue. A bit late, though:
    http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8875230/12-year-old-appears-on-manslaughter-charge

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  42. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    EAD, done better by what measures precisely.?

    Kenya e.g experiencing famine currently.?

    A divided Sudan climbing out of long and bitter civil war.!

    From the Miser Institute .?

    LOL.!!

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  43. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    To cheer up stephieboy: http://www.businessinsider.com.au/cheney-obama-is-the-worst-president-of-my-lifetime-2014-7

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  44. OTGO (544 comments) says:

    “Clean up in aisle one. Clean up in aisle one”
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10271326/MP-hands-in-her-charge-card-after-Australia-trip

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  45. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    Seriously Judith. Wtf.

    Out of the first 38 comments, 12 are yours!

    31%

    Dime is already sick in bed.. Please don’t make me any more ill.

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  46. Andrei (2,570 comments) says:

    70 years later

    Twenty-eight UK veterans of Arctic convoys supplying the Eastern Front during WWII have finally been awarded Russian Ushakov medals for their courage. It took a while before their act of heroism could be officially marked with ‘foreign’ awards.

    Russia officially requested permission from the UK government more than two years ago in order to award British veterans for their bravery. The request was originally denied, as it fell under an ancient UK law of prohibiting Royal Navy mariners to receive foreign awards and military decorations.

    The Medal of Ushakov is a Russian state award first presented in 1944. Named in honor of 18th century Russian admiral Fyodor Ushakov, patron saint of the Russian Navy, the medal is awarded for courage and bravery displayed both in wartime and distinguished naval service during peacetime.

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  47. kowtow (8,326 comments) says:

    OTGO

    From your link on Claudette hauiti ,the trougher on taxpayer perks.

    “Hauiti fell foul of the rules in March by employing her wife, Nadine Hauiti-Mau, in her Auckland electorate office.”

    Two strikes.But I expect the media won’t make a meal of it because she’s a maori, a lesbian and ex labour.

    But how the hell did Notional select that?

    Oh that’s right,Notional are a “progressive ” party.

    Nothing to see here,move along please.

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  48. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Andrei
    I believe NZ veterans received this medal in the 1990s.

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  49. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    kowtow
    I don’t expect DPF to do a post on this case.

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  50. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    EAD,

    “Now here is the kicker – since 1991, the people of Somalia have done BETTER by most measures than the people of the surrounding countries.”

    Again the evidence of that actually happening and comparing to what countries precisely.?

    Sudan.???

    The Miser’s Institute explanation of the current famine raging in Somalia.?

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  51. SPC (5,595 comments) says:

    So Whaleoil with the help of flipper here has completely modernised the stereotype of the discredited rape complainant.

    No it is not a woman with a sexually active past who dresses provocatively and is asking for attention from/giving mixed signals to vulnerable and intoxicated young man who she leads to misadventure/being compromised under the law.

    It is a woman who prefers other women, is anti-male violence and has social and activist contacts with others like herself – whose evidence to police about the behaviour of heterosexual men is for an ulterior political motive.

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  52. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    there are little differences between Labour and Labour Lite troughers, but they share the same insatiable appetite for the baubles of office.

    That woman Hauiti has the right credentials to stand for either party, the twins of current NZ politics.

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  53. wreck1080 (3,885 comments) says:

    @minus ::

    So, because you think there will be no trial it is OK for to gossip about the case? You’d look a bit foolish if the trial does go ahead.

    Personally, I prefer to let the legal process run it’s course, then people can talk.

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  54. mandk (968 comments) says:

    Judith,
    You are contradicting yourself.
    At 9.52 you said that the govt stuffed up, and at 10.04 you said govt officials stuffed up.
    Which was it?
    I suspect the latter.
    The real shame is, though, is that the Greens decided to make political capital out of it, encouraging the woman to go public, and ensuring there would be no possibility of fair trial.

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  55. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    Manolo, come on GOP former VP Dick Cheney a paragon of balanced and reasoned comment re Obama..?

    And your Washington Times ,like its counterpart Fox News, another nonpartisan source of fair and balanced reasoned opinion, comment and analysis .??.

    Re Dick Cheney. Even Leftie Washington Post give him his due.,

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-dick-cheney/2011/09/08/

    Bet you would find this kind of thing in the WT and Fox news dealing with their opponents.

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  56. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Manolo, come on GOP former VP Dick Cheney a paragon of balanced and reasoned comment re Obama..?”

    Yes.

    “And your Washington Times ,like its counterpart Fox News, another nonpartisan source of fair and balanced reasoned opinion, comment and analysis .??.”

    Also yes, as much as any other news service. All news is biased to some degree.

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  57. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    Kowtow: Quite so..

    Hauiti’s excuses frankly are total bullshit…and it shows from the way her answers are all over the place…”Of course the trip was private…”… “ah well actually maybe it wasn’t because I met Maori in Australia who are on the electoral roll”…

    She also tries to shift at least some of the blame onto her EA’s (Parliaments version of PA’s…for some reason she seems to have two of them) which is outrageous…If the EA was asked if this trip was kosher and she or he didn’t know, they would have immediately called Parliamentary Services and asked…On the very rare occasions my EA didn’t know something, she would immediately start calling people until she could give me the definitive answer…usually within minutes.

    This sort of expense fiddling is normally the sort of thing lefties do…remember Phillida Bunkle and her two places of residence for different purposes…and He Who is Protected and the book of taxi chits…Tuku and his underpants…

    As others have said, perhaps this is what you get when selections are made to fill some unofficial quota rather than on merit…

    PG: Very rare I give you an uptick…as well as the main issue, this shows just how far the law is behind the technology in the internet age…What are they going to do, prosecute everyone who clicks on a link? (Incidentally I am not at all sure Hinch is right when he says clicking the link is illegal for New Zealanders….I have never heard of a suppression order which bans everyone in the country from clicking on a website link…)

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  58. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    Whale may not have a smoking gun, yet, but he has clearly raised some valid questions and provided evidence that suggests this whole affair, at the very least, looks suspicious. From the start when TB wen’t public with the usual suspects behind her I though this smelled of a rat, and the smell is only getting stronger.

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  59. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Stephie you should read this piece from the Mises Institute http://mises.org/daily/5418/anarchy-in-somalia

    It certainly is worth reading. It gave me the best comedy on KB since Ugly called a blog an international court! :)

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  60. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    Shawn, agreed but some are more biased than others e.g Fox News. etc ,

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/dana-milbank-embracing-misinformation-on?

    I would call the W P account of Dick Cheney very fair minded as I would expect the same about GWB or Obama.!

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  61. SPC (5,595 comments) says:

    Anti-gambling ad tipped Germany to win World Cup.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28318187

    Cheap and reliable off the shelf fighter jet makes the air show in the UK. Affordable to those who have their own work jet, otherwise for small countries and those without military alliance role pretensions.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28260781

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  62. doggone7 (777 comments) says:

    The Whale Oil call, “I challenge Tania to make herself available to me for an interview” would be laughable if it weren’t so pathetic and drama laden.

    I await that serious journalist in his series of gangs in New Zealand, to issue the invite to his local Mongrel Mob chapter to come in answer as they must (because it is in his perceived view of must be done through the journalist of the nation) why they won’t like the colour blue and are likely to bash anyone who wears it.

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  63. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Shawn, agreed but some are more biased than others e.g Fox News. etc ”

    Well, that’s debatable Stephie. The NY Times? MSNBC? Hollywood?

    Yeah, that last one’s not a News service, but check out the plot to the movie ‘White House Down’ and tell me that was not an advert for Obama and the Dems, and a virtual screed of hate speech towards the Right.

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  64. doggone7 (777 comments) says:

    And using “smoking gun” gun in the context is delusional. A smoking gun he could have in this case would pale in the pall of his other afflictions.

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  65. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    PEW: MSNBC’S BIAS FAR WORSE THAN FOX

    “This news is certainly no surprise to anyone on the right, but a new Pew study finds that MSNBC is far more biased than Fox News. The Pew study, Winning The Media Campaign 2012, tracked the political coverage that President Obama and GOP nominee Mitt Romney received between the conventions and the final days of the campaign. The study of the media landscape (including social media) shows that Obama got a bit more positive coverage than Mitt Romney, but that his positive coverage took a nosedive after his miserable performance at the first debate. But one of the more interesting aspects of the Pew study is the breakdown of bias from MSNBC and Fox News. This part of the study shows that MSNBC was far more biased against Romney than Fox was against Obama.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/11/02/Pew-MSNBC-s-Bias-Far-Worse-Than-Fox

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  66. James Stephenson (2,155 comments) says:

    Dime is already sick in bed..

    Do you have to talk about your sex life every day? :D

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  67. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    The Pew study was highly flawed using coders to subjectively assess the tone of each candidate as a measure of bias . Now this is not assessing bias nor in fact the truth e.g as that Obama was in fact running a more successful campaign that tapped into, amongst other things, the newer emerging and changing demographics of voters in the US .Thats the real reason why Obama won. Nothing to do with alleged bias or what not.!

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  68. edhunter (538 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/10272774/Maori-protocol-stalls-prison-farewell

    Why the fuck are we pandering to these Neanderthals? Dad’s in prison, son is stabbed & killed in a gang related incident & yet we bend over backwards to accommodate these pricks. And the only reason this makes news is because the local iwi should’ve been asked first before a dead body is brought into their region, fuck them too.
    This is just part of what is so wrong with our country & I don’t see it changing any time in the near future.

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  69. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    Stephie, the Pew study did not say anything about why Obama won, it just tracked the levels of bias between the two, and did so quite well.

