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September 25, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 September 2020

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General Debate

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Steve Otto(North Shore)

Two ticks blue, and
Trump 2020 landslide
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September 25, 2020 8:06am
- lastmanstanding
  
  A message to the Ladies who Lunch in Remuera Khandallah and Fendalton.
  
  If you vote Green you can kiss goodbye to.
  
  1. Tamsyn and Toby continuing at the private school.
  
  2. Holidays in the Greek Islands.
  
  3. The Bach/Crib.
  
  4. The reno of the town house. In fact you will be downsizing the town house.
  
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  September 25, 2020 9:15am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    1. Tamsyn and Toby continuing at the private school, unless you move to New Plymouth.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:23am
    - lastmanstanding
      
      Greens Wealth Tax means Daddy wont be able to afford $43K X2 fees for them.
      
      29 1
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      September 25, 2020 9:28am
      - coge
        
        Unless Daddy can find a way to write it off!
        
        4 1
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        September 25, 2020 12:51pm
    - Inandout
      
      Lodd, New Plymouth has installed a paid token Maori on their council; not a good place to live.
      
      15 2
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      September 25, 2020 9:38am
      - Unity
        
        Is anyone else getting sick and tired of Maori words preceding everything on TV?!! My hackles now rise every time it is spoken. There is a Maori channel for these things but it seems to be overtaking our lives on the regular channels. Part Maori are no more special than anyone else. If they want to learn their made-up language then good luck to them but please don’t foist it on me. I want to listen to a channel that speaks English. Goodness knows how our children are going to end up speaking – it’s looking like it will be pidgen English. We all speak English so let’s us ensure it is spoken properly.
        
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        September 25, 2020 11:45am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        No, I’m not ‘sick and tired’ of it at all.
        
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        September 25, 2020 1:02pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Mike, from now on you can be
        mohio nga mea katoa Mike. How about that?
        
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        September 25, 2020 1:48pm
  - mandk
    
    You could also include the ladies who lunch in Seatoun, Khandallah and Eastbourne.
    You see a fair number of Greens billboards in those places.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:40am
artemisia

Religious hate speech is back on the agenda after Ms Ardern’s visit to Christchurch yesterday. She said if re-elected, Labour plans to include religion under legislation that deals with hate speech and discrimination.

“We haven’t been able to progress change in this area but that’s something we’re committing to as the Labour Party,” she said.

Random question – will ‘allahu akbar’ be counted as hate speech? Since it is the most prevalent precursor to violence and terrorism these days. If so, under what circumstances if any.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/labour-promise-tougher-hate-speech-laws-if-re-elected
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September 25, 2020 8:07am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ardern was also sprinkling money or promises of it on her New Brighton stopover yesterday.
  
  This election should be declared void through electoral bribery and the Nats the Winners by default.
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:24am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    You really don’t get how these election thingies work, do you?
    
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    September 25, 2020 8:26am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      It is 2020. Buying elections is the done thing //
      
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      September 25, 2020 8:44am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        2019, 2018 and the latter quarter of 2017 were not immune either.
        
        Provincial Growth Fund anyone?
        
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        September 25, 2020 9:17am
      - igm
        
        Utilising taxpayer-funded $50m bribes to gain a compliant media produces cover-ups such as this:
        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/426547/judith-collins-downplays-national-s-fiscal-error-defends-paul-goldsmith
        Why have MSM hidden this . . . shows how disingenuous these cruds are.
        
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        September 26, 2020 1:20am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Any politician who offered such blatant electoral bribes as we are seeing now would have previously been run out of town.
      If they are going to have an election it needs to be fair.
      
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      September 25, 2020 8:53am
      - Albert_Ross
        
        How is it “not fair”? Nothing to stop any other party from offering huge bribes.
        
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        September 25, 2020 9:32am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Mike gets that, he would like politicians to be run out of town for offering bribes – so long as it was National or Act doing the bribes.
        
        He’s hopelessly besotted with Jacinda. She could say go out an kneecap infidels and he would do it. He places emotion before logic with a 100% certainty.
        
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        September 25, 2020 9:41am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Kev, you’re clearly intelligent and perceptive, but you’re miles off base with this one. Pork-barrel politics has been around since the late 1800s and is enthusiastically adopted by all major parties in all general elections everywhere.
        
        If you think National aren’t also doing this then you haven’t been paying attention.
        
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        September 25, 2020 9:42am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Since the late 1800’s !?! Pork barrel politics has been around as long as there’s been politics. No doubt some aspiring Denisovans politician promised “a mammoth in every pot and free stone flake spear points for all…”
        
        Ain’t never going to change either.
        
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        September 25, 2020 1:52pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    KOB – That is the only way the pathetic Nats can win this election. Goldie Hawn’s finance plan contains as many holes as there are in a sieve.
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:21am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      All the dosh that been promised, but mostly not yet uploaded, would have been regarded as plain bribery previously. Neither party would have attempted to indulge. Now the Opposition is bit stuck as the humongous bribes are being tolerated and almost encouraged. There must be repercussions.
      
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      September 25, 2020 1:28pm
- David George
  
  They call it “hate speech”, who would not be opposed to that!
  I believe Andrew Little is basing his anti free speech laws on those in the UK.
  Saying that “women don’t have penises” is classed as hate speech (a trans might be offended) and is a criminal offence. The Truth is no defense, illegal even.
  Religion, ideas, ideology, culture will no longer be able to be honestly discussed when the criteria for criminality is entirely the possibility of someone taking “offense”. National need to get this out in the open.
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:38am
  - Philview
    
    I have read that even using the word “women” may be offensive and now the description is “People who menstruate”. The New Zealand Government managed to slip in a couple of weeks a diktat that children at school must be allowed to self identify their own gender. Interesting where science is and isn’t allowed a voice.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:15am
    - Flossie
      
      What about the transwomen. As far as I know medical science hasn’t made one of them menstruate yet.
      
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      September 25, 2020 10:23am
- Unity
  
  Didn’t she look so ridiculous with the scarf yesterday. She doesn’t seem to realise the significance of it and how much many Muslim woman would dearly like to give it away.
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:49am
  - yossarian
    
    She’s been dying to break that out all year, and that bloody Covid thing came along and burst her opportunity to be on the cover of Time Magazine
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:08am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    She has secured the votes of all muslims in NZ. That is all she was playing for.
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:23am
    - Flossie
      
      Not all. There’s an article in NZ Herald by Ali Shakir saying although he’s voted Labour ever since he’s been entitled to a NZ vote (got here 12 years ago) this year he’s going to leave the ballot paper blank. Due – the way I read it – to the broken promises. He obviously isn’t going for the two blue ticks, but not to vote Labour is not bad!
      
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      September 25, 2020 11:16am
- JackRabbit
  
  Hate Speech amounts to state controlled censorship. Once the censorship mechanism is in place, it can be manipulated to include or exclude whatever speech they define as necessary to control the masses. It is essentially a control on freedom of expression.
  
  Again, another tool used by the bad German with the poor haircut and comb shaped mustache.
  
  “Hate Speech or “incitement of popular hatred” (Volksverhetzung) may be punishable if against segments of the population and in a manner that is capable of disturbing the public peace (Section 130 Agitation of the People), including racist agitation and antisemitism.”
  
  Be very afraid.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_Federal_Republic_of_Germany
  
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  September 25, 2020 9:29am
  - Bob
    
    This proposed legislation is more based on the Soviet Union model of thought control.
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:21am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Which is?
      
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      September 25, 2020 11:35am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Pleased to see Collins pour some cold water on this (and even more pleased to see Seymour do so even more strongly and much more articulately).
  
  As usual the MSM (and Ardern) conflate two quite distinct concepts: discrimination on the grounds of race, religion, gender or sexual orientation is uncool and is already illegal.
  
  “Hate speech” is something altogether different, although I confess I have no idea what it actually means. Ardern said “you know it when you see it” but I disagree, especially if it’s as subjective as that. I’ve never been able to find a definition of hate speech that withstands even the slightest scrutiny, or doesn’t trample all over my rights to freedom of expression.
  
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  September 25, 2020 9:37am
  - Swifty
    
    ““Hate speech” is something altogether different, although I confess I have no idea what it actually means. Ardern said “you know it when you see it” but I disagree, especially if it’s as subjective as that. I’ve never been able to find a definition of hate speech that withstands even the slightest scrutiny, or doesn’t trample all over my rights to freedom of expression.”
    
    Excellent.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:41am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      I blush
      
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      September 25, 2020 11:01am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Go somewhere like a McDonalds or a supermarket in which all the employees are Indian and they have an Indian manager, then tell me about the illegality of discriminating on the basis of race or religion.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:43am
  - Max
    
    Socialism use hate speech to further take away civil liberties. Using fear tactics governments have taken away freedom in exchange for security. In modern times the healthy have never been locked down.
    I would prefer to live with freedom which has been hard earned by previous generations, my Father for example in WW2 fought the NAZIs by name of National Socialist German Workers’ Party, German Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (NSDAP), political party of the mass movement known as National Socialism who were aligned with Japan. Perhaps that history will become ‘hate speech’ in the future?
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:58am
    - JackRabbit
      
      It is always “haters” that introduce “hate speech” laws. This lot are no different.
      
      They hate competition, they hate capitalism, they hate businesses, they hate farmers, they hate oil exploration, they hate freedom of speech, they hate people being able to think for themselves, they hate not being right…
      
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      September 25, 2020 11:38am
  - Rich Prick
    
    I heard Cindy too. She was conflating speech with discrimination. Those are two very different things and I think She is using discrimination as a Trojan Horse for limiting our freedom (let’s face it, they have had a pretty good trial run with Covid19). I could say I can’t stand Islam. That isn’t discrimination, but I imagine it will be “hate speech”.
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:21am
- thirteenstars
  
  “We haven’t been able to progress change in this area but that’s something we’re committing to as the Labour Party,” she said.
  
  See the rationale at work? The indoctrination in schools and the pervasive political correctness in society has not worked, so now we use force.
  
  To everyone who falls for the Marxist mantra that it’s all about “educating people”, wake up. That’s just a precursor to regulation. Just a softening-up. It’s not the state’s role to educate or indoctrinate citizens in different attitudes or opinions. It’s the state’s function to protect the right to express opinions no matter how marginal.
  
  The hate speech laws are designed to enforce an orthodoxy. An approved, officially-sanctioned way of thinking and speaking. It’s thought control, plain and simple.
  
  But, again, like so many times before, I wonder where National is on hate speech and government internet filters. Surely they reject such notions outright. But I wonder, I really do.
  
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  September 25, 2020 11:10am
Scott

Last night on three news they lead with a story of Jacinda Adern going to the mosque where all the people were killed, putting on a hijab again and listening to a speech from the local imam. The imam said that we needed hate speech laws in New Zealand to stop these massacres happening again. And the reporter, Tova O’Brien, affirmed that position and said we needed hate speech laws about religion. Our Prime Minister agreed and also wanted to add hate speech laws based on sexual orientation and gender and Lord only knows what else?

Unfortunately we are witnessing the death of liberal democracy. When Muslim foreigners, who have no tradition of free speech in Islam, can come to this country and demand that we change our laws according to their preferences. First of all free speech is the foundation of the liberal democracy that we enjoy. Lose that and we lose everything. If liberal democracy is about anything it is about freedom of speech. To say your piece, to speak your mind according to your conscience.

Secondly foreigners should learn to assimilate and live in our country. Not to change our country to resemble the country that they left behind.

Unfortunately we have an unholy alliance of left-wing activists and Muslim fundamentalists conspiring together to destroy freedom of speech with hate speech laws.
We can be assured that these hate speech laws will be used to protect Islam, which is the favoured religion of the left-wing progressive, and to denigrate Christianity, which is not.

Andrew Little is beavering away putting together these hate speech laws. We need to take these things into account when we vote in October. We either stand up for liberal democracy and free speech or we vote for the continuing creep of socialism in the form of hate speech laws that will take away free speech. The choice is there for every voter.
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September 25, 2020 8:09am
- Chuck Bird
  
  However, the race relations commissioner, Meng Woon ignored my complaint about the racist attack by Labour trolls on Judith’s Collins’ husband.
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:21am
- Mike22240
  
  I agree broadly with what you say. If it goes ahead I think a lot of people will get charged for attacking Christianity.
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:23am
  - Lance
    
    Nope, there will be a clause that Christian’s are all evil and deserve to be hated.
    
