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June 27, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 27 June 2021

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General Debate

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artemisia

Bank branches and ATMs closing, closing, closing ….. Faster shut down than buggy whip makers.

The Stuff article refers to a bank branch averaging 6 transactions a week. A week. Obviously picked for its shock value, but still.

Another shock value quote this time from National’s Andrew Bayley –

about a million people, including many neuro-diverse people living with conditions like brain injuries and dyslexia, struggled with online banking.

Really? A quarter of the adult population struggling? Maybe there are a few out there with no family or other support to help them. As families and friends have done for millennia. But a million ‘victims’? Don’t think so.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/125505747/big-banks-close-more-than-460-atms-and-bank-branches-over-18-months
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June 27, 2021 8:04am
- peterwn
  
  Now that banks have stopped charging customers for using other banks’ ATM’s, rationalising ATM’s makes sense where there are two under-utilised ATM’s in close proximity.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:47am
- Inandout
  
  Sit outside any WINZ office and observe the cellphone huggers; they are everywhere. Online banking problems..no way.
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:18am
  - Jack5
    
    Banks have shareholders, mainly Aussies, to answer to.
    
    Are the banks responding to the Reserve Bank of NZ tightening ratios? These will have pushed up their costs.
    
    Beyond that it’s part of the hammering that New Zealand is giving its rural regions.
    
    Consider the diamond-studded cyclists’ bridge for Auckland while in the regions people detour from washed-out bridges.
    
    Look at the big (by NZ scale) telecoms companies that murmur about shutting down copper-line phone services while some people in the regions depend on them.
    
    In hindsight, commercialising the old savings banks seems another stuff-up by bureaucrats, in that instance conned by the sharebroking community.
    
    The big New Zealand commercial bank that was to be created from the banks resulted in only the small TSB. (The ASB is now the NZ division of an Aussie bank).
    
    The main cost to the country of the savings banks was a guarantee on deposits, which now applies to all banks up to $100,000.
    
    Able to survive on very low margins, savings banks would have maintained banking services in at least some of the regions now being hammered.
    
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    June 27, 2021 12:07pm
    - peterwn
      
      AFAIK Chorus is only shutting down copper phone lines where there is an alternative. Current shutdown proposals are in urban areas where fibre has been installed. There has been no suggestion of shutting down copper networks in areas where there is no alternative. Cellular internet is being installed in such areas and while not up to fibre standards, would in most cases provide a better service than long rural copper lines.
      
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      June 27, 2021 1:59pm
      - Jack5
        
        Peter, I’m a layman, but my understanding is that cellphone traffic is line-of-sight, at least in the countryside.
        
        I’m not sure how cellphone internet would service rolling hill back country, which makes up a lot of New Zealand topography.
        
        It would be much better than slow copper lines, but copper is better than nothing for voice, slow email, and if you’re lucky slow web internet.
        
        People in back country can get satellite access, but that’s expensive, especially for those who aren’t land owners – farm workers, teachers, truck drivers, and so on, and their families.
        
        In the meantime what happened to all the wonder products that were going to boost copper-line speed – developments like this, covered in a report seven years ago:
        
        https://www.cnet.com/news/lowly-dsl-broadband-poised-for-gigabit-speed-boost/
        
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        June 27, 2021 9:18pm
- cmm
  
  I think it is bullshit suggesting that 20% of all New Zealanders are so badly impacted by “neuro difference” that they can’t cope with online banking.
  
  “Neuro difference” – be it brain damage or dyslexia or whatever is not an all or nothing proposition. There is a sliding scale. At one end are people who have minor impairment, at the other are people who have major impairment and the bulk are somewhere in the middle.
  
  The vast majority of “neuro different” people are likely like me: dyslexic, but can cope through various learned strategies (eg. checking everything three times, scanning with your finger).
  
  Many, including myself, actually find it easier to fill out web forms than paper forms in the bank.
  
  I would doubt there is more than 2% of the population (ie. 100,000 people) that are “neuro different” to the extent that they cannot drive web banking.
  
  Much more likely is that illiterate people (be that real illiteracy, or just web-illiterate) struggle with driving online resources. eg. there was a recent article saying that a factory with a largely PI workforce had massive problems with people not driving computers etc.
  
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  June 27, 2021 10:07am
  - Jack5
    
    At my bank, I still must queue at a branch if I change my cellphone number. (If you could change it online the cellphone would surely be useless for security checks on transactions.)
    
    There are other personal reasons for physical bank visits, including: you want foreign cash (notes) for a trip (yes, you can buy it in our main cities from hole-in-the wall dealers, and you can risk you’ll have time to buy it an airport); setting up a new account with a (modest) guarantee for a young family member; freezing a joint account in a sudden and acrimonious marriage collapse ….
    
    And if you’re in small business the bank will likely want to be able to see you in person. If it can’t you will be handled by a branch which is now getting further and further away.
    
    I presume that, with the vast distances in Australia, it’s nothing for a farmer or agricultural contractor there to drive hundreds of kilometres to discuss business with a banker.
    
    Maybe that influences Aussie bankers considering need for retail branches in NZ.
    
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    June 27, 2021 12:26pm
- coge
  
  These same folk also had problems using the old banks as well. But they had familiar staff to assist them.
  
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  June 27, 2021 10:53am
- hullkiwi
  
  Maybe not a million, but there are a significant proportion of the population above the age of 75 do not use or have access to computers, and there is a significant proportion of the population who can’t use computers (because of mental disability). So, I wouldn’t dismiss Bayley’s statement so readily.
  
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  June 27, 2021 6:07pm
Tony Stuart

Train wreck alert! Here’s Kris Faafoi having an absolute ‘mare of an interview with Tova O’Brien on Newshub Nation yesterday:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1408634688747438081

Has Labour erred badly by putting a person without any legal experience (Faafoi is a graduate of the NZ Broadcasting School) in the Justice portfolio?
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June 27, 2021 8:06am
- Im Right
  
  Seems its normal for Labour Tony. They swap over ministers in portfolios that are performing poorly or about to deliver a contentious piece of legislation. Look at Megan Woods when Twyford was stripped of housing portfolio….when in the house she was asked probing and valid questions fron the opposition and alot of the answers were along the lines of ‘i cant answer that as i wasnt minister for housing at that time, you will have to take that up with my collegue Phil Twyford’ (who was not in parliament when the question(s) were asked…its an underarm bowling move to blunt any probing ‘valid’ questions from having to be answered.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:16am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    FaFoi is way out of his depth
    
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    June 28, 2021 12:08am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I thought he did well Tony. He didn’t falter from the point of what the intent of the Law is. Tova just kept asking the same question to which he kept answering it wasn’t individual’s being targeted but rather groups. I think if it becomes Law it will be rarely used.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:28am
  - BananaLlama
    
    What? groups like Nazis? You are going to cancel yourself fool.
    
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    June 27, 2021 8:30am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Bananas are yellow all over.
      
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      June 27, 2021 8:55am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        They start off green and end up black and squishy.
        
