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September 10, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 10 September 2020

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General Debate

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JibberJabber

Trigger Warning ?

“I’m not a big Trump supporter,” said the Norwegian parliamentarian who nominated Trump for the Nobel Prize. But facts are facts, he says. “The people who have received the Peace Prize in recent years have done much less than Donald Trump. For example, Barack Obama did nothing.”

https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1303755364714852354
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September 10, 2020 8:01am
- krazykiwi
  
  The Nobel committee met and agreed to award Obama just 9 days after his inauguration. All he’d done at that point was play a couple of rounds of golf. Oh, and Obama used his Nobel acceptance speech as an opportunity to justify a increasing the US’s military presence in Afghanistan.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:14am
  - IC5000
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    > All he’d done at that point was play a couple of rounds of golf
    
    Exactly. Trump has had at least 178 golf outings so far as president so if anyone deserves the Nobel prize on this basis it should be him.
    
    https://trumpgolfcount.com/displayoutings
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:56am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      178 golf outings? Wow, that’s impressive. Trump can play some golf while still being a total Boss. Thanks for the link.
      
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      September 10, 2020 11:20am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        This was the man who criticised Obama for too much golf (when he wasn’t pushing the birther nonsense).
        
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        September 10, 2020 11:37am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        It wasn’t the golf, it was the playing golf instead of governing. Not the same thing.
        
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        September 10, 2020 1:20pm
      - IC5000
        
        Does being a total boss means presiding over a country wracked with race riots, arson and political extremists fighting in the streets while the body bags build up to 200k with an economy devastated and tens of millions unemployed.
        
        No wonder Trump plays a lot of golf. Who would want to confront that reality.
        
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        September 10, 2020 2:24pm
      - SGA
        
        It wasn’t the golf, it was the playing golf instead of governing. Not the same thing.
        
        Ok, that literally made me laugh out loud. Thanks.
        
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        September 10, 2020 7:51pm
    - gorse
      
      Correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand that Trump is the first President in 40 years who hasn’t started a war. That alone should get him the prize.
      
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      September 10, 2020 2:56pm
- mandk
  
  “Obama did nothing”
  
  True. They judged him by the colour of his skin, not the content of his character.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:17am
- Simon
  
  Trump the Peace President. War is over if you want it.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:20am
- Scott
  
  Jibber Jabber – thanks for bringing this to our attention. It’s interesting that Donald Trump is the first president for ages who hasn’t started any wars. He ran on a stop to the bipartisan consensus of the military industrial complex which needs endless wars in which Americans are fighting and weapons are being used up and new ones are developed.
  
  Since Trump came into office he put an end to Isis, the North Koreans are quiet, Iran is quiet and the rich NATO countries are starting to pay their fair share of NATO costs.
  
  The other thing about him is his counterintuitive diplomacy. He told Kim that “I have a red button and my red button is bigger than your red button and my red button actually works. And I will unleash fire and fury the likes of which the world has never seen!”
  Now Kim understood that language and backed down.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:40am
  - MCos
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Kim Jung Un backed down from what?
    Sabre rattling?
    As far as I’m aware they haven’t backed down at all.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:16am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      I believe you – the “as far as you’re aware” bit. Suggest reading a little, you never know what you might learn.
      
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      September 10, 2020 10:33am
      - SGA
        
        Here you go, MCos – some reading
        
        The following is the July 14, 2020 Congressional Research Service In Focus report, North Korea’s Nuclear Weapons and Missile Programs.
        
        North Korea continues to advance its nuclear weapons and missile programs despite high-level diplomatic efforts and UN Security Council sanctions. In April 2018, North Korean leader Kim Jong Un said that nuclear and long-range missile testing was no longer necessary because the country had achieved its objectives. However, in the past two years, North Korea has increased the testing pace for its ballistic missile and submarine-launched systems. In late December 2019, Kim announced that, due to the United States’ policies, “there is no ground” for North Korea to continue to maintain its testing moratoria.
        
        For the whole article –
        https://news.usni.org/2020/07/15/report-on-north-koreas-nuclear-weapons-missile-programs
        
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        September 10, 2020 3:28pm
    - softail 1450
      
      Mcos, oh no Mcos, Kims gonna launch an attack on the Gerald R ford carrier group with his 5 harvards and 12 mig 21’s none of which have flown for decades.
      Do you seriously think the Americans are shaking in their boots with fear from that fricking idiot?
      
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      September 10, 2020 2:59pm
      - SGA
        
        But the question is whether the situation now is really substantially different than has been in recent times. I can’t say that I see it.
        
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        September 10, 2020 3:59pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Mini AOC
  
  Barack Obama’s Nobel Peace Prize is as meaningless as Ilhan Omar’s marriage license.
  
  Nobel secretary regrets Obama peace prize
  https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-34277960?__twitter_impression=true
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:17am
- RW Capitalist
  
  The Dems and all lelfties….never trumpers etc
  Will be setting their hair on fire today.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:35am
- BeeJay
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Hitler was also nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1939 but his nomination was withdrawn. Stalin was nominated twice, in 1945 and 1948. Trump now nominated for a second time, and nominated by the same right wing Norwegian politician! When Trump loses in November and is arrested for the various crimes he is currently being investigated for, will the nomination be withdrawn or will Trump be the first person to take it to jail with him?
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:43am
  - alloytoo
    
    I think you just invoked Godwin’s law.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:57am
    - BeeJay
      
      Actually in Dec 2015, Godwin commented on the Nazi and fascist comparisons being made by several articles about Trump, saying “if you’re thoughtful about it and show some real awareness of history, go ahead and refer to Hitler when you talk about Trump, or any other politician”! After the Unite the Right Rally in Charlottesville, Virginia in 2017 Godwin made similar remarks on social networking to the Rally, endorsing and encouraging efforts to compare the Rally’s alt-right organisers to Nazis! So invoking Godwin’s Law in my post was appropriate and Godwin would agree!
      
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      September 10, 2020 12:00pm
  - alwyn
    
    “the first person to take it to jail with him”.
    Hardly. After all 3 of the winners were actually in custody when they were awarded the prize.
    They were Carl von Ossietzky (1935), Aung San Suu Kyi (1991) and Liu Xiaobo (2010).
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:23am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Bazinga! Alwyn you have once again inconveniently used facts to expose the lefty narrative for being as uninformed as it is predictable.
      
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      September 10, 2020 10:34am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Despite the Warning, ↑ Triggered↑ ?
    
    Stop smoking the CNN crack pipe BJ.
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:25am
  - herb1
    
    Oh dear Bee Jay , Trumps really got inside your head hasn’t he , and it appears he’s caused a lot of damage
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:26am
    - Blackbob
      
      could be renting space in there…
      
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      September 10, 2020 1:51pm
  - Billy Collins
    
    Hitler’s nomination was put forward as a joke.
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:44am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Whereas Trump’s nomination itself is a joke.
      
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      September 10, 2020 11:38am
      - JibberJabber
        
        This comment is a fascinating insight into the Lefts’ cognitive dissonance.
        Trump has achieved actual trade and peace agreements between longstanding enemies, Obama got awarded this “peace” prize for nothing other than the colour of his skin, then proceeded to bomb more civilians(of countries that the US was not at war with) than any other President before him and MM sez the
        
        nomination itself is a joke.
        
        If Trump walked across the Potomac, MM would say it was because he could’nt swim. ?
        Everything the bitter Left say can be safely ignored.
        
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        September 10, 2020 12:51pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I have always thought it was nonsense to award the Nobel prize to Obama.
        Trump has done nothing to justify any award.
        
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        September 10, 2020 3:28pm
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Interesting observation. Obama actually won the same prize that Hitler and Stalin were also only nominated for?
    
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    September 10, 2020 11:23am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    obama should be in jail with his aswell.
    
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    September 10, 2020 11:43am
  - softail 1450
    
    BeeJay, Obama would have been more qualified for a Nobel award for getting B/J’s and smoking crack in the back of a limousine with a male prostitute,look it up it’s well documented,happened when he was a Senator.
    
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    September 10, 2020 3:05pm
Happychappy

Jacinda Ardern shows her arrogance and how willing she is to blame others when problems of the Governments own makings go wrong. Jacinda Ardern says it is frustrating some Covid-19 sufferers aren’t disclosing close contacts they have come in contact with. Jacinda Ardern spoke yesterday after it was announced a student at St Dominic Catholic College tested positive for Covid-19. This morning Health Minister Chris Hipkins told radio NZ it appeared the student was a close contact of a sub cluster that had not previously been disclosed, the authority’s are now looking into whether it was done on purpose.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/ardern-says-its-frustrating-some-covid-19-sufferers-arent-fully-disclosing-close-contacts
The same old story from a Government that lies themselves over Covid -19 and is alway willing to blame others for their own incompetence.
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September 10, 2020 8:02am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Latest opinion poll from UMR – Labour 53%, National – 29%. I rest my case. Sheeple are voting Labour big time. More than majority are happy.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:12am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    id take a umr poll with a grain of salt.
    
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    September 10, 2020 8:23am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Just a grain? A whole bloody truckload, more likely!
      
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      September 10, 2020 8:55am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Lake Elesmere
        
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        September 10, 2020 10:27am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Time to take your head off the sand peeeeders. Wake up to reality. No way on earth National is crossing even 30% on election night.
      
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      September 10, 2020 9:40am
      - IC5000
        
        I’d put their result at between 30 and 40%.
        
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        September 10, 2020 11:39am
    - barnacle bill
      
      Like every other poll for the last 6 months ?
      
      Keep your head buried under a rock, wimpy.
      
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      September 10, 2020 9:48am
      - softail 1450
        
        barnacle bill , Is there any room under there with you already residing, I have no doubt you’d be a Biden voter given the chance despite the fact that he’s lost his mind, a blind leftie beneficiary .
        
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        September 10, 2020 3:12pm
  - bruceavon
    
    Where did you see that? That’s not good. I was hoping the breakout and lock down would bring National up, but I have to say out in the world peoples opinions don’t seem to have changed. UMR are the least reliable pollsters, but this is bad news if true. And the election campaigning is weird in lock down. It’s like it’s not happening which plays into the government.
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:21am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Love is irrational. People stay for years in a bad relationship.
      
      And the sheeple love Cindy.
      
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      September 10, 2020 11:54am
  - Sacha
    
    All Hail the Sheeple!
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:58am
- Paulus
  
  But she will still be Prime minister again in October by a large vote majority – possibly alone.
  Used to be called Hypocrisy but now only Labour.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:15am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    If National and Act do not have enough to form government, I am hoping there is a slight “silver lining” and both NZF and The Greens fall below the 5% threshold and are gone! That would enable me to have a small celebration at least.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:06am
    - mark15
      
      That would be a small victory indeed BF
      
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      September 10, 2020 9:22am
    - peterwn
      
      The alleged 53% is still in tricky territory for Labour especially as UMR polls seem to seem to be a bit optimistic from Labour’s point of view. If it slides to 49% and NZF and Greens are both below 5%, National would be able to govern assuming ACT’s support. Granted with this scenario there would be much wailing and gnashing of teeth from the Left.
      
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      September 10, 2020 9:50am
      - hullkiwi
        
        No different to 3 years ago, then. That is MMP for you!
        
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        September 10, 2020 10:49am
      - Enkidu
        
        When will people realize that MMP in New Zealand is a complete farce?
        
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        September 10, 2020 3:35pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Another one waking up to reality. Welcome to SCS club of reality.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:40am
    - softail 1450
      
      S CS,The SCS club of senility I’d guess, you and your marching mate barnacle bill.
      
