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August 18, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 18 August 2020

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General Debate

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Ian Boag

It’s fun getting stuck into people about what may/might/could have/should have happened. Arguing about who knew what and when.

Perhaps we might attempt a bit of crystal ball stuff. There must be some KBers who know what the circumstances would have to be to resuscitate international tourism.

On the face of things it starts with “open borders”, vulnerable oldies (like me) are encouraged to lock themselves away, then we just let it all happen.

We can encourage younger people to visit and stress that covid will just be like a dose of flu even if they do pick it up. Not much point testing the incoming folk if we are not trying to control things internally. Not much point doing contact tracing.

Then we lose the “almost covid free” state. Anyone who comes here for a visit will be quarantined when they go home. Not a great encouragement to come half way round the world….

If this is the case (inbound foreign tourism stuffed for the foreseeable) should we spend money propping up basket case tourism operators? There’s a fair amount of hospo that overlaps with it.

I don’t know if herd immunity would do much to protect tourists. Assuming that some of the wishful things being said about it are true …..
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December 18, 2019 10:04am
- Ian Boag
  
  Downticks don’t keep me awake at night, but I’m a bit curious ….
  
  Are they from people who think we should just keep doing what we are doing? Are they from people who think I am being an optimist? or a pessimist?
  
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  August 18, 2020 11:28am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    “Are they from people who think we should just keep doing what we are doing? Are they from people who think I am being an optimist? or a pessimist?”
    
    Nothing personal, but I think that the down ticks are mostly from people who think you’re an idiot.
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:31am
    - surfing
      
      What a nasty thing to say.
      
      The OP is clearly older and in an at-risk group, so some things they say make sense. Also, it is true that herd immunity is not a sure thing because it is a scientific fact that covid-19 antibodies disappear very quickly in some people. There is truth in what they say, so why call them an idiot?
      
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      August 18, 2020 7:43pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Age is no barrier to idiocy.
        
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        August 18, 2020 8:22pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    Ian Boag -my take on downtickers:
    Three types:
    1. Those who are politically motivated/paid and who downtick without even reading the comment. It’s not personal.
    2. Those who downtick a commenter because they don’t like the commenter. It is personal.
    3. Those who just disagree with the comment/er this time, but maybe not next time.
    
    I have seen contributions heavily upticked
    presumably meaning that the readers agreed and approved.
    Then someone else puts on something similar and it goes into hidden territory.
    I can only assume that some people downtick just because they don’t like the commenter no matter what they say and the issues/debate don’t matter.
    
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    August 18, 2020 12:00pm
    - Batman
      
      Nobody is paid. It’s mostly just partisan tribalism.
      
      But yes you’re right otherwise imo
      
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      August 18, 2020 12:36pm
  - IC5000
    
    Down ticks from a readership with their political beliefs are like Austrian duelling scars – a mark of honour.
    
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    August 18, 2020 1:16pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Nice cope, bro.
      
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      August 18, 2020 1:22pm
      - IC5000
        
        How far have you gotten through the Turner diaries?
        
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        August 18, 2020 1:53pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        I’m up to the part where he scores his 100th first class century.
        
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        August 18, 2020 3:31pm
wimpston peeeders

Thinking about how the opposition can gain traction with the added 4wks and what they need to do.
its simple really do the same as any of the past and present charismatic leaders have done.

sell hope its that simple, forget the billion dollar highways and trying to outspend each other and start selling hope and a dream.
thats all jacinda done but she failed to deliver it so perhaps campaign on “deliver the dream” it cant be that hard to come up with a few hope inspiring policies and ideas in the current climate, I can think of several that target a very broad base and thats whats needed not the narrow minded approach the nats currently have and hell even do a labour and take an old policy from another party that hits a broad target and and a bit of flair and dress it up a tad and viola.

2 months to do it, I have hope but wouldnt bet a cent on it as part of me thinks national is stuck in their ways but maybe just maybe theyll get a kick in the arse and be a real opposition with a real plan.
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August 18, 2020 8:01am
- Doc Holliday
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  MAGA
  
  Making Ardern Great Again
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:58am
  - pdm
    
    Doc – 8.58
    
    Weren’t you shot at the OK Corrall – or was it only a glancing head shot?
    
    Ardern was never, ever great.
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:12am
    - igm
      
      Was never ever great and never ever will be great . . . in a position well beyond her adility and bullshit.
      
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      August 18, 2020 12:06pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    It’s OK Doc, the men in white coats will be there shortly.
    
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    August 18, 2020 1:57pm
- IC5000
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  > it cant be that hard to come up with a few hope inspiring policies and ideas
  
  It’s not that hard but you have a leader who is fundamentally unlikable, a faux Law and order candidate whose nickname was gained after crushing 3 cars, who has been compromised by questionable political and commercial dealings with the worst type of scum and who lacks judgement.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:07am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Cant wait to see you do your Hero Winston Peters
    Lol
    
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    August 18, 2020 1:17pm
    - IC5000
      
      > Cant wait to see you do your Hero Winston Peters
      
      I don’t have political hero’s. That’s the difference between us, you have an emotional investment in people like Trump which makes you blind with rage when someone criticises him because it is an indictment on your own judgement and existence. I actually have anti-heros, people who I never want to be like and to be honest there are plenty here.
      
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      August 18, 2020 1:59pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Oh dear, you wouldn’t by any chance be a Jacinda worshiper would you? My take on Jacinda worshipers is that they have a mummy complex.
    “Mummy will tuck me in to bed, she’ll keep me safe from all harm.” They need to grow up.
    
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    August 18, 2020 1:19pm
    - Harriet
      
      Yep it’s gone from the nanny state to the nursery state under mummy Cindy.
      
      But to be honest — I can’t see National turning away from that as there has been no significant change in direction since Roger Douglas left office……and the country has largely shifted towards socialism since 2000 where you now have workplace ‘attendance’ — WFF payments and childcare payments — both unearned — but simply received due to attendance.
      
      And a National maiden speech after the last election CALLED FOR EVEN MORE MONEY FOR TODDLERS!!!!!
      
      I haven’t lived in NZ since Collins entered parliament — I could be wrong but she doesn’t look like a tax expert to me. 😎
      
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      August 18, 2020 3:47pm
      - IC5000
        
        > and the country has largely shifted towards socialism since 2000 where you now have workplace ‘attendance’ — WFF payments and childcare payments — both unearned — but simply received due to attendance.
        
        I guess we could outsourced the production of the next generations of NZers offshore and import them fully gestated as functional adults from India and China instead of providing assistance for kiwi parents to have children.
        
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        August 18, 2020 4:44pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        I haven’t lived in NZ since Collins entered parliament
        
        Thanks for the insight on how the place you have been out of for about 20 years should be run. We are so lucky to get your free (and pseuded) advice.
        
        Unbelievable …..
        
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        August 18, 2020 6:02pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  Going for a fortnight without any idiotic fuckups would be a good start
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:31am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    Are you talking about the CoL or the national party?
    Nats to my knowledge havent put thousands of people at risk or destroyed an economy with incompetence.
    a couple of naughty texts, a patient list and someone inpersonating ole merv isnt even on the same level of underachievement and fuckups the CoL has demonstrated.
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:46am
Captain Mainwaring

So Karel Sroubek, the jailed drug smuggler with friends in high places, after getting residency in questionable circumstances, has now been given parole just before the election.
Am I the only one who smells a very large rat?
So much for our dubious reputation as a corruption-free country.
And will Lees-Galloway, having been abruptly fired for a marginal ‘offence’ and now with nothing to lose, finally spill the beans?
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August 18, 2020 8:02am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  When is his deportation date?
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357305
  
  Disclosure: I’m not asking for a friend
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:05am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Not until his appeal against ILG’s back-flip on residence, and the deportation notice served on him is heard.
    
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    August 18, 2020 8:46am
  - cmm
    
    I suspect he’s going to Kim Dotcom his deportation to death. I’m sure he could build a more solid case than KDC can too.
    
    If KDC claims he’s at risk going to USA, then Sroubek can surely has a more valid claim facing Eastern European underworld figures.
    
    Disclosure: I don’t have friends to ask for.
    
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    August 18, 2020 8:48am
    - Flossie
      
      I thought he’d been back to his country on more than one occasion already.
      
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      August 18, 2020 8:53am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Did anyone even read the link, his identity was being kept secret as far back as 2016?
    
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    August 18, 2020 9:14am
    - cmm
      
      Good strawman attempt Brian.
      
      The secrecy over his name is not the big issue is it? And, that was decided by a judge, not a politician. Yes, a dudge, but still nothing to do with political influence.
      
      What is the big issue is the attempt to give him residency to override his deportation. That was ILG, almost certainly under pressure from the high chair.
      
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      August 18, 2020 9:31am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Nothing strawman in pointing out over what period of time Sroubeks offending entry to NZ and offending began. Expose the pressure by all means.
        
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        August 18, 2020 9:59am
      - cmm
        
        I’m not seeing too many problems with the way he was handled prior to the ILG saga except:
        
        2008) There could have been slightly better vetting of his residency application. Cock ups happen and this was soon sorted out. He was rightfully charged with using a fake passport and was found guilty in 2011.
        
        Looks like a Labour mess got fixed under National. Surprise, surprise!
        
        2012) Dudge discharges him without conviction – effectively overruling the jury decision and tying the Minister’s hands to prevent deportation.
        
        Looks like dudges put criminal feelz ahead of public safety. Surprise, surprise!
        
        But it really kicks up a gear in 2018 with ILG.
        
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        August 18, 2020 11:31am
      - Sacha
        
        ‘dudge’
        I like it.
        
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        August 18, 2020 1:06pm
- Raphael
  
  I for one am happy with the timing. It has bought this piece of ineptitude and corruption, and our Glorious Leader’s involvement in it, back into the light shortly before the election (even with the new date)
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:06am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Let’s see who’s going to be tying a yellow ribbon around the old oak tree then…
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:19am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  He will be easy to deport as all they have to do is go to his parole address and collect him.
  
  NZ does not need a manipulating lieing convicted drug dealer.
  
  Unless he knows were the bodies are buried and can embarass the government.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:54am
- Inandout
  
  CM, notice that all sides of the political fence have been unusually quiet or have feebly questioned ILG over KS? Something stinks here.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:37am
  - Nickc2
    
    Maybe he is or knows someone who is the Beehive supplier? Stinks of skeletons somewhere!
    
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    August 18, 2020 12:48pm
Maggy Wassilieff

An Alternative to the CoL’s Covid-19 “plan”

The government has not clearly articulated a long term plan to address the threat. Government advisors have articulated such strategies such as waiting for the development of a vaccine and elimination of the virus, which would entail prolonged lockdowns.

https://www.covidplanb.co.nz/manifesto/
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August 18, 2020 8:04am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  From Covid-Plan B
  
  We believe that an exclusive focus on the number of new cases of COVID-19 is less important than measures of whether or not the spread of the virus is causing an increase from background rates of hospital admissions, premature deaths, and intensive care bed occupancy. These latter measures are more important than the former in terms of deciding whether or not the country should be placed under strict lockdown in the future.
  
  A focus of our response to the virus must incorporate returning to normality as soon as possible.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:14am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes – what I have been saying for months. The good thing about science is that it eventually wins out. If there is no single shot magic vaccine soon, the Government will need to change its approach to containment and harm reduction. But it will never do that before the election because it would amount to admitting that we have blown $100 billion.
    
    And for any trolls out there who reply with “every life matters” please explain the Government’s exit plan. Because I don’t see it.
    
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    August 18, 2020 8:23am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      there won’t be a vaccine, and even if there is, it may be several years. A bad vaccine rushed out that has side effects will put back all vaccination by decades.
      
      So waiting for the magic vaccine, well I wouldn’t hold my breath.
      
      So either we yoyo in and out of lockdown with the daily tickertape of context free infection numbers.
      
      Or we go to herd immunity.
      
      We are going to go there anyway, so the only real question is how much damage we do on the way down, to whats left of the productive economy.
      
      We can’t all pay each other subsidies forever you know, it is a strategy that was tried before, a Polish Shipyard analogy for some reason springs to mind.
      
      But of course we won’t have any heavy engineering or manufacturing here either, because of our irrational fear of another invisible enemy – carbon.
      
      New Zealand, never ever lets a good panic go to waste.
      
      I hope when China does eventually come and put us out of our misery, we will still have something left worth stealing.
      
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      August 18, 2020 8:46am
      - Mr_Blobby
        
        There is no way the Cindy and the children will ever admit that they got it wrong,
        
        They will just double down on the stupidly.
        
        Meanwhile we are paid to sit at home doing nothing, a socialst nirvana.
        
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        August 18, 2020 9:00am
      - lastmanstanding
        
        The shortest time to develop a vaccine of this type of virus us 4 years. The average is 10 years. Some like HIV Ebola have never had a vaccine developed.
        
        I say a vaccine is years away if ever and these no telling CV19 may not morph into something else.
        
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        August 18, 2020 9:45am
      - Jimmy White
        
        Fatten up your Dogs as when all the money has gone the Great leader will be demanding that you hand then into the nearest abattoir. $11.56 Kilo
        
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        August 18, 2020 3:25pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Just because people don’t agree with you, and around 90% don’t going by the polls, that doesn’t make them trolls – but it might cause you to reflect on why you are out of step with the majority.
      Add to that the slap in the face JC gave your small minority yesterday by saying she didn’t agree with Act’s policies on opening the border.
      I don’t know if JC’s decision was sentiment based on the polls or if she is a non-believer in the cult. I think the later Benedict.
      Act is heading a long way right. I agree with them on personal choice but unlike the few try hards here, there’s no groundswell for herd immunity.
      