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        June 27, 2021 9:26am
      - BananaLlama
        
        A pair of Scotts that think Ginger Nut is a colour. I am Jacks complete lack of surprise.
        
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        June 27, 2021 9:43am
  - SmokerGuy
    
    Bullshit, the intention of this law will be different to how it’s used I guarantee it.
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:59am
- Fidel Cashflow
  
  I made this point yesterday but it is well worth repeating: the target is criticism of the government. Period. Muslims, LGBT and all of the other minorities are red herrings and are held up as more acceptable grounds. This is false. This is all about attenuating our right to criticise state policy. Unless you are on board with the liberal project, you are “hateful.”
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:36am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Labour erred in taking on any govt role.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:40am
- Swifty
  
  We are merely their playthings and we will do as we’re told by the NZ Labour Party.
  
  And when there are more incidents they will bring in more and more restrictions. Once they jump on this bus they will be unable to get off.
  
  Fancy that, it is the NZ left who are determined to curb our hard-won freedoms and liberties and, of course, all in the name of making us ‘safe’. Yes, it’s always done ‘for our own good’.
  
  There are critical conversations we should be having in NZ but aren’t. Like the role and purpose of the state. What are its limits and boundaries? Does the state exist to serve the citizenry or are we mere objects of the whims and desires of politicians seeking votes?
  
  When it comes to our freedoms and liberties I wouldn’t trust these Labour (and Green) politicians as far as I could throw them. Control, control, control seems their overarching and overwhelming motivation.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:42am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Amen Swifty
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:41am
  - Bob
    
    do as we’re told by the NZ Labour Party…..
    corection Swifty..
    do as we’re told by the
    TRADE UNION SECRETARIES
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:25am
  - ABS4EVA
    
    They are Communists and Socialists there is no real difference but Socialism is a mental disorder.
    
    Seriously the proponents of it are mentally deranged imho.
    
    Their Drug is POWER they trip out on it.
    Every where they are changing anything in the world they are making it worse.
    
    Look at what they Did to Melbourne Victoria
    JESUS
    
    Listen to Socialists they are raving lunatics
    One Example
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgpaKkrZex4
    
    … [Deleted – TL:DR, you made your point. Mod]
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:27am
- David Garrett
  
  Tony S: The appointment of Fa’afoi as Minister of Justice is utterly bewildering…he seems to be nice guy. but is a fish out of water in the Justice portfolio.
  
  This is just a theory, and I could be quite wrong, but I think Little threw him a hospital pass because of the shit fight that is going to erupt as they – inevitably successfully – repeal three strikes.
  
  I truly believe they are doing it largely because Little hates me personally. I would have eviscerated him in submissions to the Select Committee and Little knows it. He will be portrayed – with supporting evidence – to be a deeply dishonest and dishonourable man.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:50am
  - SB2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Little hates you? LOL, Why would he bother about you is quite beyond me.
    
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    June 27, 2021 9:13am
    - David Garrett
      
      Stupid Boy: You prove the truth of your nickname pretty much every time you comment…
      
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      June 27, 2021 10:21am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      Maybe because he’s a hive minded authoritarian goon who despises individualism?
      
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      June 27, 2021 10:44am
  - John Pakes
    
    I dont think so.
    
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    June 27, 2021 9:29am
    - David Garrett
      
      JP: What don’t you think? That I will expose Little as a deeply dishonourable man? You’ll have to wait and see if I can bothered to make a submission to the Select Committee that will make precisely zero difference to the outcome.
      
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      June 27, 2021 10:22am
      - ancient one
        
        Do
        
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        June 27, 2021 9:51pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    It may not be personal DG.
    
    I suspect Andrew Little can’t hold his own with many in the Legal fraternity, viz. his defamation cases.
    
    At least as Min of Health, he has his wife (a former nurse) to provide some brain cells.
    
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    June 27, 2021 9:35am
    - David Garrett
      
      Maggy: I think you are probably right re the “legal fraternity”…put bluntly, with rare exceptions, only second rate lawyers become lawyers for unions…the pay is crap, and there are no avenues for advancement.
      
      Angry Andy is responsible for my 100% success rate in the Court of Appeal: One case, against the union he represented…and a win for moi. Andy didn’t take it well.
      
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      June 27, 2021 9:56am
      - Nickc2
        
        He is also a vindictive bastard!
        
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        June 27, 2021 10:14am
      - David Garrett
        
        He’s a vindictive bastard who doesn’t pay his gambling debts…two pretty significant strikes against him in my book…
        
        But then I’m just a broken arse barrister from Kaukapakapa
        
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        June 27, 2021 10:25am
    - JibberJabber
      
      Little can’t hold his own with his own family, even his Mum won’t vote for him…
      
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      June 27, 2021 10:17am
- kowtow
  
  He is out of his depth .
  
  This particular piece of legislation is Little’s baby.
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:26am
- Clyde
  
  Notice Faafoi glancing off to the right all the time during that interview? He is a small cog in this machine that is taking NZ to hell in a handcart.
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:29am
- rjay
  
  I like the bit when Tova gives a “for intance” and says “that if I wrote that Ardern was a communist and dictator would that be hate speech?” and Faafoi responds ” let’s use something theoretical instead”.
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:41am
  - Nickc2
    
    No doubt Faafoi’s invite to the next Labour Party piss up will get lost in the post.
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:22am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    You gotta laf.
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:41am
- Stellaboxer
  
  It seems under the new and improved law opinion is what is actually being targeted. For instance under the present situation if I were to say that in my opinion a trans woman is just a bloke in a frock it’s unpleasant but not illegal but if I went on to say “ and therefore they should be beaten up” that has become incitement and I can quite rightly be prosecuted for it. Labour want to prosecute me for the first statement which is an opinion. So there is a very real possibility of someone being prosecuted for holding an opinion that is opposed to a presumed present orthodoxy held by certain sections of the community . There’s only two positions on free speech you are for it or against it. Vague laws such as this one are designed to protect a political position and silence decent. It’s good old fashioned authoritarianism and don’t forget folks the labour government introduced it unsolicited.
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:57am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    and don’t forget folks the labour government introduced it unsolicited.
    
    It has not been introduced…
    only proposed…
    
    Still time to outline your objections in a submission to the Justice Department.
    
    https://www.justice.govt.nz/about/news-and-media/news/proposals-against-incitement/
    
    https://www.justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/Incitement-Discussion-Document.pdf
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:47am
    - [email protected]
      
      That survey is very lengthy and (in my opinion) designed to turn you off from completing it.
      
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      June 27, 2021 11:15am
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    What’s the real problem with hating & hate speech: there’s many good & civil rights responsibility reasons to hate & speak out against racism, injustice, religious dogma, abrogation of human rights, fascist & communist ideologies that have historicallymurdered millions…it’s a long list
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:11am
- Maxx
  
  The police will either prosecute everyone or no one. If the minister can’t articulate who would or wouldn’t be prosecuted under this law given real world examples, how will the police be able to judge? I suspect it will be the former and they’ll let the courts decide.
  