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      September 10, 2020 3:16pm
  - rockape
    
    Elected in October and mental health breakdown by March.
    
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    September 10, 2020 12:24pm
- DeepBlue
  
  Ardern and Hipkins were wrong and should apologize. Bloomfield has since said the contact had been revealed but wasn’t close.
  
  The strategy of containment is leaky.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:29am
  - sooty
    
    Just like our border!
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:11am
  - Raphael
    
    but but but we were told to only believe what Our Glorious Leader and her Ministers say, so we can’t believe Bloomfield if he gives different information.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:30am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Podium of truth, Comrade!
      
      Team of 5 million, except for those Christian haters and wreckers! Set the dogs on them!
      
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      September 10, 2020 9:35am
- Albert_Ross
  
  This on a forum where we applauded people who refused to use the contact tracing app and suggested giving false names when signing into restaurants.
  
  We can’t encourage people not to cooperate – and then blame it on the Government when people don’t.
  
  We’re always banging on about personal responsibility and how Governments should provide information to enable people to make their own choices and trust them to do do so like competent adults.
  
  Well, the corollary of that is that some of those people will make bad choices – and that is on them.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:29am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I don’t use the COVID app because it is a piece of shit. The blue-tooth based COVID card could have been up and running by now. But as Sam Morgan pointed out, the MoH is too stupid to get it done.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:22am
    - alloytoo
      
      My wife insists on using the app, damn thing doesn’t work half the time.
      
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      September 10, 2020 10:01am
    - Flossie
      
      Do you really think those people with covid who are refusing to name contacts would bother to actually take a bluetooth card about with them?
      Easy…just ‘forget’ to carry it.
      
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      September 10, 2020 10:13am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Don’t believe everything a spurned vendor says. The reality was their proposal didn’t stack up on a number of grounds and was rejected, upon which Mr Morgan Jr threw his toys out of the cot and blamed everyone except the person he should’ve blamed.
      
      He’s becoming more like his father every day.
      
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      September 10, 2020 10:38am
  - Swifty
    
    Well said Albert.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:23am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I wish I could give you both an up- and down-tick, but I had to choose one and went up.
    
    My reasons for (initially) refusing to download the COVID contact tracing app was that barely a third of businesses/premises had a QR code, and I remain deeply distrustful of the government’s ability to securely manage my personal data.
    
    I’ve since downloaded it and use it whenever I go out, as I’ve verified that no data is shared unless I choose to share it, and it also auto-deletes after 30 days.
    
    The reason people don’t like giving their real name, address and contact information manually is pretty obvious. I would be handing over personal information including contact details in the absence of any Privacy Policy or reassurance it will a) be kept securely and destroyed after 30 days, and b) not used for any other purpose without my permission.
    
    I also don’t want to let any opportunistic burglars know where I live and that I’m out of the house.
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:43am
    - calendar girl
      
      ” ….. I’ve verified that no data is shared unless I choose to share it, and it also auto-deletes after 30 days.”
      
      Why then doesn’t the Government publish that information, openly? Many people are suspicious of the Government, any Government, retaining information about their detailed personal movements and whereabouts. And understandably so.
      
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      September 10, 2020 12:18pm
    - Albert_Ross
      
      I wish I could give you both an up- and down-tick
      
      That is quite possibly the most flattering thing that has ever been said to me in this forum. I think I need a little cry
      
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      September 10, 2020 3:36pm
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      data is shared. how else can they know x amount of scans that day… the paper barcode cant transmit.
      
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      September 10, 2020 7:49pm
- Ruahine
  
  $300 fine coming for that student. Eh Cindy.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:08am
- oldpark
  
  Yes meanwhile the boot gets put into any thing suspected of religious flavour in Auckland regarding COVID-19 . Especially from “Control Freak Ardern” . Wonder what is her take on the Air India Plane Arrival into NZ with it is alleged 17 of the Passengers were diagnosed with the Coronavirus . Yes 17 times more than the alleged infection at an Auckland Catholic School that Ardern spoke about . Are we missing something here . Maybe some hugs could help . Just saying .
  
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  September 10, 2020 10:10am
  - Paulus
    
    Wasn’t it 2 flights from Delhi ?
    One via Fiji.
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:53am
- Allan
  
  I am beginning to think that arrogance and hypocrisy are Ardern’s and her cohorts modus operandi. The way that we are spoken to by her is like a childrens play centre teacher talking to a bunch of 3 year olds. The constant nodding of the angled head and concerned frown annoy me intensely. The silly little girl who is our dear leader is in a position way above her pay scale and despite the crowing of Sir Cullen’s sidekick IMHO the election results will prove to be totally different to what is expected.
  
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  September 10, 2020 11:23am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    In your dreams pal. If Labour is not forming the gummit on Oct 17th, I will forever keep my mouth shut. My prediction is Labour to get majority on their own. National won’t cross 30%
    
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    September 10, 2020 1:58pm
    - softail 1450
      
      S C S, I See your liquor consumption rate doesn’t slow down after mid day,,you are still delusional .
      
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      September 10, 2020 3:20pm
Yvette

The top two percent of Kiwi income earners would face a higher tax rate under Labour, with the party revealing its revenue policy to help fund the costs of Covid-19

This of course reduces Jacinda Ardern’s sloganised “Team of Five Million” to something less than Team of 100,000.

The 39 percent tax rate would apply to New Zealanders earning more than $180,000 a year, which Labour says represents only two percent of the population and would bring in roughly $550 million in additional revenue a year.

So, going by the kiwiblog side-bar counter “Covid Cost Counter – Cost to economy of Covid in real time in thousands of dollars”, now at about $41.5 billion, Team 100,000 will have that debt knocked off in just 83 years.
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September 10, 2020 8:02am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  The clowns in this 180K range are supporting Labour’s tax policy and are voting Labour. Yesterday the guy who owns Ecostore business on TV said, tax us more. Go figure. Let this country economically ruined then only Sheeple will wake up. Most of them are happily living on wage subsidy and artificially proped up jobs.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:14am
  - tf78
    
    SCS – I heard that idiot and thought to myself why don’t they do something useful for the people like build a (not a green) school or a hospital instead of virtual signalling. They give me the runs.
    
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    September 10, 2020 8:29am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      It is all talk and no action tf78. The eco store idiot will hire a tax consultant and ensue that his salary is 179,999 and not pay a single cent in extra tax. Only the PAYE fools will pay this extra tax. I am stopping using any more ecostore products.
      
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      September 10, 2020 9:43am
      - alloytoo
        
        I hope all the council and government employees who are in this bracket enjoy Grant’s early Christmas gift.
        
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        September 10, 2020 10:04am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      I have a friend who is pro wealth tax. No consideration of the fact that a shack in Auckland costs over 1 million and that many asset rich people have very low incomes.
      
      Also no consideration of the fact that we already pay housing tax (rates), and that once one has paid off an asset one should jolly well own it!
      
      Why don’t people like that just take a slice of their own assets and give it away? Don’t try and force it on the nation.
      
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      September 10, 2020 12:14pm
  - Chris R
    
    Given I am self-employed there have been years when I would be in the $180K+ category and many years when I have been well below the mark. If in the future I look to be heading above the $180K mark I shall make internal adjustments to flatten my profits…it isn’t difficult. This is yet another instance of the government revealing its inability to think and read business enterprise.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:22am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    If he feels that strongly about it, the virtue signalling nitwit from Ecostore can make voluntary payments to the IRD as large as he wants. Will he? Yeah, nah.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:40am
  - fisho
    
    Similar to the self-flagellating monks and priests of olde, the main difference being they knew they were part of a religious cult whereas these clowns can’t see the wood for the trees.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:46am
  - Maxx
    
    Is that the same eco store that caused a panic amongst customers by announcing a fake product recall to promote new packaging? That guy’s really got his finger on the pulse.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:51am
  - amospicton
    
    Ask any of these clowns who believe that tax rates should be higher to send money to the IRD. Go ahead and pay more tax….no?….didn’t think so.
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:03am
  - Dougal10
    
    Most of the people who will actually pay this tax are civil servants so it isn’t going to increase the tax take .
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:46am
  - Paulus
    
    Surprised – have you seen the number of MPs and Staff, Wellington Senior Public Servants and Council Employees in this category.
    That does about the 2 % overall of the working population in this category.
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:56am
  - hullkiwi
    
    SCS, when you consider many of those earning more than $180k are indeed public sector bureaucrats, politicians and university academics you can understand why there is support for this policy. These overpaid turkeys already vote Labour and think tax is love!
    
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    September 10, 2020 11:57am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  thats assuming they stem the flow of cash today…
  
  nutha 3yrs and nz will be nearing debt of 80% gdp. The irony will be those that she splashes the cash most to will likely be the hardest hit if we every go down the austerity route.
  
  id be getting good health insurance sorted in the next few years aswell cos give it a decade and our healthcare will be terrible and even more underfunded.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:15am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Nice thought, but health insurance premiums can only be locked in annually. Over 65’s are constantly looking for reduced cover to afford anything.
    
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    September 10, 2020 8:34am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      over 65s have lived a life already, im a big supporter of canning public funded treatments for cancer etc for those past a certain age. eg if you get the pension then ineligible, humans are selfish and live to long and become a massive drain on society.
      
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      September 10, 2020 9:08am
      - Jimmy White
        
        Were will than policy end.
        How soon will the Boxer;s be added to the list.
        As is ‘The Nine’ are now harassing the Hens and Pigs and Napoleon rules supreme.
        
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        September 10, 2020 9:24am
      - Nickc2
        
        The same way the nephs and their mum(s) lay around all day on the couch playing video games on their stolen devices and waiting for nightfall when they can go and rob a dairy or bottle shop to pay for their drugs, add to their alcohol habit and because their dole doesn’t give them enough for food and lodging?
        
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        September 10, 2020 9:32am
      - Flossie
        
        It’s attitudes like that which make want to vote No to the euthanasia referendum. Next minute it’ll be compulsory for certain ages.
        
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        September 10, 2020 10:18am
      - alwyn
        
        65? That is far too old.
        Why don’t we follow the script from “Logan’s Run” and bump everyone off when they reach 30?
        
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        September 10, 2020 10:36am
      - Komata
        
        WP@)0908
        
        Re: ‘Over 65s have lived a life already…’,
        
        An interesting statement, and to make it with such absolute certainty, I’d guess that you’d be a millennial, and don’t ever intend to reach that age?
        
        Am I correct?
        
        Thank you.
        
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        September 10, 2020 10:40am
      - Sacha
        
        I find that statement offensive.
        You, wimpston peeeders, appear to have no concept of selfishness , but plenty of self-interest which you display so clearly in your comment.
        Just wait until YOU are 70 and perhaps need a zap or two for your prostate –
        
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        September 10, 2020 11:08am
      - wimpston peeeders
        
        look at the huge advances in life expectancy, couple that with virtualy no population control and its a recipie for disaster, totally unsustainable.
        
        why pour huge resourses and public funds into extending lives for those nearing the end? im not saying deny treatment but deny public funding, if youve done well in life and can afford it then go for it.
        
        komata, sacha I have a differing view on life, I decided when I was a teen I didnt wana get old and be a burden. from mid 40s on I truly dont care, my children will be grown up and able to sort themselves so any cancer illness etc I wont bother fighting. and yup I dont save for retirement because theres no way id let myself get there, id rather any health resourses be used on those younger and more in need.
        
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        September 10, 2020 11:56am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Offensive? Ok, but I’m so glad we have (at least somewhat) free speech here.
        
        That said, I don’t agree that 65 y olds should be ‘written off’.
        
