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August 20, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 August 2020

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General Debate

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Paulus Gnome

Today’s lie?

David Parker will release the Crown Law opinion on the legality of the v1.0 lockdown for public scrutiny.

Holding my breath here . . .
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August 20, 2020 8:00am
- Benedict Yu
  
  He said it is legally priveleged and the last National Government would not have released it either.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:15am
  - fernglas
    
    Privilege can be waived, and should be where it is claimed by the Government on a matter of such genuine public interest.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:00am
  - cmm
    
    HTF can that be legally privileged?
    
    We paid for the opinion, not the Labour party.
    
    There is nothing that needs to be confidential (eg. commercial sensitivity).
    
    This is just a lie on top of a lie on top of another lie….
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:41am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Nope, it is legal advice, therefore it is legally privileged. It does not have to be released.
      
      However, as fernglas points out, privilege can be waived.
      
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      August 20, 2020 9:45am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Nine long years of neglect.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:44am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      6 months of incompetence followed by 30 months of the same but, with more blatant lies, obfuscation, mis-speaks, frowny face . . .
      
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      August 20, 2020 10:17am
- Ruahine
  
  Watching any news on the TV outlets is such a pain.
  All I keep seeing is the ‘Gang of Four’ spouting on in their bullying and bossy tone accusing anyone they can find to put the blame for the own incompetence.
  
  Hipkins, Woods, Ardern, Parker.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:12am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    Cindy said the October election will go ahead no matter what.
    
    So this means if there is a significant outbreak and she doesnt lockdown as previously then the lockdowns were a massive bull shit and shes determined to win no matter how many lives its costs.
    
    She cant have it both ways and only her supporters who have their eyes and ears painted on will accept the situation.
    
    And that includes the fake MSM or about 99% of the total media.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:38am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Puff pieces will start to come thick and fast as the MSM sense that their fairy Princess is under trouble.
      
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      August 20, 2020 9:45am
      - kloyd0306
        
        Herald’s Fisher has already started.
        His Aug 20 article is a long-winded effort to promote Labour and Ardern.
        
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        August 20, 2020 10:57am
      - sooty
        
        What no mention of wee willy and little, oh, I forgot they are as much use as Twyford!
        
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        August 20, 2020 11:37am
  - Bob
    
    Frightening to realise that the ‘Power of Government’ is only in the hands of these four.
    
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    August 20, 2020 11:05am
    - Flossie
      
      The more I see of Hipkins the more I think he’s looking like a rabbit in the headlights. Not inspiring any confidence at all.
      
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      August 20, 2020 11:37am
- Gravelroad
  
  It’s now 4.06pm.
  You still holding your breath, Paulus Gnome?
  
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  August 20, 2020 4:08pm
krazykiwi

There was a fair bit of media comment when an Auckland student tested positive for Covid-19. Young people being struck down with this deadly disease. So tragic – right?

Lets look at the numbers.

There are approximately 290,000 secondary school students in New Zealand. If EVERY SINGLE ONE of them contracted Covid-19 then mortality statistics for this cohort (13 per 100,000) suggest that 38 of them would die of the disease.

Contrast this with New Zealand’s youth suicide rate. There are approximately 199,000 people aged 15-19 in New Zealand. Last year at about this time the officially reported rate for suicides in this age range was 73, which equates to 37 per 100,000.

So we have more young people dying due to suicide every day than if 100% of our students were diagnosed with Covid-19.
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August 20, 2020 8:01am
- Sigmund Freud
  
  Brilliant analysis.
  
  Now go to the Warehouse and buy crayons and paper. Then travel to Wellington and explain this to Ardhern and Bloomfield.
  
  Be warned: Bloomfield is an especially slow learner when it comes to medical matters. Despite studying medicine for decades his methods are identical to the techniques employed during the Black Death (1347-51) in Europe (masks, panic, lockups etc).
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:06am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    It is not a brilliant analysis. The whole point of the current strategy is to have zero cases, not thousands of cases.
    
    I appreciate that you think the situation in the US, much of Latin America, and now Victoria is of trivial concern. Yet their problems exist even with significant counter measures. Imagine if there were none. And Sweden is not a case of no measures.
    
    So, Mr Freud, I will continue to prefer the advice of Dr Bloomfield, Sir David Skegg, Profs Jackson, Baker and others, to your so called analysis.
    I would also note that both
    
    Labour and National support the eradication strategy. Judith has been very clear on this over the last week. So if this is the key issue for you, and you want a different strategy, you have to vote for another party, presumably Act.
    
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    August 20, 2020 8:35am
    - Sigmund Freud
      
      “The whole point of the current strategy is to have zero cases, not thousands of cases.”
      
      Fine.
      
      But at your expense Wayne as it is not achievable. Not mine.
      
      Disclosure: The first lockdown cost me $60,000. Additionally I had to help out 150 people both financially and emotionally.
      
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      August 20, 2020 8:51am
      - Unity
        
        I totally agree with you Sigmund Freud but no-one is comparing the stats with those who die of the regular flu each year. There will always be deaths from a flu – it’s just the numbers that are meaningful. Why aren’t we being told about regular flu deaths – are they being lumped in with the Covid figures?!!
        
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        August 20, 2020 9:06am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      no the strategy was to flatten the curve… nz didnt even have a curve we were flatlined and never had a problem to start with.
      
      2000 hospital beds emptied to treat 200 over 6wks but we were sold the tale of crowed coridoors full of thousands of dying patients.
      
      like anytime nz imitates the rest of the world we were a total joke.
      now go back to wearing your mask alone in your car.
      
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      August 20, 2020 8:54am
    - Local Miller
      
      Sorry Wayne, you cannot dismiss Sweden so glibly. Sweden has reached herd immunity with very few deaths. They have acknowledged that they made a mistake not isolating some of their elderly correctly, but they kept their children in school, and most business opened, focusing protection on those who are immune compromised. They had 5,800 deaths in a country of +10M, so fatality rate of 0.058%, and the majority were elderly or immune compromised. Currently, while the rest of the world is still living in panic, Sweden is “open for business” and they have one Covid death per day. Sweden has rewritten the concept of herd immunity because prior to this event there were no current outbreaks that have allowed for real analysis, and theory was that somewhere between 60% – 80% infection rates are required for herd immunity to take effect. Based on Sweden epidemiologists are starting to recalculate these numbers to as low as 10% – 20%. Also look at their death rate by month and you see the number of deaths was only up about 10% – 15% and has now dropped below historical averages. i.e. As sad as it is to say, many of those who died were already at a high likelihood of dying over this time or in the near future.
      In NZ, we are nowhere near herd immunity, and will never get there with the constant lock downs that we must assume will happen every time there’s another outbreak. And there will be more because we can’t keep our borders closed forever.
      NZ took a medieval and unscientific approach to this virus – lockdown! The scientific approach now even being touted by the WHO is to not lock down. We should have isolated rest homes and the immune compromised and encouraged those over 65 to self isolate or accept the risks. Encouraged everyone else to boost their immune systems with vitamin and get out into the sun and fresh air, but keep some social distancing. If you were feeling at all unwell, get tested and self isolate.
      Without a vaccine or herd immunity we have never and cannot eradicate a virus, it is simply not possible, and m-Bovis is not a reference point because we slaughtered cows to (almost) achieve this, where we are not going to slaughter humans. Almost is also not good enough. Even the diseases we think we have eradicated are still out there, and every now and then raise their heads, think Polio.
      One of the many reasons I will NOT be voting National is because they support the same useless eradication strategy. Tell Judith to start talking to some epidemiologists and using a scientific approach to this and other medical issues and I’ll maybe rethink my vote.
      
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      August 20, 2020 9:12am
      - IC5000
        
        Here is the latest on Sweden and things are not looking so good. It’s put out by that well known Stalinist propaganda mouthpiece ABC news Australia which wants to enslave your family dog so most likely you’ll discredit it out of hand without reading it because it doesn’t align with your worldview.
        
        https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/12570918
        
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        August 20, 2020 9:47am
      - bruceavon
        
        No Sweden are nowhere near herd immunity. It is currently 15%, and experts suggest in the US that 70% would have to recover from covid to eliminate it. So it needs to be massively higher than it is. Herd immunity seems to be a pipe dream for this disease.
        I applauded Sweden for their bravery in taking their approach, and at the same time I was glad it wasn’t us. But with economic analysis showing they have fared no better than their neighbours, I can’t say it is a great success.
        And any discussion about it here is purely for fanciful musing on blogs etc. The public are not interested, I would say you would get less than 5% support if you polled, and no party or politician are on board with it.
        
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        August 20, 2020 10:05am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        This Swedish dr believes the number of positive tests and even antibody tests don’t show how many had mild or asymptomatic covid and now carry t-cells. https://www.google.com/amp/s/drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/08/07/how-bad-is-covid-really-a-swedish-doctors-perspective/amp/
        
        “ COVID has at present killed less than 6000 in Sweden. It is very unlikely that the number of dead will go above 7,000. An average influenza year in Sweden, 700 people die of influenza. Does that mean COVID is ten times worse than influenza? No, because influenza has been around for centuries while COVID is completely new.
        
        In an average influenza year most people already have some level of immunity because they’ve been infected with a similar strain previously, or because they’re vaccinated. So it is quite possible, in fact likely, that the case fatality rate for COVID is the same as for influenza, or only slightly higher, and the entire difference we have seen is due to the complete lack of any immunity in the population at the start of this pandemic.
        
        This conclusion makes sense of the Swedish fatality numbers – if we’ve reached a point where there is hardly any active infection going on any more in Sweden, in spite of the fact that there is barely any social distancing happening, then that means at least 50% of the population has been infected already and have developed immunity, which is five million people.“
        
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        August 20, 2020 10:52am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        More evidence that people have had mild or asymptomatic infection in the UK and now have T cells. They never showed up in antibody tests:
        
        https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-wales-53764640
        
        “The company’s trials found some people who had coronavirus but tested negative for antibodies went on to test positive for T cells – meaning more people may have some immunity than previously thought – and for longer.“
        
        If T cell tests ever become available in NZ I reckon anyone who was sick in January or February should have one. I expect we will find some level of immunity, because the government won’t admit that they let the virus in far earlier than they began locking us in.
        
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        August 20, 2020 11:06am
    - barnacle bill
      
      Thank you Wayne.
      Correct Again.
      
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      August 20, 2020 9:42am
    - cmm
      
      “The whole point of the current strategy is to have zero cases”
      
      Rubbish. The strategy does not support that outcome.
      
      We might hope we get to zero, we might wish we get to zero, but there is no strategy behind it.
      
      May as well go out on a rainy day and just hope you don’t get wet.
      
      The real strategy is to set up theatre so it looks like they are doing something and it looks like they care.
      
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      August 20, 2020 9:44am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Bullshit Wayne. How much is this costing the economy? How much should we suffer to “eradicate” a virus, that will keep coming back?
      
      Your goal is futile, particularly given the level of administrative incompetence demonstrated – and that continues to be demonstrated (so aircrew will still not be tested, wonderful)
      
      So what is plan B? do you have a plan B? or do we just go in and out of lockdown until the last business expires?
      
      Why do 500 flu deaths, 650 suicides, 350 road deaths and thousands of people just dying of old age every year cause us not a whit of panic, but the risk of a couple of hundred ‘Rona deaths mean the world is ending?
      
      Why do we have a meaningless, context free daily ticker tape of context free numbers, and somehow think we are keeping score?
      
      Its like bloody McNamara and Vietnam bodycounts.
      
      The data from Sweden seems to be tracking back towards a normal year. A big spike, where many of the vulnerable may have died a few months earlier than normal, followed by a track back down. Does that point to something about how pandemics burn out?
      
      If National have boxed themselves into a corner on this with Labour, well then they are fools too.
      
      Yes I want a different strategy, one with less fear mongering, and less illegal use of police powers, thanks very much.
      
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      August 20, 2020 9:54am
      - igm
        
        National must have been very happy to see this guy get out of politics!
        
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        August 21, 2020 12:52am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      If the whole point of the current strategy is to have zero cases, then you must surely agree that it’s been a spectacular failure.
      
      What do we need – a better strategy, or a better implementation team?
      
      Regarding the advice you prefer to take, it’s worth noting that on many occasions the advice of many of these people is diametrically opposed to advice that others of your star chamber have given.
      
      We even have Bloomfield and Ardern arguing publicly about the best approach, and she’s supposed to be taking the advice of those very same people. Couldn’t run a bath, and if they did they’d forget to put the plug in.
      
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      August 20, 2020 3:13pm
- MCos
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  That’s about the most asinine comment I’ve read in a long time.
  Did you consider that those kids just might pass the bug on to their parents, grandparents, neighbours?
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:47am
  - krazykiwi
    
    If you knew anything about suicide you would know that it too is ‘infectious’. Notwithstanding my inverted 37/38 (mea culpa) I stand by my continued assertions that the mortality risk of Covid-19 does not justify the government response.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:17am
  - Grant
    
    No more asinine than yours.
    Of course those kids could pass the virus on. That’s what happens with viruses, and not just that particular virus, but all the other flu viruses that are responsible for the deaths of hundreds of kiwis every year.
    Perhaps you could tell us what your strategy would be, because hiding behind the sofa waiting for a vaccine, (given that vaccines for other corona viruses have yet to be developed as far as I know), is simply going to be ruinous.
    G
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:35am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    “That’s about the most asinine comment I’ve read in a long time.”
    
