General Debate 11 September 2020

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Scott

If you thought that the reaction to coronavirus was getting way over the top you need look no further than Australia. The American news site “Gateway Pundit” has video of a recent incident in Australia where multiple police surround two elderly women sitting on a park bench and arrest one for the “crime” of not wearing a mask. Does anyone else find this outrageous??

Apparently the article goes on to say that Melbourne police are sending up drones to catch people who don’t wear masks or stray more than 3 miles from home.

I’ll say it again. The virus is serious. But it is not a civilisation ending apocalyptic event. It needs to be kept in perspective. Unfortunately our ruling classes do not have common sense and lack perspective and are turning our precious hard-won Western civilisation into a police state. We must not let that happen.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/09/corona-cops-australia-move-arrest-grandma-sitting-park-not-wearing-mask/
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September 11, 2020 8:00am
- Sigmund Freud
  
  Our ruling class do have sense:
  
  Tell the public to stay home or everyone will die. Let them hide under their beds and shiver with fear and vote for Jacinda.
  
  Then the elites can go biking and move house on empty streets. They can visit their mistresses.
  
  New Zealanders don’t deserve anything else.
  
  And Tova will provide cover.
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:13am
  - kowtow
    
    Yep while the Elites fiddle , certain Plebs displayed teddies and now have muzzle making parties to prove their ideological purity.
    
    The Media Pardy also prove their credentials by wearing muzzles while doing outdoor broadcasts !
    
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    September 11, 2020 8:55am
    - mark15
      
      ‘Fiddle’
      I see what you did there.
      
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      September 11, 2020 9:22am
- krazykiwi
  
  Someone posted the vid here a couple of days ago. It’s disgusting. The cops surround her, and when she asks why she’s being arrested one cop responds “for failing to give your name and address”. In other words, sitting on the park bench, in the sun is perfectly legal yet the cops bully her with threats of arrest. One cop grabs her phone from her hand as she tries, as is her right, to video the exchange.
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:14am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    No point in calling the cops.
    
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    September 13, 2020 1:11am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Sounds like we need a Mark Steyn-style AusCop Wanker of the Day. They’ve clearly been taking lessons from the British plods, and Steyn has picked up on it.
  
  The very excellent and highly funny Steynonline.com is a great place to have the absurdities of officious wanker cops highlighted using language much cleverer than I can muster.
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:18am
- kowtow
  
  The Bolt Report last night had footage of two of Andrews’ Blackshirts warning a pregnant woman who was sitting down taking a rest break during her allowed one hr of exercise that by sitting she was breaking the rules. A soldier with them had the decency to stay some distance away with his back turned .
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:27am
- thirteenstars
  
  The mandatory wearing of masks on public transport is a trial run for the post-election virus strategy.
  
  Even Ardern isn’t silly enough to put the country back into actual lockdown. Bureaucrats might be slow but they possess a certain cunning. The mask strategy is coming to NZ, and our cops will be paying close attention to how their Australian counterparts are handling this, except here it’ll be even more vicious, we not having any media to expose abuses and an opposition that for the sake of national unity endorses such measures.
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:58am
  - sooty
    
    It’s coming!
    You will wear a mask outside you house!
    She’s just warming up!
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:47am
- Chris R
  
  Scott: Outrageous? It is sinister to the point of being frightening. Today is 9/11 which is a date of infamy already. How could we have imagined only one year ago how much our world was going to change?
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:16am
- C J Southern
  
  The conclusion I reached was “I don’t have enough information to reach a valid conclusion”.
  
  1. Police don’t usually go around arresting people who are fully compliant with the law. Media DO however go around presenting misleading information to steer public opinion in order to profit from it financially.
  
  2. In my experience with police, they’re invariably polite and professional when I’m polite and cooperative. If I was argumentative, uncooperative, and non-compliant then I’d expect police to eventually escalate things and act pretty much like I saw in the video – so I think it’s far more likely that we’re being given an unbalanced report that doesn’t show the entire conflict.
  
  3. Whereas someone does have the right to video their interaction with police, I would expect that that right would not continue past the point of arrest. If it did then we’d probably get the argument “you can’t put handcuffs on me because that would violate my right to video you” – and obviously that’s not going to fly.
  
  4. If police acted unlawfully then I’m sure that enough evidence was captured here for a judge to hold them to account.
  
  Best guess here is that (a) one or both of the accused were non-compliant with the law at the time they were approached – (b) police confronted them over it – (c) they had a bad attitude about being confronted – (d) which lead to one being arrested. The fact that someone was there to record the whole thing suggests to me that there’s a good chance that the whole thing was a setup for the camera.
  
  As I say – I don’t have enough information to reach a valid conclusion, but my initial thoughts here are that we’re being lead in a direction that the media wants us to be lead in (again, sigh) because that’s what’s in their financial best interest.
  
  I encourage more critical thinking around reports like this.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:29am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    I encourage more critical thinking around reports like this
    
    (weary sigh emoticon) Good luck with that
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:51am
    - C J Southern
      
      Thanks 🙁
      
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      September 11, 2020 12:11pm
  - kowtow
    
    CJ Southern
    
    I agree more critical thinking around reports like this is required.
    
    It is plain for all to see that two grannies on a park bench is a prerequisite for five Coppers to abuse their human rights , hard fought for over the last thousand years and now so easily surrendered in the face of this Media/govt driven hysteria .
    
    And unless you’re posting from the Police College / Police National HQ’s /Fraser House ,in my turn I’d offer you advise in the form of the Neimoller poem , paraphrased.
    
    First they came for the Grannies in the park……..
    
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    September 11, 2020 10:04am
    - C J Southern
      
      But they didn’t “come for the grannies in the park”; police challenged 2 adults who were breaking the law and one or both of those adults chose to escalate the situation by refusing to supply their name and address and by arguing – culminating in their arrest. How effective do you think police would be if they walked away from every confrontation with law breakers – thus teaching people that “all you need to do to get the police off your back is remain non-compliant and argue when confronted”?
      
      If it was me on that bench then:
      
      (a) I would have been wearing a mask if was a legal requirement to wear a mask there (even though I probably would have thought it was a silly law I would have thought it through far enough to appreciate that if I didn’t wear one then I’m both consuming police resources unnecessarily and making it harder for them to enforce that law when others would say “why should I wear a mask when you didn’t make that old man on the bench wear one”)
      
      (b) If I wasn’t wearing one and was approached by police I would man-up – own it – and apologise.
      
      (c) If police wanted my name and address … I’d give them my damn name and address! It’s not a secret.
      
      And guess what – I wouldn’t be getting arrested. There’s a message there; it’s not about “being a sheep and complying with a stupid law” – it’s about realising that authorities are struggling to control a virus that’s doing a lot of damage because most people are too stupid to control it themselves. It doesn’t “violate my human rights” on any grand scale to do my little bit to help – instead of being a complete dick about it for the sole sake of being a dick about it.
      
      It’s the people on the bench here who are part of the problem – not the police; the virus is infecting around 250,000 people a day because most people are too lazy, stupid, or arrogant to follow a few simple steps for a few short weeks. People like those on the bench – people like those who seek to profit by misrepresenting the event and seeking to profit by it – and yes, even those who swallow the bait hook, line, and “stinker” are part of the problem. FFS why don’t people start behaving rationally and become part of the solution? All people are doing by behaving like dickheads is continuing to shoot themselves in the foot – and shooting a few other innocent people in the process.
      
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      September 11, 2020 12:42pm
  - ISeeRed
    
    Good little sheep.
    
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    September 11, 2020 11:14am
  - JohnStanton
    
    Absolutely with you 100% C J Southern. The content of the video is a so close to a fiction that it is beyond belief that some people (a) post it and then (b) others fall for it. If it was real and dangerous, our own media would be all over it, not just some weird American outfit called Gateway Pundit. It is all just fake media fodder for the regular doomsayers of this blog; Scott, kowtow, krazikiwi et al to feed on.
    
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    September 11, 2020 11:29am
    - kowtow
      
      ‘3. Whereas someone does have the right to video their interaction with police, I would expect that that right would not continue past the point of arrest. If it did then we’d probably get the argument “you can’t put handcuffs on me because that would violate my right to video you” – and obviously that’s not going to fly.’
      
      Why do the Cops video and record prisoner statements back in the Klink.
      
      Cos they were forced to as so many confessions were obtained willingly by the suspect who was so eager to cough. The Yellow pages did more than the walking back in the day , they got ’em talking .
      
      And as to the point of a judge sorting things out later , well how much later is acceptable, once you’ve done a few nights on a concrete bed ? There’s a reason that Habeus Corpus is such an important legal doctrine in Common law jurisdictions.
      
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      September 11, 2020 12:08pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Why do police record etc?
        
        Because documenting (using video) any interviews and/or confessions is an eminently sensible way to capture important evidence. Clear evidence that can be properly examined by all relevant parties. No smoking gun here.
        
        Bottom line here is that the folks on the bench make the decision not to mask up as required. They made the decision to be argumentative. They made the decision not to identify themselves. And thus AS A DIRECT CONSEQUENCE OF THEIR ACTIONS police continued to do their job.
        
        Media just love to mislead with material like this – but guess what? … that doesn’t fly in court. From what I’ve seen, the offenders will probably escalate it even further by complaining – the complaint will be investigated – and then most likely thrown out once ALL the evidence is examined.
        
        And I very much doubt that the offender will spend “days in a cell”; for something like this the most likely outcome is they’re released with a warning within an hour or two.
        
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        September 11, 2020 12:56pm
      - kowtow
        
        ‘for something like this the most likely outcome is they’re released with a warning within an hour or two.’
        
        That’s OK then , instead of a quiet word of warning at the time and place , five burley cops take two grannies into custody , depriving them of one of our most basic human rights, our liberty , just to make a point ,to release them an hour later.
        
        Tell ya what , the Beaks would be very unimpressed.
        
        I reckon each and every one of Peel’s principles were broken here . Would be a good one for new recruits at Police School 101 , ‘Right then , how not to do your job if you want to get the people who employ you to have any confidence in the Farce.’
        
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        September 11, 2020 1:25pm
      - C J Southern
        
        @kowtow
        
        Um, no. You start with an invalid premise and then reach an invalid conclusion because of the invalid premise;
        
        “instead of a quiet word of warning at the time and place”
        
        Seriously – how do you think the entire context of this went down? I’ll give you three scenarios – you tell me which is most likely:
        
        Scenario 1:
        
        Plod 1: “Plod 1 to control, Plod 1 to control – priority message”
        
        Control: “This is control – go ahead with your priority message Plod 1”
        
        Plod 1: “Plod 1 requesting additional 4 units attend for backup to assist with arrest of grannie on bench for not wearing a mask”
        
        Control: “This is control – additional 4 units dispatched under lights and sirens – hang in there – help is on the way – they’ll be there soon”.
        
        Scenario 2: 5 burly officers are on patrol when they spot a couple of grannies on a park bench not wearing a mask – so they practically trip over each other in the rush to arrest these heinous criminals.
        
        Scenario 3: Plod 1 approaches citizen not wearing mast on a park bench.
        
        Plod 1: “Excuse me ma’am, but to help combat COVID-19 there’s recently been a law change requiring that good folks such as yourselves wear masks in public – and I notice that you’re not wearing a mask”.
        
        Law Breaker 1: “Well I think that’s a stupid law and I’m not going to cooperate”
        
        Plod 1: “Ma’am, I’m afraid that I’m going to have to insist that you put a mask on”
        
        Law Breaker 1: “Well you and your stupid law can both go get stuffed”
        
        Plod 1: “Ok Ma’am – I’m going to issue you with a formal warning. I need your name and address so that this formal warning can be entered into police records.”
        