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    September 25, 2020 8:43am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Especially white Christians . . .
      
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      September 25, 2020 9:19am
  - kowtow
    
    TV3 will have to drop their anti Gloriavale witch hunt , oops investigation.
    
    Nah , we all know that pale stale male will still be open season.
    
    As to new laws preventing anything . …….. how’s that anti smacking thingy goin’ in respect of our appalling record for child /baby murder ?
    
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    September 25, 2020 8:55am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Yes, probably a ‘witch hunt’:
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122860838/gloriavale-man-20-charged-with-indecent-acts-on-three-boys
      
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      September 25, 2020 9:14am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      we used to live next to some gloriavale escapees, some nasty shit goes on there and newshub is actualy doing a good thing but with a couple hundred manipulated labour voters there I doubt govt will intervene.
      
      mark my words gloriavale will be NZs very own waco, the leaders and top few men their will not give in if police/govt goes in to shut them down. cyanide sandwiches, shootout and a big bonfire will be the result.
      
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      September 25, 2020 10:55am
  - mark15
    
    I can assure you thats not how it works.See every western european country for confirmation.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:23am
- Justitia
  
  “And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”
  
  Koran, Chapter 9, verse 5.
  
  I am hopeful that when Jacinda’s hate speech laws are introduced this book, which also requires followers to kill apostates, infidels in general, homosexuals and female adulterers etc, will be the first cab off the rank to be banned.
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:29am
  - Swifty
    
    “If they continue to believe our religion is bullshit and that they refuse to submit to us – then kill them.
    
    However, if they agree to submit to us then let them live.”
    
    The perfect book, they say. The most beautiful words ever put to paper, they say. Containing not a single error, they say. Written by God, they say.
    
    And, according to the CHC imam it should be criminal to criticise this? To subject this to scrutiny? To point out the inconsistencies, to question the claims?
    
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    September 25, 2020 8:46am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Lots of people think lots of odd things are written by (a) god. Check out the funky rules in Leviticus, for example.
      
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      September 25, 2020 9:13am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Please say you oppose hate speech laws then.
        
        We already have laws against defamation and threats. Enough.
        
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        September 25, 2020 9:48am
      - Justitia
        
        We can ban that too milky if it is inspiring people to do murder and mayhem in the name of their “God”.
        
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        September 25, 2020 9:49am
      - Jimmy the Brush
        
        Except Christianity has has a Reformation
        
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        September 25, 2020 9:51am
    - Justitia
      
      Yes Swifty, it’s also a book with a proven track record of inspiring some of the worst crimes and atrocities in modern times. Think 9/11, The attacks on the London underground, Charlie Hebdo, Mt Sinjar and the rape and extermination of the Yazidis, Mosul and the extermination of the Christians, the Bataclan, London Bridge, the Manchester Arena, Barcelona, the Madrid train bombings, etc. There is a solid case here for giving this pernicious text the same treatment as Tarrant’s manifesto.
      
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      September 25, 2020 9:25am
      - Justitia
        
        I think you will find Loddenthinks that Little’s law will only ban “islamophobia”, not criticism or ridicule of other religions. But I think whatever is good for the goose should be good for the gander.
        
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        September 25, 2020 10:06am
      - Swifty
        
        “There is a solid case here for giving this pernicious text the same treatment as Tarrant’s manifesto.”
        
        Ain’t that the truth.
        
        However, as I am a believer in the freedom of speech I would favour a society where they are free to say what they like and I am free to call them on their lack of basic humanity, their genocidal and totalitarian foundational texts, their appalling views on human rights and their disgraceful treatment of women.
        
        By doing this we will see better ideas prevail and in an open contest.
        
        🙂
        
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        September 25, 2020 10:08am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    I can’t disagree more. Be very careful what you wish for when it comes to allowing things to be banned, your belief system might easily be next.
    
    No books should be banned, no religions should be banned but we must be free to criticise and openly mock any and every religion.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:52am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    A real book of “hate speech” and still in current practice–ISIS etc.
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:27am
- Swifty
  
  Very well put Scott.
  
  I heard the imam on RNZ last night calling for hate speech laws but to be fair to Ardern her qoute was about religious discrimination and it wasn’t immediately obvious to me that she was calling for exactly the same thing. She may have, people are free to put me right if I have this wrong.
  
  So, again, it all boils down to what is meant by ‘hate speech’ and what is meant by ‘religious discrimination’. The devil will be in the detail.
  
  Regardless, however, the imam has got this wrong. He over-reached. If he intends for the state to criminalise criticism of his religion then he’s letting the country down. It would be a huge backward step.
  
  The last thing NZ needs is the reintroduction of blasphemy laws.
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:31am
  - tf78
    
    Can I still hate Brussel Sprouts? Or will that be against the law. I thought everyone was told to just ‘be kind’ – won’t need any laws then.
    
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    September 25, 2020 8:49am
    - geoff3012
      
      No you bloody can’t……they are glorious!
      
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      September 25, 2020 9:23am
      - tf78
        
        haha!
        
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        September 25, 2020 10:48am
    - IC5000
      
      No, they’re good for you like tax breaks for the wealthy. No sure how but they are because someone told me so eat up.
      
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      September 25, 2020 10:51am
    - Jimmy White
      
      You can hate Brussel Sprouts but not Sprouts from Brussels
      
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      September 25, 2020 11:07am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Perhaps the Imam could toddle off back to some more conducive jurisdiction? He’d clearly be far happier there.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:50am
  - artemisia
    
    Ms Ardern is reported at the below link as referring several times to hate speech.
    
    Today, Ardern said if re-elected, Labour would plan to include religion under legislation that deals with hate speech and discrimination.
    
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/labour-promise-tougher-hate-speech-laws-if-re-elected
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:56am
- Nickc2
  
  We call NZ a democracy? Wake up NZ FFS, we are on a road to self destruction.
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:45am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    Cindys paved it with good intentions tho so be kind be caring and keep moving.
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:58am
- Deagle
  
  It’s inevitable that these laws will get pushed through, if not soon, then eventually.
  
  And as we have seen in other countries, the law will be applied selectively.
  
  And then what? I suppose it would be hate speech to stand up and oppose hate speech laws?
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:56am
  - Nickc2
    
    You mean like Londonstan?
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:12am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Look at what happened in Victoria – the police will kick your door in and drag you off in handcuffs.
    
    Disagreeing with government edicts = incitement.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:50am
    - Deagle
      
      I am thankful that we haven’t descended into Dan Andrews / Victoria levels of authoritarianism.
      
      I haven’t entirely figured out why that isn’t the case here, but I’m not so sure that it isn’t an inevitable reality.
      
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      September 25, 2020 10:31am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        They went after that guy with the .22. Armed offenders squad at your place when you are feeding the kids.
        
        Mike Bush – obey the illegal lockdown or take a trip to my place.
        
        We aren’t that far off. A bit more fear, a few more escapes and cock-ups and we will be there.
        
        Remember Comrade, only 3 more lockdowns till Christmas!
        
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        September 25, 2020 3:25pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    They will only get through if we let them.
    The COL does not own the Parliament.
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:29am
- Classic Liberal
  
  “ Unfortunately we have an unholy alliance of left-wing activists and Muslim fundamentalists conspiring together to destroy freedom of speech with hate speech laws.”
  
  Yes, in the UK Surah 4:34 keeps on telling men to to beat their wives!
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:56am
  - Sigmund Freud
    
    Maybe there is a message for men in Surah 4:34 to FINALLY sort out the problem…
    
    … it seems most of the traitors to Western enlightenment are snotty females such as Jacinda and Tova.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:15am
    - Flossie
      
      I cannot condone – even in jest – anybody beating women (or beating anybody really)
      
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      September 25, 2020 10:09am
- oldpark
  
  Wonder do they have Hate Speech Laws in SRI LANKA . Around the time of the Chch Deaths Miss Ardern with full Hijab aboard showed great Empathy to the Chch Murders of Muslims . Well and good .
  Yet when 0ver 200 Christians were murdered in SRI LANKA in reprisal attacks by Muslims after the Chch shootings on Easter Sunday of that year . They were referred to as Easter Worshippers allegedly by Miss Ardern, if even that type of empathy at all . Wonder how the same Ardern would view NZ Christians in their hour of need. Asking for a friend.
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:56am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  So will these new laws stop having a separate entrance to a mosque and segregated praying area’s for woman and transgender.
  Quite ironic if she was shuffled through the womans door.
  Will she introduce a law that has a third door for a person that is not a male or female.
  In Iran, the third door is to the top floor and you are thrown off. If she actually brings the various interpretations of the Koran to heel, she is smarter than I thought.
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:56am
- Philview
  
  I have been following the debate of the Scottish Hate Speech Bill. This is quite clearly all about the Leftwing progressives controlling Christianity. The proposal that inflammatory material will be illegal has already seen left wing lawyers starting work towards getting the Bible banned in Scotland.
  
  https://archbishopcranmer.com/if-the-snps-hate-bill-becomes-law-scots-freedom-of-religion-will-end/
  
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  September 25, 2020 9:08am
- burt
  
  Some Islamic states have the death penalty for homosexuality. I guess it’s OK to kill gays if you are Muslim but you can’t say anything against them if you are not.
  
  How long till someone gets locked up for saying FGM is wrong?
  
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  September 25, 2020 9:10am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    FGM is a tragic continuing problem.
    3 million girls worldwide are at risk of being butchered annually. Somalia is the king, 98% have had their organs butchered.
    Convictions are almost impossible here.
    Girls are taken internationally on a holiday to be butchered with the parents blessings.
    FGM is just a medievil custom thats deprives woman of any sexual satisfaction.
    Most are butchered around 6 years old.
    Maybe someone can give me an opinion on the upside of this practise.
    A subject all politicians ignore.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:56am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Sheeple don’t care a damn about free speech. They care only about free money. Move on will ya?
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:26am
- Flossie
  
  “foreigners should learn to assimilate and live in our country. Not to change our country to resemble the country that they left behind”.
  
  So true Scott – deserves repeating!
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:27am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Sounds like Scott is condemning the colonial transformation of Aotearoa.
    
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    September 25, 2020 11:23am
- cmm
  
  The biggest problem with hate speech laws is how do you keep score.
  
  Is it hate speech when a religious text or organisation calls for violence against others?
  It is hate speech when a relious text or organisation calls for violence against women/gays/whatever?
  Is it hate speech to condemn a religion which does these things?
  
  Untimately they become hypocritical.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:35am
- thirteenstars
  
  Well said, Scott.
  
  Where the hell is National on this? It’s is beyond believe that the party has not made a clear statement rejecting the very notion of hate speech laws. They are missing in action.
  
  It is also a clear winner in a debate. Why can’t Collins make a simple statement that National does not want the spectacle of police knocking on doors telling Kiwis the language they have used is considered hate speech and is liable for prosecution?
  
  But my question is almost rhetorical. Many of us gave up long ago on National taking such principled positions and having the intellectual and philosophical wherewithal to back them up.
  
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  September 25, 2020 12:42pm
  - Raphael
    
    I’ve seen a number of National MPs making very clear statements rejecting it.
    
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    September 25, 2020 1:26pm
    - thirteenstars
      
      National *policy* needs to be a firm rejection. MPs take personal positions all the time. That’s not enough.
      
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      September 25, 2020 6:40pm
  - Nickc2
    
    I think JC will slip it in during the next leader’s debate on TV. The audience will be greater and Cindy won’t have much wriggle room. JC needs to remind Cindy that the Nazis used the same tactic NZ Labour is about to implement if elected and NZ needs to be worried.
    
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    September 25, 2020 1:32pm
- MCos
  
  “foreigners should learn to assimilate and live in our country”
  My mother was a foreigner in this country.
  She carried on pretty living pretty much as she had in England.
  What exactly should she have done differently?
  
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  September 25, 2020 2:20pm
  - softail 1450
    
    Mcos ,put her beer in the fridge ?
    
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    September 25, 2020 3:24pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Learn te reo?
    