    Seriously, you would almost be in Ugly territory if your claiming MSNBC is not as biased, if not more so than Fox.

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  70. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ mandk (812 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 10:54 am

    In essence, both stuffed up. I believe it was primarily the officials, however, McCully should have made sure of what had occurred before he commented. However, that is not a biggee, and as I have said all along, certainly NOT a sackable offence in my opinion.

    I actually commend the government, in particular Key for the stance he has taken on this issue. IT was a very astute move to have Paula Bennett speak up and provide a soft caring approach towards the alleged victim and the crime. This is one issue that Key does not need to be seen as ‘victim blaming’ on, and he knows it. I think he also knows that whilst it gives the left an opportunity to make something of the mess regarding the diplomat – that the public really are more concerned about this sort of crime happening too frequently and that the government is addressing the issue. Which they have done, and Key has promised more to be done.

    It is only the politically obsessed, that are seeing things that probably don’t exist within the crime investigation, but certainly exist within opposition parties, to take the opportunity to have a go at the government.

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  71. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ dime (9,322 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 10:20 am

    Dime dear, I realise that skiping over my comments might be a little more exercise than what you can cope with at the moment, but it would be less enduring that reading them all. Can I suggest if you don’t like what I write, that when you see my name as poster, you simply scroll down, ever so gently, so as not to give yourself RSI and forget you ever saw them.

    We wouldn’t want you to develop an obsession on top of what ever else is ailing you.

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  72. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    Shawn, am not saying the MSNBC is not biased . Its no more or no less than Fox as far as cable networks are concerned. The coders were asked to look for the” tone” of Obama and Romney A highly subjective way to look at the issue. The coders as the video showed were not asked to consider about the truth of what either candidate said or did.

    And that truth is that Obama ran a better and well organized campaign that reached out to the new emerging demographics of voters ( Hispanics, Asians , youth vote as well as Blacks ) that now, as the GOP now recognizes )really counts.!

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  73. Ross12 (1,413 comments) says:

    Interesting move by the Greens on R&D

    https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/24468773/greens-propose-1b-boost-for-r-d/

    I presume they are trying to get business on side but the comments by Norman just don’t gel — one product , one market etc. is crap. Most other exporters ( outside Fonterra) working their butts off to do business will be really annoyed by that.
    Question for Norman —where is the $1billion coming from ??

    Having said that I agree with idea that those given Govt. grants and later sell the company off shore should pay the grant back. Maybe it should apply to any sale , within a set time period.
    ( I’d like to see the Govt. take a shareholding –maybe non voting — in some companies so they get some of the upside from a sale.)

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  74. Fletch (6,296 comments) says:

    Shawn, am not saying the MSNBC is not biased . Its no more or no less than Fox as far as cable networks are concerned.

    The only difference is that FOX reporting is based on the truth, whereas MSNBC is not.

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  75. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘The only difference is that FOX reporting is based on the truth, whereas MSNBC is not’
    A great example of an unbiased statement.

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  76. thedavincimode (6,719 comments) says:

    … earth to Fletch … are you receiving?

    Over.

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  77. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    Fletch, 12 wild misconceptions held by Fox viewers and fans like you,

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lee-camp/12-wild-misconceptions-he_b_798938.html

    and Fox and Republican lies,

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/Americans-Against-Fox-News-and-Republican-Lies/10352319

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  78. Scott Chris (6,068 comments) says:

    DICK CHENEY: Obama Is ‘The Worst President Of My Lifetime’

    That’s a bit rich, coming from the worst Vice-President in history.

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  79. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Worse than Spiro Agnew?

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  80. gump (1,638 comments) says:

    @Nigel Kearney

    “Also, is it illegal to post a link to the site?”

    ——————–

    Posting a link to the site shouldn’t be a problem.

    Posting a direct link to the article that breaches the name suppression order would be a bad idea.

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  81. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    edhunter @ 12.21: Quite so..Dad’s in the Mob, son was a prospect, and got killed by the other group of Neanderthals…and the whole “system” has to suddenly make itself subject to and compliant with “Maori protocol”…

    What’s the going rate for koha for bringing a body onto another iwi’s rohe I wonder?

    Footnote: Dad must be a right bad bastard if they didn’t think it was safe to let him attend the Tangi while securely attached to two large and well trained screws…

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  82. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    From Andrew Johnson on Facebook

    This is Denmark and these very statistics used to apply to NZ, however we bought a political bill of goods some decades back that said by enriching the few the whole would benefit. While we were off chasing this fools errand countries like …Denmark stuck to egalitarian principles of providing equitably for the majority. Sad for us.

    Denmark has a diverse, mixed economy, but one that relies almost entirely on human resources, as there are few mineral resources available, except mature oil and gas wells in the North Sea. Cooperatives form a large part of some sectors, be it in housing, agriculture or retail. Foundations play a large role as owners of private sector companies. Denmark’s nominal GDP was estimated to be $333,238 million, the 32nd largest in the world. It has the world’s lowest level of income inequality, according to the World Bank Gini (%), and the world’s highest minimum wage, according to the IMF. As of June 2010 the unemployment rate is at 7.4%, which is below the EU average of 9.6%. As of 28 February 2014 Denmark is among the countries with the highest credit rating.

    https://www.facebook.com/rangic?ref=tn_tnmn#!/photo.php?fbid=859249210753806&set=a.309602365718496.87665.100000062064715&type=1&theater

    it’s this kind of evidence that we can know NZ suffers as victims of a purposed agenda against us.

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  83. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    Andrew Johnstone: Beneficiary fraud in NZ is peanuts. Tax evasion and white collar crime is estimated to cost the nation some several billion a year. Sorry Mark, your analysis is shallow and indicative of the half arsed attitudes that hold this country back

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  84. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    @DG: Well said!

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  85. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    Occult Message in Speech by Christine Lagarde of IMF

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYmViPTndxw

    This speech was given on January 14, 2014. She refers to the G7 as having something to do with it. On that date, there was no G7, it was the G8. It was not until March 24, 2014 that Russia was kicked out of the G8 thereby making it once again the G7. Another example that everything is planned out in advance by the NWO!

    This woman is dangerous, look what Europe has done, there are many un-elected heads of state, the people had no say so what so ever who leads their nation or what policies are forced upon them. All by design. Here is some interesting reading that may vanish at any time. http://watch.pair.com/protocols-of-zion.html#preface. If this does not make you set up & see what has already happen & what is next, nothing will.

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  86. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Ross12
    Don’t be fooled by the Greens R and D funding. It will all go to so called Green Tech. Subsidies for Windflow anyone?

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  87. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    Manolo:…but the really scary thing is that this person who is too dangerous to be allowed to attend his son’s tangi will eventually be let out…almost certainly unchanged from the person he is today…

    Ever notice how often when the Police are looking for someone they will say he is too dangerous to be approached? That person has almost invariably been released on parole, meaning that when they were released they were still dangerous…That is one of the many reasons three strikes was necessary…the bottom line is when it is in full effect it will result in guys like this being banged up for a very long time, perhaps for the whole of their life…

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  88. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I see wiki is away with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion now…

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  89. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘That person has almost invariably been released on parole, meaning that when they were released they were still dangerous’
    Are you suggesting that there be no parole? Doesn’t parole provide some incentive for reform and some basic measure of control over a released prisoner?

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  90. thedavincimode (6,719 comments) says:

    I’m sure that none of this Opotiki business would have happened if compulsory Te Reo had been introduced decades ago. Talk about your lost generations …

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  91. cha (3,946 comments) says:

    Yup, winning the debate.

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  92. edhunter (538 comments) says:

    While I agree with the principle of parole, it should be a privilege earned, not a right to lose.
    I imagine I would not be shocked to learn how few prisoners actually serve their full sentence.

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  93. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Shawn, am not saying the MSNBC is not biased . Its no more or no less than Fox as far as cable networks are concerned.”

    Fair enough Stephie. Good response. Too busy to say more than that for now. Might be back on later tonight, might not.

    “The only difference is that FOX reporting is based on the truth, whereas MSNBC is not.”

    Oh hell Fletch, even I’m not partisan enough the believe that is always the case.

    http://watch.pair.com/protocols-of-zion.html#preface.”

    Oh dear. Nazi propaganda??? From WB??? I’m shocked! ;)

    Have fun all.

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  94. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “I imagine I would not be shocked to learn how few prisoners actually serve their full sentence.”

    The ignorance of the ignorant.

    Now…..no matter if prisoners do serve full time they stll have to do probation in the community. If they break conditions they back inside. And very easy to break those conditions.

    The q is how much time do they have to do if they have fulfilled their time already.

    If a prisoner opts to do his full time he should have no conditons set on release. Simple as that and no questions about it.

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  95. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    ‘I see wiki is away with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion now…”

    I only ever get a couple or several red ticks so obviously there a lot of q’s in NZ minds about what is really going on.

    Not hard to fath om really concerning the skull duggery of our leaders that even Judith Collins isn’t trrying to trivialise.