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      August 18, 2020 9:27am
      - herb1
        
        I hope your not driving will texting Brian. GPS monitoring of trucks is the norm these days.
        
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        August 18, 2020 9:33am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        So if 90% of people thought pissing on an electric fence was a good idea, you’d be lining up for a leak Brian? Just make sure you have someone video the “incident” please.
        
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        August 18, 2020 10:40am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Judith Collins is wrong on this.
        
        But it’s probably true that NZ has been made too scared to go for herd immunity, so would lose National the election.
        
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        August 18, 2020 10:57am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Just because people don’t agree with you, and around 90% don’t going by the polls, that doesn’t make them trolls …”
        
        Agreed. I am totally happy for people to disagree with me – indeed in my professional life I would be deeply worried if everyone around me was agreeing with everything I said.
        
        But your comment does not tell me anything new. What is the PLAN? Or is this it, for years?
        
        And BTW my ‘view’ is based on reasoned analysis, including the recent working document by the NZPC. It will be on their website. I don’t have time to link. Am on phone.
        
        What is the evidence base for the view of the ’90 percenters’. I have not heard the PM cite any reasoned analysis, or argument. It is all slogans. So convince me – I am totally willing to change my view.
        
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        August 18, 2020 5:28pm
  - fernglas
    
    That manifesto is dated April 12 so they have gone quiet, largely because they were screamed down at the time. Might be ripe for revision, though. We certainly know a lot more now than we did then.
    
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    August 18, 2020 8:29am
    - fernglas
      
      I spoke too soon. Here is the latest post from them, and they had a webinar yesterday. It is nice to see some experts prepared to stand up and be counted
      https://www.covidplanb.co.nz/category/our-posts/
      
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      August 18, 2020 10:01am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I put it up because they held a big zoom conference yesterday…. and was wondering if anyone watched it.
      
      Anyway… some of that video material is starting to appear on their site…
      
      https://www.covidplanb.co.nz/videos/
      
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      August 18, 2020 10:40am
  - JackRabbit
    
    You can’t address or change what you are not tracking. Their plan means jackshyte because its return the broken model.
    
    Employers have to show the tracking app and take all measures because iandy has put the fear of God into them that Covid-19 is a Resident Evil type virus.
    
    Employers in Christchurch, who care about the welfare of their employess and customers, are being told not to send employees for Covid-19 testing unless they have symptoms of Covid-19.
    
    So on one hand Candy beats you up if you don’t care and sacrifice your business for the greater good. On on the other hand don’t bother getting tested to see you if your staff are asymptomatic, so that you can proudly state to the public you are testing.
    
    Probably because it is storm in a C Cup, and Covid-19 has less potency than the flu. The drivel on Nationwide TV is all about keeping up appearances, but the practicality on the ground speaks another viewpoint and agenda.
    
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    August 18, 2020 8:56am
    - JackRabbit
      
      @Mod??
      
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      August 18, 2020 10:15am
  - cmm
    
    It is well understood that the first wave harvests the easy-pickings. Those that are left are less frail and vulnerable. For the most part, all that has really happened is that some time shifting has happened.
    
    And, yes, Benedict Yu is correct about this “every life matters” nonsense.
    
    Attend a funeral for a 40 year old and another for a 80 year old. Compare the vibe in the room.
    
    Spending hundreds of millions per person to prolong a frail person’s life for an extra few moths is not a good deal, especially when the person is old and frail and has lived a good life.
    
    We balk at the deal for Keytruda ($100k) for younger people with young children, so why are we happy to blow one thousand times as much to keep a sick 80 year old alive?
    
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    August 18, 2020 8:59am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      If your recommendation is for people to attend funerals to prove you are right CMM I think you landed on the wrong planet.
      
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      August 18, 2020 9:30am
      - cmm
        
        No, just do it as a mental exercise.
        
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        August 18, 2020 9:32am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Ffs Brian, why can’t you just acknowledge an obvious point now and then?
        
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        August 18, 2020 11:05am
    - Random T Person
      
      this is the crucial bit from COVID plan B
      It is also clear that around the world the average age of death of Covid-19 patients is near that of the average life expectancy of that country. This is also clear for New Zealand (figure 1), where the shape of the age distribution of Covid-19 deaths closely approximates the spread of deaths over the same period the year before. A formal test for differences in counts between these data sources shows no evidence of difference.
      >>It is very difficult to argue from this plot, that Covid-19 is shortening life spans.<<
      
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      August 18, 2020 9:39am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      So when people ask you your connection to the deceased you say “it’s a mental exercise?”
      
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      August 18, 2020 10:02am
      - cmm
        
        Where did you get that from? But since you seem to believe in alien space travel perhaps I shouldn’t ask.
        
        What I said is that people get far more upset about a young person dying than an old person dying.
        
        This is a perfectly natural reaction. It “seems right”. It is “fair” when an old person dies, but “unfair” when a young person does.
        
        When an old person dies we talk of them having had a good innings or a full life. It is a celebration of their life rather than a horror of their death.
        
        When a sick old person dies we might even talk of a merciful release etc.
        
        When a young person dies it is almost always huge anguish and pain for the people left behind. People, especially parents, can get screwed up by that for a long time.
        
        And yet we’re still spending 1000 times as much to “save” (in reality extend by a few months) an old, frail person’s life but we won’t fund Keytruda to extend the life of a young person.
        
        Now I’m not saying we SHOULD fund Keytruda – that is a different discussion – just saying that if we have determined that Keytruda is not worth funding, then spending 1000 times as much for less outcomes certainly 1000 times as little sense.
        
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        August 18, 2020 11:47am
    - amospicton
      
      Absolutely, we make these decisions all the time. If saving lives was all that matters we’d ban cars, we could build earthquake proof buildings that no-one could ever afford and we’d spend infinity on Health/Pharmac. Would we legalise marijuana I wonder? I digress – the point is that any sensible decision making has to put a dollar value on human life. Then we can weigh the relative merits of lockdown versus herd immunity. We currently have no basis for that decision other than emotional populist knee-jerk nonsense.
      
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      August 18, 2020 10:42am
    - Jimmy White
      
      Bet your not 80
      
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      August 18, 2020 3:26pm
      - cmm
        
        What has my age got to do with logic?
        
        Ok, let’s go ask a frail 80 year old with an expected life expencancy of another 12 months what they would like:
        
        Option A: Do nothing. In this scenario you can carry on as normal. You can still have your social life, visit the grand kids and such. There is a 1 in a thousand chance you might get CV19 and die from it, but a 99.9% chance you won’t. When the nice nurse smiles you get to see that.
        
        Option B: Lockdown. Your social life is screwed. No more visits from the grandkids and going to the kids for a meal. Just stuck in the oldies home with nurses covered in masks. You might not get CV19, but your life is not any longer.
        
        That last year of your life changes to a bloody prison sentence. And guess what, it’s worse because when you do manage to get the kids on Skype they’re stressed because their jobs are screwed and they’re sitting with $140bn of debt that is going to take a generation to pay off.
        
        So I’m not sure that 80 year olds would trade the possibility of scoring less than a day of extra life for having significantly reduced quality of life for their whole last year.
        
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        August 18, 2020 4:41pm
- Doc Holliday
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Clueless climate denier who worships at crank science sites offers plan B – where “B” stands for bullshit.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:01am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Mods..
    Why is the above personal abuse (from Doc Holliday aka – William of Okham and by his real name D.H.) against me permitted on this blogsite?
    
    Do I have to point out the obvious?
    The Covid-PlanB has nothing to do with me.
    
    It has been presented by a group of Auckland University academics.
    
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    August 18, 2020 1:37pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Maggie – you are a bit thin skinned. Personal abuse is par for the course on KB – you just have to harden up a bit.
      
      I should know 🙂
      
      I respect the fact that you have a solid professional background and you don’t hide behind a pseud. But if someone disagrees with you on KB it tends to get personal quite quickly. There’s sooty, Tall Man, Mr_Blobby, Gazza the Giant …. the list goes on.
      
      Sometimes I think the “General Debate” thread could be renamed “General Slag Off”.
      
      The “real name” thing is close to ultimate “doxxing” sin ….
      
      2 5
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      August 18, 2020 5:56pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Ian
        ‘Doc’ has followed Maggy around various blogs slinging abuse at her.
        He was quite active at it here for sometime but accumulated quite a few bans.
        
        4 1
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        August 18, 2020 6:13pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        AoR
        
        followed Maggy around various blogs slinging abuse at her
        
        So what? Tall Man never misses an opportunity to dump on me and I post about 5% of what he does.
        
        We all need to harden up.
        
        2 1
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        August 18, 2020 6:31pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        you just have to harden up a bit.
        I’ve hardened up Ian..
        everyone can read Kiwiblog and discover that:
        
        I have a stinky cunt
        I have saggy little tits;
        I am an alt-right Trumpeter
        I don’t care about the environment
        I suffer from sexual jealousy
        I am menopausal
        I got my PhD by deception/sexual favours
        I am delusional
        I am hysterical
        I drink alcohol
        I’m a witch
        I’m a racist
        
        You get the picture… I’ve probably forgotten a few of the insults/defamatory comments that have been published on KB about me by anonymous abusers.
        
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        August 18, 2020 6:58pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Maggy
        
        I’ve only been a KB follower for a year or two, so a lot of all that goes back beyond my time.
        
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        August 18, 2020 7:08pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Just so you know you’re not alone on that front Maggs – I also suffer from 3 of those very same conditions.
        
        3 0
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        August 18, 2020 7:16pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Ian Boag
        
        I’ve only been a KB follower for a year or two
        
        So you reckon I should just suck it up and take the abuse that is dropped on me regularly here at KB.
        
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        August 18, 2020 7:44pm
    - chukar
      
      Wasn’t the original DOC Holliday from OK corral infamy a drug using alcoholic?
      
      1 0
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      August 18, 2020 9:01pm
Lord of Death and Creator of Worlds

Good morning fellow Kiwibloggers and inmates of the Jacinda Detention Centre (formerly ‘New Zealand’, Land of the Free).
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August 18, 2020 8:05am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  thats the sad reality of it.
  my mate in aussie would love to come home for a bit as his parents are struggling and quite ill. quarantine costs both here and aussie, flights and loss of income for 4wks in quarantine totals over $20K.
  9 months ago you could visit aussie for a couple hundred bux each way oh how things have changed.
  only the rich can leave and return the rest can leave but great uncertainty of when we could return so for now the peasants are stuck here to pay the price of govt incompetence
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:44am
- JackRabbit
  
  Shouldn’t that be Lord of Life?
  
  Otherwise, we could suspect you of welcoming the incarceration.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:57am
- G152
  
  Yes.
  We’re back to the BS.
  Just went shopping for the weekly requirements and we’re back to spacing and waiting and handwashing.
  And people on tills hiding behind their perspex and disinfecting anything resembling a surface..
  And friends in Auckland behind the Auckland Wall, I rather hope they’re up on Deutsche speak with an eastern accent
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:32am
  - Nickc2
    
    Where’s Ronald Ragan when we need him? CINDY, TEAR DOWN THIS WALL FFS!!!
    
    4 1
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    August 18, 2020 1:00pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  I’m not even locked in NZ. I’m locked in Auckland.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:46am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    In your ‘burb behind your mask as we seem to be told.
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:09am
  - Jimmy White
    
    I’m in Whanganui and it took me 30 minutes to get into the Bank today only to be told that they are stort staffed and I should ring an 0800 number.
    
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    August 18, 2020 3:29pm
artemisia

The reasons Labour was so keen to keep 19 September as election date – not too stressful to cope with a month of 1pm standups, kind photo ops and a steady stream of almost unexamined spin. Plus no awkward questions in the House.

And that’s just Minister Hipkins.
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August 18, 2020 8:06am
CJames

Interesting to see the cartoon in today’s Australian. https://www.theaustralian.com.au/
Looks like they don’t believe in the kindness either – Guido also had a similar view. The Australian are already in trouble with the Twitterati about their Biden Harris cartoon, so this should push the offendables over the edge.
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August 18, 2020 8:07am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  That was very good.
  
  So was this https://order-order.com/2020/08/17/spot-the-difference-democracy-delayed-outrage-delight/#comments
  
  I was planning to post it on social media, and my partner freaked out. Said that digital communications was likely scanning SM, and that they didn’t want the Labour mob to sic its trolls onto us and damage our livelihood.
  
  Deadly serious.
  
  Have we already become a police state?
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:18am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Yes, we are. Unfortunately Judith Collins isn’t standing up for more liberty. I’m just about done. If they make those bloody masks compulsory even if just wandering around, I’ll rather not leave my home at all. It’s such an insult to our judgement and liberty.
    
    And I’m all for masks in crowded places! But they should be *voluntary* if people feel they need to wear one.
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:21am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      if they make masks compulsory then stand the fuck up for what you believe in and rally those with the same views into the streets.
      
      problem is too many wimps these days lie down and dont fight for their rights and freedoms. just staying at home in protest is the same as compliance in their eyes.
      
      stand for what you believe in or lay down and get trampled!
      
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      August 18, 2020 11:55am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        You’re right, but what when one does want to wear a mask in crowded situations, because of a particular vulnerability or contact?
        
        My point is not anti masks when they can make sense but against this weird ‘masks outside whatever the circumstances’ message they started yesterday.
        
        Still not compulsory but would even that push NZ sheeple too far? I don’t think so. And Collins has said she would make them compulsory if health advisors wanted it. Chilling!
        