        Law Breaker 1: “Get stuffed – I’m not telling you anything”.
        
        Plod 1: “Ma’am – I must caution you that because you have committed an offence you are legally required to provide me with sufficient information that allows me to identify you”.
        
        Law Breaker 1: “Have you got a hearing problem sonny? I already told you that I’m not telling you nuffing”
        
        Plot 1: “Plod 1 to control – requesting backup this location”
        
        Plod 1: “Ma’am if you won’t identify yourself to me as required by law then I will place you under arrest”
        
        Law Breaker 1: “Go get stuffed – I can do what I like”
        
        Backup arrives and uncooperative law breaker is arrested.
        
        I’d bet my last dollar that the entire incident started with a polite request for them to wear masks – as required by law. By my observations, police are extremely receptive to the law of psychological reciprocity; they’ll treat you the same way that you treat them. If people aren’t going to respond to a “quiet word” and instead CHOOSE to be uncooperative and obtrusive do you seriously think police are just going to walk away muttering “oh well, we tried”? Police confront people for a living – and guess what – many of those people’s noses get out of joint because they appear to be under some strange delusion that they’re “free to ignore any law that they don’t like”.
        
        If the quiet word doesn’t work then – approximately 100.00% of the time – police will escalate the situation to the next level – and the next – and the next until people stop being dickheads. If temporarily depriving them of their liberty for a few hours is what it takes to get the message through to them then so be it. A clear line has been drawn in the sand – and it’s the job of police to ensure people don’t step over it. All I’m seeing here is someone choosing to step over the line and then complaining about the way they’re treated when they’re pulled up for it.
        
        So (a) the offender(s) would almost certainly have been given a “quiet word” to start with (b) the number of officers present – and their physique – is irrelivant (unless it’s your argument that it would of been quite OK for a single diminuitive officer to have placed them both under arrest) – (c) the fact that they’re “grannies” is also irrelivant. And (d) it was THEIR CHOICE to be deprived of their liberty because they’re the ones who chose to not only break the law, but to be argumentative and non-compliant when confronted about it by police. And that’s exactly the way it’s supposed to work; actions have consequences.
        
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        September 11, 2020 3:10pm
    - C J Southern
      
      BINGO!
      
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      September 11, 2020 12:12pm
- Greg Ettridge
  
  I live in a postcode in regional Victoria that has never had a case, zero cases.
  Regional is now below the magical 5 cases at 4.5, even with Geelong called a Regional which beggars belief, but we are still masked up and locked down.
  Melbourne is around 70.
  There is nothing health related and scientic about these stupid decisions.
  Supposed to wear a mask while fencing, they are just moronic idiots.
  The cops have just become a joke, sick joke.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:41am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Latest is the 30 year old Wuflu death announced with great fanfare has after weeks of milking it, been reclassified as a drug overdose.
    These people couldn’t lie straight in bed.
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:45am
    - kowtow
      
      And one wonders where the fanfare over that revision will come from, crickets.
      
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      September 11, 2020 10:06am
  - Ruawai
    
    The authorities have lost sight of the goal, the goal is to prevent the spread of Covid, but some rules are issued to all people everywhere without any commonsense.
    
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    September 11, 2020 12:13pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  The line has well and truly been crossed ?
  
  Full term pregnant women are also not allowed to sit down on a park bench when they need to take a breather through their mandated muzzles ?
  https://twitter.com/RobRuadh/status/1303831200264417280
  
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  September 11, 2020 11:14am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Unbelievable!! The cops are so brain dead that they can only think like robots: ‘unless you have one the four reasons you can’t leave the house’ then repeats it like a machine.
    
    This really is the end of civilisation.
    
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    September 11, 2020 12:48pm
    - C J Southern
      
      No. It’s not. It’s people escalating the problem because they think the laws don’t apply to them.
      
      On one hand one might think it’s common sense to let a pregnant woman sit on a bench – but if they allow that then two things are going to happen (1) everybody and their dog will start lying through their teeth about why the law doesn’t apply to them either – so they can sit on the bench too and (b) police’s job just got harder again when person #B says “why can’t I sit on the bench when you’ve let person #A sit on the bench” – and thus arguments arise “yes – I know she’s pregnant – but I’ve got a sprained ankle so I should be allowed to too” and on it goes. Far simpler just to have a line drawn; well done to the cop for not getting drawn into a provocative argument.
      
      They’re not going to write laws that say “you can’t sit on a park bench whilst we’re trying to control this virus … unless you’re more than 34 weeks pregnant – or are over 60 years old – or have a sprained ankle in the last week”.
      
      They put a law in place – the easiest thing all round is if people stop trying to weasle ways around it; EVERYBODY thinks that laws are only for other people. If you’re pregnant and will need to sit down then don’t go walking in the park at the moment; take one for the team FFS – be part of the solution – not someone who’s making the problem harder for everyone to solve.
      
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      September 11, 2020 1:23pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        BS. 1. If they had just left her alone, there would have been no publicity around this, so it wouldn’t become everyone’s ploy.
        
        2. Even if one believes that lockdown of the general population is a good idea, people should be able to sit outside w social distancing anyway. It’s healthy to sit outside in the fresh air. And with no mask!
        
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        September 11, 2020 2:43pm
      - JibberJabber
        
        How easily the Lemmings get conditioned to accepting that *sitting on a park bench* is now a crime.
        Politicians the world over are giggling at the Pavlovian simpletons falling over themselves to report others for *gasp* not following the abitrary nonsensical rules.
        
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        September 11, 2020 4:29pm
      - C J Southern
        
        It doesn’t need for her example be broadcast to the world for others to try the same tactic; many people are already trying all kinds of tactics … and that’s the problem.
        
        What’s the point of drawing a line in the stand if it’s not going to be enforced? And thus anyone who’s pregnant – over 60 – got a sprained ankle – feeling faint – didn’t know the law – or any number of other excuses is free to step over it with impunity?
        
        It’s no different to someone trying to argue that they should get a ticket for speeding because they used to be a race car driver.
        
        If you let 100 pregnant ladies sit on a public bench then on 10 of those occasions someone else will come along – comment that “that looks like a nice place to have a rest” – sit down too – and strike up a conversation. And if one of the 10 has the virus at the beginning of the conversation, 2 will have it by the end of it. And a virus that could have been eliminated worldwide in a month if people would just stop being idiots for a month gets to carry on some more.
        
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        September 11, 2020 6:05pm
      - C J Southern
        
        @JibberJabber – no, not people like me “being a Lemming” – it’s people like you who just seem incapable of grasping the bigger picture. And every day there’s around 250,000 of your type. 250,000 who think that what they do is OK.
        
        It’s not about “being illegal to sit on a park bench” – it’s about not giving the virus an opportunity to spread to the next host – and the next – and the next. And make no mistake about it; people are failing absolutely, totally, and completely – causing themselves and others immeasurable economic harm in the process.
        
        For every 1000 people who sit on a park bench 999 of them not leaving COVID on an armrest – or not passing it on to someone else who also sits down there at the same time – doesn’t solve the issue because that 1 in 1000 who spreads it means that everything else was in vain.
        
        It’s not about 999 being made to take precautions that it turns out weren’t needed – it’s about stopping that 1 in a thousand. Take a look at the daily infection rates and then stop to consider that each and every one represents an infection control failure.
        
        The more people who don’t understand the bigger picture who continue to think they know better the more some of those people keep the infection spreading.
        
        If the entire world would just follow the damn rules for a month and use a bit of common sense then this virus would be gone from the planet … but no – people keep on trying to cross the lines because “it’s their right” – or they’re too damn lazy – or whatever the excuse – and then we ALL suffer because of it. And I’m getting pretty damn sick of my life savings being fritted away by other people’s stupidity.
        
        People don’t have to understand the big picture – they don’t have to like the rules. What they DO need to do is realise that they’re not that smart and that everyone who comes up with the rules isn’t that stupid and just follow the damn rules; the sooner everyone does the sooner they can go back to the normal way of life. But oh no – stupidity reigns supreme.
        
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        September 11, 2020 6:30pm
      - sharont
        
        For goodness sake wake up. Read the Herald and you’ll find over obituaries for over 40 people aged over 60 who have died per week. People are not going to be obeying laws that they see are a nonsense.
        
        When Ardern announced that 88,000 people could die in NZ that was at a time when Italy had the highest mortality rate of 400 plus per million of their population. So the lie Ardern spun was that our death rate would be over 37 times that of Italy and she suckered a lot of people into believing that was true.
        
        People are not going to take any notice of laws where they see there is no good reason for them. Why should a pregnant woman not get out of the house and sit on a park bench. Give me a good reason for it. That law is an ass as is anyone who agrees with that law.
        
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        September 12, 2020 12:53am
      - sharont
        
        For goodness sake wake up. Read the Herald and you’ll find obituaries for well over 40 people aged over 60 who have died per week. People are 100s of times more likely to die of something other than Covid. That is the reality.
        
        When Ardern announced that 88,000 people could die in NZ that was at a time when Italy had the highest mortality rate of 400 plus per million of their population. So the lie Ardern spun was that our death rate would be over 37 times that of Italy and she suckered a lot of people into believing that was true.
        
        You seem to be someone who has been completely suckered in. Start thinking clearly. What kind of life can people enjoy if they are continually being locked down and not even able to sit in the sun on a park bench? What is the use of being alive in such miserable circumstances? People might as well be living in prison.
        
        People are not going to take any notice of laws where they see there is no good reason for them. Why should a pregnant woman not get out of the house and sit on a park bench? Give me a good reason for it. That law is an ass and in reality when laws degenerate to that level and become so puerile they make a mockery of the rule of law and in the end no laws will be obeyed.
        
        People are sick of this Covid business. They’ve had enough. That is being demonstrated all over the world. If people like you want to sit in a house isolated from people because you are frightened of contracting Covid then that’s up to you. The rest of us are going to get on with our lives as this government is going to find out and as Aucklanders demonstrated – and good on them I say. We’ve had the economy decimated and people put on struggle street for a few more than 20 deaths and no evidence that this virus is as contagious as they say. Fear is being used to rule and manipulate people. That much is becoming clear to a lot of people.
        
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        September 12, 2020 1:22am
Sigmund Freud

CAESAR: Coronavirus cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once.

Act II, scene 2 of Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar
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September 11, 2020 8:01am
Paulus Gnome

Hosking summarises Labours promises; ‘It’s not ever going to happen, and will cost money we don’t have’
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September 11, 2020 8:06am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Did he also comment on the affordability of National’s promises?
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:14am
  - Cinematic
    
    Heh, what chance do you give National’s policies being fully costed? You know it’s 100%
    
    The incompetents lame attempts to call out the competents is a crack up.
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:07am
    - gump
      
      To be honest – I could be persuaded that they aren’t fully costed after the economic vandalism that National inflicted during their last nine years in Government.
      
      National’s policies took us from from a net Government debt of $10 billion in 2007 to a net Government debt of almost $62 billion in 2015. Or in percentage terms – they took us from 5% debt to GDP to over 25% debt to GDP.
      
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      September 11, 2020 12:38pm
      - Batman
        
        “National’s policies”
        
        Yeah ok sure, what a load of disingenuous crap.
        
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        September 11, 2020 1:03pm
      - gump
        
        @Batman
        
        Yes. “National’s policies”
        
        Cutting taxes and maintaining spending levels is a policy. A policy which creates inter-generational debt.
        
