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November 1, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 01 November 2020

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General Debate

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mikenmildagain

Happy International Lennox-Gastaut Syndrome Awareness Day!
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November 1, 2020 8:00am
- Don Beckett
  
  Happy All Saints Day.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:06am
- Pharmachick
  
  Lennox-Gastaut is a particularly nasty form of pediatric onset epilepsy. There is nothing happy about it. I have a colleague in the UK that’s a pediatric neurologist, pretty sure they’re not celebrating right now.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:52am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    You are missing the point.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:06am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      You’ve missed the bus.
      
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      November 1, 2020 11:59am
      - sooty
        
        [Deleted by Mod. Unwarranted personal abuse.]
        
        2 0
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        December 1, 2019 12:17pm
      - Colville
        
        It was a short bus, easy to miss.
        
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        November 1, 2020 12:08pm
Tomtoddy

Apparently many rural people voted for Labour to keeep the Greens out of the decision making. Ardern has rubbed their noses in that in a rather obnoxious way.

Vote Labour and get the commies anyway.
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November 1, 2020 8:03am
- Romney
  
  So it appears. I did see that strategy being discussed on farmer forums – general opinion seemed to be ‘better dead than red.’ Part of the problem is that National remained completely silent while we were turned into pariahs, so there was a sense of nothing to lose. We’re fucked anyway.
  
  Voted Act myself. Once our free speech is gone it’s over. There’s no way back and National won’t even fight for that. Party has massive problems.
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:32am
  - peterwn
    
    “…National remained completely silent…”.
    Trouble is you cannot make a noise when you do not have a microphone.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:01am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      $50M did a lot to silence the Nats. This wasn’t a fair election but now Ardern has to pay for her success. Her performance will be priceless to match its output.
      Retribution will come when she realises that she is out of her depth and has lost control that the external world is imposing.
      
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      November 1, 2020 12:04pm
- Tomtoddy
  
  Ardern’s reasons for including the Greens in the Executive is that she is governing for all New Zealanders??? What!!!
  
  What about Seymour for Finance Minister? Collins for Justice?
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:13am
  - Okahu
    
    She isn’t stupid.
    
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    November 1, 2020 9:40am
    - Nickc2
      
      2nd opinion required!
      
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      November 1, 2020 11:51am
  - igm
    
    She is not governing for me, operating so will not be paying “F” all tax for her to squander on her lazy unemployable followers.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:08am
    - Okahu
      
      I see what you did there. Describing the 60% of the electorate who voted against your wishes as lazy and unemployable so you can justify being a tax evader.
      
      If you are so insistent on ‘code browning’ our shared society perhaps you should turn your mind to where else on this planet you could be happy. They say Kazakhstan is ‘very nice’.
      
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      November 1, 2020 1:26pm
  - doggone7
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Seymour as Education Minister selling off schooling.
    
    Collins for Justice? Well, justice was done to her in the election.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:33am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Yeah, nah. The Greens aren’t really in Government. They got sod-all from Jacinda & traded away their independence. From that perspective, it’s about as good as one could have hoped for.
  
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  November 1, 2020 2:13pm
Captain Mainwaring

So the Government is talking about extending the Parliamentary term to four years and lowering the 5% threshold.
I don’t remember them campaigning on any of this stuff. What other surprises will these incompetent muppets have in store for us?
Thanks sheeple.
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November 1, 2020 8:03am
- Mags
  
  Well, Ardern did say this was the covid election, and they did not need any policies, now they have a blank slate to fill out…
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:20am
  - JackRabbit
    
    A Covert election more likely.
    
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    November 1, 2020 11:17am
- MCos
  
  National, Labour & ACT all support the move to a four year term.
  There has been a couple of referendums on the subject. Both favoring the status quo, as referendums here almost invariably do; the euthanasia one being a very rare exception.
  Something like this requires the two main parties to agree, from what I understand a mere 50% in parliament isn’t good enough.
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:25am
  - Tall Man
    
    “A three year term for a competent government is not long enough” is the cry we often hear yet a competent government generally gets re-elected.
    
    Unfortunately New Zealand has not been endowed with many competent governments in my lifetime so I still favour a 3 year term although we may all be “well over” this lot well before 2023.
    
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    November 1, 2020 9:06am
    - MCos
      
      So your argument is that the three year term gives us the chance to replace one incompetent government with another.
      The UK has a five year term. They seem to be forever replacing exchanging incompetent governments well before their is up. How much longer will the clearly incompetent Johnson administration survive before he or his party is rolled?
      
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      November 1, 2020 11:06am
      - Tall Man
        
        Irrelevant and of no interest to us. We are a different economy, a different society and a much more welfare reliant people which allows a government to bribe it’s way into power.
        
        The sheep that voted this government will be ready for a change come 2021/22 so it will be a cold day in hell before we vote fopr 4 years of living hell potentially.
        
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        November 1, 2020 1:09pm
  - peterwn
    
    There are various ‘entrenched’ provisions in the Electoral Act which require a 75% vote of MP’s to overturn including the three year term. The provisions have legitimacy since they were passed by a 75% majority at the time. Courts in other commonwealth countries has upheld this but have signalled that if a ‘75%’ provision is passed by a simple majority, the courts would not recognised this. If it came to an issue in NZ the Supreme Court would consider these precedents and is likely to follow them.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:09am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Oh really?
    
    https://www.national.org.nz/changes-to-parliamentary-term-must-go-to-a-referendum
    
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    November 1, 2020 5:54pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The incompetents amateurs want longer terms? The relatively short term length is the only safeguard we have. List MP’s can be chosen from any wannabe agitator of negative executive quality.
  
  When is Ardern R. going to restore the law pertaining to property rights? Now, two titles are being seized by activists with her connivance. The Police have become sheep and thrown off their cloak as being sworn officers of the Law. The MP’s actions appear themselves to be unlawful.
  
  Green’s as members of the Executive? Do we want to have any farms remaining in NZ? Don’t we have an obligation to use our agricultural blessings to provide the world with food?
  Marama to become a Minister of Housing (wellness). Yikes! Who’s going to instruct her–Twyford? As a business owner would you hire people of that calibre as executives when your livelihood depends on them?
  
  This govt is turning from a farce into a disaster and will be the end of MMP.
  Govt is not about representation but action by trusted capable representatives not uni cafe society dregs.
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:27am
- redeye
  
  I think they’ll need a super majority.
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:41am
  - MCos
    
    Which there is.
    
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    November 1, 2020 9:05am
    - MCos
      
      Why all the down ticks?
      If the Nats & Labour vote together that’s more than sufficient.
      
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      November 1, 2020 11:09am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Which there isn’t. A super-majority is 75%, which is a lot more than just Labour/Green. In the meantime, National wants the idea of a four year term to go to a referendum.
      
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      November 1, 2020 5:56pm
  - peterwn
    
    Which is 75%.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:10am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      No 4 years until MMP is gone and proven competency in govt is re-established.
      
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      November 1, 2020 12:08pm
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  This is a near 60% majority government. They don’t have to ask you shit, Cap’n.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:28am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    You’re talking crap as usual Martin. Change of that nature requires a 75% supermajority.
    
    And anyway, the Greens aren’t part of the Government. And what about Jacinda’s “nuclear-free moment” of Climate Change once again being outside Cabinet? It’s just window-dressing, and a twee PR-speak slogan like Team of Five Million, Hard and Early, Year of Delivery and all the rest of the weasel words Ardern has bought with our money.
    
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    November 1, 2020 9:44am
- Justitia
  
  I would support a four year term as long as the Upper House was restored to provide a check and balance. No need to increase representation however, we could have 90 MPs and 30 Senators. And while we’re at it let’s replace the totally discredited MMP system with STV.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:47am
- doggone7
  
  Aren’t the government allowed to ‘talk about’ stuff they didn’t campaign on? I realise post-election angst is a wondrous thing but that is plain silly.
  
  Before the 2017 election they didn’t say there’d be lockdowns in the event of a pandemic. Things happen, things change, ideas arise, people knock ideas around.
  
  By the time extending the Parliamentary term discussion comes around National will be on board.
  