        My experience with NZ health services is that they could be run far more efficiently to achieve more. No need to throw people in the bin.
        
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        September 10, 2020 12:21pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The easiest way to gain $550M /year is for Robbo not to waste it. He’s got a personal credit line from the RB fro $100Bn. Is Parliament going to have any authority over the spending of that?
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:24am
- beadgame
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Labour is following sound economic policy – run a deficit and generally don’t increase taxes in a downturn. But top earners are generally not affected by downturn, so appropriate to increase their rate. Also note NZ top bracket of 39% still below Australia’s 45%. Only fair that top earners that benefit the most from opportunities available in our wonderful country also pay the most. It is still a team of 5 million – everybody still pays the GST.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:32am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Just comparing two international progressive income tax scales is pointless. Aus. has payroll taxes for health and I believe other things. The impact of GST is different at 10% v. 15%. The states also have individual tax rights.
    Don’t encourage our few remaining taxpayers to leave us.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:00am
    - Nickc2
      
      In Aust, the first $14k is tax-exempt. We tax from the first $1.00 earnt.
      
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      September 10, 2020 9:38am
    - Flossie
      
      And they also have stamp duty. In Queensland I know it’s even payable on a second hand private car sale.
      
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      September 10, 2020 11:02am
    - beadgame
      
      Yes – but it is only the top rate that is being changed under Labour’s plan, so it is entirely relevant to compare to Australia’s top rate. Leaving NZ over taxes is all talk and no action. Everyone loves to complain about taxes.
      
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      September 10, 2020 3:20pm
  - Swifty
    
    “….so appropriate to increase their rate.”
    
    Fascinating how casually you describe a state’s forced confiscation of its citizens earnings – and to then piss away on policies to further a party’s political ends.
    
    The $3Bn PGF is worth 6 years of these tax increases.
    
    ALONE.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:09am
    - beadgame
      
      That’s how our democracy works – our elected government taxes us and then decides how best to spend the money. It would be rare for everyone to agree on how to spend the money, which is why we have elections. I generally agree with Labour’s spending choices, and do not think they are politically motivated. On the other hand, National’s proposal to keep zombie Tiwai alive is all about politics as there is no economic case to make.
      
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      September 10, 2020 3:30pm
      - Swifty
        
        “I generally agree with Labour’s spending choices, and do not think they are politically motivated.”
        
        Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!
        
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        September 10, 2020 5:48pm
  - Swifty
    
    “Only fair that top earners……….also pay the most.”
    
    Please define ‘fair’.
    
    Please state categorically a ‘fair’ tax rate.
    
    Please state categorically how much tax high-earners should pay annually.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:13am
    - Sacha
      
      Dyed-in-the-wool Labourites will only hear that the selfish rich pricks are being taxed more, and they will think that that is ‘fair’.
      They won’t know that the increase only applies to the amount above $180k. And no-one will tell them.
      
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      September 10, 2020 11:14am
      - beadgame
        
        Suggest being careful with stereotyping – many of us don’t remotely fit your characterization – and comes across as arrogant.
        
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        September 10, 2020 3:49pm
  - greenfinger
    
    Is your name Richard??
    
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    September 10, 2020 2:00pm
    - beadgame
      
      No – just “Rich”
      
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      September 10, 2020 3:49pm
- plc
  
  The 39% tax on income over $180k is a tax on stupidity.
  
  The only people that will end up paying it are public servants.
  
  All the “socialist” lawyers and accountants will have their tax affairs managed to avoid the tax.
  
  In a way, I’m glad they are bringing it in. Public Service troughers deserve it….
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:45am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    Breaking news: High paid councillors and council ceo have just voted payrises all round.
    
    yup thats what will happen and the ratepayers will foot half that 500mil tax take robbos expecting.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:10am
  - sooty
    
    Was it bought in so MPs just miss out paying?
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:14am
  - rockape
    
    I was talking with a hospital consultant. He plans to work less for the DHB and invest more time and money into his private practice. Why do a hip op and get taxed to hell when you can hire the theatre and put the cash into the trust that is your business.
    End result is his rich insured patients get quicker service and those reliant on the DHB get slower service. Socialism and unintended consequences again!
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:33am
    - Durden
      
      Can’t divert salary to trust easily anymore. There is something called personal attribution rules. If more than 80% of income is earned by one person’s exertions, that person has to declare a proper equivalent of income they would have gained. Can’t pay yourself just 45000 or something at lower tax and transfer rest to trust anymore. The rule was changed when the two surgeons doing this lost their case.
      
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      September 10, 2020 3:59pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Add Auckland City Council workers to your second and last sentences and you will be spot on.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:42am
  - Islay Malt
    
    Unfortunately lawyers are limited by regulations in terms of their ability to structure their practices like other professionals can. So they’ll definitely be paying the extra.
    
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    September 10, 2020 11:12am
- Tony Stuart
  
  It’s interesting that the $180,000 threshold is just high enough to not include backbench MP’s. Did Grant Robertson propose a lower threshold, and get rolled by a boisterous Labour backbench?
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:58am
  - niggly
    
    Was wondering that too yesterday! Looks like Labour’s invisible and useless backbench (who have never been paid so much before) have their snouts firmly gripping that trough … kinda like those car competitions where one has to keep their hands on the car the longest and snarling at their competitors to win the prize!
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:40am
  - oldfella
    
    TS: Did Cindy ever take that 20% salary cut she promised? You know, so she could ‘feelz’ the pain?
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:21am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      MP’s did eventually take a 10% cut in their salaries. Ohariu MP Greg O’Connor caught some flack when he had a whinge about how much car repairs were going to cost them on the week the cut took effect. He seemed to forget that there were plenty of people in his electorate whose pay was being cut, or who had lost their jobs completely.
      
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      September 10, 2020 10:40am
MT_Tinman

By forcing people to stay within their own little groups is the dictatorship actually increasing the incidence and severity of the virus?

Would it be better to tell people to get out, enjoy the sunshine and allow the UV light to destroy the virus naturally?
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September 10, 2020 8:03am
- krazykiwi
  
  Yes, and yes. But this government is focused on what’s better for them, no matter the cost to us
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:10am
- BAM
  
  The USA has just had their summer and the total number of cases so far is 6.5 million.
  
  At the beginning of summer which was the 20th of June, there were 2.2 million cases.
  
  So an extra 4.3 million cases over summer, I think we can rule out the
  get out, enjoy the sunshine and allow the UV light to destroy the virus naturally
  theory.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:28am
- kowtow
  
  In the Dandemic over in Victoria , they say stay locked up at home ,where you catch it but not to go out into the sunshine and open ,where you don’t .
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:36am
Maggie Pie

FAITH OVER SCIENCE –
otherwise known as a complete ‘cluster….’

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ehfgr6ZWAAEGipo?format=jpg&name=small
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September 10, 2020 8:05am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  they have more faith in jebus and god then they do cindy 🙂
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:59am
  - alwyn
    
    So do I actually.
    And I am an atheist whose faith in God is zero.
    I’ll let you work out how much faith I have in Cindy.
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:41am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      im think the same too 🙂
      
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      September 10, 2020 11:57am
krazykiwi

ACT are campaigning on the absurd level of debt being taken on by this government. The figure is $28,000 for every man, woman and child in New Zealand.

We know that 12 per cent of individuals pay just under half of all personal taxation, and the top 3 per cent pay almost a quarter of all personal tax.

That $28,000 debt is more like $55,000 for each net taxpayer, and a majority of the debt servicing being supported by the most mobile of all NZers – the high income earners.

Ardern, together with what she passes off as her ‘team’ will bankrupt our little country if left in charge.
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September 10, 2020 8:07am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  “Ardern, together with what she passes off as her ‘team’ will bankrupt our little country if left in charge.” – Bro she will win this election comfortably and NZ economy will be screwed beyond repair in the next couple of years. Hope that teaches Sheeple a lesson.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:15am
  - Nickc2
    
    Did I hear Robertson correctly this morning say that there was no intention currently to repay the debt, it was something NZ was prepared to like with? I was in the shower at the time and came away with the impression that that was what he was on about.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:47am
    - Paulus
      
      He expects to tell the Reserve Bank to write off the Debts completely so he can say how well he has done.
      
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      September 10, 2020 11:00am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        In other words: giant inflation?
        
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        September 10, 2020 12:35pm
    - cmm
      
      Not repay the debt is code for:
      
      National can fix it when they’re next in power for 9 years while we bitch about 9 years of neglect.
      
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      September 10, 2020 1:54pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  I hate it when Ardern refers to her team of 5Million–I’m definitely not included so the numbers are inflated.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:27am
  - namron
    
    I have sometimes wondered if perhaps DFP – or someone could create a website [or something] where we could show our loathing of “the team of 5 million” by officially LEAVING it.
    The satisfaction I would feel that ardern was not referring to me any more, especially since I hadn’t agreed to be a part of it in the first place.
    
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    September 10, 2020 8:55am
    - Okahu
      
      Sure, but why get DPF involved in your affairs. Just fly away! The team wins. You win, apparently. Bingo.
      
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      September 10, 2020 9:20am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        I quit the Team of Five Million a month or so ago. It might have been just after the revelation that the Government spent $16 million with two PR firms to get its Covid-19 messaging locked in.
        
        “Team of Five Million”, “Hard and Early” and “Be Kind” were not Ardernisms. They were trite PR slogans, purchased with OUR money.
        
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        September 10, 2020 10:53am
      - niggly
        
        The firms will surely be buying gold-plated autocues for the PM next, with the money they’ve pocketed from the taxpayer!
        
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        September 10, 2020 9:39pm
    - Flossie
      
      Maybe she’ll figure it out at the election when half of the “Team” don’t vote for her. But then that didn’t stop her becoming our Team Leader three years ago did it?
      
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      September 10, 2020 10:25am
  - Jimmy White
    
    Ditto here
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:26am
- [email protected]
  
  So who do we raise taxes for? The people already paying the most tax.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:39am
  - Jimmy White
    
    No!, the People who pay no tax, lounge on their arses smoking P and beating children.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:28am
- rockape
  
  But that debt won’t be paid off by the team of 5 million, just by the team of 2%.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:37am
- IC5000
  
  I was interested in how Australia compared and it’s frightening. Since 2013 when the Coalition came into power public debt levels have tripled from 233 billion to 683 billion.
  
  In 2018 it was 23,000 per person so it looks like it’s going to be a lot higher after covid has been factored in.
  
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  September 10, 2020 11:50am
- beadgame
  
  Austerity during an economic downturn is the worst economic response. Instead, do things like cutting GST like David recommends. Interest rates are cheap, so the additional debt can be managed. This will enable economy to recover faster, and then we can bank the surpluses.
  
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  September 10, 2020 3:59pm
artemisia

Wellington City Council social housing in big trouble. The council has always said that the portfolio of 2000 units washes its own face and is not a burden on the ratepayer. Rents averaging 70% of market rates are plenty.

Suddenly not so much and taxpayers are begged to bail the council out. Those taxpayers already provide these tenants with a handout in the form of the Accommodation Supplement if they qualify.

The taxpayer forked out $200million a few years back for upgrades, all spent and the matching amount from the council not happening. So much for a contract then.

Time for the inept council social housing function to bow out and leave it to the private sector and sadly the few remaining net taxpayers.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12363640
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September 10, 2020 8:09am
- krazykiwi
  
  Our council is controlled by polite Green activists. They have no commercial savvy. Human nature, laws of physics, economic principles, and history itself are expected to bow to their ideology.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:20am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Isn’t Julie Anne Genter’s partner now employed by the WCC?
    