    Come on MCos, you must surely come back and read your own comments from time to time, so…
    
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    August 20, 2020 3:15pm
- Stu2
  
  You haven’t allowed for the zillion infected students infecting many others, who will have far higher death rates
  
  Look how one case in Auckland has skyrocketed
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:48am
  - Ruawai
    
    90 people out of a city of 1,500,000 people is hardly skyrocketing! 0.006% of Auckland city and 0.0018% of NZ with Covid and no deaths to date from this cluster.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:22am
- kloyd0306
  
  Cases continue to treated by the fear-mongering PTPM and by the compliant media as deaths.
  Meanwhile, influenza kills 400 to 700 people each year yet no lockdown. Weird.
  We are being scammed.
  
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  August 20, 2020 11:04am
- raven
  
  Krazykiwi, the rate of suicide in NZ also appears to be increasing under lockdown – though some want talk of this stopped. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122492193/reports-of-more-suicides-in-queenstown-highly-unhelpful-health-staffer-says
  
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  August 20, 2020 1:27pm
wimpston peeeders

what do you do when your lies have been found out and caused yet another big clusterf**k?

Why the same as last time of course, send in the military… you know the same ones I said were taking over to do the job last time, and for good measures we’ll throw in 2 old geriatric overseers to make it look like we’re real serious this time.

seriously you cant make this shit up, you dont fix incompetence by adding yet another layer of incompetence.
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August 20, 2020 8:04am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  ‘you dont fix incompetence by adding yet another layer of incompetence.’
  
  It is the labour way . . .
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:11am
  - Ruawai
    
    I am losing count, we now have in charge:
    Ardern, Bloomfield, Hipkins, Woods, Webb, Coster, Simpson, Roche and the NZ Defence Force. They can now all conveniently say it is not their area of command and deflect to someone else, but surely at the top and ultimately responsible is Ardern.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:30am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      if all those have failed or are unaccountable then the blame lies soley with jacinda.
      
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      August 20, 2020 9:56am
    - Flossie
      
      She’s the one on international TV news, magazine covers and so on, basking in any glory that’s going.
      
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      August 20, 2020 11:40am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Somehow it will be Nationals fault.
      
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      August 20, 2020 4:17pm
- Tomtoddy
  
  Yep, we started with the police being responsible for security, then the army, then the airforce, then the police again and back to the army.
  
  All that tells you is that the problem is higher up – whoever it is calling them in.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:29am
  - pjay
    
    YES! It seems as though the “experts” – health, Police, Army … really don’t have the heart for it – and have been politicized and weaponized to scare the hell out of a society that has been weakened by 50 years of man-bashing and is now a bunch of cucked sissies, who if they speak up are carted off to jail – and now we are responding to a bunch of silly little girls crying about their lack of “safe spaces” (remember that!) and calling man-holes man-holes …
    
    I’m not a fan of David Clark but it is my opinion that he was against the early decision by caucus to lock down and for that crime was exiled to his home and proceeded to flip the bird to the COL by riding around! It’s a start I guess.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:29am
  - Akarak
    
    Why the emphasis on paying the living wage?
    No doubt this will include the necessary adjustments to allow for ranking grades for all members of the Defence Force.
    In the meantime you tell approx 600 privately employed security personnel to find alternative employment.
    That’s a great policy to have when you’re spending billions of dollars to keep other people working.
    And if you want further evidence of Covid Cindy’s ability to produce a cohesive policy – the Australian Government have stated that it will be mandatory for every Australian to take an approved vaccine should one become available. Exemption will only be allowed on appropriate medical evidence supplied by a doctor.
    Cindy says it will not be compulsory in New Zealand.
    If that’s the case it should be interesting to see the Australian’s reaction at the border!
    The COL have reinforced the fact that they have no ability whatsoever to put together any plan that will allow them to extricate themselves from the mess they have created.
    How embarrasing when you have to take advice from two ageing political hacks from the Helen Clark era.
    Finally the High Court has now established that the placement of the country into the initial lockdown was illegal but then decides that it doesn’t really matter.
    Perhaps they could supply a list to the public of other laws that will be dispensed with such largesse. Failure to do so could place the public in jeprady.
    
    BEAT COVID. ELIMINATE LABOUR.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:55am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      cindys only saying vacination wont be compulsory because doing so would ensure a labour loss.
      wait untill late october if she wins election it will become mandatory and so will a revolution against the govt.
      
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      August 20, 2020 10:56am
    - IC5000
      
      > the Australian Government have stated that it will be mandatory for every Australian to take an approved vaccine should one become available.
      
      Scomo backtracked on this fast due to twitter rage from 5G conspiracists.
      
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      August 20, 2020 1:17pm
- kowtow
  
  This is at least the third attempt at sorting this ( Commissioner Bush and Co , Biggles and Woody ). So much for go early go hard . And if the PM can be taken at her word , all her energies have been focussed on the plague , what’s she been doing , other than spinning ?
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:31am
  - Sigmund Freud
    
    Spinning?
    
    More like rocking the baby to sleep.
    
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    August 20, 2020 8:53am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Spinning so hard we’ve been able to hook her up and take Manapouri off-line!
      
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      August 20, 2020 9:58am
- Clyde
  
  The interview with Minister Mark on the military on Moaning Report was interesting – ignoring his bumbling, ill-thought ramblings about “his” military – he did say that he was aware of many breaches within the isolation hotels of inappropriate mixing, drunkeness etc etc. It wasn’t picked up by the motormouth interviewer as she was too busy not listening, but if breaches within the hotels are common knowledge within the cabinet then time for Judith et al to ask some questions round this in the House. And speaking of which, why is Mallard looking like he is suffering from a hangover or lack of sleep? He looks as though he is out of it.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:46am
- Akarak
  
  Bumper sticker for 2020:
  
  BEAT COVID. ELIMINATE LABOUR.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:51am
  - amospicton
    
    Be kind – resign.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:51am
- Nickc2
  
  Yes, I’m appalled that they should roll out a couple of old Labour has-beens and inform us mere peasants that this is going to fix all their fuckups.
  Lets face it, this whole fiasco could have been avoided if Cindy and her corrupt mob had done what they said they were going to do from the beginning, They should have put the military and Dr. Ashley in charge from the beginning and let them take charge implementing Government policy.
  Instead, Cindy put various ministers of her Government in charge of things they know nothing about whilst knowing full that like herself none of them have any managerial expertise whatsoever. Even her appointed Attorney General couldn’t get the legal stuff right.
  IMHO, the Police should have only been tasked with carrying out their normal duties to ensure legal aspects of policy were complied with instead of assisting Maori radicals with their illegal road blocks. The police should also have confirmed that what they were required to do complied with the law in all respects.
  What a cluster fuck the whole thing’s turned out to be, not to mention the financial implications on people, businesses and the national economy as a whole.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:37am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    No one seems to be trotting out Mike Bush.
    
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    August 20, 2020 4:25pm
Tony Stuart

Interesting story from Jared Savage at the Herald about the man who broke into an MIQ hotel in Auckland and stole an Aviation Security laptop…

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357971

It happened in July, but the story has only just now leaked out; funny that!
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August 20, 2020 8:07am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  May be $50M is starting to dry up a bit???
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:11am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Most journalists resemble Bangkok street workers – they get on any sort of bandwagon.
    
    But don’t worry there some sop stories in the trading insolvent publication if you are that way inclined. Remember it’s no ones fault and the government is the one source of the truth.
    
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    August 20, 2020 8:39am
    - LTA1955
      
      ?????
      
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      August 20, 2020 10:16am
- kwkiwigirl
  
  Nzh want to make the contest as close as possible as a clear cut winner from the outset doesn’t attract eyeballs. Agree that Nzh seem to be doing an about turn on Ardern. I’m guessing this will only last a couple of days and then we will be back to all the flattering photos of Ardern, in our faces again.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:36am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  And this govt tries to stop nasty rumours from starting…
  
  They don’t seem to have any understanding of how they start
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:42am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  That ‘homeless’ connection seems to come up again too…
  
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  August 20, 2020 10:57am
Stu2

Megan Woods didn’t say much in the press conference two days ago, but she did say testing the quarantine hotel staff was a backstop to the PPE and processes they have introduced.

Sounds like the govt’s test plan has been diluted in the field – too hard to do, and anyway we are doing x, y and z

The backstop position looks really silly after the positive hotel worker, and other hotel maintenance workers going unprotected to inhabitated isolation rooms to fix things or deliver things.

People don’t always follow processes, despite what the management thinks
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August 20, 2020 8:07am
- alex Masterley
  
  The plans we hear about are classic cases of making things up on the fly do deal with problems that occur on a daily basis. it is whack a mole in reality.
  As far as I am concerned it shows a lack of forethought and planning by our political leaders and senior public officials.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:19am
Thought Criminal

L ies
A bout
B orders
O nly
U ndoing
R ecovery
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August 20, 2020 8:07am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  It has not dented their popularity even by 0.00001% So what is the issue here bro?
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:10am
  - Frank the tank
    
    I disagree. Why all the mea culpa this morning and the “we aren’t going to level 4” horse shit yesterday? Squealer has realized there are suddenly a lot more Benjamins out there this time around.
    
    Still with over 40% of the population mental midgets don’t expect a different result – just some respectability for Jude. Kinda like the Warriors getting a couple of consolation tries at the back end of a 30-pt drubbing.
    
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    August 20, 2020 8:33am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Brilliant example with the Warriors! I love it.
      
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      August 20, 2020 10:00am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    You just wait till election night–seen this false, misguided hope before.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:45am
    - Frank the tank
      
      As have I. As have I……
      
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      August 20, 2020 10:32am
- LTA1955
  
  ?Excellent
  
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  August 20, 2020 10:19am
Stu2

Anyone noticed the TV journos adjusting mask positions by fiddling with the front of them?

That’s dreadful. If masks have filtered out any virus particles where do you think they will be?

We need a campaign on how to use masks, especially if they become part of a level 1.5
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August 20, 2020 8:10am
- ldypen
  
  Yep.. Why are they wearing masks anyway?
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:23am
- Frank the tank
  
  bahahahaha – gold.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:26am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  half of them give up and just take them off.
  
  face it theyre muzzles to prevent talking and nothing to do with stopping a virus.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:31am
  - dave_c_
    
    I’ve read that the dictate to ‘wear a mask’, is exactly that Wimpston, and furthermore indicates ‘subservience’ (read acquiescence – to accept something reluctantly but without protest) to those who are managing our country – under the direct control of the NWO agenda.
    
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    August 20, 2020 10:03am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      yup, theyve been softening the public up to mask wearing for 5+wks now so I see it as inevitable.
      Question is will the gustopo enforce it to the degree other countries have?
      I for one will never comply, I didnt comply with lockdown and I certainly wont be wearing the lastest sheeple must have accessory
      
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      August 20, 2020 11:00am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh Grief..
  Haven’t the Journos been reading/listening to Siouxie?
  https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/news/2020/04/07/face-masks.html
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:32am
  - Stu2
    
    Nobody does
    
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    August 20, 2020 8:34am
  - Clyde
    
    That self-opinionated, self-promoting pretentious academic who only seems to be able to parrot what the epidemiologists have already said? Whats the betting she will be appointed to this new committee?
    
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    August 20, 2020 8:49am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Looks like Winston has finally twigged to my idea of quarantining folks away from centres of population
      
      “You have your biggest city in the country, we’re bringing people into there, threatening the huge population. We could have isolated properly and ensured people were safe and we were not endangering the population of the country.”
      
      Peters said there are a number of army bases that could be used, naming Whangaparaoa, Ohakea and Waiouru, and the cost would be far less than it is to house people in hotels.
      
      “We have got the facilities, we have got the land and we have the soldiers. The cost put against the hotels could be $1 to $5,” he claimed.
      
      https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/20-08-2020/live-updates-august-20-the-court-got-it-wrong-on-lockdown-legality-peters/
      
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      August 20, 2020 9:37am
      - Ruawai
        
        Especially important to have facilities away from cities now we seem to be getting people returning to NZ that have a few behavioural problems.
        
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        August 20, 2020 9:50am
      - Nickc2
        
        Having lived on military bases for a large portion of my life, they are not exactly what any civilian would pay $3k for a couple of weeks.
        Room service is out of the question. Dining halls are the go. Ensuites are out of the question. Try a long walk down a corridor to a communal bathroom. Bring your own radio, TV and ironing board and iron etc. Central heating, what’s that?
        Meanwhile. large Hotels currently being used go broke due to no tourists.
        Ron Mark should know better.
        
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        August 20, 2020 10:40am
      - IC5000
        
        > Having lived on military bases for a large portion of my life, they are not exactly what any civilian would pay $3k for a couple of weeks.
        
        I pointed this out to Maggie but she keeps banging on about it. Must have some kind of weird fixation. Maybe she could spend a month in a barracks situations and see if she has changed her mind.
        
