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August 24, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 24 August 2020

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General Debate

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wimpston peeeders

so whats the reasoning behind this?
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/122535945/heavy-security-as-nation-holds-breath-ahead-of-mosque-gunman-sentencing

armed police and even military involvment, is this justified?
has a credible threat been made?

If so then why is the public not warned or is this our “new normal” and we pander to every made up fear and our police arm up to give the illusion of saftey and control.

6Pm news last night showed how OTT its all got.

im f**king over this police state and the perpetual fear narrative BS, too many ppl roll over and accept this shit. its creeping constantly which is quite disturbing.
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August 24, 2020 8:00am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Nation holds breath???
  
  Really, on what planet?
  
  Vicious Turd sentenced to Life Imprisonment, for vicious act of murder…. And? Not Holding Breath Yet. Is it safe to exhale? Do I need a hug?
  
  More and in excruciating detail all over the “responsible media” ™ just like they “responsibly” covered the Grace Millane trial?
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:01am
- DRHILL
  
  I don’t know how the media can portray this as “New Zealand’s Shame”
  It’s not, it’s Australia’s Shame for bringing up a person like this.
  
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  August 24, 2020 10:34am
  - Flossie
    
    A bit unfair. How would you like us to be blamed for all the bad guys currently living and offending over there. It could well be our shame that this murderer came and did his crime here as he saw it as a softer option than his homeland.
    
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    August 24, 2020 11:16am
    - Tall Man
      
      Well, cindy did change the rules on MSSA firearms.
      
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      August 24, 2020 1:33pm
  - Justitia
    
    @DRHIL: Because it suits the Left wing media’s narrative which is based on the promotion of identity politics to blame all white male New Zealanders for Tarrant’s crime. That’s why Jacinda took their guns away.
    
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    August 24, 2020 11:47am
- Allan
  
  My thoughts exactly, the guy is a bad dude however I really feel that there was no way in the world that an armed band of thugs were ever going to attempt to free him. The whole military style operation with all of the accompanying armed militia that we call the Police was quite OTT, uneccessary and a total and utter waste of taxpayers money. They could have chartered an Air NZ A320 and had a squad of the Armed Offenders Squad accompanying Mr Tarrant. That would have cost a lot less and have been sufficient. Mind you when you look at how the Socialist/Communist Governments operate this type of show of military might is always used to subjugate and show how powerful the Government is so perhaps that was one of the reasons for this. Just a thought.
  
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  August 24, 2020 12:19pm
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    Our police are acting as if they have a drug cartel kingpin in their custody with a 50mil bribe to free him/help escape.
    its pathetic pandering to a minority group and to make a certain woman look good to the world.
    
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    August 24, 2020 2:39pm
Captain Mainwaring

Why the Hell does it take FOUR DAYS to sentence the prick Tarrant?
I can say ‘life without parole’ in less than ten seconds.
Someone must be taking the piss.
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August 24, 2020 8:00am
- Sigmund Freud
  
  At age 60 I’ve often wondered what it would be like living in a nightmarish dictatorship of weirdos and misfits led by a show pony. Where nothing gets done except for the murder of 3rd trimester babies and a mass murderer gets handed a gun through utter government incompetence.
  
  Thanks to Winston I now know.
  
  And I think other people should be in dock today as well.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:01am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Because there are over 60 victim statements to be delivered in person.
  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53861456
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:07am
  - igm
    
    What in hell is this going to cost NZ taxpayers?
    
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    August 24, 2020 8:10am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Fifty people were murdered, and you’re worried that the sentencing hearing for the murderer will be expensive…
      
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      August 24, 2020 8:39am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      What has it already cost?
      
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      August 24, 2020 8:56am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Frankly, I don’t care. One of the features of a functioning democracy and a civilised country is an effective justice system. If there’s a cost to holding Tarrant to account for his crimes, we have to be prepared to pay it.
        
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        August 24, 2020 9:56am
      - Liberty
        
        Tony Stuart
        Frankly, I don’t care
        To a point you are right.
        By treating Tarrant differently the state is just pandering to the low life scum.
        Whatever sentence Tarrant gets. Will it be *60 to match the victims.
        Of course it wont. So why the big show sentence?
        
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        August 24, 2020 11:07am
    - bruceavon
      
      Sorry I support the victims of crime. This case should be no different. We aren’t some crappy third world country. Surely we can pay for a proper court appearance and give each of the victims a chance to eyeball this guy. My concern is Tarrant trying to use this time to put forward his stupid theories. The New Zealand press have agreed to not report such stuff but the UK press will be here and they won’t care at all.
      
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      August 24, 2020 11:46am
  - namron
    
    Tarrant has pleaded guilty, so why have NZ taxpayers had to pay for quarantine etc for these 41 people to come back to NZ to make “victim’s statements”?
    
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    August 24, 2020 9:51am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      I would have thought that only an ouija would enable victim statements in this case. I feel a bit like a victim of events and attitudes since then: can I make a contribution please?
      
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      August 24, 2020 11:47am
  - Liberty
    
    Put their names in a hat and draw a couple.
    
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    August 24, 2020 10:34am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    We have representative charges for efficiency reasons, so why not representative victim impact statements for similar efficiency reasons? We know that they will all essentially say the same thing.
    
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    August 24, 2020 12:19pm
    - lifesgood
      
      Victim impact reports read out to the perpetrator are a complete waste of time. The crim couldn’t care less, it will be in one ear and out the other and worse, he will probably smirk, which will be even further damage to the victims. VIRs should be in written form and given to the judge. It would save a massive amount of time and money and would end up with the same result. TBH if I was the victim of a terrible crime I would not want to stand in court and read out a VIR.
      
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      August 24, 2020 1:24pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  We’ve never actually seen or read Tarrant’s manifesto. Although my partner thinks ‘motive’ may have been be a lot simpler than some people have been lead to believe?
  
  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgGnzZKWsAA4pzW?format=jpg&name=small
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:17am
  - Jax30
    
    Maggie, a friend has read the manifesto. Tarrant is an Eco Fascist not right wing at all.
    That would explain banning it as it did not suit Labour’s agenda
    
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    August 24, 2020 8:31am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      I read some of the manifesto before the book burning began.
      
      I found it to be a rambling disconnected nothiness that prompted me to go and wash my hair with the whole Yul Brynner hair-care product range.
      
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      August 24, 2020 9:02am
      - Twinkletoes
        
        Ditto – apart from the tress treatment!
        
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        August 24, 2020 10:38am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      What is it in either ideology, “eco” or “fascist”, that dictates the murder of Muslims?
      
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      August 24, 2020 9:04am
      - Ash
        
        It’s what he called himself. He was motivated to set Catholics against Muslims to reduce world population, which he said was destroying the World. He said a lot of things, I suspect he intended for identity groups to turn on each other.
        
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        August 24, 2020 9:50pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Can anyone make anything out of that manifesto beyond confused gibberish? I would have treated him as a mental case on the basis of it.
      
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      August 24, 2020 9:06am
      - Justitia
        
        @ Kev: you should be aware by now that it is only adherents of “the religion of peace” who may receive the “lone wolf, mental health issues” dispensation. In this case all New Zealanders of European extraction have already been pronounced collectively guilty by university academics and the media.
        
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        August 24, 2020 9:38am
      - Crisplion
        
        He’s a zealot who murdered 50 innocents in the name of his ideology. I think that does indeed qualify him as a ‘mental case’. In less clinical language, he’s a conduit for evil – an unholy brew of arrogance, resentment and delusion.
        
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        August 24, 2020 10:00am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Ah yes but, a mental case with a gun, unfortunately
        
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        August 24, 2020 12:59pm
    - Justitia
      
      From the snippets that entered the public domain it appears he might have felt at home among the Greens.
      
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      August 24, 2020 9:08am
      - SB2
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Justica, no among neo-nazis and the far right!
        
        The term “eco fascism” does not let the far and alt-right off the hook asper my recent post
        
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        August 24, 2020 10:18am
    - Jules99
      
      I saw it on a YT channel before it was banned – what’s reported in the media (who are allowed to see it) and what it actually says are different. He certainly doesn’t seem right wing to me.
      
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      August 24, 2020 9:16am
      - SB2
        
        Jules 99 , well he is. Far-right Anders Brevik manifesto will give us clues into the mind of Brenton Tarrant,
        
        https://publicintelligence.net/anders-behring-breiviks-complete-manifesto-2083-a-european-declaration-of-independence/
        
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        August 24, 2020 10:22am
    - SB2
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Jax30,
      
      Eco-fascism: The ideology marrying environmentalism and white supremacy thriving online
      lyy
      The online movement has roots in neo-Nazism – and a violent edge worth taking seriously
      
      https://www.newstatesman.com/science-tech/social-media/2018/09/eco-fascism-ideology-marrying-environmentalism-and-white-supremacy
      
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      August 24, 2020 10:13am
      - Justitia
        
        SB2: “fascism” is socialism with ethnonationalist characteristics. Both are totalitarian systems that oppress the individual. There’s a special place in Hell where they meet and find they are indistinguishable from each other.
        
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        August 24, 2020 11:52am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Stating you’re an eco-fascist doesn’t mean you are one. I also read the manifesto and concluded fairly early on that he was deliberately trolling the earnest academics that would pore over it trying to discern meaning and motive.
      
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      August 24, 2020 7:50pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    skimmed it overseas. It’s an incoherent mish-mash of dumb ideas copied from all over the place, really just rationalizing a desire to do a ‘spectacular’ he’s a loner Narcissist who craved attention.
    
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    August 24, 2020 9:16am
    - Inandout
      
      The one thing that is for certain is that Tarrant was the legal owner of the firearm.
      
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      August 24, 2020 10:02am
  - IC5000
    
    > Although my partner thinks ‘motive’ may have been be a lot simpler than some people have been lead to believe?
    
    No, he is definitely an alt right mass murderer despite what his fellow traveller here want the public to believe
    
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    August 24, 2020 11:31am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Thank you Professor Pinterschloss. Please do enlighten us about your qualifications, experience and most importantly the detailed interviews and examinations that have led you to confidently state this diagnosis.
      
      Fellow travellers? You unmitigated piece of scum.
      
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      August 24, 2020 7:57pm
- peterwn
  
  So the victims can be heard. Arguably this is a 4 day horrid punishment in its own right.
  If I were the judge I would sentence him to life but with a 20 year minimum. My reasons are:
  1. A civilised country should not lock up someone for 20 years or more with no hope of parole. The law should be amended to give all very long term prisoners a chance to appear before the Parole Board each 20 years but with very stringent criteria for granting parole. Someone who murders 50 people would be very unlikely to ever be released unless there are special circumstances (see below).
  2. If or when he is ever granted parole, he would immediately be put on the next plane back to Australia and he would then become the Australians’ worry. The Australian Government might wail and gnash its teeth over this, but they cannot complain as this is the policy Australia applies to miscreant Kiwis. It would also save NZ decades of custody costs. So he should be granted Parole after 20 years.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:24am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I disagree peterwn. Tarrant’s crime was far worse than that of William Bell, who got a 30-year minimum non-parole period.
    
    If ever there was a case where Life Without Parole could be the sentence given, it is this one. As an alternative however, given that no judge yet has used LWOP, I would suggest a minimum non-parole period of 51 years.
    
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    December 24, 2019 8:55am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Interesting that UK just delivered a sentence of at least 55 years in jail for Hashim Abidi, the brother of the Manchester Arena suicide bomber.
      
      https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/crime/manchester-arena-bombers-brother-jailed-least-55-years-after-terror-attack-2948014
      
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      August 24, 2020 9:11am
      - Inandout
        
        Maggy, I read he refused to appear before the court. Can not the Judge force him to appear?
        
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        August 24, 2020 10:09am
      - peterwn
        
        Inandout – Perhaps the judge thought it was not worth the hassle especially if he would immediately start kicking and screaming in the dock. NZ judges sometimes send offenders back to the cells if they make a disturbance during the trial especially sentencing.
        
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        August 24, 2020 11:13am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Well, in Tarrants case 20 years per victim and I’d agree.
    But in this gutless country where you can murder to your hearts delight and be feted by the bleeding hearts and their tame judiciary, with their 2 t0 50 murders for the price of one sentences , nah.
    
    If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.
    
    So simple only the Bleeding Heart Leftys’ can’t understand it.
    
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    August 24, 2020 8:58am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    2. If or when he is ever granted parole, he would immediately be put on the next plane back to Australia
    
    I agree with most of your post but not this bit.
    
    Take the bastard to the 200 mile point and make him walk the rest of the way.
    
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    August 24, 2020 8:59am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    My partner reckons if it was up to him he’d shoot the pr*ck.
    
    Just saying
    
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    August 24, 2020 9:12am
    - bruceavon
      
      Yep. After the guilty verdict just take him out the back and shoot him. Save a lot of time and money.
      
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      August 24, 2020 9:22am
      - mark15
        
        Yeah nah.I don’t want to go down that road,where does it end?
        
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        August 24, 2020 10:40am
      - peterwn
        
        And make his rellies pay for the bullet – Chinese style.
        
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        August 24, 2020 11:15am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        It is cases at the extremes like this one that test the integrity and legitimacy of a justice system. If you don’t respect the Rule of Law in every and all cases, then you we are on the road to living in a capricious tyranny, or close to it. If I were to relent to my sentiments and emotions, then I wouldn’t really mind seeing child abusers and those who bash elderly people deprived of their lives. But it is for the justice system to allow for and sanction that, not for me to act on pure emotional indignation, discarding the principles of an ordered society and take matters into my own hands. Tarrant had no right to murder, and neither do you or anyone else, both as a matter of definition.
        
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        August 24, 2020 3:09pm
  - fernglas
    
    Life with a twenty years minimum? That’s only 3 years above the statutory minimum for someone who has killed two people. And if he was paroled after 20 years and sent back to Australia, he would be nobody’s worry.
    
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    August 24, 2020 9:21am
- Inandout
  
  CM, the bought and paid for Arab tourists that Jacinda has let in to attend the trial want a decent show; apart from all the charges to be read out in Arabic.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:26am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    ‘Tourists’? I really don’t think they will be enjoying themselves.
    
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    August 24, 2020 9:14am
    - Inandout
      
      CL, for some it is a trip they would otherwise not be able to afford.
      
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      August 24, 2020 10:13am
      - IC5000
        
        Pretty sure they would want their loved ones alive rather than take a trip of a life time. Unsure how anyone sane could come to that conclusion.
        
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        August 24, 2020 5:11pm
  - MCos
    
    What do you think they’re going to do?
    Skip the trial & go skiing?
    
    “Dr Hamimah Tuyan is one of 31 women widowed in last year’s Christchurch terror attack. She’s now based in Singapore and has had to spend two weeks in managed isolation, used all of her leave, and leave both of her children behind to attend the sentencing of the mosque gunman this week.
    
    Tuyan told Sunday Morning she thought long and hard about the decision to return to New Zealand for the sentencing, but an overwhelming desire to speak on behalf of her late husband and her two boys made up her mind in the end.“
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2018760718/christchurch-mosque-shooting-widow-i-am-my-husband-s-voice
    
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    August 24, 2020 12:15pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Fucking weird. Tarrant plead guilty, but we need 56 victim impact reports read out, that will take 4 days.
  
