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February 22, 2008 6:59am by David Farrar

General Debate 22 February 2008

Have a fun Friday. I’m in Waiuku most of the day so don’t expect much more from me.

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Comments (68)

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Simeon

There is only about 7 more days before the petition calling for a referendum on the “anti-smacking” law has to be submitted to Parliament.

Have you signed it to get real democracy in New Zealand on a law where the Government blatantly did not listen to the people?

Down load the form from http://www.unityforliberty.net.nz/petition.html , Sign it, get your mates to sign it and send it to

C/o CIR
P.O. Box 9228
Greerton, Tauranga

By Monday.

Good on ya
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February 22, 2008 7:13am
andymoore

I hear that Larry Baldock will be telling the press the number of signatures they have so far… should be interesting. What gets me is that Cindy Kiro and Sue Bradford are all hopping around, finding it inconceivable that their anti-democratic law might be given a dose of democracy.

And, whether or not “one good parent is convicted for smacking their child lightly”, it’s high time that John Key stands up for New Zealanders and democracy and says “yes, we’ll honour the referendum”.
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February 22, 2008 8:02am
pushmepullu

It makes me sad that it’s going to take a referendum to get John Key against this bill… he should have been against it from the get go.
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February 22, 2008 8:07am
Buggerlugs

Isn’t it interesting that National Radio has become more and more partisan to the incumbent government over the last week or so.

First we have Brian “I’m Helen’s Muse” Edwards going berserk against John Key on Jim Mora’s show last week, now we have Comrades Brent Edwards and Julian Robins doing their best to talk up the government that their editorialising is approaching a level of spin normally only seen from Michael Cullen or the Standard…

I know it’s always erred on the side of Labour, but Radio Pravda appears to be getting overtly Labour to the point where they are bagging any attacks on the Treasury bench warmers.

Any thoughts?
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February 22, 2008 8:22am
cubit9f

Campbell Live pulled a real coup last night didn’t they. An interview with a hood (both the individual crim and the clothing item). It seems that Campbell was not even face to hood with the crim and the voice was someone elses as well.

Just what was the point of the interview. Was it about TV3 giving the public a scoop of some significance, allowing a crim to try to explain his criminality or simply try to bolster the standing of the programme in general or Campbell in particular.

It seems that TV3 simply have no civic responsibility. Despite well crafted responses about the freedom of the media at the end of the day to be part of a democratic free society and enjoy the right that brings they also have responsibilities.

Last night’s programme did little to demonstrate their concern for being responsible to safeguard their rights.
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February 22, 2008 8:23am
vto

Buggerlugs, agreed.

Isn’t it interesting how verbose and articulate types (Brian Edwards, Chris Trotter, etc) assume that their verbosity and articularity give their articulate verbalisations some sort of added intellectuality, insightfulness and credence. There is no such link.
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February 22, 2008 8:37am
Inventory2

Let’s have some fun today – let your imagination run wild at the Keeping Stock Caption Contest!

http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/02/caption-contest.html
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February 22, 2008 8:39am
chandler frank

What about Larry’s little plug for the Kiwi Party last night. Cheeky little blighter. He’s trying to tie the s59 referendum to his party there, when it’s not really his petition (his one is the second petition, calling for an independent review on child abuse or some such)

So I’m just hoping that a vote to repeal s59 isn’t inextricably tied to being a vote for the Kiwi Party. (Ugh, every time I say that name I just of all the Kiwi’s [sic] in New Zealand having their name abused on that shocking website – both the birds and the people)
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February 22, 2008 8:42am
dad4justice

Well done Campbell and TV3 for highlighting crime does pay in this corrupt country and I thought that National Radio was just an extension of the Central Propaganda Department gravy train. Klarlula’s spin-doctors have their insipid controlling tentacles monitoring information and communication channels, which the sisterhood regime filters for the best interests of the people. She thinks we are all as moronic as her Cabinet !

Meanwhile an Indian, who couldn’t care about the untouchables in his own land props up the deluded fools that reek of bad governance in this crazyland, as the backbone of our cricket team goes for the big bucks offered by India. Great to see everybody has got their priorities in order !
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February 22, 2008 8:51am
vto

Ha ha IV2.