    Very quiet our girl

    btw, I’m still a free man concerning Anne Tolley and my defamation concerning her fraudulant over looking of 700 counts of crime

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  96. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    Wiki: That might be because you are hiding behind a pseud…And you are more ignorant than Ed…I have been dealing recently with a life parolee, paroled 16 years after a murder…short story, he committed about four breaches before he was finally recalled…on the first three occasions he just spend the weekend in the cells…so unless you’d like to tell us your job – and I am sure you won’t – you should butt out…

    But before you go, do tell: would you be happy living with someone who had done the full stretch living in your street? Thought not…

    Edhunter: You have hit the nail on the head…almost no prisoners serve anything like their full sentence…and the fault is largely that of the Labour’s Sentencing Act rather than Judges…for a start, any sentence of two years or less is automatically cut in half…mandatory release at one half…for the rest, prisoners are eligible for parole at one third…to be fair, after Burton’s rampage in 2007 very few get it first time up…but most get it on second or third application, so at around half or two thirds of sentence…

    Your proposal is actually the same as Greg Newbold has suggested…rather that time off for good behaviour (which is a concept that no longer exists in law), he proposes time ON for bad behaviour…in other words lets say some scrote gets six years…they would get an automatic 25% discount (*cant be too hard on the poor lambs) and whether they got that discount would depend on their behaviour…for each infraction time on would be added, up to the full extent of the Judge given sentence

    Of course 3S has changed the position considerably…second strikers serve the full term of their Judge given sentence; third strikers get a mandatory sentence of the maximum sentence for their offence..unless it would be “manifestly unjust”…and that is a high test to meet…

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  97. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    Responding to Wiki caused me to run out of time..unable to edit…

    On third strike the villain gets the mandatory maximum for his offence…the “manifestly unjust” provision only applies to whether that maximum is served with or without parole….the Judge makes that decision…the first one will of course appeal, so the Court of Appeal will get to give some guidance on when it would be “manifestly unjust”…

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  98. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    David
    What is different about Newbold’s proposal? Presently a prisoner is eligible for parole after one third of the sentence, so time served after that point is effectively added on for bad behaviour, isn’t it?

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  99. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    Mikey: I suppose you could see it that way…except that Newbold is talking about an automatic discount of 25% and not 66% which is the position now…and they get their 2/3-1/2 discount not so much for good behaviour, but by ticking the various boxes of the (often bullshit) “courses” they have to do…or rather are encouraged to do..

    I’m sure a good leftie like you takes “the Listener”…have you read the article by the retired British cop who used to specialise in busting paedophile rings (if you haven’t yet, don’t have dinner before you do…)

    His message on paedos is the same as mine and SST’s: once a peado always a paedo…you are aware of course that Kia Marama has world beating stats on “rehabilitating” paedos?

    Starter for 10: How do you think they manage to have “success” rates which are well ahead of anywhere else in the world?

    Here’s a clue: if time is not part of the stat, success rates can be 100%

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  100. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I think it is quite likely that paedophilia is an unalterable orientation, but my understanding is that the Kia Marama and Te Piriti programmes are more about teaching the subjects to keep themselves and others safe.

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  101. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    In true la-la land: http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/wh-weve-substantially-improved-tranquility-global-community

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  102. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    Mikey: Nicely avoided my son…have you considered a career in politics?

    There is now considerable empirical evidence that paedophilia is hardwired into their brains…just as heterosexuality and homosexuality are in others’ brains (trying to make that point got me into a great deal of trouble back in the day…) Peter Jenkins, the SST Webmaster – who just happens to be gay – has a wealth of info on this subject. He used to be a regular commenter on here, but has faded away somewhat…don’t know why.

    Kia Marama makes its figures look so good by fudging – or if they can get away with it, omitting completely – how LONG their “graduates” remained offending free…To take this to silly levels, you could say 99% of X program’s graduates did not reoffend…for the first week/month after their release”. In fact whenever you see a “% of non reoffending” without a TIME component, alarm bells should ring…

    But what’s this bullshit about the paedos keeping THEMSELVES safe?? They are not ones at risk…their potential victims are…in fact that very phrase “at risk ” now has a whole new meaning… Bad behaving scrotes are now said to be “at risk youth”…at risk of spending a good part of their lives in jail maybe…but that part is never added…

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  103. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    igm (1,384 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 9:12 am
    Billingsley and Logie are vile feminists, capable of stooping to low levels, in order to achieve their objective to discredit males. It will be very interesting to see what else comes out on this evil association in the near future . . . maybe Judith is part of this sick group!

    igm your thoughts, do you think the x national MP and X all black found guilty but with permanent name suppression was temped by the female victim he sexually assaulted because she was a friend,pretty,and possibly a leecher green feminist or just because he was a pig?

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  104. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett (6,235 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 5:06 pm

    But what’s this bullshit about the paedos keeping THEMSELVES safe??

    It is not bullshit. Paedophiles who have accepted their propensity to offend with young children, and are aware of the danger they pose are taught a variety of coping strategies to ensure not only their victims, but also themselves stay safe.

    If they are a known paedophile they are in danger of being accused of crimes they may not have committed, because of their history. They are taught to keep a record, and to have verifiable evidence of their whereabouts at all times, to ensure they can be accountable, and therefore not be accused of something they did not do. This works both ways, because being constantly aware of their time and places assist them in controlling their condition, which is never cured, and with them for life. However, it can, with a great deal of effort, be controlled.

    It doesn’t do society any good to arrest the wrong person, and consequently leave another undetected pedophile in the community.

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  105. dirty harry (456 comments) says:

    All this news coverage over scum in Opotiki fighting/killing each other..who gives a flying F…let them go at it I say..fucktards.

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  106. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    The abolition of parole is the most stupid thing that any government could do.

    Having a person spend their entire sentence in prison, and then releasing them with no ability to supervise them is extremely foolhardy. As long as they are on parole they have to adhere to certain conditions, which can include where they live and who they associate with, to stay away from victims and so on.

    Once their sentence is ended (as long as they are not on lifetime parole) we have absolutely no way of making them live to certain conditions. Taking a person that has spent 15 years in prison, and putting them back into the community, without them being able to to monitored through supervision, and without being able to enforce certain conditions, is a recipe for disaster.

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  107. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    David G @ 5.06

    They who control the language control our perception. We dance to the tune of overeducated fools.

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  108. Longknives (4,691 comments) says:

    “What’s the going rate for koha for bringing a body onto another iwi’s rohe I wonder?”

    Exactly what I thought when this ridiculous story broke DG.
    Shall I claim for compensation for all the corpses that are lugged into the funeral home a block or so up the road?? Nobody consulted me and I’m pretty sure I own this property….
    What a laughable bunch of fraudsters our ‘Tangata Whenua’ are.. And sadly we are equally laughable for pandering to their comical demands for taxpayer cash to pay for all this…

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  109. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    Just to keep things balanced Stephie.

    CNN lies MSNBC lies

    http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2011/12/cnn-lies-msnbc-lies

    MSNBC controversies

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSNBC_controversies

    MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow Caught Lying About Koch Brothers; Refuses to Retract

    http://www.tpnn.com/2014/01/08/msnbcs-rachel-maddow-caught-lying-about-koch-brothers-refuses-to-retract/

    Slander and Lies: The Increasing Desperation of Democrats

    http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/04/21/slander-and-lies-increasing-desperation-democrats

    More media notice that Democrats have been lying about ObamaCare Medicaid enrollment

    http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/01/17/More-media-notice-that-Democrats-have-been-lying-about-ObamaCare-Medicaid-enrollment

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  110. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    Judith

    Why not make supervision an add on rather than a backdoor way to cut sentences?

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  111. Longknives (4,691 comments) says:

    “Having a person spend their entire sentence in prison, and then releasing them with no ability to supervise them is extremely foolhardy…”

    Judith you are embarrassing yourself again-Have a think about the definition of ‘Parole’…

    “parole
    pəˈrəʊl/Submit
    noun
    1.
    the temporary or permanent release of a prisoner BEFORE the expiry of a sentence, on the promise of good behaviour.”

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  112. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    Global currency reset.

    Many vids on You Tube discussing this.

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  113. Lucia Maria (2,317 comments) says:

    David Garrett,

    What’s your opinion of a publicly available sex offender register? (for paedos, mainly.) I think we need one, but given the current climate where every man and his dog is given name suppression, what are the chances it will ever happen?

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  114. dirty harry (456 comments) says:

    Life must be grand on Planet Judith..Judith..just dandy.

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  115. gump (1,638 comments) says:

    @Lucia Maria

    “What’s your opinion of a publicly available sex offender register? (”

    ———————-

    We already have such a register.

    It’s maintained by the NZRU and contains the names of all the current and former All Blacks.

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  116. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    Global currency reset.

    It appears that the GCR has been delayed until Jan 2015. Some intermediate steps may be implemented before hand by the IMF as the US continues to stall.

    The IMF and the G20 are laying the foundation for a new world currency called the SDR. The US $ will no longer be the reserve currency for the world. Certain structures are being put in place now ready for the January 2015 implementation

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  117. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    The golabl currency reset you talk of will mysteriously keep getting postponed, just like the imminent economic collapse so often prophesised by the wacko at zerohedge.

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  118. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    The thought police is easily offended: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8875612/viewers-offended-by-paul-henry-sex-joke

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  119. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    GCR – made of conspiracy theories
    Thursday, 27 February, 2014
    | AdamMontana

    0 Comments

    More From AdamMontana

    Adam talks politics.
    Adam talks about recent events in Iraq.
    Adam talks about a possible float.
    Adam says the current situation is pretty serious.
    More from AdamMontana »

    2-26-14 Adam Montana: [Q. With currencies in Turkey, Greece, EU in general, Argentina, South Africa losing their value and hyper inflation taking place, and now Ukraine going through Bank runs and civil unrest (brink of war...China economy showing signs of collapse. Talk has been discussed of a Global Reset on all currencies. I assume this would mean "all" currencies . What view would these factors have on your thinking the IQD would be involved at the same occurrence...or would the IQD be independent of the imploding countries?]