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        September 11, 2020 10:39pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Labour
  Promising …something for nothing
  yet
  delivering….nothing for something (a lot of something [called tax])
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:13am
G152

Remember the Twin Towers today.
Get in first
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September 11, 2020 8:09am
- Biscuit
  
  Had to Google that, G152.
  
  No idea what I was doing 19 years ago but whatever it was it caused me to miss this story!
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:34am
- igm
  
  Hell, we cannot mention that, it may offend Ardern’s friends.
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:46am
  - oldfella
    
    When the towers came down, don’t think many people in the US donned Muslim headgear and said ‘They are us’.
    And this is an interesting Spiked Online story re Muslim terror attacks. Seems the BBC buckled when UK Muslims found a headline about the Manchester bomber offensive (even though it was true) and changed it…
    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/09/10/is-reporting-the-news-islamophobic-now/
    
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    September 11, 2020 10:49am
    - MCos
      
      I don’t think too many Australians claimed Tarrant was one of them.
      
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      September 11, 2020 3:09pm
  - sooty
    
    That’s right. They had hijacked both planes!
    
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    September 11, 2020 11:51am
- Nickc2
  
  Tomorrow (US Time).
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:50am
- alex Masterley
  
  I turned on the TV at about the time Holmes cut to New York for a live report. I watched the second jet hit the second tower. I will never forget that sight as I couldnt believe what i had just seen.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:16am
  - Random T Person
    
    I was in a newsroom (CRNSA/Computerweek) in South Africa at the time. Completely freaky, weirdest sensation ever watching CNN live and a freakin jumbo ploughing into a building…
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:30am
    - Swifty
      
      Yeah, I watched the CNN feed as the second plane hit – went and woke up the boss.
      
      I distinctly remember watching and listening to the CNN guy talking about the first plane hitting and seeing the smoke billow out of the Trade Centre and then watching the second plane come in and hit too.
      
      Unreal.
      
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      September 11, 2020 10:06am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Sometimes, alex, your gut feeling is more accurate than anything you are told afterwards.
    
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    September 11, 2020 10:18am
  - MCos
    
    The planes hit WTC at about 1am NZ time tonight.
    That’s about 8pm in Bangkok where I was watching TV. Nobody else in the house was particularly concerned. They had local upheavals going on on a daily basis to concern them.
    As I watched I knew enough about the properties of structural steel to realize there would be a catastrophic failure caused by the heat.
    Sure enough . . .
    
    Some run of the mill engineer with a vivid imagination made millions by dreaming up a bullshit theory that the Govt had blown up the buildings. He made a YouTube video that conspiracy theorists lapped up & followed up with a speaking tour.
    
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    September 11, 2020 11:55am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Ah, I remember 9/11 – the Coronavirus of the 2000s. Another epochal and society changing event.
  
  PS: Why did Muslim extremism effectively cease at about the same time Trump became President?
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:52am
- Pharmachick
  
  I remember turning on the TV and being utterly bewildered as to why there was a movie playing, on all 3 channels (really, it took at least 30 seconds to sink in).
  
  Also, I had just a signed contract in August to start as a Post Doc in January 2002 in the USA.
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:30am
- RRM
  
  Hard to believe it’s nearly been 20 years, in my mind 9/11 still a recent world event.
  
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  September 11, 2020 11:00am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Yes. But will the War on Terror still be going in another 20 years?
    
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    September 11, 2020 2:13pm
Yvette

Health Minister says ‘deliberate and malicious spreading of misinformation’ will slow NZ’s return to Level 1
The Health Minister today slammed “organised campaigns” spreading Covid-19 misinformation, as another two cases were linked to a Mt Roskill church – 1 News

While the article hints that the “mis-information” is of a religious nature or conspiratory, or both, the item neither says what the Minister will do to counter such a problem other than suggest Auckland may remain longer at a higher level than it needs to.
Where is Ardern, the Great Communicator?
What an absolutely fucking abysmal response.

In what way will Government “re-educate” anyone that their apparent personal convictions need to change to accommodate what is happening throughout the world?
Elderly medically-compromised populations are dying.
Why complicate something that seems relatively simple?

If “ignorance” is a reason to postpone Auckland’s covid Level, from the now “2.5” to another, what is being done to counter the “organised campaigns spreading Covid-19 misinformation” and will any delay not just exacerbate the problem?

If waiting for a vaccine is one solution, are we going to have to wait for some people to become a little more intelligent? It could take a while.

But what fills me with some forbode is that almost everything this Government has touched – kiwibuild, light rail, planting some trees – were simple concepts to start with, then became extremely complicated: for example light rail, which ended up with three solutions to a vaguely defined aim (Airport transport, or servicing suburbs along the way), no actual mode of transport decided, no route, no defined funding and no future.
Is this Government now starting to apply obfuscation – their modus operandi – to covid?
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September 11, 2020 8:10am
- kwkiwigirl
  
  Great communicator ducking for cover now. As per usual. If it had been anyone but this Pacifica church that did this Ardern and Hipkins would be hanging them out to dry. Now the whole of Auckland, because of these idiots, will stay in lockdown. A few more thousand jobs down the drain.
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:38am
  - Nickc2
    
    Agree, send them the bill for Auckland’s lost revenue due to their actions.
    They wont though, Cindy and Goff need their votes.
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:15am
  - Scott
    
    Genuine question Kiwi girl – what is it that the Mt Roskill church actually did? The TV3 news report last night was very vague, something about spreading American conspiracy theories about the virus?
    It didn’t talk about anything that the church actually did wrong regarding social distancing or anything else. So I would like to know what are the specific charges against the church?
    
    Otherwise it does seem to be a case of – virus response not going well? Blame the Christians!
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:35am
    - kowtow
      
      There was a distinct anti American tone in yesterday’s media reports along the lines of “American style church” .
      
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      September 11, 2020 10:07am
    - Nukuleka
      
      RNZ news yesterday placed two items next to each other in a blatant display of propaganda. They led the broadcast with comments from a Massey Uni bloke about the church being influenced by right wing conspiracy theorists from the US. And then followed this with a report of Biden criticizing Trump’s Corona virus response. A deliberate attempt to conflate the Mt Roskill church with Trump. It’s all so boringly predictable. Of course they totally ignore what Biden and his fellow Democrats said about the virus back in February- that is was a minor flu like problem that wouldn’t impact the US.
      
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      September 11, 2020 10:13am
    - Jimmy White
      
      There, we have a use for the white elephant Eden Park. How many lions does the Zoo have?
      
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      September 11, 2020 10:14am
    - Close Hen Counters
      
      I am unsure about the evangelistic version they have of covid, but one of the pricks who attends the church was a close contact of another positive case, got tested, was told to be in quarantine until the test came back … he/she clearly didn’t understand the instructions and didn’t self isolate thus infecting more people – and the unbelievable bullshit from the government and media about being kind and compassionate towards these people …. they have compromised our civil liberties, ruined the school year for thousands of students, people have lost their jobs because of their utter selfishness and ignorance. FFS
      
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      September 11, 2020 11:00am
    - Ruawai
      
      The church is allowed free speech although Goff this morning on RNZ implied they should be fined for using their right to free speech. Amazing from someone who protested against the Vietnam war.
      
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      September 11, 2020 12:18pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Yes he did. Wait for it: he won’t dare take on a PI church but will attack any Kiwibloggers who don’t fully toe the govt line on covid, ‘pour encourager les autres.’
        
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        September 11, 2020 1:00pm
      - peterwn
        
        Yes, following right in the footsteps of former Mayor Gunson who together with Granny Herald persuaded the Government to put Catholic Archbishop Liston on trial for sedition. The Archbishop was acquitted.
        
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        September 11, 2020 3:42pm
  - peterwn
    
    Seems like Labour is desperately trying to grab defeat from the jaws of victory
    
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    September 11, 2020 10:49am
- Brian Marshall
  
  If anyone has been spread misinformation about the Covid, it’s the government in its announcements.
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:54am
  - C J Southern
    
    The government hates competition …
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:35am
  - Rich Prick
    
    The latest ads imploring us to “unite against Covid-19” contain no public health information whatsoever. Will they be included in Labour’s election expenses return?
    
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    September 11, 2020 11:38am
- tf78
  
  Yvette – you can now see why they don’t want people educated.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:00am
- artemisia
  
  The Ihumatao housing development was a very simple concept, build lots of homes, and all set to go.
  
  Until the government stepped in.
  
  Stupid is as stupid does.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:04am
  - mark15
    
    Put this lot in charge of a desert…
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:25am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I hope all the Cabinet are sued over this. Ihuamato is still a festering sore. Even the Police have turned into Cheshire Cats compliant to their mistress.
    
    The rule of law has been suspended during the reign of Ardern R. I.
    
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    September 11, 2020 10:25am
- RW Capitalist
  
  or translated
  If you don’t eat your meat…you can’t have any pudding.
  How can you have any pudding, if you don’t eat your meat.
  There Pink Floyd said it better.
  Chris Hipkins threatening us again…pathetic, isn’t he.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:17am
- Honorary Kiwi
  
  Yvette the problem with these guys reading a script rather than simply having a grasp of the facts and extemporising is you do not stop to think about the inheritant contradictions of what you are saying. This church community has denied unto itself the science of Covid 19 which is like (you know all the stuff which is sensible) broken the rules and created a third sub set.
  
  Blaming some amorphous groupings of organised campaigns for why this has happened when you have admitted they own their own misinformation is incoherant nonsense.
  
  As I said yesterday Hipkins was into misinformation big time with thousands of deaths tens of thousands deaths saved by Level 4. Multiple chains of enquiry lead you to excess deaths of 500 over flu. CF Victoria fiasco uncontrolled run away deaths with lockdown 701. Population 6,000,000.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:20am
- Komata
  
  Yvette@081
  
  Re: ‘…Deliberate and malicious spreading of misinformation’ will slow NZ’s return to Level 1’.
  
  Perhaps I’m wrong, but that sounds like a very deliberate threat (aka ‘Blackmail’), and given Dear Leader’s propensity to do the same, makes me wonder what ‘excuse / s’ will be used to impose further ‘controls’ (‘For the good of our health’ of course).
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:31am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    We can fix this next month.
    Don’t let any of the present Lockdowners near gobblement again.
    ☑️☑️We will return☑️☑️
    
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    September 11, 2020 10:28am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Alas. I don’t think National will have a libertarian POV on covid. Collins has already said that if health advice was pro compulsory mask wearing, National would support that.
      
      I’m still voting National (maybe party vote Act) for other reasons, but National is not standing up for liberty.
      
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      September 11, 2020 1:06pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        It hard for our MP’s with all the dog whistling going on about COVID. Most wouldn’t feel up to challenging those calling themselves experts. It’s taken till now for it to become plain to us amateur statisticians the numbers are political not reliable. The ones we had for the Diamond Princess have largely been close to global outcomes. In short only two cohorts are at serious risk–the very elderly and the 10-20 year olds. Some outliers are at risk anyway from other causes. Another flue variant to deal with from season to season. Elimination is best confined to the closet.
        That does not justify the massive lockdowns or their continuance. It will be a brave MP who will stick their neck out v. the MoH who is probably parroting the WHO line.
        
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        September 11, 2020 4:11pm
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  The Government spread Coronavirus misinformation on a daily basis. Every time they open their mouths.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:54am
  - JohnStanton
    
    Absolute nonsense.
    
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    September 11, 2020 11:37am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      I know. It is. Who actually believes the conflicting shit these people promulgate?
      