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  June 27, 2021 10:47am
  - nathie
    
    Yep, the Police will be obliged to arrest anyone and everyone, in order to let the Courts decide.
    
    Then, progressive/activist-sympathetic judges will declare citizens “guilty” of hate-speech crimes …
    
    One can see that happening easily … Labour’s idiocy needs to be stopped, now!
    
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    June 27, 2021 2:08pm
    - hullkiwi
      
      …and it will clog up the criminal justice system with examples like Swarfega voicing her contempt for older generation New Zealanders.
      
      Faa’foi you can’t have your stupidity both ways. A graduate of Broadcasting as a Justice Minister, really???!!!!
      
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      June 27, 2021 6:30pm
- oldfella
  
  Tony, yes, a train wreck of an interview. There are no good answers to questions like Tova was asking. What a clusterf**k this could turn into for Labour and it’s still early days.
  BTW, I have already decided that removing any such legislation will be a bottom line for any party wanting my vote at the next general election.
  Will the Nats go that far?
  
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  June 27, 2021 12:36pm
  - chukar
    
    The above comments are really about the removal of humans rights to express themselves, and communicate with one another.
    If the comment is offensive those whom it is addressed to they have the options to ignore ,respond and or ridicule the comment.
    Most are aware of Mark Twain’s comment “ better to remain silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt”
    Invalid and stupid comment has it own cost to its author .
    We don’t need a bunch of bureaucrats telling us what we must or must not say.
    It is our right to use our own discretion.
    
    The proposed laws are totally stupid and offensive to thinking New Zealanders!
    
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    June 27, 2021 6:09pm
Fidel Cashflow

Breaking news: massive anti-tyranny protest right now in London

MSM: “Here’s a BS story about something we’d like you to believe about the world instead…”

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1408779353325031425
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June 27, 2021 8:08am
- krazykiwi
  
  Wow. That’s a HUGE protest.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:16am
- Scott
  
  She’s such a nice person they say. She smiles nicely and speaks nicely and hugs nicely and look at the baby!!
  
  But you shall know them by their fruit. Abortion right up until birth, euthanize the elderly, hate speech which means disagreement with someone can be a criminal offence.
  
  Shut the churches over Easter, in our church the only time it has happened since our inception in 1943. But she smiles nicely. She’s kind. It’s for your own good.
  
  Speculation arising from the book of Revelation tells us that when the Antichrist comes he will speak well and look well and everyone will like him.
  You can look good and sound good and smell good but not be good.
  
  We need to wake up. Socialist governance is upon us. Wake up people of New Zealand.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:18am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Some theology admits that there may be more than one Antichrist spirit among us–not just the big one.
    
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    June 27, 2021 8:44am
  - Swifty
    
    If your god is all knowing and all powerful and nothing is beyond him/ her, then why does he/her allow the Antichrist to exist?
    
    Seems a bit odd to me. Can’t he just be smited with God’s big staff or something?
    
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    June 27, 2021 8:55am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I can’t answer for God at that level. The Biblical picture is God threw Satan and his angelic followers out Heaven and gave them the earth as their domicile. Satan does have some divine access as he was allowed to test Job. He is further referred to as having a role in the end times before the return of Jesus. He is the ultimate source of evil here. Those who don’t believe fall neatly in his traps.
      
      I believe the end times season has begun but can have knowledge of its duration–it could be centuries. The upside down state of logic and truth attests to it as does the apostasy. The IRS are now trying to take down churches.
      
      We need the return of Jesus now, more than ever before. Patience, hope is with us.
      
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      June 27, 2021 12:29pm
  - Inandout
    
    Scott, I agree with some of what you say but surely the anti Christ woudn’t choose such a backwater as NZ when Joe Biden’s minders are in a much better position to push the agenda. When Clinton was running for President she had a side kick Muslim by the name of Huma Abedin who was set up to use Hillary as her condute for Islamisation of the entire US. Then we have mainly Dem cities having huge increases in crime, with Portland experiencing a 500% spike in murders and Police leaving the job in droves. Even the wild West had law enforcement and would not tolerate defunding the Sherrif’s office. So no, Jacinda is a mere pimple on the world scene.
    
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    June 27, 2021 9:41am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    The problem with being on the right of politics is having to be associated with religious BS from Christian conservatives.
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:51am
  - Bob
    
    need to wake up. Socialist governance is upon…..
    
    Correction Scott…
    need to wake up. COMMUNIST governance is upon
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:30am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Some casual musings (of a non-believer/secular humanist) arising from your post, Scott.
    
    […] when the Antichrist comes he will speak well and look well and everyone will like him. […].
    
    So how will we recognise him as the true, real, anti-Christ, and not an imposter (so that we all have the good sense to cower before him)? By “we” I mean all the peoples of the world — which surely is what it would take for him to have his way — not just those who claim to be Christian.
    
    To take a silly example: some people might think Trump was (and remains) the anti-Christ. Today, another set of people might think Biden is the anti-Christ. If it turned out that one of them is indeed the anti-Christ, what has to happen for the other “set” of people to recognise that, and accept it as incontrovertible fact?
    
    Perhaps more importantly, is how do we recognise that Christ has finally come, whether for the first, or second, time?
    
    No doubt you’ve spent a lot of time thinking about such questions, Scott. Do you have any thoughts / conclusions for us?
    
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    June 27, 2021 12:14pm
    - Scott
      
      Good questions Steve. To recognise an antichrist figure you need discernment. Is this person from God or is this person from the other team? It’s a spiritual gift and many have it.
      
      Jesus has come the first time. At the second coming of Christ, he will come on the clouds of heaven. It will be a world wide event. There will be no doubt.
      
      Here’s a tip, when the trumpet sounds and the stars begin to fall, then you will know.
      
      God bless, Scott ?
      
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      June 27, 2021 12:34pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Thank you for responding, Scott.
        
        Unfortunately, I’m no better informed, but that’s okay.
        
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        June 27, 2021 1:44pm
      - Swifty
        
        Scott’s very reliable that way Steve.
        
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        June 27, 2021 2:36pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  For a moment there I thought you said it was an “anti-tranny protest”….
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:01am
  - Fidel Cashflow
    
    Let’s do this
    
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    June 27, 2021 9:17am
rererangihirihiri

That squeezer from the Gween party Shames Shaw being interviewed on the radio last week. Quite certain I heard him call out ‘Southern Pakeha farmers’ as being difficult and uncompliant.
Let me tell you something Shaw, every Southern farmer (and northern farmer for that matter) is worth about a 1000 of you. Gripper.
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June 27, 2021 8:09am
- alloytoo
  
  Now that sounds like hate speech right there.
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:33am
  - Maxx
    
    I know. It’s like wow – lefties are hypocrites. Imagine if he’d said the equivalent of family violence, Northern Maoris are violent and drug abusers.
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:51am
  - rererangihirihiri
    
    If New Zealander’s continue to tolerate these incompetent mouth breathers to ruin this country then I am pretty well certain at some point I with be slapped with a $50k fine & sent to the gulag for 3 years for reflection.
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:47am
- JackRabbit
  
  “Quite certain I heard him call out ‘Southern Pakeha farmers’ as being difficult and uncompliant.”
  
