General Debate 06 January 2021

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Maggie Pie

And this just in from Boris.

BLOODY NORA!

http://shr.gs/Cpmc2dB
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January 6, 2021 8:18am
- Scott
  
  Maggie – people are infected with the virus but most people recover and for many people they have little or no symptoms. So this emphasis on cases and infections is just more fear mongering to justify the most severe limitations on freedom and the most extreme government actions ever taken by a western democratic government.
  
  Here is a couple of points to consider. Do lockdowns even work? Britain has been locked down for most of 2020 and if Boris has his way they will be locked down for substantially half of 2021. Lockdowns don’t seem to be working?
  
  Would it make sense to have a harm minimisation approach where you protect the elderly and the vulnerable with pre-existing conditions and everyone else can get on with their life? Because right now Boris, a supposedly conservative politician, is destroying British society and the British economy. And lots of other medical cases are not being treated because everything appears to be about Covid.
  
  English cricketer Moeen Ali has tested positive for Covid. No one thinks he is going to die. Everyone thinks that he will have a quarantine period and once that is over he will resume training. The young and the healthy should not be locked down for a virus that poses little or no threat to them.
  
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  January 6, 2021 8:25am
  - artemisia
    
    Someone called it a ‘casedemic’. Seems fair.
    
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    January 6, 2021 8:45am
    - kowtow
      
      The fact you have to be tested to know whether you have/had it at all leads sensibly to the term “shamdemic”.
      
      And yes people do get it , do get sick , do die . But the vast majority of deaths are of the very old and others are already unwell .
      
      The danger now is politicians’ who are poll driven fools and fearful of the overly powerful media taking action that literally has the potential to collapse the world economy.
      
      The consequences of that far outweigh the marginally premature deaths of a relative few elderly folk.
      
      Trump was one of the very few world leaders who actually has a clue. And look at how hard the Media Pardy , the Establishment and Luvvies worked at de legitimising him.
      
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      January 6, 2021 9:03am
    - tf78
      
      artemisia – that was The Don some months ago.
      
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      January 6, 2021 9:17am
    - Doctor Sigmund Freud
      
      The coronavirus-19 crisis is essentially a panic for fuckwits.
      
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      January 6, 2021 9:41am
      - Lance
        
        So the overwhelmed intensive care facilities are just an elaborate hoax?
        
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        January 6, 2021 10:22am
      - kowtow
        
        ‘overwhelmed intensive care facilities’
        
        Happens world over during severe ‘flu seasons , nothing new there.
        
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        January 6, 2021 10:39am
      - ISeeRed
        
        The ICU teams appeared more overwhelmed practicing their TikTok dance routines.
        
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        January 6, 2021 10:56am
      - Harriet
        
        ‘overwhelmed intensive care facilities’
        
        Multiple videos are emerging all over the internet of people in England walking through empty ICU wards.
        
        https://xyz.net.au/2021/01/videos-of-empty-icu-wards-prove-coronavirus-pandemic-is-a-hoax/
        
        i reported you by mistake.
        
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        January 6, 2021 11:23am
  - Doctor Sigmund Freud
    
    I would rather have 80 thousand Kiwis drop dead on the streets of New Zealand than live under a police-doctors-scientists-Labour-National tyranny which will be never ending (clue: mission creep – global warming fraud).
    
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    January 6, 2021 8:55am
    - IC5000
      
      > I would rather have 80 thousand Kiwis drop dead on the streets of New Zealand than live under a police-doctors-scientists-Labour-National tyranny which will be never ending
      
      Would you hold the same opinion of those 80k included you and your whole extended family?
      
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      January 6, 2021 4:57pm
  - MCos
    
    So your solution would have been to lock up all the 75+ away from society, including their family, and let the virus run rampant through the rest of society?
    Confined to their homes for a year now. No trips to the beach, the football, supermarket, church, see the grandkids, smell the roses . . . . .
    
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    January 6, 2021 8:58am
    - fernglas
      
      On a voluntary basis, why not? Nobody seems to have bothered asking those who are most at risk. There has just been this bunch of technocrats and politicians deciding what is best for them. If people over 75 want to be shielded, why shouldn’t they? Conversely, if they wish to take their not unreasonable chances, let them do it. Three quarters of UK deaths from Covid are those over 75. Based on yesterdays stats, that is 600 per day, or 18,000 per year. There are 5.4 million people in the UK over 75
      
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      January 6, 2021 9:33am
      - fernglas
        
        Shoulod read 180,000, but remember, this is the peak and with the infection rates I mention below, the actual riskd are lower.
        
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        January 6, 2021 10:18am
    - cmm
      
      If you’re in the USA, under 65 and in reasonable health then you have more chance of dying in a car crash.
      
      Let that sink in.
      It makes zero sense to be fearful of CV19 unless you’re as fearful every time you see a car drive by.
      
      Even at the height of this pandemic twice as many people in the USA are dying from cancer and heart diseases – even allowing for the fact that most of the CV19 “victims” are dying with CV19 rather than from CV19.
      
      No, it is not any worse than a BAD flu. It certainly is not up there with Spanish flu, HK flu or such.
      
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      January 6, 2021 2:29pm
- fernglas
  
  If 1.2 million Brits currently have the virus then the country will have the 70% required for herd immunity by August. Just over 1 million have been vaccinated in the UK since the vaccine was rolled out on 8 December. At that rate, the vaccine will take about 4 years to achieve the same.
  
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  January 6, 2021 8:56am
  - kowtow
    
    A yougov poll shows 79% support in Britain for the lockdown . I wonder how that would hold up after a couple of more lock downs , cos that’s wot’s going to happen.
    
    I think it also shows the power of the media covid porn campaign , having frightened so many people literally out of their wits . Goebbels would be so proud.
    
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    January 6, 2021 9:33am
    - cmm
      
      Poms just don’t have the backbone that they used to have.
      
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      January 6, 2021 2:30pm
Simon

Jan 6 Ted Cruz & other Senators are calling for a 10 day audit of the election vote counting. Verification of the 2020 election. Wide spread creditable allegations of fraud can be put to rest. Thats it.

(Our mighty host wants Ted Cruz and others arrested and imprisoned for this. Ho hum. )

Nearly all of Trump court cases, not the Kraken rubbish, were thrown out of court based on lack of standing or other mickey mouse procedural issues. SCOTUS threw out the Texas suit based on lack of standing. A very stupid mistake and leaves the US where it currently is.
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January 6, 2021 8:24am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Today we will have it confirmed which is more democratic, North Korea or USA
  Or should I Say North Korea and Georgia, they get to choose for all the United States
  
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  January 6, 2021 8:45am
- fernglas
  
  “Nearly all of Trump court cases, not the Kraken rubbish, were thrown out of court based on lack of standing or other mickey mouse procedural issues.” Rubbish. They were all thrown out on the merits, other than the Texas case in the Supreme Court.
  
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  January 6, 2021 8:58am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Read the Court decisions. They were all virtually dismissed under the too hard basket, “lack of standing” or “Laches”, (out of time). Not necessarily unreasonable, as most Courts shy clear of serious political issues–they prefer to let the Pollies fight it out.
    
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    January 6, 2021 5:05pm
- MCos
  
  “SCOTUS threw out the Texas suit based on lack of standing. A very stupid mistake”
  
  Why don’t you go over there and offer to rewrite their laws.
  
  Places like Thailand love guys like you. There when an opposition party threatens to upset the government at an election they keep taking challenges to court until something sticks.
  The difference is the court is totally biased, so it’s a one way street.
  The US Supreme Court, although it is packed with Trump appointees, still remains neutral.
  
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  January 6, 2021 9:12am
- thirteenstars
  
  “Our mighty host wants Ted Cruz and others arrested and imprisoned for this.”
  
  Well, the precedent has been set. National need never challenge an electorate count or any other such thing that might suggest they are disputing the outcome of an election, or those here childishly accusing Trump of staging a “coup”, or of “sedition”, would be required on principle (cough, cough) to label such objectors and their objections likewise.
  
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  January 6, 2021 11:24am
Benedict Yu

I read through the Biden climate change policies this morning. Not thoroughly but enough to understand the intent.

The rhetoric is remarkably similar to that of Jacinda. Heavy on spending gigantic amounts of government money and setting up teams of experts. But no mention of the two big sources of USA emissions and what it would take if the Government wants to drive down emissions.

Number one. Coal fired power stations. Easiest way would be a carbon tax to drive up the cost of coal and make renewables or nuclear cost effective. Oops. That would increase electricity costs. It would drive more factories out of the USA and make consumers unhappy.

Number two. America’s love affair with large SUVs and pickup trucks. A love affair fueled literally by cheap gasoline. Solution.. Well obvious. Big hikes in the price of gas. Bingo people switch to hybrids. No more Rambo SUVs.

But Biden will tackle neither of these central solutions. He will just create a giant expensive mess and hand out subsidies to happy solar panel buyers and “smart building” woke rich people.

It would actually be WAY easier to reduce emissions in the USA than in New Zealand. But not without increasing costs to consumers and industry. And Biden just like Jacinda will not face that reality. I suspect Biden does not understand thermodynamics and economics any better than Jacinda.