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    September 25, 2020 3:28pm
I remember when

Environment Southland 2017-18 Compliance Monitoring Report:
A busy year with 961 incidents up 34% on previous year. The vast majority of consent holders across Dairying, Industry, Territorial Authorities performed well in their monitoring and reporting.
In Southland, all Dairy farms are inspected (941 effluent discharge consents) some more than once a year.
There continues to be a strong focus on compliance within the Dairy sector.
The rate of significant non-compliance was 1.9% (down from 4.1% the previous year).
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September 25, 2020 8:10am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  and the rate of council non compliance is…
  
  duno what it is this year but for the last decade council sewerage/wastewater non compliance has been almost double any dairy non complaince and that trend is nationwide.
  
  farmers have moved with the times and invested in infrastructure whereas councils chased vanity projects and now theyre up for billions to even get compliant and billions more to future proof.
  
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  September 25, 2020 11:03am
RRM

So I was playing Scrabble on my phone just now….

And one of the advertisements that popped up between turns was for Wellington Water!

WTAF?? They look after the water supply, and the sewage system, and stormwater, this isn’t a decision I get to make, WHY are they spending money on advertising? They’re getting my business no matter what.
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September 25, 2020 8:10am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Would you give your shit to someone else if there was an alternative though?
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:15am
  - rockape
    
    yes I would and do/ all my shit is processed through a biolitic sewage Worm Farm) system then feeds my orchard.
    
    2 1
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    September 25, 2020 9:33am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    They must have lots of spare cash floating around since it’s not like they have a major sewage and storm-water pipe problem or anything.
    
    4 1
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    September 25, 2020 9:58am
- peterwn
  
  Still waiting for them to do something about a leaking fire hydrant I reported a few days ago. With all the concern about saving water I would have thought they would at least have someone in a ute to look at complaints immediately. Worse still, water leaks can compromise roadways and footpaths requiring expensive repair work, which is even more reason they need to be fixed ASAP.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:04am
Chris R

This week has been National’s. In this campaign every week until now has been ACT’s. The pomposity of the policy-free Labour Party is costing them dearly. They deserve to lose and to lose significantly.
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September 25, 2020 8:10am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  yeah for the reasons of Goldie Hawn’s budegt holes. How can an aspiring Finance Minister be so brainless?
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:27am
Rusty

If Trump doesn’t win in a landslide then the USA and the free world are in trouble.

Now if we can only get rid of the Democrats/lefty cousins in NZ in October!
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September 25, 2020 8:12am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Do you realise that the nearest equivalent to the Democratic Party in New Zealand is the National party?
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:21am
  - amospicton
    
    That might have been true a decade ago MM but not now. The Democrats have been captured by identity politics and have veered further to the left. I do find it interesting though that the social liberal/economic conservative has no home in US politics.
    
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    September 25, 2020 8:46am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Nah, not buying that. The Democratic Party is comfortably centre-right in normal liberal-democratic terms. The US has no political party that would strongly advocate for European-style welfare capitalism, let alone a party that could resist the urge to fight never-ending wars.
      
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      September 25, 2020 9:11am
      - Batman
        
        Ghandi: GOP barely center right? Come one, how far does the centrepoint need to shift to fit that whopper?
        
        The GOP is no more centrist than Stalin.
        
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        December 25, 2019 12:22pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Don’t be ridiculous. The GOP is barely centre-right, let alone the socially and economically liberal, open borders-advocating, big welfare-supporting, progressive left Democrats.
        
        5 7
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        September 25, 2020 9:27am
      - Inandout
        
        m&m, the Dems are in disarray and change their minds on the fly. Trump is a constant whether you like it or not which is why many Dem voters have changed to Republican.
        
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        September 25, 2020 9:47am
      - amospicton
        
        Seriously – any party AOC belongs to is hardly ‘centre-right’. Clinton maybe, possibly even Obama, but not now. I think you’ll find also that Trump has started no new wars, is bringing the troops home and is taking on the military/industrial complex. My point really is that the Dems are socially and economically liberal and the Republicans conservative on both counts. The rest of the West is full of social liberals who are economically conservative. We have no natural home in US politics.
        
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        September 25, 2020 10:02am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Trump is not ‘bringing the troops home’. The US has more military personnel overseas now than in 2016.
        
        3 6
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        September 25, 2020 11:22am
    - oldfella
      
      Socially liberal but financially conservative.
      Isn’t that how DPF describes himself?
      
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      September 25, 2020 11:07am
    - Batman
      
      Amospicton: the Democrats have been more than matched by the Republican party firstly being captured by ultra-conservative religious factions, and then a hostile takeover by the Trump brain worms virus. Consequently both parties have veered apart.
      
      I would note that the USA is significantly more conservative than most other western countries. So the Republicans are more right wing economically than ACT in NZ and about as socially conservative as the NC’s, and the Dems sit economically by National and socially near Labour.
      
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      September 25, 2020 12:12pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Mike, are you saying National is corrupt like the Democrats? Don’t be shy, spit it out
    
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    September 25, 2020 8:49am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      No more corrupt, certainly, but probably less so.
      
      6 18
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      September 25, 2020 9:08am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Your thoughts on the NZ First foundation? The rent ‘rebate’ for electoral offices? Jamie Lee Ross spoutings?
        
        7 2
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        September 25, 2020 9:25am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Yeah, those are instances of corrution, too. Fortunately, that kind of political corruption is not as entrenched here as in the US.
        
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        September 25, 2020 10:38am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    National in 2020 are the Democrats about in 2000. The US Democrats in 2020 are closer to our Greens, but with a bigger share of the vote: rich, ideological, urban professional elites, alongside poor people and “minorities,” uniting to destroy those in the centre with radical policies that will mostly only affect this target group.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:18am
  - Nickc2
    
    Another Fraser House press release Mike?
    
    3 6
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    September 25, 2020 9:25am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Hahahaha. Nice one centurion – like it, like it.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:59am
Tony Stuart

RNZ is reporting on whether a claim made by Judith Collins on Tuesday night is factual. After referring it to AAP’s factchecker, they have concluded:

The verdict: Somewhat true – A part or parts of the claim are accurate but there is also a problem or inaccuracy

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/426868/fact-check-has-state-housing-wait-list-increased-under-labour-coalition

Collins claimed the state house waiting list was now at 20,000, with 400 people a month being added to it. She also stated that when National left office in 2017 there were 5000 people on the list.

AAP has concluded the “problem or inaccuracy” is that there were 5844 people on the list as at 31 October 2017. They have also concluded that the current list has 19,438 people on it as at 31 July 2020. As 900 people were added to the list in July, there may well be more than 20,000 by now!

There certainly seems to be a degree of nitpicking here, given that Collins’ claim was certainly in the ballpark. Whatever the numbers, an increase of more than 13,500 in less than three years is an indictment on the Ardern administration.

As a footnote, I do wonder what AAP would make of Ardern’s claims that child poverty has improved under her watch, when the number of children in “material hardship” has increased.
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September 25, 2020 8:12am
- amospicton
  
  Agreed Tony – the measures she uses for child poverty are frankly ridiculous because they’re relative to the average wage. By that measure very poor countries with less inequality (because everyone’s poor) score better than NZ. By reducing incomes at the top she somehow is improving child poverty by this metric. Lies, damned lies and statistics…..
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:16am
- rockape
  
  They have fact checked the PMs claim and found she lied. It was reported on yesterday. Checkout Newshub yesterday re child poverty claim misleading.
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:27am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Here’s the Newshub link
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/09/nz-election-2020-jacinda-ardern-s-debate-claim-on-child-poverty-fact-checked-as-misleading.html
    
    Has RNZ broadcast this piece of misleading info from our PM?
    
    Remember she has all the resources and staff to fact
    check…..
    Woops, I forgot… they are all spinmeisters.
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:01am
  - Piniwi
    
    But rockape lets not forget that the only thing the PTPM did to help reduce child poverty was change the measures by which is assessed. A means to muddy the outcome to offer more room for “plausible deniability”. Even the expensive “Families Package” barely improved it by less than 20,000. When the cancelled tax cuts would have reduced it by 50,000 while also letting 1.4 million taxpayers keeping more in their pockets. Meanwhile tax cuts and child poverty remain sensitive areas for Labour still struggling address.
    
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    September 25, 2020 2:34pm
- hullkiwi
  
  Tony, the story about Judith and Jacinda was on Newshub last night and Garner raised it this morning on the AM show.
  
  He repeated the line that Judith saying that the waiting list had gone up and was now over 20,000 “was somewhate true”, this is because the current waiting list is now 19,450 odd, not actually 20,000.
  
  As for Jacinda’s claim child poverty had reduced, Not True. It was found, of Jacinda’s 9 measures, 7 had actually got worse in 2018, and today the measures are such that any statistical movement is such that it is not possible to determine whether child poverty has been reduced. So, it was deemed Jacinda was “being misleading” when she said child poverty had reduced.
  
  If Jacinda is still PM after 17/10/2020, my bet is we will not hear about child poverty or wellbeing budgets because it will impair her legacy. Much easier to wear a hijab and unveil a plaque in Christchurch.
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:27am
  - rockape
    
    When I flew a desk I had 3 trays on my desk mail in, mail out and Too Difficult. Has Jacinda filed her child poverty plans in the Too Difficult tray?
    
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    September 25, 2020 8:50am
    - tf78
      
      Too difficult file is the waste paper basket.
      
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      September 25, 2020 9:02am
      - Tall Man
        
        Where ardern will be filed soon enough.
        
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        September 25, 2020 10:36am
  - Flossie
    
    I though I heard Garner say Judith was saying the housing list had gone up BY 20,000. I was pretty sure she’d said gone up TO 20,000.
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:13am
- john1234
  
  It’s been done and Cindy found to be FOS as per.
  
  https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/arderns-debate-claim-on-child-poverty-fact-checked-as-misleading/ar-BB19n6j2?li=BBqdg4K
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:35am
- artemisia
  
  19,438 on the waiting list at 31 July 2020. Over 900 added in that month. Nearly 2 months on, and in the current environment, what are the chances the waiting list will now be under 20,000. I suggest no chance.
  
  Maybe Ms Collins has more up to date information? Certainly MSD and HUD have at least finalised August numbers and must be close to publishing them. They will certainly update that key number daily.
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:47am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Fact checkers are full of shit and biased to the left
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:51am
- Loddenthinks
  
  A bit like Winston declaring that the reported $18,000 he repaid the state, after incorrectly claiming the single man’s amount for several years, was “demonstrably false”, “markedly different” and “far too high”.
  
  The actual amount he repaid? $17,936.43. So the figure given was 99.65% accurate, or to be fair to Winston, it was over stated by a mammoth 1/3 of 1%.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:11am
Yvette

The imam of Al Noor Mosque has called for new laws that “draw a clear line between freedom of speech and hate speech”.

“No-one should be discriminated for their religion and so it makes sense that we add this to the suite of other things that we say it is just not okay to discriminate [against] people over,” Ardern says. [1] I imagine “over” should be “ever”

Destiny’s Brian Tamaki ‘strongly denounces’ use of Islamic Call to Prayer for victims of the Christchurch terror attacks
“Out of the Islamic prayer ‘Allah is the only true God. There is none worthy of being worshipped except Allah’.” [2]

To followers of Jesus Christ, and other religions, the Islamic call to Prayer (Adhan) is obviously exclusive and discriminatory.

Of course several of the Ten Commandments are also rather discriminatory –
1 – You shall have no other gods before Me.
2 – You shall make no idols.
7 – You shall not commit adultery.

How will Ardern and her followers words their freedom of speech laws to accomodate never discriminating?

I believe the Imam of Al Noor Mosque should in fact be grateful Ardern and Little have not yet delivered – as is the case on almost everything they have promised – on changes to speech laws, as there may be many things he will be prevented in future from saying.

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/09/imam-of-al-noor-mosque-calls-for-new-hate-speech-laws.html
[2] https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/destinys-brian-tamaki-strongly-denounces-use-islamic-call-prayer-victims-christchurch-terror-attacks
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September 25, 2020 8:13am
- fernglas
  
  I believe that people who believe in God are superstitious and narrow-minded, regardless of which religion they pursue. Would an expression of that belief contravene discrimination on the grounds of religion?
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:26am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    My thoughts – if you need Religion to lean on, you are not a strong person
    
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    September 25, 2020 8:53am
    - Nukuleka
      
      What a shallow and narcissistic statement.
      
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      September 25, 2020 9:17am
      - wimpston peeeders
        
        Yet very true.
        