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    September 10, 2020 8:59am
    - sooty
      
      Bet she will be asking her partner to put in a good word for her shortly!
      
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      September 10, 2020 11:12am
    - Nickc2
      
      Yep, he’s CEO for bicycle lanes (a council owned enterprise soon to be established).
      
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      September 10, 2020 11:34am
- mandk
  
  The housing doesn’t need to be left to the private sector. It could be left to the Community Housing sector.
  
  Under present rules, Councils are not able to use the Income Related Rent Scheme, which would enable them to charge tenants no more than 25% of their gross income and claim the difference between that and the full market rent from the MSD.
  
  Community Housing organisations, on the other hand, can use the IRRS.
  
  Moreover, the core business of Community Housing providers is housing and nothing else, whereas for Councils housing is a bit of a neglected sideline.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:25am
  - artemisia
    
    I did say the private sector and taxpayers.
    
    Wellington CC was quite canny completing a social housing development then leasing it to Kainga Ora. Probably much the same people living in the units but with IRR and the council off the hook. (Taxpayers not so much.)
    
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    September 10, 2020 12:48pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  No service that has been able to be delivered by either (or both) the private sector and a government entity has ever been improved in terms of cost, value or outcome by giving it to the government entity to run it. None.
  
  The Salvation Army are also notoriously poor at managing their housing and tenants, give it to the private sector there are some good NFP operators about.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:48am
  - artemisia
    
    Quite a lot of landlord stories about leasing to the social housing sector. Maybe 90% bad experiences, coming with a warning to other landlords. Of course the good experiences might not get airtime. But still.
    
    One recent case, an experienced landlord, rented a newly renovated place via a big NGO, with a view to giving a bit back.
    
    Sadly the place was returned via eviction in two months, yes two months, pretty much wrecked. He didn’t blame the tenants really, they were new to the country and had not much idea. He did blame the NGO that was supposed to provide support, didn’t and walked away from the damage.
    
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    September 10, 2020 12:56pm
    - chuk
      
      Apologies to Artemisia for my downtick error
      
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      September 10, 2020 2:00pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Council may well be inept, but the problem here is that the government has stopped helping out with the rent because it wants people in state houses not housing supplied by any other provider.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:55am
  - artemisia
    
    Council tenants can get the Accommodation Supplement if they qualify, also Temporary Additional Support (TAS). Those are help with rent, paid by taxpayers.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:16am
wimpston peeeders

a question id love to see put out to opinion polls just to gauge how shallow voters are.

“Would you vote for labour if jacinda ardern wasnt leader”

My guess would be labours support would almost halve.
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September 10, 2020 8:09am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Dead right. Remember when Angry was in charge and they were polling at 24%.
  It mystifies and concerns me that the sheeple are voting for a personality cult rather than a competent Government.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:30am
  - kowtow
    
    To paraphrase Churchill;
    
    The best argument against democracy is a 5 second conversation with a New Zealand swing voter , “She’s a breath of fresh air and she’s saved us from covid”
    
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    September 10, 2020 8:41am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    not a thing to be proud of really but sad thing is a party needs morons like that to vote them in.
    
    people should be voting on principles and what they value personally, unfortunately its just a glorifie high school popularity contest with skills and intellegence not counting.
    And if voters values and principles change that often then god help up all.
    
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    September 10, 2020 8:51am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Just shows how stupid the average voter is. If National had for example, the singer Katy Perry as leader, they may soar in the polls!
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:24am
- cas
  
  yes I try to say to Jacinda lovers, what would happen if J got run over by a bus and Kelvin was PM. Same labour party , same policies. The look of amazement on their faces is priceless , then denial about kelvin. And finally an admittance that yes it is all about the personality.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:39am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Here’s your answer to that. National’s party vote hoardings feature both Judith Collins and Gerry Brownlee. Labour’s hoardings feature the PM, with Davis nowhere to be seen.
    
    Even on the candidate hoardings, National’s ones have Collins on on the left-hand side, and the candidate on the right-hand side, with text in between. Labour’s have the candidate standing behind Ardern.
    
    This election is about the cult of personality, and little else. You could say the same about National in 2008, 2011 and 2014, but at least John Key had a competent team behind him.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:05am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      Grant Robertson is the actual deputy, Kelvin is simply the figurehead token Maori given a title well beyond his means.
      
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      September 10, 2020 9:26am
      - sooty
        
        Bet he’s pissed that he has to pay more tax!
        
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        September 10, 2020 11:16am
    - Swifty
      
      The left have a long history of idolising their leaders.
      
      The right respect their leaders, at best, but lefties WORSHIP theirs.
      
      http://www.eddiessovietposters.com/gallery-canvas/LeninStalinRedArmySovietPoster.html
      
      Weird.
      
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      September 10, 2020 9:38am
      - rockape
        
        Remember all the lefty love there was for the union appointed muppet Little.
        
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        September 10, 2020 10:04am
      - Swifty
        
        And, rockape, the fawning adulation of Lord Cunners – a ‘game-changer’ they said….
        
        Snigger.
        
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        September 10, 2020 10:39am
    - herb1
      
      Tony what needs to be pointed out is Labour governing alone leaves us with Davis as PM if Arderns quits, is ill or even on overseas trips
      
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      September 10, 2020 11:28am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Isn’t Winston still our Deputy Prime-minister?
    
    He’d take over … (at least up until election day)
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:40am
    - Dougal10
      
      The leader of NZ first is the deputy pm and acting when the part time PM on holiday . But if she was run over by a bus the new leader of Labor being Davis would be PM. She only PM because she current Labor leader.
      
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      September 10, 2020 10:59am
- DeepBlue
  
  That is a huge amount of pressure she has to wear for an extra month.
  
  After the election all promises will be off. The plan was to say GDP is sooooo bad, but we only had 2 days warning, now we have to be radical with tax to be kind.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:40am
- MCos
  
  Going by that reasoning National needs a new leader – again.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:22am
oldpark

Seems it is different when they do it . Some time ago with our Main Export Earner Agricultural Producers the back bone of NZs Economy the Farming Community screaming out for Control Freak Ardern and her Sycophants to lift the Border Restrictions allowing desperately needed Farm workers into NZ .
Judith Collins made the Common Sense call for restrictions to be lifted .
Well with a common sense call like that Judith Collins was attacked by all and sundry for having the gall and temerity to ask for such a common sense request .
Leading the charge the heavily bribed Sycophantic so called Mainstream Media was the NZ “toilet paper” Herald , the worth$1 .00 Dollar Stuff. TVNZ, Red Radio, TVNZ, Newshub . Etc Etc.
Their comments against Judith Collins and National for suggesting such an idea . Almost as if her even suggesting that idea to lift Border Restrictions for Agricultural Employees was virtually close to being Treasonous.
Now it seems Judith Collins common sense suggestion has finally been grasped by Control Freak Ardern and her ne’er do well gang of no hopers and clowns . Even if it has taken a month to sink into their thick skulls.
Just to reiterate it . Its Different when the far Left Control Freaks do it . Now the same bunch of heavily bribed Media are claiming the decision to Relax Border Restriction is the the right one .
No shit Sherlock .
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September 10, 2020 8:23am
Fletch

Some anti-Trump Republican loonie on Hosking’s show from the U.S pushing his TDS bullshit. I don’t know why Hosking doesn’t have a pro-Trump guy on to refute this rubbish.
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September 10, 2020 8:27am
- MCos
  
  What did this person say, or are you suggesting that anyone who doesn’t care for Mr Trump is mentally unstable?
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:30am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    There is an easy test for mental stability:
    “Man, woman, person, camera, TV”
    
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    September 10, 2020 11:09am
- Jimmy White
  
  You mean “Balanced Reporting” Say those words to the MSM and they have to run to their dictionaries.
  But on there way they will most certainly trip over the $50 million
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:33am
- tf78
  
  Fletch – he writes for the Atlantic -so what else would you expect. (I also think he might be Canadian).
  
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  September 10, 2020 10:38am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  More evidence that the Dems and their allies are sowing the seeds to steal the election via ballot fraud. Mr Zuckerberg himself this time:
  
  https://twitter.com/Perpetualmaniac/status/1303097486437879808
  
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  September 10, 2020 12:33pm
Maggy Wassilieff

@Maggie Pie

This isn’t your favourite Kreme Puff eatery is it?
https://thespinoff.co.nz/food/09-09-2020/three-auckland-eateries-linked-to-new-covid-19-cases/
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September 10, 2020 8:28am
- tf78
  
  Maggy – is Jacinda the Super Spreader?!
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:39am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Appreciate your concern Maggs, but all three eateries mentioned in the article, are located in the more lower socio-economic areas.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:51am
  - Swifty
    
    Crave is good.
    
    We had our first post-lockdown graze there.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:03am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    That’s usually where you get the best Junk food.
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:46am
Simon

NZ tax payer gifted $5 million to the China concentration camp flick Mulan.

The NZ state useful idiots of the CCP.

Why is this allowed?

Where does all this hatred come from?
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September 10, 2020 8:30am
- Swifty
  
  That’s not a fair or reasonable characterisation of the deal Simon.
  
  It is a rebate on spending.
  
  If they got $5M from the Film Commission then they producers will have spent at least $25M locally.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:01am
  - cmm
    
    Call it what you want but it is still $5M.
    
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    September 10, 2020 1:51pm
  - chukar
    
    Not always a win Swifty.
    Many movies , including some we have never heard of , lose money.and the spinoff benefits are so taxpayer subsidised that NZ also misses out.
    An economic analysis of the supposed Avatar benefits a couple of years back was very revealing.
    
    Film making ,in NZ ,is not the goldmine it has been portrayed as!
    
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    September 10, 2020 3:02pm
    - Swifty
      
      chukar and cmm – I quite agree with your points, my only beef is one of the integrity of the criticism.
      
      It is wrong to describe the situation as a taxpayer handout, it’s not, it’s a rebate on spending – but of course one can argue whether this rebate is justified.
      
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      September 10, 2020 4:59pm
- SGA
  
  Huh? The Mouse took advantage of the tax breaks afforded to films made in NZ to shoot a movie based in early Chinese times. Isn’t that how it worked? Your message is so terse, I’m not sure what is upsetting you.
  
  Btw, there is a joint Netflix/Australian/NZ series called “The New Legends of Monkey” on Netflix at the moment – should that be bothering me too?
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:15am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Why is there no canvassing for public servants to take a wage cut? Currently the blows to income are being borne almost entirely by the private sector.

How about everyone on the public payroll earning more than, say, $120,000 taking a 5% cut; everyone over $150,000 taking a 10% cut & over $200,000 a 15% cut? Or put in your own levels & % values.
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September 10, 2020 8:32am
- Bobba Fret
  
  That is far too fair and sensible. Please do not utter those words again.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:29am
  - chukar
    
    No shout it from the rooftops!
    
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    September 10, 2020 3:03pm
- mark15
  
  That would need an act of parliament or something so complicated that it would be easier to proclaim it and then say its too hard and everyone will forget about it soon.
  Lets do this.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:29am
- SGA
  
  Would that help or hinder an economic recovery?
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:32am
- MCos
  
  Isn’t that another variation on Labour’s tax policy; only far more severe?
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:36am
I remember when

Hey ho, Hey ho it’s not our fault again.
Pacific churches have been spreading misinformation.
It’s the longest line in New Zealand at the present time. The line of those preventing the Government from being successful!
Who would ever have imagined that not everyone would act responsibly?
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September 10, 2020 8:32am
- Fletch
  
  Yeh, the push in the media is that its the fault of the churches here following churches in the U.S on social media. It’s all their fault. Pop in a quote by a pastor here saying that they are only in front of their congregation for one hour a week and can’t compete with social media.
  Easy scapegoat.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:55am
- tf78
  
  It’s all Trump’s fault didn’t you hear.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:56am
- Albert_Ross
  
  You might want to think a bit more carefully about where this line of argument will lead you.
  