I am not a Trump fan at all. But if the rest of his policies are as dopy as his climate change policies, Biden will be a bad president.
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January 6, 2021 8:26am
- cmm
  
  They also forget that doubling (or more) the size of the EV fleet is going to require more electricity generation that they don’t have (and will have less of due to shutting down coal).
  
  Electricity supply is always on a knife edge anyway because nobody wants to build generation capacity that is not going to be used (or might be shut down by some nutcase). California already has rolling black outs like a third world country.
  
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  January 6, 2021 8:37am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    This is why the promotion of, and belief in, rainbow-farting unicorns by sweet, kind & pure political leaders in the current zeitgeist, is utterly essential…
    
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    January 6, 2021 9:13am
  - Justitia
    
    California has rolling blackouts because the Brown dynasty, with their oil and gas interests, shut down the nuclear industry there. Harris is part of their coterie. The US is headed for an energy deficit under the Biden clownocracy.
    
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    January 6, 2021 11:49am
- cmm
  
  Is it really easier to reduce emissions in USA than NZ?
  
  They have much harsher winters than we do and need their heating. They also have relatively few opportunities for hydro etc.
  
  Here we could reduce our emissions by 40% or so by fixing the broken accounting used to measure agricultural emissions. Farming is carbon capture (ie. has negative emissions) but they screw it all up and get that wrong.
  
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  January 6, 2021 9:21am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I am fairly confident it is way easier technically. But it will raise power prices. They could switch from coal to natural gas. How do you (significantly) reduce New Zealand emissions in the power sector? You can’t because most of it is zero emissions to start with.
    
    And as I have commented before out transport fleet in New Zealand is shaped around what New Zealanders can afford to pay for a car. And for a lot of the population that is well less than $10,000.
    
    Back to America – it is simply impossible to take seriously any efforts to tackle emissions when they have such cheap gas. I just checked. The price of gas in the USA today at the pump is between 0.50 and 0.65 US cents per litre. And I had to double check to make sure I converted from gallons to litres correctly.
    
    So the solution to reducing US transport emissions is obvious. But good luck with that. Americans are conditioned that these prices are normal.
    
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    January 6, 2021 10:03am
    - cmm
      
      Switching from coal to natural gas is a huge outlay because few systems are set up for dual fuel.
      
      Is US 65c really that cheap? Out fuel price is about the same if you leave out the road user charges component.
      
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      January 6, 2021 2:34pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Is US 65c really that cheap? Out fuel price is about the same if you leave out the road user charges component.”
        
        Yes that is my point.
        
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        January 6, 2021 4:03pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Without farming, we would fast become a bankrupt basket case country the Chinese would seek to bail out (iaw their terms of course). IMO they would love to have a food basket in the South Pacific and I’m afraid Australia may just prove too difficult for them unless of course they elect a Labor Govt.
    
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    January 6, 2021 11:02am
    - Bob
      
      The World Communist movement has been seeking a South Pacific Military Base since WW2; may happen sooner than you realise.
      
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      January 6, 2021 12:10pm
      - Nickc2
        
        North Port, Auckland or Tauranga?
        
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        January 6, 2021 1:08pm
- Gazza the Giant
  
  If you listened to Bidens bumbling words during the election, you will hear several similar words that Ardern pontificates over , these words are simple UN bullshit weasel words , dont be fooled , the world order is clearly fact
  
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  January 6, 2021 1:31pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The electric car solution. The vehicle is on sale as well as domestic and industrial power plants. Maxwell Chikumbutsu of Zibabwe seems to have accomplished what Tesla tried for. (Sales details are on the Facebook site.)
  https://www.saithgroup.com/ev/
  
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  January 6, 2021 5:16pm
Tony Stuart

Is Kane Williamson now our best ever batsman? I’ve been following cricket in New Zealand since the early 1960’s, and I’m now happy to say that he is the best I have seen in my lifetime.

He passed 7000 test runs yesterday, and is now only a couple of hundred career runs behind Ross Taylor, in 20 fewer tests. His test scores this summer have been 251 v WI at Hamilton, 129 and 21 v Pakistan at Tauranga and 238 v Pakistan at Christchurch, 644 runs in three matches at an average of 161.

The key to Williamson’s game is how late he plays the ball, giving him a fraction more time. Technically, he plays the ball right under his eyes, which gives him far greater control. He was already the #1 ranked batsman in the world before yesterday’s innings; he’s certainly confirmed that ranking. And those, especially from the sub-continent, who complain that he only scores runs at home should note that 11 of his 24 hundreds have been scored OUTSIDE New Zealand, in India, Australia, England, the West Indies, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and against Pakistan at Sharjah.
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January 6, 2021 8:28am
- alex Masterley
  
  Can’t disagree with you Tony, although I think Glen Turner in his prime would have given Kane Williamson a run for his money.
  Williamson has steel under that un-assuming appearance. It was demonstrated early in his career against the South Africans when he took a hit to his arm and kept batting despite have a large lump there. His decision making continues to show that steel.
  
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  January 6, 2021 8:38am
  - GazzaW
    
    I agree with you both regarding Williamson Tony & Alex. However, for me the most exciting prospect in the current Black Caps is Kyle Jamieson. I have been watching Jamieson develop over the last two or three seasons and he has the potential to develop into our best all rounder since Richard Hadlee. He has a massive talent in a giant physical frame and at 26 years of age has been carefully nurtured by NZC before releasing him on to the international scene.
    
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    January 6, 2021 9:00am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Agree wholeheartedly Gazza. I think Jamieson could develop into a world class all-rounder, and I’m pleased that NZC l;et him fill out his 2 mtre frame before rushing him in to international cricket. The only question mark over him is how he will far on pitches outside New Zealand, but he’s done everything right so far.
      
      And to illustrate why this current side is so good, it not only contains three of the top six wicket-takers in NZ test history, but four of the ten highest run-scorers for New Zealand. All we are lacking is a top-flight spinner.
      
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      January 6, 2021 9:52am
      - alex Masterley
        
        In the background I have the test match playing on the TV.
        Jamieson now has the figures of 2-1!!!!!.
        Spectacular.
        The lad has promise indeed.
        
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        January 6, 2021 12:11pm
      - GazzaW
        
        …..and a batting average of 51 which ain’t half bad! I wonder which IPL side will pick him up and financially underwrite his future.
        
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        January 6, 2021 12:53pm
    - Gazza the Giant
      
      Best all rounder since Hadlee? hmm , i think we have had better all rounders , Hadlees Test batting stats were not that flash , average if i am correct was under 30 , we have had Cairns and Oram, even De Grohomme, yes, Hadlee was a strike baller who batted a bit, Cairns i think was a strike baller , he should have concentrated more on his balling.
      
      Agree over Jamiseson, he is awesome , 27 wickets at about 13, and batting at 60
      
      [Lol, I’m picking that is ‘accidental’ or subtle? Mod.]
      
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      January 6, 2021 1:37pm
      - Gazza the Giant
        
        Sorry Mods, have not got a clue what you are talking about
        
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        January 6, 2021 2:15pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Gazza: Read your comment again.
        
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        January 6, 2021 4:16pm
- amospicton
  
  I think it’s beyond doubt Tony. I grew up a huge Glenn Turner fan but it’s hard to argue he was ever this good. Martin Crowe pre-injury was as close to Kane as we’ve seen. Unfortunately his body and ‘tortured genius’ mentality prevented him reaching his full potential. It’s hard to compare different eras though, so let’s just enjoy watching Kane while we can.
  
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  January 6, 2021 8:39am
  - pdm
    
    The problem with Glenn Turner is that he walked away from New Zealand cricket when at his peak so we missed out on a number of those years.
    
    There is no doubt though that if you were selecting a greatest NZ Test Team – Turner, Williamson and Crowe would be the first three batsmen picked.
    
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    January 6, 2021 9:24am
    - GazzaW
      
      I always felt sorry for Turner as he was the first Kiwi cricketer to attempt to make a living out of the game and yet Worcestershire paid him peanuts during his long tenure there. In today’s climate Turner would be a wealthy man.
      
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      January 6, 2021 9:38am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Did Turner walk away from New Zealand cricket, or did New Zealand cricket walk away from Turner? I think there was fault on both side pdm, and Walter Hadlee was an uncompromising old bugger.
      
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      January 6, 2021 9:54am
    - oldfella
      
      pdm, I’d like to include Bert Sutcliffe in that greatest NZ Test Team. Hard to compare different generations (and there’s very little footage around of Sutcliffe batting), but I saw a lot of him back in the late 50s/early 60s when I regularly watched Plunket Shield cricket at the old Basin Reserve. He was getting towards the end of his career, but every time I see Kane bat, I can’t help thinking that he and Sutcliffe together would have been formidable.
      
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      January 6, 2021 10:13am
      - pdm
        
        Inv – moot point because Turner was as single minded as Walter Hadlee.
        
        Oldfella – Sutcliffe would have to open to make my team the top 6 being: Turner, Sutcliffe?, Williamson, Crowe, Donnelly and JR Reid.
        
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        January 6, 2021 12:05pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    You also have to remember that until the Wright/Edgar partnership, Turner opened with Wright to provide a left right combination. Until Crowe, NZ struggled at No. 3 with Geoff Howarth – a very good tactical capital, but his form was unreliable with the bat in the early 1980s.
    