I simply had to laugh last night. On TV3 Nightline it showed at this point of your caption pic that Owen Glenn went to step behind the lecturn/display thing towards Helen Clark. It was a clear intention and step. Bovver Boy Mallard then stepped right in front of him and actually used his physical presence to prevent OG from moving towards Clark. Ha ha, what a bunch of imbeciles.
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February 22, 2008 8:53am
Inventory2

vto – I hope that 3News archives that footage – Mallard obviously still believes that “It IS ok!!”:
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February 22, 2008 8:58am
Tauhei Notts

It’s general debate so I am allowed to write this.

Apart from those stooges from The Standard plus a couple of ravers, the comments on this blog are informative and entertaining.

To all of those who contribute intelligent stuff; thank you. I hope you have a wonderful weekend.
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February 22, 2008 9:22am
Bevan

Isn’t it interesting that National Radio has become more and more partisan to the incumbent government over the last week or so.

I once tuned them in for a little balance but quite frankly couldnt stand the sycophantic fawning they always display towards Labour and the clear contempt that can be heard in their voices when ever the National party is referenced, and to think this is a crown entity! If I want to be spoon fed propoganda from the left I’ll visit the Standard.
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February 22, 2008 9:30am
GerryandthePM

John Key gave a very clear indication of what a National Government, led by him, would do if the anti-smacking legislation criminalised good parents.
This Citizens Initiated Referendum call in no way requires his endorsement or otherwise.
His position on the legislation is sensible and reassuringly mature.
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February 22, 2008 9:34am
Owen McShane

I posted this in the thread on the Health Report just before it dropped off the bottom of the page (The Glen effect). It seemed to be generating some useful response, so I post it here again to see if I can get further feedback.
Owen

I was a member of the Auckland Area Health Board in the late eighties so I know something about hospitals work.

I have also had a few admissions over the last few years.

There is a major new problem in hospital management – the lack of language skills at senior medical staff level.

Last time I was in Whangarei virtually none of the middle/senior medical staff spoke English as a first language
The problems I experienced in talking to them, and their problems in talking To Each Other were huge. This problem extended down to nursing staff – thank God for our Maori nurses who have a sense of vocation and speak good English.

One example of faulty medication levels damn near killed me and if I had not understood what was going on and intervened it would have.

Many of the patients don ‘t speak English and yet the walls are plastered with signs in Maori (and all the Maori speak staff and patients speak English)
and nothing in chinese character for example. So Chinese patients were always in difficulties. (Signs in character are legible to Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese., Koreans, Singaporeans and most Malaysian.

The level of basic technology is appalling.
I was supposed to have sole use of an Isolation toilet (camplybacter infection) but anyone could open the door, and the sign was only in english and said “Isolation”.

Most people ignored it. I heard a nurse aid explaining to the women in the bed next door – “Auntie, that toilet across the corridor is just for you.” I had to set things right. A very sick Chinese man say the standard airport figures over the door and went in and fouled up the floors big time – which was supposed to be my territory.

When hotel rooms have electronic key cards why don’t the isolation toilets?
And when airport handbasins have motion sensor taps which deliver temperature regulated water why did my isolation toilet basins have a hot (scalding) tap and a stone cold tap, so that I had to turn on both taps and put in the plug and then open the door with a handle.

Superbugs are a major problem in hospitals and yet the technology is primitive.
What really made me think I was in the third word was that the nurses who came to take blood samples etc wore a massive plastic condom and plastic head covers and rubber gloves but the toilet was totally unprotected expect by a faded “isolation” sign. The one nullified the other.

I can go on..

Why was my wheelchair to wide to go through the door to the triage room – was has this not been fixed? Immediately! The exasperation of the nurse made it clear that the undersized door was a daily event. Probably far too much paperwork needed.

This lack of communication at senior level creates a low overall performance level and terribly low morale.

Please understand that a top medical officer was Portugese and spoke immaculate English. It was such a relief. I am not talking about race here – I am talking about language skills. However, there are some cultural issues causing problems too as any Chinese will tell you. The Maori cultural issues are the least of our problems and indeed in my experience Maori nurses are excellent at the art of healing as well as the science of medicine – and in nurses the first is as important as the second.