    A. Whenever I hear the term “global currency reset” I wince… half the stuff you will read on it is…conspiracy stuff, 25% of it is simply misinformed regurgitated confusion, and the other 25% is a mix of fruits and berries and maybe a little accurate information. With that said…every country will always have a value unique to their political stability, assets, etc. Regardless of when or how or where any other country “resets” or “revalues” their currency, Iraq is not China, Ukraine, or any other country. Iraq’s situation depends on Iraq’s actions.

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  120. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    Link re above,

    http://theiraqidinar.com/chats-posts/gcr-made-of-conspiracy-theories-242027

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  121. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    How did he manage to do it? Dynamo correctly predicts outcome of the 2014 World Cup!

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  122. Lucia Maria (2,317 comments) says:

    gump,

    Ouch. Surely not. Or are you referring to the recent outing of a certain person by some one who resides in Australia?

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  123. EAD (1,002 comments) says:

    @ Wiki

    The great currency and death of the American dollar and remonetisation of gold is now becoming so obvious even the sheeple should be able to see what is happening. It will literally be the biggest economic event in history given how reliant the world is on the USD (which since Bretton Woods was seen as being as “good as gold”) and how inter-connected world finance is. To paraphrase Warren Buffet, we will only see who was swimming naked when the tide goes out. We will see how real all this “wealth” in stocks, pensions, bonds and inflated property really was.

    The problem is, so few people know what money is as it has essentially been banned from discussion by our MSM and education system so only the curious mind can find out the history and nature of money.

    None of the radical truths which would be necessary to begin to understand how and why The March to Tyranny via fiat money has occurred, have any hope in hell of being presented to the general public, much less being voted for. None of the most important issues are on the public radar or public sonar. None of the established “choices” between Tweedledee National vs Tweedledum Labour ever talk about anything that matters, in any ways that put the actually important issues into proper perspective, because the established systems already have everything sufficient sewed up by the social facts that the overwhelming vast majority of people are already incompetent political idiots, that want to stay that way.

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  124. dirty harry (456 comments) says:

    Go Paul Henry you good thing…stick it right up the namby pamby handwringers who only speak for themselves.
    Just living must be offensive.

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  125. David Garrett (7,112 comments) says:

    Nasska: That of course is the way to go..combined perhaps with Newbold’s idea, which makes sense…so here’s a policy…

    1. You get an automatic discount of 25% off the Judge given sentence.

    2. You get time ON – so a partial reduction of the discount – for every disciplinary breach while in jail (how much to be decided by a Judge)

    3. When you get out – whether that be with the full 25% of discount or less, because of misbehaviour in jail – you are on parole for the same 25% of time, i.e. the same period as the original discount on your sentence.

    4. Any substantive breach of that parole – i.e. something more than being late for an appointment with the Parole Officer – and you go straight back to jail and serve the remaining portion of the sentence. Automatic…no need to trouble the Courts.

    Something like this works very well in California…Parolees are subject to up to five years of what is called “hard parole”, i.e if they are two minutes late for an appointment they go back to jail…if they are not where they are supposed to be at any given time they go straight back to jail (for example if they are not at home at 9 pm when they are supposed to be, even if its five minutes late) After that, they are subject to a period of parole more like what we have…

    The result? Violent crime is 60% less than it was in 1994 when “three strikes” and “hard parole” was introduced…but of course that’s just a coincidence, or it’s because they don’t have leaded petrol any more…

    Lucia: Personally, I think paedos are what one American executioner called “Gods mistakes” (and I am not religious)…I don’t actually think they have a right to go on living…even Milky acknowledges that they are incurable…they will always want to molest children for their sick pleasure…so yes, an open sex offender register…Yes, there will be vigilante action…too bad….maybe if you are a paedo you should off yourself anyway (No I have not been drinking, and yes, I am quite serious)

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  126. Chuck Bird (4,848 comments) says:

    Interest discussion about the sexual predator who Rodney Hide refereed to in the Herald on Sunday. He is not named but if you have an IQ higher than than room temperature on the old scale you can work it out.

    http://www.theconservative.co.nz/?q=node/840#comment-5736

    There must be a way to get rid of lazy, incompetent and corrupt judges.

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  127. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    It was a crap question for Henry to ask, very disrespectful of a guest. It would have been deserving if he’d been asked if he’d had a wank with himself or was just a wanker, but no one is likely to lower themselves to his standard.

    But Whale Oil gets the prat prize today for the going way over the line with his post on Tania Billingsley, that was disgraceful speculation and accusation, especially knowing she can’t talk about the case as it’s sub judice.

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  128. duggledog (1,528 comments) says:

    But David, far be it from me to pipe up here, but isn’t the act of reducing / amending / fiddling about with sentencing & parole purely semantics when, at the end of the day, imprisonment is just not really a disincentive for some in our society?

    For me – absolutely, I would not want to be in any NZ prison, having been in a couple and seen what they are like, plus, I have so much on the outside to lose BUT I have met young guys who actually couldn’t care less whether they do a lag or not – many of their mates are there, it’s time out in comfortable surroundings, it’s not something that fills them with dread.

    Many PLU (well, people like me) who did not come up as desperately hard like so many of these young guys (& girls too), simply can’t grasp that. The whole ‘loss of freedom’ thing that would put the shits up most people I’d say is just laughed at by most prisoners doing 2 – 3.

    I do wonder if prisons were truly awful, squalid, puritan, tough, bread & water & breaking rocks types of places, whether that would have an impact. God knows if we sent our prisoners to China for their lag they would not want to break any more rules in this country!

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  129. Manolo (13,590 comments) says:

    P.G. has confirmed he is part of the easily-offended brigade, and even more if the subject has sexual connotations.
    A role model for the New Age Southern Man……he is not!

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  130. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    duggledog

    ….” imprisonment is just not really a disincentive for some in our society?”…..

    Maybe not but when they’re inside they’re not offending.

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  131. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    duggledog
    I fear that making prisons harsher would not matter one whit to those likely to offend.

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  132. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    nasska (10,522 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 5:51 pm
    Judith

    Why not make supervision an add on rather than a backdoor way to cut sentences?

    But supervision is still a sentence?

    What we need to do is make the sentences lengthy enough that they include a decent amount of ‘punishment’ (imprisonment) but that they then include a period of time where we still have some degree of control over the offender, once they are living in the community. Call it supervision, or parole, its really just semantics – but to kick a person out of prison without having the legal ability to monitor them (which you can’t do if they are not on a sentence) is stupidity.

    Maybe the people on here think its fine to have a newly released ex-prisoner living next door to them, that has no restrictions on them, but personally I find it a risky situation. These people have been out of the community for lengthy periods of time, they are probably at their most dangerous and stressed, immediately after release – the very last thing that should be considered is having them ‘free’ to do as they please.

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  133. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    Manolo has confirmed he doesn’t understand simple things again. I didn’t say I was offended (and I wasn’t).

    If Henry can’t treat guests on his show with respect then he doesn’t deserve respect, nor a show.

    And Slater continues his Jeckyl and Hyde media career. He’s broken new ground and done very well in some ways but he can’t help resorting to trash. On this latest brain fart he’s a hypocrite as well. He wants to build a credible media alternative but he’s shitting in that nest.

    And with his associations he risks trashing National’s chances in the election – no better than what Mallard’s doing for Labour. Manolo may be happy with that but it won’t help his Colin’s chances.

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  134. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    Judith

    ….”But supervision is still a sentence? “….

    But not a very onerous one, at least the way they are administered in NZ.

    What do you think of David G’s concept of “hard parole”?

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  135. Steve (North Shore) (4,547 comments) says:

    The big girls blouses are offended today.
    Harden the fuck up you wimps.

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  136. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    EAD (518 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 6:29 pm

    More codswallop about the federal Reserve.!

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  137. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    Link here,

    http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/Federal_Reserve.html

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  138. Longknives (4,691 comments) says:

    “especially knowing she can’t talk about the case as it’s sub judice.”

    Umm Pete I know Dunedin is a dumpy old backwater- But have you been living in a cave?? Tania Billingsley is spouting off about the case left,right and centre to the media with her list of demands/resignations etc

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  139. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    A general response to the economic “the End is Nigh” videos above.

    A sensible libertarian critique of the Austrian School.

    Why I Am Not an Austrian Economist: by Bryan Caplan.

    http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/bcaplan/whyaust.htm

    Myths and Facts About the Gold Standard: No monetary system can absolve a nation of its fiscal sins.

    “Let’s start by clearing up some common misconceptions. Congressman Ron Paul’s attraction to gold, and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke’s biggest criticism, is that a gold standard implies an end to monetary policy and the Federal Reserve. It does not.”

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303918204577444270864399342

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  140. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    ““especially knowing she can’t talk about the case as it’s sub judice.”

    That would be the case she herself has been talking about and loudly making it into a political issue Pete?

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  141. dime (9,869 comments) says:

    FFS the shitty kiwi media is a couple of days behind but both the herald and stuff have caught up with the sydney herald about thorpe.

    the old “i dont care” is not good enough. we are meant to praise thorpe blah blah

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11294333

    eventually all blokes will have to line up for a shot in the face by thorpe to show just how proud we are.

    youre now a super citizen thorpe. enjoy.

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  142. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska (10,524 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 7:06 pm

    I don’t know anything about his concept of hard parole, so can’t comment. I don’t read many of his posts.

    Parole is not the time to be applying anything ‘hard’ IMO. You have a serious offender released into the community, you seriously do not want to be putting them under undue pressure, when they have access to other people.