  Same for the 5% threshold. I believe Judith Collins was Queen of the MMP Referendum, review and recommendations from post 2011.
  
  https://elections.nz/democracy-in-nz/what-is-new-zealands-system-of-government/2012-mmp-review/
  “Summary of our recommendations from the review
  After the review, we recommended:
  lowering the party vote threshold from 5% to 4% and reviewing the new threshold after three general elections.”
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:41am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Sean Connery has passed
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November 1, 2020 8:07am
- tf78
  
  He will be missed – the best James Bond ever!
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:09am
  - Mark Carey
    
    Will remember him as Captain Marko Ramius
    
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    November 1, 2020 3:30pm
- SGA
  
  At 90 years old, I am stirred but not shaken by his passing.
  RIP 007.
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:17am
- krazykiwi
  
  Reciting “The name’s Bond. James Bond” with a vaguely Scottish but distinctly Connery accent will be my memory of him.
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:18am
  - Inandout
    
    krazy, said between a cigarette puff also.
    
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    November 1, 2020 8:55am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  The ZB news reader said he will be remembered for his role in Dr Number.
  
  I preferred him in Thunderbirds myself . . .
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:24am
  - Tall Man
    
    “Real journalists”… “Real News”…. Yeah Right.
    
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    November 1, 2020 9:08am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Highly trained and skilled no less!
      
      (or is that number less!)
      
      🙂
      
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      November 1, 2020 1:05pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Goldfinger. Gert Frobe played Auric Goldfinger brilliantly
    
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    November 1, 2020 1:52pm
- Pharmachick
  
  Today, a most famous and beloved Scot has died.
  
  In the monarchist tradition (sorry Scots nationalists, but I think for this one time [only] you might agree with me)
  
  Sean Connery (Tommy) is dead, long live Billy Connolly
  
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  November 1, 2020 5:12pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Congratulations to Marama Davidson who becomes our new Minister for the Prevention of family and sexual violence.

I hope she is outspoken and effective in dealing with these scourges on the lives of our fellow NZers.
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November 1, 2020 8:08am
- freethinker
  
  And on a scale of 0-1 where 0 is total failure and 1 is total success my money is on 0.
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:14am
- krazykiwi
  
  She could do her internship reviewing the PM’s office. Plenty of varied case material there.
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:14am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    #metoo
    
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    November 1, 2020 8:27am
  - fernglas
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    I am struggling to recall the last time a baby was beaten to death in the P M’s office. Or a female was beaten to a pulp for forgetting to get the right type of biscuit for morning tea. Or a school-age child was found with traces of methamphetamine on hair analysis. Or someone was raped for wearing a short skirt. Or forcibly tattooed with “property of the Labour Party” between her shoulder blades. But perhaps you could enlighten me? Or is that comment just another flippant piece of cheap politics at the expense of the harsh truth about the lives of many New Zealanders?
    
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    November 1, 2020 8:36am
    - softail 1450
      
      fernglass ,come on fernglass your comment about the tattoo between the shoulder blades is a dead giveaway that you are a labour party member,lighten up a bit…
      
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      November 1, 2020 9:04am
      - fernglas
        
        I do not support the Labour party, nor do I belong. However, I have seen close up all of the situations I described above, although the words were “property of the Mongrel Mob”, not the Labour party. So trivialising what should be an important role in our society for the purpose of making a cheap political statement needs to be addressed.
        
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        November 1, 2020 10:05am
      - jgw739
        
        Fernglas, you may deem it false equivalence but Labour Party policies are generally supportive of the Mongrel Mob and thier ilk. In any case, the PMs office has fairly lumpy carpet from the number of things swept under it.
        
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        November 1, 2020 6:12pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Actually, violence is violence and there was a clear case of “sexual violence” within the staff of the Prime Minister’s office. There was also a clear case of sexual violence within the labour party youth wing so the comment was rather apt or are you only worried about babies being battered and bugger the young people?
      
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      November 1, 2020 9:14am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Everything ok, fernglas? You sound a little angry.
      
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      November 1, 2020 9:34am
      - Dougal10
        
        Fernglas probably missed out on a ministerial position to a green list mp.
        
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        November 1, 2020 9:59am
      - fernglas
        
        Perhaps you should see the consequences of family and sexual violence on a day to day basis before you judge whether I am angry or simply concerned at its apparent trivialisation.
        
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        November 1, 2020 10:06am
      - krazykiwi
        
        I direct a large NGO with 100s of staff who deal with the tragic consequences of family violence, sexual abuse on a daily basis. Your move.
        
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        November 1, 2020 12:14pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        That’s a new one, a “Director” of an NGO that spends 7 days a week posting on KB. Either bull crap or a trougher – probably both.
        
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        November 1, 2020 1:37pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Brian, we have 7 board meeting days and 1 strategy meeting day each year. On a per-hour basis the board fees are lower than a junior primary school teacher.
        
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        November 1, 2020 2:59pm
    - Jack5
      
      Will Davidson be the best leader of a campaign against sexual and family violence?
      
      Will she be more serious than her campaign for use of the c- word (link bel0w)?
      
      One thing would be to fight sexual and family violence because they are wrong, bad, cruel, unacceptable in themselves, and not rely on hokey statistics to allege that NZ has the worst, or near-worst, record in the world.
      
      Davidson’s stand for c***s:
      
      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/09/new-zealand-mp-uses-c-word-at-rally-in-call-to-reclaim-it-from-abusers
      
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      November 1, 2020 11:03am
      - Jack5
        
        Or you can watch and hear Davidson on the subject:
        
        https://youtu.be/6TLYDIpBxt8
        
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        November 1, 2020 11:34am
  - IC5000
    
    Alternatively she could investigate complaints about JLR during his time as a National MP
    
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    November 1, 2020 9:50am
    - Tall Man
      
      She could but is bullying in the workplace under her purvey? Does that constitute sexual or family violence?
      
      Bullying within a consentual relationship is an issue but we already have avenues for redress for that as jlr will soon discover.
      
      Now if you equate his actions with those of the sexual assailant at the labour youth camp or the digital rapist so “valued” by ardern then that really does say a lot about you and the type of person you are don’t you think?
      
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      November 1, 2020 1:15pm
- artemisia
  
  I hope Ms Davidson is required to set actual targets and report regularly against them.
  
  Pretty sure she will be requesting more budget, much more, like tomorrow. Any guesses at the recipients? No, don’t bother.
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:29am
  - Tall Man
    
    “Anti smacking” was a winner wasn’t it …………
    
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    November 1, 2020 9:14am
  - JibberJabber
    
    LoL, Targets, Reports?
    Labour and the Greens loathe the idea of any measurement of their complete and utter incompetence and failure in any and all of their endeavours, which is why the first thing Labour did 3 years ago was abolish Targets, Standards and any form of measurement in all Ministries.
    
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    November 1, 2020 9:43am
    - artemisia
      
      There is no downside for Labour to require and monitor targets and draft budgets from the Greens.
      
      There is a downside for Labour and taxpayers if agreed targets and budgets are not met.
      
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      November 1, 2020 12:16pm
  - Nickc2
    
    I wonder if this job will prevent her stirring up shit in the Middle East now peace seems to be happening?
    I sure as hell hope so!
    
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    November 1, 2020 11:05am
- pdm
  
  The `C’ word will become compulsory in all schools.
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:51am
  - Kiwi Dave
    
    [de-]Colonisation?
    
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    November 1, 2020 12:02pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Just when referring to Marama, she can hardly object.
    
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    November 1, 2020 12:06pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Craven
    Coward
    Creep
    
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    November 1, 2020 3:46pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, meth use is common amongst baby killer ‘care givers’. Will Marama stop this?
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:58am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Will Marama stop this?
    
    I don’t know how effective she can be.. but at least she knows the practicalities of raising children and has experienced family sexual abuse as a young girl.
    
    I’m hoping she won’t be looking for reasons to excuse the violent and damaging behaviours of perpetrators.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:03am
- Tall Man
  
  Maggy, in my opinion, people like her are also a scourge on our lives.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:09am
- Scott
  
  Maggy it’s a downtick from me and here’s why.
  Although Marama is married herself with many children, she has the problem of the Green / leftist ideology. That ideology is anti family.
  