  Some things are the Government’s fault, no disputing that. But irresponsible action, against Government advice and even against actual law, by some individuals – that is on those individuals. Nobody else.
  
  For if we are to argue that irresponsible behaviour by some people is not their fault but the Government’s fault, then we are saying that we expect the Government to prevent it.
  
  What exactly should they have done to prevent it?
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:21am
  - [email protected]
    
    You are correct of course. But to assume that everyone will do the right thing is naive.
    
    We (try) to elect leaders who will have the foresight to understand these things and take appropriate action.
    
    5 1
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    September 10, 2020 12:59pm
  - tf78
    
    Albert, sorry you missed my point.
    The church which is Evangelical from America, been around for many, many years – because it’s American it’s Trump’s fault.
    
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    September 10, 2020 6:24pm
- MCos
  
  It’s the Mt Roskill Evangelical Fellowship Church, which has been a problem as anyone who follows the daily updates will know. They are not a ‘Pacific’ church, but fundamentalist Christians.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:58am
I remember when

Bricklane Restaurant and Bar:
“An anti-bacteria fogging of the entire premises.”
I thought it was a virus!
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September 10, 2020 8:37am
- lifesgood
  
  Semantics…you know what they mean.
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:55am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  I find it extremely weird that a deep clean is undertaken long after the patient visited, eg. the supermarkets done so when more then a week had passed.
  
  probably more to stop social media backlash then any virus worries
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:56am
  - Jules99
    
    Yes, it is nonsense, but then so is saying someone caught it in a lift, when bad behaviour is the more likely reason.
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:46am
peterwn

See:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12363264
Fired oil rig worker awarded $35,000 by ERA. I would say that was cheap at the price – an alcohol related accident on a oil rig would have cost the employer at least 10 times this amount not to mention the possible death or grave injury to an innocent employee.
This is not a game of tiddlywinks – lives are at risk.
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September 10, 2020 8:44am
JSelway

I have a question – why is pointing out Trump lied when he obviously has lied regarded as TDS?

He’s a provable liar – it’s not TDS, it’s pointing out that the liar lied
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September 10, 2020 8:52am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  please name 1 political figure that hasnt told a lie.
  just 1… cant be that hard
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:14am
  - JSelway
    
    When Trump lies – “Hey, all politicians lie”
    
    When Pelosi lies – “Burn her!”
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:57am
    - herb1
      
      When a Democrat lies” hey all politicians lie”
      
      When Trump lies “ burn him and any scum who support him and any scum who don’t actively try and kill him”
      
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      September 10, 2020 11:33am
    - softail 1450
      
      JSelway, It’d be a hell of a fire the bat shit crazy old bitch is 65% plastic.
      
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      September 10, 2020 3:24pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Jacinda Ardern….
    she told us so.
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:48am
    - sooty
      
      That was her first lie!
      
      10 1
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      September 10, 2020 11:23am
      - MT_Tinman
        
        That was her first lie!
        
        I doubt that – she’s too good at it.
        
        6 1
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        September 10, 2020 12:57pm
- Fletch
  
  All politicians lie. Biden lies all the time. So did Hillary and Obama. But generally the media don’t care. Trump lies less than most, I think.
  Today the big story is Trump saying he downplayed the seriousness of the coronavirus to keep the country calm. And yet, at the time, his #1 advisor on the subject Dr Fauci was appearing on TV saying that America had nothing to fear from the virus –
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqg2kQDlPKw
  
  https://soundcloud.com/john-catsimatidis/dr-anthony-fauci-1-26-20
  
  So you think Trump wasn’t taking cues from his advisor? And it wasn’t just Trump. All the TV networks were pushing back against Trump too and saying that it wasn’t anything to worry about and that the flu was worse –
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVDPVBZF2Xg
  
  To add to that you had Dems saying that Trump restricting travel from China was racist. Nancy Pelosi went down to Chinatown on February 24th as a publicity stunt and told everyone to come down. And New York was a disaster, with all their leaders and experts saying not to worry – continue going out on the subway, to bars, to the Chinese New Year celebration.
  
  So, who lied? And who was going off information available at the time?
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:16am
  - plc
    
    Jacinda doesn’t lie, she said so.
    
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    September 10, 2020 3:14pm
- David George
  
  The media lie and distort in a concerted campaign to vilify Nobel Peace Prize Nominee President Donald Trump. Don’t automatically believe anything you read J; Trumps so called lies are maliciously taken out of context, wildly embellished or outright lies themselves.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:25am
- Jimmy White
  
  Schiff never Lies
  
  7 2
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  September 10, 2020 9:44am
  - herb1
    
    Far more accurate to say Schiff never tells the truth
    
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    September 10, 2020 11:34am
- Inandout
  
  JS, a person who sounded like Joe Biden was quick off the mark (with a pre-arranged script?) slagging Trump once again. Of course Woodward is a Biden man through and through and is now a sort of American Nicky Hager. History will prove whether Trump misled or saved his country over the virus. Meantime Dem cities are burning while law abiding residents are suffering far more than any C19 lock down. 500,000 residents have fled NY city, an unbelievable figure.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:52am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Woodward has reported fairly evenly on every president since Nixon and Watergate. His interest has always been to convey the inside story. and you can hardly blame him for reporting Trump verbatim.
    
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    September 10, 2020 11:14am
- Okahu
  
  Because the Trumpwits who gather here in his defence have lost, or perhaps never held, any grasp on decency, integrity or civility. They choose tribe over future, ignorance over knowledge and happily combine and declare their failings in the bizarre ad hominem TDS!
  Bizarre, because as DPF has himself noted, declaring warranted charges on the orange one as deranged is itself … just a wee bit deranged.
  Perhaps we should just accept the TDS accusation as a group identity confirmation. Trump IS deranged, as are those who unquestioningly support him. Sounds like a syndrome of sorts to me. When you read TDS it pays to assume it’s shorthand for the declaration “I have TDS. I’m smitten by the vile, venal and stupid. This is my leader and my tribe and I’m proud of it!”
  
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  September 10, 2020 10:08am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    They are in love. They love his racism, misogyny, crassness and aggression. They love the way he lives up to their idea of a billionaire businessman, as acted on a tacky reality show. He says the things which they long to say.
    There is nothing he can say or do that will shake their cult-like devotion. Anything that sounds bad when reported will be denied. If is it verified completely, the claim will shift from ‘out of context’ or ‘not as bad as’ to an outright defence of whatever horrible sentiment has been expressed.
    And Trump knows his cult members. He knows that he would have defenders even if he did shoot someone on 5th Avenue.
    
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    September 10, 2020 11:22am
  - Fletch
    
    Really? I mean, really? The Democrats are the textbook definition of everything at odds with decency, civility and integrity. It’s laughable. Democrats are the most mean-spirited, conniving, deceitful, venal, power hungry party ever. They think nothing of smearing an opponent, outright lies using their allies in the media. The problem with conservatives is the opposite. They are too polite. When they protest they are orderly, clean up their rubbish, respect their fellow citizens.
    
    Look at Pelosi, Nadler, Schiff, Schumer, AOC, etc. Could you really describe them as decent and civil?
    
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    September 10, 2020 12:09pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Funnily enough, his comment was about our resident Trumpistas and their ludicrous group identity. He didn’t say anything about the Democrats. One doesn’t have to be a Democrat supporter to recognise Trump as a moronic blowhard and his followers as deluded imbeciles.
      
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      September 10, 2020 1:25pm
      - softail 1450
        
        MMA , Even a fool like yourself knows Trump is going to win again though aye MMA?
        
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        September 10, 2020 3:27pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Given the US’s headlong rush towards banana republic status, I won’t be at all surprised if Trump manages to cling to power.
        
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        September 10, 2020 6:24pm
lifesgood

The polls confuse me. What they suggest is that a large percentage of people who voted National, which won, last election have now switched to voting Labour. That defies logic, especially since Labour has failed in every area and most Nat voters were outraged by the treachery of Winston. I just don’t buy it.
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September 10, 2020 8:55am
- BAM
  
  People generally follow whatever is popular, it’s the inbuilt programming of the average human sheep.
  
  Ardern is currently popular, people follow Labour because of Ardern.
  
  It was the same with John Key, Key himself said Ardern would be very hard to beat if she became leader.
  
  This is the major problem with democracy, dumb shallow people decide the direction or lack of direction the country goes.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:38am
  - Okahu
    
    Yes. Exhibit A: Trump.
    
    5 11
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    September 10, 2020 10:10am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  They have not switched to voting Labour, they have switched to voting for the Cindy personality cult. Policies have nothing to do with it.
  Voters are plain stupid.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:43am
- mikenmildagain
  
  National lost a leader; Labour found one. The people responded.
  
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  September 10, 2020 11:23am
gorse

I cannot help but think that National is throwing this election. I have a friend who lives in Taranaki and has a business with over 100 employees, no fool. He said to me yesterday that driving around around he counted over 30 Labour and NZ First signs, and only one National. OK, this is a blue area anyway, and National might not be putting much effort into it, but are they really trying? Articles on Newstalk today, saying Labour have it in the bag, other people commenting “where is National on this” etc. definitely not trying too hard. A good election to lose I guess.
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September 10, 2020 8:57am
- Stephen Russell
  
  I live in Marlborough. There is no shortage of Nat signs around here. A few weeks ago I was on holiday in the central NI (though not Taranaki) and likewise: plenty of Nat signs around.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:23am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I don’t know what part of Taranaki your friend lives in Gorse, but the Whanganui electorate (which starts just north of Stratford, across to Opunake) has a record number of hoardings up, especially along SH3, to Whanganui.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:30am
- Jules99
  
  I’m in Judith’s constituency and there don’t seem many signs here. Just some plain ones without her picture. But she has a good majority and I imagine being leader of the party gives her enough profile.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:43am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  Based on my trip to New Plymouth last weekend I would say he was wrong, plenty of National signs up everywhere, quite a few Labour and Advance NZ as well. Minimal ACT and Greens signs and one or 2 NZ First.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:47am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Look how much damage has occurred already. NZ cannot afford to bed these communists in. The next three years will likely see the hardest global economic times. That we will not be immune from. If COVID kills elderly, economic strife kills community hope and opportunity giving enormous stress and both direct and indirect deaths.
  Time coming will take the best of us to manage.
  
  ☑️☑️Integrity, dutiful, proven☑️☑️
  
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  September 10, 2020 10:47am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Just driven to Tolaga Bay (53 Km on SH35)….
  I’ve seen 2 Nat signs… 1 standing, 1 lying down in a paddock.
  A few Labour signs; A couple of NZ Public Party signs at Tolaga; No Act, Green, NZ First or Maori Party signs.
  
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  September 10, 2020 2:11pm
cas

So is the scenario about no more taxes this? Jacinda said no CGT on her watch but what if she doesn’t last the next 3 years because of some wonderful overseas job offer and Robbo comes in. He hasn’t ruled it out
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September 10, 2020 9:18am
- Inandout
  
  cas, Robbo would not want the job because his personal life would be dissected by social media.
  
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  September 10, 2020 10:58am
- RJ
  
  Don’t worry, there will be plenty of new taxes and increases, just not called taxes. They will roll out the regional fuel tax around the country, despite that fact the rest of the country is already paying Auckland’s tax
  
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  September 10, 2020 12:17pm
- Paulus
  
  Dispite his belief, and that of of his in house coterie Robertson will not get the Union nod.
  It will be a woman and he does not I think qualify.
  