    When any of Turner, Wright, Edgar or M. Crowe were on form, NZ had a solid batting line up.
    
    As for the record books it is always difficult to measure the records of sportsmen from different eras. Who knows how Sutcliffes, the Reids (both), Turner or M. Crowe would perform today?
    
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    January 6, 2021 12:16pm
- Frank the tank
  
  Crowe was technically a better batsman and played the majority on his career on wickets suited to Hadlee and co that were anything but good batting wickets. Same for a lot of players in the era – Wright, Edgar, Reid (RIP) – you should be adding 5 onto all their averages to reflect modern pitches/batting conditions.
  
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  January 6, 2021 9:20am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Whether Crowe was technically better is moot (I saw much more of Crowe live, but I believe Kane shades him, just) but the stats don’t lie.
    
    I’ll give you an extra 5 on Crowe’s test average of 45.36, which gets him to just over 50 – the benchmark for world class batsmen. Still doesn’t get him close to Kane’s test average of 54.31, including his 4th double ton from yesterday. Crowe made one double century, getting out on 299.
    
    I’ll give you another 5 on Crowe’s ODI average of 38.55 (with 4 centuries), it still doesn’t get him close to Kane’s ODI average of 47.48 (with 13 centuries).
    
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    January 6, 2021 10:29am
    - amospicton
      
      I think the thing about Crowe was that when he felt good he was phenomenal – so elegant, so powerful and so composed. But he had periods when he didn’t feel right – both physically and mentally and in those periods his performance suffered in comparison. Kane is more robust and doesn’t have these dips. At his peak though Crowe was absolutely majestic.
      
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      January 6, 2021 10:44am
      - MCos
        
        Martin Crowe was selected to play test cricket at 19 years before he was ready. Furthermore the changing room in those days wasn’t very friendly.
        Once he found his feet he was imperious at the crease plus an outstanding fielder and a pretty good bowler.
        Kane Williamson scored 131 in his first test, in India, at aged 20.
        
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        January 6, 2021 7:50pm
Maggy Wassilieff

So NIWA accepts Whakatāne’s 2020 sunshine hours of 2704, but rejected Whakatāne’s 2008 value of 2703 hours because it seemed much higher than the previous year’s total.

NIWA’s record of sunshine hours for other regions of NZ shows that 2008 was a very sunny year.

A very sunny year, especially in Hawke’s Bay, and the south of the South Island
It was a sunny year everywhere, with nowhere in New Zealand recording below normal sunshine totals. Sunshine hours were more than 115 percent of normal in central areas of the North Island, Hawke’s Bay, south Canterbury, coastal Southland and eastern Otago. Turangi, Dannevirke, Waipawa, and Invercargill experienced their sunniest years on record.

https://niwa.co.nz/climate/summaries/annual/2008

It looks to me that NIWA has rejected a valid record.
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January 6, 2021 8:41am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Sorry,
  here’s the link to the Whakataane story
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/434071/whakatane-reclaims-sunniest-title-come-enjoy-our-sunshine-with-us-mayor
  
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  January 6, 2021 8:43am
  - fernglas
    
    It looks like NIWA was using Trumpian logic back in 2008, Maggy.
    
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    January 6, 2021 10:29am
- Loddenthinks
  
  2008? Maybe time to let it go Maggy.
  
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  January 6, 2021 9:04am
- Ruahine
  
  When I was growing up in the Hawkes Bay I just loved the Long Hot Summers. Swimming at Waimarama and in the rivers and sleeping outside at night on the warm ground listening to all the night noises. Can’t understand why these days if we get a few warm sunny days it is some how some sort of disaster looming. Just wish these damn professional gloom makers would get a life.
  
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  January 6, 2021 10:56am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Ruahine, for me it was long hot summer days at the Coronation Pool in Dannevirke.
    
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    January 6, 2021 12:17pm
    - Nickc2
      
      I used to swim there too. Small world.
      
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      January 6, 2021 1:55pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        Yes, Dannevirke is. My Grandmother lived in Ranfurly St, so most Christmas and May holidays were spent there, until she took ill. My father’s family were from the districts around Dannevirke.
        
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        January 6, 2021 3:13pm
hullkiwi

Note to self. Watching TV News (or reading NZ newssources) is not good for:
1. Informing me of anything;
2. Good for my temperament; and
3. Makes me gloomy about the IQ of the average New Zealander.

Last night’s news, the first 3 items last night left one wondering, as 5o whether:
1. The journalist has a clue as to whether what they are saying makes them look stupid;
2. Whether by what they are saying reflects that either they or their colleagues are not doing the job they are paid to do. That is ask questions until you get answers that will properly inform people when you broadcast; and
3. Whether news editors are equally stupid.

The first 3 items that I’m referring to were:
1. Rain storms in Otago ruining crops – giving a “sad” tale of woe for orchardists trying to justify over priced and damaged stock getting 5o supermarkets;
2. Gang shootings, with an interview of Carhill (the Secretary of the Police Assoc) telling us how important it is to have a register of guns – both MrsHK and I were bewildered how anybody can take that man seriously;
3. The Bay Festival and a piece about dangerous party drugs circulating. The piece contained interviews with spokesperson (idiot) from Know your stuff & someone from the DHB also expressing concern that people be mindful of Covid. This based on a story about people at a music festival, where the chance of people observing any protocols about Covid are zero! Besides we are told daily, there is no community transmission of Covid in NZ. Or is that another lie?
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January 6, 2021 8:49am
- Frank the tank
  
  LOL. Sounds like every time I watch WokeOneNews as well.
  
  Pumping us full of stories from Little Aotearoa. I fully expect Matt Lucas and David Williams to start presenting the news within the next 6 months.
  
  Unfortunately the irony would be lost on little Aotearoans.
  
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  January 6, 2021 9:23am
  - Sacha
    
    I stopped looking at TV News about 2 days after the media discovered Jacinda Ardern. The sycophantic adoration was sick- making, and I couldn’t do that to myself.
    Haven’t missed it at all, and I still somehow keep up with whats happening.
    And I have learnt to be very selective about radio too. I just can’t be bothered with endless ill-informed and opinionated ‘discussions’ about the US president/elections.
    Or covid.
    I’m pretty much self-isolating in all respects. The news gets through.
    
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    January 6, 2021 1:32pm
- curry4me
  
  hullkiwi: The best two places for a TV set are TradeMe, or the nearest recycling center.
  
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  January 6, 2021 9:57am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Best use Netflix or a computer monitor.
    
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    January 6, 2021 3:14pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I have not watched for years unless I am involuntarily exposed in an airport lounge or something.
  
  One of the (many) odd things about TV news is the “weather” segment at the end. Why would you sit in front of stupid TV for 5 mins to find out what the weather is in your home town (or travel destination) when you can get out your phone and in less than 10 seconds get all the detail you need of forecast weather for the next 48 hours. Surely SOMEONE has asked “Hey I know we have been doing the weather like this every night for the last 50 years, but……”
  
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  January 6, 2021 10:10am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Benedict where we live, i agree, as you say the phone, or walk out the front door for the weather.
    
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    January 6, 2021 3:16pm
  - Clyde
    
    10 minutes of that Dan character posing and pontificating is 10 minutes too long. Just go onto the Norwegian weather site and get an accurate and BS free forecast. https://www.yr.no/en
    
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    January 6, 2021 4:57pm
  - IC5000
    
    > Why would you sit in front of stupid TV for 5 mins to find out what the weather is in your home town
    
    Because older people in NZ have a routine. Get home from work, have dinner and then watch the news. They’re not glued to some device 24/7, they actually have conversations around the weather around the country and their plans for the next day.
    
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    January 6, 2021 5:03pm
- Lance
  
  I think you will find the reason produce is expensive is not due to the growers. They get 2/10’s of bugger all compared to the supermarket shelf prices.
  
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  January 6, 2021 10:30am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Lance, they are complaining that they stand to lose significant amounts this season, because they can’t sell damaged stock abroad at premium prices.
    
    However, the truth is:
    1. They all have insurance for weather risk;
    2. If the crop can’t be sold to retail , it is sold for food processing; and
    3. Their product is still in the supermarket.
    
    As for the belief the growers don’t earn much, not so. They with their industry sector association help ensure that retail prices are within price ranges that the consumer pays. The duopoly that is the dominant player is a willing participant in the sham that is “the competitive retail sector”.
    
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    January 6, 2021 10:57am
    - Lance
      
      Not what I said, what I said was the growers get a small percentage of the final price you see.
      They therefore need to grow a lot to make it worthwhile.
      
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      January 6, 2021 12:42pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        Lance, I read what you wrote and beg to differ. Trust me, the grower may only get a percentage of the overall end price, but it is not insignificant, if it was they could always opt to leave the industry. And you don’t hear of too many orchardists or market gardeners taking that option.
        
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        January 6, 2021 3:22pm
hullkiwi

Silly question, why with the new variant of Covid so rampant across the UK, was has the govt decided on 15th Jan until they make it mandatory for people flying from the UK to prove they have a recent negative test result for Covid?

It don’t add up.
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January 6, 2021 8:52am
- marcw
  
  ‘Ardern early HK, their definition.
  