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        August 20, 2020 1:23pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Maggy, Peters talks about a lot of things, most off the top of his head, the rest out of his arse.
        As I’ve outlined, military camps/bases are in a large part not fit for civil habitation and most not at a rate of $3k for a couple of weeks. They are more akin to Backpacker accommodation with no shared rooms/cabins. Peters mentions Waiouru Military Camp. Well that is largely run down now and is only used for exercises as of 2018. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11618341
        These days, most military personnel live off base and to the best of my knowledge there is very little unoccupied accommodation (such as it is) on base. However, Ron Mark should know more about this than me.
        Did it perhaps cross your mind that Peters is just grandstanding for election purposes (bearing in mind my first paragraph).
        
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        August 20, 2020 3:09pm
    - amospicton
      
      Yes, and notice her opposition to ScoMo’s plan to vaccinate all Australians? The reason for her opinion is 100% because he’s a Tory. She’s so partisan it’s ridiculous.
      
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      August 20, 2020 9:55am
    - Frank the tank
      
      But she has purple hair and she’s an associate professor – remember 1 source of the truth.
      
      Interesting when you do a little digging who she is associated with. Cam Slater has an excellent post on it
      
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      August 20, 2020 10:35am
- Tomtoddy
  
  Robertson will allocate $10 million for such a campaign and Ardern will front it. Nothing political mind you. Like the 1.00pm updates… nothing political.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:33am
- Mummy
  
  Yes last night one guy even had his nose sticking out the top.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:47am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  I must say that Paddy Gower is much better looking in a mask.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:49am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Quite so; he has a great face for radio!
    
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    August 20, 2020 8:57am
  - herb1
    
    He looks even better in a full face helmet
    
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    August 20, 2020 8:59am
Ford Prefect

Is there a correlation between people wearing a mask and Jacinda fans?

Does this make for a cheap and easy poll.
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August 20, 2020 8:11am
- mandk
  
  I hope there is a correlation.
  
  About one third of people using the Hutt Valley line are wearing masks.
  
  And about one in twenty is scanning the QR code.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:48am
  - Brian Marshall
    
    Or are some of those people just putting their phone up to the QR code thing and just doing the motions???
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:46am
    - mandk
      
      Probably.
      I saw someone yesterday holding their phone up to an information poster about COVID, instead of the QR code itself.
      
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      August 20, 2020 10:01am
      - sooty
        
        Just wave your old dumb phone in front of the QR code just like everybody else and carry on!
        
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        August 20, 2020 11:48am
G152

Accidentally heard John Campbell little rant and waffle session this morning before I could get to the remote.
Used to be a time when interviews were to find out what the interviewee thought or believed rather than what the interviewer thought or believed.
Time to shut the fake news down and find some other way to inform us of important events with the politicals removed
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August 20, 2020 8:13am
I remember when

Article from the UK: “Soya Milk will cost the Earth, Vegans warned.”
Vegans should stop drinking soya milk in order to save the rainforest, the Sustainable Food Trust has said.
The Trust report argues milk from cows- especially cows traditionally grazed on grass – is much better for the planet.
The Amazon rainforest is suffering great losses due to soya production.
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August 20, 2020 8:14am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And let’s not even discuss Almond Milk …
  https://sustainability.ucsf.edu/1.713#:~:text=The%20main%20issues%20associated%20with,the%20world's%20almonds%20are%20grown.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:36am
- Dougal10
  
  An inconvenient truth
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:40am
- emmess
  
  Does that mean no more soy boys?
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:48am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    the man bun will always be a give away. the soy effects will be still evident for a couple of generations.
    
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    August 20, 2020 8:59am
- gravedodger
  
  Link? When
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:07am
wimpston peeeders

you watch this crooked govt and saint cindy give be great and give nz freedom back by going to lvl 1…. which is really going to be lvl 2 with spin.

cindy knows shes losing votes fast by holding the whole of the country in lvl2 so ashers has been order to “keep moving” the requirements, social distancing and mask wearing is likely to be added to level 1 restrictions.
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August 20, 2020 8:14am
- Dougal10
  
  Why was the south island even put into level 2 . It obviously all about power and control of the sheeple.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:43am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    1. the govt didnt and still dont have a clue whats going on in nz, the focus is in NI and its likely brooding down here right now but will take weeks to emerge when someone finaly gets sick enough.
    
    2. to remove aucklands freedoms and no one elses would have been slaughter in the polls.
    
    3. cindy wants to be saviour of the WHOLE of nz not just 1.3mil aucklanders. sharing misery is the nice kind communist way
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:03am
  - cmm
    
    To make things seem “fair” for Jaffas.
    
    If Auckland has been put on L3 and the rest of the country on nothing then there would be far less compliance than there is.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:50am
    - Ruawai
      
      So she can lower the levels for all NZ next week and be our saviour once again.
      
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      August 20, 2020 9:53am
Yvette

Peters wants a new ‘Border Protection Force’ reporting to one senior Cabinet minister, who in turn reports to the Prime Minister and Cabinet.
“Patchwork responses and blurred responsibilities must be rejected. Clear lines of accountability will be drawn-up, speed of response will be measured, and most importantly accountability measures established.”

ACT leader David Seymour has accused Peters of “headline hunting and grandstanding” with the release of NZ First’s new policy.
“If a new border protection force is ‘a major priority’ for Mr Peters, he should have said so in Cabinet, maybe just once in the past six months,” Seymour said on Wednesday.
“If Mr Peters’ idea has merit, why didn’t the Government he’s been part of for three years take it seriously? Perhaps he never raised it? Once again, it is too little too late from a man who’s had his day.” [1]

Peters, insisted on an item in the Coalition Agreement to admonish the last Government for McCully’s outside-of-Cabinet decision on UN Security Council resolution 2334, but Winston himself reputedly horse-traded oil and gas exploration for Greens support of his paranoiac wake-jumping bill outside of Cabinet, and only days ago pushed his covid rumour to Australian television before discussing it with Cabinet ministers or the Prime Minister. In between, his lack of Cabinet discussion has seen him hang Little out to dry at the 11th hour on several issues.

Meanwhile Peters may be right in one aspect : “a single agency to be created with a clear-eyed focus on border control”

But that may stem from ex-Health Minister David Clark making a mockery of his position in the first Lockdown, and Ardern claiming him as still essential back then, not wanting “disruptive” change at that point. But since finally accepting Clark resigning as a self-diagnosed distraction, she replaced him with Hipkins – already over-loaded with enough portfolios, but her having little other “talent” available – and adding Megan Woods, and the military guy to support Bloomfield and herself – she now being the real current Minister of Health.
Their responsibility in health is as useful as Winston is to Cabinet.

In this manner of handling covid, the Government is still operating in those patterns that caused the demise of Kiwibuild (as perhaps reflecting isolation accomodation not fit to purpose) lifting people out of poverty (throwing endless money at the problem rather than targeting), Auckland light rail (not a clue of the ultimate aim of the whole exercise) and Shane’s trees (fudging numbers in PPE, tests and the flu vaccine).

The big difference may be that their earlier record of behaviour and delivery (or generally the lack of either) won’t have killed a great many people.
But their present blunders do have the potential to do just that.

Einstein reputedly said “We can not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them”
That was what the Winston-chosen Labour Government needed to realise in regard to their total lack of policy deliveries, prior to covid-19.
It is now more crucial of course that to survive covid-19, they need to do better with it, than they did with Kiwibuild.

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/new-zealand-first-wants-quarantine-shifted-to-military-facilities-long-term-alternative-to-lockdowns.html
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August 20, 2020 8:15am
- mandk
  
  I don’t know why the media engage with Peters.
  
  He’s Deputy PM, but he denies collective responsibility for all the fuck ups.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:50am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Yes – if you’re 2i/c of the entire country but you absolve yourself of *any* responsibility, you should be jeered whenever you show your pathetic self in public until you quit, get voted out, or move into a rest home for the terminally fuckwitted.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:18am
- Ruawai
  
  I think NZ First is trying trying to get up jump on Nationals border policy coming out today and trying to guess what National will do.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:54am
I remember when

In the world of covid-19.
Belgium 859
Peru 807
Spain 613
UK 609
Italy 586
Where is the proof that Sweden would have done any better other than by greater care of elderly?
Sweden 573
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August 20, 2020 8:17am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  How about Taiwan?
  7 Deaths
  Population – 23.8M
  
  No oppressive lockdowns.
  
  Like them we are an Island nation. We have a quarter of their population but 3X their deaths.
  Unlike Taiwan, we are far distant from the origin of the Covid-19 outbreak.
  
  What has Taiwan got right, that we haven’t?
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:55am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    what has taiwan got right that we havent?
    
    Real leaders and intelligent ministers.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:05am
    - sooty
      
      Maybe the media are truthful as well!
      
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      August 20, 2020 9:44am
    - Ruahine
      
      This woman.
      
      https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTsai_Ing-wen&psig=AOvVaw1P69UKJSAWkTDu6ckKfA5S&ust=1597965953520000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAIQjRxqFwoTCKibkpq1qOsCFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD
      
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      August 20, 2020 11:27am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    They stopped the mainland Chinese flying in whilst the rest of the world welcomed them with open arms, Italy even had “Hug a chinese day”.
    They cut the head off the dragon first.
    You are not distant Maggy, a China Southern Flight still arrives in all eastern Australia airports daily, as it has right through all this.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:32am
    - Hollyfield
      
      China Airlines & China Southern are both flying into Auckland. China Airlines has a flight arriving tomorrow morning, and China Southern has one arriving Saturday afternoon, and they both have flights arriving on Monday. China Southern also flew in and out of Auckland all through Level 4, at a time when our borders were apparently “closed”. I never found out whether they were delivering people or freight during level 4, but for the cabin crew who travelled in and out with no testing required in NZ, it doesn’t matter what their “cargo” was.
      
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      August 20, 2020 10:13am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Here’s how the argument always goes:
    
    “NZ is doing the best in the world”
    “Err, no it isn’t there are at least 20* countries doing better”
    “Ah, but most of them are small countries”
    “Taiwan. Vietnam?”
    “It’s not a competition”
    
    *Uganda, Vietnam, Tanzania, Taiwan, Burundi, Myanmar, Papua New Guinea, Mongolia, Eritrea, Cambodia, Gibraltar, French Polynesia, Bhutan, Seychelles, St. Vincent Grenadines, Macao, Saint Lucia, Timor-Leste, Grenada, New Caledonia, Laos, Dominica, Saint Kitts and Nevis, St. Barth, Greenland, Caribbean Netherlands, Falkland Islands, Vatican City, Saint Pierre Miquelon, Anguilla, Thailand, Mozambique, Sri Lanka, Rwanda, Jordan, Botswana, Fiji, Western Sahara, China, DRC, Benin, Angola, Burkina Faso, Niger, Togo, Nepal, Ivory Coast, Malaysia, Guinea, Syria
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:36am
    - cmm
      
      Sure, but in many of those countries the median age is far lower. Median age in Africa is about 16.
      
      CV19 is, almost exclusively, an old person’s disease. It only really impacts places where the healthcare is good enough to get people into old age.
      
      Therefore it only makes sense to compare on a like for like basis and that eliminates almost everything else.
      
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      August 20, 2020 9:56am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Kind of missing my point there.
        
        The point is that the competition angle is fine when it seems to favour NZ being wonderful and suddenly it’s not a competiton when the facts are pointed out
        
        PS Taiwan’s median age is 42.5 & NZ’s is 37. You make my point for me without realising it. There is no measure of deaths by which NZ is “doing the best in the world”
        
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        August 20, 2020 10:56am
      - cmm
        
        There are far too many variables to make comparisons, but the NZ govt would have you believe it is all down to awesome leadership. Even when Oz was doing better than NZ we were fed a line of bullshit that NZ was doing better.
        
        Even if you control for all the variables (age, race, season, nutrition, climate, living density, public transport, etc etc etc) there’s still a huge dose of luck involved.
        
        For example during the Spanish Flu, NZ did way, way worse than UK, but in the Asian flu it was the other way around.
        
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        August 20, 2020 12:28pm
      - septic skeptic
        
        There is also a big variation in how deaths are reported. For instance the UK incentivised doctors to report deaths as Covid as that considerably reduced the amount of paperwork. On the other hand in many poorer countries I imagine many people just die, with no record of what caused it.
        
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        August 20, 2020 12:36pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        LOL (with not at cmm) I think you’re getting it.
        
        I agree it’s not a competition and never has been but the “NZ uber alles” mob will tell you it is until suddenly it isn’t – usually when their reasoning is debunked.
        
        You bring up yet another red-herring that is often used: population density, which apparently favours NZ in the top-trumps. Well until you point out that Taiwan is the 9th most densely populated country in the world. NZ you ask: not even in the top 100.
        
        They make it a competition but don’t appreciate their methodology being questioned and ultimately debunked.
        
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        August 20, 2020 12:39pm
    - Hard Cheese
      
      Which reminds me of another of Ardern’s awful PR-sourced, group-think propaganda phrases: we have to “lock in the gains”. What fucking gains? No-one has gained anything in this mess, we’re at the bottom of a deep economic hole. It’s like the “global headwinds” BS that they were using last year.
      
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      August 20, 2020 3:11pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The had prior experience with SARS. Be sure they also have no MP’s of COL quality.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:50am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Taiwan was the only country to review its pandemic plan post SARS to include the possibility that pandemics can arise from viruses other than the flu that have no vaccine eg coronavirus or biological weapon.
    