        3 4
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        September 25, 2020 11:05am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I have never been ‘christened’ and I stand on my own two feet
        
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        September 25, 2020 1:51pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      We’re all leaning on something, be it God or anything else.
      
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      September 25, 2020 9:29am
    - Bob
      
      There is a significant percentage of the NZ population ‘leaning’ on the motivated hard working percentage of the population for their lifestyle needs.
      I believe that the figure is about 35 – 40 %
      
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      September 25, 2020 10:34am
    - Tall Man
      
      I certainly could not be regarded as a religious person but I do know some and I would not say they “leaned” upon their religion merely applied some of the tenents of their belief.
      
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      September 25, 2020 10:35am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      None of us are strong but Christ can strengthen all.
      
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      September 25, 2020 10:35am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    No, it would not. An exhaiortation to murder anyone with religious beliefs might though.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:07am
    - mark15
      
      That’s already illegal.
      
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      September 25, 2020 9:26am
    - NoFax
      
      Which is already covered in the law now – so what needs to change?
      
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      September 25, 2020 9:43am
    - Tall Man
      
      Stating a woman doesn’t have a penis has been defined as hate speech yet that comment contains no exhortation.
      
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      September 25, 2020 10:20am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    “ To followers of Jesus Christ, and other religions, the Islamic call to Prayer (Adhan) is obviously exclusive and discriminatory.”
    
    And to agnostics and atheists.
    
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    September 25, 2020 9:15am
    - Lance
      
      In countries where Islam is dominate, there is an extremely loud “call to prayer” at 4:00am.
      Is speaking against that wee cultural practice to be considered a hate speech?
      
      Sure churches have bells but they need to be a bit later in the day.
      
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      September 25, 2020 12:34pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    fernglas,
    I would add a caveat to your belief. For some people, belief in and accountability to principles and a power greater than them, stops them from causing havoc. So long as the principles are good principles. For example a hardened criminal who had did whatever he felt like doing, to “find” Christ and Christianity, and be accountable, is a step forward.
    
    For other people, who have learned self responsibility and are able to live according to right and wrong and a moral code, living life by Christianity would be a step backward. In this case the person is living accountable to themselves and the conscious principles and values they own.
    
    (1) At the bottom of the scale of responsibility Tyrants are never accountable to anyone. They are motivated by their shadow self, the un-inspected unconscious. They have no self awareness. If something irritates them, it is not their fault. They believe the world will be a better place one they are no longer irritated. They seek to change the outer world instead of themselves. They want to control others so that they are not irritated. It is classic projection in that they see their own faults in others.
    
    (2) Further up the scale, they may be accountable to a belief or a God, so long as that belief does NOT include aspects of (1). Killing NON believers is not a good religion and the religion itself is type (1), and created in the past by a type (1).
    
    (3) Further up the responsibility scale again, they are accountable to themselves, their own conscience, their own values and principles.
    
    You might think that religious tyrants are case (2). They are not. They are case (1), they just use religion as an excuse, and cherry pick their religion to justify their actions. As stated the religion itself may have been created/modified by a (1)
    
    Hitler was a case (1). Jacinda is a case (1). The fictional characters, Star Trek’s Jean-Luc Picard and Kathryn Janeway would be a good examples of case (3).
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:04am
  - Local Miller
    
    Down ticks because of your calling me narrow minded, (and SO for calling me “not strong”) but I will defend your right to say these things, even if they are not true.
    It would be interesting to find out why you feel thin way about Christians. do you think it was weak for the Christians in Roman times to willing be thrown to the lions and burned like candles by Nero because they refused to give up their faith? Or in more recent times to be persecuted in places like Russia and China? Or the many Christians who risked their lives to save Jews in Nazi Germany weak?
    Do you think people like Robert Boyle, Isaac Newton, Johanness Kepler, Alessandro Volta, CS Lewis, Michael Faraday, Charles Babbage, Wernher von Braun,… were narrow-minded?
    Have a look here for some of the well known Christians just in Science and Technology and then lots talk again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christians_in_science_and_technology
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:35am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    I used to believe this too.
    
    Until I realised how narrow-minded and superstitious the new green movement is.
    
    A great man once said that once people stop believing in God, they will believe in anything.
    
    Can’t say I much like Christians – well maybe traditional High Anglican”Muscular Christianity” – from back when Anglicans believed in God, or Catholicism, pre Vatican 2, and before they elected a communist Pope.
    
    But I intensely dislike the new puritans of the left.
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:39am
- KevO'Brien
  
  There will be other strong denunciations about Muslims and prayer if this Foolish COL continue.
  
  Does Ardern want to start a sectarian religious war in New Zealand?
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:29am
  - hullkiwi
    
    No she wants no religious hate speech. She is so
    foolish, that she does not realise the animosity she is engineering within the majority of New Zealanders by pandering to a minority.
    
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    September 25, 2020 8:36am
    - Jack5
      
      A minority of 2 per cent or less.
      
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      September 25, 2020 5:59pm
  - Paulus
    
    Have all those who came for free (Taxpayer) to New Zealand for the Tarrant sentencing gone home yet, or are some I understand still here getting visas to stay ?
    Didn’t Cindy say something about that ?
    
    4 1
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    September 25, 2020 11:07am
  - Nickc2
    
    It has fast become apparent that she’ll do anything to retain power.
    
    5 2
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    September 25, 2020 1:04pm
- Swifty
  
  Bloody hell Yvette.
  
  “1 – You shall have no other gods before Me.”
  
  Is that God admitting that there ARE other gods?
  
  🙂
  
  11 2
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  September 25, 2020 8:35am
  - Yvette
    
    Swifty, “Bloody hell Yvette” – why. I had nothing to do with it.
    Consider yourself lucky – thank God – that Moses could only manage to carry two tablets of stone back down Mt Sinai, or you might have had more.
    
    9 1
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    September 25, 2020 8:54am
    - Swifty
      
      God administering to us our medicine, in tablet form?
      
      🙂
      
      7 0
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      September 25, 2020 9:08am
    - mark15
      
      Do you know why there are ten commandments?
      Apparently when Moses learnt they were free,he said he’d take ten.
      
      7 2
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      September 25, 2020 9:28am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Jehovah was being quite generous there, Swifty. He didn’t say anything about having no other gods “after me”!
    
    7 4
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    September 25, 2020 9:06am
    - Jimmy White
      
      “Thou shalt have no other gods before Me” (one of the Ten Commandments, Exodus 20:2 ).
      and
      The Lord said “Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.” (Isaiah 43:10)
      
      0 3
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      September 25, 2020 11:20am
  - JackRabbit
    
    And who would know that 2000 years later Jacinda would use a similar line. “We are the single source of truth”.
    
    12 2
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    September 25, 2020 9:33am
    - Jimmy White
      
      Truth is written by the winners
      
      1 2
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      September 25, 2020 11:21am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Truth is practised by the winners, and obvious for most to see. Losers have to state they have they have the truth because they are unable to practise it.
        
        1 2
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        September 25, 2020 11:43am
- Sofia
  
  Should the Maori haka (breath on fire), accompanied with protruding tongue (pukana) relating to anticipated cannibalism or, with the rolled eyes, reflecting placing an enemy’s head on a stake, not be considered a form of “hate speech”?
  
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  September 25, 2020 9:12am
  - burt
    
    Absoludely.
    
    13 2
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    September 25, 2020 9:38am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Looks like Hitchens was right – God is not great, and religion poisons everything.
  
  6 3
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  September 25, 2020 10:18am
- Raphael
  
  The price of Freedom of Speech is that the person whose views you find most objectionable and extreme is also allowed to express them.
  
  Defending the right to Free Speech means defending the speech I find repugnant, because I am not going to try and silence speech I agree with.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:43am
Maggie Pie

We were sat there last night watching the late news.
It led with the PM’s visit to Christchurch. My partner made the astute observation that it was just as well the crazy aussie never had a snitch on Nudists.
44 6
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September 25, 2020 8:16am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Your partner clearly needs help!
  
  19 1
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  September 25, 2020 8:18am
  - hullkiwi
    
    I think he was referring to she who believes she must be culturally intune with the victims. Just imagine that as a sight?
    
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    September 25, 2020 8:33am
    - amospicton
      
      Which is just about the definition of cultural appropriation surely??? Or does that only apply to those who aren’t of the left?
      
      12 1
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      September 25, 2020 8:49am
      - alwyn
        
        Cultural appropriation is only by the right, and white members of our society.
        I have complained regularly that Maori groups should not play music on a guitar. They are stealing the cultural treasures of my Spanish ancestors.
        They should be banned from playing any instruments that were not in use in New Zealand prior to European settlement.
        I believe these included ” included various types of flutes, wooden trumpets, percussion instruments and bull-roarers.”. They didn’t include the guitar though.
        
        8 2
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        September 25, 2020 10:18am
- Local Miller
  
  Now I’m going to have nightmares for weeks, this is not a sight I can scrub from my mind.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:40am
Fisiani2

The election is three weeks tomorrow and walking through central Wellington you would not have known it was coming. No talk at coffee time. No real interest. Turnout may be surprisingly low this time.
22 1
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September 25, 2020 8:21am
- Local Miller
  
  Interesting, we had a “back to the office” tea the other day, and all the talk was about how useless Liebour are, and everyone hopes NZ has enough sense to vote them out. They also all recognize that Liebour are essentially trying to buy votes.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:43am
artemisia

TOP’s Mr Simmons red faced after his electorate material spelt its name wrong. Not his mistake.

Dolly did it.
16 1
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September 25, 2020 8:27am
- hullkiwi
  
  He is not the only one, just ask Simon “Brigdes”, a candidate in Tauranga.
  
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  September 25, 2020 8:45am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  I thought it was Teddy?
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:40am
Ruawai

Scary stuff if Labour gets in and brings in new Hate Speech laws, our freedom of speech will be less free.

This quote from Imam Gamal Fouda “freedom of speech becomes hate speech and hence turns into hate crime”

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/09/imam-of-al-noor-mosque-calls-for-new-hate-speech-laws.html
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September 25, 2020 8:30am
SmokerGuy

Was anyone else disgusted with Arderns politicisation of the mosque attacks by unveiling a plaque during an election campaign? She could’ve done it anytime but decides to do it now to try and get more votes. Disgraceful!
55 2
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September 25, 2020 8:39am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Publicity junkie – she can not help it
  
  31 2
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  September 25, 2020 8:55am
- Michael Duke
  
  Well she delayed closing the border for Covid to try and get the March 15th hugfest across the line so why are you surprised?
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:12am
- Ceejay
  
  I suspect she doesn’t see a distinction between her role as Prime Minister and her role as a political candidate.
  
  Everything she does in the one role is designed to enhance her prospects in the other.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:37am
  - cmm
    
    Time for some big picture thinking.
    
    She’s not interested in NZ politics. This is just an annoying stepping stone for her political career.
    
    #CinD4UN!
    
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    September 25, 2020 11:45am
- cmm
  
  It’s not her fault that it took them exactly 18 months and 1 week to make the plaque.
  
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  September 25, 2020 11:44am
- hullkiwi
  
  SmokerGuy, to feel properly offended. You have to say:
  “I’m offended that Jacinda has weaponized the Christchurch mosque attacks, by culturally appropriating the hijab for such blatant political purposes”.
  
  There that should be sufficiently over the top, to show you are offended/upset by it.
  
  Me on the other hand, I wouldn’t expect anything less of Jacinda.
  
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  September 25, 2020 3:45pm
curry4me

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/09/23/senate-releases-damning-report-of-hunter-biden-foreign-payments-and-influence-sales-money-hookers-and-bribes/

No Potential Corruption Here.

Senators Johnson, and Grassley have released a report on the Biden familys links to foreign
Entities. There may be some indication of corruption. Who’d have thunk it? A US diplomat raised
 Concerns about the Burisma job in 2015. Hunter Biden received a $3.5 million wire transfer from Elena Baturina. Ms. Baturina is the wife (widow) of the former mayor of Moscow. Hunter Biden also moved millions of dollars from his law firm to James Biden’s and Sara Biden’s firm. Upon being questioned about the transaction, Sara Biden refused to provide supporting documentation and information to more clearly explain the activity. The bank subsequently closed the account.
15 2
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September 25, 2020 8:40am
- Cantabrian
  
  And, as usual, the MSM ignore the report. Biden can do no wrong!
  