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      September 11, 2020 12:09pm
- hullkiwi
  
  Yvette, the other mouth piece, and Auckland Mayor has spoken.
  
  Your scepticism is a failing of your intellect.
  
  I hope you now feel duly insulted, so there!
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:36am
rouppe

Unlikely to move to level 1 due to the Auckland sub clusters.

Quite why the rest of the country needs to be held in lockdown is a mystery.

Unless… We are never to have our freedoms back. What’s that called again?
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September 11, 2020 8:13am
- Cantabrian
  
  Don’t panic. All restrictions will be lifted on 18 Oct if Labour wins.
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:34am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    It is more likely they will be-ramped up because they would have another 3 years.
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:55am
    - JohnStanton
      
      Even more unsubstantiated nonsense. The restrictions will only ever be ramped up if we have further clusters, never because someone has been re-elected
      
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      September 11, 2020 11:39am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Do you know what a false pretext is John?
        
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        September 11, 2020 12:10pm
      - Grant
        
        Thank you John. That will be all for now.
        G
        
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        September 11, 2020 1:36pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Don’t you believe it. Ardern is a scary commie chick with only one task to take NZ her way into the despondent former soviet style command economy.
        She has already rubbished housing so the State will become the main supplier (if they ever learn how to build). Taranaki has been cancelled because it is against State Policy. Electricity is to be rationed to sunshine hours. Greens will own cows.
        Everything I have seen from Ardern R. to date has been consistent with ignorance and a pig headed drive to regain her former party-chief status. Now Robbo has the keys to the Reserve Bank’s vaults money is freely available to be dreamed away. Forget repaying, that’s only for the economic dumb now modern money theory applies. Our young may not be constrained by debt at all but from rampant inflation and lack of hope.
        NZ not my Way
        The other way ☑️☑️
        
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        September 11, 2020 4:28pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Expect a double dose then to teach us to better mannered.
    NZ can’t afford a second run of the COL.
    
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    September 11, 2020 10:29am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Sheeple are not even bothered about lock down levels. They are happy to oblige whatever Cindy says. Why do you even bother?
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:52am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Some of us will never capitulate to the mindless Ard One or to her communist takeover.
    Go and have a cheese roll.
    
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    September 11, 2020 10:31am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Remember she went….and saved 80,000 lives!!
    
    Be grateful, and repeat….”Jacinda is the saviour of NZ”, wash and then repeat…until you cast your vote for Jacinda….
    
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    September 11, 2020 10:39am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Tyranny
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:31am
- Komata
  
  rouppe@0813
  
  ‘Communism’ may be the word you’re looking for…
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:32am
Loddenthinks

What a treasure Massey University senior lecturer Dr Steve Elers is turning out to be. Predictable outrage has ensued when a large US company called its product Kiwi Botanicals and made the egregious error of not following “prescribed” spelling and usage of the maori language.

Asked for comment, Dr Elers popped their little balloon of outrage, denied cultural appropriation had taken place, and put the little te reo sheriffs back in their box. Somehwere along the line he’s taken the red pill and discourse is all the better for it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122695687/procter–gamble-under-fire-for-misuse-of-te-reo-mori-in-us
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September 11, 2020 8:13am
- krazykiwi
  
  I love it when infantile, bottom-of-the-world cultural fascists get all uppity… thinking their proclivities carry any weight on the world stage. It’s a delicious display of naivety.
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:18am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  But he has transgressed….
  
  and NZ Herald has dumped him
  https://webworm.substack.com/p/cancel-culture-vs-doing-a-bad-job
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:21am
  - Durden
    
    When Maori stop going to “yoga” classes and stop eating “curries” and start defending the cultural misappropriation of Indian culture I might pay attention to their witterings.
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:09am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    What a cock that David Farrier is. I loved how Steve Elers had to point out to his readers that Farrier wasn’t to be confused with David Farrar. Most people wouldn’t have heard of Farrier, who’s a genuine weirdo, so it was definitely worth pointing out.
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:13am
    - niggly
      
      Elers’ writing style appears to be with a pinch of dry humor – perhaps uptight cry-babies like Farrier can’t see that.
      
      Anyway talking of HYPOCRISY – this David Farrier is the guy who had no issues mocking (that idiot) Colin Craig, by doing the sauna “strip tease” interview with him.
      
      Funny isn’t it that wet petals like Farrier can mock whomever he wants but as soon as someone else mocks people near the top of the “victimhood” pyramid then all hell breaks lose.
      
      I’ve lost respect for Farrier – what a prat!
      
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      September 11, 2020 9:50am
  - Jack5
    
    Farrier and Elers seem at odds on gender and sexual orientation issues:
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10822916
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:31am
  - niggly
    
    OMG I just read Farrier’s “weekend piece” (the prelude to your linked article).
    
    Both articles demonstrates his lack of critical thinking, prejudices, tendency to exaggerate and mislead.
    
    For example in his recent article he writes about Elers writing “Maybe he fancies me or something” so in response Farrier calls that “casual homophobia”.
    
    But wait look what Farrier wrote in his first article, he said of Elers, “Just briefly — fuck him”! So by Farrier’s own definition of casual homophobia he employed casual homophobia himself!
    
    To make matters worse Elers was trying to be humorous in his response to Farrier deadly serious “fuck him” (casual homophobic) comment!
    
    The other thing is Farrier is deflecting/ignoring Youth MP Shaneel Lal absurd claims which Elers was questioning. In Elers’ context Lal’s claims were over the top (which they are in a NZ context, which is what Elers’ perspective was). Farrier defends Lal by using examples from overseas … sure I agree that is a problem (overseas) and needs to be stopped, but that’s not where Elers was coming from.
    
    It’s a pity Farrier couldn’t use his platform and wind back his outrage to have a meaningful debate on gay conversion therapy overseas v NZ to make everyone/all sides have better understanding of what is actually going on (and perhaps acknowledge that activists like Lal is NOT helping their cause by being an overly dramatic and “misleading” about his statements. It would have made for good reading in terms of an exchange between the two gentlemen.
    
    Mind you, what does one expect from a couple of “drama queens” who get off from de platforming people!
    
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    September 11, 2020 10:24am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Exactly, and to prove Farrier’s stupidity he referred to it as “gay conversation therapy throughout his rant.
      
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      September 11, 2020 1:22pm
- thetiedarch
  
  Stuff cant even spell Maori correctly in it’s own hyperlink……….
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:41am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Not the first time I’ve seen that. It’s also misappropriation if Latin, ‘mori’ being the root of ‘mortal’. Are they subliminally conceding that ‘te reo mori’ (Maori language is dead)?
    
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    September 11, 2020 10:00am
  - Swifty
    
    No, it’s not that, it’s because of the macron over the ‘a’ – hyperlinks can’t handle them.
    
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    September 11, 2020 10:08am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    And you can’t use apostrophes correctly…
    Muphry’s Law: “If you write anything criticizing editing or proofreading, there will be a fault of some kind in what you have written.”
    
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    September 11, 2020 11:01am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      So true mike. But tell us: what is Muphry’s Law? ?
      
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      September 11, 2020 11:46am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It is what was written above.
        
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        September 11, 2020 11:53am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        We all make mistakes, so I forgive you. But mistakes made when correcting someone else’s mistakes are especially priceless. I guess it’s my sense of Schadenfreude. Just try harder next time??.
        
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        September 11, 2020 12:13pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        To clarify, it is Muphry’s Law:
        https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eponymous_laws#Muphry.27s_law
        
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        September 11, 2020 2:16pm
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Milky, a little comment typed on a phone does not get the same editing or scrutiny as an msm article.
      
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      September 11, 2020 1:17pm
- Brian Marshall
  
  Common sense. Sadly common sense seems so much less common than years ago.
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:44am
- Centrist
  
  The funny thing is that none of these “experts” noticed that P & G got the words principal and principle confused.
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:53am
  - amospicton
    
    Which is culturally offensive.
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:11am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Good point.
    
    Or the fact that maori haven’t actually been producing manuka honey in their beehives for 2,000 years. It’s called puffery and most people have w ee chuckle and move on.
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:15am
    - Evadne
      
      English missionaries brought the honey bee to NZ in the 1830s.
      
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      September 11, 2020 9:37am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        That’s interesting. I knew we had native bees, but didn’t realise they did not produce honey.
        
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        September 11, 2020 11:06am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Our native bees are solitary beasts…
        You’d be hard pressed to distinguish them from small black flies.
        https://www.fortheloveofbees.co.nz/native-bees
        
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        September 11, 2020 5:16pm
- JohnStanton
  
  Dr Elers is a breath of fresh air
  
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  September 11, 2020 11:48am
- Classic Liberal
  
  “harvested by the principle Māoris of the South Island”
  
  Lol, nobody in the article even comments on the *principal* spelling error in the sentence. Msm spelling and grammar have become a joke.
  
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  September 11, 2020 1:13pm
Durden

David Steadson being a typical Ozzie whining Cassandra about Sweden and says “The Swedish strategy is not a success; it is a failure.” :
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12364015

A bleeding heart lefty liberal from way way back it seems. Here is him complaining about the Tampa refugees event along with a whole bunch of whingers about 20 years ago.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/last-post-20010829-gdhui4.html

(search for his name halfway through page)

In hindsight, John Howard’s Aussie response to illegal refugees was the correct one. It stopped attempts dead in its tracks. But they continue to accept refugees through proper channels. In the same way, Steadson will be proved to be wrong about Sweden in the long run.

Maybe Aussies should send Steadson to Christmas Islands for permanent quarantine 🙂

On a side note, after visiting Norway and seeing and hearing about their “activism export” industry activities, I was not surprised that Tampa was a Norwegian freighter.

Our friend above is both Aussie and with strong Norwegian influences. Norwegians seem to have a moral and ethical superiority complex and a smug arrogance that they are the world’s most enlightened in the world. Wanting to influence the world through influence in the UN, Israel peace talks, indigenous peoples’ rights, Nobel Peace Prize etc.

They are an international states’ equivalent of the Remuera and Karori housewife greenies. Speaking from the smugness of wealth and riches created by their oil reserves, arms exports. Smugness and virtue signalling, that our own Cindy is trying to emulate. Wonder if the Norwegians will have Cindy as their PM and may be she can go there and stop all oil and gas and armament export activities:)

Although after Christchurch, we have one blot in common with Norway — Utøya .

Norway’s influence at the UN.
https://www.norway.no/en/missions/un/norway-and-the-un/norways-rich-history-at-the-un/

Norway’s dirty secrets.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/last-post-20010829-gdhui4.html
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September 11, 2020 8:15am
- IC5000
  
  > Swedish strategy is not a success; it is a failure
  
  Excellent read. Reinforces what many normal people thought about the Swedish response. It’s clear that nut jobs will not be pleased.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:11am
  - Honorary Kiwi
    
    Just for some variety the facts.
    
    Sweden’s strategy was from the beginning to be judged over two years. The full cycle of the Virus outcome. Some deaths early on will lead to less deaths of the vulnerable and frail later. The soon to die category.
    
    It was set by the health directorate taking all aspects of health into consideration including trying to maintain the nourishing elements of life as much as possible to avoid mental health issues and the like.
    
    Anders Tegnell has apologised for not doing enough tactically in the first 30 days to protect nursing homes. 65% of deaths are plus 80.
    
    Case numbers have been steady for many weeks with 170 a day typically. 13 are described by Worldometer as critical or serious all the rest are mild.
    
    Deaths are on a seven moving average 1 and have been a moving average of 3 for sometime now.
    