    All others stayed with the falsehood that any pandemic will have have a vaccine within 6 months, so the pandemic was temporary.
    
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    August 20, 2020 4:05pm
niggly

Apologies for asking a dumb question but what is the point of the government announcing yesterday yet another review into the quarantine system?

Asking as I would have a thought a bit of commonsense (such as actually test all border workers to a schedule) plus the agencies already managing the quarantine system would know themselves where additional resources are needed to make improvements?

Otherwise it seems to me yet another feeble and weak attempt by the CoL to “kick to touch” the problems (so they can deflect by saying no more criticism until the working group reports back, whenever that it). I hope I’m wrong because this then shows that Labour are treating a “deadly” issue with contempt!

Then on the issue of bringing another 500 soldiers, has Labour explained how long that will be necessary for? For years, until a vaccine is produced? If so, 500 soldiers (on rotation every few months or whatever) could actually impact on the Army’s ability to train (for war/peacekeeping) and sustain, and also mean they may not be able to deploy to a hotspot (if an international or regional issue arose). We saw this post the East Timor deployment 1999-2002 when the NZDF took years to regain core skillsets to be effective etc.

(It’s to do with the NZ Army being relatively small in numbers, and having enough soldiers in reserve to rotate and take over from earlier deployed soldiers. I thought I read previously the Army could only sustain a company approx 120-odd soldiers on a deployment long term).
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August 20, 2020 8:18am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  The priority for the govt is to be seen to be doing something. Fawning column inches are the only kpi that matters.
  
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  August 20, 2020 1:25pm
Inandout

Goodness me, well I used to buy Goodyear tyres before I discovered better brands, but the US market is huge and the range of tyres immense. Watch the Goodyear share price because most other companies going woke suffered buyer resistance.
https://trends.gab.com/trend-feed/5f3d84c04dec887547a33f69
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August 20, 2020 8:19am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Why won’t these companies just shut up and take my money? Have they learned nothing from Gillette?
  
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  August 20, 2020 10:09am
Justitia

So what’s the remedy when a government acts illegally and falsely imprisons people in their homes, destroys their businesses and livelihoods and prosecutes people who have committed no crime? Smile and wave?
This really is a test of New Zealanders’ moral worth. If we allow a government to trample over our rights in such a cavalier fashion, even for a purportedly good cause, we deserve every further encroachment on our freedoms that will inevitably follow.
I hope those who have lost their businesses or incomes as a result of the government’s illegal actions are getting ready to sue. For the rest of us, our only recourse is to throw the bastards out on 17 October.
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August 20, 2020 8:19am
- kwkiwigirl
  
  Unfortunately a large cohort of Labour/Green voters are uni students and millennials who can be easily bought. Just need to have uni polling booths open, where they go by every day. Then they don’t need to get out of bed and go down to a polling booth to vote.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:43am
- alloytoo
  
  A class action from those effected, Butcher’s, bakers, candlestick makers?
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:52am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Any individual who was arrested during those nine days has a clear case. They should receive compensation and any criminal record should be expunged.
  
  It would be difficult though for any business to demonstrate that it was destroyed in those nine days or that if it was, very much value was lost.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:25am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    The family of that Mad Butcher franchise in Auckland might have a view about this?
    
    If National had put him out of business, I am sure they would have been on the 6 o clock news all week.
    
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    August 20, 2020 10:11am
  - alloytoo
    
    It doesn’t have to demonstrate “Destroyed”, just loss of earnings.
    
    Easy to generate a conservative estimate based on prior years.
    
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    August 20, 2020 12:02pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  ☑️☑️Capable integrity☑️☑️
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:52am
Happychappy

I wonder whether Jacinda has given the mongrel mob the job of training their new security guards for the COVID-19 isolation hotels as it would have be the unemployed that they will hire and train.
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August 20, 2020 8:19am
- Tricati
  
  Employing own security guards is clearly to appease the unions – Heard union official on radio yesterday saying their members will be more compliant as they will have stable employment – Sounds like a jack up to me.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:48am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    stealh cronyism
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:08am
I remember when

News from London:
Heard of a teacher (secondary) who last attended school on 19 March. Returned to classroom 19 August.
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August 20, 2020 8:20am
- Flossie
  
  Got family in USA, one in middle school (13) and the other in usual school for 10 year olds – forget what that’s called. They haven’t been to school since Feb, and are busy right now preparing to get back into schooling after their summer break i.e. setting up their laptops on the kitchen table and getting new sign in passwords etc. They do not know when classroom learning will begin again. The worst part is the lack of social interaction, and things like drama and choir etc, never mind all the sports activities.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:49am
alloytoo

Wife and I watched TV3 news last night, were pleasantly surprise at the actual journalism on display.
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August 20, 2020 8:23am
Poppa

I guess the real question is, how did we get so lucky having 100 days without a single case? Or was it more a case of not testing people?

I find it very strange that the border leaks have only just begun
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August 20, 2020 8:24am
- lifesgood
  
  I don’t think we were ever covid free. All bs. Now with the election looming it makes things easier for the govt if all electioneering is suppressed hence the reappearance which, by the way, they signalled weeks ahead with sudden ads about masks and covid after a long time without them.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:45am
- Libertarians are right
  
  Or that the first quarantine worker case happened when they started testing.
  
  Sorry, we shouldn’t be spreading conspiracy theories/stating obvious facts.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:04am
- Ruawai
  
  @Poppa, same as when we had a period of around 24 days Covid free in quarantine but once testing started at day 3 and 12 we found quite a few.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:59am
Cinematic

Disturbing article today on Stuff ‘Is elimination still the best strategy?’

All the hallmarks of Groupthink amongst NZ’s senior epidemiologists. Dr Jackson’s comments in particular are embarrassing for his (and my) University.

Resorting to half truths and put downs is truly the refuge of the weak. Let’s have an open discussion about a Plan B; any sensible country would.
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August 20, 2020 8:24am
- KevO'Brien
  
  They can eliminate a virus in a lab by physical means. In the wild you can’t treat people that way.
  Academic epidemiologists don’t distinguish and show appalling lack of basic sense.
  
  We have virus of uncertain origin, possibly an intended weapon. It largely goes unnoticed and it has been shown to have the highest incidence among the adventuresome 10-19 yr olds and 80+ Unless others have severe comorbidities they are at little risk.
  
  Mitigation not elimination is the only practical way. This is not a 14th c. plague. The 1918 epidemic which changed my family’s life was much worse, taking out 20-30 year olds.
  How can any society function under a sequence of lockdowns? Does commerce flourish under that? How long before the population looses its sanity?
  Dreams of a vaccine are just that–don’t we lack one for many diseases? Big Pharma with no responsibility, just to themselves, to make what money they can out of it. Bill Gates wants us to all have glow in the dark bio numbers. The controllers are exceeding their legitimate shoe sizes.
  
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  August 20, 2020 10:13am
Frank the tank

Observations/Questions to ponder for today:

1). Someone needs to explain to Cindy that explaining is losing – at question time yesterday – one line answers turned into a form 4 (that’s year 10 for millennials) English essay with lots of pointless fluff and facts.
2). Do we really think Diggers & co are going to be the answer since they have failed so miserably to date – or indeed is the big red bus getting revved up?
3). Will Parker release crown law advice to back up his claims?
4).How long does it take to process a border exemption for a business undertaking essential services; and if > 10 days is it cheaper for the country for said company to get the wage subsidy or indeed not but undertake its normal operations?
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August 20, 2020 8:24am
- Ian Boag
  
  Powerful rhetoric.
  
  Who do you expect will respond to these issues? Other KB posters perhaps?
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:49am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Morning Ian,
    
    How’s the cornflakes this morning – a bit salty?
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:40am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Very deep. Perceptive. Cutting.
      
      I’m still waiting to see if other KBers want to answer your questions. Otherwise they should go to the relevant ministers – none of them could ignore such probing questions from a renowned public figure like Frank the Tank .
      
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      August 20, 2020 9:57am
      - Frank the tank
        
        I see your contributions as always, have been appreciated.
        
        Keep up the good work.
        
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        August 20, 2020 10:53am
      - IC5000
        
        Frank seems to have a great knowledge of Bangkok streetwalkers. Truely a man of the world.
        
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        August 20, 2020 1:29pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Nope, I see you managed a couple of upticks from those who are also mentally challenged.
    
    For someone who clearly depises KB I wonder why you bother or do you have nowhere else to post.
    
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    August 20, 2020 10:06am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Our Prime Minister couldn’t even understand the first question she was asked by Judith Collins yesterday.
  
  Ardern went into a ramble about when she was told about the Auckland outbreak.
  
  Collins politely pointed out to the Speaker that she had not asked anything about that.
  
  2. Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Is she confident her Government moved at an appropriate pace to put in appropriate measures to manage the risk of COVID-19 re-emerging in the community?
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20200819_20200819_04
  
  Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): Yes. The positive result in the current outbreak came back at around 2.30 p.m. on 11 August. I was informed around 4 p.m. I travelled back to Wellington immediately and met with the Minister of Health around 7 p.m. At 7.30, we met with all-of-Government officials and health officials. Immediately after that, I convened Ministers with power to act, and we made the decision to move Auckland to alert level 3 and the rest of the country to level 2 by midday 12 August. The Government since has undertaken extensive testing and contact tracing with the Ministry of Health to identify all cases in the cluster and place them into isolation. We have already conducted over 123,000 tests and are performing at approximately 80 percent the benchmark for contact tracing within 48 hours. We are moving as swiftly as we can to manage this re-emergence in line with our resurgence plan.
  
  Hon Judith Collins: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, I asked about the appropriate measures to manage the risk of COVID-19 re-emerging in the community, not what has happened since it’s re-emerged in the community. Perhaps you could consider whether or not the Prime Minister has actually addressed the question.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:03am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    From Judith the great… “verbal gymnastics”
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:10am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    The Duck let Adern get away with not answering it though.
    
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    August 20, 2020 3:21pm
- Ruawai
  
  @ Frank we applied for exemption on Saturday are and essential service for agriculture and nothing yet, and live and work on border edge so very frustrating.
  
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  August 20, 2020 10:37am
  - Frank the tank
    
    They would rather you on the wage subsidy = dependence on the government.
    
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    August 20, 2020 11:50am
Jimmy White

I notice the article is to be found on Stuff. Buried so deep however you need a sniffer dog to find it.
took ages to find this: https://sustainablefoodtrust.org/articles/local-alternatives-to-soya-and-palm-meal-will-help-save-rainforests/
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August 20, 2020 8:27am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  That’s why I’m so smug about drinking acorn juice!
  
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  August 20, 2020 11:01am
Maggie Pie

A friend of my partner supplies and maintains Truck-Wash machines to a number of sites around Auckland. There’s no doubt the current water restrictions are affecting his business.
What he does find unbelievable, is why this country allows China free access to a number of our natural water sources, while they have more than 87,000 Dams of their own!
He is very concerned when he hears calls from certain Auckland politicians for the privatisation of Watercare – and for good reason.
He sent thru this link……

HOW THE DRAGON IS WEAPONISING WATER
https://www.wionews.com/videos/gravitas-how-china-is-weaponising-water-314994
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August 20, 2020 8:30am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  MP
  
  WION is a v good news service out of India. Far better reporting than our bunch of muppets.
  
  I would also recommend Crossroads with Joshua Phillips and China Uncensored with Chris Chappel for news about China.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:34am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, much as I would like to think China wants a water monopoly they are at present suffering their worst flooding in decades, with some of those dams you mention breaking open. The streaming channels are awash (sorry) with first hand accounts of terrible flooding with farm crops ruined, houses collapsing and millions homeless. I would imagine 40 days of rain in some areas is reaching Biblical proportions, and the 3 Gorges Dam is groaning under the pressure. So I do feel sorry for Truck-Wash being under the Watercare ineptitude, but I assure you China at present is not looking at cornering the world water market.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:46am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    They do want water free of industrial and agricultural pollutants to drink, tho’.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:05am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  havent seen it on kb for a while but “china is asshole”
  
  that control of rivers to other countries is a job a couple of cruise missles can fix.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:47am
  - oldfella
    
    Yes, a while since I’ve said it. ‘China is asshole’. There, I feel much better now.
    
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    August 20, 2020 11:28am
- RJ
  
  Does it matter, Auckland has no water now, under Chinese ownership you’d still have no water….
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:44am
Kiwi_in_Paris

Australia has fallen. A mandatory rushed vaccine. No jab, no pay, no overseas travel, no dining out, hmm, and it is not even conspiracy theory, it is straight from the horses’ mouths:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-19/morrison-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-mandatory/12572992

https://twitter.com/blackjackpupil/status/1296031043410157568
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August 20, 2020 8:37am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  Given the last time a rushed out vaccine was mandated (1970’s in the USA) resulted in deaths and a number of injuries you would think politicians would be a little more circumspect but I guess politicians are going to politician.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:02am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    nope look at WHO a few years ago (swine or mers?) they rushed a vaccine and munted a heap of children in europe (hungary was worst from memory)
    
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    August 20, 2020 10:02am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You do realise that under the Covid-19 Public Health Response Act 2020….we can be compelled to be held anywhere for any length of time and be subject to prods and probes and medical tests…..
  http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2020/0012/latest/LMS344177.html
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:12am
  - RJ
    
    Sounds like an alien abduction, hmmmmm……
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:42am
- Flossie
  
  Thalidomide seemed like a great idea at the time.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:59am
- Classic Liberal
  
  This is such bullshit and so unnecessary. Once a safe vaccine is developed just offer it free to vulnerable people and the rest of us can pay or have a mild case. Nothing compulsory justified.
  