  Fathers, too patriarchal, marriage, too hetero normative, kids, too many people cause climate change.
  
  That’s the problem. Although she has good life experience, the ideology of her party is anti family.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:59am
  - oldfella
    
    I assume Marama is a true-believer greenie who decries overpopulation for damaging the planet…. so, how come she has six kids? Isn’t that irresponsible? Even hypocritical?
    Maybe she was a late convert to the cause… /sarc
    
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    November 1, 2020 11:54am
- oldfella
  
  Maggy, does this mean Marama will now get to dish out some biffo to the ‘c*nts’ (one of her favourite words) who bash their kids?
  … [Deleted. Mod]
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:46am
- JackRabbit
  
  Her first job will be re-opening the inquiry into PM’s office predator…. Yeah Right!
  
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  November 1, 2020 11:21am
All_on_Red

Rest in Heaven 007
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November 1, 2020 8:15am
- All_on_Red
  
  I’m sure there will be Pussy Galore when he gets there.
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:16am
  - All_on_Red
    
    “Losers whine about doing their best but winners go home and f**k the Prom Queen”
    
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    November 1, 2020 8:17am
    - krazykiwi
      
      The Rock
      
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      November 1, 2020 8:19am
    - C J Southern
      
      That’s almost Harvey Specter quality.
      
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      November 1, 2020 7:59pm
- Inandout
  
  At least he wasn’t around to witness a Jane Bond.
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:59am
  - Jack5
    
    Or the future LGBTIQ-plus Bonds
    
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    November 1, 2020 11:32am
SGA

UK to go to a lockdown of sorts.
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November 1, 2020 8:15am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  How soon until a panicked phone call from a friend in the UK makes our PM follow suit?
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:58am
- Inandout
  
  SGA, if our economy is not handled correctly Jacinda may well reintroduce a lock down here; with the help of Dr Covid of course. It sure keeps the team of 5 million quiet.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:02am
- Tall Man
  
  Great chance to instill a bit of fear.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:16am
  - SGA
    
    Meh – a lot of Kiwiblog thrives on fear of communists / socialists / marxists / tyranny / progressives/ the ungodly / muslims / whatever. Krazykiwi’s “The tyranny is flexing its muscle again” comment (below) is an ready example.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:31am
    - krazykiwi
      
      SGA, across multiple jurisdictions we’ve seen arbitrary suspensions of civil liberties by decree. I call that tyranny.
      
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      November 1, 2020 2:37pm
      - SGA
        
        Exactly! As you see it, there are tyrants to left of us, tyrants to right. And you chose that description carefully because you think/want that we should be fearful (just as Tall Man was describing).
        
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        November 1, 2020 4:19pm
Paulus

So after all the bullshit from Labour we have another Coalition Government.
Sod you sheeple who voted to keep the Greens out – she has let them back in via t backdoor – and will regret it.
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November 1, 2020 8:19am
- softail 1450
  
  Paulus ,the new greeny Mexican dude should be amply qualified to run Cindys strategy to fight drug abuse in NZ. LOL.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:08am
- Jack5
  
  Shows that MMP rules out majority government. It’s rule by minorities.
  
  Hope this wasn’t what made Hitler, who rose to power under MMP’s progenitor electoral system, so brutal and murderous towards minorities.
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:53am
- MCos
  
  In as much as the Greens have zero influence on confidence and supple, which means their votes in the house count for naught, it’s not a coalition government.
  If they said, for example, either we all get new e-bikes or we’re out of here, Jacinda wouldn’t have to go to the G-G.
  In the last administration NZF could stymie anything thing they chose.
  
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  November 1, 2020 11:26am
  - david
    
    JAG obviously impressed the negotiators with her adroit handling of her Associate Minister roles in the last Government – so much that she has now sunk without trace it would seem.
    Oh to be needed again![sarc]
    
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    November 1, 2020 1:31pm
krazykiwi

UK into another lockdown. Just like March. The tyranny is flexing its muscle again. Behave. Be compliant, despite WHO saying lockdowns are more harmful than not. If you comply we might give you a ‘normal’ Christmas day with your family.
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November 1, 2020 8:24am
- KevO'Brien
  
  This might help explain the new lockdowns. There is a great deal of political alignment jostling at present.
  
  https://www.wnd.com/2020/10/4865936/
  (Archbishop warns Trump of ‘Great Reset’ plot to advance globalism.)
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:30am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I lament the subservient complacency of so many. Our freedoms and liberty are being crushed by the ruling elite using junk science to create fear and panic.
    
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    November 1, 2020 8:40am
    - Ralph
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      krazykiwi, which gulag are you doing your postings from?
      
      Junk science? LOL
      
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      November 1, 2020 9:12am
    - Okahu
      
      You’re wasted on us Krazy. Have you ever thought how useful you would be if you wandered off to a covid hotspot and got your message out? I’m fairly sure there are plenty of nations more ripe and receptive to your perpetual lamentations.
      
      How about this? You post a pic of yourself in NZ then in say Trafalgar Square. I will personally pay for the soapbox you will need and I reckon others here would gladly find you a bullhorn.
      
      I’ll even shout you a beer if you tell everyone your Australian.
      
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      November 1, 2020 12:27pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        +1 for creative thinking 🙂
        
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        November 1, 2020 3:17pm
  - backster
    
    He’s not wrong.
    
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    November 1, 2020 8:48am
- MCos
  
  We had a lockdown in March too.
  The difference was it was only a part of the action taken. The UK never closed their borders or had an effective track & trace, managed isolation, quarantine . . . . .
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:44am
  - Tall Man
    
    Neither did we or do you inhabit an alternate universe?
    
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    November 1, 2020 9:18am
    - MCos
      
      You’re problem, Tall Man, is you have this pathological unwillingness to concede the either that Covid-19 has been contained in NZ, because it would demonstrate some degree of competence by the previous administration, or it all just a beat up perpetrated by the same people to keep the populace under their thumb.
      
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      November 1, 2020 12:51pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Think what you will but our borders have not been “contained” or we wouldn’t have any cases at all from all our “citizens” returning home.
        
        We would have not have had any community cases without source had we contained the “killer virus”.
        
        We would not have had a port worker infected then infecting his mate in 3 minutes but as I said, you must live in an alternate universe.
        
        I will concede, however, that they have done a fantastic job of keeping New Zealand safe from attack by both aliens and giant wetas, both of which I regard as a greater threat to the earth than that which covid 19 poses over and above any other covid virus that we have faced and will face again numerous times in my lifetime.
        
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        November 2, 2020 8:12am
  - Michael Duke
    
    They also have over 13x the population in 90% of the land area, think that NIGHT have something to do with it?
    
    It was not our “Stellar” response it was a function of a stupidly low population density.
    
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    November 1, 2020 3:03pm
- IC5000
  
  How can this be? Covid mortality and infection rates are a lie and Boris wouldn’t lie to us so why the lockdown?
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:52am
  - Tall Man
    
    Like NZ, idiots in charge giving poor advice.
    
    Maybe hendy’s told him a million will die……
    
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    November 1, 2020 1:17pm
Notsofast

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
TVNZ spends 5 million of your money to pay Robin Scholes to encourage viewers to be open minded about the closed Robin Bain case.

Can I remind you all, Robin received one gun shot wound, and this was a suicide trajectory, delivered by placing his left temple to the gun, with the butt on the floor, and using his left thumb.
There was a 10 mil ring of soot surrounding the 4 mil bullet hole, which led Alex Dempster to record this as a contact shot immediately on discovering the bodies. These were among the first written words.
Later it would be confirmed Robin had thumb marks showing he had loaded cartridges to the gun since rising that morning, and he had blood smears on his hands.

David would have needed Robin to be compliant in his own murder, and also have correctly researched suicide trajectory with a long gun.