    Input to the economy (not output) is 40% pro rata more in NZ to a GDP of 20% per head less. Thats roughly 10,000,000,000 probably a bit more now. Most importantly Sweden are living with C19 and taking ownership as individuals to do the right thing and are not locked up in a hysteria of over reaction. It’s serious its important and C19 and its effects should be treated with respect but its not a reason to stop the world.
    
    In a typical year Sweden losses 2,000 to influenza so their multiple is 1 to 3 at the moment.
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:48am
    - IC5000
      
      > In a typical year Sweden losses 2,000 to influenza so their multiple is 1 to 3 at the moment.
      
      Isn’t covid basically the same as the flu? If this is true then why is the death toll three times higher?
      
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      September 11, 2020 10:46am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Clearly you don’t know how averages work.
        
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        September 11, 2020 11:55am
  - Crazy Ivan
    
    >Reinforces what many normal people thought about the Swedish response
    >It’s clear that nut jobs will not be pleased
    Doesn’t realise they‘re the nut job
    
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    September 11, 2020 11:01am
- Cinematic
  
  I started out genuinely interested in the Aussies take on Sweden but couldn’t make it through the first paragraph.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:12am
  - IC5000
    
    That’s a pity. Obviously we can disregard your opinion then
    
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    September 11, 2020 12:35pm
Tony Stuart

Labour Deputy Leader Kelvin Davis is sometimes referred to as The Invisible Man. He’s certainly not visible on Labour party vote hoardings. But this story from RNZ may explain his most recent disappearing act:

Lies, damn lies and CCTV
I don’t say this lightly but did the Kelvin Davis lie to us? Or did his staff lie to him?

Based on information released under the Official Information Act to RNZ we have learned that some of the data we asked for from the minister that he told us did not exist, did.

We were asking for any data – even a sample – of how long people in prison were being locked up in their cells for during the Covid-19 alert levels 3 and 4.

The minister assured us he was happy with what Corrections was doing and said they could not give us any data because neither he nor Corrections had it.

We were further assured that if people were worried, there were complaints processes available to them.

What we now know is not only did Corrections have some of this data, but they were concerned that journalists and groups like ours were asking because some of the data validated our concerns.

On 22 April, an email was sent to key leaders within Corrections, including National Commissioner Rachel Leota, included a table breaking down each prison’s lock-up periods longer than 22 hours since alert level 4.

Despite this, we received a letter from Minister Davis on 28 May that said that Corrections did not centrally collate this information and “for this reason, neither Corrections nor my office holds the information you have requested, and your request is not one that I can fulfil at this time”. This was a lie so either he knew it – or his officials lied to him.

Based on what we know now, I tend to think the minister is willingly leaving himself out of the information chain. Here we are again, requesting a copy of the report that the minister himself ordered into lockdown hours in his prisons as a result of us and others asking questions.

The response we got? The minister never received a copy. Just a briefing. He is unable to release a copy of the report into whether his prisons were breaking domestic and international law because he never got a copy himself.

“In reviewing your request I have found that the information you have requested (the national review) has not been provided to the minister’s office and therefore cannot be provided to you under the OIA.”

Despite not reading the report, Davis told us was he was assured that nationally, 96 percent of prisoners had their entitlements in the one-week period that they’ve sampled.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/425725/time-for-pm-to-step-in-over-minister-s-handling-of-prison-concerns

Davis is an embarrassment as Corrections Minister, and it seems that his officials have the same view. Is it any wonder that he is kept in hiding?

And let’s not get started on the allegations of widespread corruption at Remutaka Prison, where a number of staff have suddenly resigned as an investigation is undertaken.
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September 11, 2020 8:21am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Tony. it’s still called Rimutaka Prison. Just to confuse us, the stupid new spelling only applies to the hill and the road over it.
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:28am
- Clyde
  
  Davis is a waste of space. A token person not trusted enough to actually say or do anything of substance. All he has to do every now and again is to go onto a marae and ramble. Rest of the time, smile at Jacinda, stand alongside her and keep the mouth shut.
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:48am
  - sooty
    
    The black tracker does that too!
    
    1 1
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    September 11, 2020 2:09pm
- Jimmy White
  
  The ‘Gang of Nine’s response:
  We can’t comment as it’s an active investigation
  Then
  We can’t comment because its before the court
  Then
  We can’t comment because the accused have not used all their appeal provisions
  Then
  The case is closed we refer you to the Minister
  The Minister
  I can’t comment it is an operational matter
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:17am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    So at which of those stages do you think Ministers should be commenting?
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:55am
Maggie Pie

I happened to overhear my partner on his phone last night telling someone that he reckoned…” James Shaw could be a real dangerous bast*rd.”

Never let on I’d heard, but to me Jame’s has always come across as a bit of a wuss.

Just saying.
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September 11, 2020 8:21am
I remember when

Diana Rigg dies aged 82.
Thank goodness for ‘Jones’.
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September 11, 2020 8:25am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Along with many, I suspect, I had a massive crush on Ms Rigg in my youth; that leather cat-suit!
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:33am
  - Biscuit
    
    Ditto, Tony.
    
    You seem, like me, to be ‘of an age’.
    
    I remember back then that the subject of discussion amongst us college kids in the quad was a) what had happened on Coro the previous night (just one channel back then. And in black-and-white) and what each of us would do with Ms Rigg from ‘THe Avengers’ if we were, in our dreams, given half the chance.
    
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    September 11, 2020 8:38am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Indeed I’m “of age”, and I recently received a Gold Card to prove it 😀
      
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      September 11, 2020 9:01am
- Prince
  
  Mrs Peel, we’re needed.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wN3McOihHs
  
  (whatever happened to Mr Peel ?)
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:33am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    Mr Peel was lost in a Central or South American jungle… but he came back eventually and Emma returned to her husband breaking Steads heart….
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:58am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Goodbye Emma Peel
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wamD6FwyNQ
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:38am
  - Inandout
    
    ‘The original ‘Avengers’ was a very clever and classy series, but is full of lines that are waiting to cause offence to some one. I have kept the DVD sets of shows that will ’cause offence’, and suddenly disappear from streaming services.
    
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    September 11, 2020 8:51am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Not really a fan of ‘Avengers’ but I did like the Bond movie starring her and George Lazenby. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service. Hot bit of crumpet
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:42am
JibberJabber

Todays 1pm Covid update …er Leaked,
https://twitter.com/superskrong/status/1303361227259863045
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September 11, 2020 8:45am
- Jimmy White
  
  In the 16th. Century people kept their farts in a jar and if they felt ill open and smelt the jar. Maybe he is helping the world defeat this pandemic
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:21am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Reminds me of what we used to say to each other at primary school, ” you think you’re hot shit but you’re just a warm fart in a cold jar”. ?
    Kinda like this govt.
    
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    September 11, 2020 9:58am
  - Inandout
    
    JW, sort of like message in a bottle?
    
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    September 11, 2020 10:00am
Rusty

What happened to that Aussie “We are not going to stand for this” attitude gone?

How 6 million Victorians could allow a meat head like Andrews to be charge and not say anything is a mystery.

He is responsible for these on going community virus outbreaks and tragic deaths because he hired his unionist buddies to be security in those quarantine hotels who were incompetent.

Is Aust sky news and reporters like Andrew Bolt the only people in the media over there prepared to expose Andrews?
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September 11, 2020 8:45am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  No there are a couple of really brave Journalists, the two woman, one from Herald Sun and the other from the Australian give Dandemic real grief everyday, but he has not answering any questions down to a tee.
  They are saying there state treasurer may try to oust him in next few weeks, this is disputed of course, but we can live in hope.
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:48am
- ex-golfer
  
  Victoria has always considered itself the most progressive and liberal part of Australia, run by the Unions and controlled by a corrupt police.
  Its no wonder the people have all bowed to Dictator Dans commands.
  
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  September 11, 2020 12:09pm
david

Has anyone calculated how much CO2 is being released into the atmosphere by the current bushfires in US West Coast and how does this compare with man-made sources?
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September 11, 2020 8:49am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  After a fire, trees grow back and take CO2 from the atmosphere to do so. Without a fire, trees eventually die and rot and release CO2 anyway. In the long term, forests make no difference. And the long term is all we really care about with carbon emissions. Only keeping fossil fuels in the ground vs burning them makes a long term difference, and then only if it’s realistic to assume they will stay in the ground forever.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:36am
- cmm
  
  Yup.
  
  If the bushfires had not burned the plant would have eventually fallen to the ground and rotted – releasing methane and CO2 and the methane would have turned into CO2 so that it can feed more plants.
  
  Same deal with just about anything including cows. They eat the grass and burp/fart out CO2 which gets turned back into grass.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:44am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Ask Greta – the expert
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:45am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  I just did some quick calculations on a napkin. The answer I got was “shit loads!”
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:06am
- All_on_Red
  
  Here’s some Data from the US Dept of Agriculture Fire Service.
  If you look at figure 16-1 you can see that from 1916 that the amount of acreage being burnt has decreased significantly
  https://web.archive.org/web/20140913135647/http://www.fs.fed.us/research/sustain/criteria-indicators/indicators/indicator-316.php
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:17am
greenfinger

This latest episode of the pandemic is all Ardern’s and her crew’s doing. She failed to marshall her troops at the border. Someone clearly did not get the memo. So much for her communication degree. Now all of us have to the price, and believe you me, it won’t be just the “rich pricks” that will pay for this after the election. Many labour voters will lose their livelihoods.
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September 11, 2020 8:52am
- Jimmy White
  
  Deflect the Blame, Cindy 101
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:22am
- kowtow
  
  Labour parties the west over have abandoned the old cloth cap working classes . They’ve “embraced” identity politics bigly .
  
  While I hate the idea of people losing their jobs an awful lot of these will be Labour/Green apparatchiks.
  
  ‘The loss of millions of dollars in fees from foreign students means hundreds of jobs are at risk in the country’s schools, universities and polytechnics.’
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/education-sector-facing-widespread-job-losses
  
  What needs to be done is protect the elderly and sick but let’s get back to normal . Quickly, and that includes opening the borders.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:42am
  - sooty
    
    Drain the swamp.
    
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    September 11, 2020 2:03pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Communications is only about getting a message through. It has nothing to do about the execution or content of the message. Computers do it all day long.
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:42am
- Ruawai
  
  Goff said on RNZ this morning it is so important for bus drivers to wear masks, but what about all the airport to isolation bus drivers that were not wearing masks a months or so ago??
  
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  September 11, 2020 12:33pm
  - sooty
    
    Get with the narrative!
    Masks are good like thousand dollar shoes for scooping up oil on the beach!
    
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    September 11, 2020 2:02pm
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

Another day, another few points increase for Labour, another few points drop for National…Another nail in the coffin for National. Where is the poll boost that even a dud like Mullet Muller could provide? Nothing after Judith taking over the leadership.
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September 11, 2020 8:55am
Maggie Pie

And i see the BBC reporting, that as from this Monday the UK will be introducing a new ban on Social Gatherings, limiting them to no more than six people.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhkHUplWkAMjKXA?format=jpg&name=small
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September 11, 2020 8:56am
- Jimmy White
  
  From the Daily Mail, pinch of Salt please. A family of eight have been told that they are not allowed to go out in Public as a group.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:24am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    One of them wont be Happy.
    😀
    
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    September 11, 2020 11:04am
    - sooty
      
      One of them could even be Grumpy!
      
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      September 11, 2020 1:58pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        My money is on Sneezy staying indoors.
        