        I feel your anger though. As Spaniards do: https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/08/17/903282953/we-can-t-live-like-zombies-protesters-in-spain-decry-covid-19-mask-mandate
        
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        August 18, 2020 1:20pm
- Nickc2
  
  Love it! $50m + says it won’t be published in any of our news papers.
  
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  August 18, 2020 1:11pm
dave_c_

Mmmm. It’s all unravelling for the govt.
Ardern, had to resort to repeating himself (and lying), in order to use up the interview time, such that he could avoid the serious questions about testing of staff in the quarantine facilities.
No-one will be held accountable!
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August 18, 2020 8:10am
- JackRabbit
  
  “Ardern, had to resort to repeating himself. … such that he could avoid the serious questions…”
  
  Trans Parent Government?
  
  Please share!
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:59am
  - dave_c_
    
    Jack – the evidence is out there – Find the video of him swanning through the halls of parliament, in a flimsy dress – This leaves absolutely no doubt !
    
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    August 18, 2020 12:11pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Seen that. And can’t un-see it it either!
      
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      August 18, 2020 2:42pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Obviously you think border staff our mindless idiots ready to suck Covid up their noses at smoko. Get real and give them credit. They are the people on the front line.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:42am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Yes but given where they work they should be regularly tested and if they haven’t been they should be asking or demanding to be tested.
    In fact for them to work there the testing needs to be part of the deal……if they refuse to be tested then sorry, you cant work at the border.
    
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    August 18, 2020 9:52am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Apart from the mindless idiots of course – that would be their ministry managers, who didn’t train them, and didn’t equip them with PPE.
    
    Can you really come on here and defend the practice at the border?
    
    “Have a party, and take a trip to Mike’s place”.
    “Gang checkpoints in Northland are OK.”
    “GET OFF THE BEACH!”
    “We are the only source of truth!”
    “Don’t wear masks, experts tell us they aren’t necessary”
    
    Vs
    
    “Oh, well we didnt want to mandate testing of border staff, because it was a bit high handed.”
    “Bit disappointed the Minister of Health wandered off, went biking and moved house rather than do his job, but still have confidence in him.”
    “Disappointed that quarantine standards aren’t being managed”
    “WEAR MASKS OR ELSE”
    
    Hmmm. Great consistency there.
    
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    August 18, 2020 9:57am
Simon

The Russian truthers have moved onto mail boxes.

At the very top of the pile of shit which is the DNC/Deep State/MSM leadership there is a method in this madness. Millions of low information people will believe that Trump stole the November election. Violence and chaos will follow.
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August 18, 2020 8:13am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Scott Adams is calling this Coup V2.0
  
  Opposing fraudulent mail-in voting = hating democracy, apparently.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:26am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Scott Adams also wants to replace the Police force with social workers, so that excludes him from giving his opinion to anyone other than his cat.
    
    8 2
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    August 18, 2020 10:57am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      I saw a meme that suggested that the social worker idea works just fine, until the naked 6ft4 man off his face on P armed with a machete comes running at you.
      
      At that point, police become handy.
      
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      August 18, 2020 11:59am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Yes, seeds are being planted in the minds of the uncomprehending idiots. As usual, the exact opposite of what the media tells people will be the case.
  
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  August 18, 2020 10:59am
Yvette

A certain number of journalist and talk-back radio hosts have now concentrated on a passage in yesterday’s rhetoric –
Jacinda Ardern said she would not change the election date again.
If a further outbreak followed: “My view is we will be sticking with the date we have,” she said.
The decision was hers alone, she says. “The date I’ve chosen actually is my view.”
“Even if I had not picked up the phone and contacted anyone I believe this is still the outcome I would have arrived at.”
“Covid is the world’s new normal,” she says.

Instead of speculating on whether this may be a change from fortress mentality to Swedish acceptance or something in between, why the fuck does a journalist not simply ask Ardern directly, or do they not do that anymore?

Or do her stand-ups where she selects who may ask questions, stifled independent questioning.
Ask an unwelcome question one day and you won’t get the nod next day?
Will the Opposition still raise this matter – any change in the “master plan” – in Parliament or the media.

… the current Auckland cluster is 69 percent Pasifika, 16 percent Māori and 14 percent other.
That’s 85% Polynesian. In the first March surge of the virus about 8% of cases were Maori, so only half of their 16% population portion. In the current resurgence, Maori and Pacifica apparently predominate, although hospitalisations do not yet reflect the 200% vulnerability that at least $56 million extra funding to “Maori health” indicating Robertson and Ardern expected.

“The conditions for a wildfire community transmission are rife in South Auckland; crowded housing, poverty, poor social conditions, people not being able to readily access healthcare, higher prevalence of comorbid conditions like diabetes. just like Italy, France and Spain

If the virus has now per chance “repositioned”, it would be nice to know if Ardern is changing tact too.
And nice too if, while Ardern is lauded as the international compassionate grand communicator supreme, journalists could fearlessly ask the right fucking questions to clarify what she is saying.
What does Jacinda’s latest slogan “Covid is the world’s new normal” actually mean for New Zealand?
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August 18, 2020 8:13am
- thirteenstars
  
  “What does Jacinda’s latest slogan “Covid is the world’s new normal” actually mean for New Zealand?”
  
  It means the ultimate excuse for the expansion of state power. It’s a wonderful moment for all the health and safety control freaks that have increasingly ruled our lives for a couple of decades now.
  
  Sky’s the limit.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:40am
- mark15
  
  Good morning.
  It means that ‘new normal’ is the new ‘conversation we must be having’ (ugh) about covid 19.
  Along with ‘second wave’,’lockdown’ and my personal least favourite,’social distancing’.
  ‘They’ own the narrative,not just control it.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:42am
- fernglas
  
  South Auckland is much worse in many respects than Italy, France or Spain. All those countries have excellent healthcare services and Spain, for example, has the world’s longest lifespan. I would bet that obesity, diabetes and other co-morbidities are far more prevalent in South Auckland than in those European countries. Population density within individual households and damp conditions will make things worse if the virus takes off, as will soocial attitudes towards distancing.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:42am
  - cmm
    
    Some of those factors are true, yes. But here:
    1) Our UV levels are way, way higher, so more VitD.
    2) Even in S Auckland, we use way less public transport.
    3) Air quality anywhere in NZ is way better than in Lima, Brussels, Milan or Barcelona.
    
    Still, as predicted by many, the infection curve swung into the Southern Hemisphere with the seasonal change. Peru is well on its way to top of the pops. 790 deaths per million and growing fast.
    
    Peru is only 10% behind Belgium and, judging by the curve, Peru will steam past Belgium before the end of this month.
    
    Like Belgium, Peru has terrible air quality and high reliance on public transport etc.
    
    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/total-covid-deaths-per-million?tab=chart&year=2020-08-16&country=~PER
    
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    August 18, 2020 9:23am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Wonder how many of these we could afford to put in rest homes hospitals and schools.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYLjjXIESYQ
      
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      August 18, 2020 9:51am
      - cmm
        
        Given that they are not wearing any protective eyewear and skin coverings I doubt it really is emitting useful UV. Still, that’s just a matter of changing the tubes to UV-C tubes.
        
        Better yet – fit UVC in the air conditioning system.
        
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        August 18, 2020 11:57am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I took it to mean that Ardern’s elimination strategy has been formally abandoned, and that living with Covid is part of the landscape now.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:48am
  - Ruahine
    
    I think what Ardern means is that she does not care whether there are high numbers of Covid-19 in the community or not the election is going to be on October 19 because that is what SHE wants.
    
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    August 18, 2020 9:10am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Candy and the Clowns knew about it late last year. If the “elimination strategy” had any merit, should would have addressed back then using the 19Bn Grant borrowed in December. Or put measures in place well before the Ides of March anniversary.
    
    The “Elimination Strategy” was just a marketing ploy, never an actual strategy.
    
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    August 18, 2020 9:18am
  - mark15
    
    She blew all that money and it didnt work.
    
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    August 18, 2020 9:27am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    I take it to mean that the government will put us into an eternal cycle of various level lockdowns, masks, no tourism and limited travel. Constant suppression, not letting it run though for herd immunity while protecting the vulnerable.
    
    Neither jacinda nor Judith Collins are promoting herd immunity.
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:47am
- cmm
  
  It is not just Jacinda.
  
  It is also every little office manager and such who gets to wave around their clipboard and be officious.
  
  The power rush for CV19 is huge.
  
  The idea that CV19 is the new normal must bring on orgasmic levels of power rush hormones.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:03am
  - Ruahine
    
    cmm.
    You are right. I was listening to he announcement of the Auckland shutdown and it was easily to see it was a big high. It was in her voice and the body language.
    
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    August 18, 2020 9:13am
  - JackRabbit
    
    “The idea that CV19 is the new normal must bring on orgasmic levels of power rush hormones”
    
    Hard and Fast.
    
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    August 18, 2020 9:15am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Long, hard, fast and with deep penetration of State power into every last nook and cranny of the nation’s collective orifice. The quivering is nearly off the charts at this point.
      
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      August 18, 2020 11:09am
- Yvette
  
  Okay – with the help of local media, I have perhaps to some extent jumped the gun, or shark or something.
  
  “Even if I had not picked up the phone and contacted anyone I believe this is still the outcome I would have arrived at.”
  “Covid is the world’s new normal,” she says. [ See? – that’s all you get ]
  Ardern says she factored in whether this was fair to Māori and Pasifika voters. [1]
  
  But CNN (great!) does include her next sentence –
  “Covid is the world’s new normal. Here in New Zealand, we are all working as hard as we can to make sure that our new normal disrupts our lives as little as possible.” [2] – CNN
  
  However I still believe my criticism of Ardern’s stand-ups and selection of questions, that journalists pussy-foot around asking them – has any journalist asked Winston for details of his new rumour and its delivery deadline now? –
  and it does seem the virus is now into a more vulnerable population group.
  
  [1] https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/423698/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-changes-election-date-to-17-october
  [2] https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/16/asia/new-zealand-ardern-election-delay-coronavirus/index.html
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:06am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  The very people who will just ignore restrictions and give the middle finger to the government, then scream racism.
  
  The separatists will again show how weak the government is by setting up road blocks.
  
  At the other end ordinary people are starting to protest at lockdown restrictions.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:07am
- Maxx
  
  What does the new slogan mean? Nothing. There is no hidden meaning other than a PR agency helped her select it as the latest turn of phrase to deflect uncomfortable questions.
  
  To think this Government has any plan other than the here and now is laughable. We’ve seen what the extent of their foresight and know that it doesn’t extend past tomorrow.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:12am
- ex-golfer
  
  It means she is subtly back-tracking and pivoting away from on eliminating the virus.
  She has finally realised her hell-bent goal is a pointless one so she will now be slowly getting us used to living with the virus – with new phrases such “COVID is the worlds new normal”.
  She knows that NZ will not put up with going in and out of lockdowns every time a case pops up.
  She knows that the country can’t afford it.
  She knows that her experiment in locking the entire country down for 4 weeks has failed.
  But she will never admit it.
  
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  August 18, 2020 11:42am
- Local Miller
  
  I’d not put too much store in the current infection percentages being mostly Polynesian. This is almost definitely because this cluster was started a PI or Māori who brought the virus into their social group.
  The previous infections appear to have been largely due to in coming non-Polynesians.
  I know this is an over simplification.
  
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  August 18, 2020 11:56am
artemisia

Ashley Bloomfield on testing of border staff: ‘I don’t think there’s been a failure’

Not to worry, it’s just ‘dissonance’. OK then, we believe you.

Asked if he misled the prime minister and Cabinet over testing, he said that he did not.
…..
This morning Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern outlined in no uncertain terms that Cabinet had been let down regarding the frequency of testing.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/423735/ashley-bloomfield-on-testing-of-border-staff-i-don-t-think-there-s-been-a-failure
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August 18, 2020 8:14am
- sooty
  
  It’s everbody else’s fault and she won’t jump under the bus!
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:42am
- Nickc2
  
  Jesus Ashley, which safe Labour seat are you standing in?
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:56am
- cmm
  
  “Cabinet had been let down ”
  
  No sweety, WE have been let down.
  We have been let down by Cabinet.
  
  The reason we have politicians is because they are our representatives. The politicians, especially cabinet, are supposed to be overseeing things on out behalf. Asking the right questions, checking things are happening and the right policies and procedures are in place.
  
  Cabinet has failed to do their job.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:48am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    They don’t see their job as to represent us, they see their job as to govern us.
    
    This is the fundamental problem with this lot.
    
    They have sided with the bureacratic state, because fundamentally they are the bureacratic state.
    
    The peasants job is to be obedient and grateful, Comrade, otherwise no bread for your family!
    
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    August 18, 2020 10:00am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    “We can deflect”
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:25am
- Durden
  
  The dissonance is in Ashley’s planning. The day we went into level 4 (24 March), Ashley should have known that a border quarantine regime was going to be required and he should have started planning.
  
  Now almost 5 months later he says he is still “ramping up” when clearly staff at MIQs don’t think testing is mandatory.
  
  Ashley and MoH screwed up, and Ardern/Hipkins/Woods/Digby whatsisname also screwed up by not asking for proof and verifying if testing was being done.
  
  60% of people working at MIQ not tested. And they try to spin that one site Jetpark has 60% of testing. FFS.
  
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  August 18, 2020 12:51pm
Frank the tank

Some observations/questions for this Tuesday:

1). Chippie is becoming more and more like squealer every day. Unfortunately for him the public is slowly but surely more resembling Benjamin rather than clover.