  5 3
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  September 25, 2020 9:27am
  - Batman
    
    Because the report is full of Russian-fed disinformation and the two Senators have lapped it up like good little toadies.
    
    It’s about as credible as the Benghazi farce.
    
    3 5
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    September 25, 2020 1:40pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      No, no, no, Batman.
      Senate Intelligence Committee reports that Russia interfered in the 2016 election to favour Trump = fake news
      Two senators release report alleging questionable financial transaction by Hunter Biden = OMG major scandal!
      
      3 2
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      September 25, 2020 2:11pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Given the paid for partisan origins of the Steele Dossier used to justify surveillance of the ztrump campaign and worse, to deliberately damage US Russia diplomacy, I would think you would be best to lie low on this matter Batman.
      
      Did you see that Danchenko, the primary source for many of the allegations in that dossier was investigated by the FBI in 2009-11 on suspicion of being a Russian agent ? Not that Danchenko originated all the salacious stuff, quite a bit was simply made up by Fusion GPS, and yet given considerable weight for some reason by the FBI and Mueller. Odd, because both of those entities knew just how sketchy the origin was (January interview with Danchenko confirmed that not only was most of the “information” just drunken bar talk, but that the most salacious “pee tape” info was from an anonymous phone call incorrectly attributed to Sergi Millian – incorrect because he was under surveillance at the time and no such call noted).
      
      The payment of the $3.5M is documented, and is true, as is the payments by the Chinese billionaire, including the statutory bank declarations of their purpose which are, on the face of it, false. That is, Hunter claimed that $1.4M was for legal representation in a trial, yet neither he nor anyone in his firm appeared in any way in that trial.
      
      I’m sure that the narrative the left wants to put about is that this is “Russian disinformation”, but that simply won’t fly in the face of the documented evidence. The simple truth is that Hunter was Joe’s bagman.
      
      2 3
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      September 25, 2020 2:18pm
      - virtualmark
        
        So the source for a report on what Russian intelligence was doing was someone who worked in Russian intelligence? What a surprise. I mean, really, I’m shocked.
        
        And now, in breaking news just to hand, the source for our report on dairying is a farmer. Wow.
        
        The Hunter allegations are a scam, engineered by Russian intelligence, and you are falling for the scam. Like all those who bought Trump debt, Trump steaks, Trump university courses etc etc … you are a naive mark for a conman wearing orange makeup and a diaper.
        
        3 1
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        September 25, 2020 2:37pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byW1GExQB84

Covid Vaccine Logistics Issues.

Assuming a vaccine is available by the end of the year, there are some
Logistics problems involved. The vaccine has to be kept in special cold storage. There are not as many of these as needed. Special containers might be made. There are not as many freight planes available. Numbers are down about 20%. Passenger plane flights are down more than 80%. They used to carry medicine. Then there is the question of
Who gets it first.
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September 25, 2020 8:40am
- virtualmark
  
  RNA vaccines (like Modernas and Pfizer’s) will need to be stored at very cold temperatures, like -70C in some cases.
  
  But other vaccines under development but likely to be available 3-6 months later (all going well) will be able to be stored at fridge temperatures.
  
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  September 25, 2020 9:39am
  - curry4me
    
    virtualmark: Yes, that’s what the article said.
    
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    September 25, 2020 7:34pm
DRHILL

So I see Extinction Rebellion will be doing a protest from top of Auckland down to Wellington via Diesel Vehicles (As the AM Show said, not by electric).

Just shows me they don’t have any conviction – few years back when the Foreshore and Seabed was an issue the Hokoi to Wellington marched there.

Also can’t wait to see how many covid cases will pop up next week because of them.
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September 25, 2020 8:41am
- Southtop2
  
  I happily drive a diesel – doing my bit for the environment. the extra billion trees are going to need the CO2 to ensure their health.
  
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  September 25, 2020 9:15am
- hullkiwi
  
  DRHILL, if you want a good laugh, you need to encounter the Extension Rebellion mob in London. Hypocrites the lot of them. We were in London last October when they were protesting every day.
  
  A number of them were rent a mob NHS nurses, many of them carried the latest 4G phones, iPads etc. We saw any number of latte sipping mums made up with high end make up and fashion accessories sporting Extinction Rebellion badges etc.
  
  And suggest to any of them that the solution was depopulation of the world and they would look at you blankly. Showing they dont understand the issues at all.
  
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  September 25, 2020 3:54pm
Happychappy

Is it funny that Jacinda Ardern has to bleat about holding National’s new Farming policy in disdain because it doesn’t suit her agenda. Now how Jacinda can even attempt to talk about disdain she should look back at the sexual misconduct behavior of a few Labour senior members and the inquiry she
Jacked up to throw interns under the bus when she promised to look after them and get justice for what had happened and even more serious the perpetrator was a senior staff member out of her office. Now that is disdain and far more dangerous than the National Farming Policy that she believes will take NZ back decades.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12367723
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September 25, 2020 8:41am
- Swifty
  
  It is nothing compared to Labour’s policies and Fair Pay Agreements – they will take us back to the stone age.
  
  New Zealanders don’t know what they’re letting themselves in for.
  
  Unions and the Labour Party dictating industry pay rates, conditions and entitlements. Yep, that’ll end well.
  
  22 1
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  September 25, 2020 9:13am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Minimum wage up, more taxes, more public holidays. Screw those rich prick small businesspeople already working themselves into an early grave. And if they do happen to get to 65, increase the retirement age. That’ll learn ’em, the f*ckers!
    
    11 1
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    September 25, 2020 10:26am
    - Swifty
      
      What gets me is when Labour trumpet that “under their government wages have gone up….” and you think “Oh, that’s good, I wonder exactly what they’ve done to allow businesses to do better, become more productive and in turn pay their employees more?”
      
      And then you realise they’ve actually done nothing at all. Nothing WHATSOEVER.
      
      All they’ve done is legislate that firms must pay their employees more (through gender pay agreements, minimum wage rates and living wage agreements etc).
      
      And then they have the cheek to lecture us about sustainability!!!
      
      What the hell is sustainable about driving companies to the wall and destroying jobs?
      
      5 1
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      September 25, 2020 10:51am
    - Paulus
      
      Minimum wages equivalent is double that of the Superannuants weekly stipend.
      And most on minimum wage get additional taxpayer funds as well.
      Superannuants get winter fuel top up for part of the year – last payment one next week.
      
      2 1
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      September 25, 2020 2:22pm
    - Bullion
      
      Don’t worry, with National not paying into the super fund they will push age of super up so those hard working small business people can retire at 67.
      
      Labour are not going to do that.
      
      1 0
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      September 25, 2020 4:29pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    That’s what got Labour Evicted in 1975.
    These fiscal clowns are too ignorant to be aware of the danger they would bring. Ideology is not a recipe for action.
    
    6 1
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    September 25, 2020 10:42am
- Bob
  
  Adern has already, and will continue to if reelected TAKEN NZ BACK DECADES, to somewhere about the 1960’s union controlled economy.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:38am
PaulP

If Aucklanders are meant to “take their restrictions with them” as Ashley Bloomfield has said yet again how is Jacinda able to be with groups of more than ten people given she lives in Auckland?

It would also apply to Judith.
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September 25, 2020 8:44am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Do as I say, not as I do. Hypocrite
  
  19 2
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  September 25, 2020 8:57am
- Tall Man
  
  To be honest I don’t see Judith as a “random hugger”.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:16am
Centrist

Sad news about Dean Jones. He was a fine cricketer.
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September 25, 2020 8:48am
- Tony Stuart
  
  He was one of those Australians we loved to hate. But we only hated him because he was so bloody good!
  
  59 is far too young to be dying; rest peacefully Dean Jones.
  
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  September 25, 2020 9:00am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    There’s been plenty of Aussies that are bloody good but also deeply unlikeable – think Warner, Matthews, Healey, Simmonds, Gilchrist, even Warne. Dean Jones was a bloody good cricketer, but also a bloody good bloke. Never took the aggression he brought to the game too far, and by all accounts really good company afterwards.
    
    RIP Deano.
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:33am
    - virtualmark
      
      I don’t know that I’d put Gilchrist in a “hard to like” category. I always thought he was very fair and had great sportsmanship.
      
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      September 25, 2020 1:49pm
Ipanema69

I see Todd Muller has a piece in the Herald (paywalled) regarding his issues with Anxiety.

I can completely sympathize with his condition. I have previously suffered from Anxiety & Depression (which most medical professionals view as being two sides of the same coin). I still take medication to this day despite being asymptomatic for more than ten years.

The only real comment that I would make is that in my view the most important thing in life is looking after yourself and your loved ones. The job that you do is very much a factor. I think Todd needs to consider that if National wins he will almost certainly be a government minister which is for any competent & diligent person a pretty high stress job. I hope Todd has fully considered the implications of this on his health.
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September 25, 2020 9:00am
- BAM
  
  He’ll be ok.
  I don’t think Todd has a mental illness
  
  The issue was that he went beyond his ceiling and found himself in a role he just couldn’t do, realised that and mentally broke down.
  
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  September 25, 2020 9:20am
  - Tall Man
    
    That’s how I see it as well and also at the top, you don’t have many “minding your back” … rather “sharpening their knives”…
    
    3 1
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    September 25, 2020 10:14am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    he was a cocky indian that thought being chief was easy.
    the muller takeover was nationals biggest failure in 15yrs
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:28am
    - Tall Man
      
      While I am currently a National supporter, I would always append a statement like that with “so far” 😉
      
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      September 25, 2020 5:17pm
  - Jack5
    
    Muller’s coup just before an election, hurt the National Party.
    
    Why has he edged back into the headlines in the run-up to the election.
    
    Is Muller trying to help Collins, or is someone using him in manoeuvres for another coup if National’s election result is poor?
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:42am
- Loddenthinks
  
  I think he’ll be fine. Being a Minister and being the Prime Minister (or leader of the Opposition) are two very different things.
  
  It was the relentless scrutiny and criticism from the media that blind-sided him, and being only a second-term MP he just wasn’t emotionally prepared for what can only be described as an onslaught. It started with the MAGA cap, which he didn’t handle well, and went rapidly downhill from there.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:38am
iMP

If the Human Right Commission can formally reply that Julie Anne Genter’s rant about “Old White Men” should lose their jobs, was neither ageist, racist or sexist; and no-one has ever been prosecuted by the Police under the Electoral Act, why would “Hate Speech” legislation have any more veracity? OH, SILLY ME! Trendy and Fashionable Wokeness, of course.
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September 25, 2020 9:03am
- Flossie
  
  I really had JAG pegged as an”old white woman”. But of course that gender thing makes all the difference I guess.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:18am
Catgurl13

Jacinda wearing that hijab last night was so embarrassing to say the least. Why was she even wearing it along with Megan wearing hers?. It is not expected of a non Muslim woman to wear a head covering when meeting with Muslims outside. Only if you enter a Muslim mosque it is expected that women cover their heads. Jacinda and Megan wore theirs for no reason only to appear to be fitting in with Muslims at a plaque laying ceremony. It’s very sickening and sad to see we have a PM selling out our country,and pretending to represent our majority. She doesn’t!!. What a couple of idiots they were. Vote them out now!!!
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September 25, 2020 9:07am
- burt
  
  I wonder how proud she felt to wear the symbol of female subjugation.
  
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  September 25, 2020 9:37am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  The majority of celebrities and politicians are not “us.”
  
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  September 25, 2020 9:38am
  - Tall Man
    
    Nor are we them …. Thank god.
    
    5 2
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    September 25, 2020 10:12am
- JFAP
  
  By contrast, Helen Clark opted not to wear “appropriate” clothes when meeting the pope.
  
  7 1
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  September 25, 2020 10:05am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Remember her being criticised for wearing trousers to a state banquet?
    
    5 2
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    September 25, 2020 11:18am
    - burt
      
      Yes, she refused to wear a skirt and that divided people. But on the upside, nobody thought it was justification for killing her.
      
      4 1
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      September 25, 2020 11:47am
    - burt
      
      Can you tell us how it’s OK that Muslim woman are required to wear a hijab and how it was OK for Clark to wear trousers ?
      
      1 3
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      September 25, 2020 11:48am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        They are both okay if the wearers of those respective garments are fine with it. Is that not obvious enough to you?
        