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  January 6, 2021 9:09am
- KevO'Brien
  
  How can they test for a new strain?–that can take another year to detect with reasonable certainty.
  It look more and more like PCR testing provides the positives required for lockdown,
  
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  January 6, 2021 5:21pm
Happychappy

So the Ministry of Health are still towing the Labour Goverment message on problems that occurred over Covid-

19 with the 71.5 million dollar write down of PPE it had on hand. Like Jacinda Ardern it’s always someone else is fault never their own, about 37 million spent on PPE witch was defective or raised quality concerns and while the remaining 34.5 million was a result of equipment that was bought when equipment prices were at a premium. Association of Salaried Medical Practitioners Unionhead Sarah Dalton said the defective equipment was a consequence of not enough proactive investment in the public sector, which left the Ministry on the back foot when Covid-19 emerged.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/ministry-health-spent-37-million-ppe-defective-had-quality-concerns
Labour were in power for over two years before Covid- 19 hit our shores and they are still prepared to blame the previous Government for all their own or their Health mistakes and the public have to wait for months for our main stream media to print the truth.
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January 6, 2021 8:53am
- tf78
  
  Happy, like I said the other day “New Zealand, the land where the buck never stops”.
  
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  January 6, 2021 9:47am
Maggie Pie

And a big shoutout to everyone who said they would start eating healthy in the new year but have decided to wait until February 😀
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January 6, 2021 8:59am
cmm

Are mediums psychic? If so surely they would have known that their dog was going to get shot? Perhaps he can only figure out murders when there’s a lot of dosh floating around.

Still tough having some dickheads shoot your pet.

This guy is supposedly making videos about responsible gun ownership and doesn’t seem to know some of the basics about the law.

“It’s in police hands now because it’s a .22 and you have to have it registered”

Err nope.

“while he doesn’t know who shot her, it was possibly young people under the influence of alcohol….. said the campaigner against alcohol and firearms.”

C’mon if you can sense murders surely you can do better than that.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/absolutely-devastated-celebrity-medium-kelvin-cruickshanks-pet-dog-shot/ZCB7HNKNFCAEEHSG7TJVWKALDM/
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January 6, 2021 9:14am
- hullkiwi
  
  Solution, if you want information/news that makes sense, read a website other than the Horrid.
  
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  January 6, 2021 9:19am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Yes very tough having your pet shot twice, I have sympathy for him and his partner (and the wee dog). As I understand it, Cruickshank is not against alcohol, and he’s not against firearms, being a hunter himself. He’s against mixing the two, which makes more sense.
  
  “I love my hunting but I’ve seen too many things and alcohol and guns don’t mix – you should leave the drinks until the guns have been put away.”
  
  As far as his day job goes, he’s an out-and-out charlatan and should be locked up for false pretences and fraud. Why do you never see the headline “Psychic wins lottery!”? They say that “it doesn’t work like that, you can’t use your gift to make money” at the same time as they’re spruiking their next show or 0900 line to do exactly that. At least if they win the lottery it’s honestly earned.
  
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  January 6, 2021 9:41am
- pdm
  
  Question of the day:
  
  Is it possible for a Medium to be a Celebrity – as the Herald infers?
  
  I should have thought you would need to be Excellent to attain Celebrity status.
  
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  January 6, 2021 9:59am
New Zealander

I have to wonder whether David Farrar’s continued hatred for the President of the United States of America is symptomatic of the confusion on the right in New Zealand, led by hopeless mainstream “centre-right” commentators and MPs who are more concerned with schmoozing and being popular than winning the fight for our future.

The way the right is capitulating across the world in the face of a culture war, it will be no surprise if China becomes the world’s leading superpower this decade.
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January 6, 2021 9:28am
- Doctor Sigmund Freud
  
  China made remarkable progress in the 1960s in developing nuclear weapons. In a thirty-two-month period, China successfully exploded its first atomic bomb (October 16, 1964), launched its first nuclear missile (October 25, 1966), and detonated its first hydrogen bomb (June 14, 1967).
  
  FIFTY SEVEN years later isn’t it a bit precious for Australia to whinge and whine that China MAY be a security threat???
  
  Serves them bloody right!
  
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  January 6, 2021 9:43am
  - Nickc2
    
    Disagree Dr. Australia are fully aware of the threat China poses and is steadily building up their military forces every time there is a Coalition Govt. in charge of the treasury benches. However, they do suffer setbacks whenever a Labor Govt. is elected. Like our Govt, their Labour Party are very much pro China.
    
    To add to their current Govt’s. problems, they have a few rogue states like Victoria who signed with the Chinese Belt and Road movement and the Northern Territories who leased the Port of Darwin to the Chinese on 99-year lease terms.
    
    Should a conflict with China eventuate, you can rest assured that so long as there is a Coalition Govt. in power, Australia will not roll over like a dog with its legs in the air and wait for China to come and rub its stomach.
    
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    January 6, 2021 11:23am
- Tall Man
  
  A comment worth breaking my no comment rule for…. I think you’re bang on
  
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  January 6, 2021 9:47am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I’ve asked here on a few occasions if anyone knew where you were Tall Man.
    
    Welcome back!
    😀
    
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    January 6, 2021 11:05am
    - Tall Man
      
      Always lurking Maggie just keeping my powder dry
      
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      January 6, 2021 1:56pm
- curry4me
  
  New Zealander: The technical name for what’s going on is re-traditionalization. Populists don’t trust politicians, academics, and the MSM to look after their interests; or reflect their values. It’s not about left and right. There isn’t a great deal of difference between National, and Labour. They’re both globalist parties. National run Labour’s policies more competently. Globalists want everything to be like McDonalds. Nationalist-Populists prefer home cooking.
  
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  January 6, 2021 10:03am
- hullkiwi
  
  Like most Trump supporters, you make the mistake of confusing Trump with true right of centre philosophical thinking. This then clouds your judgment when people show contempt for Trump.
  
  Until 2015, Trump was not a member of the Republican Party, and had been known to be a Democratic supporter. The fact Trump and few well placed Republicans saw an opportunity, is now a matter of history.
  
  While it is easy to say that H. Clinton was not a good choice for the Democrats, Trump’s credentials in 2016 were no better and he was an equally poor choice for the Republican Party long term.
  
  Much of the rhetoric about Trump’s economic success, is just that rhetoric. The US economy was already improving as Trump was being sworn in, and so had nothing to do with him. In truth, other than threatening trade wars or tax cuts for Republican Party super rich, it is hard to discern anything Trump did to improve the US economy. Just as you and others would happily point to “Trump’s successful management of the US economy 2017 to 2019”, are you prepared to say he failed in 2020? Or was that all the fault of Covid?
  
  I can only see 4 successful areas of policy resulting from Trump’s tenure as President, these are:
  1. The shift in the balance of power in the SCOTUS;
  2. He is the first POTUS to try and develop a heads of govt dialogue with North Korea (the success of this debatable);
  3. He was the first president since Ford to withdraw US troops from operations abroad;
  4. He called the Paris Climate accord for what it was, a fraud. But he didn’t have an alternative or bring other countries with him.
  
  Contrary to his much vaunted 2016 slogan, he didn’t “Make America Great Again” and he didn’t “Drain the Swamp”.
  
  He was a dubious “New York property tycoon” prior to 2015, and that is what he will revert to on 21st January, albeit he will also be able to say he was the 45th President of the US.
  
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  January 6, 2021 10:22am
  - hullkiwi
    
    There was a fifth matter that Trump was correct about, that was Iran. But like the Paris
    Acoord, he failed to engage with allies and the result is a shambles.
    
    As for standing up for the mainstream centre right on the international stage, all he has down is pick fights with China. He has done nothing about the thug Putin, or looked at any of the other Communist nations in Asia, Africa or Latin America. Yes, China is a dominant player, but they are not the only country to be concerned about.
    
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    January 6, 2021 10:39am
    - ISeeRed
      
      “Much of the rhetoric about Trump’s economic success, is just that rhetoric. The US economy was already improving as Trump was being sworn in, and so had nothing to do with him. In truth, other than threatening trade wars or tax cuts for Republican Party super rich, it is hard to discern anything Trump did to improve the US economy.””
      
      Firstly, under Obama, low economic growth was stated as the new normal as far as back as 2012. During the recent campaign, Obama said Trump couldn’t bring jobs back from overseas, they were gone for good. So the massive job growth, record low unemployment among minorities and the first decent real wage growth in decades had everything to do with Trump’s policies.
      
      Secondly, Trump’s tax cuts also benefited the Democratic Party super rich, and wage earners in almost all income bands. What you have done is “lie by omission”, which means the rest of your comments aren’t worth addressing since they have been equally made in bad faith.
      
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      January 6, 2021 11:32am
      - hullkiwi
        
        Trump didn’t bring back jobs from abroad. The job growth and real wage growth have been proven to be more because of legal recognition of illegal workers in southern states (what did happen to the wall by the way).
        
        Yes, the tax cuts benefited Democrat super rich too.
        
        Trump did not return jobs to the US. The only company that I know of that “wobbled” about further investment in Asia was Apple. You do not set up (in scale) skilled manufacturing jobs in 3 years as you suggest.
        