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        September 12, 2020 12:05am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Why? Look at their figures: they have been and are still plummeting.
  
  https://srv1.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:08am
Surely Knott

Biased Reporting from Newshub and Police who describes knife assault on conservative candidate as a “minor assault”?!? The article doesn’t name the accused. The accused was defacing the hoardings with the knife/box cutter. Newshub fails to mention that ALL the hoardings across west auckland have had the faces of the Conservative and National party hoardings systematically removed with a box cutter. No left parties have had the same treatment.

How can an assault with a weapon presumably a box cutter be described as minor. If Jacinda was attacked or threatened with a knife by righties would it be described as minor? If the left hoardings had all the faces systematically cut out of their hoardings would it have been reported on?

The man who is defacing the hoardings should be named. The public have a right to know before the election who has done it.
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September 11, 2020 8:56am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Don’t quite understand. Was the knife attack on a person or a hoarding?
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:57am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Both..
    The NC chap received a gash on his forearm
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122742829/man-spoken-to-by-police-after-new-conservative-member-assaulted-in-west-auckland
    
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    September 11, 2020 7:30pm
Inandout

This shows how far the woke establishment has seeped into the US universities. so much as to ‘unsettle’ students.
https://trends.gab.com/trend-feed/5f59dd00c1981470619f2be3
Watch for our war memorials to be the next target of ‘offended warriors’.
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September 11, 2020 8:58am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  If more woman, POC and others had actually risked their lives fighting in the war, then perhaps the depictions of events in the war would be more diverse. All of that white privilege was behind the slaughter, wasn’t it.
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:40am
greenfinger

Well, higher taxes on the rich pricks only managed to distract the public from the Princess’ And Labour’s woeful incompetence for one day. Now what?
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September 11, 2020 9:06am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I would say today they will do another attack on Judith Collins/her husband and his China dealings. Anything to take the heat off socialist trickery
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:51am
Critical Thinker

The CoL regime of NZ may look at punitive actions in removing free speech of New Zealanders, for what they deem to be “misinformation”, if it becomes a problem in regards to their official covid flu response narratives.

To treat “misinformation” like the virus itself. To eliminate it altogether… Just think of the authoritarian 1984 dystopia this would be if the CoL regime actually attempted to do this ?

https://twitter.com/TheOrwellianNZ/status/1303867093494890496
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September 11, 2020 9:06am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Dr Simon Thornley will most likely be first on the CoL regime “misinformation” target list ?
  
  “The fear and panic that has driven the response of many scientists, politicians, policy makers and the media, we believe is unwarranted and it’s even irrational. We’ve sacrificed humanity, our society and our economy for the wrong virus.
  
  Covid19 is a nasty flu-like virus. It’s new, but not unique. The death rate is only very marginally worse than the standard flu viruses that kill hundreds of sick and elderly New Zealanders every year.
  
  Seeking elimination comes with a heavy cost. The New Zealand government’s estimates, translated to quality adjusted life years, indicate that the costs outweighed the benefits of extended lockdowns designed to eliminate the virus, by a factor of 96:1.
  
  Instead, we must protect our elderly people and should closely monitor—and increase if needed—the capacity of our hospitals and public health services. Chasing an unrealistic goal comes with an unacceptably high price to our country that will take decades to repay.”
  – Dr Simon Thornley. Senior lecturer and researcher in Epidemiology and Biostatistics at the University of Auckland.
  
  https://twitter.com/TheOrwellianNZ/status/1303440494421315584
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:25am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    The World Health Organisation would also need to be silenced by the covidiot CoL regime ?
    
    “If you do not have any respiratory symptoms, such as fever, cough, or runny nose, you do not need to wear a medical mask. When used alone, masks can give you a false feeling of protection and can even be a source of infection when not used correctly.” – WHO
    
    https://twitter.com/WHOWPRO/status/1243171683067777024
    
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    September 11, 2020 11:33am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  We’ll have to learn to differentiate between information/misinformation/ disinformation.
  
  Thank goodness Siouxsie is on hand to help….
  https://sciblogs.co.nz/infectious-thoughts/2020/09/08/now-lets-flatten-the-infodemic-curve/
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:26am
  - SGA
    
    We’ll have to learn to differentiate between information/misinformation/ disinformation.
    
    You missed one – “malinformation” (it was new to me too, heard it used on the radio recently).
    
    Misinformation: Information that is false, but not created with the intention of causing harm (e.g. someone posting an article containing now out of date information but not realizing it).
    
    Disinformation: Information that is false and deliberately created to harm a person, social group, organization or country (e.g. a competitor purposely posting false statistics about your organization with an intent to discredit you)
    
    Mal-information: Information that is based on reality, used to inflict harm on a person, organization or country (e.g. someone using a picture of a dead child refugee (with no context) in an effort to ignite hatred of a particular ethnic group they are against).
    
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    September 11, 2020 10:32am
I remember when

Congestion Charges for Wellington Central City.
Regional Land Transport Plan for Greater Wellington, which was presented to local mayors last week, includes policy to continue pressing for charge.
Mayors in outer areas are not keen, with public transport options already near capacity.
Transport Minister Phil Twyford has ruled it out for now.
Mention was made, that with the reduced retail at present due to covid, now was hardly the time to introduce it.
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September 11, 2020 9:07am
greenfinger

I wonder l if there is still many queuing up to buy their way into NZ that Princess and her fan club claimed a few months ago because NZ was doing so well. The sudden “surge” and and higher taxes scare even the rich. Where are they now, my darling Princess?
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September 11, 2020 9:19am
kowtow

Angry Andy making big calls on investigating Weta work place culture .

Could someone remind me what he said about the PM’s office work place culture as it seems that’s gone down the memory Hole.

Asking cos the Media Party aren’t.
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September 11, 2020 9:33am
- Bob
  
  The Weta problem will be resolved once the entity is unionised.
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:22am
  - sooty
    
    Didn’t work in the PMs office!
    
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    September 11, 2020 1:55pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I had been pondering what is behind the Waikato Uni troubles in its Maori and Indigenous Studies Faculty…

Seems the Dean of the Faculty is not getting his contract extended….

and some $500,000 seems to be unaccounted for….

https://www.teaomaori.news/university-waikato-students-concerned-about-future-university-maori
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September 11, 2020 9:35am
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, Te Professor is qualified in what exactly, other than the obvious?
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:04am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The article puts it as not unaccounted for, but unauthorised through proper channels. Sounds like territorial disputes over expenditure rights among the Profs. Maori in Waikato may feel they have superior rights through tribal affiliation, (Not always recognised by Pakeha auditors.)
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:52am
- rangitoto
  
  Accounting is racist Maggy. That must be the explanation.
  
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  September 11, 2020 11:20am
  - Ruawai
    
    Accounting is part of colonisation.
    
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    September 11, 2020 12:38pm
Jack5

The NZ Hooerald in the City of ~~Sales~~ Sails has brought in Simon Wilson to explain the economy.

His Money Tree picture is intriguing, but here and there naivety shows through, as in this Wilsonianism:

“… some corporates are doing so well they’re paying dividends to their shareholders.”

Fucking greedy ? capitalists. Outrageous.

Misuse of language by the Greedy, too. Wilson and all of the enlightened know a dividend by definition is reserved to mean a “benefit of multiculturism”.
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September 11, 2020 9:49am
Odakyu-sen

The death rate from Covid-19 is at flu levels.
Check out https://toyokeizai.net/sp/visual/tko/covid19/en.html See the chart on the right, third from the top, entitled “Tested Positive By Age”.
Note that the Japanese government has probably not been testing at the rate of some other countries, so the number of assymptomatic cases could be quite large.
From the chart, please note that out of 8,348 recorded cases among Japanese in their 50s, only 45 deaths have been recorded (and we don’t know about comorbidities in those 45 deaths). That’s a death rate among positives of 45/8,348 = 0.54%
For the 60s the death rate among positives of 124/5224 = 2.4% (Note: many Japanese men in their 60s have been or still are smokers. (A packet of Seven Stars (Japan’ most popular cigarette) is about 480 yen ($NZ6.80) Rates of hypertension and pre-diabetes or Type-II diabetes gets much, much higher in the older age groups in Japan.)

NOTE: For the largest positive-tested group (20s) only ONE person has died out of the 19,827 tested positive.

Note: Less than 3% of Japanese have a BMI of above 25, compared with about 30% in most Western countries, which is a big plus in Japan for keeping the death rate down.

Remind me again why the government workers and politicians of New Zealand (and many other Western nations) are destroying their economies? For what?
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September 11, 2020 10:00am
Maggie Pie

“Hello Darkness My Old Friend…… ”

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhgqrVpXYAA7gIg?format=jpg&name=900×900

LOL!!!
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September 11, 2020 10:04am
- Inandout
  
  MP, unmistakable Biden ,even when wearing a black loops matter breathing apparatus.
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:16am
- Loddenthinks
  
  That frown on his face is his inner monologue saying: “It’s dark. Am I asleep? I’d really like a nap.”
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:44am
Komata

MaggyW@0935

Personal experience indicates that the ‘missing’ monies will never be found (although many will confirm that they had seen it); such is the ‘Maori way’ in matters of finance…

Financial Accountability is not a strength that is very pronounced within the ethnicity.

In respect of the ‘racism’ (and FWIW), casual observation would suggest that this could be more an ‘inter-tribal’ dispute than ‘racism’ per se’, and that certain individuals have become ‘offended’ because their tribe is not receiving what they ‘perceive’ is their due recognition (and appropriate financial recompense of course, in recognition of same).

As I said, FWIW…
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September 11, 2020 10:06am
Loddenthinks

I see the (appropriately-named) Andrew Childs is doing his bit to help Donald trump to get re-elected – https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122699207/auckland-brewerys-dump-the-trump-beer-hard-to-swallow-for-some

This genius has re-launched his Dump the Trump beer that he started brewing in 2016, in an effort to raise awareness of what a bad orange man Trump was. It backfired then and I expect a similar result this time around too.

So bitter and twisted is he about America’s greatest President, he also “produced several other politically-branded beers including Collusion, an American hopped Russian imperial stout; Tiny Hands, Uge Hops hazy double IPA; Not The Most Stable Genius, a hazy IPA; and Im-PEACH-ment sour ale.”

How’d that work out, Child?
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September 11, 2020 10:13am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  What a fuckwit.
  
  7 3
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  September 11, 2020 10:15am
- Inandout
  
  Lodden, his Child wife looks so benign and will be worshipped (social distance!) by the inner city cafe crowd. Next time a ‘right winger’ visits they could perhaps plant a MAGA hat on/in a beer vat.
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:23am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Those beers sold extremely well, so I’d say it worked out very well for him.
  
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  September 11, 2020 11:09am
- Batman
  
  I knew one of you would post about this haha.
  
  Well, I can tell you how it has worked out. The business has grown consistently since they were a small start-up in 2016 and the business is now worth several million and they have recently built a bar and restaurant / brewery.
  
  So as far as the crowd-sourced investors and the profits are concerned, they are doing perfectly well. And the range is bigger than what is cited in the story, those are just the political themed beers.
  
  They do make entirely too many Hazy IPAs though, and all fairly similar to be honest…
  
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  September 11, 2020 11:14am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    He’s still a fuckwit.
    
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    September 11, 2020 11:57am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Yeah, you probably could’ve guessed it would be me too. I have no objection to him building his brand and capitalising on TDS – I mean, it does DPF pretty well when page views/commenting numbers are sagging momentarily.
    
    Personally I think craft beers are a giant wank, but each to their own and all that.
    