TVNZ should be called to account for this disgrace, and Scholes should know better than to create fiction around a serious crime.
Michael Bain should return the insurance money to David Bain.
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November 1, 2020 8:25am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Mark Lundy did it. Record fast drive in a Falcon PN-Dunedin and back.
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:58am
  - Blackbob
    
    That premise was based on an”experts” testimony on the likely time based on food breakdown in the stomachs of the victims vs a cell phone tower signal in Wellington. The food breakdown as an indicator of time was later shown to be less than accurate.
    
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    November 1, 2020 9:22am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Spectacularly wrong in fact.
      
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      November 1, 2020 10:54am
    - Notsofast
      
      Actually the appeal court seems to accept important evidence, when Morgan says Amber simply must have got up and eaten more, and Winkelmann j remonstrates with,
      “Mr Morgan, you are arguing backwards”.
      
      Yes he was, and this exchange illuminates the later disposition of the appeal court to ignore and sweep under the carpet vital evidence.
      
      It would be wrong to undermine the faith of the people in the work of the police.
      
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      November 1, 2020 12:28pm
  - oldfella
    
    Captain, where was Arthur Allan Thomas at the time?
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:51am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I actually wonder if Mark Lundy did the Bain killings…
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:01am
  - Waipuk
    
    The way the New Zealand police work they could prove it so.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:08am
- broseph
  
  Agree with this post. Unless the show will explore the bungling investigation by the police and the appalling outcomes of an at times ‘creative’ adversarial criminal system, then it is just more sensationalism of a tragedy.
  
  Or they could explore the situation with a mental health and domestic violence lens.
  
  I also know the family. Robin did it.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:04am
  - Notsofast
    
    Yes broseph, Robin did it, yet I do not know the family. I have read all Karam’s books, but that is also unnecessary. Maybe you can help the audience here with the draining of the cashflow machine at midnight and why this occurred.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:09am
    - Jack5
      
      Hell, NSF, were you at the Bain party with some jury members after the second verdict?
      
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      November 1, 2020 11:52am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        You mean police at the Station Hotel with Jury members after the Thomas retrial?
        
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        November 1, 2020 1:40pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      “…the draining of the cashflow machine at midnight…”
      
      Shit was about to hit the fan, as Laniet, with David’s help, was going to spill the beans on the abusive incest between Robin and Laniet. And we should not forget the witness that caught Robin in the act, and the number of other witnesses that testified to the incest from conversations with Laniet as she tried to extricate herself from her controlling father.
      
      I would say if David killed Robin, after Robin killed the family to silence Laniet, then he did in the heat of the moment what anyone on here might have done in similar circumstances – act in rage. If your father was forcibly sleeping with your younger sister and then he shoots up the family, no-one in their right mind is going to say “Nice job dad. I’ll help clean up the bodies.” Any wonder when David called the police he said “I killed the prick.”
      
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      November 1, 2020 11:56am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      If you’ve read all of Karam’s books, of course you’ll think Robin did it. But did you read Mask of Sanity, by James McNeish?
      
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      November 1, 2020 5:58pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    It has been obvious to a lot of people for a long time that Robin killed the family and that David killed Robin, either in self-defence or retaliation after a fight for the gun.
    
    Problem is the inept Police and Prosecution did not prosecute on that option – it was either David or Robin, so the defence had to defend on that basis.
    
    I’m led to believe that even some police believed that Robin killed the family and David killed Robin in self defence or retaliation. Which is why David didn’t object to the crime scene, the family home, being burnt down. It raises many questions as to why the Police did not put forward that theory.
    
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    November 1, 2020 11:34am
    - Jack5
      
      “It has been obvious to a lot of people …”
      
      Perhaps you mean to the people who were at the piss-up after the second verdict, including the person who slipped on to the jury because of an earlier deed-poll change of name.
      
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      November 1, 2020 3:19pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    A lot of evidence was stopped from being presented at the first trial.
    
    http://www.davidbaindonate.nz/what-the-jury-wasnt-told/
    
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    November 1, 2020 12:21pm
- Swifty
  
  The physical evidence that David Bain shot his entire family is overwhelming.
  
  The physical evidence that it was Robin is non-existent.
  
  That you cannot or will not see it says a lot about your make up.
  
  Do you fancy yourself as some sort of white knight? A crusader?
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:04am
  - Notsofast
    
    If you read my post carefully you will see that I specifically described 3 vital pieces of physical evidence showing Robin did this crime.
    By all means address those items.
    However, history shows you will not, and simply emerge another day with fearless assertions that are false.
    With this TV disgrace the time has come for people to front up with evidence before another generation is fooled by our system and Judith Collins.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:22am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    An unsupported claim by a person called ‘swifty’. Wow.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:57am
    - Swifty
      
      What’s my non de plume got to do with anything Brian? You saw fit to use one for years and years.
      
      Support for my claim:
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/david-bain-reporter-martin-van-beynen-justifies-why-he-thinks-bain-is-guilty/JRRWEPZ6RAU7A4X2MBFBP3BJWA/
      
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      November 1, 2020 11:23am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        The question is why van-beynan never reported there were no scratches on David’s chest when the police Doctor examined him, and why he never reported Robin’s DNA being found in the rifle barrel, it was after all expected to be nonselective about critical evidence.
        
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        November 1, 2020 1:46pm
    - Jack5
      
      An an unsupported claim by a person called Brian McDonald:
      
      https://www.mediacouncil.org.nz/rulings/brian-mcdonald-against-the-press
      
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      November 1, 2020 11:56am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        It is actually supported Jack5. Robin’s DNA
        was found in the rifle barrel as back spatter – indicating probable suicide with his temple against the rifle barrel, and there were no scratches on David’s chest when he agreed to be examined before he was charged.
        Both points were critical evidence which I believed van beynan should have printed when doing his hit job on Binnie having been sent the response to the Binnie report before the Judge himself. The NZPA didn’t print the entire complaint.
        The complaint was over the balance of the article and apparently, exculpatory evidence was held not important to it, which might be a little complex for you. It is far from a Judgement on the Bain case, it was about what constitutes editorial balance.
        
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        November 1, 2020 2:01pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    That’s a bit harsh. Those pieces of data are important. I’m not saying I agree entirely with his narrative but they are valid points. Better to debate the information rather than attack the messenger.
    
    Your irrational response is of a form that I would expect from a left wing watermelon troll, not a reasoned thinker.
    
    And for what it’s worth, most police will say they they didn’t arrest anyone who wasn’t guilty, yet seasoned detectives will admit they only get the prosecutions right 70% of the time. And we all know heaps of crime that doesn’t get investigated because the police don’t have the resources.
    
    The purpose of police investigation, is not to get a prosecution. The purpose is to find the truth and establish what actually happened, no matter how long it takes. It is the prosecution’s job to prosecute.
    
    Inductive investigation means assessing all the data, not just cherry picking what you need to get a guilty verdict.
    
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    November 1, 2020 11:44am
    - Swifty
      
      “Your irrational response is of a form that I would expect from a left wing watermelon troll, not a reasoned thinker….”
      
      If you had been dealing with Notsofast over a DECADE on KB going over the same points over and over again, you might think differently.
      
      The evidence has been put to him a thousand times but he just keeps bringing put the same old points time and time again. He keeps raising the Bain issue, not us. He is the BAINIAC, not us.
      
      Now he just gets derision. Sorry, but that’s just me.
      
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      November 1, 2020 4:08pm
- G152
  
  The ‘full’ bladder claim gets me wondering as upon death all sphincters relax…
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:00am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    A bladder can appear full with 250m of urine, equally with a lot more because of its capacity to expand. Prostate enlargement can result in urine retention, wasn’t substantial evidence in the case although the Prosecution made it out to be, and it stuck with a lot of the public.
    
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    November 1, 2020 2:14pm
- harvey wilson
  
  @Notsofast , so many leaps in that post without few facts or substance to back them up ,merely twisted to agree with your pre conceived notions.
  
  You are wasted here, you should write policy for the Greens.
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:20am
  - Notsofast
    
    Wasted if nothing changes, but they do slowly.
    