We need to finance more of our own into med school and then bond them for a few years and of course pay them decent wages so they don’t all go to Australia.
We cannot go on replacing our own medical staff with people who simply do not understand what their patients are talking about. I was disturbed by the fact that I had to give a “sub-continent” doctor a lesson in arithmetic so he could get my dosage right. And still he wrote it down wrongly.

There are some obvious reforms which could make a world of difference.
It is palpable.
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February 22, 2008 9:42am
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

Why are the pro-smackers still refering to the Christchurch musician as a good parent being criminalised.
Isn’t he on two charges of assualting two different children?
That would make his version of events a little hard to believe.
I guess there are no other cases they can use.
Weird seeing as parents were going to be prosecuted left, right and centre.
If the pro-smackers continue to use this guy as a model parent then they are running a huge risk of looking stupid………more so.
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February 22, 2008 9:46am
cubit9f

Owen McS

Thanks for reposting. I had not seen it before. Full of eminent common sense. My greatest concern is. What outcomes has all of the extra money thrown at health in the last nine years really produced. Yes, all sorts of statistics can be trotted out but in reality the overall standard of the health service hasn’t risen much.

It seems that vast sums of money are consumed to allow for community “ownership” of the delivery of services. Ownership is really shorthand for providing “political ” opportunities for all sorts of people to get involved and play out their political ambitions.

What I want is a high level of health care across the country organised, controlled and delvered by professionals who are simply driven by the key objective of providing that care.

Our current adversarial system simply results in an incredible turnover of governance, administration and clinicians, particulary at the senior level but probably more damaging at the middle/lower level.

Lets get real. We are a small country with a geogrphical reality of physical separation between communities and the rest of the world. We simply cannot afford the fragmented bureacratically overloaded set up that we have.

As an example why are individual health boards negotiating employment conditions with their own staff. All that produces are differences that become the fuel for action by people at other DHB who perceive inequality and injustice for performing the same task.

Comminty of interest arguments are fine but I would contend that because of our low level of populatio we can only afford one community of interest – NZ
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February 22, 2008 9:57am
PhilBest

A good column by Amy Brooke in the latest “Investigate”. “When are NZ parents going to take back their children?”

One memorable point, is that the inability of parents to discipline their children, will lead to MORE violence in the future, not less. The lack of discipline in the schools, and the emasculating of the police regarding young offenders, has already had this effect. The “anti-smacking” law is just the last nail in the coffin of our society’s future.
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February 22, 2008 9:59am
PhilBest

The “pro-smackers”, someone refers to above: That is, 99% of people who have actually had children.
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February 22, 2008 10:00am
philu

“..Comminty of interest arguments are fine but I would contend that because of our low level of populatio we can only afford one community of interest – NZ..”

(careful there cubit..!..that’s sounding suspiciously like ‘socialism’..)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2008 10:00am
philu

ah.!…phil-the-inferior..!

you support hitting/smacking small children too..?

(really ‘living up to’ that ‘inferior’ nickname..!..eh..?)

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2008 10:04am
Buggerlugs

To be honest, I wish the CIR was on our current voting system. The smacking debate is pretty small potatoes when you consider how fucked up the rest of the country is as a result of our socialist overlords.

Someone in Government should just grow some balls and legislate for much much harsher sentences for those convicted of beating (which is considerably different to smacking) children.
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February 22, 2008 10:07am
cubit9f

Phil u

It is socialism (or at least socialists) that has created the current mess. I favour pragmatism
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February 22, 2008 10:38am
Bevan

ah.!…phil-the-inferior..!

you support hitting/smacking small children too..?

(really ‘living up to’ that ‘inferior’ nickname..!..eh..?)

phil(whoar.co.nz)

Do you think a light smack on the bum is the same as a parent beating a child around their head until they are unconscious? Clearly you do as you are trying to mix the words smacking and hitting together to confuse the question.
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February 22, 2008 10:44am
andymoore

GerryandthePM (February 22nd, 2008 at 9:34 am ) said…

“This Citizens Initiated Referendum call in no way requires his endorsement or otherwise. His position on the legislation is sensible and reassuringly mature.”