    My point was more about him being Trump’s lucky charm, and the tears of impotent rage he’ll shed as a self-confessed US political tragic when Sleepy Joe crashes worse than Hillary.
    
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    September 11, 2020 1:32pm
- coge
  
  A shelf life of three more years.
  
  4 1
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  September 11, 2020 12:14pm
- cmm
  
  Make Ale Great Again
  
  Anyone else sick and tired of this poser shit they call beer? It’s like ponsy food: $30 for a plate with bugger all but a thin slice of whatever, a leaf of wilted kale and a swirl of pomegranate vinegar.
  
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  September 11, 2020 1:23pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    One. Hundred. Percent.
    
    6 1
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    September 11, 2020 1:32pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Now, now…
  He is a Rongotai College Old Boy (as is our Host).
  
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  September 11, 2020 1:39pm
greenfinger

Hey Princess, the housing market is booming and getting even more unaffordable since you took over three year ago, according to the cheerleaders among your left wing media fan club over the past few weeks. what’s your next trick for Kiwibuild? You know, that 100,000 houses you promised to build?
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September 11, 2020 10:15am
Captain Mainwaring

Breaking news. NZ will not be hosting the rugby championship.
How many votes will this cost Cindy?
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September 11, 2020 10:16am
- Inandout
  
  CW, you mean Aotearoa Rugby, surely?
  
  7 2
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  September 11, 2020 10:25am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  none, who cares about shitty rugby
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:36am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  ZERO. Any failure by Cindy is treated as a victory by Sheeple. Who cares about rugby championship when Cindy can make NZ 100% renewable energy by 2030?
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:42am
- fernglas
  
  According to people on this blog, most Labour voters are schoolmistresses, urban liberals, and a motley assortment of beneficiaries, homosexuals, god-botherers and the mentally disturbed, so probably not many of those are big on the footie.
  
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  September 11, 2020 11:20am
I remember when

Manawatu Standard today: Massey University policy banning staff from publicly criticising the university to remain in place.
In reality that shouldn’t be a problem, as the university is only some buildings and the property they stand on.
The land and property don’t make any decisions on the subjects and directions the university take.
A spokeswomen for the university told Stuff the policy would not be withdrawn. It was a management decision, not an employment matter, which did not require staff consultation.
So it is not really criticism of the university but criticism of the university management.
Is it time for the university management to remember that they are a small part of the staff, who were originally selected by a small number of an elite group.
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September 11, 2020 10:23am
I remember when

Chris Hipkins the virus is deadly.
Phil Goff the Covid scepticism a failing of intellect.
David Parker a vaccine expected by June (presumably next year) and don’t expect border to change before that.
Fortunately these weren’t announced at the 1pm Government briefing so may be open to debate.
Is there a pattern here? Is this electioneering?
So is this proof that this is the Covid Election?
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September 11, 2020 10:37am
- kowtow
  
  Yesterday Hipkins said something about people’s “Miranda rights” in relation to contact tracing .
  
  Methinks he’s been watching too many American TV crime fiction.
  
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  September 11, 2020 1:02pm
Loddenthinks

Oh, well done Robbo! You and your merry bunch of incompetent halfwits have cost New Zealand the chance of hosting The Rugby Championship later this year, to a state that has managed its quarantine facilities a lot better than you have (yes, I know that’s not saying much).

From the Herald – “Australia is believed to have secured the tournament on the basis of having superior quarantine regulations in regards to allowing teams to train while in isolation.”

And – “Following three months of detailed planning, difficulties negotiating with the New Zealand Government around strict quarantine regulations for visiting teams had left NZ Rugby frustrated.”

Typical of this government – put in regulations that prevent teams from being able to visit, but fail to follow your own regulations for New Zealanders returning. Muppets.
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September 11, 2020 10:38am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Sheeple will be happy because once again Cindy’s stringent quarantine regulations have saved lives.
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:43am
- Maggie Pie
  
  I hate rugby – but my partner was wondering if it will still be on Sky?
  
  8 3
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  September 11, 2020 11:08am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Spark Sports will snatch it right under the nose of useless Sky.
    
    6 2
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    September 11, 2020 12:00pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      “Useless Sky”…. LOL Tell me about it 🙁
      Watched a doco last week, Dr Pimple Popper. When the credits rolled, they showed it was made 11 years ago! Honestly, these guys should be up on charges of false pretenses.
      If it wasn’t for Housewifes of Hollywood, i’d tell them to stick it.
      
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      September 11, 2020 12:56pm
- Prince
  
  Opinion and editorial writers across the country are changing their ‘Brave NZ Govt wins again for team of 5 mil’ pieces to ‘Ignorant Sanza bosses place lives at risk’.
  The facts are the rest of the world are managing around the virus with various degrees of success.
  NZ is standing out as an isolated outpost at the end of the globe with no plan beyond the current month.
  
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  September 11, 2020 12:51pm
- Nickc2
  
  I for one am NOT F_ing HAPPY!!!
  Hold this bunch of incompetents to account come election day!!!!
  
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  September 11, 2020 1:05pm
cmm

The tracer app hasn’t really been tracing properly.

But no worries, the main purpose of having an app is to have an app… all theatre.
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September 11, 2020 10:50am
- Bob
  
  But will there be ‘Hugs and Feelz’ inAustralia
  
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  September 11, 2020 11:02am
oldfella

Labour is obviously playing it very safe with the current election campaign. Don’t make waves, keep smiling, don’t do anything to rock and boat.
I suspect Labour’s plan might work, and am now seriously wondering if Judith needs to stop being ‘nice’ and take the gloves off.
Being decent, thoughtful, and offering well considered policies just isn’t cutting through.
They’re trailing so much in the polls, what would they loose by going all out on the attack? A few votes? Would that matter?
What might they gain? Rattle Cindy and co and Labour could start making mistakes. That could be a gamechanger.
National certainly needs something dramatic to make this a real contest and I can’t see it happening with their current strategy.
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September 11, 2020 11:09am
- Isobar
  
  They might win some back from ACT, but it wont really help the right block.
  
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  September 11, 2020 1:01pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Sock it to them Judith.
  
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  September 11, 2020 5:00pm
Fletch

Biden taking “questions” and reciting his “answers” off a teleprompter (“Move it up here,” he says, sighing deeply, telling them to move the teleprompter so he’ll be able to answer the question.)

So his responses are obviously being typed by someone out the back for him to recite, but obviously not quickly enough.

https://twitter.com/abigailmarone/status/1303075954764414976

The whole thing is set up for him. I don’t know how his family assent to him being used like this. He should be out enjoying his retirement in a home.
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September 11, 2020 11:10am
- cmm
  
  Poor old bugger.
  
  While I do not think kindly of Mandela, I still think he did not deserve to be treated as he was by his own family at the end of his life.
  
  From September to December 2013 he was basically ready to die and was being kept alive by machinery in a coma. Why do that rather than just let him die peacefully?
  
  Well as it happens there were commercial interests: the Mandela movie was coming out in December and he was kept alive long enough to fie with perfect timing for the release of the movie a week later.
  
  I’m not suggesting Biden is at death’s door, but what they’re doing to him is elder abuse. Poor old sod should be in a retirement home sniffing Filipino nurses’ hair.
  
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  September 11, 2020 12:03pm
Maggie Pie

You learn something new every day….. 😀

‘Nonnetit Bastard’.
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September 11, 2020 11:20am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I can swap you a Geeveston Fanny for a Nonnetit Bastard.
  
  4 1
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  September 11, 2020 1:49pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I do enjoy a good juicy apple. Danish is not bad either.
    
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    September 11, 2020 4:58pm
Fletch

Trump totally smacks down ABC reporter who accuses him of lying….

https://www.facebook.com/BlazeMedia/posts/3468028896597905
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September 11, 2020 11:31am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If only Trump was 40 years younger. That reporter needs a throat punch for being an obnoxious prick
  
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  September 11, 2020 1:12pm
ex-golfer

So Labour are promising to open up immigration to more essential workers “IF RE_ELECTED”.
I thought the Great Leader didn’t want the COVID response to be politicized?
Obviously COVID is no longer a public health issue, but rather a tool to be used for Cindy’s re-election.
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September 11, 2020 11:59am
- ex-golfer
  
  And once again David Seymour beats Judith Collins to the punch:
  
  ACT leader David Seymour, responding to the policy, said Labour was “holding businesses hostage”.
  
  “If it’s safe for firms to bring skilled workers into the country, it should happen now, not after the election,” he said.
  
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  September 11, 2020 12:18pm
  - MCos
    
    David Seymour can say what he likes; he’ll never be held to account.
    Same as Peters with Tiwai Point & whatever unworkable promises these guys thunder on about.
    Judith Collins, on the other hand, has to be careful on the off chance she becomes PM and has to make good on promises.
    
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    September 11, 2020 2:42pm
    - chukar
      
      M cos
      No she doesn’t , just promise everything and then blame changes / non delivery on the coalitition partner.
      Worked in the past.
      Thanks MMP
      
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      September 11, 2020 8:57pm
I remember when

Just a thought.
Should Joe Biden have to take a drug test before each Presidential campaign speech?
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September 11, 2020 12:30pm
- Batman
  
  How about Comannder adderall? Or even just some answers about his late night hospital trip.
  
  See, it’s easy to play the squirrel game!
  
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  September 11, 2020 1:05pm
- cmm
  
  Unfortunately shampoo scent causes false positives.
  
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  September 11, 2020 1:16pm
I remember when

PM: Labour will relax Covid-19 Border rules to allow more skilled workers.
A review will be held of immigration criteria. Independent Working Group, Productivity Commission inquiry or Advice from a Department?
The item said 10% of places in managed isolation to be set aside for crucial workers.
Party plans to work with businesses, industries and the primary sector to identify where genuine need for critical and skilled workers exists.
So it’s back into the old ‘In Tray’, to dust of the numerous requests that have been ignored until now.
What happened to the ‘training New Zealanders to fill the gaps’ programmes to reduce unemployment?
Obviously still a need for plenty of people who talk-very-slowly needed to educate the Government!
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September 11, 2020 12:58pm
- sooty
  
  I see that they gave border exemptions to two conductors of the orchestra. One came and went without playing and the other one maybe will!
  
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  September 11, 2020 1:42pm
Inandout

Oh shit Judith the Greens won’t switch to National.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300104885/national-wants-electric-cars-in-bus-lanes-as-part-of-push-to-electrify-fleets
Go woke and lose the election.
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September 11, 2020 1:06pm
- kowtow
  
  Boris done the same in the UK , big ‘C’ conservatives are now Greens in drag.
  
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  September 11, 2020 4:00pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Pointless. There’s no global warming at this time of year.
  However, we may all get electric cars quicker than we thought. If current tests of the energy sources work out (the big money has lined on their side) cars may be fitted with a lifetime power cell smaller than present engines. No recharging needed.
  Coming to a home near you a 25Kw (expandable) power plant beer-fridge size to provide for all. The clever ones bringing this tech are still arguing about how it all works but meanwhile certification and production testing is underway. (Airbus has got patents for its use in their airfleet.)
  
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  September 11, 2020 4:45pm
I remember when

So the Ao Whutupaoro Kapu has gone to Ahitereiria.
Now that doesn’t sound so bad, does it?
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September 11, 2020 1:10pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Just had a blood test done. Comrade outside gave me a mask and ordered me to scan the QR code. I scanned it and then entered the lab. (I don’t have the Covid App on my phone. After the test I exited and threw the mask in a bin next to Herr Comrade.
Fuck I hate being ordered around by control freaks
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September 11, 2020 1:16pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Don’t get a blood test then.
  