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  August 20, 2020 11:56am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, the link is to yesterday’s news. Morrison has since clarified things by saying the vaccine will be available to everyone free. There is no compulsion for anyone who doesn’t want it. However, there will be certain activities denied to those who are not vaccinated. That sounds fair to me.
    
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    August 20, 2020 12:42pm
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Depends on which activities: for restaurant dining: not justified. For working in a rest home or hospital: perhaps justified.
      
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      August 20, 2020 1:15pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Who knows, I’m not that grown up. However, if he needs a hand, we could send a self opinionated sheila with a self given wanky name and pink hair who knows everything about everything to sort out the rules. I think he knows how to work with these types of people.
        
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        August 20, 2020 1:27pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Can anyone remember a more incompetent set of Government Ministers than our current one?
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August 20, 2020 8:38am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  yep, I remenber last week and every week prior for almost 3 years we had the same level of incompetent ministers.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:48am
- bruceavon
  
  Yes. A few months ago when David Clark was in there too.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:48am
  - Tall Man
    
    Maybe he just couldn’t “do bullshit” like the rest of them.
    
    Maybe he knew the whole covid con was just that, a con.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:55am
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, but the incompetence is not reaching the brain dead voters because I still hear people saying ‘Jacinda saved us’. Hosking did mention the news media starting to ask the tough questions of Ministers, but I heard nothing of the $50 million soothing balm.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:49am
- niggly
  
  Admittedly, they really do excel at it!
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:58am
- RJ
  
  What, we have a government and minister? Where?
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:42am
Stu2

The Herald says that the nats border plan includes a covid card or similar – well done.

I’ve objected to the NZ app as it requires manual effort, and won’t pick you up on a bus or a train. And those spots are riskier than being in a shop.

An automatic card is far more sound. They will have to check out why the aussie app which is meant to do something like that hasn’t been very useful for contract tracing
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August 20, 2020 8:39am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Maybe, but I understand the Bluetooth card would react as soon as you simply pass someone on the st. Overreaction.
  
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  August 20, 2020 11:58am
Happy1

Is Epson in play? I see David Seymour has changed from mitigation to elimination. Perhaps the good people of Epson have told him if he advocates Swedish model he is out?
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August 20, 2020 8:40am
- Tall Man
  
  Perhaps, like cindy, he’s saying what will get him re-elected then, again like cindy, do whatever the fuck he wants.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:53am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Last I saw he was advocating Taiwan’s approach.
  
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  August 20, 2020 12:00pm
  - Happy1
    
    Yup, or like N.Z. was a couple of weeks ago and will be again in a week or two. No guarantee that Taiwan will stay free.
    
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    August 20, 2020 12:28pm
    - Classic Liberal
      
      It won’t. They have a suppression policy, realistic about some community spread.
      
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      August 20, 2020 1:16pm
      - Happy1
        
        I’m sure I heard Seymour say “eliminate “ I could be wrong, he was choking on a dead rat at the time.
        
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        August 20, 2020 2:13pm
- Hard Cheese
  
  I think Adrian Orr has an Epson, apparently that’s where most of our Government funding comes from now.
  
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  August 20, 2020 3:25pm
mikenmildagain

Eighty years ago today
The German raider Orion sank the New Zealand freighter Turakina in the Tasman Sea, about 500 km off the Taranaki coast.
The captain of the Turakina had been determined to fight if intercepted by a raider. But the Orion’s six 5.9 inch guns easily outmatched the freighter’s sole 4.7 inch gun. The captain had earlier promised that he would fight to the last if intercepted by an enemy raider. But the freighter was no match for the German warship.
The raider signalled Turakina to stop and not use radio. Turakina turned away, increased speed and sent the ‘raider’ distress signal. Orion opened fire. Within fifteen minutes, Turakina was a burning wreck. Thirty-six crewmen were killed, including the captain; twenty survivors were picked up by Orion.
In response to the distress signal, HMNZ Achilles sailed from Wellington within three hours, while the next morning a flying boat searched. No traces of Turakina or the raider were found. Australian ships and aircraft also searched without success.
Orion escaped, and returned to Europe a year late after sinking a total of ten ships. Earlier, a minefield laid off Auckland by Orion sank the liner Niagara, with a large consignment of gold, and the naval trawler Puriri, sent to clear the mines.
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August 20, 2020 8:41am
- Cassandra
  
  Although we’re unlikely to see these same circumstances again, this story does demonstrate why we need a competent military. When the bugles blow you can’t just whistle up a navy out of thin air. And 2 frigates and a tanker does not a navy make! Similar with the Air Force (although due credit to Minister Marks) or our army which now resembles an armed constabulary. In fact the actual constabulary is better armed.
  
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  August 20, 2020 10:25am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    But we’ve got a warehouse filled with unused light armoured vehicles, so there is that…
    
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    August 20, 2020 11:21am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    all our armed forces are used for is picking up coconuts after a tropical cyclone in the islands.
    
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    August 20, 2020 6:40pm
Happychappy

Is there anyway of knowing or finding out the figures and costs of how much the Goverment has spent in fighting Covid -19, I am talking about cost for food, isolation, advertising, hiring of security and other issues. Forget about the subsidy, the economy its is the dollars that are being spent that are hidden away so the public can’t see that I am interested in.
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August 20, 2020 8:45am
- alloytoo
  
  probably not as much as the Beneficiaries “Covid relief” package.
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:56am
- RJ
  
  Here’s the cost for the stay
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12352683
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:32am
  - Nickc2
    
    You can bet your left testicle the Govt. won’t reimburse the Military budget for costs they have incurred during this fiasco.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:55am
    - cmm
      
      Training exercise.
      
      That’s what they call it when Cindy takes an Air Force plane to the islands.
      
      She didn’t want to fly on regular planes because those make climate change.
      
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      August 20, 2020 12:38pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Ha Ha. Yea, that’s the way of it. A navigation training flight to somewhere they go every month.
        
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        August 20, 2020 1:01pm
  - Happychappy
    
    The would be getting more than $50 million out of the advertising I would suggest so with the costs of Quarantining it would a substantial figure.
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:55am
jacob

Maybe going a bit Gerry Brownly on this one, but…

I think it’s been three departing visitors in the last week testing covid positive after returning home. It’s been 5 months since restrictions, so these people are not casual tourists and must be on a work holiday visa minimum right?

And they are just checking off tourist hotspots off their bucket list on they way out right?

Or is there a VIP list throught quarantine coming in?

Just asking the question
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August 20, 2020 8:45am
- Happy1
  
  The Korean man came here early March and traveled around the tourist hot stops immediately before returning home. He recalls being a bit crook in early March. One of the two women was a close contact back in March. It is thought that she picked it up sitting next to a case on her flight from the U.K. She wasn’t confirmed by testing as at that time sizzle sticks were scarce. She went into self isolation and before that was up lockdown occurred. The other women, also a kiwi, came here in early March and returned to Sydney a few weeks ago. The tests are believed to be remnant virus’s from long ago dislodged by long air travel.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:18am
Peter Lane

I see Hone is bringing back his iwi roadblocks tomorrow.
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August 20, 2020 8:46am
- Peter Lane
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357965
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:46am
- graham
  
  Yep, noticed that. And as I said a couple of days ago, it might pay for him to get together with some of his fellow Northland leaders and discuss what they want as a group.
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/08/general_debate_18_august_2020.html#comment-2781691
  
  Because other leaders are worried about the impacts from dwindling domestic tourism, now that they’re effectively cut off from the rest of New Zealand. They’ve had a drop in revenue, and are worried about running out of supplies.
  
  Cafe owners say that Northlanders didn’t spend as much as Aucklanders, and have said that “Before Auckland went into lockdown we were doing quite well, but now that people can’t come through Auckland, it has affected us.”
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357253
  
  So Hone the thug is just going to ride roughshod over the rest of his fellow leaders, and nobody will dare stand up to him.
  
  Makes me sick.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:11am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Law will be restored from October 18th.
    
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    August 20, 2020 10:19am
    - sooty
      
      Who’s paying Hone his weekly wage?
      
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      August 20, 2020 12:08pm
      - Nickc2
        
        No idea but I’m told Electric Puha brings in a good living up there.
        
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        August 20, 2020 12:52pm
Lipo

Why the excitement about sending in the military to run the quarantine facilities?
I mean what experience do they have at running security? There are a lot of different professions in the military, so the next security guard you see in Camo could be an expert mechanic
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August 20, 2020 8:48am
- greybeard
  
  But they all know how to obey orders, they all know about the chain of command, they all have had professional training in something.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:26am
  - Cassandra
    
    Exactly. And their leaders from corporal up know how to make something work. We should have had a disaster-response department decades ago, right from when the Abbotsford slip demonstrated that the country was ill-prepared. It should be staffed by ex military.
    
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    August 20, 2020 10:29am
    - sooty
      
      Good training exercise for later, mate, to round us up and contain us!
      
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      August 20, 2020 12:09pm
    - Nickc2
      
      I would make it part of the Ministry of Defence. There used to be plenty of out of work lawyers in uniform down there. They can concentrate on the legals and the dotting of the Ts and crossing of the Is.
      
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      August 20, 2020 12:58pm
  - cmm
    
    … and if they fall asleep on duty they can be court martialled.
    
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    August 20, 2020 12:37pm
  - Paulus
    
    Even the Defence Minister was a toy soldier once !
    
    2 0
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    August 20, 2020 1:54pm
  - theoldbloke
    
    You have obviously never spent any significant time in the military.
    You have your rose tinted glasses on”
    Ok, so I only did 12 years, what would I know.
    
    4 0
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    August 20, 2020 2:10pm
bruceavon

Anyone know when the next poll is? We must be up, but by how much?
8 1
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August 20, 2020 8:50am
- Happy1
  
  Seymour has changed from mitigation to elimination because if he didn’t he would be unseated. Not much point in getting 4.5% if you lose Epson.
  
  6 2
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  August 20, 2020 9:22am
  - Cassandra
    
    Correct. Fight the battles you can have a chance of winning. Disagreeing with National on this would be useless. National is not the opponent.
    
    10 1
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    August 20, 2020 10:31am
CJames

This is why government needs to take a long hard look at what coroners do. He was drunk and stoned, but the road signage might have been at fault! He was a local driver so should have known the road, but you aren’t allowed to say that. No, the roading authorities will have to spend a lot of money protecting people from Darwin.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/122498526/alcohol-cannabis-and-poor-road-signage-all-factors-in-blenheim-mans-death-says-coroner
13 1
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August 20, 2020 8:56am
Vallager

Cindy is sending in troops to replace the private security guards at the isolation facilities, as apparently they have been going home and going early.
18 0
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August 20, 2020 8:59am
- Cassandra
  
  Go soft! Go late!
  
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  August 20, 2020 10:32am
Critical Thinker

US Senate FINALLY Concludes That Trump Didn’t Collude With Russia To Get Elected

“The Senate Intelligence Committee conducted a bipartisan and thorough investigation into Russian efforts to influence the 2016 election and undermine our democracy.
No probe into this matter has been more exhaustive.
We can say, without any hesitation, that the Committee found absolutely no evidence that then-candidate Donald Trump or his campaign colluded with the Russian government to meddle in the 2016 election.” – Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Marco Rubio

It turns out that then-FBI Director James Comey’s agency knew it was all a hoax as early as January 2017 — the very month Trump was inaugurated. That was three-and-a-half years ago. Most of the wild accusations against Trump were based on the fabricated dossier composed by ex-British spy Christopher Steele and funded by the Hillary Clinton presidential campaign and the Democratic National Committee. Their goal was to smear Trump with phony Russian information in advance of the 2016 election.

In other words, it was all projection. Trump didn’t collude with Russia to unduly influence the election. Hillary Clinton and the Democrats did.

Comey’s FBI deceived the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) to gain an unlawful warrant to spy on former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page. The bureau knew that Steele was unreliable and biased. It knew that the dossier was unverified and not remotely credible. The FBI knew the dossier was conjured up and commissioned by Trump’s political opponents.
Yet, Comey and others at the FBI deliberately concealed all of this vital information from the FISC. In legal terms, they committed fraud on the court. Comey and his confederates were willing accessories to the disinformation. They knew it was bogus, but didn’t care. Destroying Trump was all that mattered. So they scrupulously hid the truth.