  As they should be. Wholesale snatching of land off farmers by reclassifying it as native conservation land, should be resisted at all cost. The ‘difficult and non-compliant’ probably refers to farmers refusing access to govt officials for ‘voluntary’ audits of their farms to check for native bush.
  
  As I am aware, said officials, if not given voluntary permission, use a range of covert tactics to gain illegal access to the farms. Southern farmers will not go quietly into the night.
  
  Shaw’s behaviour is what you might expect from a brother with two mothers. He has no clue about the real world, and probably why he has a phobia preventing him from driving. He wants to slow down and stop the world, rather than engaging and making something of his life. He is obsessed with stopping others.
  
  “Shaw credits his two mothers for instilling him with his passion for politics and social justice.”
  
  “…we should expect a minimum of 0.5 m sea level rise in the next century. That will affect our homes and our businesses, our infrastructure and our wildlife. – James Shaw.
  
  The actual figure, as it has been since the last ice age, is 1.5mm per year which is 0.15m, not 0.5m. Making up shit is a sign of delusion.
  
  Depending on where you live, the daily difference between low and high tide can be anywhere from 1.0m to 16.0m. And that is before swells and storms are taken into account. So 0.15m in one hundred years is 3/4 of 5/8 of sweet f*ck all.
  
  In addition, coastal drift – erosion and deposition, which has been going on for millions of years. It can erode or add to coastlines at the rate of several lateral metres per year. Erosion gives the illusion of ‘climate change.
  
  Shaw posits himself as an expert on climate change but either knows nothing about geography, or has selective memory.
  
  Shaw posits himself as an expert on cars, but can’t drive.
  
  Imbecile!
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:56am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Those figures of sea level rises are typical of the left. They just don’t understand numbers and use a roving decimal point
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:42am
- Surely Knott
  
  I’m trying to understand the hate laws?
  
  Is James Shaw saying, Pakeha Farmers have no respect for regulation, hate speech? What if I said another ethnic group had no respect for laws?
  
  A leftist commenting on twitter called ACT supporters white supremacists? Is that hate speech. If Golriz made a tweet and I called her supporters (insert racial group here) extremists, would that be hate speech?
  
  A woman has been arrested under current laws “with using insulting words while being reckless about whether any person was alarmed or insulted by those words” for saying, “Don’t worry, it won’t be long before they leave our country.”” Are you born and Bred in NZ?
  
  But a politician said, “The caucasity of caucasians and their active assimilation agenda. Pay them no attention their archaic species is becoming more extinct as a new Aotearoa is on the rise.” “Whenua + Pakeha = Old Zealand” Why hasn’t he been charged under the same current laws as Born and Bred woman. How is Rawiri’s comment different. It says we have no right to be here. The words were insulting reckless and I was offended so why hasn’t he been arrested. Why hasn’t James Shaw been arrested for recklessly insulting Pakeha farmers.. There doesn’t seem to be any law or consistency except for subjectively arresting people that offend the current twitter mob.
  
  28 1
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  June 27, 2021 10:06am
  - Cobolt24
    
    That Rawiri comment got sent to the Human Rights commission by quite a few just from this website. You’d think they’d come out with a statement condemning it.
    They didn’t.
    
    11 1
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    June 27, 2021 12:11pm
    - slernz
      
      I was one that complained to the HRC. It took them weeks to reply and it was the expected whitewash. They claimed there was nothing they could do about Rawiri’s comments. I got the reply I expected because I have complained to this outfit before and received the same answer each time. The new hate speech laws will only apply to so-called white supermacists, mouthy old white men, Christians (watch out Brian Tamaki) and Jews.
      
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      June 27, 2021 6:29pm
krazykiwi

Four active British Airway pilots have died just week apart after receiving Covid ‘vaccines’.
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June 27, 2021 8:10am
- G152
  
  So the other 10,000 active British Airways pilots survived.
  That’s good news
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:13am
  - Fidel Cashflow
    
    Tell that to the four pilots’ families.
    
    29 12
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    June 27, 2021 8:16am
    - doggone7
      
      “Tell that to the four pilots’ families?”
      That’s the sort of attitude not apparent whenever Pike River was mentioned on here.
      
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      June 27, 2021 11:32am
      - Fidel Cashflow
        
        False equivalence. The distinguishing feature is that not everyone in the world is expected to line up and obediently head down into a mine though, are they?
        
        6 1
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        June 27, 2021 12:46pm
      - Jack5
        
        What do Kiwiblog posters and readers think?
        
        Those who would like a Pfizer Covid-19 vaccination click on this post’s uptick box below.
        
        Those who, like Fidel, see it as wrong, or a conspiracy, or,, for other reasons, oppose Covid-19 vaccination, downtick below.
        
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        June 27, 2021 12:55pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Pilot deaths are rare, and it may well just be ‘bad luck’ or a ‘coincidence’, but according to a retired RAF pilot who was also an airline captain who flew for several independent British airlines: ‘Airline pilots are a very healthy bunch. I worked for a number of airlines, and I actually cannot recall a pilot dying of any illness before retirement. Four in a few weeks? Unheard of.
    
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    June 27, 2021 8:18am
    - RichardX
      
      So no actual evidence then.
      
      8 11
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      June 27, 2021 8:33am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      1 suicide, 1 internal injuries after a mountain biking accident
      
      16 2
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      June 27, 2021 8:59am
    - rockape
      
      Not sure I. An agree. As a retired Sqn Ldr. I saw some facts in the early 80s re pensions. Those in the RAF who retired at age 38 , one of the exit points tended to live into their 80s Those ho did a full career till 55 tended to be gone by 70. It’s a very stressful job and the longer your in it the less long your life. I got out at 40. Of the 21 who started on my flying course age 18, only seven were alive when I left the RAF.
      
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      June 27, 2021 9:30am
      - Tall Man
        
        I’m with you, stress and internal malice are the greatest killers out there.
        
        7 1
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        June 27, 2021 11:52am
      - david
        
        Does that prove the saying – “there old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are very few old, bold pilots”?
        
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        June 27, 2021 12:57pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      The linked article suggests that the Pfizer vaccine can cause clots; long haul flying carries risk of deep vein thrombosis. It’s the combo that’s suspicious.
      
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      June 27, 2021 8:06pm
- Fidel Cashflow
  
  Yes krazy. It’s a global medical experiment.
  
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9719891/Inventor-mRNA-vaccines-says-young-adults-teens-not-forced-COVID-vaccine.html
  
  https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/06/you-are-a-pathetic-liar-cdc-senior-scientist-to-cdcs-head-of-immunization/
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:15am
  - SB2
    
    Utter bollox pure and simple.
    