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  September 10, 2020 1:47pm
Stephen Russell

Interesting Reuters/Ipsos poll reported this morning. (Warning: Trump supporters will not like it.)
The poll gives Biden a large lead, but that is not the key part (any individual poll should be taken with a grain of salt). The two really interesting bits are:
1) The finding that only 5% of voters remain undecided, with 3% choosing a third party candidate. This, Reuters says, is half the level of 2016. This suggests that Biden’s lead will be hard for Trump to overcome even if it is small (and it is much smaller in swing states than nationally), because he will have to convert people who have already decided to vote for Biden; and
2) (Even more interesting) The finding that when the Likely Voter filter is applied, Biden’s lead increases substantially. Historically, the application of this filter favours Republicans. But I have now seen a string of polling reports where the LV filter is boosting Biden. Reuters has a second article explaining why here . Reuters says while Trump retains a lead among non-college educated whites, this group’s enthusiasm about voting has flatlined, while enthusiasm for voting among Biden-supporting groups is surging.
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September 10, 2020 9:21am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Down tickers did not like this news.
  
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  September 10, 2020 11:25am
  - softail 1450
    
    MMA ,Are these the same polling people that had Killary up by 30 points a week before 2016?,answer please MMA.
    
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    September 10, 2020 3:30pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      No.
      
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      September 10, 2020 6:22pm
- virtualmark
  
  For a few weeks now I’ve been watching the US polls just to total up the Biden + Trump percentages … and they consistently sum to 90%-94% sort of range.
  
  There don’t seem to be many undecided voters. I suspect that gets even less so when you restrict it to only those who actually intend to vote.
  
  Hard to see much movement between the two camps from here on. Unless either candidate self-implodes.
  
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  September 10, 2020 11:43am
JSelway

So now we have Trump admitting, on tape, that he knew how deadly Corona was, downplayed it purposely and lied to the public about it.

How can anyone support Trump after this? It isn’t fake news – it is Trump on tape. If Obama did this you’d want him for treason.
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September 10, 2020 9:33am
- Jimmy White
  
  But so did Pelosi, Schiff, Biden and Harris
  
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  September 10, 2020 10:19am
  - fernglas
    
    None of whom were the POTUS at that time.
    
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    September 10, 2020 10:50am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      He’s jumped straight to whataboutism. He forgot to:
      1. Deny Woodward’s report
      2. Claim that trump’s words were ‘taken out of context’.
      Then we go to ‘not as bad as’…
      
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      September 10, 2020 11:28am
      - Paulus
        
        Boring !
        
        6 1
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        September 10, 2020 1:48pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Got the tapes for that? Or just fervent belief?
    
    6 1
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    September 10, 2020 11:44am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      He don’t need no stinking evidence.
      
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      September 10, 2020 1:26pm
- Prince
  
  If it was Obama the report would be ‘Brave President makes valiant stand to stem widespread panic over Pandemic.’
  
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  September 10, 2020 10:34am
  - Inandout
    
    Prince, you have cottoned on to CNN-speak. Our media of course worship Jacinda; same thing.
    
    15 2
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    September 10, 2020 11:00am
  - softail 1450
    
    Prince, whilst getting two pipes smoked in the back of a limousine .
    
    3 2
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    September 10, 2020 3:33pm
- Billy Collins
  
  So Trump didn’t want to cause a panic, and you’re complaining about that?
  
  I’d put this down to Trump’s lack of vocabulary. He likely meant that he wanted to allay fears, but didn’t have the vocab for it.
  
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  September 10, 2020 10:58am
  - Inandout
    
    BC, and he doesn’t say ‘you know, the thing’ or ‘come on man’, can speak for hours and will completely demolish Joe Joe in a debate.
    
    6 5
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    September 10, 2020 11:41am
  - virtualmark
    
    Things Trump wants people to panic about:
    – Caravans from Central America
    – Illegal voting
    – Women ducttaped in the back of vans
    – Windmills causing cancer
    – The squad
    – Socialism
    – Antifa
    – Dishwashers
    
    Things Trump didn’t want people to panic about:
    – Covid-19
    
    Narrator: Only one of these things has caused 190,000 deaths.
    
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    September 10, 2020 11:46am
  - SGA
    
    So Trump didn’t want to cause a panic
    
    Meaning what? Most leaders of other countries seemed to be communicating the serious of the situation (some here would argue that, if anything, they exaggerated its serious) without any particularly spectacular social meltdown. What did he think that US citizens were going to do?
    
    6 2
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    September 10, 2020 12:01pm
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Our lost freedoms and gigantic debt are social meltdown.
      
      2 5
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      September 10, 2020 1:08pm
      - SGA
        
        Oh, so that’s what Trump went by “panic”. I would never have guessed that.
        
        1 1
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        September 10, 2020 6:57pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Labour did it too – in fact they attacked National and ACT over “politicising” it.
  
  11 3
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  September 10, 2020 11:25am
- virtualmark
  
  1972: Nixon tapes the White House, Bob Woodward reports on it.
  
  2020: Trump just lets Bob Woodward make the tapes.
  
  7 2
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  September 10, 2020 11:55am
  - virtualmark
    
    Nixon waited until he was well out of the White House before the Frost/Nixon interviews.
    
    But Trump seems to be in a hurry.
    
    5 1
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    September 10, 2020 2:04pm
- Fletch
  
  Fauci: the response of the Trump admin has been impressive, I can’t imagine anybody could be doing more.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyqSnWnNuEE
  
  6 4
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  September 10, 2020 12:18pm
- virtualmark
  
  So, apparently there are 18 hours of taped conversations, and most were from Trump calling Woodward, at night, from the Residence, for a post-Hannity chat/rant.
  
  So the White House PR machine doesn’t actually know what is on the tapes, just that there are 18 hours of them.
  
  Lordy, this could get messy.
  
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  September 10, 2020 2:00pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Correction: Appears it’s 18 conversations, spanning 9 hours of tapes.
    
    2 0
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    September 10, 2020 8:50pm
Rusty

Mayor Phil Goff is lambasting this Mt Roskill evangelical church for being irresponsible breaking social distance rules and spreading the virus in the community.

How come Goff/police did nothing during those BLM protests in Auckland during level 4?
41 2
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September 10, 2020 9:37am
- Tony Stuart
  
  A random, impertinent question; would Police have been dispatched to break up a prayer meeting during lockdown if the prayer meeting was being held in a mosque, or Buddhist or Hindu temple?
  
  38 3
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  September 10, 2020 9:51am
  - Rusty
    
    Agree with you 100%
    
    18 3
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    September 10, 2020 10:02am
  - Jimmy White
    
    They were and they didn’t
    
    9 3
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    September 10, 2020 10:18am
    - oldfella
      
      FWIW, a few months back a local in Tauranga told me that a Hindu temple close to his business frequently held large gatherings during the Level 4 lockdown. And that cops had been out to check on them several times, but the gatherings were never shut down.
      
      15 3
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      September 10, 2020 11:28am
- Herodotus
  
  On travels due to work a “group” of motor cycle enthusiasts was sighted leaving a very tightly secured premise. More than a bubble of 10. I maybe wrong as this may have been a work site.
  These bubbles exceeding 10 are “only” an issue and come to focus should there be an outbreak.
  
  6 1
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  September 10, 2020 1:26pm
Maggie Pie

A twitter friend residing in the US spotted a cop wearing this patch…..tweeted pic to see if anyone knew what it meant?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhZvSRdXsAM3png?format=jpg&name=medium
7 1
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September 10, 2020 10:29am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  “I may walk among the sheep, but make no mistake, I am the sheepdog.”
  
  12 1
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  September 10, 2020 10:52am
  - Inandout
    
    Maggy, and a Huntaway at that.
    
    6 1
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    September 10, 2020 11:04am
- Billy Collins
  
  Supposedly the phrase is a shorter version of:
  
  “I may walk among the sheep, but make no mistake. I am the sheepdog.”
  
  The patch is sold by Thin Blue Line, which sells pro-Police items. They say the punisher symbol and tagline present a message in which “law enforcement officers stand between the community and chaos.”
  
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  September 10, 2020 10:57am
  - cha
    
    The sheepdog doesn’t work for the sheep, it works for the shepherd. The shepherd fleeces the sheep when they’re productive, then slaughters them when he’s done with them.
    The courts are the punishers and anyone wearing that emblem is telling the people who they’re loyal to. And it ain’t the people.
    
    3 1
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    September 10, 2020 4:37pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Green School Principal off to Greener pastures….
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300103775/green-school-new-zealand-principal-quits-after-eight-months
13 0
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September 10, 2020 10:54am
- cmm
  
  Found a better trough?
  
  13 1
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  September 10, 2020 11:03am
  - Inandout
    
    cmm, they create no wealth, just suck on the tit.
    
    7 1
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    September 10, 2020 11:05am
    - sooty
      
      What nz quals did he have?
      
      3 0
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      September 10, 2020 1:18pm
- RJ
  
  That’s great news, a job opening for James Shaw
  
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  September 10, 2020 12:09pm
Littletramp

Does everyone realise the link between the Julian Assange case and the Main stream media all out attack on Trump? The Assange case taking place right now is about proving that a journalist is committing a felony when they publish leaked federal information, no matter how it was obtained. In the past the journos have never been prosecuted. If the courts convict Assange – look out below!
8 3
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September 10, 2020 11:06am
- RJ
  
  Might want to try again, you are trying to link to your email.
  
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  September 10, 2020 3:52pm
tf78

I would like to propose as poll question for Stuff to run-

“If an election were held tomorrow would you vote for :
1) Jacinda Ardern
2) The Labour Party?”

I would love to see the results, then we would know how bright the voters really are.
17 1
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September 10, 2020 11:12am
- RJ
  
  I’d like to propose a poll question for stuff to run
  
  Do you think stuff journalists are
  
  1. Tabloid journalists
  2. Drunk
  3. What! Stuff is still around?
  
  16 0
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  September 10, 2020 12:07pm
  - sooty
    
    What would you think if Cindy shot thru mid term? Would be another question!
    
    5 2
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    September 10, 2020 1:17pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  “If an election were held tomorrow would you vote for :
  1) Jacinda Ardern
  2) The Labour Party?”
  
  I think we know the answer already. The voters are as thick as pigshit.
  
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  September 10, 2020 4:58pm
greenfinger

IF Winnie publicly denounces Ardern’s massive income tax hike like he claimed he did with her capital gain tax proposal, I would be the first in the queue to vote for him, like he said he would be at the front of the queue to enter Pike River mine….
13 2
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September 10, 2020 11:25am
Maggie Pie

Trending now….

R U OK?

There’s even going to be a special “RUOK day”

Just saying.
7 1
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September 10, 2020 11:33am
- mandk
  
  I’m doing just fine.
  
  But I would want to give anyone who sent me that message a smack.
  
  6 1
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  September 10, 2020 11:44am
I remember when

Have we been looking in the wrong place for the Teem (of 5 million):
Teem: Empty, Pour
//teem molten metal into a mould.
Shape me, mould me…..
3 1
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September 10, 2020 11:45am
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300103875/what-pasifika-families-unpaid-work-means-to-new-zealand

Just appeared on Stuff homepage.
Great timing, seeing what is happening in South Auckland. So great in fact that it must be yet another diversionary tactic , or intended to offset something.
13 3
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September 10, 2020 11:53am
- graham
  
  Perhaps the media has suddenly realised that their stories on the Mt Roskill Evangelical Fellowship church – stories about how much money the church receives, Chris Hipkins lambasting them for “not accepting the science”, portraying them as fundamentalist law-breakers – might make them look as if they’re Maori- and Pasifika-bashing, so have decided to run some stories to say “hey, look at how we’re BUILDING UP and PRAISING Pasifika” …
  
  … especially in the light of how, just a month ago, they were supporting the howls of outrage around the conspiracy theories surrounding the South Auckland family, and running stories about how “we must be KIND and SUPPORTIVE to the Pacific Island family”.
  