    Sure, treat them mean, if you must, when they are locked away and innocent people cannot be hurt, but you aren’t achieving anything by doing that when they are in the community. Once they have served their term on imprisonment, we have to accept they have received their punishment, and accept that the best we can do is find a way to integrate them into the community in a manner that is going to ensure they do not harm anyone else, and that they don’t return to their old ways.

    Treat them like an asshole – and that is what you’re going to get – and I don’t want to be living next door to one of them!

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  143. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Lucia

    How the hell can you ask for a public register of paedophiles yet still be such a staunch supporter of the Catholic Church given that your own Pope is of the opinion that there are over 1000 paedophilic Priests?

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  144. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/714w03dwa6pw96f/FatherTim_fs.jpg

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  145. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Longknives (4,341 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 7:16 pm

    Okay, if that is the case, then you can answer these questions.

    1. What room was she in when the alleged offender assaulted her?
    2. What part of her body did he touch?
    3. What did the alleged offender say?
    4. How did the alleged offender enter the house?
    5. What time did the assault take place?
    6. Who called the police?
    7. At what time were the police called?
    8. What was the alleged alleged victim wearing?
    9. What was the alleged offender wearing?
    10. Had the alleged offender been drinking?
    11. Had the alleged victim been drinking?
    12. Did the alleged offender know the alleged victim prior to that date?
    and so on….

    If she’s been talking about the alleged offence, you will know the answer to some of those questions.

    The fact is, she hasn’t been talking about the actual offence, itself, but only about the issues that have resulted after the offence. Therefore, she has not breached sub-judice.

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  146. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “How the hell can you ask for a public register of paedophiles yet still be such a staunch supporter of the Catholic Church given that your own Pope is of the opinion that there are over 1000 paedophilic Priests?”

    BB, that question makes no sense. Why should Lucia be opposed to a register just because pedophiles can be found in the RC, as well as every other institution in society, like the BBC for example?

    And to his credit, the current Pope is tackling the issue.

    Also, at the risk of bringing down the wrath of the Liberal-PC brigade, a great deal of the RC’s problem arose because they allowed homosexual men with a predilection for young teen boys to become priests.

    That is an issue aimed squarely at the heart of Liberalism as well, which refuses to acknowledge how widespread that predilection is in the gay male community.

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  147. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    Longknives, Shawn – as far as I know she has only commented on the mishandling of the extradition and associated politics, fair enough to criticise her for that.

    But I haven’t heard her addressing anything about the alleged offences.

    Edit – as per Judith’s comment.

    Whale Oil is being a huge hypocrite. He initially criticised her for jeopardising the chance of having a fair trial. For example Trial by media, the Police aren’t pleased

    I truly can not see how Muhammad Rizalman bin Ismail can get an unbiased trial in New Zealand. Although, to be honest, the alleged victim, backed by certain media are overplaying their hand so carelessly, the tide may even turn against them.

    And now he piles into it.

    And also today he posted The left HATE free speech.
    I posted a comment in the weekend on Whale Oil which was obviously not the sort of speech that fitted with his agenda, he deleted it withing five minutes.

    He wants to launch some great new media initiative. He might get somewhere with it but he could do much more if he didn’t keep shitting in his own nest.

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  148. smttc (742 comments) says:

    Looks like Roy Morgan says Nats can govern alone.

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  149. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    ….”That is an issue aimed squarely at the heart of Liberalism as well, which refuses to acknowledge how widespread that predilection is in the gay male community.”….

    Quite right Shawn. If they’d hired an equal number of Conservative homosexual men with a predilection for young teen boys things could have been different.

    They would probably been paedos with a penchant for BDSM. :)

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  150. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Shawn

    I had developed a bit more respect for you over the last couple of week, leaving aside your ridiculous notions on things superstitious I was starting to think that you were a bit of a good bastard. However, your latest comment might see me having to reconsider my opinion.

    “Also, at the risk of bringing down the wrath of the Liberal-PC brigade, a great deal of the RC’s problem arose because they allowed homosexual men with a predilection for young teen boys to become priests.”

    That comment Shawn is laughably stupid, it is totally incorrect and frankly, it is an outright lie. A lie that you are well aware of. Your attempt to divert blame is another in the long line of excuses trotted out in defence of the filthy Catholic church and their on going attempts to cover up the systemic abuse their priests have inflicted upon their “flock”.

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  151. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    Actually I’ve just found out that on The left HATE free speech I got this message when I tried to speak:

    We are unable to post your comment because you have been blocked by Whale Oil Beef Hooked.

    That’s no better than Martyn Bradbury and highly bloody hypocritical.

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  152. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    BB,

    “That comment Shawn is laughably stupid, it is totally incorrect and frankly, it is an outright lie. A lie that you are well aware of.”

    I never state anything I don’t believe, especially on a topic this serious.

    Links Between Homosexuality and Pedophilia

    http://rethinkingtheology.com/2012/10/22/links-between-homosexuality-and-pedophilia/

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  153. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    “filthy Catholic church”

    You should deal with that UBF bb. Your over -reaction, loss of rationality and reasonableness are obvious symptoms of something that is seriously not right with you.

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  154. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    Roy Morgan:

    National 51% (up 3%)
    Labour Party 23.5% (down 4.5%)
    Greens are 15% (up 3%)
    New Zealand First 6% (up 0.5%)
    Maori Party 1% (down 0.5%)
    Act NZ (0.5%, down 0.5%)
    United Future 0.5% (up 0.5%).
    Internet-Mana Party alliance 1.5% (down 1%)
    Conservative Party of NZ 1% (unchanged)
    Independent/ Others is 0% (down 0.5%).

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  155. smttc (742 comments) says:

    This is Roy Morgan folks. Game. Set and Match.

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  156. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    ….”Conservative Party of NZ 1% (unchanged)”…..

    Don’t panic Colin! Steady as she goes. :)

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  157. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @nasska (10,527 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 7:56 pm

    Have you signed up with Colin yet Nasska? We’ve got a two hundred year old kilt here, it might be just the thing to wear to Conservative team meetings, although it could be a little too modern for their thinking.

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  158. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    Might be a bit raunchy & a tad see through for the Conservonutters Judith.

    Probably takes a flash of a chastity belt & a hair shirt to get into party HQ. :)

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  159. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Today’s New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll shows a strong gain in support for National (52.5%, up 7%) now at their highest since before the last New Zealand Election and well ahead of a potential Labour/Greens alliance (38%, down 6%) – almost matching their performance at the 2011 New Zealand Election at which the two parties polled a combined 38.5%.”

    http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/5620-new-zealand-roy-morgan-voting-intention-201406050202

    It looks like the trend is continuing. I expected the polls to narrow somewhat with Labour’s education policy announcements, and they still might, but at this rate National may well win the election outright with a full majority.

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  160. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Pete George (22,591 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 7:43 pm

    That’s because he doesn’t want the little bubble he lives in to burst. If he doesn’t have to read the comments of people that disagree with him, he can pretend that everybody likes him.

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  161. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    The last time I saw any NZ politicians wearing kilts they were dancing around a maypole and went on to form the Green Party. :)

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  162. OneTrack (3,027 comments) says:

    Thanks Pete – Labour and Green just need to swap another 4.5% and the Greens will be the official opposition. Go Cunners.

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  163. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Shawn

    You are going to need to do far better than supply a link to a Christian blog as “proof” of your assertion.

    I know you are uncomfortable with homosexuality, I actually don’t think that is unusual or anything to be ashamed of. There are many of us who don’t like the idea of homosexual practices yet we manage to push that aside and see it as a matter of human rights.
    What you cannot do, and, I would hope that others here will also not allow you, is to tell blatant lies in defence of your church and your religion.

    The filthy Catholic church created their own problem by insisting that their priests and nuns take a totally unnatural vow of celibacy. They ask young men and women to go against every fibre in their body, to deny themselves of the very urge that resulted in them being on this earth. When you demand that young men and young ladies abstain from sex it is no wonder that many of them end up taking advantage of the only humans under their direct control.

    The result of this Shaun is that heterosexual men and women end up abusing children, some of this abuse is sexual and (as in the case of thousands and thousands of Nuns) emotional abuse. This abuse is the direct result of the vow of celibacy.

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  164. Don the Kiwi (1,709 comments) says:

    “This is Big Bigot Bruv bringing you – “Catholic Watch” – the latest on the filthy Catholic Church. It was reported by the Pope today that there are 1,000 Catholic priests who have sexually abused children.”

    Wow. there are about 500,000 secular priests in the Catholic Church, and a further approx. 350,000 priests in religious orders throughout the world..

    So that means 1,000 abusive preists from 850,000 – that’s less than 0.002% of priests are abusers in the Catholic Church.

    See if that percentage applies to school teachers, medical profession, actors, homos – you name it. You’ll probably find a higher percentage in your own family BB. :-)

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  165. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Big Bruv
    When are you going to post those emails from d4j? I’ve got popcorn waiting.
    Or should we be calling you Big Bluff?

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  166. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “You are going to need to do far better than supply a link to a Christian blog as “proof” of your assertion.”

    The article was by James R. Aist, a Professor Emeritus at Cornell University, whose professional training and experience is in peer-reviewed, scientific publications in the area of biological research.

    Yes, he’s also a Christian (though not a Roman Catholic note), but sorry, that does not automatically make him wrong, and the article in question cited numerous studies from both sides of the debate.

    “This abuse is the direct result of the vow of celibacy.”

    Can you provide any evidence of that beyond personal opinion?

    I actually don’t agree with the vow of celibacy on priests, and I agree that it’s asking for trouble of one sort or another. But it’s not realistic to assume that it was the primary cause of men who admitted being gay and who targeted post-pubescent males.