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    June 27, 2021 9:14am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      evidence?
      
      14 3
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      June 27, 2021 10:38am
      - Fidel Cashflow
        
        Careful Captain: that is bordering on inciting stephie to post dick pic.
        
        14 4
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        June 27, 2021 11:01am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      And your research qualifications are?
      
      5 3
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      June 27, 2021 12:59pm
- Greg Ettridge
  
  It is a real dilemma, Alan Joyce at Qantas is pushing everyone to get vaccinated so they can fly.
  Spain and Russia are instructing people that have been vaccinated not fly.
  I think if I flew BA which I wouldn’t I like one of each flying the plane.
  A vaccinated and a unvaccinated until the science is settled on these experimental drugs.
  the 19 hour Perth to London, is sure to be a big hit.
  Pilots that have very strict medicals don’t normally die, be interesting know the stats on this.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:18am
  - Fidel Cashflow
    
    They emphasise any possible related causes in vaccine deaths, but the same people de-emphasise possible related causes in Covid deaths. The logical inconsistency is very, very instructive indeed.
    
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    June 27, 2021 8:22am
    - kowtow
      
      Yep , and why aren’t our Media Party , who were/are so quick to talk up every death as “covid” related , not reporting the people who are dying here post vax ?
      
      19 2
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      June 27, 2021 9:30am
      - Fidel Cashflow
        
        Misfeasance or malfeasance, take your pick.
        
        10 1
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        June 27, 2021 10:21am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Pilot health in the air is taken very seriously. For example, their in-flight meals are prepared by different catering companies to limit the risk of food poisoning taking them both out. Airlines will now start ramping full medicals for their ‘vaccinated’ flight deck crew.
    
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    June 27, 2021 8:23am
    - tf78
      
      krazy, I wonder if it was to do with DVT.
      
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      June 27, 2021 8:53am
- Loddenthinks
  
  I think that’s been found to be nonsense. https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-coronavirus-aviation-idUSL2N2NZ1ZO
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:07am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I suggest that parts of the story may be nonsense, but with similar situations starting to manifest elsewhere (India, USA) it’s worth keeping an open mind. I’ll take the data over the mewling of ‘fact checkers’ every minute of every day.
    
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    June 27, 2021 9:23am
    - kowtow
      
      There ‘s no doubt the pilots have died . They don’t deny that.
      
      I reckon without the results of a post mortem we’ll never know.
      
      ” False. British Airways is not in “crisis talks” with the British government about vaccinated pilots. Four pilots have recently died – and British Airways says none of these is linked to vaccines.”
      
      But then they would say that , wouldn’t they.
      
      11 3
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      June 27, 2021 9:38am
- Inandout
  
  krazy, I cannot recall winter flu innoculated people dying in such numbers. Perhaps the Pilots’ Association could come up with numbers on that.
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:54am
Happychappy

Has Jacinda Ardern and the NZ Government over reacted in closing our borders or is this about Jacinda Ardern and her legacy on Covid -19 that she more than likely does not want tarnished.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-travel-bubble-ban-surprises-michael-baker-outrages-some-travellers/EWKRBK6YAVJPGY3X2TISYZWX2I/
I wonder how many lies will be told to justify her attempts to save New Zealander’s this time.
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June 27, 2021 8:10am
- yossarian
  
  Those with a common sense notion of risk management would say they’ve over reacting, again. But those who have believed every word of Jacinda and St Ashley have said would believe that 80,000 people will die, if we don’t go in lock down for a month.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:22am
  - doggone7
    
    Should I believe every word you say of “Jacinda and St Ashley” said “80,000 people will die” ?
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:34am
    - Happychappy
      
      You don’t even qualify as a troll really you are a excuse for trying to be one, so why would anyone believe what you say.
      
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      June 27, 2021 1:31pm
- krazykiwi
  
  The lies will continue until the job is done. It’s Ardern’s MO
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:34am
  - crikey
    
    The job being…reelection?
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:22am
  - Bob
    
    Goebbels I believe.. stated that if a lie is told often enough, people come to believe it as the TRUTH.
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:34am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      Bob it was Herman Goering I believe
      
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      June 27, 2021 12:12pm
- MCos
  
  In our neck of the woods there are some interesting approaches.
  Fiji has does nothing much and now has around three thousand cases and a number of deaths.
  NSW has a half pie lockdown and has a couple of hundred cases.
  Here we are over cautious, but no community cases.
  
  Take your pick.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:41am
  - Sacha
    
    Are Fiji’s +/- 3,000 cases symptomatic (ie:sick?) or positive swab results?
    Just asking.
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:06am
  - Surely Knott
    
    Fiji has three thousand cases and 15 deaths from coronavirus. 15/3329=.004
    
    “According to the latest WHO data published in 2018 Influenza and Pneumonia Deaths in Fiji reached 227 or 3.87% of total deaths. The age adjusted Death Rate is 33.71 per 100,000 of population ranks”
    
    And out of interest. “According to the latest WHO data published in 2018 Influenza and Pneumonia Deaths in New Zealand reached 905 or 3.47% of total deaths.”
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:29am
- Benedict Yu
  
  There are direct flights now from Auckland to Hobart. They are also shut down even though Tasmania has had no cases for over a year.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:46am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Doesn’t need any justification for the people that never wanted the border open Happy. Try to keep up,
  28.1% in May: ttps://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/05/newshub-reid-research-poll-majority-of-kiwis-back-trans-tasman-bubble.html
  Compared to only 4% wanting a bubble in September last year:
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2020/09/coronavirus-majority-of-new-zealanders-don-t-want-travel-bubble-with-australia-yet-newshub-reid-research-poll.html
  A poll at the moment would be interesting, I’d say you’d been in the minority, again.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:46am
  - Happychappy
    
    Did you show me any where on my post that I said I want the border closed, but again you have got lost in your own self importance and bullshit facts to post a message to me on what you surmise.
    
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    June 27, 2021 9:15am
    - Happychappy
      
      The border closed or open is what I mean’t to say.
      
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      June 27, 2021 9:35am
  - Inandout
    
    Brian, you are constantly in the minority on here so maybe you are attuned to being unpopular.
    
    18 2
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    June 27, 2021 9:56am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “Try to keep up”
    
    A phrase that conveys the writer is an arrogant person. Stop reading immediately.
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:31am
- tf78
  
  Happy, we were lucky our in-laws returned to Aussie yesterday morning.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:54am
  - MCos
    
    Glad to see the back of them, eh?
    
    4 11
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    June 27, 2021 10:14am
- Paulus
  
  Ardern no longer knows the difference between facts and her fiction – called lies.
  I assume I will not be able to think this or say so soon, as somebody will send Little along to have me arrested.
  