2). How long does it take to swab and test a cool store? When will the frozen chicken wings diversion be over?

3). How does the MOH line management feel when St Ash threw them under the bus and told Chippie to drive over them again. Which hurt the most the front tyres or the back tyres?

4). Has St Ash and Chippie ever been told about assurance and audit functions? Does this not apply to quarantine facilities? More excel spreadsheets?

Where is the evidence of cabinet directives regarding testing in quarantine facilities and ports of entry? Perhaps Winston can clarify for us.

Your thoughts are welcome
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August 18, 2020 8:14am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I actually thought Bloomfield threw an unnamed Minister under the bus yesterday, clearly implying the Minister had been given the information, in the expectation it would be passed on the the PM.
  
  So was it Hipkins or Wood with tyre tracks across their chests?
  
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  December 18, 2019 8:52am
  - Crisplion
    
    Ashley’s no doubt still smarting from being thrown under a bus himself, by Hipkins’ predecessor. He’s determined to get in first this time around.
    
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    August 18, 2020 9:27am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Megan Woods is nowhere to be seen. Is she on holiday?
    Or witness protection?
    
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    August 18, 2020 10:00am
    - Frank the tank
      
      I dare suggest she might be at “at risk” person with respect to the Kung Fu Flu
      
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      August 18, 2020 11:39am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        No reason not to be talking to the media.
        
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        August 18, 2020 11:54am
- Loddenthinks
  
  “3). How does the MOH line management feel when St Ash threw them under the bus and told Chippie to drive over them again. Which hurt the most the front tyres or the back tyres?”
  
  Sometimes a single uptick just isn’t enough – that’s gold.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:49am
  - sooty
    
    Yes, but was it that big bus with Cindy picture on the arse of it?
    
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    August 18, 2020 10:01am
    - Frank the tank
      
      Who is more expendable:
      
      Chippie or St Ash?
      
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      August 18, 2020 11:38am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Clearly Megan was! Notice how she has vanished the scene?
        
        Chippy and the bureacrat are entirely expendable, Ashley will need a bit of softening up first, because there is still a residual glow about him….
        
        ….. but if its between him or Cindy ….. is that a bus revving up I hear?
        
        Or is it just disappointed, maybe even irritated, Cindy?
        
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        August 18, 2020 12:02pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Again, Jacinda thinks good governance is just another term for Good government (aka: kindness, hugs and rainbows, not assurance and accountability).
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:50am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    To my downticker – please note that last year Jacinda went to a lecture series on good governance in Melbourne and gave a speech on good government where instead of speaking about transparency and accountability etc she spoke about kindness and helping the poorest in society etc.
    
    My statement is backed up by her own actions.
    
    Or were you just downticking because you dislike the truth?
    
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    August 18, 2020 4:58pm
- Ruahine
  
  “Where is the evidence of cabinet directives regarding testing in quarantine facilities and ports of entry? Perhaps Winston can clarify for us”
  
  You are right on the money with that statement.
  I wait with baited breath for the proof of this to present at todays Labour Party broadcast.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:18am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Bhahahahaha. We have been told it takes a week to swab and test a cool store so don’t bet on it.
    
    We should send St Ash, Cindy and Chippie some frozen Brazilian chicken wings as a present for being the one source of truth
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:42am
- Frank the tank
  
  In breaking news St Ash appears to be giving up the ghost on his frozen chicken wings conspiracy theory. He seemed gutted.
  
  All those on the TDB and the Standard will be upset. They were convinced this was the way transmission occurred and were even quoting Chinese government officials so certain were they of this.
  
  Sad so sad.
  
  In other news Chippie resembling a bipolar teenager – yesterday we were going to get out of lock down early today no way in hell. 13 more beer bottles on the wall, 13 more beer bottles on the wall. Remembering war zone NSW only had 3 cases today.
  
  sad so sad.
  
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  August 18, 2020 2:52pm
GazzaW

Tiwai Point closing, Marsden Point scaling back, NZ Steel closing, Taranaki offshore drilling suspended and onshore drilling probably following.

WTF is going on Labour? Are you not even trying to save these industries, regional economies and jobs other than some paltry handouts from the PGF?
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August 18, 2020 8:14am
- mandk
  
  Under the previous government, we used to hear continuous bleating from the Unions and Labour about a manufacturing crisis, even though there wasn’t one.
  
  Now that we do actually have a manufacturing crisis, we hear nothing.
  
  Hello, lefties – are you awake, or are you just woke?
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:28am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    It seems we’ve gone from “a manufacturing crisis” to “manufacturing a crisis”.
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:28am
  - Crisplion
    
    “are you awake, or are you just woke?”
    
    Brilliant line. I’m going to plagiarise it shamelessly.
    
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    August 18, 2020 12:22pm
    - mandk
      
      Be my guest.
      
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      August 18, 2020 3:37pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Carbon bad!
  
  Not to worry Comrade, the new diversified Green economy will save us!
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:42am
- Scott
  
  Gazza – in short answer – no. Jacinda stuffed the Taranaki energy industry with no more exploration. But labour has not been the party of the working man who drills for oil for many years. My late father who was a watersider in New Plymouth, left Labour and went for the Alliance because he felt they represented him.
  
  Labour represents the urban elites and the female teachers, not the working man.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:45am
- Jimmy White
  
  And to make matter worse nobody wants to get up off the couch and pick fruit.
  
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  August 18, 2020 3:34pm
Happychappy

What has happened to this kind caring Government is it this person doesn’t vote Labour or has Jacinda grown fond of the Gestapo type lockdowns that are in place for those she obviously does not care about.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/08/covid-19-chronically-ill-northlander-trapped-in-auckland-due-to-police-checkpoints-can-t-access-doctor.html
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August 18, 2020 8:15am
kowtow

The Ministry of Truth is warning people not to put out false info on so called social media .

The same call should be made of so called mainstream media .

“These discrepancies were largely due to underlying health conditions, racism within the healthcare system and a “one size fits all” Pākehā approach to healthcare.”

Racism within the healthcare system ,who knew ?

I wonder what health care workers think of being accused of racism?

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/fears-major-covid-19-outbreak-pasifika-community
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August 18, 2020 8:17am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Bloomfield made that accusation against all the nation’s health care workers years ago – and attracted almost no attention at the time.
  
  I wrote him an actual papyrus letter at that time, pointing out that those ethnic groups disproportionately overpresented themselves to the ER, so for a racist I had done an awful job in practice as they all got triaged and seen and treated on the basis of their clinical needs – never heard back. Of course.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:07am
  - Durden
    
    This needs to get more sunlight.
    
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    August 18, 2020 12:53pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  How do we prevent the Ministry of Truth from deception.
  Who runs the State Broadcaster? That seems to be a freewheeling govt promo show with frequent nonsense and severe display of TDS. It can’t be good for our international relations.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:25am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Her mentor?
    “Think of the press as a great keyboard
    on which the government can play.”
    ― Joseph Goebbels
    
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    August 18, 2020 9:47am
  - Surely Knott
    
    NZ Herald’s Jamie Morton wrote “Covid – 19: Why ‘that’ Facebook post spread like wildfire” in an attempt to explain why disinformation spreads. The only problem is his article was worse than the original facebook post full of unfounded accusations.
    
    The original rumour contained a number of very specific facts – dates, where they stayed, date of the arrival so it seemed possible.
    
    But the Herald who is looking to present themselves as a more credible source, has an article without a single fact and only speculation. The articles says “Not only had it caused further distress to family at the centre of the South Auckland cluster, Hipkins said, but it also smacked of orchestration.”
    
    Ah smacks of orchestration. So do they have any evidence of orchestration. No. It’s a reckon.
    
    “”For instance, it seems likely that citizens who are political opponents of the Government had some degree of orchestration, if nothing more than ‘if this is true then it reflects poorly on the Government administration’.”
    
    Smearing political opponents with no facts, only “it seems likely.” Is this not the sort of baseless rumor the article is complaining about.
    
    “Or it could have been orchestration at a “generative” level – the kind one sees on the shadowy 4chan and 8chan websites – but Barnes hadn’t yet seen any evidence of that.”
    
    It “could have been”, “but there is no evidence”, but yet here it is in a story about why to avoid disinformation.
    
    “”It feels like this was a little bit co-ordinated – it wasn’t just one person making it up it spread from there, but there were multiple people trying to get this out there,” Chen said.”
    
    “It feels” co-ordinated yeah that’s not a fact. That’s your feeling. Another sign that the person has no facts.
    
    “What was more insidious was its clear plays to racism and prejudices toward women and Pasifika people.”
    
    Really. I went back to the original post and it didn’t mention the persons race at all. But calling racist is a classic way to shut down discussions.
    
    So in summary, the Herald article wonders why the original post spread. It’s because it appeared to have original source information and facts (although later to be disproven) that could have been a plausible reason why the virus reemerged. Where the Herald’s article, had feelings, reckons, and the usual unfounded howlings of racism and conspiracy theories. And the official we think it came in on frozen goods theory didn’t seem plausible. In the end if they want to be the public source of information then give us hard facts and information.
    
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    August 18, 2020 10:12am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      It seems that any talk of “disinformation” is conspicuously never accompanied by any specific examples of this so-called disinformation. It’s a bit of a phantom at this point. Like the “monster in the dark woods” motif in fairy tales and such, it is never given form or content. But you’d best beware of it, children!
      
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      August 18, 2020 11:43am
  - artemisia
    
    President Trump has noticed us now, and not in a good way.
    
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    August 18, 2020 10:42am
- Flossie
  
  Racism in the health system. Definitely it’s there. If you are Maori (or say you are) there are free tests – such as PAP smears. You also go up the list for hospital treatment don’t you?
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:37am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Yes you do. And for medical training, even if you have far worse entry exam results.
    
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    August 18, 2020 12:02pm
oldpark

A matter of “Trust” for the many sycophantic stable of Sheepel who are brain dead followers of Control Freak Ardern . Hear no Evil! Speak no Evil! See no Evil !
How about this one might shatter the Sheepel dags. Especially this is fact not a conspiracy theory .
On the 6th August 2020 Ardern on giving her so called final speech in 2017-2020 Parliamentary Term and Cycle . Was it a Freudian Slip or something a lot more sinister . Her words “Back to Parliament on August 18 2020 at 2.00pm” . Four (4) Days later Auckland went into a Level 3 Coronavirus Lockdown, WTF . Judge for yourselves as for Ardern and her Regime it has always been a matter of “Trust” . Maybe it has now reached the well known adage . “Trust but Verify” .
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August 18, 2020 8:20am
- Loddenthinks
  
  This has been debunked several times on KB – the final speech always mentions a date just after Parliament is due to be dissolved. it means nothing.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:54am
Simon

if you have at any time wondered if you would have conformed or rebelled against the consensus, at *any* of the great turning points of the last century and a bit, I think you now know.

Peter Hitchens
https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1294699383745916928

If you bought into this Wuhan Flu level 1 – 4 bull shit with the crashing of economy and personal freedoms then in another time you would happy to herd the innocent onto cattle trains in the name of “consensus”. Or at very least to look the other way.
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August 18, 2020 8:20am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  love the clip down the page a tad, bunch of muppets protesting side x side pro mail ballots so they stay safe from covid while voting wtf.
  
  it seems anything the left want to achieve is immune to covid…
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:49am
Flossie

Very soft interview with PM on three this morning. First time in all these months I’ve heard of quarantine and frontline border staff not wanting to be covid tested for fear of being sacked if positive. Seriously? Has anybody come across this excuse from the government before?
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August 18, 2020 8:27am
- Loddenthinks
  
  “Has anybody come across this excuse from the government before?”
  
  Look, I’m going to need a couple of days to check through all the excuses they’ve given, to see if that one’s there.
  
  Can I get back to you?
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:59am
- Nickc2
  
  She takes us for fools. She treats us peasants like her Cabinet.
  
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  August 18, 2020 10:10am
- septic skeptic
  
  Who employs the quarantine and border staff?
  
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  August 18, 2020 11:44am
mikenmildagain

It is a commemorative day in Australia for veterans of the Vietnam War. 18 August is the anniversary of the 1966 Battle of Long Tan.
This was the largest single action for the Australians, when D Company from 6th Royal Australian Regiment encountered a large Viet Cong and North Vietnamese force near the Australian base at Nui Dat. Only good artillery, armoured and helicopter support allowed the infantry to maintain their position.
The Australians suffered 18 killed and 24 wounded. Vietnamese losses were anything between 50 killed and 100 wounded (Vietnamese accounts), and 245 killed and 350 wounded (Australian claim).
New Zealanders played a significant role in the battle. 161 Battery, Royal NZ Artillery, fired 6-8 rounds per minute for about 4 hours. Three NZ forward observers were with the infantry, and played a vital role in directing the fire of the NZ, Australian and US artillery.
Captain Maurice Stanley, who led the observers, was made an MBE:

‘Despite this lack of visibility and constant danger from enemy mortar and small arms fire in his exposed position, Captain Stanley continued for four hours to direct accurate close artillery fire onto the enemy’s repeated attacks against the Company.’

Lance-Corporal William Walker was mentioned in dispatches:

‘Despite the constant danger from this fire in his exposed position Lance Corporal Walker calmly and with complete disregard for his personal safety continued for four hours to pass fire orders over his radio to the gun position.’
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August 18, 2020 8:28am
- CJames
  
  Good on you milky for reminding us of the battle. It was an important thing to remember and contrast with the shameful treatment of NZ soldiers when they returned home.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:47am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yea, an ex-PM and a current Mayor spitting at returning troops. Traitorous bastards.
    