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  September 10, 2020 12:12pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    That’s exactly the problem: tightrope between criticising dangerous beliefs but not wanting to appear racist.
    
    That has for years been the problem with attempts to rationally criticise Islamism too.
    
    6 3
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    September 10, 2020 1:18pm
    - Paulus
      
      Are some Lawyers in Christchurch currently looking at putting a damages case in the name of some of the families both killed and injured in the massacre against the Government for not protecting them ?
      They can do this in other countries.
      
      3 7
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      September 10, 2020 1:55pm
      - fernglas
        
        We have ACC
        
        7 0
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        September 10, 2020 2:58pm
  - graham
    
    It is quite bizarre that the NZ Herald has decided to run a story with the byline “Millions in revenue: The Mt Roskill church at centre of a storm”, and goes on to list how much money the church received as offerings, rental income, and how much they spend in salaries and remuneration.
    
    What on earth does that have to do with the Covid-19 issue?
    
    10 3
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    September 10, 2020 1:53pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Stories of how fools are parted from their money are always popular.
      
      1 5
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      September 10, 2020 3:31pm
    - sooty
      
      Envy!
      
      4 0
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      September 10, 2020 4:02pm
Nookin

Didn’t a certain union condemn privately run prisons, SERCO in particular, because private enterprise lead to unacceptable levels of naughtiness by prison staff?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122719710/rimutaka-prison-staff-investigated-for-alleged-drug-smuggling-money-laundering-for-gang-members
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September 10, 2020 11:54am
- cmm
  
  The unions were pissed off because their members were losing profitable little business opportunities.
  
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  September 10, 2020 12:35pm
Swifty

Wide-spread corruption at Wi Tako:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122719710/rimutaka-prison-staff-investigated-for-alleged-drug-smuggling-money-laundering-for-gang-members

And managers covered it up?

Will Labour screech and howl for the prison to be closed? Or Corrections to be removed as managers?
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September 10, 2020 11:55am
Maggie Pie

Heads up……Leo Molloy will be on with Shaun Plunket very soon. Well worth a listen! 😀
4 3
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September 10, 2020 12:32pm
Surely Knott

Sad to see St Johns was fundraising outside the grocery store yesterday when our govt squandered $12 Million of our money on a gift to a green school and green private property development of which the public are did not become shareholders of the company nor are the public users of the service. Meanwhile the public are expected to fund necessary services like surf lifesaving, rural firefighters, and ambulance services utilising unpaid volunteers and fundraising.
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September 10, 2020 12:57pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  If only the government cancelled that grant, then surf lifesavers and ambulances would no longer need to raise their own funds.
  
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  September 10, 2020 1:28pm
Fletch

A holy man prophesied in 1983 that Donald Trump would lead America back to God.

Tom Zimmer was a World War II veteran who moved to Loreto, Italy to live a life of prayer and sacrifice. In 1983, he told Dr. Claude Curran that ‘right now, in the United States, there’s a man who has the hand of God on him…and God is going to use him in the future…his name is Donald Trump.’

An interview with Dr Curran who was originally told this by Zimmer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBsiXN9mLS4

As always, make of it what you will, but it is interesting.
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September 10, 2020 1:07pm
- Swifty
  
  The things people will believe……
  
  Never fail to astound me.
  
  8 3
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  September 10, 2020 1:46pm
  - Fletch
    
    I am reserving judgement, but anyone else with the sort of shit Trump has to put up with thrown against them day-in and day-out would be gone by now. It’s already a miracle Trump is hanging in there.
    
    15 5
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    September 10, 2020 2:09pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      He is a Patriot, not a commie, like we have in NZ
      
      5 3
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      September 10, 2020 5:47pm
mikenmildagain

Whoops. The Trump campaign has blown most of its cash.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/07/us/politics/trump-election-campaign-fundraising.html
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September 10, 2020 1:34pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I guess the NY Times got that shit from The Atlantic – a truly reliable source
  
  6 3
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  September 10, 2020 5:46pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The campaign fundraising and spending figures are published periodically.
    
    2 5
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    September 10, 2020 6:20pm
theoldbloke

Another attack on freedom of speech.
Got this letter this morning.
From Steve Eles – Columnist…One of the sane ones!!!!

Cancel culture strikes again!
Dear Subscriber,

Today I was informed by Merania Karauria – the editor of the Manawatū Guardian (part of the NZME conglomerate) – that my weekly column will no longer be published in print or on the NZ Herald’s website.

She said she received a directive this morning from Kim Gillespie (NZ Herald/NZME) due to complaints made over the weekend. I will highlight here that Merania contacted me again stating that she is responsible for the decision making, but I know that it came from above at NZ Herald/NZME.

The complaints are in relation to a series of Twitter messages and an online article by David Farrier (see below). Note: Do not mistake him for David Farrar of Kiwiblog.

This is the second time I have been ‘deplatformed’ or ‘cancelled’ by Mr Farrier. Maybe he fancies me or something.

Mr Farrier led the online campaign to have my weekly Stuff column ‘cancelled’ because he disagreed with this article I wrote back in July.

After Stuff let me go I was fortunate to switch to the Manawatū Guardian/NZ Herald. However, Mr Farrier took exception (again!) to an article I published last month. Read my article for yourself here.

On the weekend he published this article about me. He also had a little rant on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/davidfarrier/status/1302144889954529282

PS. From the oldbloke
Kims email is [email protected]
In case you wanted to share your opinion of this attack on freedom of speech & diversity
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September 10, 2020 1:54pm
- RJ
  
  Cancel culture? No more an idiot writes an article supporting conversion therapy, perhaps for his next one he can support electric shock therapy to cure them. I’d guess you have never seen the damage that this shit does to teenagers.
  
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  September 10, 2020 3:28pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hardly an ‘attack on freedom of speech’ either. Just a paper dispensing with a columnist who has rather loopy views.
    
    3 9
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    September 10, 2020 6:19pm
JSelway

Trump knew, in advance, it was going to bad, that it was worse than the flu and that many could die but told his people not to worry, it would go away, that it was no worse than the flu.

How is the not a dereliction of duty? If Obama or Hilary had done it you’d be asking for blood (as would I). But hand-waving excuses instead.
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September 10, 2020 2:29pm
- Fletch
  
  Um, as I posted above, most of the lefties were poo-pooing the virus, too. Most of the media were criticizing Trump for stopping travel from China and claiming the regular flu was worse. Pelosi was in Chinatown on Feb 24th asking everyone to come down. Most of the leaders in New York were telling their citizens not to worry and to go about business as usual.
  
  The department’s focus on health equity required it to discourage recent arrivals from Wuhan from going into self-quarantine or avoiding large public gatherings like the Lunar New Year celebrations.
  
  “We are very clear: We wish New Yorkers a Happy Lunar New Year and we encourage people to spend time with their families and go about their celebration,” Barbot insisted.
  
  A week later, Barbot appeared at a press event promoting Lunar New Year celebrations in Chinatown.
  
  “As we gear up to celebrate the #LunarNewYear in NYC, I want to assure New Yorkers that there is no reason for anyone to change their holiday plans, avoid the subway, or certain parts of the city because of #coronavirus,” she insisted.
  
  By then there had already been over 17,000 cases of the Wuhan Virus in China with nearly 3,000 new cases in one day. For the first time, someone outside Mainland China had died of the disease.
  
  Manhattan’s Chinatown, where Barbot had appeared, is one of the densest parts of the city. The old core community where the Lunar New Year celebration is based is a maze of cramped tenements, narrow streets, tiny stores whose counters extend far into the street, and other unsafe conditions
  
  Barbot went on urging people to participate in the parade while spreading misinformation about the risk. “You won’t get it merely from riding the subways – you get it from secretions,” she even claimed.
  
  The commissioner went on with the happy talk in March.
  
  After the first coronavirus case in the city, she claimed that “disease detectives” would prevent the spread of the coronavirus and that New Yorkers were “at low risk”.
  
  “As we confront this emerging outbreak, we need to separate facts from fear, and guard against stigma and panic,” Commissioner Barbot signed off: warning that the real enemy was prejudice.
  
  “There’s no indication that being in a car, being in the subways with someone who’s potentially sick is a risk factor,” she told New Yorkers.
  
  So why the focus on Trump? He was the one that stopped travel from China and got called racist for doing it. People have very short memories…. ?
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:02pm
hullkiwi

I am writing this in a state of either exasperation or frustration after experiencing yet another dohhhhhh (to quote that modern-day philosopher, Homer Simpson) moment.

This moment came about because I made the mistake of reading a Newshub piece about the release of Labour’s Energy Policy. If what I read is indeed a summary of Labour’s Energy Policy, clearly they:
1. Have still not done any policy research, or policy formulation;
2. Will have yet more working groups after this election to determine a future energy policy.

I write this, because if what I have read is a faithful summary of their policy pledge, then all I can say is it is either infantile or puerile, because it is not a policy statement of mature adults who understand anything about the energy requirements of New Zealand.

With that, I present:
https://www.labour.org.nz/release-renewable-electricity-generation-2030

It is so poor, it is not even worth the time to write a critique of, and all that is left to say of it, is it looks like they stole it from that other vacant party the Greens.

As SCS is fond of reminding us, the Sheeple will lap this stuff up, and vote for Jacinda, but when the lights fail to work in 2030, they will have forgotten:
1. what Jacinda promised them in 2020;
2. that they voted for this garbage and instead they’ll blame the poor schmuck who is PM in 2030.
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September 10, 2020 3:11pm
- RJ
  
  Continuing to make energy more affordable for all New Zealanders .
  
  Bullshit, it’s got more expensive under labour, and that also includes the removal of discount for paying for power on time. More lies from this bunch of pathological liars
  
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  September 10, 2020 6:14pm
rangitoto

Newshub poll. I have added my vote for Donald.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2020/09/have-your-say-who-is-more-deserving-of-the-nobel-peace-prize-us-president-donald-trump-or-jacinda-ardern.html
8 3
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September 10, 2020 3:13pm
- Tall Man
  
  Seriously, for what? ardern is nothing more than a mouthpiece for an inept government.
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:52pm
Jack5

Can Stuff survive its economic illness when it prints opinion pieces such as that of one Jeph Mathias, whom Stuff says is “a New Zealand doctor and international development specialist, moved back to Christchurch from the Indian Himalayas with the advent of Covid-19.”

A sample:

The mosque killer stays in prison until “his last gasp”, said Jacinda Ardern. If anyone deserves that, surely he does. Yet we can’t lock up the bigger questions. Why did his world, my world, routinely pair “Muslim” with “terrorist”? Did pictures of men chained and humiliated in orange jumpsuits warp his brain? George W Bush went untried after his helicopter gunships killed Afghan women and children on video. Obama got a Nobel Peace prize after keeping Guantanamo open and adding killer drones. We repudiate the mosque killer, yet stood by as Blair’s soldiers killed Muslims in oil-rich Iraq. Blair is still at large, Bush too.

New Zealand, my New Zealand, self-righteously cancelled cricket with Mugabe’s Zimbabwe but happily hosted the British and Irish Lions, twice.