#TREASON
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1295680975184310272

Now the dominoes start to fall.
The oncoming storm of “October Surprises” are going to be truly epic to behold.
So buckle up and enjoy the show ??
https://youtu.be/mqTu_Btkr08?t=8
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August 20, 2020 9:02am
- Littletramp
  
  Critical Thinker, you may want to consider another perspective before you accept the scenario all and sundry are promoting that Comey was crooked and ruined the FBI.
  Put yourself in James Comey’s shoes in late 2016 as FBI director, and you find out that the CIA, NSA & particularly the Justice Dept who you have to run everything through is protecting the group engaged in mass surveillance (probably for purposes of insider trading & manipulation in world financial markets) and that your Deputy Director (McCabe) has his own agenda and you are not in the loop. What do you do and who do you turn to? Why do you think all of these Obama officials are piling the heat on Comey – because he is not in on it?
  What has Comey done specifically that has harmed Trump -nothing? Who spilled the beans on Hillary in the Senate hearing just days before the election, outlining all her b/s in detail publicly, and then saying the decision had been made not to prosecute her after he had been instructed by Lynch to drop it – Comey, but he still got his message across and she lost the election.
  Comey was caught surrounded by a conspiracy and did not know what to do, so he went to Trump and they got him out.
  Just watch what happens in the next few months and then decide who are the good guys and who are not.
  Remember that after nearly 4 years of going hard for Trump “they” have found nothing to pin on him, nothing – remarkable!
  Then think back to the eighties when New York cleaned out the Russian mafia from New York and who were the cops in charge – Mueller, Comey, Rosenstein, Wray, Barr & Guiliani among others and who was a big NY player at the time especially in construction – Trump.
  This is about globalists vs US Nationalism. the next election will determine who wins.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:59am
- virtualmark
  
  Rubio is blatantly lying and mis-representing the Senate committee’s findings. Read the actual report – it’s very detailed in the hundreds of contact points between Trump’s campaign and the Russian government and intelligence agencies dating back to 2013. There’s even a wonderful sentence in there that says “This is what collusion looks like”.
  
  Don’t just take my word for it … you can read it yourself at https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/press/senate-intel-releases-volume-5-bipartisan-russia-report
  
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  August 20, 2020 12:28pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Direct quote:
    
    “The Committee’s bipartisan Report found that Paul Manafort, while he was Chairman ofthe Trump Campaign, was secretly communicating with a Russian intelligence officer with whom he discussed Campaign strategy and repeatedly shared internal Campaign polling data. This took place while the Russian intelligence operation to assist Trump was ongoing. Further, Manafort took steps to hide these communications and repeatedly lied to federal investigators, and his deputy on the Campa~gn destroyed evidence of communications with the Russian intelligence officer. The Committee obtained some information suggesting that the Russian intelligence officer, with whom Manafort had a longstanding relationship, may have been connected to the GRU’s hack-and-leak operation targeting the 2016 U.S. election. This is what collusion looks like.”
    
    That’s just one paragraph of a 966 page report. The whole report is damning, and leaves no doubt that the Trump campaign was receiving active support from Russian intelligence agencies, and *knew* it was receiving that support.
    
    I repeat … Rubio’s statement is a complete fabrication and lie.
    
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    August 20, 2020 12:43pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      War is peace
      Freedom is slavery
      Ignorance is strength
      
      1 1
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      August 20, 2020 6:38pm
I remember when

Isn’t it great that after three years of a Labour COL Government house prices are now under control!
15 0
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August 20, 2020 9:05am
MT_Tinman

Talk about chancers!

A massive, expensive failure in Pomland is now in the sights of the Restaurant Association.
5 1
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August 20, 2020 9:07am
Maggy Wassilieff

Thursday… I wonder where our PM will go for her afternoon photoshoot today.
13 0
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August 20, 2020 9:16am
- RJ
  
  A Wellington butcher to show it is fake news and butchers are still open…..
  
  9 0
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  August 20, 2020 9:27am
  - Prince
    
    Our local butcher is ‘sort of’ open, if you knock on the door and are a recognised customer.
    He tells me it’s not legal, but ‘justified’.
    
    22 1
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    August 20, 2020 9:52am
    - Inandout
      
      Prince, surely he had some halal meat as an excuse to operate?
      
      6 1
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      August 20, 2020 10:55am
      - Prince
        
        No, the specials were…
        Ardern Porkies – Cheap due to overstocking. Small breakfast sausages. Lots of sizzle, no filling.
        Robertson Burger Rissoles – Fell apart early and leaked all over the pan.
        Chippie Chipolatas – Burst on impact.
        Megan Chops – Mutton dressed as Hogget.
        Kelvin Schnitzel – Was charged for it but the bag was empty.
        Twyford Stuffed Beef Olives – No sign of olives, or beef.
        Peters Corned Beef – Lots of corn. No beef.
        Sepuloni Saveloys – Free but out of stock.
        
        10 0
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        August 20, 2020 12:43pm
    - RJ
      
      Yeah, cindy doesn’t understand it is safer for people to shop locally than go into the supermarkets
      
      10 0
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      August 20, 2020 11:12am
      - sooty
        
        I thought all meat was halal!
        
        3 1
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        August 20, 2020 12:14pm
- niggly
  
  Good question, maybe she should return to Parliament and attend Question Time, to make up for doing a “witless” and being absent yesterday when the CoL was being grilled “hard and fast” by the Opposition!
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:33am
  - RJ
    
    It’s thursday, no prime minister or party leader does question time on a Thursday, poor Winston, as deputy he no longer gets Thursday at the pub
    
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    August 20, 2020 9:45am
    - Ruawai
      
      But since they can’t be in the regions they should be in parliament question time.
      
      7 0
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      August 20, 2020 10:49am
      - RJ
        
        I see no reason why they can’t be in the regions. It’s stupid the regions are not in lockdown. There was a meeting here the other day with all candidates.
        
        2 0
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        August 20, 2020 11:16am
Ruawai

JA trying to get people to tell on others again yesterday saying anyone can report a business they come across with no QR code. Dob people in to the authorities, similar to Germany in WWII.
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August 20, 2020 9:17am
- RJ
  
  I was at a business yesterday that didn’t have one, I asked her if she knew she had to have one. She replied that she was told that all she needed was her appointment book that showed everyone that had come in and when. So it seems mixed messages are still being sent.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:39am
- Frank the tank
  
  That’s a bit harsh – this government would never have the brutal efficiency of the Germans.
  
  They more resemble the camp counselors on Hi-De-Hi.
  
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  August 20, 2020 10:57am
- kowtow
  
  Recent story in the ODT about a police couple who were both in police college during lock down , sorry can’t find link, while there was no classes ,they were deployed to follow up the dob ins. Story said there were thousands of them.
  
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  August 20, 2020 12:27pm
artemisia

So Chloe and others say Parliament is toxic. Plenty of toxic workplaces out there, plenty of bosses incompetent or worse. Well guess what Chloe. People can choose to continue work in what they see as a toxic workplace. Or they can choose to leave.

Happens every day of the week. Of course most people don’t get airtime to complain.
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August 20, 2020 9:22am
- RJ
  
  I do agree with her, it can be very toxic. Especially when greens get up and make their snide back handed comments in the house in debate and the odd time they wake up to ask a question.
  
  14 0
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  August 20, 2020 9:40am
- Prince
  
  Toxic for Greens mean people hold differing opinions and are not afraid to express them.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:45am
- Flossie
  
  Can’t be that bad as she is desperate to get back into it.
  
  11 0
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  August 20, 2020 10:07am
  - Nickc2
    
    She is desperately trying to look for relevance. Ignore her and hopefully she will go away. Remember, she’s the one that want’s to get your kids hooked on drugs.
    
    7 1
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    August 20, 2020 12:26pm
- JamesP
  
  Dove headfirst into a toxic pool at age 23. There might be a lesson in there somewhere…
  
  11 0
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  August 20, 2020 11:16am
- Paulus
  
  Chloe should shut up – she gets paid as much as she does for doing nothing or very little except to do as she is told.
  An expensive deadbeat !
  
  2 1
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  August 20, 2020 1:58pm
Maggie Pie

The Holy Bible teaches us to love each other.
I found the Kama Sutra a little more specific.

😛
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August 20, 2020 9:28am
- RJ
  
  Where’s Wally teaches you to how to find a labour MP.
  
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  August 20, 2020 9:37am
- Jack5
  
  ? If this is what you’re talking about, Maggie, we trust you have a good physiotherapist:
  
  https://www.kamorii.com/kama-sutra/
  
  5 0
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  August 20, 2020 11:47am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Hey JackO! Thnx for the heads-up 😛
    
    2 1
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    August 20, 2020 12:22pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  care to share a few of your favs and go to moves?
  
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  August 20, 2020 12:49pm
Rusty

Did I hear our beloved PM say she hasn’t been tested for covid-19 because she hasn’t been in a risk situation yet?
Do as I say (get tested) not do as I do?
22 3
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August 20, 2020 9:31am
Lee C

How to test if your mask works.
1. put on mask so that no gaps can be felt or seen.

2. Fart.

3. The odour you are smelling indicates how useful your mask is at filtering our microscopic viruses and bacteria.
17 3
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August 20, 2020 9:36am
- Melbury
  
  The main value of a mask is to reduce exhalation of droplets, and thereby protect others.
  It doesn’t have to be impervious to odours to achieve this.
  
  9 5
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  August 20, 2020 9:52am
  - Harlequin
    
    You’re great fun at parties arn’t you?
    
    12 4
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    August 20, 2020 10:01am
Maggie Pie

Would KDC prefer to deal with Angry – or Simon?

https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/1295958458299109376
7 0
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August 20, 2020 9:48am
- sooty
  
  Someone 9n there says move underground!
  He would need a fricken big tunnel!
  
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  August 20, 2020 12:19pm
graham

Oh dear … Michelle Obama criticises Donald Trump, gets called out by fact-checkers for making a “misleading” and “distorted” claim.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2020/08/michelle-obama-s-criticism-of-donald-trump-called-out-by-fact-checkers.html

Michelle Obama criticised Donald Trump for his handling of migrants trying to get into the United States, talking of children being “torn from their families and thrown into cages”.

But the Associated Press ran a fact check on the cage reference and has called it a “frequent and distorted point made widely by Democrats”.

“She’s right that Trump’s now-suspended policy at the US-Mexico border separated thousands of children from their families in ways that had not been done before,” AP reported.

“But what she did not say is that the very same ‘cages’ were built and used in her husband’s administration, for the same purpose of holding migrant kids temporarily.”

They referenced photos taken of the cages during 2014 which “depicted some of the thousands of unaccompanied children held by President Barack Obama”.
20 1
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August 20, 2020 9:50am
- Surely Knott
  
  Hmmm. How is that different to the NZ Labour Govt’s plan to take nz families who have caught covid, and forcing them into quarantine and separating them from their kids. Another classic overreaction policy when the rest of the world allows people to quarantine at home sometimes with digital surveillance.
  
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  August 20, 2020 10:52am
- kowtow
  
  Lots of coverage of her slagging off Mr Trump, not so much of hubby slagging off Creepy Joe :
  
  ” Biden could still fuck things up”
  
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  August 20, 2020 12:21pm
I remember when

Megan Woods did say “testing the quarantine hotel staff was a backstop to the PPE.”
So how DID the PPE go?
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August 20, 2020 9:54am
unaha-closp

My worry.

The longer we take to drop change our approach to COVID-19 the worse our outcome becomes.

Our strategy is to prevent herd immunity in our population and almost all the planet has a strategy to slowly create herd immunity in theirs.
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August 20, 2020 9:56am
Maggie Pie

And another thing we hate about level 3 – does anyone else think Hell Pizza has become overpriced shite? UberEats 97 bucks for two luke warm pizzas and a few sides. Just saying
12 2
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August 20, 2020 10:07am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  you have more money then sense to be paying that ammount, that $97 would feed our family of 4 for 4-5 days.
  always someone out to part a fool from their money
  
  8 1
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  August 20, 2020 12:53pm
- bruceavon
  
  Always been shite. If you pay that much, Totos or Farina’s.
  
  3 0
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  August 20, 2020 1:54pm
- Tall Man
  
  Not that I’m counting but I could make over 40 pizzas for that. I make the dough and freeze it it two sizes, 130 gms for me and 90 for the boss.
  
  I make a decent batch of the tomato base and freeze it in small measures then when we decide to have a pizza night I can whisk the base out, thaw and be ready to cook later in the day. A tad of mozzarella, hot salami etc and we’re off 🙂
  
  It would be a cold day in hell before I was dopey enough to part with that much of my hard earned dosh for a couple of pizzas and the sides would have to include a big blonde chick with the inability to say “no”…..
  
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  August 20, 2020 2:27pm
I remember when

“Hipkins admits ‘systemic issues’ with border worker testing, cluster growth ‘slowing’.
Is it time to get rid of the problematical ‘systemic’.
It’s popping up everywhere border testing, cluster growth, level 3 entry permits, racism, poverty, education, oranga tamariki, banks, insurance – the list goes on.
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August 20, 2020 10:08am
Flossie

Heard a wonderful suggestion re masks on TV3 this morning. Let’s get transparent ones so hard of hearing can lip read.
Are they even serious? Wouldn’t that be akin to covering our mouth and nose with a plastic bag, or am I missing something?
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August 20, 2020 10:10am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Single-use too. Wait for the wailing from the enviro-nutters
  
  12 0
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  August 20, 2020 11:03am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  No way! Plastic bags are banned!
  
  11 0
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  August 20, 2020 11:03am
  - Nickc2
    
    Could be a vote winner for Judith, bring back single use plastic bags (at the Supermarkets discretion of course)?
    
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    August 20, 2020 1:19pm
- Frank the tank
  
  For most in the MSM a ball gag would be more appropriate.
  