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    August 18, 2020 9:11am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      That is an outright lie that is periodically recycled on Kiwiblog.
      While Goff and Clark protested against the Vietnam War, they did not spit on anyone.
      
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      August 18, 2020 12:19pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Were y0u there?
        
        6 2
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        August 18, 2020 1:32pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        How do you know? Were you there?
        https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Escape_hatch
        
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        August 18, 2020 1:58pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        I gather, it wasn’t fake that certain Labour MP’s were involved in the sending of condolence letters to families of soldiers who were NOT dead.
        
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        August 18, 2020 3:17pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hadn’t heard that one before, RW. Can you substantiate that?
        
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        August 18, 2020 4:42pm
  - sooty
    
    Especially that fool Goff and Clark!
    
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    August 18, 2020 10:04am
  - Inandout
    
    CJ, a certain Mayor of Auckland and a past woman PM were in the Queen St protest group and (how should I put it?), expectorated at the brave soldiers. I still believe in Karma though.
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:05am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      See above. This is a fabrication.
      
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      August 18, 2020 12:20pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Today should be the day our self absorbed PM, should recognize this….in …3….2….1….
  No????…what a surprise.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:46am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    18 August is New Zealand’s official Vietnam Veterans’ Day. There is usually a service at Pukeahu. Due to Covid restrictions, there is only a small-scale tribute at the Tomb of the Unknown Warrior, with no public attendance.
    
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    August 18, 2020 12:26pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      and no govt. ministers there either?
      
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      August 18, 2020 3:15pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Ron Mark, at least:
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/122482604/silent-memorial-as-vietnam-veterans-day-observed-without-crowds
        
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        August 18, 2020 4:44pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Ron Mark as much as I detest the (expletive) was there and he is a Viet Nam Veteran. He got the wearing of his medals right this time.
        
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        August 18, 2020 7:48pm
- NoFax
  
  There was a movie mad last year called “Danger Close: The Battle of Long Tan”. It focuses mostly on Maj. Harry Smith who lead D Company. It is a decent movie and worth a watch to give a feel of the battle.
  
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  August 18, 2020 10:02am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I should look that up. Thanks.
    
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    August 18, 2020 12:27pm
- Brian Marshall
  
  The guns were so hot from constant firing in support of the Aussies, the Kiwis took to putting wet sacks on the artillery pieces to help cool them. The Anzac spirit was strong that day.
  
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  August 18, 2020 11:35am
oldpark

Not so long ago in Wellington . It was reported that a Cigarette Smoker had the gall to throw her Cigarette Butt onto the ground outside Te papa Museum .Yet there was a rubbish tin nearby .
The Butt thrower was identified as Newshub or TV 3 wee Liar with her almost daily fake news reports against National Party and putting the boot into them . Yes the same wee woman who gets the most attention from Comrade Ardern at Press Conferences . Most of her questions always get preference over and above her Press Gallery Colleagues . Comrade Ardern seems to take pity on her or because she is a bigger liar than even her . Just a perception on Control Freak Arderns” wee fake news sycophant .”Tovo O’Brien” .
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August 18, 2020 8:34am
- JackRabbit
  
  Indicates a complete lack of respect. Say no more.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:05am
- Fletch
  
  I once had a job with a co-worker who wasn’t from NZ (can’t remember his nationality now), but he had no hesitation in throwing his food wrappers out the car window while driving. I guess it wasn’t his country so he didn’t care.
  
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  August 18, 2020 12:33pm
Maggie Pie

Twitter bestie Ali Mau re-tweets……

Guy behind origin of viral rumor about the source of Auckland’s new Rona outbreak tracked down

https://twitter.com/DylanReeve/status/1295434339698618368
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August 18, 2020 8:36am
- RJ
  
  Good interview, thanks for sharing. Lot of respect for him for speaking up and taking ownership of what he did.
  
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  August 18, 2020 10:29am
  - RJ
    
    Herald are now running it
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357396
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:25am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      This is not the first time either!
      I’m sure that bloody Shane Curry reads my posts here.
      
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      August 18, 2020 12:25pm
      - RJ
        
        Are you sure you aren’t Shane Curry?
        
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        August 18, 2020 12:48pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        You’re not a member of the ‘Cavy Club’ by any chance are you RJ?
        
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        August 18, 2020 2:24pm
      - RJ
        
        Not unless they cook them up
        
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        August 18, 2020 4:35pm
Maggy Wassilieff

is it too much to expect our PM, or Min of Health to go and inspect quarantine set-ups?
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August 18, 2020 8:39am
- Doc Holliday
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  It’s the neoliberals wot destroyed the old Health Department and ignored the warnings from scientists a pandemic was inevitable.
  
  See the connection with climate denialism…
  
  MAGA
  Making Ardern Great Again
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:06am
  - JackRabbit
    
    When Cindy and Co knew about it late last year and borrowed 19Bn in preparation, were they in Denial or just Hiding it from the public in order to allow it to gain hold and create a Scamdemic out of a Pandemic?
    
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    August 18, 2020 9:09am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Careful you’ll be ranked with those that believe
      They never landed on the moon
      and
      FDR knew about pearl harbour before hand.
      
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      August 18, 2020 11:00am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Wouldn’t worry me. NASA are on record as saying that the Mars mission will be the first time they will have left LEO (Low Earth Orbit), and without alloys they recently developed, any journey leaving LOE would have required 2 feet of lead lining on every space vehicle.
        
        They may have gone to the moon, but I doubt it was in a Saturn 5 rust bucket.
        
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        August 18, 2020 2:48pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Brief history lesson for ya.
    Under Helen Clark the elective surgery waiting list exploded
    Under John Key/ Tony Ryall the elective surgery waiting list contracted.
    Under Jacinda Ardern the elective surgery waiting list is exploding
    Don’t even start on cancer treatment and patients going to Australia.
    
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    August 18, 2020 9:23am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      happens the world over anytime a socialist takes control of healthcare.
      
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      August 18, 2020 3:43pm
  - amospicton
    
    Make Ardern Go Away
    
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    August 18, 2020 10:44am
  - Humble Capitalist
    
    What are you talking about Doc? Seymour and Goldsmith were telling Comrade Ardern to get back from a cushy Fiji trip in late January to deal with the upcoming pandemic. Its all there on google for anyone to read if the want to know about the ‘gone hard and gone early’ lie
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:00am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    NZ had a Pandemic Plan at the ready in 2017…
    organised and brought out under National.
    
    https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/publications/influenza-pandemic-plan-framework-action-2nd-edn-aug17.pdf
    
    The CoL had not actioned or run any practices etc before Covid-19 hit.
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:01am
    - Ian Boag
      
      The version I heard – from someone in the services who was involved – was that the plan dated from the Clark government and the Nats gave it a polish. I think that’s why it is called “2nd edition”
      
      Not that the history really matters ….
      
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      December 18, 2019 5:35pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Use of isolation and quarantine for border management
      The modelling undertaken for New Zealand suggests that the most effective single intervention at the border to prevent or delay the introduction of a pandemic virus into New Zealand would be to minimise numbers of incoming travellers. Travel restrictions and the use of facility-based quarantine, supplemented by antivirals, would give New Zealand the best opportunity to restrict the number of cases introduced into the community and successfully contain the disease’s spread.
      Taken from p120
      p121 and 122 go on to list in detail a boarder response.
      Labour and JA did none of these things……Putting all of us at risk.
      
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      August 18, 2020 11:30am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Is that right Doc? My recollection is that the dismantling of the Health Department began in the later 1980’s under a Health Minister by the name of Helen Clark…
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:01am
  - RJ
    
    You could be right Doc, the health system under Ardern has been a disaster. Moving the line in who qualified for elective surgeries. People left suffering and in pain because of this, Ardern and her health minister have so much to answer for, as well as lying about vaccines and what hospitals and GP practises didn’t have the last few months
    
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    August 18, 2020 1:59pm
    - Nickc2
      
      and whilst holding them to account, don’t forget the accusations of human excreta oozing from the walls of Middlemore Hospital. Lies, Lies and more damned Lies. That’s the CoL’s MO described in three words beginning with el.
      
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      August 18, 2020 3:29pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Of course it is. Those activities are for the little people. Plus she does not wear a mask to protect her photogenicity, so, she can’t go. / sarc.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:09am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Yes they should and they should wear masks while doing it and appear on TV news.
  
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  August 18, 2020 10:05am
- Jimmy White
  
  they don’t lock them up in schools, thats why
  
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  August 18, 2020 3:37pm
  - Nickc2
    
    and Chippy’s mummy doesn’t know how to do it so how can she dictate what he does in this instance.
    
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    August 18, 2020 4:25pm
Tom Barker

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
This blog used to label Jacinda Ardern the part-time prime minister. Now it complains that she too frequently makes public announcements. Make up your miserable minds.
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August 18, 2020 8:40am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  she banned herself from jetting all over the globe for magazine photo shoots.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:52am
- Libertarians are right
  
  The public announcements are Labour party propaganda, she’s still not actually being prime minister.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:53am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Making announcements is only a part time job.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:10am
- JackRabbit
  
  She is still a PTPM because her time and attention is on her own agenda instead of being a real PM.
  
  Nine months in and there is still no tracking of the real mortality rate FROM Covid-19, which is Zero.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:11am
- RW Capitalist
  
  making public announcements is NOT being a PM.
  It’s electioneering disguised as a public service.
  What other results:
  economic…..disaster
  employment …..disaster
  health…….out side of covid19….disaster
  Covid19 response…..fail (after publicly claiming success)
  housing….6 fold increase in emergency payments and doubling emergency housing…disaster
  etc etc etc
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:17am
- niggly
  
  Making announcements seems to be the only thing she does so she is still the PTPM!
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:35am
- kloyd0306
  
  What, half an hour of soft, compliant-media questions per day plus policy announcements from kindergarten.
  She is still a PTPM.
  
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  August 18, 2020 10:28am
Loddenthinks

Oh my goodness – CNN (I know) has reported that the gap between Biden and Trump has narrowed to the margin of error – just 4%

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/08/16/politics/cnn-poll-biden-trump-august/index.html

This was also reported last night on One News (I know!!) with, from memory, something like 59% of those who said they were going to vote Biden listing the main or only reason as “He’s not Trump.”

Only 19% said they’d vote for Biden because of his policies, with the reporter delivering a piece to camera from outside Biden’s house, pointing to where he has been “holed up in his basement” and saying that sooner or later he was going to have to come out into the light.

For CNN and OneNews to be reporting this is frankly startling, and will doubtless cause one or two heads to explode around here. That reminds me, I’d better go to the shop to get something for dinner, dinner, dinner, dinner, dinner, dinner, dinner, dinner.
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August 18, 2020 8:40am
- Frank the tank
  
  Call it a lag effect from the BLM protests and the associated looting combined with the ‘response’ from democrat mayors and governors.
  
  Even more interesting the margin in swing states is 1%. This is surprising to say the least and if this close comes down to the campaign itself which should favour Trump.
  
  The tyranny of time should also ensure the continued move of Europe from elimination to management and then people in the US can reflect well we are not much different from everyone else re Covid19.
  
  DPF – The Empire Strikes Back?
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:01am
- CJames
  
  CNN are rubbishing their own poll
  https://dailycaller.com/2020/08/17/cnn-analyst-harry-enten-belittles-poll-donald-trump-joe-biden-neck-and-neck/
  Times are desperate
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:11am
- kowtow
  
  The more antifa, blm and other leftists and Dem mayors tear up law and order the more “centrist” and uncommitted voters will swing to the Don.
  
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  August 18, 2020 10:30am
- cmm
  
  “He’s not Trump” is a negative. These are very seldom compelling enough to motivate people off the couch.
  
  I notice the numbers chave been cleaned to remove all the “don’t know/don’t want to answer” voters which would likely include many Trump voters who just don’t feel like getting their car set on fire.
  
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  August 18, 2020 3:28pm
Nickc2

Question for the Winston appointed PM: Now that you have an additional four weeks before the election, does that mean you will now be able to announce your response to the Maori occupation of Fletchers land before the election? If not, why not!
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August 18, 2020 8:41am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The Police should have announced their response months ago–with multiple arrests.
  Who runs this country-activists?
  Do we still have law?
  The respect given to it gives no guarantee that there will be an election in October.
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:17am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    “ Who runs this country-activists?”
    
    Yes. Look at the Police condoning racist road blocks.
    
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    August 18, 2020 12:20pm
Maggie Pie

FACTOID:
It’s estimated that ‘Disposable Face Masks’ will create an additional 300k tonnes of waste by the end of 2020.

Where’s that Kiri Hannifin when you need her?
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August 18, 2020 8:58am
- Doc Holliday
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Yeah but the crematoriums will have more capacity.
  
  MAGA
  Making Ardern Great Again
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:02am
  - cmm
    
    How does people dying a few months earlier create vastly more bodies?
    
    At the moment the worst performing country is Peru who are currently getting 200 bodies a day from (or at least with) CV19. That is about 6 bodies per million per day.
    
    Normal death rates from other causes generate approx 37 bodies per million per day, so adding another 6 (ie 16%) is hardly going to overwhelm the system.
    
    Now that is assuming all the CV19 deaths are extra. We know that is not true since the vast majority were already sick and frail. The real extra death toll added by CV19 is going to be way less than 10% – hardly overwhelming the system.
    
    As for Making Ardern Great Again… You do know what the word “again” means? You’re suggesting she was previously great. When?
    