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  September 11, 2020 2:06pm
  - Inandout
    
    m&m, well don’t let your lot riot, loot and burn buildings down.
    
    6 3
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    September 11, 2020 3:00pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      How do you know what my family is up to?
      
      2 8
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      September 11, 2020 4:02pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Mike you fucking wanker, the blood test is for PSA. I have low level prostate cancer.
    Go fuck yourself
    
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    September 11, 2020 3:55pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Boo fucking hoo. You want a blood test, abide by the rules, which are to protect you and others.
      
      3 15
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      September 11, 2020 4:01pm
      - RJ
        
        What a disgusting thing to say about cancer and someone with it.
        
        6 2
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        September 11, 2020 5:28pm
    - Inandout
      
      Steve, let him waffle on. Karma is a bastard.
      
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      September 11, 2020 5:03pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I know. He will get his biscuit one day
        
        1 5
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        September 11, 2020 5:20pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Got my own health issues, actually. No need to blub about it here though.
        
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        September 11, 2020 6:16pm
      - RJ
        
        People here might care if you weren’t such a hole to others. And I congratulate and thank anyone who speaks up about prostrate cancer, even if it just admitting they have it. So bugger off he’s not blubbing about it, if more people spoke up more might get checked. Stop being so vile.
        
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        September 11, 2020 8:55pm
- Inandout
  
  Steve, the Dr would have sent your details through to the Draculas (my doctor’s sense of humour) so all the nurse will ask is for your DOB and full name as verification. I would have also just made out I had an app on my phone, like I do for all Jacinda’s doorways.
  
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  September 11, 2020 2:58pm
- MCos
  
  “People say that if you’re still angry at 52, you’re not an angry young man, just a grumpy old git.“
  
  Paul Weller
  
  There’s a few grumpy old gits on this forum.
  
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  September 11, 2020 4:03pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You get an uptick for that old boy!
    
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    September 11, 2020 5:22pm
Catgurl13

Judith just announced she wants 80k electric cars on the road within the next couple of years……well she just lost my vote!!
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September 11, 2020 1:46pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Two ticks Yellow
  
  3 1
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  September 11, 2020 3:39pm
  - Isobar
    
    Aren’t they pink these days?
    
    1 3
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    September 11, 2020 4:12pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Trickery. She is gathering the lost moron green votes. Very clever
  
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  September 11, 2020 3:53pm
  - Inandout
    
    SO, dyed in the skin Greens would rather die than vote National.
    
    3 3
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    September 11, 2020 5:05pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The worm is changing, not turning
      
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      September 11, 2020 5:24pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  I’m pretty tempted, for suburban dwellers they are in most respects as good as ic engines. I’m just waiting for prices to come down,which is inevitable owing to production learning curves as they increase volume (around 20% reduction in manufacturing cost for ever doubling in volume). They are about 2% of global car sales now, increasing at about 50% per year so on track to increase to 10-20% in next 5 years.
  
  But other thing to watch is that as IC engines start to lose market share they will get more expensive to produce (less volume to amortise fixed overheads)
  
  EV’s were already cost competitive in ‘E’ segment luxury car market, are now competitive in ‘D’ segment (Model 3, A4, 3 series), with Model 3 is getting close to being most popular model. C, B and A segment competitiveness will happen in next 3-5 years.
  
  Also if/when Tesla gets their autonomous driving working they will get a huge bump in popularity.
  
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  September 11, 2020 5:07pm
Jack5

State radio, largely hijacked by Maori in the coup led by Wily Willie Jackson during the last term of the last National Government, keeps pushing for uncapped, race-based, low-marks entry to Otago University Medical School.

Radio NZ describes the latest group to effectively support entry discrimination against white, Asian, and other non-Polynesian students as a prominent medical organisation. This is the Maori Health Committee of the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons. Yes, the committee, not the College.

The university cap proposal could limit low-marks entry to 56 Maori a year and 20 ethnic Pacific Islanders. Maori and Pacific Islanders would still be able to gain entry on an equal footing with Asian and white students by passing with normal entry marks.

The committee is reported as calling on the university to guarantee low-mark admissions will always be uncapped. It says that, by capping low-pass entry numbers, the university is “accepting that Maori will continue to die on average seven years younger than non-Maori”. It also says that to give Maori equity under the Treaty of Waitangi the Maori medical work force needs to be increased.

“Maori and Pacifika doctors know the health and cultural needs of their communities best,” the committee adds.

If low-marks, race-based entry is uncapped, eventually marks required for other students to enter must become still higher in order to hold total numbers within university capacity. This will surely create a two-tier doctor system: high-mark intelligentsia, and those who entered with lower marks, and it would reflect the races of the two groups.

Perhaps this could even increase the difference in longevity between Maori and non-Maori New Zealanders.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018763605
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September 11, 2020 2:12pm
- Inandout
  
  [May be published with a link or other evidence. Mod.]
  
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  September 11, 2020 3:04pm
- peterwn
  
  As long as these minority students turn out to be successful doctors, what is the problem? The Pacific Islands and Maori communities need doctors, so it would be counter productive to produce a bunch of Einsteins who are merely interested in brain surgery and avoiding the 39% proposed tax rate for example and not interested in general practice.
  Ashley Bloomfield, Ministry of Health chief, fully supports Otago’s stance, and the odds are the Minister of Health supports it too. So any attempted legal action by rich parents of spoilt brats against the Otago Medical School is likely to fall flat on its face.
  
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  September 11, 2020 3:51pm
  - Jack5
    
    That’s a weird argument, peterwn.
    
    A rich but intellectually average student at Otago could well have rich Ngai Tahu parents and squeak into Medical School on low marks ahead of a bright white or Asian student with poor parents.
    
    Secondly, the views of Ashley Bloomfield are in no way necessarily morally or intellectually correct, nor even necessarily fair. He may (repeat, may) have done a good job in slowing Wuhan flu transmission. On the other hand, he may buggered the country economically. Let’s wait and see.
    
    Thirdly: As for interest in medical general practice – there are fine Maori medical graduates practising in this field, but there are heaps of fine white and Asian GPs, too.
    
    Fourthly: As for high-marks students being interested only in brain surgery – not true. There are plenty of bright non-Maori GPs as well as bright Maori GPs. That’s the way it should be. Intelligence counts in performance in medicine, as it does in other fields.
    
    Unlimited entry for Maori and other Polynesian students on lower marks than those required of students of other ethnicities is racist and wrong.
    
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    September 11, 2020 5:14pm
    - peterwn
      
      Like it or not, Ashley Bloomfield is the Governments principal adviser on health matters and in this role is highly influential when advising the Government on medical education, especially when money allocations are required whether it is to fund medical schools or with regard to hospital and medical facilities needed for the training of medical students.
      
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      September 11, 2020 7:11pm
      - Jack5
        
        If Bloomfield makes racist recommendations he deserves to be sacked.
        
        On Wuhan flu, he and Jacindarella should be measured against the brilliant performance of Taiwan.
        
        In containment NZ has fallen far behind Taiwan, and Taiwan has also kept its businesses running and schools open.
        
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        September 11, 2020 7:36pm
eview

To probably no one’s surprise, the Ministry of Health has recently put out incorrect information/misinformation. It’s the gift that just keeps on giving.

They said that the St Dominic’s student was a close contact of a confirmed case. It turns out that this was not true. The student was “among the cases that were infected by someone who was part of the church congregation, but were not close contacts.”
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300102684/covid19-student-who-tested-positive-an-undisclosed-contact-hipkins-says

Then, in an almost comical reversal of the first situation, they failed to mention that the source of the bereavement cluster was a close contact and that they “should have been in isolation for 14 days even if they tested negative.”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12363903

If this is happening due to sheer incompetence, then is is mind-blowing – especially at this late stage of the game. Since February, there has been countless times the Ministry of Health has either unwittingly given us incorrect information, or willfully misrepresented the truth… And all of this comes from a government which expects us to essentially worship them as the “one source of truth.”

It’s no wonder more and more people are losing trust in this government. When Hipkins said yesterday that there had been the “repeated, deliberate and malicious” spread of misinformation, I found it more than a little ironic and amusing. He is just as guilty of contributing to this spread, being part of a government which has done more than its fair share of intentionally spreading inaccurate and misleading information, since the start of the pandemic.
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September 11, 2020 3:33pm
Loddenthinks

More lies and disingenuity from the media – the headline is Entire Flight in Canada Cancelled Because of Toddler’s Mask

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/122734325/entire-flight-in-canada-cancelled-because-of-toddlers-mask

In fact, the flight was cancelled due to heavy-handed bullying by a boxcar Bertha in a complete over-reaction to a family struggling to put a mask on a toddler – who wasn’t even required to have one. Most of the passengers called out this bully and coward, who called security and the police to prove a point, which then made her decide she “felt unsafe to continue” so they cancelled the entire frickin flight.

This is what happens when you give petty jobsworths a bit of power. I hope she gets sacked by the airline for the hundreds of thousands of dollars her actions caused.
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September 11, 2020 3:35pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Breaking News Ozzie Osborne is now the official interpreter for Joe Biden and he approved this message.
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September 11, 2020 3:52pm
Happychappy

It shows how much Talent Labour has to run this country when their biggest outlay in a Election ad is all about Jacinda.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300105195/election-2020-spotlight-on-jacinda-ardern-in-labours-first-big-election-ad Labours Prime Minister is obviously the convincing liar in the the Labour Party and seen by most as the only person that can assure them the Treasury Benches for the next 3 years so it all about Jacinda on Labours Television Ads as the rest of the party couldn’t run a piss up ina brewery if asked.
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September 11, 2020 4:09pm
- sharont
  
  The problem with that ad is that Cindy says that they’ve shown what they can do with a plan – well, we all know that they’ve failed miserably on everything in their last plan. She would have been better to have left out the words “We have shown what we can do”. You can fool some of the people some of the time … the election result will show how much intelligence there is in NZ …
  
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  September 12, 2020 12:42am
Happychappy

David Parker shows his arrogance by calling out those that don’t like labours new tax policy.
Parker if you dont like our tax policy go vote for someone else.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300105195/election-2020-spotlight-on-jacinda-ardern-in-labours-first-big-election-ad
This is from a Government that lied and bullshitted it’s way in the first term and used tragedies to and deciet to gather votes.
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September 11, 2020 5:43pm
- rangitoto
  
  No problem. I will vote for someone else as suggested by Parker.
  
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  September 11, 2020 8:26pm
Tall Man

I am sick of Arden’s bullshit about “kiwis” coming home. The bulk are not “kiwis” but visa holders coming back to get the dole etc. Most are not residents and they don’t plan to add to our economy.
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September 11, 2020 5:50pm
- Jack5
  
  The bolt-hole residency holders.
  
  No-one figured in that in an international crash, these folk would come pouring back in for our health, education, and our unemployment benefits.
  
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  September 11, 2020 7:32pm
- Harriet
  
  Then marshal the flanks in the field for the civil war ! 😎
  
  More people will vote with their feet and LEAVE for OZ than will vote for the Greens and NZF combined.
  
  ACT should publicly say so.
  
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  September 11, 2020 9:09pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Tell me again he will not win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?
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September 11, 2020 5:54pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The polls read you today were brought to you by the same people who promised a Hillary win in 2016.
Let that sink in
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September 11, 2020 6:02pm
- oob
  
  God I wish you Trump numpties would fuck off.
  
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  September 11, 2020 10:56pm

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