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  167. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    ….” that’s less than 0.002% of priests are abusers in the Catholic Church. “….

    You’d probably get a little sweaty if you found out that Brother John the 500th was to be your new housemaster at boarding school. :)

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  168. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska (10,529 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 8:21 pm

    Awww, you never know, I have a feeling that ‘he who doth protest too much’ might actually enjoy having Brother John the 500th as a special friend.

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  169. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “So that means 1,000 abusive preists from 850,000 – that’s less than 0.002% of priests are abusers in the Catholic Church.

    See if that percentage applies to school teachers, medical profession, actors, homos – you name it. You’ll probably find a higher percentage in your own family BB.”

    Exactly. The rate of pedophilia in the RC is no higher than any other part of society, and possibly lower given those numbers.

    But people with an axe to grind regarding the RC do not let that inconvenient fact get in the way. For some people, when it comes to the RC, reason goes out the door.

    The cover ups were appalling, but so were the cover ups in secular institutions like the BBC.

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  170. Harriet (4,857 comments) says:

    “……The filthy Catholic church created their own problem by insisting that their priests and nuns take a totally unnatural vow of celibacy. They ask young men and women to go against every fibre in their body, to deny themselves of the very urge that resulted in them being on this earth. When you demand that young men and young ladies abstain from sex it is no wonder that many of them end up taking advantage of the only humans under their direct control.

    The result of this Shaun is that heterosexual men and women end up abusing children, some of this abuse is sexual and (as in the case of thousands and thousands of Nuns) emotional abuse. This abuse is the direct result of the vow of celibacy….”

    What a fucken load of shit Bigot.

    Only 1% of Priests in the US were guilty of sex crimes. So how do you count for the other 99% not doing it?

    Go and tell the feminists your great idea —– that men should have sex with women whenever they have a sexual urge —— so they don’t molest children. Idiot.

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  171. EAD (1,002 comments) says:

    The Roy Morgan Poll is a sad day for all those who believe in liberty & individual responsibility over State Power.

    National 51% (up 3%)
    Labour Party 23.5% (down 4.5%)
    Greens are 15% (up 3%)

    Together the 3 headed hydra have 89.5% of the public believing they are the worthy of their votes at the general election.

    Try as I might, but I can’t seem to slip a fag paper between these parties when it comes to welfarism, destructive high marginal tax rates from WFF, Political-correctness, borrow and spend politics, centralisation of power, State nannying and interference, social engineering, Maorification and separatism, vested interests and monopolies, dilution of our national culture through rapid mass immigration and enforced “multi-culturalism”.

    The choice is between bad and worse when you pick between this lot.

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  172. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    I went to a protestant boarding school Judith. The conditions were severe & the punishment harsh.

    Much the same as the Catholic one a bit down the road except that they got sex. :)

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  173. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Don the Denier

    Thanks for that, clearly my figures were wrong. Given the number of Priests in the world the number of paedophilic Priests (based on the Popes own figures) is much higher than one thousand.

    I do think it is a bit strange, well sick actually, of you to keep defending an organisation that has systematically abused children for decades.
    While the act of sexually abusing children is bad enough (and you point out other organisations who have a less than prefect record in this area as well) the thing that makes the Catholic church stand out as evil is the way that they condoned this activity and went out of their way to cover up the horrendous crimes committed by their Priests and Nuns.

    As for your comment about “Catholic Watch”, while the idea has some merit I fear that there are not enough hours in the day, nor, days in the week for me to really cover the on going atrocities perpetuated in the name of the filthy Catholic Church.

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  174. Harriet (4,857 comments) says:

    “…..See if that percentage applies to school teachers, medical profession, actors, homos – you name it. You’ll probably find a higher percentage in your own family BB.”……”

    Everytime you here of the mass international arrests of internet child porn watchers – there is always a teacher. Sometimes a police officer.

    But I’ve never heard of a Priest being arrested.

    Nearly all of the child sex crimes by Priests that you here about relate to matters at least 20yrs old.

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  175. Don the Kiwi (1,709 comments) says:

    All on Red.

    That website for the American Muscle cars for sale in the US that my son goes to:

    http://www.carsonline.com

    or http://www.hemmings.com

    check them out.

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  176. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    “Big Bruv
    When are you going to post those emails from d4j? I’ve got popcorn waiting.
    Or should we be calling you Big Bluff?”

    I bet a $1000 the lying bigot blouse can’t because another UBF is me. The shit he writes about Catholics and our National rugby team points to a very disturbed malicious liar.

    Come ON bigot blouse post the “ALLEGED EMAILS” you cowardly lying gutter snake.

    What will your tic club think when they all know you tell large lies you sad creep.

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  177. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    Has Media Ignored Sex Abuse In Secular Schools?

    “John Karr isn’t a priest. He’s a teacher. Most teachers are dedicated, hard-working people who wouldn’t dream of hurting a child. The same is true of priests. Any institution that has allowed children to be harmed by predators deserves to be taken to task for it. No institution should get a pass. And no profession should get a pass. Not preachers, not priests — not even teachers. Especially not teachers. And yet …

    Consider the statistics: In accordance with a requirement of President Bush’s No Child Left Behind Act, in 2002 the Department of Education carried out a study of sexual abuse in the school system. Hofstra University researcher Charol Shakeshaft looked into the problem, and the first thing that came to her mind when Education Week reported on the study were the daily headlines about the Catholic Church.

    “[T]hink the Catholic Church has a problem?” she said. “The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.”

    So, in order to better protect children, did media outlets start hounding the worse menace of the school systems, with headlines about a “Nationwide Teacher Molestation Cover-up” and by asking “Are Ed Schools Producing Pedophiles?”

    No, they didn’t. That treatment was reserved for the Catholic Church, while the greater problem in the schools was ignored altogether.”

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/has-media-ignored-sex-abuse-in-school/

    Filthy secular schools!

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  178. stephieboy (2,801 comments) says:

    Harriet, actually I’ve some sympathy for the august institution that is the Catholic church that has enriched our lives and civilization in terms of things like music, art, literature and architecture.
    A visit to Rome, Milan , Florence etc makes this patently obvious. I think your right the problem is among a small minority of priests but it would be alleviated if like i the Eastern and Russian Orthodox Churches Parish priests could marry.
    Thats the nub of it in my view and where the answers lie
    Shallow and superficial atheist philosophies can’t e.g offer anything remotely like this,

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  179. MT_Tinman (3,137 comments) says:

    re Roy Morgan:.

    How sad that 16.5% of those polled state they will vote for unrepentant communism.

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  180. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Shawn

    You posed some not unreasonable questions of me. All of which I am happy to answer. However before I do so you really do need to stop telling lies.

    Nearly all paedophilic behaviour is carried out by heterosexual men, I know don’t like that idea but it is the truth.

    Harriet

    If you want to debate the issue with me then fine, I am more than happy to slaughter you as well. However, please, don’t attribute things to me that I did not say.

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  181. Don the Kiwi (1,709 comments) says:

    Whatever bruv.

    Excite yourself in your obsession. You need to get out more, look around and smell the roses.

    Neither I, nor any other Catholic denies that this abuse occurred, and I am as pissed off about it as every Catholic – and right thinking person – in the world, should be. But making continued accusations, many of which are false, are doing you nor anyone any favours.
    Your knowledge of the Church teaching on celibacy is flawed, if not completely wrong – men who join the celibate priesthood do so willingly – there is no compulsion – it is a choice they make. Besides, there are married priests in parts of the Catholic Church but your exhaustive research would not have told you that.

    And since when was a man getting married any guarantee that they would therefore be preserved from being homosexual or a pedophile? You need to update your education.

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  182. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    “I am more than happy to slaughter you as well.”

    Hey tough boy blouse post the emails, don’t let your tic club down, otherwise forever be known a malicious liar and STFU.

    Just watch the cowardly creepy bb avoid my request to produce evidence. Emails please bb. $1000 on offer. Haha what a snake.

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  183. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    I have been told I’ve been banned from Whale Oil for using “bad language” and “foul language. I said ‘man crap’. “Not a free speech thing, but upholding standards”. Very ironic, especially after today’s efforts there.

    And I suspect they didn’t approve of an alternate message. That’s sad.

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  184. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Harriet

    “But I’ve never heard of a Priest being arrested.”

    I have always found that the eyes open technique works best when looking for something Harriet.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-112721/Accused-paedophile-priest-arrested-US.html

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  185. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    “I have been told I’ve been banned from Whale Oil for using “bad language” and “foul language.”

    Hands up all those who give a fuck.

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  186. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska (10,530 comments) says:
    July 16th, 2014 at 8:28 pm

    I only went to a protestant boarding school for one term. They wanted me to leave because I kept sneaking out at night trying to have sex. I guess I would have been safer at the Catholic School, no need to sneak around in the dark – although being a girl, I guess there wasn’t as many options.

    The public school was much more accommodating – they provided both the boys and the bike sheds.

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  187. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Don the Denier

    ” But making continued accusations, many of which are false, are doing you nor anyone any favours.”

    Name the false accusations and I will gladly withdraw them.

    “men who join the celibate priesthood do so willingly – there is no compulsion – it is a choice they make”

    So Don, if they do not take the vow of celibacy can they still be Priests? If not then your assertion is laughable, clearly a Priest must take the vow to be a Priest, that is the very nature of compulsion.

    “And since when was a man getting married any guarantee that they would therefore be preserved from being homosexual or a pedophile? ”

    Show me where I said that it was Don?

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  188. Harriet (4,857 comments) says:

    “…..I do think it is a bit strange, well sick actually, of you to keep defending an organisation that has systematically abused children for decades….”