    Perhaps her greatness peaked when she was in charge of the chicken salt. Perhaps that condition should be restored.
    
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    August 18, 2020 3:39pm
RW Capitalist

Jacinda on the AMShow
spent 5 minutes Blaming social media (people) claiming they were bullying people sick with covid19.
When, by the same definition they (the govt,) are the worst bullies…ie we are not a team anymore, because people who question are no longer members of the team.
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August 18, 2020 9:02am
Jimmy White

Why RNZ allows Simon Marks the Chief Correspondent of Feature Story News to talk on morning report. He talks nothing but Democratic talking points which are 90% bull crap. No fact checking and the Presenters suck it up like its free ice Cream. FSN is a Liberal news company who spend 90% of their time running down Trump and the Republicans. Why does RNZ use it, ITS CHEAP
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August 18, 2020 9:07am
- cmm
  
  “ITS CHEAP”. I don;t think they care about that – it’s not their money. Look at how they spent our money to hire the Hager for some muck raking. Not frightened to spend when it’s what they want.
  
  Nope, it just fits with their preferred spin.
  
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  August 18, 2020 3:42pm
RW Capitalist

Before we go promoting “legalize cannabis”
Show the Greens this.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/cannabis-industry-not-green-youd-think-1-180973659/
VOC’s are a pollutant.
Water usage is huge.
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August 18, 2020 9:10am
- cmm
  
  Electricity for indoor growing is huge too. All that coal and gas needed to burn to make that isn’t too green.
  
  “The black market is not going away,” Carah says. “But to the degree that we can entice growers into the legal market, their agricultural practices can be regulated like other agricultural crops, which will go a long way to addressing potential environmental impacts.”
  
  Hah! How do you “entice” criminals into the legal market? Why would they go? You have to offer people something they want to entice them. What?
  
  The only reason they are still illegal is that it is more profitable to stay away from the regulations and taxes.
  
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  August 18, 2020 3:46pm
KevO'Brien

Children spreading virus last December? (Not unlikely.)
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/08/17/early-spread-of-covid-19-appears-far-greater-than-initially-reported/
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August 18, 2020 9:13am
Maggie Pie

And another Random Impertinent Question….

Does anyone know if Discovery Channel’s 2020 episode of ‘Shark Week’, which was to be filmed at the Chatham Islands, still went ahead during Covid Level-4 lockdown?

Asking for a Fisherman’s Friend.
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August 18, 2020 9:19am
- niggly
  
  Wouldn’t be surprised as I thought overseas film production people were exempt by the Govt as they are regarded as “special”!
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:37am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Asking for a Fisherman’s Friend.
  Sorry, in advance.
  Got a cold?
  Been tested?
  
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  August 18, 2020 9:42am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And I’m sucking on one as we speak.
    
    1. No
    2. Yes.
    Thanx for asking 😛
    
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    August 18, 2020 10:58am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Excellent
      But your love life really is none of my business.
      
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      August 18, 2020 11:08am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Maggie, he is not the sharpest tool in the shed
  In his words,“ came straight out of lockdown to this“
  Posted 6 days ago
  https://www.instagram.com/p/CDvjhGrDwNo/
  I guess gets an exception
  
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  August 18, 2020 10:32am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    HmmM…lucky it wasn’t mountain biking then 😀
    
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    August 18, 2020 11:00am
Rusty

The push back to a October election gives TV3 news more time to trash talk National. Tova OBrien’s muck raking stories on National MP’s is disgraceful.
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August 18, 2020 9:26am
Yvette

Image
I think Collins should now refrain from dropping Gerry further in the crap.
Gerry was doing a reasonable job of showing a little skepticism in not taking everything Ardern and Bloomfield spoon-fed the nation as gospel. As was Hamish Walker legitimate in his questioning until Megan Woods took him out with her dirty “racism” slur.
Collins further efforts just match Ardern’s apologetic “Expectations of a ‘hermetically sealed border’ to keep Covid-19 out are not fair” – 1 News

And a minor tip for Collins –
publicly burn that fucking awful National cap
so that whenever media editors re-use it to reinforce a silly-image, readers will know they are looking at an out-of-date photo.
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August 18, 2020 9:27am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Not burn: auction for a good cause.
  
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  August 18, 2020 12:51pm
RW Capitalist

I am writing a quote for a large (literally) product, to be bought from China.
It requires a Chinese engineer to oversee the installation, from the manufacturer.
A NZ engineering firm to install it to NZ specifications.
A translator to communicate between them.
I asked MBIE, what the requirements were, to bring this contracted person (I would pay his employer) over.
A: You will have to get legal advice from a lawyer, we only deal with employees.
Then who should I ask?
A: You will have to get legal advice from a lawyer, we only deal with employees.
But didn’t the govt. write the laws, that we have to obey?
Are they telling me that the govt. isn’t the best place to find out what the law is?
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August 18, 2020 9:40am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Having similar experience asking for them advice as small landlord who can’t install a heat pump (body Corp restrictions). They refuse to give a clear answer and say I’d need to take it to tenancy tribunal. So take myself to court to find out if other heaters are reasonable in that property!
  
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  August 18, 2020 12:55pm
- GJM
  
  This is the exactly the same crap as you get from MBIE if you ask questions about building regulations or the “deemed to comply” Acceptable Solutions – all of whcih are written by and managed by MBIE. They get away with it as the Minster and CEO don’t care.
  You could sack the lot of them and no one would notice.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:24pm
backster

The ‘Newsflash’ explanation as to the origin of the South Auckland Pacifica Cluster seemed to cover all aspects of the causes of the outbreaks. It has been officially condemned as rumour and without foundation, and yet in such a manner as to ensure no one takes responsibility for the condemnation.The Police Commissioner himself came out to rubbish some vague assertion about Clark Kent ,Arderns defacto husband, yet only an unnamed Police Spokesman denied the veracity of the ‘Newsflash’. Likewise Minister Hipkins condemned all rumour rather that this specific one.Meanwhile Winston was before the Aussie media stating that he was aware of the details of a major breach of our border security yet has since denied it was the same as the ‘Newsflash’ revelation. The Prime Minister and Hipkins claim not to know what Peters was on about and neither want to know. Bloomfield demonstrating the Governments policy of kindness didn’t want to round the infected South Auckland family up like sheep leaving them free to tour the Bay of Plenty high priced tourist spots in the middle of winter. Bloomfield confidently assured us that the origin of the infection would be established within a few days yet a week later no progress., It all seems to add up to Lies, half truths, and propaganda by all concerned right from the start.
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August 18, 2020 9:51am
Fisiani2

Anyone starting to feel the Stockholm Syndrome affecting many Kiwis..
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August 18, 2020 9:52am
Brian McDonald

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I don’t believe there has been a failure either. The failure has been to not tell the shrills to stop panicking. Health check and temperature testing before starting a shift (as reported by Ashley) is testing so I agree he is right.
Anonymous reports of people asking for tests are simply that, and in the meantime there is some ratcheting up which is probably unnecessary.
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August 18, 2020 9:53am
- rangitoto
  
  Sounds like you have been listening to the Ministry of Truth again.
  
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  August 18, 2020 10:01am
- mandk
  
  “Health check and temperature testing before starting a shift (as reported by Ashley) is testing so I agree he is right”
  
  It would be difficult to utter anything more obviously stupid.
  
  You obviously believe that there is no such thing as contagion by asymptomatic carriers. It happens with many diseases – TB, Hepatitis, influenza, meningococcal disease, etc.
  
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  August 18, 2020 10:15am
Nickc2

I trust that when Judith takes over the PM’s office she has an Army Improvised Explosive Device (IED) team lift the carpet before carpet layers replace it. There are squillions of devious little things that have been swept under it that will be self explosive if they ever see the light of day by a Free Press. I seriously doubt $50m plus will silence these things.
She should remind the team as an additional safety measure that if they come across a large inanimate object, don’t worry, its just Materia Turei.
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August 18, 2020 9:56am
- sooty
  
  I would say that labour will do a deep clean!
  
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  August 18, 2020 12:21pm
graham

Interesting to see this in the Herald (unfortunately it’s so-called “Premium”):

Covid-19 coronavirus: Staying informed in a time of misinformation

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/premium/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504669&objectid=12356428

The article/opinion piece mostly talks about conspiracy theories, how they spread, the dangers, Trump (what a surprise), and so on. Then right at the end is this list of “how to tell if it’s real or not”. Particularly interesting (remembering that this was published in the MSM) is the last point:

How do you know what’s real and what’s not?

– Is anyone else is publishing it? If institutional or public media aren’t it’s likely that’s because it isn’t true. Overseas, The Media Bias/Fact Check website is one place to look to find out whether a particular news source has a partisan bias. Others are Snopes and FactCheck.

– Did a post make you feel angry, disgusted or afraid? Intense feelings can be a red flag. Don’t share it before verifying its accuracy, it may have been intended to short-circuit your critical thinking by playing on your emotions.

– Is it hard to believe? “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”, astronomer and author Carl Sagan once said. Quite right.

– Did it confirm what you already thought? Acknowledge your biases and be extra critical of posts or stories you agree with. And be aware algorithms may be set up to show you things they think you’ll like – seek other perspectives.

– Bad spelling and grammar are red flags. If the author couldn’t be bothered to spell-check, they likely didn’t fact-check either. Or they may be using those errors to get your attention.

– Watch out for memes, they’ve been identified as one of the emerging mediums for propaganda, by inciting divisiveness.

– Keep your critical thinking hat on. Public figures don’t always tell the truth. Friends and family don’t always tell the truth. Sometimes people claim truthful stories are “fake news” because they don’t believe them.
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August 18, 2020 10:26am
- Classic Liberal
  
  “ – Bad spelling and grammar are red flags. If the author couldn’t be bothered to spell-check, they likely didn’t fact-check either. Or they may be using those errors to get your attention.”
  
  Good one – as if we hadn’t noticed the pitiful standards of MSM articles in the last years!
  
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  August 18, 2020 1:01pm
surfing

http://podcasts.joerogan.net/podcasts/josh-dubin-jason-flom

Illuminating podcast. We’ve had the odd miscarriage of justice in New Zealand, but , nothing like in the USA. I guess they have 70 times our population, but even so.
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August 18, 2020 10:49am
RW Capitalist

Heh Mods…ya there?????
What takes 2 hours for a small post???
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August 18, 2020 10:50am
- RJ
  
  If the mod lives in Auckland your post was likely caught at the Auckland boarder waiting to be approved to enter Auckland ?
  
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  August 18, 2020 2:43pm
JibberJabber

Truth Bomb!
https://twitter.com/kimKBaltimore/status/1295461903268040707
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August 18, 2020 10:52am
- Inandout
  
  Brilliant JJ.
  
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  August 18, 2020 11:20am
- Harriet
  
  ABSOLUTLY FUCKEN AWESOME!
  
  KIM KLASIC IS THE SMARTEST BLACK WOMAN IN THE US!
  
  EVERYONE NEEDS TO WATCH THIS!
  
  AND IT’S LOL FUNNY — AFTER ALL THE BLM BULLSHIT THAT’S BEEN SPROUTED!
  
  Well done JJ. 😎
  
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  August 18, 2020 11:55am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Reminds me of “The Elephant and castle” in London, post Labour and during “Red Kens” years as mayor.
  
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  August 18, 2020 11:56am
Inandout

On today’s Stuff begging banner:
‘when you need a straight answer’. Would I be cheeky to ask if you are answered by a gay and not a hetrosexual, would it matter?
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August 18, 2020 11:18am
graham

Wanting it both ways?

“Covid 19 coronavirus: Concern as Auckland lockdown cuts Northland off”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357253

A Northland mayor is calling for solutions to dwindling domestic tourism after the region was effectively cut off from the rest of New Zealand when a second wave of coronavirus hit.

Hospitality and tourism businesses are reporting a drop in revenue since New Zealand’s largest city went into level 3 lockdown on August 12 due to four people from an Auckland family testing positive for the virus.

There are also fears the region could run out of supplies if level 3 is extended beyond August 26 or if Auckland is moved to level 4.

Kaipara Mayor Dr Jason Smith said Northland wais being treated “unfairly” from other parts of the country that were also plunged into level 2 for two weeks.

Northland is “essentially at level 2.5” he said, because residents can’t travel through Auckland to visit other parts of the country, and other Kiwis can’t come here.

“No one from Northland can go to any other region, whereas if you live in New Plymouth you can go to Rotorua. We can’t. We’re cut off.

“We are technically blockaded.

“There are definite concerns for tourism and cafes because there are no people here from, for example, Christchurch, getting away from their cold winters which there were a couple of weeks ago.

“Those challenges are not only for the economy but for our wellbeing as Northlanders. We are now technically an island, but no-one in central government is acknowledging that and helping us with that.”

…

Cafe owner Janet Pope said Northlanders didn’t spend as much as Aucklanders, usually opting for a coffee and cake over a full lunch.

“Before Auckland went into lockdown we were doing quite well, but now that people can’t come through Auckland, it has affected us.

“If it extends longer the revenue will drop even further, there’s only so many times people are going to come out from Whangārei or the Bay of Islands for a look around.

“We’ve got such a small pool to draw from.”

Yeah, well it wasn’t that long ago that Hone Harawira was blocking people from entering the Far North in order to “protect their people”. Remember that, folks?

Maybe you should all get together and discuss what you want as a group. Do you want us Aucklanders, and people further south, to come up there and spend our money, or not?