    Arthur Thomas pardoned.
    David Tamihere gets an appeal hearing.
    Teina Pora exonerated and compensated.
    David Bain found not guilty but maliciously cheated out of compensation by Judith Collins.
    Rex Haig exonerated.
    Scott Watson gets an appeal hearing.
    Mark Lundy is fast dealt with by Privy council and given a second show trial. CCRC now in possession of the complete file.
    Ewan MacDonald correctly acquitted after persecution by Sue Schwalger.
    
    There are others well known which I will leave for now.
    I don ‘t claim the above list as my work, but I note the progress.
    
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    November 1, 2020 12:36pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Don’t you mean Ewan MacDonald ‘incorrectly’ acquitted…
      
      He agreed in a prior police interview that if they found the person who did the graffiti and killed the farmers stags etc, they would find the killer. But the guilty finding of him doing those things was suppressed at the murder trial.
      
      Upon the acquittal verdict he slumped back in his chair like a man cursed, not a man vindicated.
      
      So either he did it, or he knew who did it.
      
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      November 1, 2020 2:37pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  “Can I remind you all, Robin received one gun shot wound, and this was a suicide trajectory, delivered by placing his left temple to the gun, with the butt on the floor, and using his left thumb.”
  
  On a chair actually. With the rifle butt on the floor, as you describe he would have instantly fallen forward because of the bend in his knees required to reach the trigger.
  What was showing in a scene photo was gsr on his thumb that in its normal fashion disappeared and was not present at the autopsy. It matched the curvature of the magazine but was discovered way after the acquittal.
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:51am
  - Swifty
    
    Was it proven to be gsr Brian?
    
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    November 1, 2020 11:25am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      No it wasn’t, but it was but the most consistent explanation for 2 reasons, that it has a limited visible life:
      “Gunshot residue (GSR) deposits on the hands decline rapidly during the first hour after firing the weapon.
      In practice, GSR cannot be expected after six hours from a living subject. However in suicides, GSR can
      last many hours after the time of shooting.”
      And secondly the shape of the GSR “stain” was consistent with the magazine shape, from memory it was damaged.
      Since 2012 there is a method of finding and recording it quickly for first responders.
      
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      November 1, 2020 2:25pm
      - Swifty
        
        “No it wasn’t….”
        
        Bingo!
        
        Conjecture, not evidence.
        
        Same as Notsofast.
        
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        November 1, 2020 4:09pm
  - Jack5
    
    Not even time for a leak before he put his toe on the trigger.
    
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    November 1, 2020 11:53am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Another sharp comment from an expert on pissing.
      
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      November 1, 2020 2:57pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    ie., a next to impossible contortion to achieve.
    
    But entirely consistent with kneeling down, with someone standing over him with the weapon.
    
    Funny that.
    
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    November 1, 2020 1:10pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      I will disabuse you of your fantasy the trajectory was upward, so kneeling down would have meant downward. Try again.
      
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      November 1, 2020 2:55pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      It’s true that a number of people mistook the re-enactment by the forensic pathologist, where the rifle barrel needed to be fitted onto a cap with a spike on it indicating the trajectory angle, as being real. Some even laughed about it. But no nigel, Robin didn’t need a trajectory rod and the Jury got that.
      
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      November 1, 2020 3:03pm
lifesgood

Would someone please buy Boris Johnson a comb.
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November 1, 2020 8:25am
- calendar girl
  
  If you regard it as important, you’re welcome to do so and post it to Boris . He may even send you a ‘thank you’ message.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:07am
- softail 1450
  
  lifesgood ,no his father unbelievably has the exact same unruly hair ,its in the genes …
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:11am
  - lifesgood
    
    LOL! Yes, I saw that.
    
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    November 1, 2020 9:48am
- artemisia
  
  His hair certainly sets him apart from the usual grey male politicians. He is instantly recognisable.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:55am
- harvey wilson
  
  He has a comb, it’s a balloon.
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:20am
- freethinker
  
  I would prefer to buy Boris a corset with a strong backbone support.
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:22am
I remember when

Is the sin bin really just an excuse for ‘I think there should be more of a penalty’.
Last night there was thirty minutes in the test with someone sitting on a chair because of video referral.
If we are honest none of them would probably have stood up in a court of law. All had extenuating circumstances and none appeared to be deliberate foul play.
Using the big screen seems to be more about the judiciary involved covering themselves than fairness.
Do we need to follow league and ‘be put on report’?
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November 1, 2020 8:26am
- The Real Tony
  
  Put on report is a much better way of managing real or suspected fouls. Putting players on the sideline, is a poor outcome for all involved – teams, supporters, players, refs. Just note that something untoward happened, get on with the game and then analyze it to death later.
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:07am
- Jimmy White
  
  The First was not foul play BUT the rule states that you cannot make contact with a player in the air, It does not matter if you attended to or not. The punishment is prescribed. The Ref has no leeway.
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:14am
- Brian McDonald
  
  It takes momentum away from the team with the advantage.
  
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  November 1, 2020 3:05pm
Suze Wainwright

This new Government structure arrangement is all very well, but where to now for the Rainbow community?
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November 1, 2020 8:28am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Concern noted.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:58am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Exactly mike
    
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    November 1, 2020 12:00pm
- Jimmy White
  
  Easy answer: Go to lullaby land…
  Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high
  There’s a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
  Somewhere over the rainbow skies are blue
  Clouds high over the rainbow, makes all your dreams come true. [Ed]
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:17am
- sooty
  
  They are the majority in this government!
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:23am
- Nickc2
  
  Who cares?
  
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  November 1, 2020 11:22am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Me, if they are not there on merit.
    
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    November 1, 2020 12:16pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Less I hope.
  
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  November 1, 2020 12:17pm
  - stigie
    
    Oh be kind, a little fairy dust didn’t hurt anyone..?
    
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    November 1, 2020 12:49pm
Yvette

MMP is still quite a puzzle.

To sum-up on the Winston Peters “king-maker position”, it seemed everyone could vote, and after Election Day results, Winston (he or his caucus) when they held the difference, was able then to have a post-Election final vote and decide a Government – so AFTER everyone else had voted.

Now to seems Labour can win outright with a majority vote, but then after the result and not signaled beforehand, select people from another party (which logically on the result, are Opposition) to support them.

When Labour has the ability to Govern, at what point does offering Ministerial roles to Opposition parties remain an MMP process, or become a form of biassing, bribery or corruption?

Winston could not justify his actions by any detail like those that voted for NZ First but wanted a coalition with Labour, or in fact with National – no evidence exists, he just decided himself (or supposedly, with his caucus)
Likewise a vote for Labour carries no indication for it to just be “Labour “, or “Government with some condition not defined before Election Day”.
(Winston seemed adamant about preserving the integrity of Election result numbers – for obvious reasons of self-preservation –but not of the votes his party acquired, nor preserving policies voted on but negotiated with and changed when it came to selecting a Government)

I suppose it is a sort of democracy … sort of … but changing as each Government further defines it.

Where in the Electoral Act does it indicate Ardern can do what she is doing?

“This agreement is striking a balance between utilising the skills that we have in the Parliament, but also making sure that we that we aren’t held back in utilising the mandate that New Zealanders have given us.” – Ardern

How do you claim to have been given a “mandate” when the first thing you do is involve another party so denying such a supposed mandate?
How close un principle (or lack of it) does co-opting ministers from other parties come to an offence under Winston’s paranoia wake-jumping legislation and preserving the “integrity” of Election results – if changed by defection, or in this case by invitation.
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November 1, 2020 8:34am
- SGA
  
  Where in the Electoral Act does it indicate Ardern can do what she is doing?
  
  Where does it say she can’t?
  Granted it was slightly different circumstances, but I think Key formed a government that included more parties than were strictly necessary (and it was a pretty canny move at the time, I thought).
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:44am
- tf78
  
  I think that Jacinda realized most of her Labour colleagues are useless, therefore had to go elsewhere to continue her Nuclear moment.
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:12am
- peterwn
  
  The Prime Minister is free to choose her Ministry and Speaker from all MP’s regardless of party affiliations. A National PM with a narrow majority chose a Labour speaker one year.
  It would have been obvious to the electorate that Labour would have turned to the Greens first if needed to form a government, so there can be no objection with Labour turning to the Greens now even if Labour does not need the Greens to govern,
  I anticipated Jacinda would have done this, and would have probably appointed a few Green MP’s to minor Ministerial roles. She did just that, the only slight surprise being she did not include include the two in Cabinet. She obviously does not want the Greens to have any significant influence on significant Government policy.
  Her reasons to include the Greens are twofold. Firstly it gives her some ‘insurance’ in case a small group of Labour MP’s get together and try and hold her to ransom. Secondly she may need to rely on the Greens in a subsequent election and it would be easier to bring them on board on good terms if they are part of the team already.
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:26am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Well discerned.
    