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        January 6, 2021 1:34pm
  - New Zealander
    
    I’m not confused at all. Everyone knows Trump isn’t a “traditional” center-right politician. He’s a populist nationalist with a mix of social views.
    
    The right in New Zealand won’t succeed until they can find candidates with the same toughness and ability to speak to voters that Trump has shown.
    
    Instead it will probably be Luxon trying to beat Ardern at her own game and leading National to a record defeat in 2023.
    
    Being beaten by such an airhead Prime Minister with a caucus of woke bureaucrats and token brown folks shows how deeply out of touch National and their “inluencers” have become.
    
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    January 6, 2021 10:52am
    - hullkiwi
      
      So, the nub of what you are thinking is:
      1. Trump has a mix of views, but is right wing because he stands up against China;
      2. You are worried that Luxon will be the National Party leader at the next election;
      3. That Luxon will have woke views; and
      4. Because of the above he will lead National to another thumping in 2023.
      
      My you do draw a long bow. The only point t I’ll agree with you on, is that National may get thumped in 2023 by Ardern, but that is nothing to do with a lack of right wing principles, but more to do with the National party itself.
      
      The issues for National are
      1. how it presents a message to the sheeple that resonates with them; and
      2. How to do it in a manner that doesn’t rely on the NZ MSM.
      
      Waiting for circumstances to hand National victory in 2023 is a big ask, as highlighted by Key at the party conference in November.
      
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      January 6, 2021 11:50am
      - New Zealander
        
        Key can talk all he wants, but half the people who voted for him are now voting for Ardern. National have nobody that is going to beat her at globalism and kindness. National have no idea how to articulate an alternative vision of New Zealand that appeals to most of us. So it’s either going to be more of the same with a different face or actually being brave enough to move away from globalism and wokeness. I doubt they have the guts or ability to do it, and thus my vote will go elsewhere.
        
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        January 6, 2021 2:32pm
  - IC5000
    
    > and had been known to be a Democratic supporter.
    
    Ah so that’s where Trump gets his racist views from then as some posters keep reminding us the the Democratic Party are really the KKK is disguise.
    
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    January 6, 2021 5:06pm
- Lance
  
  Are you seriously trying to say that unless you are a Trump supporter you are against freedom?
  
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  January 6, 2021 10:40am
- Harriet
  
  “….The way the right is capitulating across the world in the face of a culture war, it will be no surprise if China becomes the world’s leading superpower this decade….”
  
  Their ‘leading’ doesn’t seem to be working – they are losing ‘friends’ and customers left right and center. Aussie have moved to changing supply lines in a whole range of things. Confucius associations, university associations and the like are being shut down around the world. Japan, India, US, Australia have all formed groups along with Britain and Canada also. Those that signed up to Belt and Road loan deals are all now facing financial or political turmoil of one sort or another.
  
  China will find it increasingly difficult to assert their power, they showed their hand. 😎
  
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  January 6, 2021 11:02am
- Ruahine
  
  I believe it will easily overtake the US if it has not already. It is a nation with social discipline in most aspects of their society. It is enforced certainly by the state but we also have enforced social discipline but only over the Covid induced hysteria. In the meantime murders, bashings and beatings continue.
  
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  January 6, 2021 11:03am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Agree, Having lived and worked there in 90’s.
    its the country (CCP), family then yourself in order of priority.
    What the West does’nt understand is the country is run by 30-40 Highly educated ( University educated world wide) who actually run the country.
    It was under Deng Xi Peng that it ” was ok to introduce capitilism” in conjuncyion with CCP values.
    Of interest, whilst working there we passed a prison. I asked what it was like inside? They said “We dont even lock the gates, We can always find them”. You would understand this if you spent some time there.
    Of note regarding “Belt and Road ” the Chinese understand the “strategic” importance of Ports. Hence building around the world. Dont forget Darwin Port is under Chinese Ownership.
    There was a CEO of North Island Port “making noises” about importance of China and Utilising his Port ( Cant remember which one ).
    There is very close parallels during WW2 when the USA was surprised at the Japanese and how advanced there equipment was ( Zeros, Navy etc) and a famous quote was ” we thought Japanese could only make springs for wound up toys”.
    The reply was along the lines of ” Thats all you wanted so we sold them to you”.
    Sounds like De ja Vous all over again but swap Japan with China.
    Highly educated work force working together for the common goal.
    Whats there not to respect about that, especially compared to USA and last 30 years.
    My 2 bobs
    
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    January 6, 2021 12:21pm
    - towaka
      
      The 90’s are like an age ago when dealing with modern China MM!.. I am amazed at the changes just in the last 5 years here in Guangzhou.
      
      What’s your take on the crazy sea freight prices at the moment?.. I have heard various reasons but prices out of China at the moment are eye watering!
      
      Also concur with your views on China.. the old Confucian values have not gone away.
      
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      January 6, 2021 2:30pm
      - Master Mariner
        
        Morning Towaka, Yes would like to go back too Dalian and Im absolutely sure the changes will surprise me.
        Sea freight prices out of China is down to States and Supply and demand etc and broken supply chains.
        Basically everyone ” piggy backing” of large container vessel + 20,000 teu and requiring “feeder ” vessels for smaller ports.
        It was for 1 Twenty foot equivalent 1500 US from China to US, Now over 4400 USD.
        Throw in costs to shipping companies, crew changes and COVID compliance etc. In effective Port terminals world wide ( POA good example) with NZ really only supplied by 2-3 liner companies.
        Like ive been saying prices in Bunnings will not get cheaper as costs to market have at least trippled in freight costs alone.
        Yes Confuscian values. We still have a lot to learn I guess.
        I for one think NZ should have strategic assets under one control. Ports and airports etc to start with and Marsden Point refinery etc.
        
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        January 6, 2021 4:03pm
curry4me

https://www.wnd.com/2021/01/loomer-klayman-take-big-tech-discrimination-case-supreme-court/

Loomer, Klayman take Big Tech ‘discrimination’ case to Supreme Court.

Laura Loomer, a conservative activist and political candidate, and Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch have filed a petition with the United States Supreme Court charging the “anti-competitive, discriminatory practices” of Google, Facebook, Apple and Twitter violate the Constitution.
Loomer and Klayman first challenged the tech giants in antitrust litigation several years before former Attorney General William Barr raised the issue.
They argue the Big Tech companies’ platforms are a “place of public accommodation,” meaning they are not allowed to censor conservative content.
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January 6, 2021 9:47am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqj6a7q2FLs

Priti Patel STARTS Deportations.

Now Britain is out of the Fourth Reich, its possible
To deport law breakers. The usual suspects are
Less than happy. Well done, minister.
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January 6, 2021 9:48am
Thought Criminal

Nick Cave on cancel culture

“As far as I can see, cancel culture is mercy’s antithesis,” Cave wrote in response to a reader’s question on the subject.

“Political correctness has grown to become the unhappiest religion in the world. Its once-honourable attempt to reimagine our society in a more equitable way now embodies all the worst aspects that religion has to offer (and none of the beauty) — moral certainty and self-righteousness shorn even of the capacity for redemption. It has become, quite literally, bad religion run amuck.”

Cancel culture’s “refusal to engage with uncomfortable ideas”, according to Cave, hampers the creativeness and diversity of society. He wrote that mercy “allows us the ability to engage openly in free-ranging conversation” and acts as a “safety net of mutual consideration”. Without it, “a society loses its soul, and devours itself”.

“Tolerance allows the spirit of enquiry the confidence to roam freely, to make mistakes, to self-correct, to be bold, to dare to doubt and in the process to chance upon new and more advanced ideas. Without mercy, society grows inflexible, fearful, vindictive and humourless,”
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January 6, 2021 10:00am
- oldfella
  
  TC, Rowan Atkinson compares Cancel Culture to medieval mobs. He’s not wrong…
  https://summit.news/2021/01/05/comedian-rowan-atkinson-cancel-culture-like-a-medieval-mob/
  Might be worth someone trying to get him out to NZ (covid permitting), at some stage to speak publicly about the dangers of limiting so called ‘hate speech’. He’d get a lot of publicity for the free speech cause just be being here and even Stuffed and Horrid would find him hard to ignore.
  
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  January 6, 2021 10:37am
Maggie Pie

Just talking to Ma this morning. Couldn’t believe it when she said she can hardly wait for ‘Marcus Lush’ to come back!
Apparently 1ZB have got what she described as some ‘idiot Pom’ filling in while he’s away. He talks about nothing else other than old episodes of Coro Street, Man U, and what an a-hole Trumpy is.
All the while putting on some silly bloody accent that she can hardly understand.

LOL!
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January 6, 2021 10:04am
- pdm
  
  Miles Davis I believe Maggie. Lush is awful but Davis may even head him off so I sympathise with your Ma.
  
  I go to 92.7FM – Magic music.
  
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  January 6, 2021 7:35pm
SB2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
We had the special pleasure of been introduced to newly elected Congresswoman,Lauren Broebert , whose claim to notoriety is bragging about touting her Glock gun around congress and DC ( she can’t do either) Maybe her attention seeking is related to her diminutive size – 5.00 ft She also has or had owned two American Bullpits that a neighbour complained that led to court action.