Let us know what you decide. We’ll wait.
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August 18, 2020 11:22am
- Harriet
  
  Well said — hypocrisy of the highest order.
  
  NZ is democratic in some places and a dictatorship in others.
  
  Maoris need to be hauled before the courts and pulled into line.
  
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  August 18, 2020 11:31am
RJ

So to get information of clusters the media has had to file a pen offical information act. This is bad, things should not be covered up like this.

Details of the historical, but previously mysterious, cluster of 16 patients can now be revealed, thanks to an Official Information Act response from Capital & Coast District Health Board (CCDHB).
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August 18, 2020 11:23am
- Prince
  
  No wonder we get social media rumours when the Govt and public ‘service’ keep so many secrets.
  
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  August 18, 2020 12:12pm
Harriet

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12356768&&ref=recommended
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12356768&&ref=recommended

LOL —- this tells you how fucked the justice system is in NZ, and how to ridicule judges. 😎
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August 18, 2020 11:47am
- greybeard
  
  Exactly. He will be released in weeks and how will the judge explain to society if this man then hurts or kills someone ?
  
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  August 18, 2020 12:58pm
  - fernglas
    
    What was your idea to stop him?
    
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    August 18, 2020 2:31pm
RJ

Jacinda telling lies, no, who would of thought

National leader Judith Collins is coming to the House this afternoon armed with, what she says is, evidence that the Prime Minister is “entirely wrong” about her managed isolation staff testing claims.

Speaking to media this morning, Collins said she had been contacted by a number of Covid-19 frontline staff with stories that disprove Jacinda Ardern’s claims that staff were refusing to take Covid-19 tests.

NZ Herald
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August 18, 2020 12:18pm
ex-golfer

Well, well, well – a new case not connected to the current cluster.
Lo and behold its a worker at a quarantine hotel.
So after saying that testing of workers was not compulsory, workers are refusing to be tested (which JC will disprove in the House today), and mandatory testing of workers would impinge on their rights (but locking people in the homes apparently does not), a worker is suddenly found to have COVID due to testing now occurring, clearly as a result of border quarantine facilities failing.
Shambles is the correct phrase.
Wasn’t Commodore Biggles and Megan Woods meant to be on top of all this? Why are they so absent?
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August 18, 2020 12:45pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  same as when we had zero cases at the border, none whatsoever… untill the started testing.
  
  now the same with border staff, theres likely been dozens that were covid+ but the govt just happened to have dumb luck there was no full on mass outbreak of 1000s… yet
  
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  August 18, 2020 3:49pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Looks like the “rumour” that the virus came in through Americold frozen goods is a DUD!

Surprise, surprise.
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August 18, 2020 1:11pm
Maggie Pie

I’ll tell you what i did find a bit of a wurrie, was Stuff NZ reporting “…. that a visitor to the ‘Auckland Guinea Pig Show’ on the weekend had The Rona!”

Even more disturbing, was to discover there’s actually a dedicated ‘CAVY CLUB’ in the city, and it boasts hundreds of adult members 🙁

https://aucklandcavyclub.weebly.com
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August 18, 2020 1:11pm
rangitoto

I see Kim is banning pet dogs. According to the DM:

“North Koreans are ordered to hand over ‘decadent and bourgeois’ pet dogs for ‘restaurant meat’ ”

Own up all owners of “decadent and bourgeios” pet dogs.
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August 18, 2020 1:34pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Fortunately, mine is a Poodle, so doesn’t qualify 😀
  
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  August 18, 2020 1:50pm
- Inandout
  
  rangi, this is a sensitive subject when you see horrible videos of Asians skinning dogs alive; bastards.
  
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  August 18, 2020 2:06pm
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    or throwing live dogs into boiling water, makes them taste better apparently. was a vid of a golden retriever ill never forget the look on that poor dogs face 🙁
    theres a reason viruses etc start in asian countries… the sick lil bastards deserve it
    
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    August 18, 2020 3:52pm
    - Inandout
      
      And wimpston, China is of late experiencing horrendous flooding, dams bursting, farms ruined, food shortages, locusts, unusual snowfalls, cyclones and earthquakes. Then the WuFlu has reappeared and the CCP is getting restless with their leader. I find it hard to gather sympathy for that nation.
      
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      August 18, 2020 5:23pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        China is facing food shortages in the near future
        https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3097781/china-food-security-country-faces-grain-supply-gap-130
        
        Their Government is doing a big push against food wastage:
        https://www.scmp.com/tech/apps-social/article/3097628/chinas-biggest-food-delivery-platforms-act-after-state-backed
        
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        August 18, 2020 8:32pm
RJ

Perhaps with what is going on it would be better to wait until after this current lockdown to strike. You deserve the pay rise and far more, but timing seems wrong

The New Zealand Nurses Organisation (NZNO) will issue a strike notice this week covering some 3200 Primary Health Care (PHC) nurses and receptionist/administration staff across more than 500 practices and accident/medical centres nationwide.

The one-day strike is set for 3 September, but NZNO Industrial Advisor Chris Wilson says there is still time and opportunity to resolve the situation.

Scoop
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August 18, 2020 1:48pm
- ex-golfer
  
  Clearly thinking they can cash in on the public’s sympathy for their work in the current situation.
  But unfortunately it will backfire as a majority of the public are not stupid enough to believe the timing is suitable.
  
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  August 18, 2020 3:23pm
RJ

Well done Liam Kernaghan, and thank you for showing that this shit isn’t supported

When a National Party candidate saw a rival’s defaced billboard, he took matters into his own hands.

Liam Kernaghan has about 150 billboards around the new Taieri electorate, which includes a large part of the former Dunedin South electorate with the addition of South Otago.

Kernaghan, In Milton to put up a sign, saw someone had defaced a Labour billboard. A moustache and missing tooth was drawn on Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and glasses on his Labour rival, Ingrid Leary.

A cleaning agent was used to remove the pen marks from the sign, one of 20 he and his team of volunteers had recently cleaned from across the political divide.

Stuff
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August 18, 2020 2:35pm
- chukar
  
  RJ,
  All mates together,
  Now a one party Government?
  
  What has happened to democracy?
  
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  August 18, 2020 3:56pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/kapiti/122479286/kpiti-mayor-calls-for-paraparaumu-airport-to-be-returned-to-tangata-whenua
I see that Guru doesn’t want another term as mayor.
His opinion as to what should or should not be done with any privately owned land is best kept to himself.
There is too much ratepayer-funded interference in private matters in this country.
Stick with roads, water & drains, Guru.
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August 18, 2020 2:36pm
- Inandout
  
  grey, Kapiti is chocker with current or retired public servants and we all know the NIMBY principle. As for Guru he is walking a dangerous line here, especially as he replaced a Mayor who was chosen to replace the radical Jenny Rowan. The local iwi of course want the land for money making purposes, not unlike Ihumatao.
  
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  August 18, 2020 5:35pm
septic skeptic

Excellent statement by Seymour in the house today.
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August 18, 2020 2:41pm
I remember when

Just looking at the Swedish covid-19 death stats.
To 17th August there have been 5787 deaths involving covid-19.
Of those who died, 93% (5156) were 70+ and 96% (5555) were 60+.
Even in the 2,065,000 people over 65+ the number who died is less than 5500 to date.
It isn’t a question of letting people die – it is a question of testing our ability to maintain the bulk of the economy while keeping the vulnerable safe.
Not sitting on our hands, leaving people who statistics show are relatively unaffected sitting at home unemployed.
This not, should not be, about an election.
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August 18, 2020 2:45pm
- Ian Boag
  
  Your numbers look OK and hard to argue with, but ….
  
  maintain the bulk of the economy
  
  Do you mean restore inbound tourism/foreign students and get Air NZ flying again ….. ?
  
  relatively unaffected sitting at home unemployed
  
  A lot are tourism/hospo …. one of the family just had her windows cleaned by an Air NZ (ex?) pilot.
  
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  August 18, 2020 3:15pm
  - MCos
    
    Seeing as ‘remember’ hasn’t provided any source for his Swedish numbers I did a search and came up with this information that shows almost 11% of deaths were people under 70.
    Looks like approx 25% of deaths are in my age ranch. That’s nice to know.
    It’s worth remembering that the survivors don’t all return to full health.
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107913/number-of-coronavirus-deaths-in-sweden-by-age-groups/
    
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    August 18, 2020 5:28pm
  - Inandout
    
    Ian, I have heard tales of airline pilots working in supermarkets but never the cabin crew; wonder where they end up?
    
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    August 18, 2020 5:40pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Siouxsie Wile’s opinion of Covid-PlanB

https://sciblogs.co.nz/infectious-thoughts/2020/08/18/they-say-learn-to-live-with-covid-19-heres-what-i-say-back/

p.s.: For those who can’t read the F****ing obvious and wish to abuse me again on this blog…. NOT MY PLAN & NOT MY OPINION
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August 18, 2020 2:49pm
- Frank the tank
  
  The so called ‘expert’ on all things covid19.
  
  Another of Cindy’s Sunday barbecue group?
  
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  August 18, 2020 2:54pm
- Nickc2
  
  Oh F, here we go again. ‘Here in Aotearoa, our government…….’ A dopy sheila with pink hair can’t even get the name of our country right. That said, I don’t care what her qualifications are (assumed or otherwise), I for one don’t believe a word she says. Just look at the company she keeps.
  
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  August 18, 2020 2:58pm
- Lord of Death and Creator of Worlds
  
  I read it – a cluster of narcissistic tosh!
  
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  August 18, 2020 3:17pm
- ex-golfer
  
  Her assertion that Plan B means “learning to die with the virus” does not make sense, given the outcomes we have seen.
  
  Mortality rates are extremely low for those without pre-existing conditions or respiratory issues – 99% of people that have had COVID recover from it. This is despite modelers advising the PM that up to 60,00o NZrs were at risk of dying.
  
  She also takes no account of the social impact of continuing with a plan of elimination – increased welfare dependency, thousands of people thrown on the scrapheap, increased suicides, increased homelessness, many more out of a job and an economy that will not be able to afford the socialist wet dreams they desire.
  
  Plan B does not call for open culling of old people and people with existing conditions just because they will die anyway. It calls for isolating the vulnerable and at risk population, and letting the rest of the country go about their lives while maintaining common sense precautions personal health precautions and social distancing where possible.
  
  SW would rather keep people in fear – all in the name of a command and control strategy because, in her mind, she knows best and the rest of us should simply do what we are told.
  
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  August 18, 2020 3:20pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  If you can’t be bothered reading the predictable theories of Socksy, here’s her main point :
  
  “ Plan B: The alternative
  
  While the supporters of Plan B call it “learning to live with the virus”, I think it’s more accurate to describe it as “learning to die with the virus”. “
  
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  August 18, 2020 3:40pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  She still is talking about health, and doesn’t seem to appreciate economics or trade-offs.
  
  How do you eliminate a virus, if you also want to have free movement of goods and people. I notice she plays the sneaky trick of saying all we want open borders for is tourism. What about people who want to work and trade? What about people who want to visit family? What is wrong with wanting a normal life? We don’t lock the border for normal flu, or for bird flu, so what is so very special about covid?
  
  Her pretty chart is also pointless, as NZ relaxed its controls when we thought we had won. We are back up stricter that Sweden again, Sweden is now ramping down, their economy is hit, but not devestated, and the death rate is within norms for a year.
  
  Part of my biggest concern is that uncertainty about government behaviour and yoyoing between level 1 and 3 is worse than sticking at 2 where Sweden arguably is. Businesses know what they need to do, and can predict what government will do.
  
  If you were a butcher in Hamilton listening to the 1pm covid-porn show, would you buy in stock, or hire anyone?
  
  So, good on her for sticking with her belief in plan A. It doesn’t mean that Plan B is wrong, and cherry picking data to present her case does not improve my opinion of her analytics.
  
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  August 18, 2020 3:47pm
  - fernglas
    
    Can I make a point about this whole debate, and that is that it has been hijacked by a bunch of narrow-minded people who think it is all about a choice between lives and the economy. It is not binary. It is about what we decide to do for the benefit of society, and that is much more nuanced, offering as it does a range of alternatives and degrees of response. But that’s too complicated for discourse these days. Unless it is a pithy tweet or a soundbite it won’t be heard. Critical thinking and a degree of open mindedness are wasted skills at the moment.
    
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    August 18, 2020 5:12pm
- Jeremy
  
  This was my reply to her nonsense, not sure the comment will get approved though:
  
  Sigh, I am heartily looking forward to the day that the media starts to ignore Dr. Wiles, Dr. Baker, Dr. Hendy, Dr. Jackson and other seemingly out of their depth experts who have seemed to lost all sense of proportionality when it comes to Sars-Cov-2 and, instead, starts to interpret data in a rational manner. As the epidemic expires overseas in the next 3-5 months to background levels, the fear subsidies in the average population, and the public realises the economic carnage inflicted upon them with the epidemic still to run in NZ, this process will begin with the inevitable Royal Commission to follow. My studies were in Forensic Science but I’ll make I present to ensure this group is held to account for their destructive failures, and what is approaching the misleading of the public at this stage (particularly Dr. Baker and Dr. Jackson in Stuff and the Herald respectively).
  
  The IFR isn’t that hard to pin down for anyone who is numerate, i.e. all it takes is first year mathematics papers at university and the ability to analyse data to uncover the correct dominator. We now have literally dozens of PCR assays and serological surveys which show the IFR is ~0.1% to ~0.4% with a mean of 0.27%. Cherry picking one preprint with hysterical conclusions is sadly too typical of what has been presented by our inept epidemiological and modelling community in NZ over the last 5 months.
  