  Turns out 66 family members have been imported through quarantine for the Main Event.
  
  Why? How hard is it to say “Life without Parole, now back to your cell”?
  
  Is Court supposed to be a Theatre?
  
  Are we all supposed to wallow around in our collective guilt and grief?
  
  Will Cindy turn up and start hugging everyone again? Or will we just watch the action replays, while a grateful media reminds us that she is the Princess of Kindness? ™
  
  Just as well no-one would dream of politicising this, eh?
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:58am
  - Jimmy White
    
    It can be summed up in three words
    Cindy’s Show Trial
    
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    August 24, 2020 6:50pm
- rouppe
  
  Because every single victim is being given the opportunity to address the court
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:07am
  - Inandout
    
    deity, Stalin was an expert in show trials.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EzcGlFXCRI
    
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    August 24, 2020 10:18am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Yes, if we are perceptive and honest enough, we can appreciate that all of this cynically politically motivated heart-string pulling is designed to stop important, valid questions associated with the shootings being asked.
      
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      August 24, 2020 12:24pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  A while back there was a lot of momentum for tougher sentencing. Due to cunning politics by the left and a lack of spine by the right, this got twisted into ‘victims rights’ which has been further diluted to just mean the victims all get to give a speech before the criminal is sentenced to the same pathetically inadequate sentence they would have received anyway.
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:52am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Giving the victims time to give their statements.
  
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  August 24, 2020 10:27am
- septic skeptic
  
  Lawyers charge an hourly rate last I heard.
  
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  August 24, 2020 11:28am
- IC5000
  
  > I can say ‘life without parole’ in less than ten seconds.
  
  How many times did you have to practice?
  
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  August 24, 2020 7:14pm
wimpston peeeders

so who knows the ACTUAL laws surrounding contact tracing at businesses?
the covid ads wording says “we must” but as with this govt the legality behind it is questionable. I understand legally businesses must display the code thingy and have a register but is it a legal requirement for us to use it?
Can they refuse entry if we dont?
Where are are privacy rights on this?

I have had varying experiences shop to shop (southland lvl2) but went to go take my wee boy to mcdonalds and it was next level covid retardation, long story short the **** at the kiosk in the door got a tirade of abuse and my boy went without his mcnuggets. to top it off they wouldnt take cash anyway (I refuse to be contact traced via bank transactions)

I refuse to enter a business that requires mandatory sign in, only police and fisheries officers IMO have the right to demand my contact details.
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August 24, 2020 8:01am
- fernglas
  
  It is your right to refuse to enter a business that requires you to sign in, as it is their right to refuse you entry if you do not comply with their entry requirements. Privacy issues would arise from how they dealt with any information you might give them, but if you agree to use the app or sign in, you have obviously consented to the information being used in the future for contact tracing purposes.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:23am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    a chart on a desk with my name address and ph number for all to see totally breaches my privacy.
    
    during 1st lockdown and lvl 3 I signed in under jacinda ardern 0800fkgovt 🙂 now I just refuse to sign in.
    
    My OP asked what is THE LAW stating we must provide our details. I understand they have made it a rule but rules are not law!
    
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    August 24, 2020 8:57am
    - Inandout
      
      wp, just flash your phone at the squiggle and you are sweet, just watch and learn.
      
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      August 24, 2020 10:20am
      - wimpston peeeders
        
        true but thats not the point.
        it would also give them the illusion/satisfaction of compliance and being a good sheeple.
        
        ive questioned and pushed back against authority for 33yrs why change now?
        
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        August 24, 2020 10:45am
    - IC5000
      
      > a chart on a desk with my name address and ph number for all to see totally breaches my privacy.
      
      Just put fake details down then. As someone who only has regard for themselves it is clearly the only selfish thing to do.
      
      This is the poison that has corroded NZ society. Just a bunch of people who are only concerned with themselves and their wants.
      
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      August 24, 2020 11:38am
      - Blackface Twin Reverb
        
        Because of This ~~is the~~ Covid poison that has corroded NZ society. ~~Just a bunch of~~now people ~~who are only~~ concerned with ~~themselves and~~ their PRIVACY
        
        FIFY.
        
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        August 24, 2020 1:10pm
      - KH
        
        “why change now” Here’s why. If you are part of a chain of infection it helps to find out who is in the chain.
        That won’t help you much, but that tracing can help a lot of people.
        Yes, we know you don’t care about them, that’s why it’s a rule. Irresponsible people need rules, because they can harm others.
        
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        August 24, 2020 4:19pm
      - wimpston peeeders
        
        KH that just sounds like some socialist/communist eutopia BS.
        Maybe you should remember that a reasonable chunk of society want covid to spread and take its natural course.
        I wouldnt help a cop solve a crime so sure as hell wouldnt bother helping nigel from balclutha track a case of the sniffles.
        
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        August 24, 2020 9:11pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Lol “obviously consented”. No way, because in those haphazard sign in sheets some shops use there are no terms and conditions and way too much information is displayed for anyone to abuse.
    
    Putting up with something very reluctantly because a shop is our only source of food is a long way from “consenting”. More like suffering through rape to not be murdered.
    
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    August 24, 2020 9:25am
  - Jimmy White
    
    Just turn up, wave your phone at the code and in you go
    
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    August 24, 2020 6:51pm
- Peter Lane
  
  I saw that in one of the Covid ads and wondered about telling people they must use the app.
  
  Clearly not enforceable, there are a surprising number of people who don’t own a smartphone for starters.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:27am
  - Souvlaki
    
    And importantly….it doesnt work if you & your partner share an email address.
    It is a DOG…Im surprised this basic failure has not been addressed.
    
    32 2
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    August 24, 2020 8:31am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Businesses must also maintain a hard copy register for people without a phone to use.
    
    5 31
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    August 24, 2020 8:40am
    - littlebluedroid
      
      Sorry, Not True
      
      Supermarkets are exempt.
      
      26 0
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      August 24, 2020 9:57am
  - Flossie
    
    Partner and I went to a well known coffee restaurant for Saturday lunch. I scanned the app at door#1, and we chose an outside table. He then went through door #2 to join the line to place our order. No no no! Can’t come in unless you sign in he was told. He dutifully wrote his name and number on the form, which he would not have done if hadn’t expressed my desire to eat there – he would’ve just said no thanks mate and walked.
    
    22 3
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    August 24, 2020 8:42am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, I’m one of those. My phone doesn’t do apps. If I am legally required to do something, I should be given the tools to do it with. I promise I will give this tool back post COVID. The Govt. gave kids computers and modems to use during COVID.
    
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    August 24, 2020 8:43am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Just fill out the paper register.
      
      4 28
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      August 24, 2020 9:03am
      - Nickc2
        
        Neither my local supermarket or takeaway had them out on Friday.
        
        12 0
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        August 24, 2020 10:04am
    - MCos
      
      Go to the supermarket and buy the the raw ingredients so you can cook meals at home like we do every day.
      Kids education is essential; our going to restaurants isn’t.
      
      15 8
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      August 24, 2020 9:34am
  - jaysper
    
    I refuse to use it.
    We should never have been put under house arrest to start with.
    A virus gets loose and the whole world wets it’s pants.
    It ain’t bloody smallpox people.
    
    38 9
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    August 24, 2020 8:45am
- peterwn
  
  Since you may be suffering from paranoia, how do you know the cash you handle does not carry the Covid 19 virus.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:28am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    I dont give a flying f**k about covid, bring it on I want immunity and a man flu.
    
    If youre a freak about covid on cash id be more worried about any item off a supermarket shelf or the eftpos/atm machine that thousands touch, my cash has been in my possesion since start of lockdown im pretty sure its safe 🙂
    
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    August 24, 2020 9:02am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Yep, all those precautions and then the items we buy get dutifully stacked in our cupboards, our pantries and refrigerators. No-one gives it a second thought. How many people touched the products or contents before they made their way to you home?
      
      9 1
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      August 24, 2020 10:03am
- Ruawai
  
  Just hold your phone up to the QR code, they will never know you haven’t even got the app on your phone.
  
  51 4
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  August 24, 2020 8:30am
  - alwyn
    
    Quite right. That is exactly what I do.
    My phone will let me make, and receive phone calls.
    I can send and receive text messages.
    I can take quite good photos.
    And it cost me the grand sum of $5.00. Yes FIVE dollars. What more do I need?
    
    I fact you don’t even need a phone at all. I have in the past got away with brandishing a glasses case as if it was a phone. I have trouble walking, either very far or very fast and I need to use the mobility parks in Wellington. Occasionally, before I had a mobile phone I would find a Courier van parked in such a park. If the driver was there I would simply wave at him (reasonably politely) to get out of the park and pretend to take a photo of his van, from a position where the number showed, with my glasses case.
    It was quite amazing how fast the Courier was to get out of the parking place. After all, if it really was a camera I would have been able, in just a few seconds, to send a copy to his employer, the Police, the City Council and the Dom/Post. I don’t think they really wanted that.
    
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    August 24, 2020 10:20am
    - Nickc2
      
      Good one alwym. Whilst at my local takeaway last Friday, I was in a line of about four or five people and when it was my turn to enter the doorway and place my order, I put my phone (the one that doesn’t do apps) in front of the QR Code poster and pretended to use it. Unknown to me, there was an old duck watching me and she tapped me on the shoulder and started wagging her finger and told me I wasn’t using my phone at all. I told her she could enter the shop in front of me and this quietened her down. A young guy standing behind her said he saw me as well and could he get in front too. I only had two words for him, and one of those was off.
      Doesn’t this COVID crap really piss you off!
      
      7 2
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      August 24, 2020 12:18pm
- mandk
  
  I have made complaint to the Advertising Standards Authority about this false advertising.
  
  I’ll post the response here.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:40am
- Hapuku
  
  Out of all the restrictions and impositions on our lives, signing into a venue or business is the least of them.
  
  Whatever your views on lockdowns, borders, etc the least controversial should be assisting with the ability to contact trace. The virus is a nasty little fucker and even if you’re not worried about yourself, how about sparing a thought for other people?
  
  The app is incredibly easy to use and only takes a couple of seconds to record a visit. Just do it and stop being a stubborn old curmudgeon.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:43am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘The virus is a nasty little fucker’
    
    So is ‘flu, but for some reason the world didn’t lose its shit over that mass killer , year in year out.
    
    46 6
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    August 24, 2020 8:50am
    - Saks
      
      Actually, it looks like the flu is even worse from the stats I’m seeing (UK).
      
      17 deaths with covid in nz. How many have died with/from the flu in the same period anyone please?
      
      26 4
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      August 24, 2020 9:44am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Normally we lose 500 a year to flu. So we are 483 dead punters short this year.
        
        Unless we aren’t bothering to put flu deaths all over the news, and having the PM come on the telly every day to go all sad faced at us and telling us that the kindy of 5 million is going to beat flu!
        
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        August 24, 2020 11:18am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Down with Dandruff!
        
        Arrest Athlete’s Foot!!
        
        Conquer Chlamydia!!!
        
        Let’s f***** do this!!!!
        
        6 0
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        August 24, 2020 5:08pm
    - Hapuku
      
      Yes the ‘flu is nasty but covid 19 is a step up from that.
      You’re right though, Covid 19 has a relatively low death rate and particularly affects older people with existing problems. So if you look at how much disruption a fairly low-risk virus has, can you imagine the disruption if we got something like the Spanish flu which affected mainly the young and healthy?
      
      Why not take the Taiwan approach? They got a scare with SARS and MERS and instituted an effective plan (with contact tracing a central plank) to counter any further pandemics. We should do the same.
      
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      August 24, 2020 9:58am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        “So if you look at how much disruption a fairly low-risk virus has, can you imagine the disruption if we got something like the Spanish flu which affected mainly the young and healthy?”
        
        The Spanish Flu caused disruption because that illness was objectively lethal. In contrast, the only disruption associated with Covid-19 is the irrational and out-of-all-proportion response that has been taken by governments.
        
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        August 24, 2020 5:16pm
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Well no. Covid is obviously not a “step up” frmo flu. Clearly a bit of a cough for anyone who isn’t old, and isn’t already sick, or isn’t a fat bastard with co-morbidities.
        
        That is what it objectively means. For most people it turns out to be a sniffle.
        
        For that we have closed the borders, borrowed $54 billion and tanked our economy.
        
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        August 25, 2020 8:29am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    thats sheeple mentality that only listen to anything from the podium of truth.
    its idealogy like this that is creeping in and slowly brainwashing the masses, one day in the next decade or 2 ppl like you will be cowering at home in fear hoping for ppl like me to fight for your freedoms you so willingly surrendered.
    
    If no one questions authority that leaves them free to do anything.
    
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    August 24, 2020 9:06am
    - Hapuku
      
      I always find it interesting when people talk about ‘sheeple’. When I go surfing if you see all the surfers around you suddenly start paddling out to sea, it’s usually a really good idea to start paddling as well, regardless if you can see a big set coming or not. Sometimes being a sheep is a good thing.
      
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      August 24, 2020 10:05am
      - wimpston peeeders
        
        surfers are generally stoned morons with nothing better to do so thats a very poor example.
        
        4 11
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        August 24, 2020 10:48am
      - Hapuku
        
        Haha, maybe you should get out more?
        
        9 1
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        August 24, 2020 10:56am
      - wimpston peeeders
        
        I would get out more mate but the govt dosent want me too, well not without unlawful contact tracing and giving up civil liberties
        
        10 3
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        August 24, 2020 11:32am
  - dcrane
    
    Pizza shop near me had a pen and paper for writing down names. Probably for those not using the app. I have no problem with that. Keeping track of where we’re going is going to be a key tool for avoiding Level 3/4 lockdowns from now on, that is if the government gets its act together.
    
    11 3
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    August 24, 2020 9:25am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Just for info, I had a quick look at the sign in register at a place I went to. I would guess based on the names and numbers (there was even an M. Mouse name, brings back old memories about petitions…) that around a quarter to a third or so were “fakes” or meaningless rubbish. Mobile number 021 234 5678 probably doesn’t exist for example.
      
      I was also able to photograph said pages to get the contact information for the genuine entries, and what’s the betting that other people who may not (as I did) just delete the photos have twigged to this as well ?
      
      Anyone else notice the same sort of falseness about the paper registers or is it just the dodgy nature of the shop (a bookshop btw) I used as an example ?
      
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      August 24, 2020 10:12am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Ooh, what sort of ‘books’??
        
        5 1
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        August 24, 2020 12:17pm
      - dcrane
        
        Hmm good points.
        
        2 1
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        August 24, 2020 3:07pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Don’t worry, a healthy diet of creams buns and pies makes you Covid-19 resistant, according to Megan Woods.
    
    There is a post on facebook, of Megan Woods, Minister in charge of Managed Isolation and Quarantine Covid-19 facilities, at the campaign tent of Reuben Davidson, huddled up close to a couple of supporters for a photo shot. So no social distancing, and none of whom are wearing face makes. Same as Cindy did during the previous lockdown, and also closely following the activities of David Clark.
    