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  June 27, 2021 10:05am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Only if there’s a group of you Paulus saying the same thing…
    
    Still, I s’pose 3 or more of us on KB expressing a similar view could be considered to be a group.
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:54am
- alwyn
  
  I’m thoroughly in favour of scrapping the “bubble” until we have everyone in New Zealand who wants to be vaccinated having got their two doses.
  Then we can have an opening of the borders.
  Unfortunately I don’t think that is the reason for the closure. I fear it is rather more like the actions of a spoiled child. Ms Ardern has had to cancel her trip over there which was planned for next month. She is now lashing out with the reaction that “If I can’t go then neither can anyone else” She’s going to show us!
  
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  June 27, 2021 10:16am
Yvette

Hate or strong dislike
I’m not going to get into the absolute details of every case here, but if they can prove that it is targeted at a group that is protected under the Human Rights Act and you are apt to incite hatred and normalise hatred against one of those groups, then you could find yourself foul of the law. – Justice Minister Kris Faafoi [1]

The proposed changes would cover written and spoken word, or online platforms, and cover speech that intentionally incites hatred on the basis of sex, marital status, religious belief, ethical belief (meaning the lack of a religious belief), colour, race, ethnic or national origins, disability, age, political opinion, employment status, family status, or sexual orientation. They would make it a crime to “intentionally incite/stir up, maintain or normalise hatred” – Guardian [2]

Since “hatred” is undefined, but “political opinion” is included, will one be able to say, “I loath the Labour Government for their lies and utter non-delivery of nearly all their policies and I will urge all those I know to not vote for them in 2023” ?

Which targets a group, expresses emotion against them for a collective negative attribute, and urges people to discriminate against them by not voting for them, perhaps depriving them of a better livelihood – so I guess that is gone-burger and the only question would be the size of the fine, and whether there would be repercussions for Kiwiblog?

And for the sake of the Opposition parties in Parliament, will Parliamentary privilege trump (if you can still use that word) perceived “hate speech”?
(and of course in that context, comments may be “hate speech” to one party, but blinding truth to another)

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/06/could-millennials-be-jailed-for-hating-on-boomers-kris-faafoi-answers-tough-questions-about-the-new-hate-speech-proposals.html
[2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/25/new-zealand-moves-to-toughen-hate-speech-laws-in-wake-of-christchurch-attacks
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June 27, 2021 8:21am
- Benedict Yu
  
  As political opinion is included I would say a number of blogs would be targeted. Will blog owners be forced to disclose the identities of commentators?
  
  I had a look at “The Standard” a couple of times. It is horrifying. Full of hate speech.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:52am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I think pressure will be put on owners of certain blogs.
    
    I suspect that there will be a “group” of blog checkers desperate to locate hate speech.
    
    Remember folks, even when you don’t use hate speech, you can still be branded as being a member of a hate-speech group by anonymous accusers.
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:59am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Negative thoughts about someone or a political situation can be expressed cloying sweetly so they cannot be considered as hateful but Cinderella like.
      
      If they want truth turned into lies we can do can the inverse and present falsity as smiles.
      
      11 1
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      June 27, 2021 1:14pm
  - Paulus
    
    Suggest you read Chris Trotter’s comments – he will be shunned, excommunicated or arrested for his last two blogs on his site.
    For the original true Labour man he is stunned at what is happening now and says so.
    Thanks Chris !
    
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    June 27, 2021 2:25pm
- tf78
  
  I don’t think it’s the platform that gets penalized I think it’s the only the person.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:56am
  - Tall Man
    
    Not sure about that. Didn’t DPF receive some form of legal threat regarding posts on the labour youth camp assailant?
    
    Why?
    
    5 1
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    June 27, 2021 1:57pm
- Fidel Cashflow
  
  Yes, a good work-around is to make the government, not some poor oppressed/aggrieved/confused minority group, the subject of statements:
  
  “The government’s policy of third world immigration will inevitably lead to social disunity and destroy the social fabric of this country. No government in the world now, or any government in history, can point to the successful integration and assimilation of such large amounts that would justify this policy. The opposite is true. The government should reconsider their policy of fomenting disharmony, and place the issue before the public via a referendum. Moreover, the government’s acceptance and promotion of transgender ideology is an affront to nature itself.”
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:10am
- Nukuleka
  
  So does this mean that I could be prosecuted for a hate crime were I to say something like ‘I think a man can never become a woman, that transwomen are not women and that trans people have a mental health issue that needs to be addressed by therapy, counseling and psychiatric intervention’?
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:24am
  - MCos
    
    No more likely than I would get prosecuted for saying you’re a dick for asking the question.
    
    3 20
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    June 27, 2021 10:20am
    - Tall Man
      
      However, moderation may remove your pathetic comment, at least it chould.
      
      Opinion is not always fact especially in your case.
      
      4 1
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      June 27, 2021 1:55pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Soon you will not even be able to ‘think’ that, let alone say it
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:54am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Depends where you said that. If you walked up to a trans woman and said that, she could complain to the police and under the new law I think it likely that you would be prosecuted.
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:42am
    - nathie
      
      Or say a group like Speak Up for Women is allowed to hold an event (!) … trans activists could simply turn up (without protesting), sit in the audience and record the event, then lodge a complaint with the Police afterwards saying they were subjected to “hate speech” (and have the Police raid the homes of SUFW organisers and speakers and arrest them … at any random time).
      
      This “Hate Speech” BS proposal will truly have “chilling consequences”.
      
      No-one will be able to hold public events for fear of prosecution.
      
      Labour/Green’s proposed totalitarianism needs to be called out and stopped, now!
      
      3 1
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      June 27, 2021 2:20pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Facts are what they no say they are. So if your opinions are not coincident there may be difficulties dealing with a bunch of bullying liars.
    
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    June 27, 2021 1:17pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  The core assumption behind “hate speech” is that people cannot think for themselves and will blindly follow what others tell them.
  
  If I say “________” is evil and inhumane, I must be guilty of inciting hatred against those who practice ________. Can my audience not make up their own mind and reject me as a crackpot (and now a known crackpot) if my statements are harmful or likely to lead to trouble?
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:34am
- Nickc2
  
  IMO, this hate speech stuff is all about the current Govt protecting its arse. I would even go as far as to suggest their aim is to silence criticism, ultimately leading to the installation of a Political Dictatorship.
  
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  June 27, 2021 10:49am
- Maxx
  
  That’ll make campaigning come election time difficult. That is literally individuals or groups against each other on political opinion. For hatred to be “incited” does not require acts of violence – I personally feel attacked everytime Little opens his mouth. Not a huge stretch for normal campaigning to be labeled as an incitement of hatred.
  
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  June 27, 2021 11:05am
  - Yvette
    
    Maxx, it may depend on what exactly you say.
    
    I could say – “Ardern tells lies – to the entire world – like when she addressed the New York Climate Summit and said ‘We aim to plant one billion trees by 2028 – 150 million are already in the ground’, but they weren’t – most of those trees planted were commercial Forestry re-plantings with the intention of cutting down about the same number of mature trees elsewhere in their forests.”
    