        3 3
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        September 25, 2020 11:54am
      - burt
        
        Sure it’s obvious.
        
        The question was also obvious: I’ll add a highlight and add two extra extra word for clarity.
        
        Can you tell us how it’s OK that Muslim woman are required to wear a hijab and how it was OK for Clark to choose to wear trousers ?
        
        So there is no doubt.
        
        Do you see any contradiction between supporting Clark having a choice and accepting that Muslim woman regularly don’t ?
        
        3 2
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        September 25, 2020 2:24pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        You might not have noticed that there are millions of muslim women around the world who do not wear hijabs.
        
        2 3
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        September 25, 2020 2:28pm
      - Jack5
        
        Milky, you overlook the compulsory aspect.
        
        I expect that it would be compulsory (either formally or informally through social pressure) for Muslim women to cover their heads at the Christchurch mosques.
        
        It was not compulsory for Jacinderella to cover her head.
        
        A key part of the secularisation of Turkey from the 1920s was the encouragement of its Muslim women to leave their heads uncovered.
        
        It was only in 2013 that Turkish women employed by the Government were again allowed to wear hijabs at work.
        
        Jacinderella in a hijab is supporting the conservative elements of Islam rather than the moderates. A bloody light weight.
        
        3 2
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        September 25, 2020 2:29pm
Saks

Over the next couple of days we will find out some real world covid transmission facts.

We have a charter flight with 86 people on it. 3 positive cases sitting up the front. How many others will test positive?

Assuming they were all wearing masks, did this help reduce further transmission on the flight?

Or did the masks stop it all together eg all these cases actually left MIQ with it, most likely due to socializing with other cases after their day 12 tests…

These cases then have 30 odd close contacts. What will the transmission rate be there? If its low, it shows that the virus poses little actual threat of mass spread.

Chances of this being a complete bullshit story to keep the masses in a state of fear?

If not, be thankful there is an election in a couple of weeks otherwise it would likely be another countrywide lockdown.
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September 25, 2020 9:12am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  could go the other way, oh look zero transmission due to masks so lets make them mandatory 24/7
  
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  September 25, 2020 9:56am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Karma is a bitch.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/viral-video-shows-woman-flipping-off-trump-supporters-then-rear-ending-another-car-in-front-of-police?
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September 25, 2020 9:22am
- Loddenthinks
  
  That’s just delicious, and shows what TDS can do to Karens.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:47am
- Raphael
  
  That’s definitely the fault of Trump and his White Extremist supporters. ?
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:48am
I remember when

Cannabis Referendum:
There seems to be an endless stream of ex-police members coming out against the “Yes” vote.
Regardless of our opinions about some police actions they have more interaction with drugs than the general public.
Know a drug testing worker who, despite the fact it will give them more work, is strongly against it.
Ex-Police and not overly hardnosed.
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September 25, 2020 9:26am
- rockape
  
  I dont know many ED nurses who would support a yes vote either! The hidden stats are many road deaths put down to drink are in fact drink/drug combination related.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:03am
- kowtow
  
  Bugger the Bobbies .
  
  I’d warrant any reasonable parent whose had a doper teen would tell ya the same thing , and they live it 24/7.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:41am
Billy Collins

Read the comments under this tweet. Numerous women saying they would divorce their husbands if they supported Trump.

https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1309199730124009472

And DPF still wants to claim that TDS doesn’t exist.
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September 25, 2020 9:34am
- All_on_Red
  
  In other news, numerous men take them up on their offer.
  
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  September 25, 2020 11:31am
- Batman
  
  Could give you an insight into just how badly Trump is now doing with women, or maybe just keep your fingers in your ears and hope for the best.
  
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  September 25, 2020 1:43pm
Catgurl13

Funny how a bar/restaurant outside Auckland featured in the news this week, publically admitted to rejecting entry of two Auckland people to their premis because of Covid reasons. Even though these two people had not been around anyone with Covid and had a never been sick from it. Yet the PM from Auckland in CHCh yesterday from Auckland was hugging strangers and and standing in the middle of a large group.of Muslims at a plaque ceremony. It’s ok if you do it in a hijab and you are the PM.
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September 25, 2020 9:36am
cmm

80,000-will-die Expert Shawn Hendy still getting airtime:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12367841
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September 25, 2020 9:37am
- NoFax
  
  I am perplex as you how this man is simply not laugh at – his predications were so inaccurate it has to make you laugh or cry.
  
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  September 25, 2020 9:46am
  - cmm
    
    Worse is how they cherry picked his reports to maximise the drama.
    
    The original reports showed pretty much the same results for no lockdown and for a hard lockdown with the sweet spot being in the middle somewhere (eg. just close schools or some such).
    
    But the 80k will die was used to justify a hard lockdown.
    
    Nor did it mention that he was modelling 400 day (yes, 13 MONTH) lockdown/control periods.
    
    This is about as far away from science as you can get.
    
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    September 25, 2020 10:48am
- Jack5
  
  Red Radio and Stuff describe Shawn Hendy as a ” Covid-19 modeller”.
  
  The University of Auckland describes the research areas of Hendy, whose field is physics, as:
  
  – Condensed matter physics
  – Computational materials science
  – Nanotechnology
  – The physics of complex systems
  – Innovation and economics
  
  Hendy’s a director of the sort-of think tank, Te Punaha Matatini, which Hendy says is a “centre of research excellence focused on the study of complex systems and networks.”
  
  The group says it “recognises and celebrates the distinct status of Maori as tangata whenua, and is committed to upholding the principles of Te Tiriti o Waitangi.”
  
  It also points out that 48 per cent of its “researchers” are women.
  
  Siouxsie Wiles is part of the group’s “executive team”.
  
  It has a kaumatua, Tom Roa, a Maori language academic at Waikato University.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:30am
  - cmm
    
    And they’re funded by the Ministry of Transport.
    
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    September 25, 2020 2:26pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Hendy’s as bad as UK’s Ferguson who programs in Fortran.
  An experts advice is only worth considering if it free of bias and tempered with wisdom and common sense. Otherwise it just political activism.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:48am
  - rangitoto
    
    Nothing wrong with good old fortran. Rubbish programs can be developed in any programming language.
    
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    September 25, 2020 11:03am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    Neil Ferguson, the scientist behind lockdown in the UK has admitted that Sweden has achieved roughly the same suppression of coronavirus as the UK without draconian restrictions.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/02/prof-lockdown-neil-ferguson-admits-sweden-used-science-uk-has/
    
    NZ is now in a deep recession due to the moronic lockdowns. With our GDP declining to 12.2% in our second quarter ?
    
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    September 25, 2020 11:26am
  - oob
    
    who programs in Fortran.
    
    One of the best developers I know codes in Fortran95 by preference. I didn’t know it was still around except perhaps in old applications in university science departments, just as Cobol hangs around in some banks.
    
    But lo! Fortran is still about and has a growing community around it. I was astonished to learn that it’s fully supported by GNU’s GCC.
    
    This developer is in his mid-twenties. When I saw his CV I literally gasped: he’d prepared it in LaTeX.
    
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    September 25, 2020 11:40am
    - Fletch
      
      The only language I can really program in is Commodore 64 (eg, PET) BASIC. Does that count? And a smattering of 6502 machine language ?
      
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      September 25, 2020 1:55pm
      - oob
        
        Fletch, coding in Assembly very much counts.
        
        The lowest most coders these days go is C.
        
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        September 25, 2020 2:42pm
    - Paulus
      
      I used Fortran in the late 1960s and was very effective at the time.
      
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      September 25, 2020 2:26pm
      - oob
        
        Well Paulus, I’m sure you’ll be happy to know some kid born in the late 90s thinks it’s the best choice now.
        
        Can you recall what system you were using Fortran on? Burroughs, Prime, PDP, Vax, ..maybe?
        
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        September 25, 2020 2:46pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      It has its uses, but really there are better higher level languages for a lot of scientific stuff. If you are doing any statistical processing, it is hard to look beyond “R”.
      
      As for COBOL, well, still around in a few places actually, we had it at one of the sites I used to support. Hung around into the 2010’s because until high speed connections to outlying places became the norm, being able to run a medium sized site over a 128 – 512 KB link was actually useful, and COBOL could do that and store data very efficiently.
      
      Being phased out now, but some of those sites have been running since nearly forever at very high reliability (like banks). Place I know is converting all their COBOL systems to a PostGRES SQL plus Java, not a project for the faint hearted, and does increase the processing horsepower needed by a factor of 100 or more, but luckily we’ve had just that sort of increase and more over the last 10-20 years.
      
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      September 25, 2020 2:29pm
      - oob
        
        Interesting post Ed. Two comments:
        
        -The key guy in R is Hadley Wickham, a Kiwi.
        
        -Postgres?! In a bank?! Wow. Postgres is awesome but I’m astonished there’s any appetite in that sector for a F/OSS DB. They’ve always seemed too risk-averse.
        
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        September 25, 2020 2:55pm
  - cmm
    
    I’m pretty sure Hendy was just using some of Ferguson’s models.
    
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    September 25, 2020 2:26pm
- Raphael
  
  The Swedish Experiment, which the world is still bashing, gives the lie to that figure.
  With double our population, Sweden with no lockdown didn’t get near that figure.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:50am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  I want to see his modeling of how many will die in the next 2yrs because of the lockdown.
  
  I now have 2 friends whose health outcomes are significantly worse due to the 1st lockdown and now the 2nd level2 delaying diagnosis and treatment. 1 just found out yesterday her 60%survival rate just dropped to under 10% pretty much terminal and goneburgers, oncologist told her had this been dealt to in april/may it wouldnt have spread (diagnosed late feb)
  F**k you cindy youve killed alot of good young ppl they just dont know it yet
  
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  September 25, 2020 11:14am
Swifty

About the hate speech issue.

When you think about it, it should really come as no surprise when newly-arrived Muslims in NZ call for blasphemy laws. And especially when those calls come from religious leaders.

Would I not be correct in saying that every Muslim who has arrived here from an Islamic-dominated country will have come from a country where criticism of Islam will be illegal and subject to severe if not indeed capital punishment – all, of course, to preserve the privileged position that Islam enjoys.

It’s what they’re used to, it’s normal for them, they have never faced such open criticism before, so really it shouldn’t be surprising for them to call for it to be established here.

I’d be curious what polling would show about the desirability of allowing the criticism of Islam when you compared the responses of new Muslims versus those who’s families have lived here 100-150 years.

One last thing, in the 12 years I’ve been posting here and, at times, ripping into Christianity, as well as across my own kitchen table, never once has any Christian called for my freedom to criticise their beliefs be outlawed or criminalised. Never once have they called for me to be punished for doing so.

Good on ya Christians.

🙂
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September 25, 2020 9:54am
- Catgurl13
  
  It’s also because Muslims are fanatical hypocrites. They are ultra conservative and controlling. On top of this in NZ they have a PM who is bowing down and giving them whatever they want to get their votes. They known the ball is in their court and they can call the shots to our sellout dumarse PM.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:23am
  - RichardX
    
    That is a sweeping generalisation made without supporting evidence.
    
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    September 25, 2020 2:38pm
- kowtow
  
  ‘Never once have they called for me to be punished for doing so.’
  
  The “west” went through several hundred years of “religious” wars to work out the notion that we should respect each others’ version of their particular heresy . I imagine the European Enlightenment was part of that process and of course we had old Voltaire with his , I don’t agree with what you say etc ; How often do we hear that said these days ? And that extends to so many spheres of modern life , the suppression of thought, ideas , opinions etc
  
  Very dangerous territory. And it’s all coming from the left with very little push back from “conservatives”.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:24am
  - Swifty
    
    A small point kowtow – it’s times like these I miss Chris Finlayson, I’m quite sure many of us don’t realise how good he was in these sorts of free speech issues in many ways.
    
    I rated the guy – and he would never have entertained the reckless endangerment of free speech that Angry Little seems happy to ram through.
    
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    September 25, 2020 11:23am
- Swifty
  
  NB: some have said that I will get my just deserts in a supposed day of judgement or ‘afterlife’.
  
  But, when around the kitchen table, that ends in a renewed round of hilarity (on my part) and more bottles being opened.
  