    No seniors in the CoL follow the rules because they all know that Covid-19 is impotent here in NZ.
    
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    August 24, 2020 10:18am
- mikenmildagain
  
  went to go take my wee boy to mcdonalds and it was next level covid retardation, long story short the **** at the kiosk in the door got a tirade of abuse and my boy went without his mcnuggets.
  
  What a horrible example to set for your son.
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:03am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Standing up to peer pressure instead of being goaded into doing something silly, is an important lesson that kids need to learn.
    
    31 4
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    August 24, 2020 9:55am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Did that moral high ground need to be supported by the ‘tirade of abuse’?
      
      8 22
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      August 24, 2020 10:36am
      - Hapuku
        
        He probably clicks his fingers at waiters as well
        
        8 5
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        August 24, 2020 10:58am
    - Steve Todd
      
      No wee boys should ever see their fathers having a childish tantrum in public.
      
      13 2
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      August 24, 2020 10:58am
      - wimpston peeeders
        
        nothing childish about it, the childish adults were inside macas seated socially distant and listening to teacher. I had a logical adult reaction to being treated like a preschooler, wash your hands and tell teacher whats your name and address… youre a retard if you allow yourself to be talked down to by a minimum wage burger flipper.
        
        my 5yr old son has more wits about him then anyone in the labour party, we havnt sugar coated anything for a kids and they get taught the real ins and outs of life and what needs to be done to survive in this world.
        
        7 5
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        August 24, 2020 11:43am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        wimpston
        Sounds like you have been taking parenting lessons from Donald Trump Jr:
        https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/925495970032443392
        
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        August 24, 2020 1:15pm
- Aunty
  
  Private businesses I would have thought are perfectly entitled to refuse entry and or service to whoever they choose, just so long as it is not done on grounds that are prohibited under the Bill of Rights and the discrimination laws.
  
  If a business requires you to use the Covid app or to sign a register before permitting you entry to their premises, and you refuse, then they are perfectly entitled to kick your sorry arse to the kerb. And good on them too.
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:15am
- Random T Person
  
  I just scribble some gobbledegook in the book and carry on as normal. Though I have just decided not to go into a number of shops and avoid the whole thing that way.
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:47am
- Pharmachick
  
  Errrr… Its illegal not to accept cash – its the legal tender of the land. Unless the govt. has changed the law (I doubt it)…
  
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  August 24, 2020 11:21am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    countdown supermarket here is the same, no cash transactions in lvl 2 but they make an exception when you goto walk off leaving a trolley load of groceries at the checkout.
    
    14 2
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    August 24, 2020 11:46am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s covered by Ardern’s mouthworks. The Rule of Law has been abandoned since she became PM. First she wiped out Taranaki, next Maori got the nod to do as they please, now she playing mother of the nation and keeping us in our playpen.
    
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    August 24, 2020 12:22pm
  - Pheobe
    
    That is exactly what I have been saying, when I lost/misplaced my card and was waiting for the new one to arrive, cash was all I had.
    
    5 1
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    August 24, 2020 1:32pm
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    The law relating to ‘legal tender’ is a bit murky. Some legislation (Reserve Bank Act?) defines what legal tender is but there are no clear legal rules about what the consequences are.
    
    I think if you owe a debt and you offer cash in payment of that debt, the other party (probably) cannot take you to court for non-payment if they refuse your cash. But if no contract has been formed at the point payment is offered, which is the typical retail situation, the other party can refuse to trade with you if you insist on paying cash.
    
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    August 24, 2020 1:51pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      Thanks Nigel, that makes sense. I was going to look it up, but decided to spend my Sunday summer afternoon riding a horse instead 😊.
      
      When most of these laws were enacted, there’s no way the lawmakers (and drafters) at the time could have foreseen electronic payments. This being said, Phoebe has an extremely valid point, and Wimpston: WELL DONE THAT MAN.
      
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      August 24, 2020 2:24pm
  - IC5000
    
    Didn’t you hear Taxvinda is responsible for covid because she wanted to get rid of cash and institute electronic only transactions in NZ with the assistance of Soros thus ushering in an age of darkness over NZ
    
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    August 24, 2020 7:21pm
Kiwi_in_Paris

Winston Churchill’s 1945 speech on Marxism is amazingly accurate today. He even talks about people’s ability to breathe freely being stifled by a harsh clumsy tyrannical hand lashed across their mouths and nostrils. They will dictate what to say and do, even where to queue. Political police. Civil servants not being civil or servants. Uncannily accurate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TY7oUNobsY

https://spartacus-educational.com/001945EX.jpg
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August 24, 2020 8:03am
- Justitia
  
  Thanks Kiwi for this premonition of New Zealand in 3 years time.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:33am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The premonition for Ardern is not good. Even some big stores are making the demanded adherence optional. Pleasing to encounter and a sign that thin phony COL govt. will not last much longer.
    
    20 4
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    August 24, 2020 9:03am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      The thin phony thin pony’s government?
      
      9 3
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      August 24, 2020 9:37am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Churchill’s warning of a Labour ‘Gestapo’ was widely considered to have damaged the Conservative campaign. Atlee publicly thanked Churchill for demonstrating unsuitability for peacetime office.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:43am
  - Aunty
    
    Atlee who?
    
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    August 24, 2020 9:34am
  - amospicton
    
    Churchill beat the Nazis, Atlee beat Churchill. Jacinda beat the virus (ahem), Collins beats Jacinda?
    
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    August 24, 2020 9:57am
    - Isobar
      
      Not sure if you want that approach – remember Churchill was re-elected after Attlee’s government failed early in it’s second term due to running out of ideas and being deeply unpopular with the public.
      
      6 1
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      August 24, 2020 1:46pm
      - kowtow
        
        From Andrew Roberts’ biography .
        
        ” The important point about Churchill in 1940 is not that he stopped a German invasion that year ,but that he stopped the British govt from making peace”
        
        Gallipoli and however many other instances in his long public life notwithstanding I think that sentence says more than enough.
        
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        August 24, 2020 2:53pm
- yossarian
  
  I may get offside with a few folk here, but I never thought much of Churchill. He made some fantastic speeches, and even Roosevelt said he could listen to him all day (remind you of someone else we all know). Yet he stood back while the Russians were doing all the actual fighting, and only really entered the fray when he had the backing of the US.
  
  “We will fight them on the beaches…” is no different to the “Team of 5 Million….” a whole lot of words.
  
  Again sorry to offend people, and I expect a whole lot of down ticks, but how he treated our boys at Gallipoli should have been the end of him.
  
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  August 24, 2020 10:07am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    An inspirational figure do doubt, but he so wrong on many great matters in both war and peace.
    
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    August 24, 2020 10:38am
    - yossarian
      
      Well you and shall agree today. I like to think as once a buddy open side flanker, that I played the ball, not the man.
      
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      August 24, 2020 12:42pm
      - Jack5
        
        The Gallipoli amphibious landing was a group decision, though the idea came from Churchill.
        
        For an analysis of the Gallipoli strategy at the US Defense Department-funded National Defense University Press, go to the link below.
        
        A taste:
        
        At the end of August 1914, Churchill formally requested that Secretary of State for War Field Marshal Herbert Kitchener organize a group of naval and military officers to plan for the seizure of the Gallipoli Peninsula, “with a view to admitting a British Fleet to the Sea of Marmara” and eventually knocking Turkey out of the war.
        
        Representatives of the War Office and the Admiralty met and concluded that an attack on the Gallipoli Peninsula was not a militarily feasible operation.
        
        Director of Military Operations Major General Charles Callwell presciently observed that a campaign in Gallipoli was “likely to prove an extremely difficult operation of war.”
        
        He proffered that an operation in the Dardanelles would require a force of not less than 60,000, with strong siege artillery, echeloned into Turkey in two large waves.
        
        Kitchener also disagreed with opening a second front, but for different reasons. He was reluctant to divert troops from the continent, which he viewed as the primary focus of effort for the British.
        
        A dichotomy of opinion thus emerged: the politicians advocated for a second front on the Gallipoli Peninsula, while senior military officers argued against intervention in Turkey. The debate continued into winter.
        
        The dynamic changed on January 1, 1915, when Russia formally requested a “naval or military demonstration against the Turks to ease the pressure caused by the Turkish offensive driving through the Caucasus Mountains.”
        
        British decisionmakers debated the Russian request and the larger issue of the future strategic direction of the war effort during a series of War Council meetings in early January.
        
        The council decided that the British would continue to fight side by side with France on the Western Front, and the Admiralty would, commencing in February 1915, prepare operations “to invade and take the Gallipoli Peninsula, with Constantinople as its objective.”
        
        https://ndupress.ndu.edu/Media/News/Article/621138/the-gallipoli-campaign-learning-from-a-mismatch-of-strategic-ends-and-means/
        
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        August 24, 2020 2:03pm
  - Hapuku
    
    I read his 4 volume History of Britain. Great writer as well as orator. Had many talents as well as many flaws but I always liked to think that the talents outweighed the flaws.
    
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    August 24, 2020 11:05am
  - kowtow
    
    The Brits fought the Axis where ever they could .
    
    Burma for example , btw the Russians were conspirators with the Nazis over Poland and hung back to allow the Nazis to destroy the Warsaw up rising , and they only joined the fray against the Jappos when it suited them.
    
    Meanwhile the Empire was fighting the Axis in Greece , Syria , Lebanon , Egypt , Iraq , Libya , Tunis , then Sicily and Italy.
    
    The US wanted to open a French front as early as they could across the Channel but it was Churchill who kept them from going too early , and had they it would have been a disaster , as the Dieppe raid proved .
    
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    August 24, 2020 12:29pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/04/churchill-policies-blamed-1943-bengal-famine-study-190401155922122.html
    
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    August 24, 2020 2:26pm
    - kowtow
      
      All the blame on the great man himself , but no mention of:
      
      16 .10.42 cyclone destroyed Bengal and Orissa rice crop.
      
      Local administration , elected under 1935 India Act were corrupt and negligent in dealing with that emergency .
      
      Local rice merchants and retailers seeing soaring rice prices hoarded supplies.
      
      Churchill ordered shipping supplies diverted to provisde relief ( this couldn’t be done due to war pressures)
      
      That his cabinet ordered grain from Australia and Iraq for relief.
      
      That in past famines shortfalls in Indian crops was made from supplies from Burma and other South east Asian countries , but guess what the Japs had a say in what was happening in those parts of the world.
      
      Oh and the Punjab govt also under local control refused to sell to the central govt grain under a certain price.
      
      But it’s all Churchill’s fault.
      
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      August 24, 2020 3:19pm
- SB2
  
  The PM has never politicised the shootings No less so Kiwi than Chruchill’s ,” We will fight them on the beaches …”
  
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  August 24, 2020 10:27am
  - septic skeptic
    
    I gave you an uptick because your post reads so badly I can’t understand what you are trying to say – which is pretty good for one of your posts.
    
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    August 24, 2020 11:57am
    - Jack5
      
      SNB2’s words are in English, but the idiom is Stephiestani.
      
      6 1
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      August 24, 2020 2:06pm
wimpston peeeders

Looks like even bloomfield dosent know how a nasal swab should be done 🙂 this dude isnt the most liveliest of youtubers but offers a different perspective in his vids and a couple of home truths here and there.
https://youtu.be/6AIJvmwYHM8
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August 24, 2020 8:04am
artemisia

ECE headline in Stuff today –

Early childhood teachers taking out loans to live, new study finds

And in the article –

“Teachers looking after New Zealand’s youngest children are being forced to take out loans to live …. a new study has found”

Maybe the 4000 person survey carried out by ChildForum found a lot of examples of borrowing to live or maybe the journalist Laura Wiltshire, is cherrypicking for a headline, because –

“One teacher reported not being able to afford to live on the current income, and was having to take out loans to meet childcare and living costs.”

The survey results don’t seem to be readily available online, yet anyway, but the thrust of the article is veering towards more pay please. Plenty of demand for ECE teachers at the moment, while thousands more are jobless each week. Sorry, not sorry.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/122538187/early-childhood-teachers-taking-out-loans-to-live-new-study-finds
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August 24, 2020 8:10am
Peter Lane

Predictions about today’s decision? I hope I’m wrong but the continual disregard for ailing businesses will probably have Ardern listening to Mr 80000 Dead and his cohorts. I expect another two weeks of this.

As I say, I hope like hell I’m wrong.
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August 24, 2020 8:10am
- igm
  
  Good to see many Aucklanders giving her the single finger salute at the weekend . . . she not even being worthy of that.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:13am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Are you referring to the approximately 100 hundred protesters on Saturday?
    
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    August 24, 2020 8:44am
    - JibberJabber
      
      Heh, it’s not like you to be ignorant of reality Mikey. 🤔
      Thousands of Aucklanders enjoyed the weekend in the sun at the beaches and parks from Orewa to Bucklands.
      Hey Jacinda. 🖕
      
      36 1
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      August 24, 2020 9:03am
      - SB2
        
        She never said you couldn’t relax and visit a neighbouring beach so olng as you maintain social distancring rules which my experience showed most did
        
        5 18
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        August 24, 2020 10:29am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Milky, the real protest is hundreds of thousands silently ignoring the stupid suggestion by Taxinda to generally wear masks outside.
        
        People on beaches and streets were flipping the bird to the ‘wear masks outside’ bullshit. We know the difference between 2m and ‘close contact’ FFS!! We also know that wellbeing involves not feeling trapped, communicating with others, smiling at others, breathing fresh air.
        
        She should never have made such an extreme suggestion and neither should Judith!!
        
        At the most, close contact areas might ask it, but preferably still on a voluntary basis.
        
        13 3
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        August 24, 2020 10:31am
      - JibberJabber
        
        LoL, Steffy ” your experience”, I’m your sure mum has been practicing “social distancing” from you since she confined you to the basement.
        
        11 3
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        August 24, 2020 12:24pm
    - Bobba Fret
      
      There were more people at Mission Bay
      
      16 0
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      August 24, 2020 9:55am
      - SB2
        
        I was there too with most maintaining social distancing rules and many wearing masks
        
        3 15
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        August 24, 2020 10:30am
      - septic skeptic
        
        They would be far better advised to tell people to reserve their masks for public transport and other crowded spaces. Unless you have an unlimited supply you will waste it walking around outside metres away from anyone. It will be less effective when needed.
        
        8 1
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        August 24, 2020 12:09pm
      - JibberJabber
        
        SB2, *cough, cough* BS…
        
        9 4
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        August 24, 2020 12:25pm
      - sooty
        
        Some peoples masks were bigger than their bikini!
        