    That is likely just fact.
    But if I added – “It lacks honesty, integrity and transparency – so don’t vote for a lying, non-delivering Labour Party in Election 2023”
    it has become negative targeting of a specific group and inciting an action to their detriment.
    
    Has it become hate speech?
    
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    June 27, 2021 12:26pm
    - Tall Man
      
      “ardern is a liar” may not be hate speech yet but it certainly gets the flick in certain places …….
      
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      June 27, 2021 1:50pm
- alloytoo
  
  Rights should not vest in groups. Rights should vest in the individual.
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:49pm
Greg Ettridge

SB2 made a completely outrageous claims yesterday about the religion of peace.
Why would anyone allow the warped sick ideologies of a Somali to settle in your country without really serious vetting.
95 % are Muslim and 95% butcher children with genital mutilation.
Why would you butcher a young child, it doesn’t make a great deal of sense to me.
Hundreds have been butchered in NZ and Australia and very few ever convicted.
Or I will rephrase that, they are taken overseas to have the butcher do their work.
Maybe the down tickers would like to defend this abhorrent practice.
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June 27, 2021 8:27am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  All of this man’s victims were female.
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/06/victims-of-german-knife-attack-were-all-women-police.html
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:53am
  - SB2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    And Brenton Tarrance and Anders Brevik made no distinctions between young and old , men or woman, male or female.
    
    Be informed for a change about the Warzburg attack,
    
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57618354
    
    And deal to your Islamaphobia too.
    
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    June 27, 2021 9:19am
    - Shaun the Sheep
      
      *Tarrant
      
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      June 27, 2021 10:17am
    - Swifty
      
      Strange goings on in St Lukes
      
      https://leakreality.com/video/15322/back-at-home-with-happy-wives
      
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      June 27, 2021 10:27am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Who the hell is Brenton Tarrance?
      It’s TARRANT, idiot. Do keep up.
      
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      June 27, 2021 10:42am
      - Swifty
        
        It’s hard typing accurately one-handed
        
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        June 27, 2021 11:18am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      “Brenton Tarrance”
      
      Perhaps it’s a miss-spelling to evade the algorithm?
      
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      June 27, 2021 10:49am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      So if you’re to all appearances an islamist terrorist (“Al’s Snackbar”) the default position is you have mental issues
      
      I’d say based on that Breivik and Tarrant could fairly claim the same mitigation
      
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      June 27, 2021 11:19am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      And deal to your Islamaphobia too.
      
      What Islamaphobia, SB2?
      
      Produce one scrap of evidence that I have a phobia/hatred/antipathy against folks practising their Islam faith.
      
      Produce one scrap of evidence that I have ever treated a Muslim any differently to how I treat other human beings.
      
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      June 27, 2021 1:09pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        SB2 seems deficient in reason and borders occasionally on hate too.
        
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        June 27, 2021 1:20pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Kev O’Brien
        
        Yep,
        I’ve been subjected to his personal attacks for years on this blog.
        
        He probably didn’t take kindly to me pointing out that describing the breasts of young Muslim girls on Kiwiblog was an incredibly offensive and even dangerous thing to do (as he gave the location and time the young girls were seen).
        
        He probably also hasn’t been too chuffed when I reported his inciting a contributor to commit suicide (in graphic detail).
        
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        June 27, 2021 1:25pm
      - SB2
        
        Dislike, ill will directed towards Muslims . A reasonable inference based on your 8.35am post IMO
        
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        June 27, 2021 2:42pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        @Maggy Wassilieff
        I’ve seen his activity and it pains me. This is a good blog site but SB2’s mind is irritating small, spuriously focussed and his personal attention deserves a Moderator’s look.
        
        Take heart, you make a very able and appreciated contribution.
        
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        June 27, 2021 4:30pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @SB2
        
        Dislike, ill will directed towards Muslims . A reasonable inference based on your 8.35am post IMO
        
        NO!
        
        I made no mention of this chap’s religion.
        
        Read the article and it tells us that he is a recently treated psychiatric patient.
        
        I pointed out that all his victims were females.
        
        That is the point that interests me..
        
        now YOU have assumed he stabbed females because he was a Muslim… Not me.
        
        I don’t know why he only stabbed females
        
        Was it because he was a coward; was it because of his psychiatric condition; or some other reason?
        
        Perhaps it is time you stopped trying to paint me as a
        person who is a racist, an Islamaphobe, a neo-Nazi, mad or delusional, because you’re producing a remarkable record of defamatory posts on this blog.
        
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        June 27, 2021 6:37pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        @ Kev
        
        He’s just not very bright tbh
        
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        June 27, 2021 8:05pm
  - kowtow
    
    They’re all on Merkel and her breaking the law in order to look good ( or was it , like Blair’s govt to teach people a lesson in “multiculturalism” )
    
    It’s scary that a genuine discussion of these issues could be viewed as a crime .
    
    Right now there’s an interesting debate in England over the issues around the Batley by election . That could also get you into trouble .
    
    But this is exactly what the New Authoritarians want and it’s anti democratic.
    
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    June 27, 2021 9:44am
- SB2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Genital mutilation is not confined to Muslim African countries but Chrsitian countries like Uganda too.
  
  Both are trying to indicate what is an ancient tribal custom
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:16am
  - SB2
    
    “eradicate” not indicate obviously.
    
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    June 27, 2021 9:20am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Are you defending FGM?
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:10am
  - Jack5
    
    SB2 should note that in Britain, with a Muslim minority, the incidence of female genital mutilation occurs mostly in these communities: Eritrea, Ethiopia, Nigeria, Somalia and Sudan.
    
    Wikipedia reports the worst is the Somalia diaspora, with nearly 42,000 women and girls in the UK believed to be affected as of 2011.
    
    From the New Zealand FGM web site:
    
    There is no documented evidence that FGM is practised in New Zealand. However, New Zealand has a growing number of refugees and migrants from countries that practise FGM, and many of these women have already undergone FGM.
    
    https://fgm.co.nz/faq/
    
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    June 27, 2021 1:30pm
    - SB2
      
      Jack5, I repeat FGM is not confined to African Muslim countries but Christian ones too. Neither is an Islamic or Christian practice but an ancient tribal custom predating the former two,
      
      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-uganda-women-fgm-idUSKCN1PJ0X9
      
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      June 27, 2021 2:46pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  Nobody’s going to defend the abhorrent practice, but some might wonder how its potential victims are helped by not letting them into countries where the law prohibits the practice and so forcing them to stay in countries where they have no protection at all.
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:19am
  - Tall Man
    
    Happens here as well unfortunately Albert and some head elsewhere to get it done.
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:07am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      Can find figures in Australia, they say 53,000 and many are done in Australia.
      7 year sentence in NZ, wonder how many have been convicted?
      
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      June 27, 2021 11:50am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Yes, but so what? How does that affect the point I made? Are you suggesting that it wouldn’t have happened, or that it would have been less likely to happen, if the families of the girls concerned had not been able to move here and had instead stayed in Somalia or wherever?
      