Really? No, as I said before, if John truly respects New Zealanders, then he will respect the outcome of the referendum.
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February 22, 2008 10:44am
GerryandthePM

Owen McShane – many of us have experienced at least some of the concerns that you raise. As this is the day of “not my problem”, few involved within the system are inclined to do more than, at the most, mention it to a superior. For those of us outside the system, there is no ready avenue for constructive comment. Your observations warrant serious consideration (well action really), but commissions of enquiry are too ponderous. An interim “ombudsman” type role, attached to each hospital, would very quickly amass a dossier of immediately correctable problems, and probably just as many simple solutions.
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February 22, 2008 10:57am
Chuck Bird

What I find appalling from those who want to undermine parental authority with phoney claims of care about children is there silence about serious child abuse. At the end of this post is an open letter I posted to Cindy Kiro along with an article from the Herald about the case of a 13 year old girl impregnated by a 21 year old man where the police choose not to prosecute.

I raised this issue on Russell Brown’s Public Address. I could not believe that someone would defend the police inaction with such comments as Samuel Walker where he ask did the girl want the paedophile prosecuted and would a prosecution be in the girls best interest.

http://www.publicaddress.net/system/topic,957,hard_news_not_so_much_ironic_as_outrageous.sm;jsessionid=F0C25DB82C4168BFB5C4533822A03109?i=20#forum-replies

Does anyone on Kiwiblog the police not prosecuting this paedophile?
Dear Dr Kiro

I am posting this email to you on Muriel Newman’s New Zealand Centre for Political Research Forum. I will be happy to post your response.

http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124

I am writing in response to your article on Stuff, “Keeping our children safe”.

I realise that it would be pointless to try and debate the issue of parent’s rights with you as you are primarily concerned with keeping your highly paid job and pushing the ideologically driven Labour government line which undermines parental authority.

Do you recall when Phil Goff floated the idea of 12 year olds being allowed to have sex? There was a public outcry. I might have missed but I heard no comment from you. Did you condemn Labour for flying that kite?

I also cannot recall hearing any comment from you regarding the hunter in the Taupo area leaving a 2 and 5 year old in his car for two hours while he went hunting recently. The 2 year old went missing in the bush and was fortunately found after 50 searches looked for about five hours. The police are still deciding whether to charge him. I presume you have heard of this case.

The case that I really take exception to is the one below. Would kindly explain why you are going on with a lot of nonsense about a wall of silence and not demanding that this young man be prosecuted and the mother as well if as alleged in the article that she was aware of the sexual nature of her daughter’s relationship and choose to do nothing about it?

As your employer I urge you to get your priorities right and forget about some child getting a flick on the ear and give this case urgent priority which is long overdue. This case is open and shut. If you cannot ensure this case goes to court I suggest you resign so that maybe your replacement will place the welfare of children ahead of pleasing his or her political master.

Regards
Chuck Bird

Minor has baby: no charges laid
5:00AM Sunday November 25, 2007
By Stephen Cook

Police chose not to lay charges against a 21-year-old who fathered a child with a 13-year-old girl – even though he confessed to police he had been having sex with a minor.

The pregnancy was highlighted last week by Children’s Commissioner Cindy Kiro, who used the case to illustrate “the wall of silence” protecting people who committed child abuse.

The girl had started having sex from the age of 11 and Kiro claimed that no one in her family would come forward and shed any light on who was responsible.

However, the Herald on Sunday understands the father turned himself in to police but was given only a verbal warning by officers.

Rape Crisis is demanding answers about why police never charged the man with having sex with a minor. It says the police’s failure to do so sends extremely worrying mixed messages to teenagers.

A conviction for having sex with someone under the age of 12 carries a maximum prison term of 14 years. Having sex with someone under the age of 16 carries a 10-year maximum prison term.

Sources involved with the girl’s family told the Herald on Sunday the man had been involved in a sexual relationship with the girl since she was 11. When Child Youth and Family (CYF) became aware the girl was pregnant at 12, she was removed from the mother’s care and placed with a family member. Four months ago the girl gave birth. She was 13.