        0 0
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        August 24, 2020 7:42pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Typical Labour supporter – has issues with numbers. Must be that roving decimal point again
      
      4 1
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      August 24, 2020 2:55pm
- Ruawai
  
  Predict all NZ will stay the same levels until Monday, then Auckland to level 2 with road blocks remaining and rest of NZ to level 1 with no gatherings of more than 100.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:18am
  - igm
    
    -1
    
    2 7
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    August 24, 2020 8:26am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Level 3 to Monday 31 March is the consensus of opinion of those I have been speaking to today. Which is a bugger.
    I am not sure an extension of level 3 will be greeted with the Hallelujah Chorus by many except those doom merchants employed by the Universities.
    
    4 1
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    August 24, 2020 2:33pm
- Poppa
  
  I believe they will have no option but to lower the levels. They will be leaking votes every day this continues.
  
  I will be interested in how they spin it, not what the message is
  
  50 2
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  August 24, 2020 8:18am
  - artemisia
    
    I thought this was a great example of spin on (non) border testing.
    
    “We have picked up on reluctance among staff”
    
    Can’t argue with that, and fans will just ignore the data. But at each spin a few more will think trust but verify.
    
    26 2
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    August 24, 2020 8:37am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Usefully non specific: ‘picked up on a reluctance’ could mean one or two grumbles. Can mean whatever they need it to mean.
      
      10 1
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      August 24, 2020 10:36am
  - Ruawai
    
    JA spin will be she will lower the levels but change the rules so level 2 will now have level 3 rules. JA will also tell us if we behave and are good children she will let us out to play so will further have people wanting to comply.
    
    30 2
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    August 24, 2020 8:54am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  the decision will be likely infuenced by internal polling numbers.
  cindys not doing this for public health shes doing it for the labour party.
  
  47 3
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  August 24, 2020 8:18am
- cmm
  
  Dr/Prof 80k to you.
  
  Funded through your wallet in so many ways:
  1) Subsidies to Auckland Uni.
  2) Via Ministry of Transport benevolence.
  
  28 3
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  August 24, 2020 8:19am
- Inandout
  
  Peter, if it does go on then you can kiss goodbye to scores of businesses. The ‘gang of three’ Ministers running this country wouldn’t know a GST return if they tripped over it.
  
  46 2
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  August 24, 2020 8:21am
  - igm
    
    The PTPM does not know the difference between GST, CGT, CPI, etc . . . how could anyone with a bit of sanity vote for such drongos.
    
    35 4
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    August 24, 2020 8:51am
  - Ruawai
    
    @ inandout. Grant probably hasn’t realised he will have massively lower provisional company tax coming in next year as businesses and landlord have significantly lower incomes.
    
    20 2
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    August 24, 2020 8:59am
    - Ruahine
      
      Does not matter I have been told by my Labour insider. Adrian Orr has plenty of money to give to Robertson apparently.
      
      10 2
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      August 24, 2020 10:31am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Greens: ‘so steal their assets, one slice per year’.
      
      6 1
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      August 24, 2020 10:38am
- Simon
  
  “Predictions about today’s decision?”
  
  What is happening is that Auckland CBD is finished. The works, fucked up Queen St, rates increases, the roads are a mess.
  
  Around 25% of the work force that normally travels to CBD will never return as they now work from home. The normal person who works in CBD drives as close to the CBD as they can. They take the bus or train in for the last bit. Now many dont have to go through this bull shit anymore.
  
  All of Auckland Shitty Council’s white elephants like the sub way can be closed down. There is no need for them.
  
  Apart from Sky City & Viaduct in the evening no one goes to Auckland CBD out of choice. Its finished.
  
  Auckland CBD is a shit hole.
  
  57 3
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  August 24, 2020 8:33am
  - Inandout
    
    Simon, Auckland could be a tourist attraction on the basis of its similarity to New York. Armoured buses could drive around the CBD and show the passengers what a ruined city looks like. The council offices will be boarded up as all local body staff will be ‘working’ from home. Building inspectors will use drones to look at sites and all fees will be paid online. The leftist dream will have been revealed.
    
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    August 24, 2020 8:52am
  - bruceavon
    
    Apart from all that it’s good though
    
    7 7
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    August 24, 2020 8:55am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Auckland also grew around seashore and up the hill. That time is over.
    
    10 3
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    August 24, 2020 9:09am
  - alloytoo
    
    The second lock down is causing many employers to have very serious look at their office over head.
    
    Many will be embracing work from home.
    
    Without the commuters and the cruise liners CBD will be left with those who actually live in the CBD, that won’t keep high street open.
    
    15 1
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    August 24, 2020 9:16am
  - Ruahine
    
    Could be the basis for an upcoming movie blockbuster by Fran and Peter Jackson.
    “Escape from Auckland” Starring Karel Sroubek and Clarke Gayford.
    
    19 1
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    August 24, 2020 10:34am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Name? “Ground Zero”
    
    3 1
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    August 24, 2020 2:59pm
- Flossie
  
  I think levels will drop as “Clearly we have circled this outbreak” but masks will be compulsory. She just knows how unpopular this lockdown is making her.
  
  22 2
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  August 24, 2020 8:47am
  - dcrane
    
    Govt should have been recommending masks/distancing/etc when in close contact for months now, so that we never had to go to Level 3 again. But they probably feared the blowback and just wanted to get past the election first.
    
    6 2
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    August 24, 2020 9:29am
    - septic skeptic
      
      The government should have ensured tighter quarantine.
      
      6 1
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      August 24, 2020 12:15pm
- Fletch
  
  I reckon that if we do go down to Level 2, it won’t be until midnight Wednesday.
  
  9 1
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  August 24, 2020 9:02am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Shaun Hendy would probably like us to go back to level 4 for 2 months just to be sure!
  How the hell did he calculate a possible 80,000 deaths????
  
  14 1
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  August 24, 2020 10:00am
  - BeeJay
    
    It’s all very well for Shaun Hendy proposing the Govt to prolong lockdown and even going back to level 4! He’s got a fucking job!
    
    15 0
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    August 24, 2020 10:47am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      That’s right. I wish he would just shut up and the govt should find a new “expert”.
      
      7 1
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      August 24, 2020 11:54am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Is he included in the 20% pay reduction Cindy announced a few months ago? The one that was to demonstrate leadership. The one that never happened. What clearer example of Ardern’s leadership could you ever see.
      
      4 1
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      August 24, 2020 12:20pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Bryce Edwards asks some important questions and links to a number of articles detailing the Government’s botch-ups.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300089361/political-roundup-how-serious-are-the-governments-border-botchups
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August 24, 2020 8:11am
- Peter Lane
  
  Yes unusually balanced article from a guy who’s usually a Labour fan boy.
  
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  December 24, 2019 8:12am
Scott

This statement was released a few days ago by Don Brash –
“Once again, we are seeing appalling examples of Maori tribes taking the law into their own hands, and putting barriers around what they refer to as “their territory”, Hobson’s Pledge spokesman Don Brash said today.

“In the last week, we’ve seen a resurgence of this nonsense in Northland, in the Eastern Bay of Plenty and in the Ruapehu area,” Dr Brash said.

“All New Zealanders should be reminded that it is only the lawfully elected Government which has the power to impose barriers to travel on public highways,” he said.

“In the absence of such Government-determined barriers, such as those around Auckland at present, all other public roads must be free for all New Zealanders to travel on,” he said.

“What are the political parties which claim to believe in the legal equality of all New Zealanders saying about this clearly illegal activity?” Dr Brash said.”
http://www.voxy.co.nz/politics/5/371575

Unfortunately this website was one of the few to publish Mr Brash’s remarks. I can see on Google search no recent reference to Maori roadblocks. The mainstream media is just not covering this.

To me it is outrageous that there is one law for Maori people who can organise roadblocks in the same region that everyone else is locked down!
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August 24, 2020 8:13am
- David George
  
  I engaged (online) with one of these ethno nationalists on the road blocks issue when we were in level four lock-down. He was adamant that the laws didn’t apply to them (something about never having conceded sovereignty) and they, therefore, had every right to disrupt and intimidate every one else.
  It’s obvious the covid thing is great cover, an excuse, for the pursuit of their radical agenda. Was there any reasonable risk that a rabid covid carrier was going to burst into granny’s house and infect the old dear? Only the naive and willfully blind (i.e.our government) would fall for that bullshit.
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:03am
- dcrane
  
  Since we have courts officially backing the government’s decision to ignore the law with the 1st lockdown, I guess it’s up to the locals to decide what’s necessary there. /s
  
  8 1
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  August 24, 2020 9:31am
- Ruahine
  
  Labour which is basically a gang showing their sympathies. For Labour, laws are there to be used against people that they can bully and who they do not like.
  
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  August 24, 2020 10:42am
Komata

CaptainM@0800

So that Dear Leader can make the most of the opportunity to show that she REALLY cares (and knows how to wear a hijab as well; ‘stylishly’ and ‘gracefully…’), and can ‘catch’ the muslim votes for the forthcoming election, and as all statements will have to be translated into arabic she will have plenty of time to show her ‘caring’ (and best photogenic) side to the adoring, rapturous (sychophantic and bought for $50 million) media…

Those would be the reasons IMHO…
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August 24, 2020 8:13am
Don Beckett

Wearing masks is a crock – don’t wear one.

https://realclimatescience.com/2020/08/who-dont-wear-a-mask/
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August 24, 2020 8:14am
- Don Beckett
  
  This guy agrees that masks can be dangerous.
  
  https://realclimatescience.com/2020/08/anders-tegnell-wearing-masks-is-very-dangerous/
  
  18 3
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  August 24, 2020 8:15am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Got any reason why someone should take medical advice from a website that is completely wrong about its alleged expertise in climate science?
  
  5 53
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  August 24, 2020 8:18am
  - cmm
    
    What makes you “feel” they’re wrong about climate science?
    
    36 4
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    August 24, 2020 8:26am
    - mandk
      
      mma is a smart-arse, know-it-all, who works for the government.
      
      How could he possibly be wrong?
      
      36 6
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      August 24, 2020 8:43am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      The overwhelming weight of evidence…
      
      5 41
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      August 24, 2020 8:45am
      - JibberJabber
        
        CO2 does not store heat. Scientific fact.
        
        15 3
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        August 24, 2020 9:14am
      - Doc Holliday
        
        JibberJabber
        
        (1) All molecules vibrating or moving are storing energy – heat. But that is irrelevant to AGW.
        (2) CO2 absorbs infrared radiation and immediately re-radiates it in all directions. At the top of the atmosphere some to space. As more CO2 is added to the atmosphere the level this happens rises to where the air is cooler. Radiation is related to the fourth power of the temperature, so to radiate the same energy the temperature must rise.
        
        Hope this helps. 🙂
        
        4 5
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        August 24, 2020 1:10pm
  - Simon
    
    And MM would take medical advice from the mongs in Wellington who believed the fake science of 80,000 dying.
    
    47 4
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    August 24, 2020 8:36am
  - Local Miller
    
    You did notice of course MMA that all the website was doing was quoting WHO and Anders Tegnell, and that they weren’t claiming this themselves?
    Oh no, probably not, unless you actually went to the site to read the post.
    
    13 3
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    August 24, 2020 9:10am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Yeah, a WHO Facebook post from early this year. So what?
      
      2 12
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      August 24, 2020 10:40am
- cmm
  
  All the research I have seen on masks is tainted by the assumptions that are made during the tests.
  
  The usefulness of a mask is not symmetric: what works to keep an infected person from coughing out bugs is very different from what works for keeping a well person from being infected by bugs.
  
  What makes sense in an infectious hospital situation is very different from what makes sense in the street.
  
  Mostly though they seem to just be one of the props in the Covid theatre.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:25am
- SB2
  
  Bulls wool! And of course, the need while wearing them maintaining social distancing rules
  
  Real climate science = crock science!
  
  3 14
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  August 24, 2020 10:34am
- Flossie
  
  I thought you were going to say wearing a hijab is a crock!
  
  9 2
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  August 24, 2020 10:47am
Maggy Wassilieff

Tonga learns from NZ Labour

https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/424255/mystery-surrounds-tonga-s-plan-for-houses-for-poor
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August 24, 2020 8:17am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  instead of sending millions in aid we should donate phil twyford
  
  39 3
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  August 24, 2020 8:20am
I remember when

I have never seen the point of victim impact reports. If those left behind feel it allows some closure, then well and good.
Perhaps it is the media that is the problem, should they be private and personal. Does showing them on TV,etc, trivialise them?
When, as in the Tarrant case, there are 60 of them, does it play into his hands?
The point of the Law is to be fair and impartial. As soon as emotion becomes part of the trial I think it loses some of objectivity.
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August 24, 2020 8:19am
- Flossie
  
  Have to ask IRW. Have you – or anyone close to you – been the victim of serious crime? The victim impact report is a vital part of the healing process.
  And as far as paying for overseas victims’ costs, it’s what they do for victims all the time.
  
  10 1
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  August 24, 2020 9:12am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Nobody is forced to make an impact statement and presumably therefore those who do make them, do so because they believe it will help them to feel better. I would imagine also, though I don’t know this for sure, that a statement would not be shown on tv or otherwise published if the victim making the statement didn’t want it to be.
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:12am
greybeard

https://nzawards.org.nz/
Michael Morrah.
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August 24, 2020 8:19am
- mikenmildagain
  
  A good journalist,sure, but you know the winner will be Mittens!
  
  11 14
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  August 24, 2020 8:46am
  - Jack5
    
    Milky’s right. Mittens should purr in.
    
    The February 2020 winner of this PR event run by Kiwibank was Jennifer Ward-Lealand Te Atamira, an actress. She champions expanding everyday use of Maori, and was chosen over Peter Beck, the space tech entrepreneur.
    
    Farmer Jim Bolger, champion of forming Kiwibank and a suspected background shadow in the Todd Miller fiasco, was one of the judges.
    
    This year’s favourite candidate, Mittens, could be be a clear winner next February, but will Bolger vote for a townie cat that can’t speak Maori?
    
    https://nypost.com/2020/08/22/meet-mittens-the-cat-running-for-new-zealander-of-the-year/
    
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    August 24, 2020 11:52am
niggly

Noticed the Prime Imposter is missing from her regular Monday morning media appearances again.

Which means she can’t be held to account for their Covid response stuff-ups that emerged over the weekend (eg essential workers blocked from entering/leaving Auckland and millions of bees starving to death etc).

Instead no doubt she’ll re-emerge tomorrow (after her announcement on Covid level restrictions later this afternoon) to discuss Cabinet’s decision to (presumably) lift the restrictions, if so, it’ll be a “good news” interview scenario.

Not good enough! For someone being paid half-a-million dollars a year, and supposedly leading NZ’s “most open and transparent government” the PM shouldn’t be “hiding” (behind a bad news mountain) for when it all goes away and the topic becomes “good news”.

Until this changes, the term Prime Imposter seems to be rather fitting!
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August 24, 2020 8:21am
plc

Interesting article in Telegraph

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/22/new-zealands-lust-lockdown-latest-example-vapid-political-virtue/

Not implanted from NZ based media fanboi/gal
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August 24, 2020 8:21am
- kowtow
  
  Our media really went into over drive to counter the NZ lock down hell hole theme , but the same media, TV3 , did a very long item on the thousands turning up for food handouts at various charities due to the hellish circumstances created for the poor by the …… lock down.
  