We desperately chase trade with China despite atrocities against Uighurs and welcome British and American tourists until their last dollar. It’s the economy, speaking power to truth.

Free speech, yes please. But, until quite recently, Mathias’s stark views, if printed at all, would have appeared in some tiny Leftist of peacenik publication.

Taxpayer money, through co-operation between Radio NZ and the print media, and through pandemic subsidies is helping push such views broadly, and they thus may be hastening Stuff’s demise.
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September 10, 2020 4:14pm
tf78

Poll on Newshub right now :

Who is more deserving of the Nobel Peace Prize –
Jacinda Ardern or
Donald Trump

Get on there now and even the odds:
42% Donald/58% Cindy
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September 10, 2020 4:33pm
- RJ
  
  Can’t think of a damn thing the head girl has done to deserve anything, but hey, previous winners have got it by going to war, being black.
  
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  September 10, 2020 6:10pm
Peter Lane

‘Tricky accounting’.

Dear Leader’s indepth analysis of National’s infrastructure bank policy.

FFS this woman is simple.
12 2
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September 10, 2020 4:56pm
- Mike
  
  I would have gone with ‘restructuring some agencies’ with no new money, but it amounts to the same thing.
  
  4 1
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  September 10, 2020 5:14pm
Nostradamus

Federal Government spending $5 billion per year on contractors as gig economy grows inside public service

Mr Wilson, 25, said the outsourcing of government work had another effect: it had left young people like himself with far less hope of ever becoming a public servant. “It’s kind of disappointing to realise that there really is no way in, aside from a tiny number of spots in the graduate program,” he said.

Hopefully Kiwlbog’s hardworking and conscientious public servant, Mikenmildagain, is available at short notice to provide urgent career advice to people like Mr Wilson! 🙂
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September 10, 2020 5:22pm
- nasska
  
  …..”with far less hope of ever becoming a public servant”…..
  
  No-one with a smidgeon of self pride would consider becoming a public servant without the intervention of a press gang!
  
  6 2
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  September 10, 2020 5:39pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    *cough*
    
    4 5
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    September 10, 2020 6:18pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I hope all the folks graduating from our Universities this year realise that they may be up Sh*t creek….
  
  No OE; no holiday jobs at the local caf/bar; no jobs.
  
  12 2
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  September 10, 2020 5:46pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Maggy:
    
    Yes – agree that 2020 graduates will be doing it tough. I’m also guessing that 2019 graduates who planned to start work this year, and thought they had a job to go to, are now left to consider their long-term career options.
    
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    September 10, 2020 6:05pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Some students should probably just go in for another year’s study.
      
      2 6
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      September 10, 2020 6:17pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        And how much will that add on to their student loan?
        How many folks work in the same field as their qualifications?
        
        8 1
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        September 10, 2020 7:58pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I’m always happy to give advice.
  A young man such as Mr Wilson could do worse than remembering W S Gilbert’s paean to rising through the ranks:
  
  When I was a lad I served a term
  As office boy to an Attorney’s firm.
  I cleaned the windows and I swept the floor,
  And I polished up the handle of the big front door.
  I polished up that handle so carefullee
  That now I am the Ruler of the Queen’s Navee!
  
  9 2
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  September 10, 2020 6:16pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Thanks Mikenmildagain – I haven’t read that paean before.
    
    I mentioned the article flippantly, and you took it in the spirit intended, but it raises some interesting questions about the role of the public service. Some of those questions specifically relate to the Australian constitutional law context, but others are relevant for New Zealand, such as: what should be the core size of a public sector and to what extent should that be supplemented through contracts-on-demand to fill specific needs.
    
    I recall that you’ve commented before on the expanding and shrinking public sector over the years, as governments come and go, but it seems to me that we haven’t really settled the basic question: how big should the public sector be, and how do you measure “big” and “too big”?
    
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    September 10, 2020 6:49pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Do not correct the Prime Minister

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300104188/unicef-nz-board-chair-says-ceo-was-not-pushed-as-she-resigns-a-week-after-child-wellbeing-report-controversy
13 2
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September 10, 2020 5:52pm
- RJ
  
  Ah well, another person lost their job because of the head girl just this time it wasn’t COVID involved.
  
  12 1
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  September 10, 2020 6:08pm
- greybeard
  
  As I see it: Maidaborn – 1, Ardern – 0.
  
  8 1
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  September 10, 2020 6:27pm
- Prince
  
  The reason given by the NZ Chairman is hilarious – straight out of the Ardern Marketing handbook.
  “We have developed a new strategy with Unicef focused around the integration of New Zealand children and global children, and we’re moving to an integrated marketing approach.
  
  “Vivien identified that she had been in the role for six years and that it probably needed a different skill set than hers and it was the right time to move into the next role.”
  
  As Maggy says, don’t go against the PM.
  If Key was the smiling assassin, is Ardern the simpering silencer ?
  
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  September 10, 2020 6:46pm
- eview
  
  “Jenkinson said Unicef NZ did not receive any complaints from government officials or Unicef International following the report’s release.”
  
  Hmm, a preemptive denial like this… actually makes me even more suspicious that they did receive a complaint. The fact is, the government has a track record for complaining about trivial things that cast them in a bad light (e.g. a derisive article on Stuff, a mocking trailer for ‘season 2 of covid’ from Magic).
  
  So the idea that the government would refrain from complaining about something of this scale and significance is kind of hard to believe. (And if they actually didn’t, then I bet they really, really wanted to.)
  
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  September 10, 2020 8:39pm
  - niggly
    
    Put it this way, there have been occasional comments from some of those in the media (letting slip) that the PM’s staffers have been in contact with them (or the “managers” above them) “querying” what they have been writing.
    
    (And what about that TV3 Newshub video of the “death stare” from one of the PM’s minders in the Pacific last year when a journo went off-script)!
    
    Why would the UN be any different, especially with the likes of Ms Clark (or Ms Simpson) still having contacts within “high places” inside the UN?
    
    Clearly it’s not what you know, but who you know!
    
    More dirty, dirty, politics, Labour style ..
    
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    September 10, 2020 9:28pm
[email protected]

According to Stuff, Jim Anderson’s widow has been experiencing problems with contractors parking their trucks on her private driveway and even taking down part of her fence. This, despite signs saying it is private property.

What rights do homeowners (or renters) have to prevent or stop this illegal activity?

I would be seriously pissed off if some company or individual parked on my property without my permission.

Could I have their vehicle towed? Could I shoot holes in it? Anyone know?
6 1
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September 10, 2020 5:55pm
- Harriet
  
  I don’t know.
  
  But what I do know with regards to damaged cars and insurance is thus — if the car were to have a screw driver rammed through both headlights — the owner would have to front up with the excess — being a few hundred dollars — or pay for new ones himself.
  
  That happens regardless the amount of times screw drivers are rammed through his head lights over the course of his working contract.
  
  And if he finishes each day around sunset — there are additional daily costs to also factor in. Largely getting home.
  
  Good luck. And good luck to him. 😎
  
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  September 10, 2020 7:37pm
Maggy Wassilieff

If Labour get back into power with Green support, then the Greens want Agriculture as one of their Ministries.
He would also be pushing for co-leader Marama Davidson to be a minister and suggested a Green MP hold the agriculture portfolio.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12363939
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September 10, 2020 6:20pm
- RJ
  
  Well, that would be the end of New Zealand as they fuck over the back bone of our economy
  
  15 1
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  September 10, 2020 6:27pm
- greybeard
  
  Surely today is not 1st April ?
  Jesus wept: this man has really lost the plot.
  
  9 1
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  September 10, 2020 6:29pm
  - Nostradamus
    
    Greybeard:
    
    You can’t lose the plot if you never had it to begin with. This is the Greens that we’re talking about after all!
    
    8 1
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    September 10, 2020 8:15pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  Tommorows green thought, james shaw as finance minister.
  
  6 1
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  September 10, 2020 8:11pm
  - RJ
    
    Well as Associate Minister of Finance he was close enough to that
    
    5 0
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    September 10, 2020 8:20pm
sooty

Just tow them. Easily fixed! But then you don’t get the headlines and your 5 minutes of fame!
How much of his estate went to the Anglican church after he helped to shaft it!
4 0
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September 10, 2020 6:27pm
- Raniera
  
  How much of his estate went to the Anglican church after he helped to shaft it!
  
  I would say absolutely none.
  
  Jim Anderton was a hardcore Roman Catholic. As I recall, he got his first marriage of many years annulled, thereby making his five children immediate “bastards”, so he could marry again.
  
  Don’t forget, he got involved in saving the Christ Church Cathedral, because, at the time of the first earthquake (4 Sep 2010), he was campaigning for the Christchurch mayoralty, not because he had some affinity with the Anglican Church – which he most definitely did not have.
  
  Obviously, he had his good points, as do we all, but basically, he was a prick of the lowest order.
  
  (As an aside, he was a staunch supporter of FPP when he was President of the Labour Party, but, funnily enough, switched to supporting MMP after he had set up The Alliance.)
  
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  September 10, 2020 7:51pm
barnacle bill

You said –
Jim Anderton was a hardcore Roman Catholic. As I recall, he got his first marriage of many years annulled, thereby making his five children immediate “bastards”, so he could marry again.

Same happened to myself after 35 years and three kids later.
They need a reason why the marriage can be dissolved, but I have not been able to find out what that was, and she will never tell me.
They have to go before a RC panel and state their case, I was also asked to go before that same panel, but I didn’t wish to give them that pleasure.

Never the less, she was granted the annulment.
They live in a strange and weird world.
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September 10, 2020 8:34pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Seems to be quite a few reasons why you can get a marriage annulled by the RC Church..
  https://d2y1pz2y630308.cloudfront.net/2232/documents/Grounds%20for%20Marriage%20Annulment%20in%20the%20Catholic%20Church.pdf
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:26pm
- Raniera
  
  I really feel for you, Bill.
  
  Fortunately for me, I’m a hardcore secular humanist – who utterly despises the Roman Catholic Church, specifically, and Religionism generally – so I was never faced with the utter farce that is ‘annulment’ (see https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/08/annulments-celebrities-catholic-church/71874694/, for a couple of high-profile examples of what I mean).
  
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  September 10, 2020 9:30pm
eview

The Labour party may not intend to take away more money from 98% of the population, but they desperately want more people to give them money for their campaign.

I tried to visit their website, and before you can even get to the home page, you are directed to a page which requests donations.

“DONATE TODAY TO KEEP NEW ZEALAND MOVING” is the heading.

Message unclear – is it forwards or backwards??
8 0
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September 10, 2020 8:51pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Not forwards, nor backward.
  
  Left, left, left is the plan. Socialist utopia awaits the ruling elite. The rest of us? Not so much.
  
  5 1
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  September 10, 2020 9:44pm
SpencerArnold

The apple quicktime trailer for “Dune” just showed up. Lots of name actors (Jason Mamoa is there so no problem convincing the future Mrs Arnold to attend). Now how much does an IMAX projector cost and where can we host it in Wellington?
3 1
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September 10, 2020 9:07pm
Fletch

Dr. Fauci says President Trump did not distort the coronavirus information they discussed…

“Often he would want to, you know, make sure that the country doesn’t get down and out about things, but I don’t recall anything that was any gross distortion in things that I spoke to him about.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIzOjaRwoyg

So, that’s that then… What else ya got?
6 4
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September 10, 2020 9:09pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Oh stop with your inconvenient facts
  //
  
  1 3
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  September 10, 2020 11:06pm
John Joseph

How many CCP spies in the Beehive at the moment?
0 0
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September 13, 2020 11:47pm

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