It is understood the 21-year-old is still involved in a relationship with the girl and has supervised visits with his son. During the day the baby is cared for by a family member, allowing the girl to remain at school.

A source told the Herald on Sunday the girl’s mother was aware her daughter’s relationship was of a sexual nature, but chose to do nothing about it. For five months, the girl had managed to hide the pregnancy, and authorities became involved only after being alerted to the case by the girl’s doctor.

It was then that CYF intervened. CYF is understood to still be monitoring the girl, but with the refusal of police to act in the case it is hamstrung over taking any action about her relationship with the baby’s father.

Asked about police protocols in the case of someone having sex with a minor, a spokesperson at Police National Headquarters said charges were laid only if there was sufficient evidence and proceeding with a case was in the public interest.

Rape Crisis spokeswoman Sandz Peipi said the fact the 21-year-old had been involved with the girl when she was only 11 was “disturbing and quite perverse”.

Whether the sex was consensual was irrelevant because of the girl’s age and the man should have been charged by police.

The fact he had admitted committing “statutory rape” meant police had more than sufficient evidence to go on, Peipi said. She was also surprised police did not believe it was in the “public interest” to lay charges.
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February 22, 2008 10:58am
GerryandthePM

andymoore – requiring John Key’s endorsement for the need for a referendum is quite different to how he should regard the results of a referendum.
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February 22, 2008 11:04am
Socrates

“One memorable point, is that the inability of parents to discipline their children, will lead to MORE violence in the future, not less. The lack of discipline in the schools, and the emasculating of the police regarding young offenders, has already had this effect. The “anti-smacking” law is just the last nail in the coffin of our society’s future.”

PhilBest – you seem to be implying that the only way to discipline your children is through smacking. This is one of the parts of this whole debate which has frustrated me from the start. The pro bill supporters say that any smacking is wrong and assault and you are a poor parent, and the anti-bill supporters saying that if you don’t smack you are a poor parent. Both positions are wrong.

Personally I think that smacking is not the most effective way of disciplining a child, and have no trouble disciplining my children, both who have never been smacked. However I also feel that the bill is wrong and the wrong instrument to deal with serious child abuse.
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February 22, 2008 11:09am
Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left

“The “pro-smackers”, someone refers to above: That is, 99% of people who have actually had children.”

bullshit
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February 22, 2008 11:45am
infused

Got this email this morning from a guy who works for the Council.
Sounds like utter BS to me, but worth a read.

“Subject: heads up

Hi Guys,

Feels kinda weird sending you this, but if you’re on this list I clearly don’t want you to die so…

Was at a meeting this morning when one of the people from the Ministry of Social Developement stood up with a special announcement, namely that the Bloods gang of South Auckland are doing a recruitment drive this weekend. The police have information that the Bloods are upset with the amount of media and general notoriety of the rival Killer Beez gang, and so have planned the recruitment drive to bolster numbers and gain some attention for themselves. The way the gang works is that prospective members must prove themselves by completing an inititiation task. Apparently, this Saturday night that will involve groups of prospective gang members driving around in cars with the headlights off, with the intention that anyone who flashes their lights back at them will be chased and at the conclusion of said chase will receive a vicious beating. The take home message was not to flash your lights at anyone driving with their lights off on Saturday night. This is supposed to be happening all over the city between the North Shore and Franklin.

According to the source, the police are reluctant to release this information to the general media until either late in the piece or not at all, for fears that the gang will just change their tactic or dates, making it completely unpredictable. I find this all a little hard to believe, but likewise will not be flashing my lights at anyone on Saturday night. Seems a small and logical precaution to take on the off chance that there is any truth behind the murmurings.

Have a nice day.

[*Name Deleted]

North Shore City Council
1 The Strand, Takapuna
Private Bag 93500, Takapuna,
North Shore City, New Zealand”
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February 22, 2008 12:01pm
Bevan

infused: Variations of that urban myth have been doing the rounds for as long as Ive had the Internet.
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February 22, 2008 12:17pm
PaulL

infused – I think this is a known hoax e-mail.
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February 22, 2008 12:32pm
Buggerlugs

Wouldn’t it be much easier for them just to arrange a fight with a rival gang? And then let everyone with a firearms licence know where it’s going to happen so we can finish off any survivors?
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February 22, 2008 12:41pm
gd

As regards health and Owen McS post Ive long held the view that the answer is to send half the non medical staff home on full pay for 3 month and tell them to find a real job. Not difficult in the climate job market. then ask the medical staff to list the 5 things that prevent them doing their job to the max.