  It’s as if a schizophrenic is in charge of the editorial team.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:57am
  - plc
    
    The funny thing is most drove to pick up their free food
    
    16 2
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    August 24, 2020 10:19am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      And more than a few were in pretty nice cars.
      
      9 1
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      August 24, 2020 11:53am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    “It’s as if a schizophrenic is in charge of the editorial team.”
    
    Are they making an attempt at balance?
    
    8 3
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    August 24, 2020 10:48am
- Happychappy
  
  Its obvious by the reply from many that they don’t rate or like Jacinda Ardern policy or her politics.
  
  13 2
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  August 24, 2020 9:49am
- SB2
  
  plc The UK PM and covid,
  
  Of course the PM deserves a holiday, but he needs to get a grip and stop this pattern of incompetence, indecisiveness and scapegoating
  
  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/08/21/chairman-boris-needs-take-back-control-government/
  
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  August 24, 2020 10:45am
Simon

Auckland Shitty Council is insolvent.

They either go into Administration or the RBNZ starts out right printing for them.

(Auckland Shitty issues say $1 billion bond. RBNZ with a mouse click credits their bank account. )

All those rates and in the end RBNZ will print them some funds.
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August 24, 2020 8:24am
- JibberJabber
  
  What did you think was going to happen when the Labour Govt of Jacinda Ardern crashed the economy?
  40% of Aucklands income came from the Ports of Auckland and Auckland International Airport.
  Ratepayers are going to have to pick up that slack, lay the blame on Ardern and Robertsons’ utter incompetence and lack of financial nous where it (mostly) belongs.
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:56am
Maggie Pie

Trending on twitter…

Election Billboard removed from eastern side of local Novotel.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgD27rAX0AEF-B_?format=png&name=small
40 3
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August 24, 2020 8:28am
- Justitia
  
  I feel sorry for Ashley. An earnest public servant in charge of a notoriously incompetent department, which possesses no operational experience or capability, who appears to have been seduced by the bright lights of media stardom and the blandishments of cynical careerists into the ugly bear-pit of politics. He may well find himself abandoned or sacrificed whenever his masters find it convenient or advantageous to do so. Take a few steps back Ashley before it’s too late.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:51am
- RJ
  
  I’m waiting for Jacinda to announce her engagement to him, would bring in more votes than that other guy, what’s his name.
  
  38 3
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  August 24, 2020 8:56am
Nukuleka

Helen Clark mouths off about how proud she is of the Smokefree policies she promoted during her term as PM whilst at the same time encouraging us to legalise the smoking of that foul smelling weed cannabis.
50 4
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August 24, 2020 8:32am
oldpark

Military vehicles seen arriving at ChristChurch Courthouse. Heavy duty ones . Whats going on .Or is it go figure for World Media Coverage . There is so much to say on such a sad day. Lets hope Coronavirus takes a holiday in ChristChurch Courthouse . Fingers crossed. At least 66 Relatives of the March 15 2019 dead are from all over the World. Many countries have rampant out of control Coronavirus.
One good thing Miss Ardern has allowed all free travel and Hotel expenses compliments of the NZ Taxpayer.Wonder will they also get acknowledged by the tax paid visitors. Just saying .
36 4
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August 24, 2020 8:33am
- Justitia
  
  Welcome to our new permanent residents from faraway and exotic lands. Will there be a haka?
  
  30 4
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  August 24, 2020 8:53am
- RJ
  
  Hmmm, let’s see, nut job Australian shots and kills a large amount of Muslim. Nut job Australian is in court today. Do you really have to ask why all the security? If I was a Muslim nut job and wanted retaliation it would be when nutjob Australian is out of the jail and reachable. Damn sure I wouldn’t go anywhere near Christchurch until nutjob Australian is back in prison cell.
  
  14 2
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  August 24, 2020 8:55am
  - Blackface Twin Reverb
    
    Lol…
    If there is that much of a threat, I’d expect some early morning arrests to be made. Otherwise, its just theater.
    
    10 1
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    August 24, 2020 9:25am
  - kloyd0306
    
    Yep, Australian nut job shoots up city then a Labour government takes away rights of New Zealand law-abiding gun owners.
    
    16 2
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    August 24, 2020 10:04am
- KevO'Brien
  
  If this creates another cluster who do we send the bill too?
  Is it a way of potentially sabotaging the election?
  My trust of this COL has worn out.
  
  17 4
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  August 24, 2020 9:15am
  - Tall Man
    
    You actually had “trust” at some point?
    
    Please elaborate ……
    
    18 3
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    August 24, 2020 9:23am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I’ve been tolerant (sort of) so far. I care for my fufu valve.
      Puketifinao what the Police are doing in Christchurch is an invasion underway?
      
      3 2
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      August 24, 2020 12:26pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    We’ve been told that all the folk attending from overseas have been quarantined for two weeks prior to attending court.
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/423402/christchurch-attack-victims-family-members-from-overseas-in-managed-isolation-before-gunman-s-sentencing
    
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    August 24, 2020 9:26am
Ruawai

I am sick of all the MSM articles beating up Aucklander’s for being at beaches and parks on the weekend. There is no health risk from being in open spaces and good to get out of houses.
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August 24, 2020 8:41am
- cmm
  
  … and a dose of Vit D helps too….
  
  But if you’re going outside and enjoying yourself then you’re not hiding under your bed or watching the neighbours just waiting to hit redial and dob them in.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:54am
Durden

The truth about Covid-19 border (mis)management is dawning on the gullible public and the fawning medi. It is well summarised in article below and under the various links.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300089361/political-roundup-how-serious-are-the-governments-border-botchups

The co-ordination and contracting requirements to acquire and deliver services in place now are built for “peacetime” operations not for “wartime” speed required during this war against Covid-19.
The cabinet says it expects its testing instructions to be executed by the Ministries responsible. This is “King Canute” behaviour by the Cabinet (i.e. the very small group of trusted Ministers) that s So they are doomed to be disappointed whether they acknowledge it or not. And the country is at grave risk.

Having worked within the government sector, it is crazy to even remotely expect the Ministries to be able to deliver on “Cabinet’s expectations” which Ardern and Hipkins talk about expecting during this war against Covid-19.

To deliver anything, the Ministries are mired in slow and complex “peacetime” processes that are built around contracting for services arrangements, created over the years, with main service providers (DHBs etc) which are then required to contract for services with actual service providers. These contracting negotiations are based on complex procurement rules that take forever to implement.

A recent guest post on Kiwiblog lists 15 agencies that are involved in the Covid-19 response. You can imagine the complexities of co-ordination.
https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/08/guest_post_the_15_border_agencies.html

The symptom of this dysfunction is shown in this statement—“Both the Government and the Ministry of Health have struggled to respond to Morrah’s revelations. While confirming that routine testing was indeed not happening, it’s unclear why not, with no real explanation nor apology.

Further investigation suggested the Ministry of Health were not implementing the Government’s orders, but the Government also weren’t telling the public this, and it’s unclear why not. For more on this, see Thomas Manch’s The Covid-19 border testing saga that’s going septic amid ministers’ muddled accounts.”

Unable to deliver, the minstries have no choice except have to engage in pussy footing around realities with obfuscation and downright false reporting.

That the Cabinet cannot read and glean from the reports that will be stating that the Cabinet’s expectations/instructions are undeliverable , but couched in weasel words, causes the “dissonance” the DG of Health refers to. That is the Cabinet’s fault. Dissonance is a weasel word for “you idiots are not listening and understanding”.

A single “wartime” agency with clear control over all resources and nimble processes required to mount a defense is what is required if botch-ups are not to happen. Not the jumbled-wire look of the organisational diagram showing who is involved and who is reporting to who that was published over the weekend.

I can’t see any efforts to creating a responsive structure. Failure at the border is a given.

The Labour party’s only hope is too keep the public scared and fooled until after elections. And for their hordes of rabid supporters to brow-beat anyone who dares to question anything.

The National Party’s only hope is to throw clear sunlight on this situation — bravely, clearly and loudly.
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August 24, 2020 8:46am
- emmess
  
  Brow beat them back
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:06am
cmm

Are the Bluetooth cards really any more use than what we already have available?

The current QR code system is pretty flawed due to:
1) It’s too much of a hassle to use.
2) It does not track how long you were where you were.
3) Too low a precision in time and space.

The Bluetooth card would fix some of that, but:
1) Huge cost and hassle to roll it out.
2) Logistics of rolling out 3 or 4 million devices is massive.
3) Huge maintenance issues fixing firmware bugs etc.

It seems to me that most current phones can provide a better solution without all the drama.

All you need to do is track Wifi access points. Just about wherever there are people there are Wifi hot spots. All you really need to do is sniff for Wifi access points once a minute or so and log the MAC addresses of the APs (say max 5) with the highest signal strength. For completeness, just scan for Bluetooth devices too.

With that you can do a very good match on location and time without all the downsides of QR codes or BT tiles,

Now that solution requires zero infrastructure apart from very simple software development and the back end servers (which are pretty much the same as for the other systems).

If they really want something that works, can be delivered in time and does not cost an arm and a leg, then that would be the best way to go.
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August 24, 2020 8:50am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  why bother at all?
  I suspect if they hand out 5mil covid cards then the 1st week at least 3mil will end up in landfill.
  
  Take personal responsibility, if youre worried then take steps yourself to ensure your safety but dont force it upon those that dont want to.
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:18am
  - septic skeptic
    
    I’m not saying the app, card or whatever should be compulsory but I think you are missing the point. If someone “opts out” and then turns up with a bad case of covid there is no way to effectively contact trace and self isolate people they may have infected. That is regardless of whether the others have opted in and used the app.
    
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    August 24, 2020 12:42pm
- alloytoo
  
  Why not just let google/Apple release their tracking information?
  
  They track it anyway.
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:28am
- bruceavon
  
  Yes. The existing location capability on smart phones can enable people to track exactly where they have been if they get the virus. I lost my iPhone a while ago out shopping with my kids. I just turned on the computer and could see exactly where it was, what shop and where in the shop. People don’t realise the iPhone settings has a most visited function which shows where you have been. Android phones do too. A back packer went missing in Aussie a few years ago. Vanished from a small town. Once his family accessed his google account they tracked him walking out of a bar up the street, into the bush and finally to the edge of a cliff. Also the Grace Millane killers phone showed him going to a spot on the scenic drive. This is already on the phone. The idea we have to carry around something else like a card is ridiculous. I think Bluetooth “handshakes” are problematic too because if you go somewhere like a crowded sports game or a mall you can have countless worthless contacts with Bluetooth they will have to trace.
  
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  August 24, 2020 10:29am
artemisia

About all that money being printed – interesting opinion piece on sharemarket winners and losers today by John Berry in Stuff –

Across the US, Britain, Europe and Japan, $5.6 trillion has been created this year. A trillion of anything is extraordinary. Consider this: a million seconds is 12 days, a billion seconds is 31 years, a trillion seconds is 32,000 years.

Something to think about even in New Zealand which is more in the billions category, but still. Who knew?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/300088736/three-monday-thoughts-sharemarket-winners-and-losers
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August 24, 2020 8:51am
Maggie Pie

Don’t know if anyone else has seen this? But when it popped up on Insta last night, my heart very nearly skipped a beat…..

Nosradamus wrote in the year 1551 :
“There will be a twin year (2020) from which will arise a queen (corona) who will come from the east (China) and who will spread a plague (virus) in the darkness of night, on a country with 7 hills (Italy) and will transform the twilight of man into dust (death), to destroy and ruin the world. It will be the end of the world economy as you know it”.

Bloody hell 🙁
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August 24, 2020 8:55am
- cmm
  
  He also said
  
  “This is good shit, can I have another ounce but just less seeds?”
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:00am
  - Tall Man
    
    But but but aren’t the seeds like perpetual motion ………
    
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    August 24, 2020 5:41pm
- Tony
  
  Don’t believe everything you read online.
  
  https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-coronavirus-nostradamus/false-claim-nostradamus-predicted-the-coronavirus-outbreak-idUSKCN21R388
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:10am
- Nostradamus
  
  Maggie Pie:
  
  Nosradamus wrote in the year 1551
  
  Yes… now that you mention it… it’s coming back to me now 🙂
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:39am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    You’ve survived a lot of viruses!
    
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    August 24, 2020 10:58am
- fernglas
  
  “This claim is unfounded. Reuters found no evidence of this prophecy being written by Nostradamus. Stephane Gerson, Professor of French, French Studies, and History at New York University, told Reuters this text “does not come from Nostradamus’s ‘Prophecies’,” nor from other prognostications made by Nostradamus.”
  But I bet he wishes he had said it.
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:50am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    And if he had said of wrote it, it would be the same gibberish as the rest of his prophecies…
    
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    August 24, 2020 10:43am
- Tall Man
  
  Humour is lacking here to day Maggie.
  
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  August 24, 2020 5:39pm
cmm

Dear Islanders

Remember the $1bn of lollies we said we would send you?

Yeah, well something came up.

Question: Why are we imposing an extra $1bn burden on NZ employers and employees to pretend that the Pacific Islands nations are viable?
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August 24, 2020 8:58am
- JimBobJoe
  
  1/South Auckland votes
  2/Trying to hold back the CCP influence tide in the South Pacific
  
  1 being most likely
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:35am
- kowtow
  
  Looks good at the U N.
  
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  August 24, 2020 3:57pm
Dave Mann

I’m seriously thinking of getting a megaphone and either driving around or selecting a crowded spot in Auckland to deliver a quick hard hitting slogan. Something like “End the lockdown NOW… we are being conned and controlled” or “Let’s take back our lives before we become slaves. End these lockdowns NOW!”

I’m serious. But I can’t just walz into a store and buy a megaphone like I could back when we had a free society and shops an’ stuff…
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August 24, 2020 8:59am
- fernglas
  
  Roll up your copy of Socialist Worker into a conical shape and use it to amplify your slogan shouting. If you get negative feedback, you simply roll it back into a tight tube and use it to thrash the dissidents.
  
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  August 24, 2020 9:52am
  - Dave Mann
    
    @fernglas: thanks for the helpful suggestion. At least I’m trying to put my money where my mouth is. As well as posting here – which is largely preaching to the converted – I’ve been on the Liberty March (admittedly a bit of a fizzer, but hey at least we tried) and I’m sending texts to people and also ringing up Magic Talkback.
    
    Unless the ordinary citizens are prepared to stand up and resist these fucking Marxist fearmongers we will lose our country and our freedom.
    
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    August 24, 2020 1:21pm
- Alex13
  
  Maybe you could use the lockdown time to learn how to waltz?
  
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  August 24, 2020 12:59pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Or be like cindy and dance on the head of a pin.
    