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    November 1, 2020 12:20pm
  - sooty
    
    Yes, but chloe the only elected one, missed out.
    Will she be the raĺlying point for the more radical greens?
    Where would the greens be without an elected seat?
    How many seats would they have got on the list?
    
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    November 1, 2020 12:32pm
    - Paulus
      
      Specials not in yet for Auckland Central.
      
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      November 1, 2020 2:10pm
    - SGA
      
      Where would the greens be without an elected seat?
      How many seats would they have got on the list?
      
      Exactly the same number as they have now?
      Sorry, but I can’t follow your point.
      
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      November 1, 2020 4:24pm
  - david
    
    No Collective Cabinet Responsibility on the Greens though so they are effectively free agents but entirely reliant on the Gummint for their inflated salaries, extra staff and spendable budgets. One false move and a reshuffle could put them back in their comfy seats with nothing to do all day but whinge.
    
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    November 1, 2020 1:38pm
- JackRabbit
  
  A suitably compliant Prince, who never had an effective male role model, and who never challenged the narrative.
  
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  November 1, 2020 12:02pm
rockape

So what can we expect in the next few years. Parliamentary term extended to 4 years, coat- tailing gone, government funding for political parties all things to ensure the survival of a socialist. Government beyond 2023. A steady march towards a socialist republic with Helen Clark or Jacinda as leader.
Boy I am glad I have dual passports. This is what National infighting and division brought you. Believe me the governments priorities for the next term won’t be housing or poverty or the recovery of the economy
. It will be the survival of the socialist state in NZ.
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November 1, 2020 8:47am
- Tony Stuart
  
  No. Changes of that magnitude require a 75% super-majority. Personally, I favour a four year term, and believe a government is likely to achieve more intwo four year stints than it would in three lots of three. It’s ironic too that they want to abolish coattailing, when there is none in this Parliament on present numbers!
  
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  November 1, 2020 8:55am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    “a government is likely to achieve more in two four year stints than it would in three lots of three.”
    
    That’s what worries me. What scary stuff is Labour likely to achieve?
    
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    November 1, 2020 9:02am
  - rockape
    
    Well National said they support 4 year terms and I am not sure coat tailing and Government funded elections need that majority. Greens Labour have 60% now!
    
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    November 1, 2020 9:09am
    - Unity
      
      I favour a 4 year term if the Government I voted for got in but I definitely wouldn’t favour a 4 year term if the opposition got in!! Who would have guessed it?!! To be honest a don’t think a Government can achieve much with a 3 year term but if the Government was hopeless (in my eyes) a 4 year term would be far too long.
      
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      November 1, 2020 2:41pm
  - Tall Man
    
    This lot could be in for fourty years and still accomplish little that we would regard as positive so I disagree with you.
    
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    November 1, 2020 9:34am
    - Tall Man
      
      Forty ffs…….
      
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      November 1, 2020 10:57am
  - bruceavon
    
    I support a 4 year term too. They barely get in and start focusing on the next election. 3 years is too short.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:17am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Not to keep incapable MP’s out.
      
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      November 1, 2020 12:21pm
  - rockape
    
    It doesnt require 75% if a referendum is held . it then needs just a simple majority. That hasnt been achieved in the past but if Labour Greens support it it could well make 50%.
    
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    November 1, 2020 12:19pm
- Ian Boag
  
  So Rocko. You will be out of here just as soon as Boris nails covid …. ?
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:27am
  - rockape
    
    Probably not, but when my wifes parents are gone yes. my son and his family are in the UK and everything from property to food is so much cheaper there. I am long retired so that helps and my still working wife would earn about30% more.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:46am
    - rockape
      
      When you can buy this for the cost of a 2 bed apartment in Auckland, why wouldnt you? https://countrylife.onthemarket.com/details/8358244/
      
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      November 1, 2020 12:22pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Or this ………
        
        https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/74441418#/
        
        Who’d a thought a home in a major city would cost a lot ……..
        
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        November 1, 2020 1:28pm
- Tall Man
  
  I think you are overly pessimistic.
  
  The competence level of this lot is very low so talk will be their major accomplishment.
  National is at a low point so up is the only way to go and I believe they can come back and not only provide a competent opposition but also offer a viable alternative in 2023 when the “covid con” has well and truly been either put to bed or exposed as a pathetic over reaction.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:37am
- Nickc2
  
  It will be the survival of the socialist state in NZ as part of a One-World-Government? Like it, not folks, globalism is on its way. Even a religious leader is fostering this claim.
  Don’t forget, Winston signed us up to a World-Without-Borders UN dictate with Comrade Cindy’s approval.
  
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  November 1, 2020 11:34am
- yossarian
  
  You forgot lowering the voting age to 16
  
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  November 1, 2020 12:32pm
- stigie
  
  ” This is what National infighting and division brought you.”
  
  Bang on. As a National voter and supporter, you would have to agree with that statement !~
  
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  November 1, 2020 12:56pm
Maggy Wassilieff

And just in case Someone wants to accuse you of being a conspiracist…

https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/
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November 1, 2020 8:49am
- krazykiwi
  
  Anyone who blathers about conspiracy theories on this topic is either a ruling elite member, or a willfully ignorant dolt. Sadly only a few of us are calling it.
  
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  November 1, 2020 9:33am
  - RichardX
    
    Don’t be coy. Spell out what you believe is occurring, who is responsible and what evidence you have to support your position.
    
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    November 1, 2020 10:37am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      See Maggies ref above.
      There is a great deal going on but no one wants to believe the hidden malevolent are calling the shots on our future.
      I see the global financial spree funded out of nothing as giving the central banks an opportunity to play pass the parcel and package up debt for control.
      The USA is a mess and there is a serious suggestion of their dollar going digital. Add COVID, global warming “imperatives”, Gates compulsory vacs and their is plenty of scope to tilt to a one world govt. Jacinda may even find a place as Supreme Orderly for Pangolin Control.
      
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      November 1, 2020 12:32pm
      - RichardX
        
        Who are the “hidden malevolents”?
        
        What evidence do you have that they exist and are “calling the shots”?
        
        What “shots” are they calling?
        
        Your rant is a list of a particular version of events that may or may not be connected but until you present evidence there is no reason to accept your statements.
        
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        November 1, 2020 12:43pm
      - Harriet
        
        “….Your rant is a list of a particular version of events that may or may not be connected but until you present evidence there is no reason to accept your statements…..”
        
        The EU and UN and the ‘new’ US Democrats formerly the party of John Kennedy, are connected, they are also funded by multi national globalists where individuals essentially become ‘stateless’ because of a bureaucratic class just like the current EU.
        
        Democratic liberal nation states and patriotism is what creates better societies and individuals. Collectivism gives you lowest common denominator units. Just look at what is roaming around western Europe out of work – eastern Europeans, Sub continentals, Africans and Middle Easterners,
        
        Trump isn’t our God, he’s not autocratic or a Mullah, or a Chinese characteristic, and that is what is making him the most popular person on earth. 😎
        
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        November 1, 2020 4:46pm
- RJ
  
  Haven’t paid much attention to this, but did see an interesting letter to trump the other day about it from Carlo Maria Viganò
  
  https://insidethevatican.com/news/newsflash/letter-32-friday-october-30-2020-vigano-to-trump/
  
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  November 1, 2020 1:28pm
surfing

Joe Rogan is fighting the good fight against the snowflakes and woke.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-rogans-podcast-sparks-tensions-inside-spotify-11604156400

Spotfiy employees trying to restrict free speech, thankfully management still on board with Joe.
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November 1, 2020 8:50am
rockape

Yes Maggie and the only barrier to UN rule is the USA sadly when they go far left this election that barrier is gone. I am sure the socialist republic of NZ will embrace the UN.
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November 1, 2020 9:06am
Ralph

Unlike Team Jacinda I see Boris Johnson ( Like his counterpart in the US) is again losing his grip on Covid Pandemic with yet another four week lockdown for England.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/429591/boris-johnson-orders-four-week-covid-lockdown-for-england
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November 1, 2020 9:14am
- theoldbloke
  
  When will Kiwis understand!!! Sigh
  In the USA the individual states are in charge of Public Health(ie Covid response) hence different governors applying different restrictions (lockdown, no lockdown)
  
  Trump has supported freedom of choice of said Governors.
  