Appoint from the ranks of the remaining admin staff those who agree to work towards the 5 things ranked over all. they would sign an undated letter of resignation at appointment.

In six months time send half the remaining non medical staff home on full pay as per above.

Take the saving in non medical staff and other associated costs and increase medical staff pay rates and employ more medical staff from overseas.

Bond medical students for 5 years after qualifying in return for no study fees.

It aint rocket science its plain common sense.
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February 22, 2008 1:28pm
gd

Why not concerned citizen organise a drive by known gang houses and give them a few bursts with AK47s and lob some incendiary devices.

Tell you what That would fix the bastards. Not known for their bravery
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February 22, 2008 1:32pm
Buggerlugs

Live army training – close quarters battle practice versus gang members.
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February 22, 2008 1:43pm
Puzzled in Ekatahuna

So what happens if someone lays a complaint with the Broadcasting Standards Authority that the Campbell Live medals thief interview was a hoax as suggested on Radio Live this afternoon? Will the Authority be obligated to authenticate the interview, or fine TV3 if they fail to co-operate?
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February 22, 2008 2:15pm
Rex Widerstrom

Re Radio NZ.

While bias has become more obvious since I worked at NatRad over 20 years ago it’s always been present simply because presenters and journalists are human, and humans approach an issue with a predefined set of beliefs and experiences.

I’ve always believed that – with a few exceptions – all politicians are bastards so considered myself unbiased as a journalist and commentator as I’d hand it out equally no matter who was in power. But with experience comes the realisation that that attitude is also biased, albeit against the minority of decent people who enter politics and try to do the right thing.

So I’ve come to the conclusion that writing to the (toothless) BSA isn’t the solution. Let NatRad lean left if it wishes… what’s needed is an intelligent right-leaning alternative. No one who listens to NatRad would willingly tune to, say, Radio Live. Not because they’re wedded to a left-leaning perspective but because they want to listen to people capable of erudite and reasoned discussion, not egotistical redneck ranting expressed purely to shock, in the hope of propping up falling ratings.

Radio Live doesn’t exist to offer a rational counterpoint to left wing media bias. It exists to try and make a buck for it’s foreign owners. And they’ll hire any nincompoop loudmouth they think might rate, regardless of whether they’re capable of convincing a single voter to change their opinion.

Establishing a radio network isn’t that expensive. Resourcing it with sufficient staff to research, produce and present intelligent, articulate programming is a high ongoing cost however. But not impossible.

I’ve never understood why right wing interests in NZ haven’t founded an alternative network (either TV, radio or both) with the express purpose of offering an alternative perspective. Far better investment than chucking it at political parties, I would have thought.
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February 22, 2008 2:42pm
SPC

gd

The better option is to write off the tertiary debt of medical staff over 5 years. This then includes staff returning from overseas, current trainees and graduates.
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February 22, 2008 2:51pm
SPC

Owen

To raise a point that can also apply to local government administration

there could be (national) services provided to area health boards to reduce unnecessary duplication of administration at each one.

gerry

The idea of an ombudsman at each hospital – maybe a national ombudsman type unit focused on best practice, with local agents following up on their behalf at each health board and or reporting problems for the national unit to find best practice solutions to.
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February 22, 2008 2:59pm
llew

The better option is to write off the tertiary debt of medical staff over 5 years.

I quite like that idea! Of course, other professions would protest, but I’ve spent a bit of time in hospitals recently & I am struck at how unrealistic medical dramas such as Grey’s Anatomy are – patients get to see doctors. In fact there are two or more doctors per patient!