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    August 24, 2020 5:38pm
- Tall Man
  
  Here ya go
  
  https://www.officemax.co.nz/Technology/Phones-Headsets-Accessories/Voice-Recording-Accessories/Loudhailer-Megaphone-3007WS-With-Microphone-and-Siren-2684926
  
  or the budget model
  
  https://www.surplustronics.co.nz/products/7810-megaphone-20watts-record-siren-meg020-
  
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  August 24, 2020 5:37pm
Diogenes

I’m wondering whether the the current round of political polls are being greatly affected by the woke/shaming cult that has exploded across the Western world since the last elections? It has become so dire that people are afraid to express their real opinions in any place where it may be picked up and used against them. I suggest that that could easily include answering questions of political pollers.
If that should be the case, the Left may unwittingly become the victims of their own success, and discover on election night that the goose wasn’t killed — it was just biding its time. Well, one can hope.
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August 24, 2020 9:01am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  While of course you are an arch cynic Diogenes, you are likely correct. The Hall Monitor-on-Steroids Syndrome that many have is an effective informal means of enforcing group-think and compliance.
  
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  August 24, 2020 3:18pm
Ruawai

Grant Robertson on RNZ this morning said the Government has ‘delivered’ on ring fencing the current cluster, but he forgot to mention we have the current cluster because of his governments lies and incompetence.
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August 24, 2020 9:03am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  hmmm yea the source has escaped the ring fence so until then nope they cant be sure.
  
  remember theyve gone back to “only get tested if you have symptoms” so asymptomatics could be running around and no one is the wiser.
  
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  August 24, 2020 6:32pm
Swifty

Can anyone explain to me the thinking behind requiring people to use the same pen when filling in hard-copy contact registers?

I came across this twice yesterday, and both times there was a staffer or security person there who could have filled it in on customer’s behalf – thereby eliminating a source of cross-contamination.

Seems designed to spread any infections in my view. I’ll carry my own pen from now on.
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August 24, 2020 9:17am
- cmm
  
  Theatre
  
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  August 24, 2020 10:06am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Wash your hands after using a communal pen or at least before touching your face / biting your nails etc. Same when using a supermarket trolley or a petrol pump at gas station or an EFTPOS machine where you have to punch in your PIN.
  
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  August 24, 2020 11:42am
- Tall Man
  
  Oh Swifty, get the bug now while you’re still healthy. The virus will be here long after you and I are gone and there is unlikely to be an acceptable vaccine as well.
  
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  August 24, 2020 5:31pm
rouppe

Three stories on Stuff about the Z energy CEO and climate change, and needing to get government (read you and me) to subsidise bio fuel to make it competitive with mineral oils.

Agenda much?
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August 24, 2020 9:21am
Maggie Pie

What about the group going to Court today – seeking to have the ‘Voting Gge’ lowered to 16? LOL!!
My partner’s nephew has just turned 16. He stayed with us the weekend before last while his mum went on a tinder date. After he went home we found a wet sock under his bed 🙁
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August 24, 2020 9:31am
I remember when

I see on TV that the gangs are trying to make Law and Order a part of the Election again.
Firstly, there was a story about a new police recruit living with a Mongrel Mob member.
Is that taking liaising a tad too far?
Then last night, news that Gang Membership was on the rise with over 7000 on police membership list.
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August 24, 2020 9:40am
Flossie

Children and their rights. Partner’s child aged 14 went to the doctor and a bill came to partner. He contacted doctor’s surgery and asked what?? when?? but was told he couldn’t be told as the child has the right to privacy. But he’d better pay that bill!
Child later reluctantly admitted the visit but was very very vague regarding symptoms, treatment etc. If something serious had resulted would my partner have been found accountable for not providing adequate medical care for his child?
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August 24, 2020 9:43am
- Phronesis
  
  A child’s right to medical privacy generally only applies to reproductive health issues…
  https://privacy.org.nz/blog/parents-right-to-know-childrens-right-to-privacy/
  
  Although GP’s can be very woke and may be extending it beyond what was originally envisaged.
  
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  August 24, 2020 11:03am
cmm

Here’s more lying by telling partial truths from the Herald

“Covid 19 coronavirus: Sweden records its highest death toll in 150 years ”

Last time it was this bad was in the huge famine in 1869.

Oes noes!

But the death toll for the first half of this year was only 15% up on the death toll for 2019 – up, but hardly Armageddon.

What rubbish. During the 1918/19 Spanish Flu, 34,500 people died in Sweden. That is way more than the 5800 that have died with (not from) CV19.

Further, this is complete crap because it does not take into consideration population growth.

In the 1918/19 Spanish Flu, Sweden lost 34,500 people but the population was only 5.8 million. Scale that to today’s population and that was like 60,000 deaths today.

So, in Sweden, the Spanish Flu killed 10x what CV19 has but that gust gets airbrushed out of history.

Journalists: proving yet again why they are one of the most distrusted professions.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12358495&ref=recommendedv1
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August 24, 2020 9:44am
- fernglas
  
  I find it interesting that people can take the same country with the the same medical and economic figures and arrive at diametrically opposed views on whether it has been a success or not. I presume it’s because the actual figures pose the question rather than answering it. The answer is therefore a moral rather than statistical response. Which means that people’s hearts will need to change, rather than their minds. Fortunately, emotion is much more changeable than logic and so we may hope that as quickly as we fell into this moral panic, we will fall out.
  
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  August 24, 2020 10:03am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Fair points, but I would certainly hope in 2020 we can do a good deal better than 1918.
  
  While a whole lot of Kiwiblog commenters seem to quite OK with NZ having a similar ratio of deaths to Sweden which would be 3,000, I am certain that has very little appeal to the vast majority of New Zealanders.
  
  As you can imagine I talk to quite a few current and former National MP’s. Not one wanted NZ to take the Swedish approach. In fact some wanted NZ to really cut down border flows, including to returning citizens and residents, except on compassionate grounds. As a group they all think an eradication strategy is best for NZ. And of course that is National’s policy.
  
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  August 24, 2020 10:07am
  - Sigmund Freud
    
    And this is why Wayne I’m voting ACT.
    
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    August 24, 2020 10:23am
  - cmm
    
    It is magic thinking to think you can “save” the predominantly frail and sick people that are dying of CV19. Almost all of those that are “saved” have other illnesses and will be dead within a year or so of other causes.
    
    Next time you talk to one of your National MP mates ask them this:
    
    Why did they turn down funding Keytruda? Yes, I know that’s a Pharmac decision, but they have huge influence and could have forced the decision.
    
    Keytruda costs approx $100k per person and typically extends life by about 6 months to a year (depending on numerous factors). The decision was, therefore, that $100k was not worth spending to extend a person’s life.
    
    The CV19 response is costing us $140bn and might “save” 3000 people for a similar period. That is is approx $47 million per person. ie. 470 times as much as Keytruda.
    
    Now I am not saying that we SHOULD have funded Keytruda, but if that was a bad deal then jumping into the Covid pit is a 470x worse deal.
    
    Please ask your National MP mates to square that circle.
    
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    August 24, 2020 10:43am
    - Sigmund Freud
      
      “Please ask your National MP mates to square that circle.”
      
      Too hard for Wayne.
      
      Just leave him to campaign for Jacinda.
      
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      August 24, 2020 11:25am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Why do people when they talk about Sweden fail to recognise that whilst Sweden made a mistake putting Covid victims in Rest Homes- which caused a lot of death, that excepting that, their strategy looked to work.
      I understand Florida took care to ensure their elderly were protected but otherwise followed Swedens strategy.
      And it’s worked fine.
      I find it a bit dishonest that commentators don’t make the distinction.
      
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      August 24, 2020 11:46am
      - cmm
        
        Perhaps if we zoom out a bit those Swedish rest homes are normally excellent and work well at extending life and give improved quality of life.
        
        Perhaps it is only a once in 20 years even that this bites them.
        
        NB: Perhaps. I don’t know either way.
        
        But it is a problem if we change all our strategies for constructing society just because of CV19. The overall negative consequences might be huge.
        
        People wearing face masks cuts down on the value gained from people seeing eachother’s faces. That might be a benefit for CV19, but it is detremental for other reasons.
        
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        August 24, 2020 12:34pm
      - kowtow
        
        Philosophically the Swedes put great effort into keeping their elderly “independent” and living in their own homes for as long as possible.
        
        Implied in that is if you have to go into residential care in Sweden you’re pretty much already on the way out.
        
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        August 24, 2020 3:56pm
      - cmm
        
        kowtow: I read somewhere that the average “stay” for a “guest” in an NZ rest home is 18 months.
        
        Since most check out via the back door, I think we can say that the average lifespan in a NZ rest home is 18 months.
        
        According the link below, Swedish people spend an average of 6 to 7 months in institutional care, so yes, they are in the last few months of their life.
        
        Since only relatively few of them died it would be fair to expect that those who died were, generally, at the tail end of those 6 months.
        
        https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1525861020300281
        
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        August 24, 2020 6:03pm
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        All-on Red
        Are you actually serious in saying that it has worked out fine in Florida?
        Their total covid death rate is almost as high as Sweden and is typically increasing by a few hundred each day.
        How many New Zealanders do you think you could convince that “it’s worked fine.”
        
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        August 24, 2020 6:16pm
MCos

“According to a new CBSNews/YouGovpoll, 57% of Republicans and 10% of Democrats found the number of US #coronavirus deaths “acceptable.” “

So much for prolife & all lives matter

https://twitter.com/saraecook/status/1297617017583865858?s=20
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August 24, 2020 9:46am
- cmm
  
  Compared to what?
  
  The real problem is magic thinking that you can make all deaths go away without other negative consequences.
  
  Hugz and unicorns might feel nice, but they achieve nothing.
  
  Society makes these deals all the time. We find 350 road deaths per year acceptable and anyone with half a brain understands that the feel-good “goals” of zero deaths achieves nothing.
  
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  August 24, 2020 10:13am
  - MCos
    
    I would say no death are “acceptable”.
    If someone asked you if 22 deaths were “acceptable“ and then said to go and pick out the 22 people, would you’ll willing to do that?
    Or maybe several thousand people plus however many couldn’t get hospital treatment for the next six months or longer for other illnesses because they were full of coronavirus victims?
    
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    August 24, 2020 10:35am
    - cmm
      
      Well that’s just magic thinking.
      
      I’ll bet you’ve travelled in a car in the last 5 years because the risk of death is worth the benefit of travel.
      
      I’ll bet you have walked down some stairs (even though falling down stairs kills more people than car crashes) because the small risk was worth going to the bottom floor.
      
      If you obsessed about life and longevity then you would never take those risks.
      
      Sell your house and had the money to people wanting to buy Keytruda if you think every minute of every life is sacred.
      
      The problem with magic thinking is that real life is messy. Almost all decisions have unintended consequences and there are few simple solutions.
      
      Shut down hospitals (like they did to “save lives”) and many cancer, diabetes and cardiac patients missed diagnosis until it was too late. All up, thousands of lives are going to end up shortened by a year or more – in many cases decades.
      
      Shut down dentists and many people didn’t get the dentistry they should have. A bad tooth can cause permanent heart damage that shortens life.
      
      You end up not saving lives, but trading one set of lives for another – and screwing up the economy in the process.
      
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      August 24, 2020 10:53am
      - Tall Man
        
        You can’t help stupid so don’t waste your time 😉
        
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        August 24, 2020 5:26pm
    - rockape
      
      So y6ou would ban all cars because of car related death?
      
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      August 24, 2020 10:55am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      All death is certain, however “acceptable” you may or may not think that is. “We’re all going to die” is not doom mongering, it is a simple statement of fact.
      
      The alternative to dying of covids is not not dying, it is dying of something else later – in this case, probably not much later.
      
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      August 24, 2020 11:01am
    - cmm
      
      “or longer for other illnesses because they were full of coronavirus victims?”
      
      Well we couldn’t get into hospitals because they were shut down for the wave of CV patients that never came.
      
      I had tests delayed for 4 months. In my case it didn’t change much, but for many people that was enough to cause them to die decades before they should have (eg. delays in aggressive cancer diagnosis until it was too late for treatment).
      
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      August 24, 2020 11:11am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      Mcos your comment “Or maybe several thousand people plus however many couldn’t get hospital treatment for the next six months or longer for other illnesses because they were full of coronavirus victims?”
      
      um well thats already happened and weve had very few hospitalisations from covid.
      even now in south island with zero cases all non urgent surgeries etc are cancelled untill lvl 1 .
      make sense of that?
      
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      August 24, 2020 6:51pm
- Tall Man
  
  Under joe biden Americans will live forever will they?
  
  No, but they may feel like they are …… Groundhog Day.
  
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  August 24, 2020 5:25pm
Fletch

And they really want to make this man president?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGJGI1d96Ns
14 2
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August 24, 2020 9:51am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Democrat officials are guilty of “elder abuse” by making Joe their candidate.
  
  8 2
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  August 24, 2020 12:50pm
Maggie Pie

This picture was painted by Walter Molino in 1962 and is titled …. ‘LIFE 2022’

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgHq9jBXkAECY0B?format=jpg&name=small

Surreal, eh?
21 2
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August 24, 2020 10:00am
- fernglas
  
  Sure is. Who would have thought men would be wearing hats in two years time?
  
  23 0
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  August 24, 2020 10:05am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Or the Labor Billboard displayed on the left 🙁
    
    18 1
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    August 24, 2020 10:23am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Brilliant
      
      9 1
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      August 24, 2020 2:41pm
      - sooty
        
        I you want to beat the Jacinda virus thats what you should be all wearing! A big goldfish bowl!
        
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        August 24, 2020 8:01pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Who would have ever thought that in 2020 couples no longer existed, or a man and his wife would no longer share the same car?
    
    And who would have thought that the movie “With You Forever” would run for over 3200 weeks? Makes the Sound of Music look like a one minute wonder!
    
    14 2
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    August 24, 2020 10:35am
- cmm
  
  A few months back I saw one of those 1930s futuristic visions like this, but of a flying car.
  
  It had wings and a crank handle in the front.
  
  Yup, in the 1930s they thought that by the 1990s we’d have flying cars.
  
  But reliable electric starter motors? That’s just crazy talk!
  
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  August 24, 2020 10:57am
Nostradamus

Future of flying in coronavirus Australia is all domestic, as Qantas, Virgin and Rex look local

This is how bad it has become. Just days before announcing a $2 billion loss last week, Qantas announced it was selling off one of its most prized assets. It wasn’t one of its planes or its frequent flyer program. Sets of the famous Qantas business-class pyjamas — the stars of many Instagram posts — were being sold off for $25 a pop.

To put this in perspective, the Qantas share price closed at $3.90 on Friday, so you could buy 6 Qautas shares or a set of pyjamas. That’s a tough decision!
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August 24, 2020 10:05am
Critical Thinker

Trump Announces Emergency Authorization of ‘Breakthrough’ Convalescent Plasma Coronavirus Treatment

“This is a powerful therapy that transfuses very very strong antibodies from the blood of recovered patients to help treat patients battling a current infection,” Trump said.