  Remember. ONLY the senate makes the laws. Not the President! Altho Obama and others seem to disregard the Senate (Obama bombing Libya springs to mind)
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:55am
  - Ralph
    
    “Remember. ONLY the senate makes the laws. ”
    
    Is that a fact?
    
    There are qualities known as statesmanship and leadsership that Trump glaringly lacks cf FDR, Harry Truman, Eisenhower etc.
    
    State rights is no excuese
    
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    November 1, 2020 12:02pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      The House Of Representives drafts the Law ( they represent the People)
      After they pass it, it then moves to the Senate ( who represent their State) who might amend it and negotiate with Congress, but after they pass it, it goes to the President for signing. Or not.
      
      The States are their own country really. The President can only support them. The decisions are the Governors. Look at how Killer Cuomo stuffed up in NY, same in New Jersey.
      Oh, and I think the US can see light at the end of the tunnel for Covid. Deaths are way down, but we’ll see.
      
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      November 1, 2020 12:28pm
    - Jules99
      
      Trump offered federal support to state governors who were affected, who happened to be mostly Democrat. They turned it down. Let’s not suggest he should act unconstitutionally and force federal aid on them.
      
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      November 1, 2020 2:04pm
    - Billy Collins
      
      Are you saying the states should be at the dictatorial mercy of the President?
      
      Or, are you saying the President should be able to convince them of the right action, no matter how childish, petty, and vindictive they are?
      
      You know just as well as I do that even FDR wouldn’t be able to control the current Dem governors. These governors are currently praising thugs, supported the creation of autonomous zones, and more.
      
      You are effectively saying Trump should be able to perform miracles, or else he’s terrible.
      
      This is who he is dealing with:
      https://twitter.com/elijahschaffer/status/1300290897922453504
      
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      November 1, 2020 5:26pm
- Billy Collins
  
  If it wasn’t for Michael Morrah, NZ wouldn’t be doing so well in terms of community transmission.
  
  Also, we will never fully know the full repercussions of shutting our border down for so long. NZ could easily end up far worse than the UK or US in the long run.
  
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  November 1, 2020 11:06am
- Cinematic
  
  But I thought lockdowns were the answer? Are they not?
  
  Interesting to note this is basically the Swedish model.
  
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  November 1, 2020 11:46am
- RJ
  
  You must of been asleep during the last Cindy lockdown.
  
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  November 1, 2020 11:49am
KH

A four year term will effectively mean an eight year term. Too too long.
Been near a half century since we had a one term government.
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November 1, 2020 9:34am
- trout
  
  Well said, the three year term is appropriate; very few governing parties get kicked out after one term. Consider the three yearly election to be a performance review; but for Covid, the Labour Government performance (or lack of it) after one term would have been exposed and found wanting. Also consider the need for the population to get involved and have some say in their future. And that is probably why voters choose to stay with the present system. Regular elections are a steam valve; better than guns in the streets.
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:11am
  - [email protected]
    
    “Regular elections are a steam valve; better than guns in the street”.
    
    Absolutely right but have you noticed that the current government has made the “guns in the street” option very unlikely?
    
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    November 1, 2020 7:15pm
- Billy Collins
  
  Yea, HDPA made a good point. Compared to other govts, ours can get a ridiculous number of things done in 3 years. Another year just means more room to abuse power and implement irreversible damage to the country.
  
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  November 1, 2020 10:14am
Sacha

In my mid 80’s, I am finding some detached interest in pondering life in NZ, say in 25 years.
What will today’s youth-adjacent think of the way THEIR lives have been altered by the Labour regime of the ‘2os? The people THEY chose –
Will they be happy, and think that life is good? Or will they reflect wistfully on how things were in their early years – what will be the pluses?
I’m glad I won’t be there.
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November 1, 2020 9:57am
kglm

It is beyond doubt now that Trump will will Florida. Democrats now have a smaller lead over Republicans in combined vote-by-mail and in-person-early-voting (with 2 days to go) than they had at the start of election day 2016. Republicans always outperform Democrats on election day. The winner of Florida has won the Presidency for the last six elections. It also appears that Trump has the advantage in all other swing states (except perhaps Wisconsin). The enthusiasm factor is massively in Trump’s favour. The Democratic strategy of pushing Covid fear, and promoting vote-by mail have been mistakes. A significant number of votes by mail are rejected for technical reasons, and Democrats are more afraid to vote in person because of Covid than Republicans. Add in increased support for Trump by blacks and hispanics, no organised Democratic voting in closed colleges, and a Biden victory appears very unlikely. The dishonest mainstream pollsters will be wrong again.
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November 1, 2020 10:14am
- All_on_Red
  
  Great summary.
  
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  November 1, 2020 12:31pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Beyond doubt?
  Polling says otherwise. Aggregate polls in Florida have Biden about 2 percentage points up. Polls in the last few days range from Trump by 5 points to Biden by 7 points.
  
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  November 1, 2020 12:47pm
Newbie

If there is going to be a four year parliamentary term, I’d like to see MPs subject to a performance review, and under performing MPs removed immediately.

Waiting for the next election to vote out under performing MPs might take too long.
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November 1, 2020 11:01am
- rockape
  
  And who would do that review?
  
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  November 1, 2020 12:31pm
- Tall Man
  
  Or recall.
  
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  November 1, 2020 1:22pm
Fisiani

No one has ever Tweeted “Australia win the Bledisloe.”
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November 1, 2020 11:06am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Twitter folded.
https://nypost.com/2020/10/30/twitter-backs-down-agrees-to-unlock-posts-account/?
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November 1, 2020 11:16am
- All_on_Red
  
  Twitter now has a problem with US Customs and Border Patrol after they suspended their Twitter Account.
  Good luck meddling with a Federal Law Enforcement Agency.
  Dorsey lied at the Senate hearing too.
  
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  November 1, 2020 12:36pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Dorsey even looks dodgy
    
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    November 1, 2020 1:53pm
fightingtemeraire

In three years time when the housing market is still roaring along, the homelessness problem is even worse after 6 years of neglect.

The children living under the poverty line has increased and Marama hasnt made a dent in the abuse and homelessness cases, this country will be a basket case.
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November 1, 2020 11:34am
- Sigmund Freud
  
  Don’t worry that NZ will be a basket case.
  
  Kiwis LOVE being a basket case and they voted for more of it.
  
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  November 1, 2020 1:10pm
- Tall Man
  
  “this country will be a basket case”
  
  In certain parts and in some sectors it already is.
  
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  November 1, 2020 1:21pm
- cmm
  
  Well poverdee can only go up if you make like Davidson and put all your effort into something that makes no difference in people’s lives: period poverdee.
  
  If people can’t afford $5 a month for menstrual products for their daughter then they’re completely screwed for food, rent and such which costs way more than $5 a month.
  
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  November 1, 2020 5:18pm
Justitia

“New Zealand is the most Islamic country in the world”: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/123197239/new-zealand-ranked-the-most-islamic-country-in-the-world-in-annual-index.

Is this meant to be a compliment? When Little gets his Islamic blasphemy law on the statute books we’ll be off the scale. So when do the stonings, amputations and beheadings get started? Before or after the total ban on booze?
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November 1, 2020 11:46am
- Ralph
  
  Justitia, by what measures and criteria?
  