I’ve yet to see an actual doctor (although I am not the actual patient).
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February 22, 2008 3:01pm
philu

all of you ‘happy days are here again’ numbnuts should really read this one..eh..?

http://whoar.co.nz/2008/many-of-the-banks-are-technically-insolvent-alreadymired-in-their-own-red-ink/

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2008 3:11pm
Buggerlugs

phil –
that was an outstanding chicken little impersonation. but why would you care? your income is guaranteed via my taxes….
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February 22, 2008 3:22pm
SPC

philu

Yes the banking thing is a worry. It’s been on net discussion for about two years and it’s only gone mainstream in the last year.

The Fed handed out far too much cheap cash for too long – all to prevent the American elite take a hit on their stock market profits of the 90’s. They cut taxes on the super rich, they cut cpaital gains taxes, they made saving in cash unattractive – all to maintain the stockmarket bubble. This resulted in all sorts of new financial vehicles (including reinsuring the bonds of investment companies that were high risk – think BNZ loans to Chase, Equiticorp, Ariadne etc) and of course the temporary cheap loans to American home buyers. Now it’s all turned back on them while oil and food prices are causing an inflationary impact globally.
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February 22, 2008 3:32pm
SPC

The whole world is now facing lower growth and inflationary pressures. In the 70’s the result was stagflation. It will be interesting how the more tax cut and monetarist era of today copes with the pressure which undermined faith in Keynesian economics.
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February 22, 2008 3:40pm
gd

SPC Id go with your idea We gotta try and keep out own kiwi trained medicos here for a while althou Yes its good for them to go oseas and get training etc etc

Geez its frightening that the hospitals need interpreters for the doctors who dont speak English well enough and for the patients who do apeak or understand English.

I would have thought that any misunderstanding in a medical situation gotta be a receipy for disaster
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February 22, 2008 4:45pm
dad4justice

Is it true the keystones executed a search warrant TV3 ?

Nail that bastard that flogged the medals – smack him hard 111 and I call you boys & gals in blue nice names and we will be friends when the bad witch falls over. Ten four.
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February 22, 2008 5:04pm
PaulL

gd: the point is that there is a lot of administration in a hospital. If you fire the administrators, the medical staff have to do it. And then they say things like “why am I as a highly paid doctor doing paperwork that a $35K paper pusher could do better”.

I also note that one of the largest causes of preventable death in hospital is basically poor paperwork – the doctor doesn’t have knowledge of existing prescriptions or allergies, and prescribes something that kills someone. Getting rid of the paper pushers can be very counter productive in that area.

As to whether the number we have today is right, I’m not sure. Just saying that we need some.
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February 22, 2008 5:24pm
PaulL

Rex: can agree that we need a solid right wing radio network. What I don’t understand is why the left wing one is government funded and the right wing one has to be funded by “right wing interests.” Seems to me that the govt should fund both or neither.

Of course, the govt won’t fund both because our existing left wing broadcaster claims to be neutral, so clearly there is no need for a right wing broadcaster. This is why we all get annoyed at the blatant left wing bias, not because that is in itself a problem, but because they pretend they aren’t biased.
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February 22, 2008 5:25pm
PhilBest

Socrates, this bill makes almost ANY disciplining of children illegal, even “time out”.

The framers of this bill WANT to erode parents ability to discipline their children, full stop.

The dupes on the Left THINK they are trying to improve society. The ones who are REALLY in the know, KNOW they are trying to hasten its breakdown so that they will have pretext to turn it into a totalitarian socialist state.
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February 22, 2008 5:40pm
john

LETS CUT TO THE CHASE. i think MAORIS along with their multiable sins STOLE THE MEDALS. Opps lets be a true blu raicest hodie arsehole waster fuckwit, the maori STOLE our national treasuere , tagged,killed a child, tagged tagged stole bashed stole killed a child raped raped are fuckwits
LETS GET REAL THIS IS HOW NZ THINKS

[DPF: 20 demerits. Don’t attribute the alleged crimes of a few to an entire race. ]
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February 22, 2008 6:12pm
john

this is the REAL world david , (I DIDNT STEAL)
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February 22, 2008 6:14pm
PaulL

John – that one is a definite banning offence. I’d suggest apologising for it before DPF gets here….
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February 22, 2008 6:15pm
dad4justice

Now this medal thing. Who runs our police force, corrupt politicians or fucking lawyers ?
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February 22, 2008 6:16pm
Rex Widerstrom

PaulL: National has continued to fund NatRad while in office… I’m sure they’re aware of the bias, it’s just that any attempt to touch the public broadcaster is viewed as political interference in free media. And frankly I’m glad… I don’t want the government to control any media, even media it owns.