  🙂
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:26am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  Wonder if a muslim would get jailed for hate speech against other religions… think we all know the answer to that.
  
  also wonder if it would be illegal to mutter “fucking joho” when you go to pull in the drive and theyre pushn pamphlets under ya door?
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:33am
  - Paulus
    
    Many Maori in prison are converting from nothing to beings Muslim.
    In the US prison it is enormous and it empowers them.
    
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    September 25, 2020 2:28pm
    - Jack5
      
      Muslims have been proselytising in New Zealand prisons for quite a few years.
      
      They want the country!
      
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      September 25, 2020 6:04pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  The vast majority of speech that would likely fall foul of Little’s “hate speech laws” has come from muslims themselves. Dr Mohammad Anwar Sahib, a “religious advisor” to the Federation of Islamic Associations New Zealand, made a number of anti-Semitic and anti-Christian statements in pubic in New Zealand, and much worse in lectures still available on YouTube.
  
  Put it this way, even the uber-woke Susan Devoy condemned them.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:55am
  - Swifty
    
    Yep.
    
    “The Jews are the enemies of the Muslims”, “The Jews want to control the world”, “The Jews use the Christians to oppress the Muslims!”
    
    It was heartening to see many Muslims in NZ call out this nasty little man.
    
    Still, to be fair to the sheikh, he is Saudi-trained and his views are standard Islamic orthodoxy and are supported by all major Islamic schools and jurisprudence – his views and positions are mainstream.
    
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    September 25, 2020 11:10am
Critical Thinker

‘Trump Was Right’: Explosive New FBI Texts Detail Internal Furor Over Handling Of ‘Crossfire Hurricane’ Investigation

Newly disclosed internal FBI notes and text messages detail the extent of the FBI’s desire to take down Trump and his associates at any cost.

FBI agents tasked by fired former Director James Comey to take down Donald Trump during and after the 2016 election were so concerned about the agency’s potentially illegal behavior that they purchased liability insurance to protect themselves less than two weeks before Trump was inaugurated President.

“We all went and purchased professional liability insurance,” one agent texted on Jan. 10, 2017.

“Holy crap,” an agent responded. “All the analysts too?”

“Yep,” the first agent said. “All the folks at the Agency as well.”

Despite the overwhelming evidence that General Flynn did not lie to agents, the FBI had no legal basis to interview him, that the FBI later hid exculpatory documents from Flynn’s defense team, Flynn did not discuss financial sanctions during his phone calls with Kislyak, and the FBI agents who interviewed Flynn did not believe he lied.
https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/24/trump-was-right-explosive-new-fbi-texts-detail-internal-furor-over-handling-of-crossfire-hurricane-investigation/

#Treason

Justice is coming.
Enjoy the show ??
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September 25, 2020 9:56am
- Critical Thinker
  
  John Durham Reviewing FBI Handling of Clinton Foundation Investigation
  
  U.S. Attorney John Durham, who is investigating the FBI’s conduct in its probe of President Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign, is also probing the Clinton Foundation.
  
  The Clinton Foundation appeared to be a vehicle for former President Bill Clinton and then-Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to sell influence and access.
  
  It was widely suspected that Hillary Clinton used an illicit private email server, and destroyed her emails, to hide communications that might document the Foundation’s activities.
  
  “The Clintons … often take money from foreign entities. And that money, donated to the Clinton Foundation or paid in speaking fees, comes in amounts much larger than any campaign contribution,” Schweizer wrote, adding, “As a result, the Clintons have become exceedingly wealthy. The big question is whether taking such money constitutes a transaction. The Clintons would undoubtedly argue that it does not. The evidence in this book suggests otherwise.”
  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/john-durham-reviewing-fbi-handling-of-clinton-foundation-investigation/ar-BB19ooUG
  
  Our New Zealand government gave more than $10 million of our taxpayers money to the Clinton Foundation ?
  https://www.taxpayers.org.nz/clinton_funding_pulled
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:54am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Now do the Trump Foundation…
    
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    September 25, 2020 11:55am
    - Batman
      
      Lol this stuff has now officially entered into fanfic territory.
      
      Durham won’t find anything, and it’s already been proven that the investigation was justified.
      
      Just more inferiority complex from Magaland.
      
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      September 25, 2020 1:46pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Batman,
        
        I suspect that Barr will have the DOJ lay charges against someone in October. Not sure just who they will charge, but they will want their “October surprise”. Of course the charges will probably be completely bogus and either (a) never make it to court or (b) get thrown out of court. But that won’t happen before 3 November, which is all Barr and Trump will care about.
        
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        September 25, 2020 1:53pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Nope, not proven at all, in fact, far more correct to say that “proven NOT to be justified”.
        
        Durham has already charged one person (who has pleaded guilty to deliberately altering an email), and better get ready, there’s significantly bigger fish to be indicted.
        
        These latest texts though, show that the continuing investigation of Flynn was a political hit job intended to try to cover up the illegal spying on the Trump campaign. They knew that they would be in jeopardy if their shenanigans came to light, so they pushed to get Sessions to recuse on ludicrous grounds (met the Russian ambassador at a formal Senate function) and forced Flynn’s resignation through leaks of classified information and untruths.
        
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        September 25, 2020 2:39pm
      - Critical Thinker
        
        We now have irrefutable evidence of massive FISA court fraud ??
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqqlNmrewd4
        
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        September 25, 2020 3:49pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Did Trump delete 30000 emails? How about that, learn something new every day.
      
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      September 25, 2020 3:01pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Ah, the Buttery Males. There really should be a congessional investigation of those.
        
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        September 25, 2020 3:21pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I guess Durham is on the ‘list’ to be suicided. Happened before, will happen again
    
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    September 25, 2020 3:00pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Dude, even marijuana isn’t legal yet, let alone whatever shit you are snorting.
      
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      September 25, 2020 3:22pm
Jack5

A Spectator article exposes the distortion the Woke are spreading about European settlement of North America.

Their Leftist propaganda wave laps on New Zealand shores, with our State media and our subsidised print media disparaging Western settlement and development of this country.

Once we were proud of pioneers building a Western country. Now the State Leftists, through State TV, State Radio, and subsidised print media, try to make white New Zealanders ashamed of their history.

We aren’t even supposed to see Westernisation’s benefits in the way we recognise the way the Roman Empire brought civilisation to much of Europe.

The Spectator writer, Jeff Fynn-Paul, talks of Cultural Marxism-influenced activists who want to bring maximum embarrassment to capitalism, democracy, Western Cvilisation, and white people in general.

New Zealand isn’t immune from Cultural Marxism. A former Race Relations Commissioner is a Marxist intellectual who has written and translated Marxist works. The academic who is probably the country’s best known advocate of multiculturism, studied at a German instituion regarded as Cultural neo-Marxist, and our present Human Rights Commissioner was a Corbynist activist in Britain.

I think the Spectator allows you two articles a month free outside its paywall, and if your register, three.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-myth-of-the-stolen-country
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September 25, 2020 10:04am
- kowtow
  
  On a similar vein , the excellent Douglas Murray on the USA , but the same thing is happening here and across the west. His frightening conclusion to a very good article.
  
  “Historically speaking, such a divide will inevitably escalate into increasing violence and even civil war, unless stopped by some great unifying force that goes beyond party politics or identity. But there is no sign of such a thing on the horizon.”
  
  https://unherd.com/2020/09/can-america-hold-apart/
  
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  September 25, 2020 3:18pm
- curry4me
  
  Jack5: thanks for that. There’s also Spectator TV. You can find i on YouTube.
  
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  September 25, 2020 7:30pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING as we speak:

Trumpy may need to fill 2 seats for SCOTUS……

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EifloYuXkAAYq8G?format=jpg&name=small
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September 25, 2020 10:13am
- curry4me
  
  Maggie Pie: Plenty of pro-Trump people would be OK with that. Justice Roberts is not well liked ever since his Obamacare decision.
  
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  September 25, 2020 10:47am
Nookin

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300116480/covid19-government-warned-it-may-have-to-close-borders-with-some-countries

Just keeping an eye open for Megan Woods’ cries of racism. Something tells me that I shouldn’t hold my breath.
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September 25, 2020 10:30am
Bullion

OMG! Another hole in National’s budget.

First not understanding how Super contributions are calculated and using outdated figures – $4billion hole.

Double counting transport funding – $4 billion hole.

And now they have also miscalculated tax take from the Super Fund (NZs largest taxpayer) taking figures of estimated tax based on Super Fund with contributions which National are stopping so tax take will be cumulatively $2billion less by 2031.

And for the party of fiscal responsibility, stopping payments into Super Fund will mean its estimated to be $21billion less by 2031 (its already $26billion less because of National stopping contributions between ’09 to ’17)
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September 25, 2020 10:49am
- rangitoto
  
  The outdated figures were from a false version of the prefu published by Robberson right?
  
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  September 25, 2020 11:24am
  - Bullion
    
    The outdated figures were from the May budget, but the contributions changed by the time the prefu was released.
    
    The contributions are calculated by Treasury based on a formula set in law: https://www.treasury.govt.nz/sites/default/files/2018-02/nzsf-model-guide-dec14.pdf
    
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    September 25, 2020 11:49am
- Fletch
  
  Still, it’s not up to Labour’s $11 billion hole, as pointed out by Joyce.
  
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  September 25, 2020 1:50pm
  - Bullion
    
    National have built in less operational allowances than Labour did last election:
    https://twitter.com/Economissive/status/1306811887514918912
    
    And some of Nats costings for their transport budget are from business cases from 2017 and don’t take into account inflation since then:
    https://twitter.com/Economissive/status/1307955085540876288
    
    That adds about another $1billion hole in the budget – you add up all the holes and you are getting $11billion. Those are actual holes not around operational allowances (which Nats have less now than Lab in 2017)
    
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    September 25, 2020 4:05pm
C J Southern

Great news!

Stuff are reporting a way we can borrow as much as we want from overseas … and effectively not have to pay it back!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/300116549/heres-a-free-way-to-pay-off-governments-foreign-debt
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September 25, 2020 10:59am
- rangitoto
  
  Yay. Let’s borrow a trillion trillion and we can then buy up the whole planet.
  
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  September 25, 2020 11:05am
- Inandout
  
  CJ, get a mortgage that doesn’t need repayment..yeahhh.
  
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  September 25, 2020 11:21am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    just logged on to my internet banking, theres no edit function how do I add several 0s to my bank balance?
    
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    September 25, 2020 1:08pm
    - rangitoto
      
      Must be a bug in your bank’s software.
      
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      September 25, 2020 2:34pm
oldfella

This little ditty just popped up in an email…

“GLORIOUS WORDS FROM GLORIOUS LEADER”
I am a little hypocrite
I do not care a jot
It doesn’t bother me one bit
If honest I am not

I like to pose for selfies
For all the world to see
The social distance rules of course
Do not apply to me

I’ve thrown away my Covid mask
To whisper in your ears
A cuddle here, a snuggle there,
Come closer, please, my dears

Lean in, dear fans, and smile with me
Forget the Covid bug
You will not catch the virus
Just by giving me a hug!

For I’m the Queen of Wokeness
Of fairy dust and glitter…
And if you do catch Covid…
Please don’t mention it on Twitter!
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September 25, 2020 11:20am
Catgurl13

Should I wear surgical gown,gloves,mask and slippers when I meet my Dr?. Should I dress as a farmer riding a horse when I got to the butcher shop in PNS?. How about I dress up as a geisha when I go to the sushi shop?. Should I draw on my chin and throw on a piu piu cloak before I go to my sons high school assembly to watch Kapa Haka?…….ahhh I think I’d be getting some pretty strange looks lol. Just like a woman dressing in a headscarf who isn’t a Muslim?….or should I just dress as myself because I don’t have to pretend to be anything else?
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September 25, 2020 11:24am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Or as a nun when you go to church?
  
  It is just all dress up and larping for the vacuous Cindy’s of the world
  
  https://www.macleans.ca/multimedia/photo/the-mr-dressup-prime-minister/
  
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5421779/Justin-Trudeau-ridiculed-Indians-fake-outfits.html
  
  Maybe she and Justin can go as mighty power rangers to the next UN bunfest?
  
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  September 25, 2020 1:26pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I think what you are trying to say is the PTPM is embarrassing NZ on the World Stage
  
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  September 25, 2020 1:54pm
Durden

News from China — Offered without comment. Take this how you will.