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  November 1, 2020 12:06pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    http://islamicity-index.org/wp/latest-indices-2019/
    
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    November 1, 2020 1:25pm
- cmm
  
  It is very telling that there are no Islamic countries in the top 40.
  
  That is disturbing. Even the Muslims acknowledge that they can’t build anything they want to live in.
  
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  November 1, 2020 4:24pm
  - Harriet
    
    “……Accordingly, something very dramatic, very cataclysmic — namely, violent persecution, as made clear by page after page of A Sword Over the Nile, which chronicles fourteen centuries of Islamic rule — was responsible for transforming Christian Egypt into Muslim Egypt.
    Should anyone consider the Coptic sources of being biased against Islam, it is worth noting that Muslim sources often confirm them. For instance, in Taqi al-Din al-Maqrizi’s (d. 1442) authoritative history of Egypt, anecdote after anecdote is recorded of Muslims burning churches, slaughtering Christians, and enslaving Coptic women and children — often with the compliance if not outright cooperation of the authorities. The only escape then — as sometimes today — was for Christians to convert to Islam.
    ………after recording one particularly egregious bout of persecution in the eleventh century, when, along with countless massacres, some 30,000 churches, according to Maqrizi, were destroyed or turned into mosques — a staggering number that further indicates how Christian pre-Islamic Egypt was
    ……… While the lives of many Christians were snuffed out over centuries of violence, the spiritual and cultural identities of exponentially more were wiped out in their conversion to Islam. (Such is the sad and ironic cycle that plagues modern Egypt: those Muslims who persecute Christians are themselves often distant descendants of Copts who first embraced Islam to evade their own persecution.)
    In short, if it were not for the Copts’ stubborn resilience and endurance, Christianity would have been wiped out altogether from Egypt — just as it was in the rest of North Africa, which, before the seventh-century Islamic conquests, was also thoroughly Christian…..”
    
    Muslims only really have 2 choices to thrive – liberal democracy or military rule, thriving is all about good order…….from talking to her first thing in the morning to listening to her last thing at night. 😎
    
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    November 1, 2020 5:22pm
I remember when

Are we missing the point with Donald Trump?
It isn’t really about Donald Trump, it is the fact that people are sick of political jargon and the reasons advanced for not being able to do things.
When the great majority of the population feel their wants and directions are not being catered for – what is the answer.
Maybe you do need to upsets large parts of the political machine if you want to make people feel engaged.
Perhaps Donald is just the caricature that represents those who need change. Yes it is hard, yes it upsets some involved, but the end result is the right one.
If Biden wins will Trump be the fall guy when he is unable to deliver.
Who really thinks Joe Biden is going to be wildly successful with covid? Who thinks all the BLM problems are going to be fixed with a Democratic success? Who thinks the economy is going to perform better with Biden at the helm?
Is Biden’s great advantage that he will forget all the problems, sad as that might be.
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November 1, 2020 11:56am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Lots of people are missing the point about Donald Trump. Jack Nicklaus is among the millions who get it: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/golf/300145494/golf-legend-jack-nicklaus-explains-why-he-voted-for-president-donald-trump
  
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  November 1, 2020 1:47pm
- cmm
  
  Exactly. People are sick of the swamp.
  
  They are tired of politicians of any stripe.
  They are tired of useless politicians with no understanding of what they need to do.
  
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  November 1, 2020 4:20pm
Ralph

Can anyone update me on Tucker Carlson’s so-called missing documents allegedly incriminating Hunter Biden?

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/tucker-carlsons-missing-package.11432/#post-242359
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November 1, 2020 12:12pm
- Batman
  
  The flash drive has apparently been found but as yet no summary or exact allegations have been put forward by the show.
  
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  November 1, 2020 12:23pm
- Fletch
  
  In the meantime, the DEA found another computer of Hunter Biden’s at a drug bust at the office of celebrity psychiatrist, Keith Ablow, who had his license suspended after he faced allegations of sexually exploiting patients and illegally diverting prescription drugs. They rather stupidly gave it back to Biden’s lawyer.
  
  https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/another-hunter-biden-laptop-taken-into-custody-during-dea-raid-report
  
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  November 1, 2020 12:43pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden bus -yuge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K8Dzo9uoD0&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3yIEAtpLI7Vck8vmk0_qxLK3w2wUFExF6jI2eYtedmEJcFM6SKwy0Aqw0
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November 1, 2020 12:18pm
- Batman
  
  Yes it appears that Trump supporters are panicking and trying to suppress the democratic process. What a bunch of lawless yahoos.
  
  https://www.thedailybeast.com/biden-camp-cancels-austin-texas-event-after-pro-trump-ambush-on-campaign-bus
  
  They’re a disgrace to their country.
  
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  November 1, 2020 12:49pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Also in Texas – GOP vote suppression attempts to disqualify over 100,000 votes already cast:
    https://www.statesman.com/news/20201030/court-fight-over-harris-county-drive-thru-votes-raises-alarm
    
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    November 1, 2020 1:15pm
  - RJ
    
    Peaceful protest is part of democracy, unlike what the democrat supported antifa and BLM does.
    
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    November 1, 2020 1:16pm
  - mark15
    
    It’s only the Trump-train,no need to get the butthurts!
    
    8 4
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    November 1, 2020 1:21pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Yuge Trump Train. Next stop, 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, Washington DC
      
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      November 1, 2020 2:01pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Oh come on, Batman, it was a mostly peaceful protest!
    
    10 2
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    November 1, 2020 1:48pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I guess you believe that Trump supporters tried to run the bus off the road Batman. The white vehicle involve drifted to the right, the Trump vehicle gave him a nudge with his tyres. I think the white vehicle driver was not paying attention – looking at all of the flags.
    
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    November 1, 2020 1:56pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      To me it looks like good old southern hospitality
      
      6 6
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      November 1, 2020 2:14pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  As far as Biden rallies being cancelled it has become embarrassing for them. Trump trucks with flags are turning up by the thousands
  
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  November 1, 2020 1:59pm
RJ

Another labour success

The number of assaults in New Zealand’s prisons has spiked dramatically – and a former Corrections officer says modern management is to blame for an increasing power imbalance between inmates and staff.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/11/former-corrections-officer-suggests-modern-management-to-blame-for-spike-in-assaults-in-new-zealand-prisons.html
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November 1, 2020 12:24pm
BananaLlama

It will be very interesting to see whether they put the proposed electoral reform to a plebiscite or not.
3 2
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November 1, 2020 1:53pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Reporter to Pete Buttigieg “So you’re saying people are asking you to take their guns away?”
Pete “Yeah, I say I’m going to take your guns” and they say “Come and get them”
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November 1, 2020 2:18pm
- rangitoto
  
  As Leonidas said to Xerxes – μολὼν λαβέ.
  
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  November 1, 2020 3:09pm
Jack5

State Radio, State TV, Stuff out on a limb …

From Radio NZ web site:

The latest poll from Research New Zealand set out to gauge support for New Zealand changing its name to ‘Aotearoa’ or ‘Aotearoa New Zealand’, but only 10 per cent of people agreed New Zealand should change its name, while a fifth of Kiwi respondents (20 per cent ) agreed New Zealand should become a republic.

Pollster reports on these questions:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018770794
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November 1, 2020 2:50pm
Agricola

Why we hate the mainstream media. The vermin at AP blame the French for being attacked by jihadist scum.
https://apnews.com/article/boycotts-paris-middle-east-western-europe-france-ee594f94f34f4d7e04d12a60b67eacc1?utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP
6 3
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November 1, 2020 3:10pm
Fletch

Who is Trump really running against?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78eWdDoUPJI
3 3
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November 1, 2020 4:14pm
- RJ
  
  It’s no secret
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQKFY_hR7yA
  
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  November 1, 2020 4:58pm
RJ

I agree Joe, it is a right to have badakathcare

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upn0xT–zOg
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November 1, 2020 5:18pm
Kiwi_in_Paris

Has [del. mod.] been a naughty it?

https://tfipost.com/2020/07/jacinda-ardern-is-under-probe-for-alleged-links-with-ccp-that-makes-kiwi-politics-completely-sinophilic/
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November 1, 2020 10:01pm

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