I totally agree it’s unfair, but I’m more than a little tired of hearing right wing interests whine about what’s been obvious for at least a decade (it wasn’t nearly so blatant when I worked for NatRad in the 70s and early 80s, anyway).

The Bush Administration still funds PBS. So did Reagan. My message to those with money who don’t like it (as opposed to those of us without money who just have to accept it): suck it up and do something about it.
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February 22, 2008 6:24pm
philu

john..have you met phil-the-inferior..?..and d4j..?

phil(whoar.co.nz)
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February 22, 2008 6:25pm
dad4justice

philu, are you proud of our country at present ?
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February 22, 2008 6:27pm
Simeon

The petition to get a referendum on the “anti-smacking” law has reached target.

http://nzdebate.blogspot.com/2008/02/smacking-referendum-petition.html
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February 22, 2008 6:37pm
dad4justice

Well done to everybody involved. Great effort team:-)
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February 22, 2008 6:40pm
David Baigent

Latest Roy Morgan Poll,

While it’s still a long way to go, the real life shambles that the Labour Party are showing NZ now, makes it just that much harder to fix.
They really need to get back some resemblance of mojo quickly..

“Support for the Governing Labour Party is down 4% to 32.5%, while the Opposition National Party is up 6% to 51.5% following the very positive media coverage of its leader, John Key, attending the Waitangi Day dawn ceremonies in the absence of Prime Minister Helen Clark who once again chose not to attend.”

http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2008/4272/
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February 22, 2008 8:03pm
kehua

John. you are a semi-literate fuckwit, do the Blog a favor and fuck off.
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February 22, 2008 8:11pm
SPC

PaulL

The left has to put up with print media editorials which support business over unions, tax cuts over government spending etc and if they don’t like it they have to fund a left wing paper?

Given APN’s ZB network and other talk back radio is pro National there is a balance in radio that does not exist in print.

There is of course a bias on the right against informed comment and balanced provision of information about an issue, which is why of course they see National Radio and journalists as biased to the left away from the inflexibly right wing line taken on talk back radio and in the editorials.
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February 22, 2008 8:45pm
PaulL

SPC: which of those newspapers are funded by the government? And, btw, you are dreaming if you think that the print media has a right wing bias. No reputable study has shown that, many have shown left wing bias.
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February 22, 2008 9:16pm
SPC

PaulL

Yeah right and I am out of Tui ale.

Name some studies then, if there are so many.

The fact is indisputable – the Herald and Dominion editorials are pro National and anti-Labour – pro ECA and anti Labour’s reform of it, anti government spending, both for tax cuts from election to election for decades.

That journalists who report the news and those who make political commentary are dealing with facts or being even handed is not in line with editorial bias, galls the right, but that is not being left wing.
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February 22, 2008 9:41pm
aucklandabbey

Hey comments on hospital staff not being able to speak ENGLISH. Thuoght this was a stipulation of entry into our fair country or do we just let anyone in these days(Spot the REAL kiwi ha!).
Especially when its our health concerned.
Make them lkearn ENGLISH BEFORE they get entry. After all this is an ENGLISH speaking country FIRST is it not.
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February 23, 2008 10:23am
aucklandabbey

Also yeah rotten sods for stealing medals. Did any of the Maori Battlalion ones get taken? If yes why dont the elders get in and punish their own I say.
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February 23, 2008 10:26am
aucklandabbey

Oh and who is going to be paying for this 13 year olds child? And at 13 do we think she herself still being a child, sorry teenager(just) can cope with the upbringing of a child.
Maybe a lack of sex education is the problem. Maybe a new and IMPORTANT part to be included in curricculum at school for “of legal age” or slightly younger. So they know the consequenses of their actions.
At this stage im not commenting on the parents side because i dont know the background of them so im just leaving these comments.
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February 23, 2008 10:44am

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