Nevertheless, she will find good company with Lin Wood, Sidney Powell etc and the other of the unhinged.
We await for her ongoing rants and whether she can fire her “six-shooter” in Congress or local saloon bar.

Otherwise a colossal bore !

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55540155

Why did Jesus kneel in
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January 6, 2021 10:22am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Posted here yesterday that Lauren was my partner’s ‘dream girl’.
  Doubt YOU would have read it……probably too busy downticking everyone.
  
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  January 6, 2021 11:11am
  - SB2
    
    Yes,like just now. What’s the appeal? The pit bulls, the Glock, her diminutive size …?
    
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    January 6, 2021 12:47pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      All of the above 😛
      
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      January 6, 2021 2:27pm
- alloytoo
  
  Glock six shooter?
  nuff said.
  
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  January 6, 2021 1:03pm
Philview

The ODT has used its editorial 2 days running to attack Brexit. A curious priority when there are recent domestic issues that may be worthy of comment such as The Waikeria Prison crisis, NZ’s inward freight crisis, the way the NZ Government buried the report into its Covid management etc

https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/editorial/rule-britannias-brexit-folly
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January 6, 2021 10:27am
- hullkiwi
  
  The Liberal Left still can’t understand that those not living in the elite capitals of Eupore do not want their countries belonging to an elitist gravey train club centred on concentrating power in the hands of a bureaucracy headed by former politicians based in Brussels.
  
  What could people possibly object to?
  
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  January 6, 2021 10:45am
- KiwiSapper
  
  Simple answer.Avoiding doing what he has been paid not to do…and then filling the subsequent gaps with with irrelevant pap.
  
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  January 6, 2021 10:50am
- Thought Criminal
  
  I love how upset the woke are about brexit.
  
  According to my leftist sources the British should all be unemployed and have no sandwiches by now. #sendthebritishsandwiches
  
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  January 6, 2021 12:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Another Covid death.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6zxpgp046xtwuor/ACME%20Covid.jpg?dl=0
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January 6, 2021 10:31am
Fletch

Apple Maps remove the directions to DC where the Trump rally is happening. Big Tech is still corrupt…

https://100percentfedup.com/breaking-apple-maps-reportedly-blocks-directions-to-dc-in-advance-of-massive-trump-stop-the-steal-rally/
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January 6, 2021 10:57am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Google has done it as well
  
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  January 6, 2021 11:14am
- SB2
  
  Fletch, from your link ,
  
  Apple Maps is allegedly blocking directions to Washington DC for millions of users?
  
  Note “allegedly”!
  
  Why not try google maps and use the actual Washington DC location in search.
  
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  January 6, 2021 12:52pm
  - Fletch
    
    Sure, I might be able to do it from here, but how about from an address in America? Plus, I don’t have an iPhone any more.
    
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    January 6, 2021 2:04pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Fuck, now you made him think. Bet it is hurting
      
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      January 6, 2021 3:57pm
Fletch

Apparently in Korea, everyone celebrates their birthday on the first day of the new year. That’s handy, ey?

Koreans essentially have two separate celebrations for what the Western world would consider a birthday: their date of birth, and New Year’s, when everyone turns a year older. Interestingly enough, birthdays and age aren’t related to one another.

Collectively turning a year older gives Koreans a very particular concept of age. Once born, a baby is considered to be one year old, accounting for the time spent in the womb. The baby will turn two not a year after it is born, but on New Year’s. This means that Korean babies born on December 31st turn two on January 1st , even though they would be one day old in the rest of the world.

https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/happy-new-year-you-are-now-a-year-older-in-korea
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January 6, 2021 11:02am
- alwyn
  
  They have clearly been talking to the Racing Fraternity. Every New Zealand racehorse has a birthday on 1 August I believe. Australian ones are clearly a bit slow as theirs isn’t until 1 September.
  So I have been told anyway.
  
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  January 6, 2021 11:52am
- Gravelroad
  
  Same with horses.
  All horses in the Southern Hemisphere turn a year older on August 1st.
  In the northern Hemisphere it is January 1st.
  Apparently part of the racing industry’s attempts at regulations.
  
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  January 6, 2021 12:32pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Covid 19 should be renamed the “Common Core Virus” because none of the math is adding up
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January 6, 2021 11:23am
- SB2
  
  Steve Otto(North Shore, what math is not adding up?
  
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  January 6, 2021 12:54pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Go away troll
    
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    January 6, 2021 2:08pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Actually find a hypnotist that can install a sense of humour for you
      
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      January 6, 2021 3:03pm
Liberty

“Coastal property buyers ignoring climate change threat, expert says”
Once again Stuff promotes its lefty
agenda.
The sea level may be rising. So what.
If you believe the warmist some houses might have water at their door
In 150 -200 years
Most houses change ownership every
10-30yrs so the chance of sea water lapping the door of the current
Owner and quite a few future owners are nil.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/300198336/coastal-property-buyers-ignoring-climate-change-threat-expert-says.
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January 6, 2021 11:28am
- hullkiwi
  
  Obviously Stuff experts have not been to Scandinavia, where the land is rising up out of the sea. This is because the land has been slowly decompressing since the last ice age. Go on a boat cruise around Stockholm’s harbour and you will be told this, as the reason for islands “growing” in size.
  
  Maybe Greta should stay at school and learn about local geography.
  
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  January 6, 2021 11:58am
  - SB2
    
    hullkiwi,
    
    “..But the sea is still rising here; it’s just that the land is rising faster.,..”
    
    https://slate.com/technology/2017/08/why-sea-level-is-falling-in-finland-and-sweden.html
    
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    January 6, 2021 1:01pm
- chukar
  
  Good on them, there is opportunity to aquire coastal property at a cheaper rate because of climate change bullshit.
  Is this deliberate ?
  Just wondering
  
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  January 6, 2021 12:05pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    There’s no shortage of private islands for sale for those with a few bob to spare
    
    https://www.vladi-private-islands.de/en/islands-for-sale/
    
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    January 6, 2021 6:42pm
- cmm
  
  Well it’s a great way to scare the muggles away and get cheap beachfront property.
  
  Print up a few fliers telling folks they need to replace their parking with a boat ramp then come back later and buy the house for a song.
  
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  January 6, 2021 12:29pm
- Okahu
  
  A place beside the water sure can be nice on these glorious summer days so I understand why people live there. But whether they agree or not, a great many scientists and engineers and planners are now warning those assets are likely to be inundated in the future. Given that’s s common knowledge, can a property owner expect expensive defences against inundation be carried out at public cost? If you build on a cliff top should the public purse be on the line if the cliff crumbles?
  
  Perhaps the declaration of a your right to bear all costs incumbent with your decisions is now needed. Zero public money to be available to protect private holdings in known inundation zones. Zero compensation to be aid to those affected by the short sightedness of their decisions. I just know the ’Taxpayers Union’ will be 100% behind that.
  
  Of course that means our resident deniers will be able to make a killing providing insurance to those that traditional insurance companies will spurn as too high a risk. Let the market not the public cover the costs of your decisions then buy and build where you like.
  
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  January 6, 2021 12:36pm
  - freemark
    
    “ Perhaps the declaration of a your right to bear all costs incumbent with your decisions is now needed.”
    Many of us agree I’m sure, as long as this declaration is universal throughout society
    
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    January 6, 2021 9:20pm
- rockape
  
  What is the average life of a house in NZ, 70 years or so?
  
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  January 6, 2021 1:10pm
cmm

Man removed from court for abusing a defendant.

Funny though that they didn’t say a peep about the multiple abuses of Tarrant by the Special People.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/123878257/man-removed-from-courtroom-after-swearing-at-murderaccused-in-dock
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January 6, 2021 11:48am
- Close Hen Counters
  
  Then in the herald, information landlords and tenants need to know about law changes …. behind a paywall! Bloody genius aye
  
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  January 6, 2021 11:51am
  - cmm
    
    What kind of idiot would take legal advice from one of Herald’s “all you need to know” articles?
    
    They can’t get very basic stuff right. What chance are they going to have interpreting laws properly?
    
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    January 6, 2021 3:40pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  If the media didn’t have double standards they’d have no standards at all.
  
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  January 6, 2021 12:26pm
- SB2
  
  cmm,
  
  “..multiple abuses of Tarrant by the Special People.”
  
  ??
  
  Please clarify?
  
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  January 6, 2021 1:04pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    You seem to be unaware of the fact that some families have their victim statements censored by the Judge and they cannot say out loud in Court what they want to say to killer.
    e.g.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/sophies-father-says-judge-censored-him/52ZMKTGLKYLP3YBE6XW2X427QQ/
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/censored-what-sophies-father-gil-could-not-say/MHLQ6SFBY5DLYNWUWKUIRAEXDE/
    
    Such was not the case in Brenton Tarrant’s sentencing:
    ‘The fire awaits you,’ New Zealand mosque killer told
    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/08/26/asia-pacific/crime-legal-asia-pacific/new-zealand-mosque-killer/
    
    Tense scenes played out in the court this week as distraught victims confronted Tarrant, labeling him a “monster,” a “loser” and “the devil.”
    