    You mean the education profession? Their rates of offending are currently higher than that of the Churches.

    I do think it is a bit strange, well sick actually, of you to keep avoiding discussing an organisation that has systematically abused children for decades – and is currently the largest offending organisation!!!!

    You don’t really give a fuck about the welfare of children do you Bruv?

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  189. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    Can you post the emails please bb.

    Your tic club awaits on evidence what will DG and the Tinman think when you are exposed as nothing more than a hateful pathological liar.

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  190. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    When Whale Oil is as paranoid about message control as lprent and Martyn Bradbury it isn’t a good outlook for online political debate in New Zealand.

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  191. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Thanks Don
    Bookmarked :-)

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  192. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    BB,

    “. However before I do so you really do need to stop telling lies.”

    The problem BB is that I don’t think I am. I’m happy to be proven wrong, but I have read a great deal about this from a wide variety of sources, religious and secular.

    “Nearly all paedophilic behaviour is carried out by heterosexual men, I know don’t like that idea but it is the truth.

    That may or may not be true. The problem I can see is that heterosexual men vastly outnumber gay men, so that alone would explain the difference. A better indicator would be to look at the comparative rates as a proportion of each group separately.

    One thing I would admit is that the term pedophilia in the first article I posted is unhelpful, because the problem for some gay men is not pedophilia but ephebophilia, which is an attraction to post pubescent young teens.

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  193. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    “However before I do so you really do need to stop telling lies.”

    Shawn I am sure you would like to see the alleged emails sent by me to bigot blouse, or is he the BIGGEST LIAR ON KIWIBLOG?

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  194. All_on_Red (1,581 comments) says:

    Pete
    I think it’s more about not having bad language so advertisers aren’t uncomfortable about being on the site. I don’t think he’s ever been concerned about contrary views. Let’s face it, he’s not afraid of a robust debate.
    You are a total link whore though….

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  195. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    Harriet,

    I might agree with much of what you say on the actual issue, but lets try to keep it about the issue. Personal attacks on BB don’t progress the debate in a helpful way, and the issue is too serious to turn into a personal slanging match.

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  196. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    You realise that you have joined Baity in that elite club known as “Whaleoil Persona non Gratis” PG. :)

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  197. Harriet (4,857 comments) says:

    “……Harriet

    “But I’ve never heard of a Priest being arrested.”

    I have always found that the eyes open technique works best when looking for something Harriet…..”

    Yeah true Bigot.

    So re-read it – and you will see I was talking about internet porn – not sex offending in general.

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  198. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Harriet

    You are clearly an emotional female. It is a pity that as you bash out your posts in a fit of anger (very much like another individual who frequents this blog) you leave aside little things like that truth.

    Now, take a deep breath and lets chat about this.

    You know full well that I am talking about the Catholic church as the organisation who has systematically abused kids for generations. I do not deny that there are other organisations that have had a high rate of child abuse.

    The difference Harriet is (and one that you, Don and others choose to ignore) that these other organisations did not attempt to cover it up, or move the abusers to other parts of their organisation when their crimes had been uncovered.

    While the crime of child abuse should be enough to see the Catholic church hang its head in eternal shame I actually believe that the bigger crime (one authorised and orchestrated by those inside the Vatican) is the cover up and the act of assisting these criminals to evade justice.

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  199. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Harriet

    So watching or storing images of children being sexually abused (probably by other priests) is OK in your book?

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  200. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Shawn I am sure you would like to see the alleged emails sent by me to bigot blouse, or is he the BIGGEST LIAR ON KIWIBLOG?”

    D4J that issue is between you and BB. Frankly I have no idea what it’s about or how it started, and I really don’t care.

    Just because I’m debating with BB does not mean I have any desire to engage in a gang up on him, let alone one which is getting personal and nasty.

    People who claim to be Christians should know better than that.

    In fact, because it is getting personal and nasty I’m going to bow out of this particular debate. I have said my bit anyway.

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  201. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    Emails please big bluff. I just love cornering a rat.

    Shawn as a Christian I despise followers of satan. I suggest you learn real fast that a truth warrior is always confronted by evil. bigot blouse is nothing more than a pathological liar with serious mental health issues. How can you debate with someone so disturbed is beyond my comprehension.

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  202. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    ShawnLH

    Don’t feel that you need to defend me old chap. As soon as she starts being abusive I know I have won. Her anger is not really directed at me anyway, I suspect it is directed within given that she knows what I am saying is right and she is angry at herself for being duped by the church for so long.

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  203. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    I think it’s more about not having bad language so advertisers aren’t uncomfortable about being on the site.

    You’ve got to be joking after what Slater posted there today.

    I don’t think he’s ever been concerned about contrary views.

    It was Pete who banned me. I don’t think he’s been honest about it.

    nasska – a problem is, like on The Daily Blog, you don’t know who else has been banned, it’s done on the quiet. There’s no way of knowing how open or controlled discussion is. Whale Oil is becoming just like the MSM comments sections and blogs they criticise. Sure it’s there call and I don’t care about not being able to comment there – they said if I grovel they may review but stuff that – but if they want to build an alternative to MSM they have to differentiate, not be the same control freaks.

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  204. SGA (998 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 8:06 pm

    The last time I saw any NZ politicians wearing kilts they were dancing around a maypole and went on to form the Green Party. :)

    Careful Shawn. Our next Head of State is partial to a bit of kilt wearing. He’s an Anglican too. :-)

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  205. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    What did you actually try to post at Whale Oil Pete? I may be wrong, but I doubt he would ban someone merely for having a contrary view.

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  206. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Our next Head of State is partial to a bit of kilt wearing. He’s an Anglican too.”

    Well, a kilt is slightly more covering than what some of my ancestors used to wear! :)

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  207. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    ….” she is angry at herself for being duped by the church for so long.”…..

    It was finding out that the rule about masturbation being a mortal sin was a load of bollocks that really did it.

    The decades of self denial have hit home. :)

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  208. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Shawn as a Christian I despise followers of satan.”

    Love your enemies, do good to those that hate you, turn the other cheek.

    And at some level we all have our dark sides. Nobody is innocent, and nobody can point fingers at other individuals.

    The only “truth warrior” is God D4J, you and I are just sinners.

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  209. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    Shawn – I posted exactly the same as this comment here:
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/07/general_debate_12_july_2014.html#comment-1358550

    Ironically Pete @WO claims they “speak uncomfortable truth” but seem to have been uncomfortable with an alternate ‘truth’.

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  210. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    ….”Well, a kilt is slightly more covering than what some of my ancestors used to wear!”…..

    Nought bar a wig & a codpiece were “de rigueur” in many good bordelloes of days gone by Shawn. :)

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  211. Liam Hehir (123 comments) says:

    … I don’t care about not being able to comment there …

    You’ll have to forgive me for some scepticism here.

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  212. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    “Love your enemies, do good to those that hate you, turn the other cheek.”

    There is nothing UN Christian about wanting to expose a malicious liar like bb. You keep defending the lying freak if you want. Keep on the dark side if you want, but I will not as I like the light of truth. I got no time for lies. I got no time for slander and false testimony. Truth warriors are everywhere if you look hard enough.

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  213. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Nought bar a wig & a codpiece were “de rigueur” in many good bordelloes of days gone by Shawn.”

    Mention of the codpiece always reminds of the first Blackadder series. :)

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  214. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    Why Liam? I’ve never commented much there, and especially after the new standards they are setting I wouldn’t want to be associated with them anyway. I thought today’s post on Billingsley was disgraceful and highly hypocritical.

    Poor for a blog trying to establish a great ‘new media’ and not helpful for National either.

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  215. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “There is nothing UN Christian about wanting to expose a malicious liar like bb. You keep defending the lying freak.”

    D4J, we are all lairs, we are all freaks, we all sin. None are innocent.

    I think you should spend more time reading the Gospels and less time parading your supposed righteousness in public, or you may find yourself amongst the goats instead of the sheep.

    “Not all who call me Lord will enter the Kingdom.”

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  216. SGA (998 comments) says:

    Don the Kiwi at 8:39 pm

    Your knowledge of the Church teaching on celibacy is flawed, if not completely wrong – men who join the celibate priesthood do so willingly – there is no compulsion – it is a choice they make.

    I have no data, only an anecdote, so take this with a grain of salt. For a friend of mine, the priesthood initially seemed a good idea because he wasn’t attracted to women, and celibacy seemed a solution to his “problem” (at least in the devout catholic environment he was raised in). He wisely left the seminary after a couple of years. It’s made me wonder if there may have been something of a self-selection bias in those who join the priesthood. As I say, grain of salt etc., etc.

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  217. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    “as a Christian I despise followers of satan”

    Oh the irony!

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  218. Liam Hehir (123 comments) says:

    Just trying to offer some (genuinely) friendly advice.

    If you’re not bothered about being banned then maybe you should stop complaining about it here, which you’ve been doing for more than an hour.

    You’ve got your own, well-established platform. Put your objections to the WOBH post up there – where nobody can hold you back.

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  219. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    Your opinion Shawn. My “supposed righteousness” is well earned boy. Don’t try to lecture me boy your defending a malicious liar.

    “Oh the irony!”
    Post the emails bigot blouse just ask your mate satan.I give you a $1000 when you post them.

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  220. SGA (998 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 9:07 pm

    Well, a kilt is slightly more covering than what some of my ancestors used to wear! :)

    A kilt – luxury. My ancestors used to dream of a kilt – paint themselves blue, they would, and roam up and down the vales with their privates hanging out.