This Convalescent Plasma treatment has been shown to decrease the mortality rate of COVID-19 by 35%.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-announces-emergency-authorization-of-breakthrough-coronavirus-treatment

It looks like it’s going to be tricky for NZ to source this Convalescent Plasma, due to the fact that our inept government has been going out of its way to do absolutely stuff all COVID-19 tests 🙄

And we also know that HCQ+ also decreases the mortality rate of COVID-19 by a huge amount as well. Showing what a downright evil farce these lockdown measures have been 😑
https://c19study.com/#early
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August 24, 2020 10:08am
- fernglas
  
  The logic here by the MoH is that is not yet proven that the presence of antibodies provides immunity to further infection. There has been no follow up on those who have recovered from the virus nor any recognition that having done so may confer a different medical status. With that mindset, it is hard to see that any such treatment would be permitted here.
  
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  August 24, 2020 10:35am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Finding antibodies in plasma is the norm and the use of plasma from known victims has been a standard treatment.
    Now it’s all a game to monetise the virus.
    
    10 2
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    August 24, 2020 12:32pm
- SB2
  
  Plasma is already a means by which patents who have covid are treated.
  
  The so called ” breakthrough treatment” will have to undergo formal and extensive clinical trials and testing ( much like the Oxford vaccine).
  
  It’s not” deep state ” nonsense
  
  There is no way Trump can escape this if he wants to maintain his already battered credibility and reputation in dealing with Covid 19,
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/23/coronavirus-donald-trump-plasma-treatment-fda-deep-state-navarro
  
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  August 24, 2020 12:10pm
Wired-one

Why do we need another Labour party political broadcast at 3pm when Ardern and co could make the announcement at their usual 1pm update?
32 1
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August 24, 2020 10:16am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Theatre
  
  13 2
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  August 24, 2020 11:11am
The Boss

Is Kim Yong Un in a coma or is this just a repeat of the previous hoax?
13 1
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August 24, 2020 10:21am
- rangitoto
  
  How do you know it was a hoax.
  
  10 2
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  August 24, 2020 10:37am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  He’s been dead since May at least. The body double they paraded then at a PR event was clearly not Kim Jong Un. Who is the real power there now? The sister – or is she just a puppet?
  
  5 2
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  August 24, 2020 12:48pm
Durden

Be Nice — they said. So here you go.

https://www.facebook.com/susannah.m.nix/videos/10160264919039498/
3 3
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August 24, 2020 10:24am
- mandk
  
  It reminds me of a sermon by Joel Osteen.
  
  4 2
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  August 24, 2020 11:09am
JibberJabber

In the 70s we had Iggys, Lust for Life.
The the 20s we get Jacindas, Lust for Lockdown,
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/22/new-zealands-lust-lockdown-latest-example-vapid-political-virtue/amp/
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August 24, 2020 10:31am
- SB2
  
  As the UK itself heads for its second lockdown ,
  
  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/08/23/uk-lockdown-rules-second-latest/
  
  3 14
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  August 24, 2020 12:13pm
Ruahine

Labour which is basically a gang showing their sympathies. For Labour, laws are there to be used against people that they can bully and who they do not like.
19 3
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August 24, 2020 10:59am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Tyranny
  
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  August 24, 2020 11:40am
Bobba Fret

Watched an interview between John Campbell and Shaun Hendy. Campbell said to him you have been bang on so far! Didn’t he predict 80,000 deaths if covid got in to the community? I wouldn’t call that modelling bang on!
32 2
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August 24, 2020 11:14am
- Flossie
  
  Campbell? Pfft. Say no more.
  
  26 2
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  August 24, 2020 1:07pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Campbell is a mouth with a cause – his own gratification.
    
    21 2
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    August 24, 2020 1:39pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Campbell, biggest cock in NZ
  
  12 1
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  August 24, 2020 4:23pm
Jack5

Otago University’s preferential entry for Maori and ethnic Pacific Islanders to enter Medical School with lower marks is in trouble.

Numbers have blown out, and these students are fighting university plans to cap special entry numbers.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/424278/otago-university-medical-students-fight-proposal-to-limit-maori-entry-pathway
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August 24, 2020 11:24am
cmm

They can’t be trusted to choose properly when buying booze.
They can’t be trusted to choose properly when buying smokes.
They won’t be allowed to choose to buy weed.
They can’t be trusted to choose properly whether they want to be prostitutes or act in a porn movie.
They can’t be trusted to operate an air rifle.

All these things are denied them because they make crap choices.

But, hey, give 16 year olds the vote so they can make shitty choices for all of us!
44 2
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August 24, 2020 11:32am
- Sigmund Freud
  
  16 year olds won’t make shitty voting decisions all by themselves. They will be MANIPULATED by evil adults to make shitty decisions.
  
  14 3
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  August 24, 2020 12:05pm
- Flossie
  
  Can’t be tried in an adult court.
  
  9 3
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  August 24, 2020 12:18pm
RJ

Hmmm, on the radio news at 11pm was news that one of the people who have quit the Canterbury DHB has said they are all quitting because of the way They are being treated by the ministry of health, seems the news websites are not running this. Just that Cindy promises to fix the problems there
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August 24, 2020 11:57am
- cmm
  
  I was talking to a pretty senior medical person (ie. not an administrator) at Chch hospital a few weeks ago.
  
  He was hugely pissed off. The CV19 shutdowns came just after his group had sorted out all their backlogs that, he said, were caused by government/MoH interference.
  
  He said that the whole department (including administration, nursing staff, technicians and doctors) had had to work bloody hard to pull together and it had taken over a year to get things right again.
  
  Then CV19 came and they were forced to shut down their services (though they didn’t have a single CV19 case in the building the whole time) which put them 4 months behind again. He was supremely pissed off that all those people had put in that work, overcome the government-caused shambles and now had to start from the bottom again.
  
  I have not audited his claims in any way, but I have no reason to doubt him.
  
  What we really do not need is pissing off people like this to the extent that they take their skills overseas.
  
  13 1
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  August 24, 2020 2:50pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That is the Govt’s job. Slow things down, employ more to help the backlog, slow things down, employ more.
    Rinse and repeat – and LOW unemployment!
    
    4 1
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    August 24, 2020 4:36pm
RJ

They guy stuffed up, he apologised, admitted what he did, but to write a big long article about white privilege is just as bad as what he did. And to then claim you have never seen Maori or Pacific Islanders protected by the media and not named and shamed, shit lady what planet do you live on. This country has a good track record of protecting Maori and pacific island sports people who screw up and not naming and shaming them.

Emmaline Pickering-Martin: Racism, privilege and Covid-19 rumours
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August 24, 2020 12:18pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The chap hasn’t been named & shamed because he’s connected to causes (International Aid) close to the Left.
  
  11 1
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  August 24, 2020 2:46pm
- graham
  
  The author, Emmaline Pickering-Martin, talks several times about how uncomfortable she is with the “humanisation” of this man, and contrasts it to the “dehumanisation” of Pacific Island people.
  
  I think I get what she’s talking about – that by casually talking about “those bloody PI’s” over a coffee with mates the guy was somehow reducing the woman in question to a mere talking point, but really? “Humanisation”? Where does this concept of “humanisation” and “dehumanisation” even come from? Where does she get that from? And honestly, how is that different to when mates discuss the All Blacks or the Warriors and concentrate purely on their skills on the field? Don’t we do the same then, and reduce a team of individual human beings to mere talking points? Funny, I’ve never heard anybody complain about how “dehumanising” that is …
  
  And of course the good old standby of “privilege”. Ms Pickering-Martin writes how lucky this guy is that he’s well-resourced, that he has back-up options that don’t include a visit to Work and Income while I apply for jobs and wait to hear back, how we as a society value people in well-paying positions who do “professional” work, and how nice it must be have gone to university and have a great paying job in international aid.
  
  The irony that Emmaline Pickering-Martin, according to the potted biography at the bottom of the page, is herself a teacher who is currently finishing her master’s degree while tutoring and guest lecturing in Pacific Studies at the University of Auckland, doesn’t seem to strike her.
  
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  August 24, 2020 3:29pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    She assumes he hasn’t been outed because he is white…
    I put forward a different hypothesis.
    
    I reckon if the chap had been a card-carrying member of the Nats / Act or similar, we’d all know his name by now.
    
    5 1
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    August 24, 2020 7:24pm
Prince

The Government is up to its usual tricky tricks, but increasingly their efforts to run with the hare and hunt with the hounds is being questioned.
Their much-publicised halt to oil and gas exploration permits (costing the country $8B according to MBIE and leaving us reliant on imports) is being challenged in court today.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/mark-dunphy-greymouth-gas-takes-government-to-court-over-oil-and-gas-ban/
The Govt defence is likely to be that they didn’t really cancel exploration – it’s just that they changed the published criteria to issue permits without changing the law.
Tangled webs, more deceit.
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August 24, 2020 12:26pm
- artemisia
  
  There will be wider interest than usual coming so soon after the Borrowdale case. The Borrowdale case will certainly make it into the curriculum, probably Greymouth Petroleum as well.
  
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  August 24, 2020 5:14pm
Gravelroad

One of the inmates in our household here belongs to a world-wide Facebook group (that you have to apply to join) called Romantic Houses and Gardens.
It’s all landscapes, houses by the sea, flowers and furnishing ideas.
Recently, one of the group ladies put up a post about how a garden at the White House had been refurbished and the President’s Mrs was going to give a speech there. It was all about the garden and what new plants there were and so on.
All hell broke loose.
Today, the mods of this group issued a statement outlining the thousands of hate mail and vile abuse messages they had received – they sounded very rattled and upset.
On Twitter, NBC news analyst, Howard Fineman, said: “The Trump Family did its best to turn the lovely Rose Garden into a neo-fascist parade ground.”
I gather that some roses where taken out and replaced with flowering cherry trees.
I guess if Mrs Obama had done it, there would be no problem? Although it may have been just a staff decision anyway.
Thankful I don’t live in America where even gardens are not safe from TDS.
24 2
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August 24, 2020 12:38pm
- Nickc2
  
  Agree Gravelroad, a classic case of lunatics in charge of the asylum. It must be the toughest job interview ever to get a job as a News Anchor in the US. One wouldn’t think there were enough nutters in the whole of the USA to staff CNN and CNBC. That’s not to mention write their News Papers. The Democrats really go out of their way to do hate.
  
  12 3
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  August 24, 2020 1:35pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh crikey…
  
  should I confess to digging out 5 shrub roses last month…. and I’m eyeing up another 4 to remove next winter?
  
  Who the hell wants to prune 50 bloody rose bushes each winter?
  
  13 1
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  August 24, 2020 2:54pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Are they Black roses, or white roses? or those cute multi coloured roses?
    Asking for a friend, and the Govt
    
    6 1
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    August 24, 2020 4:41pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Mother Nature decided that Black roses were a no-no…… How unfair is that?
      
      I got rid of a washed-out pink; 3 vicious crimsons; and an anaemic white.
      
      3 0
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      August 24, 2020 7:27pm
dcrane

RNZ just finished with not quite back-to-back stories on 1) a movement to lower the voting age to 16 and 2) a movement to raise the minimum age of criminal responsibility from 10 to 14. No attempt was made to reconcile these ideas.
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August 24, 2020 12:44pm
I remember when

Children’s Commissioner wants age of ‘criminal responsibility’ raised to 14.
That will allow a couple of years to become ‘responsible’ if the voting age gets lowered to 16.
12 2
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August 24, 2020 12:51pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Voting at High School. Fuck me, there will be a shitload of Teachers who knw EVERYTHING
  
  5 2
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  August 24, 2020 4:44pm
Don Beckett

Interesting video on how Covid has cured the ‘flu in the USA. CDC Govt. figures used.
https://realclimatescience.com/2020/08/new-video-cdc-covid-19-cures-the-flu/
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August 24, 2020 1:00pm
- Doc Holliday
  
  The people dying are all actors.
  
  It’s a neat trick because you don’t have to pay them because they really do die.
  
  I suggest (1) you avoid crank sites, (2) you wait until we see the number of excess deaths over 12 months or so.
  
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  August 24, 2020 1:19pm
I remember when

Should the Director-General of Health and Chief Executive be the person answering question on covid-19?
Does this place him in a position that is not part of his job description?
His position means he is responsible to the Minister of Health, not the general public or media!
The Minister is responsible for directing him and holding him accountable for the actions of his department.
He reports to the Minister, who decides what the Government should release to the public/media.
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August 24, 2020 1:30pm
I remember when

Again, on the subject of the Victim Impact Report presentations.
The question is not whether the victims should be able to confront the guilty party, it is whether an open court is the appropriate place?
Should it fit into more of a “Reconciliation” style setting?
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August 24, 2020 1:42pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The legislation allows for a victim to request a restorative justice meeting with the offender….
  
  But not every victim wants to reconcile with their offender (NOR should they be pressured to engage in such meetings).
  
  http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2002/0039/latest/DLM157813.html
  
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  August 24, 2020 3:08pm
Isobar

“National leader Judith Collins is promising to immediately convene a Public Health Summit to review lockdown levels if she becomes Prime Minister.

The summit would also look at other public health measures to avoid future lockdowns.

Collins says she wants input from all aspects of the community, from public health specialists, primary care teams, iwi leadership, Business New Zealand, manufacturing and the unions, so they can all agree on best practice for the country.”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424262/live-covid-19-updates-from-new-zealand-and-the-world-on-24-august

Welcome to the age of politicians – who only know how to govern by working group.

What happened to having authority, conviction, sounding out the electorate and just spelling out what you’d do before an election?

Such is the times we live in.
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August 24, 2020 1:50pm
- cmm
  
  Going well until she thought she should talk to the taniwha.
  
  Here’s the thing: nobody in their right mind thinks it was a good idea to shut down health services.
  
  People who should have had tests etc have died or are now on a terminal path due to shutting down these services.
  
  Many people will have their lifespan shortened due to this.
  
  Testing etc has been reduced and triaged. Some lower priority testing has been cut to help them catch up. Most of the time they will make the right call, but sometimes they won’t.
  
  There was absolutely no reason to shut down hospitals. The L4 criteria were never met.
  
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  August 24, 2020 2:59pm
  - SB2
    
    I suggest you hear this in depth analysis regarding the Canterbury health board finacial crise than off the cuff aencdotal accounts ,
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018760824/disarray-at-the-canterbury-dhb-the-crown-monitor-responds
    
    1 13
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    August 24, 2020 3:05pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Isobar: Politicians need to hear and balance various areas of expertise before making decisions. Nothing wrong with that.
  
  2 0
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  August 24, 2020 5:17pm
  - Isobar
    
    Fair enough, but by that definition Labour’s working groups should be welcomed.
    
    Also why not do it – before the election, so the public know what decisions you will make after the election.
    
    Kicking the can down the road is no way to govern. We’ve had enough of that already.
    
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    August 25, 2020 8:43am
JibberJabber

Troll level, Jedi master 🤣

https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1297675040889085958
10 1
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August 24, 2020 1:57pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That is brilliant
  
  3 2
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  August 24, 2020 3:05pm
Maggie Pie

As much as i can’t stand that Labor stooge Andrew Dickens, he’s eminently more listenable than those other two ‘wet rags’ that replaced him Tuesday to Friday.
Don’t ya hate it when Shaun Plunket’s away 🙁
10 1
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August 24, 2020 2:00pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Sean Plunket’s not away; I’m listening to him on Magic Talk at the moment.
  