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/brenton-tarrant-sentence-life-prison-new-zealand-christchurch-mosque-shooting/2020/08/26/ddb9dc2a-e76a-11ea-bf44-0d31c85838a5_story.html
    
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    January 6, 2021 4:46pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING……

Twitter bestie and aspiring ACT candidate ‘Kartini Clark’e outs NZH reporter Ethan Griffiths.

https://twitter.com/kartiniclarke/status/1346244914426777601

CAUTION: strong language & sexual references 😛
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January 6, 2021 11:55am
- cmm
  
  This woman has zero street smarts.
  
  I’d think that anyone in ACT should realise that the msm are never ever ever ever going to be your friends.
  
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  January 6, 2021 12:25pm
  - Thought Criminal
    
    The young don’t seem to realise that everything you put on the Internet is potentially there forever.
    
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    January 6, 2021 12:59pm
- Thought Criminal
  
  Wow he wants her bad.
  
  Probably a great fit for the toxic Horrid.
  
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  January 6, 2021 12:26pm
  - cmm
    
    Was he on the North Shore recently?
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/north-shore-sex-pest-women-warned-to-carry-phones-share-outing-plans-after-lewd-encounter/YTFYQO6T6HNC3CF4V4N4W6E36E/
    
    Why piss about with a phone? I’d think a stick would make a better weapon since we seem to bey shy about .38s.
    
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    January 6, 2021 4:05pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      What we do at the Tennis Club, is carry spray cans of ‘Easy-Off Oven Cleaner’ in our sports bags,
      
      Or when i go jogging, slip a can inside one of my partners socks and hang it off my waist.
      A quick spray of that into a rapists face…..and it’s goodnite nurse.
      
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      January 6, 2021 4:38pm
- niggly
  
  Who is Ethan Griffiths? A quick search shows that he has is a former school kid climate change strike organiser and is now a teenage journalist for the NZH (!).
  
  However reading some of his long-winded messages to Katrini Clarke suggests he is manipulative and trying to guilt her (eg to maintain contact when Clarke doesn’t want to, even into a sexual relationship at one point).
  
  Sounds like another JLR in the making (although this time he is the “left’s problem”).
  
  Noted he has deleted his twitter account.
  
  Since we live in “cancel culture times”, will the NZH cancel out one of their own tribal lefties?
  
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  January 6, 2021 12:27pm
Maggie Pie

Early Exit Polls GEORGIA…

R 39%
D 36%
I 25%

MAGA!
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January 6, 2021 12:51pm
- Stu2
  
  I wonder what they mean
  
  There were a lot of early votes which probably favour the dems, I would expect the exit polls to favour the republicans
  
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  January 6, 2021 1:05pm
- Nickc2
  
  May the trend continue!
  
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  January 6, 2021 1:10pm
- Biscuit
  
  Maggie, I don’t wanna be a dampener but Exit Polls only tend to feature those who voted in person…
  Hard to ‘Exit Poll’ a mailed-in ballot.
  
  The figures I am seeing, albeit from CNN, see huge early leads to both the Democrat candidates…
  
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  January 6, 2021 1:31pm
  - Stu2
    
    They are almost all early votes, which favour the dems
    
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    January 6, 2021 1:50pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Come on Bikkie – who watches CNN anymore?
    
    Even the POTUS has declared them as ‘Fake News’
    
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    January 6, 2021 1:50pm
    - Biscuit
      
      ‘Temporary’-POTUS, if you don’t mind!
      
      My News package includes Fox, too, but CNN had the figures I cite!
      
      I expect te numbers to balance out, mind…
      
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      January 6, 2021 1:52pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Fox is now shit – infiltrated with liberal admin.
        Try OANN or Newsmax
        
        5 6
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        January 6, 2021 2:12pm
- Gazza the Giant
  
  But the independents are not in this race are they? its a run off , because you must cross 50% in Georgia, that created these 2 races today , but its a 2 horse race i think
  
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  January 6, 2021 1:47pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Now we just wait for the expected vote dump in the middle of the night
  
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  January 6, 2021 2:10pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And the broken water pipe.
    
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    January 6, 2021 2:18pm
  - Biscuit
    
    Ha, Steve…
    
    Whichever way this all pans out – not just the Senate but also Trump’s occupancy of the White House, you really fear for the future of the U.S. Democratic process.
    
    Blatantly one-sided News organisations; politicians (on both sides) who are pure hypocrites with their voting patterns, a country where both coasts seem implacably at odds with the ‘centre’ and, o darn, a system that – you just bet – will again in 2024 see the parties ignoring the big centres (NY, Cali etc) and focussing purely on the ‘swing states’…
    
    Throw in, also, that no-one under 70 seems to get a look-in as a candidate…
    
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    January 6, 2021 2:22pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Almost sounds like NZ except for the age bit. We have children running NZ
      
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      January 6, 2021 2:57pm
- bruceavon
  
  Thats actually bad news for the Republicans. They need to be much higher than that to win. Considering Democrats mostly vote early. The stats for on the day exit polls should be 15% higher than the Dems. That looks like an easy win to the democrats if that’s the case.
  
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  January 6, 2021 2:32pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    The GOP are ahead by a little with 79% of the vote in.
    
    https://www.wsj.com/election-results-2020/
    
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    January 6, 2021 3:59pm
  - tf78
    
    bruceavon – todays votes seem at odds with the November vote numbers don’t you think.
    
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    January 6, 2021 4:55pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  It is bloody close and bouncing from Dem to GOP.
  
  It could mean a recount.
  
  https://www.wsj.com/election-results-2020/
  
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  January 6, 2021 3:26pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Dem Raphael Warnock have won.
    
    Purdue is behind by about 10,000 votes with 100,000 to be counted.
    
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    January 6, 2021 8:33pm
thirteenstars

And this is the calibre of human being that have been elected to replace the Evil Donald Trump:

Senator Kamala Harris started her life’s work young. She laughs from her gut, the way you would with family, as she remembers being wheeled through an Oakland, California, civil rights march in a stroller with no straps with her parents and her uncle. At some point, she fell from the stroller (few safety regulations existed for children’s equipment back then), and the adults, caught up in the rapture of protest, just kept on marching. By the time they noticed little Kamala was gone and doubled back, she was understandably upset. “My mother tells the story about how I’m fussing,” Harris says, “and she’s like, ‘Baby, what do you want? What do you need?’ And I just looked at her and I said, ‘Fweedom.’

https://www.elle.com/culture/a34225242/kamala-harris-interview/

That’s the plagiarising loon who’s one bad senility diagnosis away from the presidency.

And Ben Shapiro’s response and clarification:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fivr2suH13c

NB: you’ve got to love the bizarre reference to safety regulations for children’s equipment. Loons interviewing lunatics.
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January 6, 2021 12:58pm
- SB2
  
  Thirteeenstars,
  
  They call it sore loser syndrome!
  
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  January 6, 2021 5:25pm
SB2

Does that include Mail-in ballots?

Dominion voting machines too?
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January 6, 2021 1:14pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Some of the Dominion voting machines are not working. Just leave your ballot here and we will scan it when the machine is working. Red flags everywhere, and the media? Crickets
  
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  January 6, 2021 2:14pm
Maggie Pie

Maria Bartiromo reporting that in Hall County alone there has been a massive increase in turnout over Election Day – which will massively favor the Repubs.

That’s just one county! Expect to see similar trends across the board in several others.
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January 6, 2021 1:42pm
- bruceavon
  
  Bigger turn out in the US almost always favours Democrats. It is probably the main reason Trump lost the election. Republicans are far more reliable voters the Democrats.
  
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  January 6, 2021 2:33pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Becoming clear how yuge the pro Trump rally in DC will be. You won’t see this on CNN/Fox.

https://rumble.com/vcgu1x-dc-is-starting-to-panic-as-it-becomes-clear-how-massive-pro-trump-rally-wil.html?
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January 6, 2021 2:24pm
- SB2
  
  At most no more than 250,000,
  
  https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/17/fact-check-did-over-million-trump-supporters-rally-in-washington-dc/114973158/
  
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  January 6, 2021 5:21pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    specsavers will fix this for you
    
    2 2
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    January 6, 2021 6:21pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Police now part of Antifa???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?fbclid=IwAR2KiK307IGOET5aYaPFOXEcT1X9aerjZD537cS-Ci8rdC893h96LLrohcM&v=2RT0mRJa-ac&feature=youtu.be
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January 6, 2021 2:25pm
cmm

In my 20km trip to Sumner I go past 6 spanking new petrol stations built in the last 18 months (two still under construction): 3 complete rebuilds and 3 fresh builds.

Someone clearly doesn’t buy the EV dream.
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January 6, 2021 2:38pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Fuel Taxes to go up, so make a killing before the socialists are voted out
  
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  January 6, 2021 2:59pm
- SB2
  
  cmm, more to do with the cost of EVs but sales still keep climbing.
  ,
  https://www.transport.govt.nz/statistics-and-insights/fleet-statistics/sheet/monthly-ev-statistics
  
  Not forgetting the relatively lower cost of petrol. We’ve never had it so good
  
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  January 6, 2021 5:28pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  The wife and I bought a Nisan LEAF EV five years ago. We are very happy with our purchase.
  
  Despite the fact that us early adopters paid a premium for a “used” car, we would do it again in a second.
  
  Untill you have actually driven an EV it is hard to appreciate how much fun they are to drive.
  