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  221. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Shawn

    This will no doubt amuse you but I am really quite enjoying your sermon to D4J.

    Do keep it up. :)

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  222. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “My “supposed righteousness” is well earned boy.”

    You can’t earn righteousness D4J. The only righteousness we have is Christs, and that is an unearned and free gift we did not nor do not deserve.

    The only one who is righteous by nature is God, the rest of us are sinners.

    There are some serious flaws in your understanding of the Gospel.

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  223. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    SGA

    I think you will find that they had no need to paint themselves blue. As one who spent many years in Scotland, and, is married to a Scottish lady I can assure you that the natural colour of a Scot is blue. Indeed, the buggers have to go out in the sun for a week just to turn white.

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  224. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “My ancestors used to dream of a kilt – paint themselves blue, they would, and roam up and down the vales with their privates hanging out.”

    Picts SGA?

    Wonderful imagery by the way! :)

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  225. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    “There are some serious flaws in your understanding of the Gospel.”

    Opps!……now you have done it Shawn.

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  226. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    “You can’t earn righteousness D4J. ”

    Stop talking piffle just ask your tic club mate bb for the emails so a pathological liar can be exposed in public.

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  227. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    Be careful Shawn, remember that D4J was here first.

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  228. thedavincimode (6,719 comments) says:

    Have you considered a course in anger management Peter? I’m sure that you could find support and assistance from a number of organisations that promote the concept of men as fathers and positive role models.

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  229. nasska (11,281 comments) says:

    ….”A kilt – luxury. My ancestors used to dream of a kilt – paint themselves blue, they would, and roam up and down the vales with their privates hanging out.”…..

    I’ll bet your family reunions are sell outs. :)

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  230. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    Nobody by DPF can hold me back here either Liam. I’ve discussed it elsewhere as well, including with Pete on Twitter. He either didn’t check what I posted and jumped to a (wrong) conclusion or he’s being dishonest.

    It seems odd suggesting political blog issues shouldn’t be discussed on this political blog. I think there’s important principals involved – especially when it concerns media that has ambitions of becoming a major influence in our political discourse.

    They’ve got a lot of learning to do. Sure they’ve built some popularity but are also growing their enemies as well, and could be toxic for National – I’ve seen Key and Collins in particular linked to the Billingsley post today just by their known association with Slater. It’s their risk but I don’t see why it shouldn’t be up for discussion here.

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  231. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    D4J, back to the Scriptures boy!

    “Stop talking piffle just ask your tic club mate bb for the emails so a pathological liar can be exposed in public.”

    “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

    2 Corinthians 5:21

    “When the scribes of the Pharisees saw that He was eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they said to His disciples, “Why is He eating and drinking with tax collectors and sinners?” 17And hearing this, Jesus said to them, “It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick; I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners.””

    Mark 2:17

    “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

    3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.”

    Matthew 7:1-5

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  232. Liam Hehir (123 comments) says:

    Oh look, I’m honestly not saying that you shouldn’t post here to your heart’s content. I’m just suggesting that if you really didn’t care about being banned at WOBH, you wouldn’t be (still) grumbling about the banning here. I suggest that’s pretty good evidence you do care.

    That’s a fair observation, surely?

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  233. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    Oh right Shawn so false testimony is ok in your eyes. I suggest you remove that 4 by 2 from your eye and go back and read what the good book says about liars. Goodnight fool.

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  234. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    thedavincimode – if you knew me you’d know that that isn’t necessary. I don’t remember when I last got angry. People often presume incorrectly in non-personal forums, maybe they think everyone else has fuses like their own.

    I don’t shy away from mixing it but don’t confuse that with anger. I laugh at what goes on much more than I fume. I’m happy to pick my fights.

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  235. SGA (998 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 9:32 pm

    Picts SGA?

    Most likely somewhere – I’m certainly a mongrel of diverse, but pretty much exclusively, Celtic sources. Of course, we’re civilised now :-) . Have been for a few generations.

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  236. thedavincimode (6,719 comments) says:

    PG

    What on earth are you talking about?

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  237. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Oh right Shawn so false testimony is ok in your eyes.”

    Did I say that? You have just done the same to me.

    ” I suggest you remove that 4 by 2 from your eye and go back and read what the good book says about liars.”

    So you have never, ever, not once, told a lie D4J? Really?

    Well, what a wonderfully righteous man you are! Clearly you have no need for the saving work of Christ, as you are so much more righteous than the rest of us!

    “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”

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  238. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    D4J

    “Oh right Shawn so false testimony is ok in your eyes.”

    Clearly it is perfectly acceptable in your eyes.

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  239. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    Liam – you’re confusing ‘grumbling’ with making points I think are pertinent to political blogging.

    Maybe you’re happy to think WO is an open forum of free speech but others may be interested to know that many political forums have controlled messages.

    They are happy to dish out ‘uncomfortable truth’ but don’t seem so happy with the whole truth. If you want to understand how the blogs work you have to learn about them. DPF’s commitment to free speech is rare in political blogging. Most succumb to putting their own agendas first.

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  240. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    “So you have never, ever, not once, told a lie D4J? Really?”

    Oh trust me Shawn, the list is loooooooooooooooooong and varied.

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  241. dad4justice (8,148 comments) says:

    “Clearly it is perfectly acceptable in your eyes.”

    Haha this from a lunatic that falsely claims to have emails sent by me.

    This is laughable. Haha your nuts big bruv. Haha………………………………..

    Looks like my $1000 wager is safe then bb? What a lying creep.

    At least I have exposed a nasty, vengeful and vindictive liar. Job done.Haha what a loser.

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  242. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Celtic sources. Of course, we’re civilised now :-) . Have been for a few generations.”

    You have never been drunk with a group of Irishmen then! :)

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  243. Liam Hehir (123 comments) says:

    I don’t really think about WO and to be honest, I don’t really think about whether it is or isn’t an open forum.

    However, I suggest that you do care. Just an opinion.

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  244. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    Best be off to bed D4J, you don’t want your hard earned righteousness to be contaminated by engaging with us mere mortals.

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  245. SGA (998 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 9:55 pm

    “Celtic sources. Of course, we’re civilised now :-) . Have been for a few generations.”
    You have never been drunk with a group of Irishmen then! :)

    Never had trouble with the Irish. A guy from Glasgow joined a group us out drinking one night though – as he got drunker, he got angrier and angrier, but his accent got thicker and thicker and we couldn’t work out what he was angry about. Eventually we found an excuse to gracefully exit – it felt like we were drinking with a time bomb.

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  246. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    D4J

    Now run along, it is way past your bedtime.

    And don’t worry D4J, I have the emails, as I said I have shown them to others so they know they exist.

    If you actually did have a $1000 I might have considered posting at least one of them here, I am sure that the SPCA in Canterbury could do with the money. However, given you are a broken arse I will not bother.

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  247. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    Interesting that you have picked my ‘grumbling’ out of what is discussed here.

    And no, I don’t care about being blocked from WO. After today’s Billingsley post there I’d honestly prefer to not be associated with them.

    And quite funny that thedavincimode gives me an angry glare. That really made me laugh.

    If people took advice not to post where they might get angry that would gut KB.

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  248. big bruv (13,734 comments) says:

    SGA

    You have fairly accurately described what a night out in Glasgow is like. I did it once, not something I am that keen to ever do again.

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  249. Liam Hehir (123 comments) says:

    Oh forget it.

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  250. ShawnLH (4,609 comments) says:

    “Never had trouble with the Irish.”

    Neither have I, unless you count literally ending up under a table after foolishly trying to match them drink for drink. :)

    Dumb move on my part!

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  251. adze (2,106 comments) says:

    PG

    Unfortunate you were banned at WO. I don’t visit that site very often but it’s not that hypocritical really; free speech doesn’t mean we have a right to post on other people’s sites. Anyone can start their own blog or even publish their own book.

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  252. Rowan (2,119 comments) says:

    Put up or shut up big blouse, prove that you are not a lying piece of crap by posting just one of the alleged emails

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  253. adc (594 comments) says:

    What’s with labour vowing to ban all cosmetics?

    Because for the life of me I can’t imagine any cosmetic doesn’t contain anything that was ever tested on animals at some stage.

    They’d probably have to ban all food as well by that logic.

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  254. thedavincimode (6,719 comments) says:

    And quite funny that thedavincimode gives me an angry glare. That really made me laugh.

    Glad you had a laugh PG; G** knows you need one. But what on earth are you talking about?

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  255. Pete George (23,481 comments) says:

    The July Fairfax/IPSOS is out this morning and while it has a slight improvement for Labour they are only up to 24.9%.

    There are some variations to the Roy Morgan poll that came out yesterday.

    – National 54.8% (down 1.7, Roy Morgan 51.0)
    – Labour 24.9% (up 1.7, Roy Morgan 23.5)
    – Greens 12.4% (up 0.5, Roy Morgan 15.0)
    – NZ First 2.6% (down 0.6, Roy Morgan 6.0)
    – Mana 1.2% (no change, Roy Morgan Internet-Mana 1.5)
    – Conservative 1.3% (up 0.4, Roy Morgan 1.0)
    – Maori Party 0.9% (up 0.2, Roy Morgan 1.0)
    – United Future 0.2% (up 0.2, Roy Morgan 0.5)
    – ACT 0.1% (down 0.6, Roy Morgan 0.5)

    http://origin-interactives.stuff.co.nz/polling/

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  256. dirty harry (456 comments) says:

    Liarbor will never ban cosmetics..Fenton wont let it happen , she knows she would have to resort to a paper bag to venture outside.

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