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  August 20, 2020 11:07am
- fisho
  
  There’s a few COL members who could probably do us all a favour by placing a plastic bag over their heads.
  
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  August 20, 2020 1:38pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Make sure it is sealed very tightly
  
  1 1
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  August 20, 2020 3:09pm
mandk

Factoid of the day:

Since the Contact Tracing App was introduced there have been about 1.3 million downloads, but only 3.5 million scans.
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August 20, 2020 10:14am
- DeepBlue
  
  I have given it a fair go over the last few days. I live rurally so on a town day I scanned into about 10 premises. It worked really well functionally, but by the end of the day I was over it. Dragging my phone out each time. It was faster than signing in, but I can’t see the enthusiasm lasting long.
  
  If I did 10 scans in one day there are lots of people going none.
  
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  August 20, 2020 7:21pm
Dave Mann

NZ Post seems to know something that we don’t know. Up until now my local Titirangi post shop has been open for trading (albeit with all the social distancing bullshit) – but today they are CLOSED and there’s a notice saying that subject to MOH information they will be closed until 26th August!

We are being told that the Maoist cabal are due to make a decision about Auckland’s future tomorrow, so what advance warning has NZ Post had that we haven’t been told?
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August 20, 2020 10:17am
- RJ
  
  Not allowed open under level 3, last time ours wasn’t allowed open until level 2
  
  7 0
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  August 20, 2020 11:07am
  - sooty
    
    So august 26 is when Ak comes out of level 3?
    
    3 1
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    August 20, 2020 12:23pm
    - RJ
      
      That’s the date Jacinda gave in her stand up.
      
      “Auckland will remain at level 3 and New Zealand will remain at level 2 … until 11.59pm 26 August.”
      
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      August 20, 2020 12:39pm
- Dave Mann
  
  Thank you RJ and sooty.
  
  Upon reflection I think probably my Post Shop had been staying open against government regulations and some bureaucrat found out and told them to close.
  
  That’s the explanation. I was seeing a conspiracy which isn’t actually there (but it was fun for a while hahaha) 😀
  
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  August 20, 2020 10:53pm
Flossie

I am sure glad I’m not a business owner. The Green’s call for increasing employee sick leave to ten days annually would make my blood run cold. I’ve been an employee – partner still is – but how are the business supposed to fund all this largesse?
15 1
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August 20, 2020 10:45am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  All the Green Party of Aotearoa/New Zealand really wants to do is destroy capitalism
  
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  August 20, 2020 11:16am
- Inandout
  
  Flossie, you realise that MPs can take as many sick days as they like?
  
  12 0
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  August 20, 2020 11:18am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Jacinda has had record low attendance as a PM. Seems the less she is there the more people like her. A homeopathic PM!
    
    4 1
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    August 20, 2020 2:05pm
greybeard

Chloe Swarbrick is standing as Greens candidate for Auckland Central.
The Greens want to impose more costs on businesses by increasing the number of paid sick days from 5 to 10.
Does she not realise there are a hell of lot of businesses in Auckland Central and that they may not take too kindly to this proposal ?
I can only surmise that they are not serious, but this is simply a ruse to get her more airtime and more exposure in the electorate. She must have learned something from Winston.
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August 20, 2020 11:10am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  I guess the sisterly symbolism that Chloe represents needs to be scrutinized
  
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  August 20, 2020 11:50am
Jack5

Multiculturism means our traditional medical practices are going to change. That’s what’s wanted by those who mutter, mutter, mutter about the Woke bogeys of unconscious bias and systemic racism.

The Telegraph reports the University of Bristol Medical School is also seeking to “decolonise” its curriculum, “recognising the historical exploitation of non-white people in medical research, and introducing unconscious bias training to help tomorrow’s doctors confront racism in practice.”

One example is interesting, given that about 17 per cent of the UK population is now classified as non-white, though citizens of northern Pakistan or northern Punjab ethnicity are pale skinned.

Medical students traditionally have been taught to look for blue tinges on the lips or finger tips of patients as indications they are short of breath. This doesn’t apply to non-whites, according to Joseph Hartland who is leading changes at the medical school.

Hartland said in a BBC interview:

“”Historically, medical education was designed and written by white middle-class men, and so there is an inherent racism in medicine that means it exists to serve white patients above all others.”
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August 20, 2020 11:21am
- alloytoo
  
  There’s a difference between racism and ignorance.
  
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  August 20, 2020 12:23pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  They are overreaching. Instead of just giving a reasonable idea about training drs to know about ethnic groups’ differing health problems (eg Asians w higher lactose intolerance, higher skin cancer risks if white etc), they are insulting everyone by shouting “doctors have been waaaaycist all this time!!”
  
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  August 20, 2020 12:23pm
The Housekeeper

Ooh, this from BFD, Government Response to COVID-19 is a Complete Shambles, is interesting. According to an OIA inquiry, only 17 of the 22 Covid deaths tested positive, 1 not tested at all, 4 negative.

https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/information-release/h202005103.pdf
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August 20, 2020 11:21am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You mean….
  Our Government and Bloomfield Lied to us
  
  (Actually, I had heard similar from another source — within the aged community_
  
  17 1
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  August 20, 2020 11:42am
- alloytoo
  
  Hosking also mentioned that this morning.
  
  “Of Covid” vs “With Covid”.
  
  10 1
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  August 20, 2020 12:24pm
- Grant
  
  So the tests aren’t very reliable then……….?
  
  Just asking for a nation.
  G
  
  7 2
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  August 20, 2020 12:37pm
- Tall Man
  
  I assume Wayne Mapp will have an explanation for this showing why it’s really really serious ……….
  
  Ex MPs showing why.
  
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  August 20, 2020 2:18pm
Maggie Pie

Twitter besties and long time residents of Auckland Central, can hardly wait to cast their votes at the Ponsonby Primary – 4 ticks Blue

https://twitter.com/_chloeswarbrick/status/1294479802422792194

(Is Chloe just taking the p*ss – or does she REALLY believe she’s in with a chance?)
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August 20, 2020 11:37am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Can you imagine how she’ll throw her toys out of the cot if people don’t vote for her…?
  
  17 2
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  August 20, 2020 11:44am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Sounds like you won’t be getting one either then 😀
    
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfmrJhfUEAAZsHV?format=jpg&name=small
    
    3 0
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    August 20, 2020 12:40pm
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Darn!
      
      6 0
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      August 20, 2020 12:50pm
- RJ
  
  Treat your mask like it is a greens member, don’t touch it, and when you’ve finished with it sterilise the hell out of it. Or buy a proper mask and don’t think these stupid home made ones give you any protection.
  
  6 0
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  August 20, 2020 12:02pm
  - Grant
    
    Whew! For a moment I thought you’d written “like a green’s member”.
    Good thing you know your apostrophes!
    G
    
    9 1
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    August 20, 2020 12:34pm
    - RJ
      
      Shivers, don’t even want to take my mind there
      
      2 0
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      August 20, 2020 5:42pm
- Tall Man
  
  She’s spent the past three years proving just how stupid she really is so I assume that was a rhetorical question.
  
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  August 20, 2020 2:16pm
oldfella

There is an organisation in NZ, used by some of us, called – to use the official name – the ‘New Zealand Artificial Limb Service, Peke Waihanga, Aotearoa’.
I have no idea what Peke Waihanga means. But… just saw some new business cards from that organisation which say in big letters across the top of the card: ‘Peke Waihanga’, and underneath it is the line, ‘Artificial Limb Service’.
Guess what’s missing from the cards? Go on, guess. ‘New Zealand’. Yep, not even a simple ‘NZ’.
Sigh…
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August 20, 2020 11:54am
- Batman
  
  It’s a translation of the name, of course. Loosely meaning to create the opportunity to jump i.e. restore freedom.
  
  1 17
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  August 20, 2020 11:59am
  - sooty
    
    Someone must be making a fortune making maori names for things they had no comprehension of!
    No written word ever in maori!
    
    15 2
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    August 20, 2020 12:27pm
  - oldfella
    
    So it’s ‘aspirational’? Not sure I know a lot of amputees who jump. Or would have a clue what Peke Waihanga means.
    
    9 2
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    August 20, 2020 12:28pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I put peke waihanga into Google translate and got synthetic bags .
    
    11 1
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    August 20, 2020 1:09pm
    - sooty
      
      You mean them plastic bags?
      
      4 0
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      August 20, 2020 1:57pm
    - Tall Man
      
      The current level of the Public Service.
      
      4 1
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      August 20, 2020 2:13pm
  - kowtow
    
    Maorisplaining.
    
    6 0
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    August 20, 2020 1:39pm
- Nickc2
  
  Get used to it oldfella. I haven’t heard a word from any of the political parties that they will put a stop to this nonsense. I guess we are all to blame. We let it happen in the first place hoping the novelty would wear off but then the woke fraternity took over and gave it legs.
  
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  August 20, 2020 4:00pm
oldfella

This is kinda fun. A satirical Covid take on a Gilbert and Sullivan classic.
https://www.facebook.com/WASymphonyOrchestra/videos/658479215016565/
4 1
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August 20, 2020 11:59am
- oldfella
  
  Who would downtick Gilbert and Sullivan? Come on, man (as Slow Joe would say).
  
  6 0
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  August 20, 2020 12:30pm
  - lifesgood
    
    A lefty kill joy, that’s who. Don’t they live miserable lives?
    
    6 2
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    August 20, 2020 2:17pm
rangitoto

Donald says NZ is having a surge in cases. Cindy denies it and then says she has a plan to deal with the surge. LOL.
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August 20, 2020 12:23pm
- kowtow
  
  UK Daily Telegraph editorial also questions St Jax of the Plague , a couple of days ago .
  
  Our Media Pardy ? Nothing , nada , zilch . Por que ?
  
  Trump , Trump , Trump.
  
  7 1
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  August 20, 2020 1:38pm
- Nickc2
  
  What does that tell you? Orange man right? How dare he?
  
  3 0
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  August 20, 2020 3:53pm
greybeard

Stuff headline:
“Half of New Zealanders admit having fallen for fake news, Netsafe survey finds”.
I wonder if that survey is in itself fake news ?
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August 20, 2020 12:36pm
- graham
  
  I couple of days ago I shared a link to a story in the Herald (unfortunately it’s so-called “Premium”):
  
  “Covid-19 coronavirus: Staying informed in a time of misinformation”
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/premium/news/article.cfm?c_id=1504669&objectid=12356428
  
  The article/opinion piece mostly talks about conspiracy theories, how they spread, the dangers, Trump (what a surprise), and so on. Then right at the end is this list of “how to tell if it’s real or not”. I found two points to be particularly interesting:
  
  How do you know what’s real and what’s not?
  
  – Did it confirm what you already thought? Acknowledge your biases and be extra critical of posts or stories you agree with. And be aware algorithms may be set up to show you things they think you’ll like – seek other perspectives.
  
  – Keep your critical thinking hat on. Public figures don’t always tell the truth. Friends and family don’t always tell the truth. Sometimes people claim truthful stories are “fake news” because they don’t believe them.
  
  I wonder if the MSM have ever made an attempt to take off their blinders and think, when THEY ARE WRITING SOMETHING, “Is this REALLY ‘fake news’ … or do I just not WANT to believe it? Or, am I just choosing to believe xyz because it happens to confirm my own biases?”
  
  MSM – be honest with yourselves. Are you REALLY as impartial and unbiased as you claim?
  
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  August 20, 2020 1:05pm
- RJ
  
  I would say it is far higher than that. A lot of people believed that the government was testing those coming into the country and working on the boarders, we now know that was fake news. A lot of people thought the government had enough PPE, vaccines, etc, again fake news.
  
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  August 20, 2020 1:18pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Good one!
    
    4 0
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    August 20, 2020 4:11pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ClqIUtT-OI
Chinese Banks Threatened.

So much for China starting 2020 with visions of
global dominance. President Trump wants to block Chinas use of dollars
for banking. That would marginalize them. Chinese banks have
begun to comply with US sanctions on Hong Kong. They’re
cautious about opening new accounts with sanctioned officials.
Being kicked out of the dollar banking system would kill them.
It’d be like a car with no fuel. The RMB is not an international
currency. They wouldn’t be able to trade. They’d be reduced
to barter. Couldn’t happen to a nicer CCP.
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August 20, 2020 12:58pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TID4hUxav1k
CCP PLA Differences Exposed

Japan called Chinas bluff on the Senkaku Islands. The
fishing boat intrusion didn’t work. Japans armed forces
were put on standby. Chinese city governments in Fujian, and Zhejiang
have been forbidding their fishing boats from entering Japanese waters.
The CCP thinks the Senkaku Islands are a strategic asset for Japan.
The local authorities, and PLA don’t want to be sacrificed to the
presitators ambitions. They don’t want accidental incidents
leading to something bigger. They’re worried about being
engaged on multiple fronts.
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August 20, 2020 12:59pm
SB2

Its certainly time for KB posters burst their bubble and get a sense of balance and perspective on Covid

The reality is that we are doing very well thank you very much .

These stats demonstrate just how well we are doing in respect of comparable countries of a similar size and population,

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2020/05/coronavirus-covid-19-new-zealand-latest-data-cases/

More recent and up to date data is here ( 19th August )

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/new-zealand?country=~NZL

KB would do well to publish this information so that the truth can be made manifest
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August 20, 2020 1:07pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Professor Gluckman reckons our Government has been complacent and has not made good use of all the tools available.
  