  Secondly, where is the peer reviewed evidence regarding long and serious health effects in large proportions of the population? We had this nonsense first start in April. It was Kawasaki disease then (debunked) and now this nonsense (at least this has some kernel of truth). Speaking to a doctor that has actually treated large numbers of Covid-19 cases, they advised that Covid-19 can cause thrombosis in a large number of serious causes, but once this was identified it has since been treated quite easily by making anti thrombotics a standard part of treatment after hospital admission – it has largely removed the threat of strokes. Additionally he said that there are some serious side effects to the lungs and to a lesser extent other organs after long term admission to the hospital, but this is not unusual and does not seem to dissimilar to other ICU cases he’s treated for very bad cases influenza or pneumonia over the years – which he added do often clear up, even after this level of seriousness, over the following year. He said these cases (i.e. of the type you highlight) are exceedingly rare and get reported on globally, just like anytime someone under 40 without a comorbidity dies. I get that your frustrated that the case for elimination is being shown to be hilariously flawed, as many of us have been pointing out since March) but have some scientific rigour and self respect.
  
  Lockdown is the cause of the overwhelming majority of the issues caused by this virus. For the mathematically numerate it is clear that before it blows out Sars-Cov-2 will claim between 1m to 1.5m lives, (in part, as almost 90% of those dying are suffering from co-morbidities) that on average have about 2 years of life left. The economic consequences of lockdown will claim hundreds of times the amount of quality years of life (QALYs). This is clear from analysis by numerous economists globally and our own government has reproduced such findings when the Productivity Commission looked at the cost in terms of lives of the extension of level 4. ONS data shows that in the UK lockdowns have claimed ~27,000 excess deaths over and above the ~45,000 recorded as Covid-19 deaths and the lockdown deaths are going to skyrocket and persist for decades due to the size of the economic decline.
  
  The lives and years lost due to economic decline are not visible as those due to Covid-19; they are the 22 year old who loses his job today and cannot find a new one for a few years, starts to have problems with alcohol, and dies of a liver disease at 55, instead of having a healthy family life and living to 75. It is the 45 year old Mum who needs a cancer drug in 10 years’ time that PHARMAC now cannot afford because we are forced into austerity due to trashing our national debt today, and so dies when she could have had 30 more years with her family.
  
  The blood of such people will, in part, be on your hands Dr. Wiles. I know you’re probably a nice person and don’t mean for that, but it doesn’t change the reality. We should simply do what we did in 1957 and 1968 (both epidemics more deadly than this one, 1957 probably 6-8 times) which is to get on with our lives as much as humanly possible and accept the reality of viral epidemics. In fact that is what our pandemic plan basically calls for, a plan written with cool heads in calmer times and people like yourself have never explained why we should ignore it.
  
  I knew you were out of your depth when you criticised Dr. Thornley as an epidemiologist specialising in diet (like almost every other one in NZ – given the usual risks we face) when you yourself are a bacteriologist and not a virologist (cognitive dissidence much), I’ve dealt with many, many academics such as yourself over the years – of average intelligence but work their backside off to get their Phd, and then think that this infers them intelligence they don’t otherwise possess. You are hopelessly out of your depth.
  
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  August 18, 2020 5:21pm
cmm

I see the nurses are planning a strike next month.

As much as I detest industrial action of this sort, I can see their point to some extent.

We can find $140bn to throw at this CV19 “response”, so why can’t we find, say, $250M to give each nurse another 5k?

And while we’re up how about streamlining residence for nurses? I spoke with a North American nurse in March who has been working in NZ for three or so years and is highly motivated to make NZ her home. She’s been having huge hassles jumping through all the residency hoops.

Perhaps she should start an (inaudible) franchise, then ILG would have her sorted in 5 minutes!
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August 18, 2020 3:19pm
- Tall Man
  
  Only if cindy tells him …
  
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  August 18, 2020 6:46pm
Inandout

These ‘educated’ souls merely assist Trump.
https://trends.gab.com/trend-feed/5f3b44304dec887547a328e9
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August 18, 2020 3:27pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Great comments. Worth a read ??
  
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  August 18, 2020 3:47pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Yup, gotta diss on the “deplorables” dontcha Imagine not owing a boat? They probably don’t even know what aragula is!
  
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  August 18, 2020 4:12pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

007 Goldenhair. Don’t watch if you are a sensitive TDS type.
https://www.facebook.com/TheWhiteRabbitMediaGroup/videos/362538094414364/UzpfSTE2NzUzMDYzNTY6MTAyMTIyMTU1OTU1Mzk4MjM/?source=bookmark
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August 18, 2020 3:45pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  That was fun!
  
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  August 18, 2020 4:16pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    ‘M’ was a bit pissed off!
    
    1 1
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    August 18, 2020 4:45pm
mandk

I heard at the weekend that the contact tracing app has now been downloaded 1.3 million times, but there was no information on how often it was being used.

Does anyone on KB know?

Before the recent outbreak I heard that there had been 500,000 downloads and that it was being used about 10,000 times a day. This implies that no more than 1 in 50 people who had downloaded it were actually using it.

That use rate is sufficiently low as to render the app completely useless, but it might be that the use rate has increased.
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August 18, 2020 3:50pm
- Batman
  
  Yeah the MoH will have useage data. They will either tell media when asked or via updates, or you can OIA it from them
  
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  August 18, 2020 4:30pm
- RJ
  
  Go to How much are people using the app?
  
  https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-novel-coronavirus-resources-and-tools/nz-covid-tracer-app/questions-and-answers-nz-covid-tracer#further
  
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  August 18, 2020 5:16pm
  - mandk
    
    Thanks.
    It looks like each person who has installed the app is using it about once every two days.
    
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    August 18, 2020 10:31pm
- JamesP
  
  https://www.interest.co.nz/news/106595/covid-update-director-general-health-says-12-new-cases-are-linked-existing-cluster-and
  
  Roughly 1.5 million users with 7 million posters scanned and 1 million manual entries. Then divide by however many days the app has been in existence…
  
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  August 18, 2020 5:45pm
I remember when

The prevention of access to universities by Chinese students was always impossible to justify – other than to show China who was boss.
Were we reacting to the strong anti-Chinese sentiment at that time.
They should have been allowed to isolate in university accommodation with adequate border control methods. The only proviso would be that the university had sufficient and suitable accommodation.
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August 18, 2020 3:55pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YuPdF9GnIU
We Chat Ban.

President Trump has threatened to ban We Chat. US transactions
with Byte Dance, and We Chat are being banned. He has the
power to ban foreign entities thought to be a security risk.
We Chat has 1 billion users. It’s a mix of Facebook, and Twit-ter,
and payment system. It’s useful spyware for the CCP. Any Chinese
company must turn over user data to the CCP government.
It checks all accounts for ‘offensive’ key words. Chinese people
can be detained or jailed for sending messages critical of the
CCP. China also wants to dominate global communications, and
Take over global information flows. Hence measures against Huawei
etc.
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August 18, 2020 4:38pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJimVpXtpwU
CCP Government Fears Clean Networks Action.

The Chinese government is afraid of the consequences of US
Sec of States Clean Networks policy. This policy affects five areas. Carriers
Apps, Cloud Storage, Cables, and Stores. Alibaba, Baidu, and Ten Cent are
major targets. Thirty countries have already joined the campaign.
Many international telecom companies have been listed as clean.
Some think it is a US version of Chinas ‘Great Firewall’. All
sectors of the Chinese community were stunned. Shares in
Ten Cent plunged. Chinas attitude to the US has softened markedly. The 50 Cent Army
has been stood down. They may be trying to buy time to develop a strategy.
We Chat is the best way for the Chinese diaspora to stay in contact with friends
and family at home. These measures by the US could have a devastating effect
on the Chinese economy. Gosh, wouldn’t that be a shame /sarc.
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August 18, 2020 4:38pm
Tauhei Notts

This morning’s Herald reported that additional checks will be placed on roads such as the BuckvilleRd/Harrisville Rd which cross the Auckland city/Waikato region boundary. I am sure they mean the Buckland Road, but my suggestion is that the checkpoint be placed at the bridge just on the Pukekohe side of Harrisville village. And the reason for that is that the bridge is over the aptly named Tutaekuri Stream. My limited knowledge of Te Reo tells me that a checkpoint at that stream’s crossing suits everything I have read about this clusterfuck.
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August 18, 2020 4:56pm
- Tall Man
  
  Woof woof, grunt grunt.
  
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  August 18, 2020 6:17pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Silly typing mistake. It is actually named after Shane Jones; it is the Tutaenui Stream.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:16pm
Captain Mainwaring

Just heard Cindy say ‘jepradize’ three times in one sentence.
Tragic that Morrinsville College couldn’t recognise a future PM when they had her.
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August 18, 2020 5:05pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Fugging frastrading
  
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  August 18, 2020 5:35pm
MCos

Donald Trump is pleased the US hasn’t been hammered with Covid-19 the way NZ has.
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August 18, 2020 5:30pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Snap.
  
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  August 18, 2020 6:58pm
mikenmildagain

So, Donald Trump speaks:

“Even New Zealand, did you see what’s going on in New Zealand? ‘They beat it, they beat it.’ It was like front page, they beat it, because they wanted to show me something”
“The problem is, big surge in New Zealand … it’s terrible.”

Ladies and gentlemen, the Leader of the Free World™
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August 18, 2020 5:37pm
- RJ
  
  And yet he is right, our idiot in charge was all over the place about we we COVID free, we never were because people were coming in with it. And because our idiot in charge never had protections put in place we now have the mess we do today.
  
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  August 18, 2020 6:36pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    So was he right to refer to our ‘big surge’ on a day when NZ recorded 9 new cases versus the USA’s 42,000?
    
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    August 18, 2020 7:51pm
    - RJ
      
      Yes he was, because unlike America we have been going around for 100 days acting like we had eliminated the virus oh look at us. And whether you like it or not and as a labour troll you won’t, what we have now is a big surge for New Zealand, and it is only going to get bigger because of the fact it went I caught and our boarders are a mess, but hey, you will spin it anyway you can to get your bad orange man spin
      
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      August 18, 2020 8:41pm
- Fletch
  
  Did we not have a surge? I think going from having none to a dozen or so a day is a surge.
  
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  August 18, 2020 8:19pm
Jimmy White

Prime News NZ” Michelle Obama Makes powerful speech.
Breitbart News: Michelle Obama gives gloomy address
‘things can get worse and if we want to end the “chaos,” we have to vote for “Joe Biden like our lives depend on it.’ Not examples. no facts, just whining.
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August 18, 2020 5:52pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It seems to me that Michelle Obama laid it out pretty clearly:
  
  “Donald Trump is the wrong president for our country. He has had more than enough time to prove that he can do the job, but he is clearly in over his head. He cannot meet this moment. He simply cannot be who we need him to be for us. It is what it is.”
  
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  August 18, 2020 7:05pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    And Joe Biden can?
    
    3 2
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    August 18, 2020 7:08pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Only America could come up with two candidates in their 70s, each of whom is reckoned by the other’s supporters to be senile.
      Biden is the return to normality, least unsafe candidate.
      
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      August 18, 2020 7:15pm
  - Fletch
    
    1. When Obama and Biden were faced with a viral pandemic in the form of the H1N1 virus, they failed totally, according to Ron Klain who worked under Biden at the time. So much so, that 60 million Americans got the virus and the CDC asked states to stop counting the numbers of infected. Maybe they hoped it would go away. According to Klain it was pure luck as they did everything wrong.
    
    I just have a couple things, I was in the White House in 2009-2010. I was working for Vice President Biden, I wasn’t involved directly in the H1N1 response, but I lived through it as a White House staffer. And what I will say about it is — a bunch of really talented, really good people working on it and we did every possible thing wrong and 60 million Americans got H1N1 in that period of time.
    
    And it’s just purely a fortuity that this isn’t one of the great mass casualty events in American history. It had nothing to do with us doing anything right. It just had to do with luck. And so if anyone thinks that this can’t happen again, they don’t have to go back to 1918. They just have to go back to 2009, 2010. Imagine a virus with a different lethality, and you can just do the math on that
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyA4ZqATW5M
    
    Oh, and after it was all over, the Obama Administration did not replenish supplies of PPE. That’s why there wasn’t enough to go around.
    
    2. Trump has done a hell of a lot to combat this virus. He has been proactive in engaging the private sector – car manufacturers to make ventilators, others to make masks etc. Even Kodak was supposed to start work on a vaccine. Speaking of vaccines, one of them is at a phase three stage of testing already which is unprecedented. And it’s all thanks to Trump’s push. ps, despite the claim of Cuomo that there weren’t enough ventilators and it was a big emergency to get some more, in the end they weren’t needed and the U.S is now shipping them off overseas.
    
    What have the Democrats done or even proposed? Nothing. Sweet F-all except to hand out money. They have no ideas. Just like in 2009 with Biden and Obama when they failed totally.
    
    Trump closed the border with China while Dems were calling him a racist for doing so. Pelosi even pulled a media stunt on February 24th and went down to Chinatown, asking everyone to come down and join her. Idiot.
    
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    August 18, 2020 8:12pm
RJ

Jacindy just can’t help telling lies, can’t believe a thing she says, has anyone she claimed is being tested actually been tested before this major cock up

A senior quarantine official has blown the whistle on the border-testing botch-up.

He says claims that staff were reluctant to be tested are not correct – and that workers requested a regular testing programme “multiple times”, but their concerns were ignored.

Newshub
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August 18, 2020 9:10pm

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