Alibaba owner Jack Ma has been toppled from his perch as richest man in China by the owner of Nongfu— Zhong Shanshan.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-09-23/jack-ma-no-longer-china-s-richest-as-lone-wolf-s-fortune-soars

Nongfu has been in the news in NZ talking water bottling , including a visit by Zhong Shanshan China’s now richest man.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112321733/chinese-water-giant-nongfu-spring-had-a-rocky-road-to-setting-up-in-new-zealand

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/01/court-decision-favouring-chinese-water-bottler-challenged.html
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September 25, 2020 1:35pm
F E Smith

Well, this is going to make me voting for the Nats a lot tougher:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122888554/election-2020-national-again-promises-to-punish-people-who-fail-to-disclose-child-abuse

Who was the moron that thought up this ridiculous policy? While you are at it, take away the right to silence, why not? Also, why would you limit it to child abuse? Surely you should be punished if you know about other serious offending and don’t become an informer. Wouldn’t a murder or a rape, or some other heinous offence be as bad as child abuse?

I am all for punishing child abusers; lock them up for lengthy periods by all means. However, once you start getting entire families, and their friends, being prosecuted because “they must have known” you create a snowball effect. The Police are not known for either their tact nor the sensible use of their discretion. Instead, it becomes what it is probably intended to be, a blunt instrument used to create a situation of fear in families so that they go straight to the Police even when they merely suspect offending.

I’ll tell you what, why not make it an offence not to confess to any offence that you have committed? While you are at it, make it an offence not to report any offending that you are aware of. Has your child admitted to you that they have an alcohol problem and have driven whilst intoxicated? Well, off you go and report them to the Police so that they can be prosecuted, otherwise you end up in the clink yourself.

Since when did National become the party of the Stasi?
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September 25, 2020 1:37pm
- slightlyrighty
  
  The right to silence is a valid one, but it refers to self incrimination. Remaining silent during an investigation in order to protect the guilty should be prosecuted.
  
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  September 25, 2020 3:02pm
  - kowtow
    
    Ah but what investigation? A future Green administration …….
    
    Did you see Mrs Brown across the road put non approved rubbish in her recycling bin ?
    
    Failing to dob in your neighbour , a climate crime ! Think of all the Bengalis drowned by your silence.
    Heinous person.
    
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    September 25, 2020 4:53pm
  - F E Smith
    
    Oh sure, because that isn’t easy to get around:
    
    “Sir, despite the fact that I caught you with a knife in your hand and blood all over you, you are not a suspect and are therefore required by law to answer all of my questions. Failure to do so will result in your prosecution and imprisonment.”
    
    Followed by:
    
    “Once the witness had answered my questions I formed the view that he was now a suspect and gave him his rights, including his right to silence. However, of course the statement that he made whilst he wasn’t a suspect is still admissible.”
    
    The right to silence is there precisely because you never know what you might say that may incriminate you. And you don’t. But the cops do, although they won’t tell you.
    
    NZers are far too trusting of those in authority.
    
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    September 25, 2020 8:10pm
- kowtow
  
  You are quite right of course.
  This is tampering with ancient rights to pander to the baying mob.
  
  And members of that mob should reflect on how easily these dangerous precedents can and will be ex tended to other of our ancient rights and liberties, so hard won.
  
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  September 25, 2020 3:10pm
Tall Man

So the term “media whore” has been coined as being a description of someone who will manipulate events in order to get the maximum media coverage.

It has been applied to ardern here on this blog and elsewhere as it is apt.

This morning, in a thread above about ardern seeking to use the mosque placque unveiling for electioneering I used the phrase again indicating that there are those who view her as media whore. The whole comment was deleted yet I have seen numerous posts where the “offending” word has been deleted, leading to a random guessing game I imagine in some circles, but my whole comment was deleted.

This afternoon on Magic there was speculation that whole event was staged to be part of ardern’s election campaign.

Now will a mod please explain why the term does not completely apply here or am I being singled out for “special” attention?
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September 25, 2020 1:56pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  The price of being tall?
  
  The price of being right, but too soon?
  
  Or simply that one of the moderators really really doesn’t like you?
  
  Bwuhahahaaa
  
  I thought it was entirely reasonable and innocent that it would be necessary to commemorate the 18month and 8 days anniversary of a major event?
  
  Doesn’t everybody commemorate such an auspicious date 18 months and 8 days later?
  
  Surely there couldn’t possibly have been an ulterior motive? Colour me shocked!
  
  I am sure it is simply the first day the videographer could be booked. Either that or Saturn is in Uranus and the moon is auspicious.
  
  🙂
  
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  September 25, 2020 3:31pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Honestly, I don’t think it will gain her any new votes outside the Muslim community and even within it. Many Muslims are small business owners and hard workers who don’t like lazy people on welfare or the disastrous mess Labour have made of this country.
    
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    September 25, 2020 4:23pm
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      I agree, all my muslim mates tend to loathe bludgers.
      
      They aren’t that keen on SJWs either, with their strident advocacy of LGBT+++ ideology and disrespect for religion.
      
      Bwuhahahaha!
      
      Gays for Palestine! Comrade!
      
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      September 25, 2020 8:17pm
  - Tall Man
    
    As Sean Plunkett pointed out, the media fest was planned for 24/09 which would have been 5 days after an election and ardern may not have been PM so what got changed? The other issue was who paid for the plaque, if the Government then why is it being used as an election stunt?
    
    I thought he was onto something for a change 😉
    
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    September 25, 2020 5:15pm
Jack5

A British soldier who faced eight investigations over 17 years has been cleared, the Judge finding that Iraqi witnesses colluded to pervert the course of justice.

Major Robert Campbell and two other British soldiers jumped into a Basra, Iraq, dock in 2003, to save a young Iraqi man. They weren’t successful. The Iraqi’s cousin, who also fell into the dock, survived.

In 2011, Britain’s Ministry of Defence paid 100,000 pounds to the family of the man who drowned, and tried to pay a further 45,000 pounds to the one who survived. He refused to accept liability.

The official report by Baroness Hallett, a former Court of Appeal judge, found the two men “must have slipped or jumped into the water” after being caught by soldiers trying to steal electric cable.

Baroness Hallett concluded that “a number of [Iraqi] civilian witnesses” who came forward to give evidence in 2003 and again at a later criminal inquiry in 2014 to 2016 were “inherently unreliable”.

“The fact Iraqi civilians were prepared to claim falsely that they had witnessed the events leading to Shabram’s [the drowned man] death raises the question of collusion and inducement. I must consider, therefore, if there were attempts to encourage or intimidate witnesses into giving evidence that Shabram was pushed into the water by members of the British forces.”

Major Campbell and the other two British soldiers gave up the search for the drowned man only when they “were too exhausted to continue”.

Baroness Hallett said an Iraqi “fixer,” Basim Jabir (hired by the dead man’s father), was a “major player in the collusion/conspiracy”.

This is from a report in the Telegraph. The Daily Mail has a report at:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8770159/Army-hero-accused-drowning-Iraqi-teenager-2003-cleared-wrongdoing-following-witch-hunt.html
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September 25, 2020 2:05pm
rouppe

Parliament to install solar panels

Cost: $2,260,000.
Carbon saved in 10 years: 1,690 tons

That’s $1,337 per ton of Carbon.
What’s the price of a carbon credit? $30.

Typical Green economics : especially when someone else is paying for it.
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September 25, 2020 2:47pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  It does not matter what a tonne of Carbon costs, the Greens are saving you from extinction in 12 years. Greta said so, so did AOC
  
  4 2
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  September 25, 2020 3:24pm
  - RJ
    
    But who will save them from extinction in a few weeks
    
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    September 25, 2020 4:20pm
- RJ
  
  Wellington it might be better to put in wind power
  
  3 1
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  September 25, 2020 4:19pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  By green maths
  The money to that Green school should have been $250000, not $11.5mill
  
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  September 25, 2020 5:00pm
old skool reactionary

Stats out from US govt on Covid survivial rates and age

0-19 99.997%
20-49 99.98%
50-69 99.5%
70+ 94.6%

Its basically turned into a hoax now with “authorities” the world over talking about more lock downs.
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September 25, 2020 2:58pm
Surely Knott

This is being shared on facebook. Jacinderella – him and the layers. It’s a music video about how great Jacinda is. “Labour of Love.” ” Let’s keep it moving. She’s got me grooving” “She’ll get us through this – Don’t vote for Judith. ” Vote” Etc.

Does this not need a promoters statement?
https://youtu.be/9VllPnUXcoc
4 1
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September 25, 2020 3:00pm
- Inandout
  
  SK, Labour is pushing very hard in promoting themselves. Why, if they are going to ‘bolt in’ are they screaming their message?
  
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  September 25, 2020 4:56pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Jaspinda’s name is not on the list but ScoMo is.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/09/not-alone-world-leaders-endorse-president-peacemaker-donald-trump/?
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September 25, 2020 3:21pm
lifesgood

I am fed up to the back teeth with ignoramuses who live in Australia and England extolling the virtues of Jacinda. THEY HAVE NO IDEA!!! It just goes to show how powerful the left wing media is. I want to vomit every time I see “I wish she was our PM” Well folks you are welcome to her and she will probably be looking for a job very soon.
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September 25, 2020 4:18pm
Loddenthinks

Well well well well well. This will blow a few people’s minds, I’m sure. Remember how Trump was deeply skeptical of mail-in ballots, and stated (to widespread derision and mockery, and accusations of paranoia et etc the usual TDS stuff) that voter fraud would be widespread?

As mail-in voting has just started, a small number of ballots was found dumped in the trash outside a board of elections office.

There were 9 ballots. 7 of them were for Trump. The other two had been placed back in the envelope and sealed, so we don’t yet know who they were voting for. I’m going to take a guess.

Former Department of Justice official Justin Levitt said it was fine to have an investigation about this, but said it was “wildly improper, and truly unconscionable” to name the person being voted for. I disagree; I think it’s 100% relevant who they were voting for, as it pretty clearly identifies who might be dumping the ballots.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/us-attorney-battleground-pennsylvania-investigating-small-number-mail/story?id=73230513
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September 25, 2020 4:38pm
- virtualmark
  
  Calm down, it’s nothing of the sort.
  
  Here’s the letter from the US Attorney for Pennsylvania to the County official setting out what happened … https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdpa/pr/letter-luzerne-county-bureau-elections
  
  Key words … “It was explained to investigators the envelopes used for official overseas, military, absentee and mail-in ballot requests are so similar, that the staff believed that adhering to the protocol of preserving envelopes unopened would cause them to miss such ballot requests. Our interviews further revealed that this issue was a problem in the primary election–therefore a known issue–and that the problem has not been corrected.”
  
  Basically they couldn’t tell whether the envelopes contained requests for mail-in ballots or contained military votes. So some doofus opened the envelopes. It seems that when they found the envelopes contained military votes then they panicked and threw them out in the rubbish.
  
  And it’s not a Democrat plot. The person responsible (Shelby Watchilla, head of the Luzerne County Bureau of Electors) is a registered Republican and ran for the job as a Republican.
  
  Trump is just trying to scare voters. And he’s laying the groundwork for the excuses he’ll run with when he loses the election. You know it will never be Trump’s fault. His ego won’t let him accept he didn’t win, it must be someone else’s fault.
  
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  September 25, 2020 5:00pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Yes, an obvious reaction would be to panic and throw out all the votes with Trump on the ballot. Totally believable, story checks out, seems legit.
    
    Did I see a Tui billboard anywhere?
    
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    September 26, 2020 10:14am
dave_c_

So !
With regard to the ‘Covid scam’, please tell me how it is, that the media know who the ‘contacts’ of ‘contacts’, of ‘contacts’ are (almost instantaneously) ?????
I smell a rat – Who informs them that they are visiting ‘such & such a company’, and move onto ‘the next company’.
Tonights news seem to have the connections at their fingertips !
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September 25, 2020 6:08pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122893922/tot-left-alone-in-car-played-with-meth-pipe-while-dad-stole-groceries
Judging by the name the father was not maori or pacifica so his identity was published.
Bastards.
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September 25, 2020 6:39pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Seems he’s moved on from drink-driving convictions…
  http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/5277183/Drink-driver-caught-again
  
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  September 25, 2020 6:45pm

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