  “Other economies, such as Taiwan, are showing that, provided there is high community surveillance, rapid contact tracing, public compliance and determined mask use, clusters can be managed at lower levels of constraint,” he said.
  
  “But we are not using all the tools that are available and it is not clear we have used optimally the four months since our viral awareness rose.”
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122510038/government-not-using-all-the-tools-in-the-fight-against-covid19-says-former-chief-scientist
  
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  August 20, 2020 1:44pm
  - sooty
    
    Sorry sephie, but Hipkins has already told us unless we can see their lips move, it’s not true!
    
    5 1
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    August 20, 2020 1:55pm
  - SB2
    
    MW, again its time for you and others ( including Prof Glucklam) to get a sense of balance and perspective as the facts are we are doing quite well in comparison to similar countries with similar population sizes as my links above amply demonstrate.
    
    Obviously vastly better than Trump’s Americ or Bolsonaro’s Brazil or Boris Johnson’s Britain.
    
    1 12
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    August 20, 2020 2:35pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Hipkins is going to be busy this afternoon….

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/122506399/two-more-toplevel-resignations-at-canterbury-dhb-taking-total-to-7-out-of-11
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August 20, 2020 1:20pm
- sooty
  
  Are those two left the reason!
  
  5 0
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  August 20, 2020 1:52pm
- Tall Man
  
  Not answering you mean?
  
  4 0
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  August 20, 2020 2:11pm
Nickc2

Judith is quite right, we should have a separate ministry for border protection. Here is an example of who should run it (look at the logos on the opening screen) and one of the many tasks they should be responsible for.
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/08/abf-afp-nsw-police-and-raaf-in-dramatic-18-tonne-cocaine-seizure-offshore-newcastle.html
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August 20, 2020 1:45pm
- Nickc2
  
  Sorry, forget the bit about the logos.
  
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  August 20, 2020 1:53pm
lifesgood

Winston Peters has really lost the plot. I heard him on Hosking this morning declaring that National let medical services run down so much that sewerage was seeping down the walls at Middlemore Hospital. That was proven not to be the case at all…that the marks were rust marks. It was just another lie and self justification from the COL. Hosking didn’t challenge him on it, which was disappointing.
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August 20, 2020 2:21pm
RJ

This govt has no idea what they are doing

Returning Kiwi ‘terrified’ he’ll catch COVID-19 while in isolation

A returning Kiwi halfway through his stay in managed isolation says he felt safer back home in Australia.

Tim Barnard, 65, is home to see his brother, who has cancer and is undergoing radiation treatment and chemotherapy. He’s on day seven at the Pullman in Auckland, and wants out.
7 2
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August 20, 2020 2:59pm
- Tall Man
  
  Is his arm still up his back?
  
  2 1
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  August 20, 2020 5:36pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/122472303/south-canterbury-couple-found-guilty-of-child-neglect

The main photo in this article portrays a young European girl.
Does that mean that it was such a kid who was abused ?
Or is is it a coverup for the true identity and race of the abused child ?
Why do we not demand more truth and honesty from our supposed “free press” ?
Why do we put up with name suppression and identity suppression ? It simply give these ferals an easy ride.
I bet these kids would like their rotten abusive parents’ names and photos to be displayed for all to see, maybe they would then get a good start to recovery.
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August 20, 2020 3:09pm
- Batman
  
  It’s a bloody stock photo. Being South Canterbury they are statistically likely to be NZ European.
  
  Cool yourself down, you’re sounding fairly racially motivated.
  
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  August 20, 2020 3:12pm
  - greybeard
    
    With all due respect Batman, there is no indication that the photo is a “stock” or “file” photo.
    Just another example of misleading MSM crap.
    And I reserve the right to be motivated in any way I choose.
    
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    August 20, 2020 3:18pm
    - Batman
      
      Yes there is. The photo credit is for “Unsplash”
      
      https://unsplash.com/s/photos/new-zealand
      
      You’ve wound yourself up over a stock photo of a white girl when clearly you believe it will be a Maori or PI child. That’s your character on display.
      
      You’re right that you’re allowed to be unpleasant.
      
      2 14
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      August 20, 2020 3:33pm
    - RJ
      
      If you had any motivation you’d stand up against child abuse, not trying to make it about race, your motivation is solely racism. Bugger off because in child abuse people like you are part of the problem, not the solution.
      
      Sorry mods, but people like this really piss me off
      
      And cna I just add, my neighbour is a white guy, who had his child taken off him by Oranga Tamariki for being an abusive shit to the girl
      
      4 2
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      August 20, 2020 3:53pm
      - Batman
        
        RJ that’s exactly my point, Ta.
        
        1 7
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        August 20, 2020 5:18pm
      - RJ
        
        Thanks Batman for actually making your points, I appreciate your posts on this one.
        
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        August 20, 2020 5:41pm
  - burt
    
    You calm down, the golden rules are this;
    
    1. If the ethnicity of the offender isn’t in the headline – it’s not a white person.
    
    2. If the religious or political affiliation of the offender isn’t in the headline – it’s a Muslim
    
    3. If the person has name suppression after the court case – they are either a Labour Party member or an All Black
    
    It really is that simple.
    
    15 3
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    August 20, 2020 3:20pm
    - Batman
      
      extremely close to being deleted for generalising entire groups, I would imagine.
      
      2 15
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      August 20, 2020 3:34pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I’m no authority here but that comment didn’t generalise a group to me, it generalised media responses or lack thereof.
        
        4 1
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        August 20, 2020 5:34pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Yes, you would indeed imagine that. Get back to us on baaaaad generalizations when all non-pigmented people stop being accused of being guilty for racism, colonialism, genocide, comparatively better impulse control and centuries of history of life-saving inventions and discoveries.
        
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        August 20, 2020 7:28pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    And yet – there’s a reported-today disproportionate uptick in child abuse in Porirua and nobody but nobody can associate that with any factor Poriruan. And the photo used to illustrate the Porirua story is – of a Caucasian child. Go figure. (Or not).
    
    4 0
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    August 20, 2020 6:25pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Some unpleasant facts finally make TV One news
      
      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/oranga-tamariki-not-solely-blame-child-uplift-says-m-ori-advocate
      
      5 0
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      August 20, 2020 7:25pm
- RJ
  
  Children of all races are abused. Where is your post of the timaru cafe owner who assaulted his pregnant staff member, or because he is white does that not count?
  
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  August 20, 2020 3:30pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Europeans are 80% ish of the population. Europeans represent less than 40% of the prison population.
    
    Racism does not alter facts, stupidity does.
    
    5 0
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    August 20, 2020 5:31pm
    - RJ
      
      Right so where is his post of the timaru step father sentenced to 9 years for sexually assaulting the step daughter? Not posted because it is a white guy. No racism has everything to do with posts like his,
      
      0 3
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      August 20, 2020 6:55pm
      - Tall Man
        
        You want to comment on all convictions?
        
        His comment was on the lack of detail in the article, not the crime but get outraged if you want.
        
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        August 20, 2020 8:19pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Cops say No…
but Hone doesn’t care if his roadblocks are illegal …

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300087282/coronavirus-police-expect-iwiled-checkpoints-to-be-called-off
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August 20, 2020 3:19pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  OK. Time to saddle up with my superior firepower…
  
  hhttps://nerf.hasbro.com/en-us/product/nerf-rival-nemesis-mxvii-10-k-red:04EE367E-5056-9047-F5C3-F9328C984FB8
  
  I shall defeat the minions and toadies by which the Lordling Honungus seeks to block my access to his Waste Land!
  
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  August 20, 2020 7:31pm
dave_c_

Just thought of a great idea that would assist those who cannot afford food and shoes for their children, or the family who may not be employed etc during this Covid period.
Take away the temptation !
Lets have a Lotto holiday – Stop the sale of Lotto tickets until New Zealand is back to Level zero !
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August 20, 2020 3:59pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Choice…..!

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2020/08/coronavirus-fears-urinals-could-be-an-unexpected-source-of-covid-19-transmission.html

I will not reveal my opinion of chaps who can’t aim……
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August 20, 2020 4:36pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Now I understand why some do not use them and prefer to piss all over the seat and floor in the malls.
  Strange they NEVER do that at home – get the jandal!
  Oh, some may have small dick syndrome
  
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  August 20, 2020 5:12pm
Pheobe

Heard today that around 500 Fijians have been brought into the country to plant trees. One farm in particular is owned by airnz/government. Trees will be to offset their carbon credits. Are our borders really closed, I guess its ok if the government are doing it, because everyone else who needs foreign workers can’t get them. You would think the government at least would be using nz workers.
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August 20, 2020 4:58pm
- Tall Man
  
  I have planted pine trees for a bit of extra money. Depending on location it ranges from really hard to extremely hard work.
  
  I guarantee there are few locations in NZ where you could assemble 50 willing workers let alone 500.
  
  10 0
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  August 20, 2020 5:07pm
  - sooty
    
    But Hones cousins were going to do that.
    That means they will home on the couch,
    collecting the dole. … [Del. Mod]
    
    6 0
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    August 20, 2020 5:19pm
    - sooty
      
      That’s a couple of plane loads!
      
      4 0
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      August 20, 2020 5:28pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Government” and “NZ workers” should not be used in the same sentence.
  Besides, NZ workers are scarce, so we import someone who wants to make a dollar.
  “Ok if the Govt can do it?” The Jaspinda Govt does as she says
  
  9 0
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  August 20, 2020 5:07pm
  - Tall Man
    
    To be fair, I meet shitloads of young people that are going forward and have heaps of drive and energy.
    
    My youngest and his partner are onto their third house in 5 years as well as raising two lovely children.
    
    The couch dwellers are a minority but a very expensive minority and an easy vote grab for the lazy labour liars. Keeping them dependent is the aim not empowering them to advance.
    
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    August 21, 2020 7:10am
- RJ
  
  And can you provide a link to this?
  
  2 0
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  August 20, 2020 5:39pm
RJ

This is wrong. This is the man who is leading the governments COVID response, he should be before a select committee every week explaining what is going on and answering questions

Parliament’s health select committee has rebuffed a request from National Party health spokesman Dr Shane Reti to summon Director-General of Health Dr Ashley Bloomfield to answer questions about the latest Covid-19 incursion.
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August 20, 2020 5:37pm
- sooty
  
  Who thinks it will get ineresting of National win the election! Oh to be a fly on the wall!
  
  4 0
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  August 20, 2020 7:19pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  
  Victoria quickly launched a detailed investigation of its “resurgent” episode.
  
  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-20/victoria-coronavirus-hotel-quarantine-inquiry-day-1-in-melbourne/12471916
  
  No good finding out in a year’s time what could have been done better.
  
  5 0
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  August 20, 2020 7:23pm
  - Tall Man
    
    No one wants to know where the buck stops, certainly not cindy.
    
    0 0
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    August 21, 2020 7:03am
Inandout

As you were chaps..
https://trends.gab.com/trend-feed/5f3dd9204dec887547a34303
Probably a bit late for the tyre company.
4 0
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August 20, 2020 6:04pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122507248/restaurants-want-government-to-spend-27m-subsidising-meals

If and when the “good times” return and restaurants are once again making shitloads of money, will they return the favour and donate a large portion of their after-tax profits to New Zealanders ?
What ?
They won’t ?
Well, what a surprise………………..
2 2
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August 20, 2020 6:14pm
Iamright

Gerry was criticised for saying the media were biased. Tv one tonight were so crass referring to Judith as Crusher Collins. No f….g respect whatsoever!!!
13 0
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August 20, 2020 6:22pm
- barnacle bill
  
  It is not that long ago that Collins was lapping up all the publicity of being called Crusher Collins.
  
  So where is the problem ?
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:04pm
  - Tall Man
    
    I’ll guarantee you won’t like ardern being labelled a liar though. Judith only got a couple of cars so doesn’t really deserve the “crusher”moniker.
    
    ardern lies like a drain so the epithet is well deserved.
    
    0 0
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    August 21, 2020 7:00am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Biased????
  
  How about tonight’s effort from Stuff… calling Judith Collins a bomb-thrower.
  
  few voters who recently shifted their support to Labour will be drawn back to National by a bomb-thrower
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/300087746/why-is-national-struggling-to-convince-voters
  
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  August 20, 2020 8:04pm
  - Prince
    
    Yeah, written by…
    Josiah Banbury has taught social policy and human services at the University of Canterbury. His research interests include disasters, housing and economic inequality.
    
    Clearly well qualified to write about the National Party.
    
    0 0
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    August 20, 2020 8:32pm
- Flossie
  
  Did you complain to TV one? I did….cant wait to see if they respond to my email.
  
  0 0
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  August 20, 2020 10:11pm
Kiwi_in_Paris

I am not a Christian, but it makes you think, doesn’t it?

“The Mark of the Beast

16 And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark— the name of the beast or the number of its name.”
5 1
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August 20, 2020 7:32pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Quick join the JWs and get the Mark of the Lamb on your forehead…
  
  And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.
  
  cover all your bases.
  
  4 0
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  August 20, 2020 8:50pm

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