  6 1
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  August 24, 2020 2:07pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I didn’t say he was, silly!
    I said when he IS.
    
    6 6
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    August 24, 2020 2:21pm
  - SB2
    
    Would he be a Swedish Herd immunity fan by chance,?
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/audio/2018760824/disarray-at-the-canterbury-dhb-the-crown-monitor-responds
    
    2 16
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    August 24, 2020 3:06pm
Flossie

What’s the chances of just getting advised of the lockdown decision without a 10 minute preamble (on how well we’ve done and how it’s essential to continue blah blah blah)
10 1
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August 24, 2020 2:50pm
Bobba Fret

So how long will Jacinda talk for today, until she announces what level Auckland and the rest of NZ will be at after Wednesday?
My prediction 4 minutes 20 seconds until we hear what we are waiting to hear.
10 1
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August 24, 2020 2:56pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  She has 1 hour, so it will be 54 minutes of electioneering first
  
  10 3
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  August 24, 2020 3:08pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Wrong. Auckland at level 3 until midnight sunday, then reviewed??
    
    7 3
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    August 24, 2020 3:10pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Hoho!
      
      Only two extra days In level 3 house arrest!
      
      Two working days that is or don’t we count like that anymore?
      
      9 1
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      August 24, 2020 3:13pm
      - Bobba Fret
        
        Not if you are a shop, bar, restaurant, cafe etc. Its another 4 days and possibly another weekend of your two best trading days lost.
        
        6 1
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        August 24, 2020 3:52pm
      - Flossie
        
        No we don’t count like that if we were hoping a function we were to attend could go ahead Saturday night
        
        5 1
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        August 24, 2020 3:55pm
      - rockape
        
        Not two working days if your a nurse or doctor roster-ed over that time nor if you are working in retail or hospitality or driving public transport. Doesn’t leave much left does it.
        
        6 1
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        August 24, 2020 4:18pm
    - JerJer
      
      Yeah, yah yah yah, contract tracing, gold standard, we did it, again. Level 3 until Sunday, whoops failed again.
      
      Next question, after screwing this up twice, will she do a little dance next time she saves us ?
      
      12 1
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      August 24, 2020 3:16pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Saving 80000 deaths you know. This does not stop on Sunday. It stops on Oct 18th
        
        14 2
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        August 24, 2020 3:37pm
    - RJ
      
      I’m interested in the prime minister telling people that you can make a mask at home that will provide you with protection, bullshit.
      
      14 1
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      August 24, 2020 3:20pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Why would you be interested in ANOTHER lie?
        
        8 2
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        August 24, 2020 3:39pm
      - RJ
        
        Because to have a prime minister stand up and lie to people to make masks and they will have protection is a very dangerous lie for her to tell. She believes we need to wear masks to limit risk, she has in her own terms put people at risk
        
        11 2
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        August 24, 2020 3:41pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Agree Steve, people are interpreting Sunday as a day of freedom, its not! It’s another day of imprisonment until 11:59 PM (2359 to be precise) or both Mickey’s hands are on 12 and it’s really dark.
      
      8 3
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      August 24, 2020 3:39pm
I remember when

Okay you lot, you didn’t pray hard enough yesterday, so I’m going to give you another chance next Sunday!
15 2
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August 24, 2020 3:13pm
Nickc2

At the end of our Kindy Kids lesson today at 3:PM, Cindy stated “I am now taking questions Jessica Tova” all in the same sentence. Tell me again questions are not pre-planned and distributed to friendly (paid for) so called Journalists. Lying bastards!
31 4
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August 24, 2020 3:21pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  At 1 pm there were a lot of usual reporters not there. I guess they were in programming school at the bee’s nest
  
  13 3
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  August 24, 2020 3:31pm
Dave Mann

Fucking BITCH!

She has extended the house arrest in Auckland until SUNDAY and imposed mask wearing on public transport and told us that she intends to continue pushing us around indefinitely into the future!

This fucking woman and her Marxist cabal has to be STOPPED before she fucks our country and our future!
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August 24, 2020 3:22pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Country is already fucked – it was 24 months ago. We just need this thieving, lying lot of bastards out so we can recover
  
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  August 24, 2020 3:33pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Don’t always agree with your comments Dave, but this time you hit the nail on the head
  
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  August 24, 2020 3:34pm
  - alex Masterley
    
    She made it sound like we should be grateful that the level may drop next week.
    I know alot of work places and schools have been trying to plan for a reduction thursday morning.
    I just hope for those peoples sake and those who will loose another 4 days trading that they can survive.
    
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    August 24, 2020 3:50pm
    - Swifty
      
      Anecdotally, many of my local suppliers/shops are really hurting – talking with a number of operators/owners over the last week or two they share a common story; massive pain during the initial lockdown (closures), an only partial recovery in the intervening period (none back to normal trading levels; 50-60% being the most quoted figure) and then back to massive pain again since the latest lockdown.
      
      I greatly fear for their futures (butcher, bakers, coffee shop, dairies – even the local West Liqour say they’re down by a third recently).
      
      She’s carnage out there.
      
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      August 24, 2020 4:20pm
- Alex13
  
  Yeah, and I am sure that you are also convinced that your election vote should have ten times the weight of the vote of any other person…
  Calm down. What you hold is an opinion – your opinion – which may or may not coincide with that of other people. Shouting about it, with expletives, does not make it any more persuasive.
  
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  August 24, 2020 3:45pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If he wants to SHOUT, he can. All of the PROTESTERS shout right in your face, because the snowflakes know you can’t touch them. Different when the left do it Alex13, so don’t be one of those double standard people
    
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    August 24, 2020 4:20pm
    - Alex13
      
      No, not different. I dislike it when civility is lost and vulgarity is used as a substitute for reasonable arguments, by those on the left or by those on the right regardless.
      
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      August 24, 2020 4:42pm
      - Tall Man
        
        So those of us in the middle are ok then?
        
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        August 24, 2020 6:36pm
  - Nickc2
    
    If you don’t stand for something, you stand for nothing. Stand out from the mob of sheep, have an opinion.
    
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    August 24, 2020 4:24pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Deadline 17 October.
  
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  August 24, 2020 4:18pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Party 18th
    
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    August 24, 2020 4:21pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The downticker is not invited. Huge American Stainless BBQ, Spa pool, 12 seat outdoor patio table with 12 ft umbrella. Deck chairs all over the place, outdoor SS fridge.
      Escort/carry down the drive when your taxi comes to pick you up.
      Then we watch videos about the next election one month later.
      
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      August 24, 2020 4:50pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The Trump Stamp.
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fbabylonbee.com%2Fnews%2Fbrilliant-trump-puts-himself-on-all-postage-stamps-forcing-democrats-to-abolish-the-usps%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR3yWaHkA5rloPANRw5ld5LxSyEdCpVVH0GEQR9REhov7h-AfnoMLElfkHE&h=AT14aF5P7gc4YHaYIAiG9kdd1rdqzMnI1gQz0jM_jmjLOkAuTugiif0dpL1ccJChg7ZaCseFyGH0lNBjvLm0tB5bnvBiMsJPtRFLtOrOnq3F8w2ulyfWxivkA_NEW56M8A
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August 24, 2020 3:40pm
Allan

Anger would be a minor description right now as to my feelings towards our dear leader and her Marxist/Communist cabal. They have no skin in the game their wages are still going to be paid and they are not going to suffer because of their bad decisions. As you say they have to be booted out before they destroy our country. The silly cow refuses to admit that elimination is the wrong strategy, who the hell does she think she bloody is God. Talk about the operation was a success but the patient still died, this is exactly what these idiots are doing to the economy of the country wih the course that they are taking us. It is all downhill and will be to no avail as the virus is here and will remain here with pockets of infection erupting from time to time, we just have to learn to live with it. End of story.
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August 24, 2020 3:44pm
- greybeard
  
  So true.
  This has long ceased to be a health matter, it is now unashamedly a matter of political control.
  A display of power, by someone who up until now has never had any power or any control.
  The more people who become dependent on the state the better she likes it.
  
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  August 24, 2020 4:17pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Jaspinda knows all very well that she will not ‘eliminade’ the virus. But if she tells the sheeple they will vote for her. She is not ‘God’ but her brainwashed voters think she is. Your first 3 sentences are correct.
  This is political Allan, and World wide political
  
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  August 24, 2020 4:59pm
  - RJ
    
    Are you sure? Every time she is on I hear people saying, “dear god not again”.
    
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    August 24, 2020 5:14pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Btw, don’t get angry – get even then plus
  
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  August 24, 2020 5:01pm
- Chris Scott
  
  The silly cow refuses to admit that elimination is the wrong strategy, who the hell does she think she bloody is
  
  Who’s got the right strategy in your opinion?
  
  6 5
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  August 24, 2020 5:19pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Sweden, Taiwan.
    
    Protect the vulnerable and those that wish to be protected with comorbidities.
    
    Let the rest of us loose FFS.
    
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    August 24, 2020 6:35pm
  - Dave Mann
    
    David Seymour, Rodney Hide and Dr Simon Thornley and all the Covid Plan B team…. to name just a few.
    
    Learn to live with it, take special care of the elderly, the fat and the sick and stop locking down the country over something that is only on a par with (or even less than – depending on which stats you use) the common ‘flu.
    
    Basically this is what all these people are saying.
    
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    August 24, 2020 7:01pm
Nickc2

Come on Winston, put your F’n head above the parapet now. You put this bovine in place. If you had any honour, you would come out and denounce what she’s said. You won’t though, you’re still hoping she’ll grant you a free seat in Northland aren’t you?
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August 24, 2020 3:59pm
- Tall Man
  
  The deal may be done.
  
  Perhaps one of the locals can advise on the level of campaining by the labour candidate.
  
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  August 24, 2020 6:34pm
greenfinger

After all the jibber jabber, the rest of the country is forced to stay on level 2?? Too gutless, Princess, because you are scared of pissin’ Aucklanders off by keeping them on level 3 while the rest of the country should justifiably go back to level 1. The other 3.5mn part of the team should be totally pissed with her, but I suspect half of them are just sheep that do as they are told because they love her so much.
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August 24, 2020 4:04pm
The Boss

Cindy and Ash still don’t know the source of the biggest ever cluster. Winston knows, but he wont tell anybody.
11 1
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August 24, 2020 4:06pm
- Tall Man
  
  Waiting for the right price maybe 😉
  
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  August 24, 2020 6:32pm
lifesgood

As a matter of interest, all the previous viruses, like Spanish Flu (a far greater killer than Covid will ever be) swine flu, SARS, MERS etc just suddenly up and disappeared. In none of these cases was there a vaccine available and in none of these cases were countries F***ed over the way many countries in the world are being now. Why is this, do you think?
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August 24, 2020 5:01pm
- Tall Man
  
  Gone or herd immunity to some level?
  
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  August 24, 2020 6:31pm
- Alex13
  
  From Wikipedia on the Spanish Flu pandemic:
  “…actions were taken. Maritime quarantines were declared on islands such as Iceland, Australia, and American Samoa, saving many lives. Social distancing measures were introduced, for example closing schools, theatres, and places of worship, limiting public transportation, and banning mass gatherings. Wearing face masks became common in some places, such as Japan, though there were debates over their efficacy. … A later study found that measures such as banning mass gatherings and requiring the wearing of face masks could cut the death rate up to 50 percent, but this was dependent on them being imposed early in the outbreak and not being lifted prematurely”.
  
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  August 24, 2020 8:54pm
Prince

Ardern said she visited a Covid tracing centre and was so impressed with what was happening. People were ringing people, checking CTV footage etc etc.
What exactly did she expect to find ?
Then I realised, when you look at her Cabinet I can see why she was so impressed that actual work appeared to be done.
16 1
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August 24, 2020 5:02pm
- RJ
  
  It takes a lot of hard work to be that incompetent
  
  0 0
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  August 24, 2020 6:52pm
Maggie Pie

Just popped back into the kitchen to stir the gravy.
Did anyone else notice what a short-arse that aussie Tarrant is?

JUST SAYING.
7 5
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August 24, 2020 6:11pm
- RJ
  
  I knew there was a reason I decided to watch the block instead of the news, that and the Jacindy person
  
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  August 24, 2020 6:24pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Even my partner reckons he’s got a ‘bad head’.
  
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  August 24, 2020 6:51pm
kwkiwigirl

What’s the rationale for keeping Wellington locked down? We haven’t had any cases. It’s not like Level 2 isn’t affecting businesses down here.

My heart really goes out to the business people of Auckland. Ardern and co have absolutely no idea about running a business and she has no plans to open up the country even with covid being present.

If she wants to do something productive then deal to the problem of spread in churches. Doesn’t seem to be any extra efforts being made there. Too scared to upset her voters but not too scared to send many NZ businesses bust.

The only good thing that may come out of this is that she may have reached tipping point as far as the patience of even her own voters and we will see the back of her at the upcoming election.
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August 24, 2020 6:33pm
Flossie

If wearing masks on busses is so necessary why doesn’t it have to start tonight? Why wait a week?
1 0
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August 24, 2020 7:04pm
tranquil

**Great** video here comparing and contrasting the economic clusterf**k of California with the rocketship of Texas –
https://www.prageru.com/video/fleeing-california/
0 0
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August 24, 2020 7:08pm
Surely Knott

Germany are doing experiments to see how the coronavirus spreads. By holding three large concerts with 1500 volunteers of 18-50 yr olds. The 1st their will be no safety measures. The 2nd their will be safety measures like masks and social distancing. 3rd – half the number of people, masks and more social distancing.

So Are the Germans (a) running unethical live experiments exposing people en masse to an extremely deadly life threatening virus. How many do they expect to die. or (2) The study is ethical. Their is next to no risk for the attendees. They are 50 and under and the chances of them dying is next to nil.

And if the answer is 2. Then what is the ethics of locking that group up and removing them of their civil liberties.
0 0
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August 24, 2020 8:33pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDgwCLnjDZc
Rocket Man Dead Again.

The South Korean intelligence agency thinks KJU is
In a coma again. His sister is poised to take over. Or not.
Limited public appearances are fuelling rumours. There
is not a complete succession plan. The coma could
have been caused from botched heart surgery.
He may just be lying low again to dodge the CCP
virus. Time will tell.
0 0
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August 25, 2020 12:11pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOJ3kal7U_U
Russia Behind Mali Coup?

The recent coup in Mali is bad news for the
presitators Belt and road plan. Russia is likely
behind it, nut the USA. The president has resigned.
There is also an Islamist insurgency. The coup
leaders were trained in Russia. They returned a
week before the coup. There had also been
protests over parliamentary elections. China
condemmed the coup. The new junta could
be pro-Russian. Expediency trumps friendship.
Moscow has a new African strategy involving the Central African Republic,
Egypt, Eritrea, Madagascar, Mozambique, and Sudan. Putin
has made Africa a top priority. This has been happening since 2015.
Private armies, and unofficial groups are being used.
0 0
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August 25, 2020 12:12pm

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