  I understand that petrol cars are going to be around for quite a while and don’t have a problem with that. Petrol is always going to be a 46% result of the oil distillation process and someone has to use that petrol.
  
  Luckily it won`t be us!
  
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  January 6, 2021 7:46pm
  - marcw
    
    For interest info, seeing as the NZTA site is silent on this, what registration / RUC / ACC annual fees are you paying at the moment? I have the petrol and diesel rates for cars/ trucks / motorcycles, but there is no info on current ev rates.
    
    2 0
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    January 6, 2021 8:06pm
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I like my 6 litre V8.
    
    2 1
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    January 6, 2021 8:36pm
Maggie Pie

I’m suddenly getting the feeling that something may be ‘rigged’ 🙁
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January 6, 2021 2:41pm
Maggie Pie

BREAKING… you heard it here first.

Kim and Kanye to divorce.
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January 6, 2021 2:46pm
- cmm
  
  Let me check if I care…..
  
  Nope, sorry, just exceeded my daily quota of giveashits.
  
  22 1
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  January 6, 2021 2:53pm
  - Biscuit
    
    Here too, cmm!
    
    9 0
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    January 6, 2021 2:54pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    No denying it tho C – yuge influencers in our daily lives.
    
    2 8
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    January 6, 2021 4:10pm
    - Okahu
      
      Given that most here couldn’t pick a kardasshian in a line up, I think what you meant to say was
      …the kardasshians are a huge influence in MY daily life. And I guess that’s why you say the things you do.
      
      3 2
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      January 6, 2021 6:13pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        OK. Well…no need to be snarky!
        
        And the name is spelt with a cap ‘K’ you ignoramus.
        
        2 7
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        January 6, 2021 6:36pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

While you childish trolls are searching for something that offends you, try and work this out – or go back to kindy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYFolsI9GxU
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January 6, 2021 3:12pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And folks wonder why some countries are descending down the PISA tables.
  
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  January 6, 2021 3:27pm
  - sooty
    
    The more time they spend on feel good programs like green shit and maori and less on reading, writing and arithmetic, the lower they go!
    Just look at the dumb shits been churned out!
    
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    January 6, 2021 5:14pm
- cmm
  
  The whole point of using the 10 digit numeric system vs, say. the Roman numeral system is to put the digits in columns to allow simple addition/multiplication.
  
  If you’re going to piss around doing multiplication the common core way you may as well go back to Roman numerals.
  
  Maths teaching in general is very crap. This makes it ten times worse.
  
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  January 6, 2021 5:02pm
- greybeard
  
  35 x 10 = 350
  35 x 2 = 70
  350 + 70 + 420
  
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  January 6, 2021 5:22pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It is that fucking SIMPLE.
    You need no pen and paper – it is done in the brain faster than the first numbers written up ffs
    
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    January 6, 2021 6:24pm
  - Okahu
    
    350 + 70 +420… ? That one get a bit too much greybeard? Never mind. Its a marvellous equation if which answer you want doesn’t matter too much. ?
    
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    January 6, 2021 7:29pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

A RINO is called out. His name is now mud.
https://rumble.com/vch0yt-mitt-romney-boards-plane-full-of-trump-supporters-youll-love-what-happens-n.html?
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January 6, 2021 3:16pm
Biscuit

C’mon Atlanta!
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January 6, 2021 3:37pm
Fletch

The Georgia runoffs are so close – almost 50/50 with the leads changing every minute ?

It’s fingernail biting stuff…

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/05/us/elections/results-georgia-runoffs.html
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January 6, 2021 3:38pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Nikky Hayley Praguer Uni
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOhI_DlT5FM
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January 6, 2021 3:45pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Amen/Awomen.
Amen is a Hebrew word – Awomen is a Shebrew word
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January 6, 2021 3:52pm
Fletch

Democrats up to their dirty tricks and breaking the law, as always –

Fulton County, GA. has BLOCKED our credentialed monitors from overseeing absentee ballots and verifying signatures!

They are REQUIRED to allow our observers in by the superior court’s order

https://twitter.com/Defend_Trump/status/1346638200798908417
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January 6, 2021 4:01pm
Maggie Pie

I see they’re saying President Trump has just signed an Exec Order banning giant Chinese payment platform ‘AliPay, along with 7 other Chinese apps.

Imagine what ‘China Joe’ would do if that silly old coot ever got to be POTUS?
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January 6, 2021 4:08pm
cmm

Lots of articles about all-I-want-to-do-is-hug-my-baby Fairmont Wiringi, but still the MSM hasn’t asked the big question:

If he was in jug for 15 months why was he out causing trouble after 73 days?
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January 6, 2021 4:26pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300199340/arnold-schwarzenegger-on-why-republicans-must-stop-trump
” Trump must not be back”.
“Terminate him”.
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January 6, 2021 5:26pm
- Fletch
  
  Pfft. Ask yourself this question – was America better off under Obama or better off under Trump?
  It was better off under Trump – way better. So why would you want to go backwards?
  
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  January 6, 2021 5:31pm
  - tf78
    
    Fletch, these lying conniving idiots will reap what they sow. (Shame about the honest people who will once again pay for it).
    
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    January 6, 2021 5:42pm
  - cmm
    
    “Ask yourself this question – was America better off under Obama or better off under Trump?”
    
    Let’s change that for you: Ask yourself this question – were the elites better off under Obama or better off under Trump?
    
    They were better off under Obama.
    
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    January 6, 2021 6:44pm
    - Kiwi_in_Paris
      
      Obama’s days maybe numbered: https://vocaroo.com/1e976QE4oDoy?s=09
      
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      January 6, 2021 8:46pm
  - quarterpack
    
    Ask yourself this, are there more or less Americans, from either side of the political spectrum, prepared to inflict serious harm on one another five years ago, or right now? And if, for whatever reason, the United States are no longer as united, how does this make the USA “better off”
    
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    January 6, 2021 10:20pm
- JackRabbit
  
  If Arnie is potty mouthing Trump, the Chinese must really be worried.
  
  https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-nov-19-me-arnold19-story.html
  
  https://www.bbc.com/news/business-11296399
  
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  January 6, 2021 6:00pm
- V
  
  He was an OK governor for CA, certainly better than the current moron. However when I saw him moralizing about Trumps treatment of woman, couldn’t but help think, this from a guy who got his housemaid pregnant. Total joke.
  
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  January 7, 2021 5:41am
Fletch

“Georgia election officials have suggested we may not know final numbers until midday tomorrow”

That sounds familiar, huh? They can work out overnight how many more votes they need to add.
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January 6, 2021 5:38pm
- Batman
  
  Parroting Trump again like a good little lackey, huh Fletch?
  
  This isn’t unusual. It is what happens when the urban areas with big numbers take longer to count. The state head has just been saying that the red areas where Trump rallied last night had big lines but hadn’t yet reported any results in, so it’s not just blue areas we’re waiting for.
  
  Just to head you boys and girls off, the number of early votes cast was published before today…
  
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  January 6, 2021 5:45pm
Fletch

UPDATE: just confirmed. Chatham County is done counting votes for the night.

The board of elections annex building is empty. Workers say they’ll be back at 8 a.m.

Still thousands of votes to be counted here

https://twitter.com/StephenWJCL/status/1346661879612059648

Doesn’t inspire with confidence after the cheating last time.
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January 6, 2021 6:18pm
- V
  
  Seems like these machines have quite a few flaws.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46CAKyyObls
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijjwS6h-PyU
  
  Of course TX knew this and denied certification, all documented in 2019.
  
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  January 7, 2021 5:44am
Maggie Pie

How many “Tim’s” infest the airwaves @ 1ZB for goodness sake?

There’s another one of the lefty-losers on again now!
Honestly, imagine being married to one of them 🙁
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January 6, 2021 6:23pm
Fletch

The leftist thugs prepare ahead of the big Trump rallies tomorrow. Stacks of bricks, 2×4 bits of wood and propane tanks left out on the street, ready to be used.

https://twitter.com/RealTina40/status/1346464266849824789

https://twitter.com/RealTina40/status/1346576260428926981

These fkrs are just evil. They really are.
2 6
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January 6, 2021 6:23pm
Maggie Pie

GEORGIA 99% COUNTED……

Warnock beats Loeffler

Perdue beats Ossoff
2 5
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January 6, 2021 6:29pm
- SB2
  
  If Purdue has won that is certain to be an “election steal” with voting machine manipulation by Repugnanticans
  
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  January 6, 2021 7:07pm
- Fletch
  
  It’s not looking like this now. Seems Perdue is losing… ?
  
  https://results.decisiondeskhq.com/
  
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  January 6, 2021 7:45pm
Fletch

The “Rev” Warnock starts reciting a MLK speech. What an a-hole…
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January 6, 2021 6:59pm
Fletch

Update –

BREAKING NEWS: CNN reports that vote counting has stopped in heavily-Democrat DeKalb County, Georgia because of “technical glitches.” This is how they are stealing the election.

It’s always the “technical glitches”… ?
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January 6, 2021 7:34pm
- SB2
  
  It’s always the “technical glitches” ??
  
  Code for the rallying cry “stealing the election” without factual evidence,
  
  2 8
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  January 6, 2021 8:05pm

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