      Here, it is more difficult for a family to get its daughters butchered, and therefore those girls are more safe from butchery here than they would be in their families’ countries of origin.
      
      Certainly, it’s not impossible and they’re not absolutely safe.
      
      But it’s still better, if you want to improve their chances of avoiding being butchered, for them to be here than there.
      
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      June 27, 2021 12:35pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I don’t agree at all.
        
        We aren’t here to save the world, despite what you and ardern think.
        
        People who come here and still wish to live barbarically do not deserve to be here and if an immigrant/refugee desires to live here but not make an effort to join the team of 5 million then they don’t deserve to be here either.
        
        I would prefer that the world do it’s best to improve the lives of those in their own countries rather than provide bolt holes for a few.
        
        There are 16 million in Somalia, do you want to save them all or just a few?
        
        As an aside, sort of, I spoke with a commando who was persuing pirates into Somalia and he said they have nothing, not even a cardboard box to put “nothing” in (he was French). Maybe our refugee resources could be better directed than towards agencies clipping the ticket and people smugglers robbing and raping their customers.
        
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        June 27, 2021 1:45pm
KevO'Brien

How climate alarmists dodge the data. Also the redistribution of the worlds wealth through environmental policy.
https://videos.whatfinger.com/2019/09/22/my-gift-to-climate-alarmists-climate-alarmists-debunked/

Some interesting graphical manipulation and new tools.
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June 27, 2021 8:39am
krazykiwi

Matt Hancock has resigned as UK Health Secretary. In so much as one screws, so shall one become unscrewed.
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June 27, 2021 8:41am
Maggy Wassilieff

A prescient Don Brash

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/the-future-of-new-zealand-is-at-stake
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June 27, 2021 8:44am
- SB2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  “prescient ” ??
  
  LOL
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:25am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yes, of course.
    
    Read the article..
    
    Don Brash was discussing the problem of a nation about to be divided along racial lines by a Labour Government back in 2004.
    
    What sort of nation do we want to build?
    
    Is it to be a modern democratic society, embodying the essential notion of one rule for all in a single nation state?
    
    Or is it the racially divided nation, with two sets of laws, and two standards of citizenship, that the present Labour Government is moving us steadily towards?
    
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    June 27, 2021 1:14pm
    - SB2
      
      He bleated about that in his infamous Orewa speech , lost the next election and was deposed as leader of the National
      
      The rest is history as the saying goes.
      
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      June 27, 2021 2:50pm
- kowtow
  
  All good , but I also want a sovereign New Zealand , not beholden to the CCP.
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:47am
Maggy Wassilieff

“Bestowing privileges on a few results in enormous costs for the many.”

Nicholas Kerr looking at Ardern’s dismantling of our economy.

https://nkerr.com/unleashing-new-zealands-potential-and-suppressing-washington-states-lessons-for-texas/
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June 27, 2021 9:00am
- lazza
  
  Yes Roger Kerr was first, Owen Mc Shane second … now Stephen Joyce.
  
  And yes Ardern is unwinding the solid policy base that these three gentlemen established for our beloved Nation.
  
  “Hell” … “hand cart” … anyone?
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:21am
- KevO'Brien
  
  A good refresher. Thanks Maggy.
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:24am
- GJM
  
  I read that at first as “bestowing privileges on a few results in enormous costs to the Nanny”
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:54am
  - Tall Man
    
    No nannys were harmed in the governance of our country ………
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:54am
  - Pharmachick
    
    Anyone who has a nanny is a rich pri*k, off with their heads. All children should be at kura…
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:49am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      We don’t say kura in NZ. They could be confused with crayfish.
      This embroidery of English with Maori words has got to stop.
      
      Maori will never take over under the subversive He Pua Pua outlines.
      
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      June 27, 2021 1:26pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        KevOB,
        
        koura is crayfish,
        kura kaupapa (kura for short) is a Maori immersion kindergarten, transliterated to school of learning the past/subjects/projects/ancestry etc (kaupapa has multiple meanings depending on context).
        
        One of the advantages of growing up in Tok, I’m part of the small % of NZ that speaks Maori. Due to lack of use it stretches me these days a bit though, esp. some of the fancy new “words” invented by Uni academics in the 90s/00s (not the portmanteaus, they’re easy enough), mine is a bit more of a dialect these days as learned at several teachers knees rather than “standardized” Maori taught in schools/high schools/Uni.
        
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        June 27, 2021 1:45pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        PS I was deliberately referencing He Puapua or whatever nonsense it is. Will ensure to enable sarcasm font in future.
        
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        June 27, 2021 1:46pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        @Pharmachick
        Thanks, I hope I wasn’t unintentionally rude .
        Te Reo would certainly had a place earlier in Tok.
        
        I got a little sensitised from having spent 7 years in Samoa and being moderately fluent in its street language. That gave me an insight into how Maori was now obsolete except for specialty Marae needs.
        
        We would be creating more problems than solutions by attempting to enforce its use here. It’s already full of transliterated English loan words and frequently grammar is ignored.
        I will strongly oppose He Puapua.
        
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        June 27, 2021 4:47pm
- Tall Man
  
  A good read but will fly over the heads of most, especially those that are currently making the decisions.
  
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  June 27, 2021 10:52am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Gonna post a picture of a Biden Parade when I find one …..
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June 27, 2021 9:11am
- MCos
  
  Something I saw on Twitter might interest you for your car, Steve.
  https://twitter.com/don98914738/status/1408894111000629248?s=21
  
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  June 27, 2021 9:57am
  - Fidel Cashflow
    
    Look at the low angle of this shot. This makes about 20 people seem like a much larger crowd. Nobody claims that a lot of people don’t believe the obvious election fraud. But can we please get a photo of a large group of people being drawn to Biden? (and no, the thousands of National Guardsmen stationed in Washington to protect Mr Popular and his illegitimate regime does not count).
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:27am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Not following you, interest me for my car?
    Anyway, I have a Landcruiser with a badge that says ‘Redneck Edition’
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Now I see it. The picture keeps changing.
    Fortunately I am not a man of faith
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:49am
- Inandout
  
  Steve, old Joe doesn’t need parades you see, he merely creepily whispers ‘I gave you $1.2 trillion and made employers pay you more’ and the hordes lay back further on their couches. But you see, Joe got 81 million votes, the most ever; what a man!
  
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  June 27, 2021 10:01am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Thought that was in NZ??
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:23am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Some machines where tampered with and gave Joe 80 million votes. 80 million people did not vote for Joe, that is the difference
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:51am
    - Paulus
      
      Nothing wrong with the US counting machines only with the operators.
      
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      June 27, 2021 2:31pm
slightlyrighty

So, I noticed that Gas Prices are the highest that I’ve ever seen them. Rent and house prices are through the leaky and mouldy roof, I have no idea when I’m getting the Covid jab the authorities say I’m now able to have.

1.9 Billion of health Spending has resulted in 5 extra beds

The National Grid is about to take on the extra work of charging thousands of EVs, never mind the fact that we are importing coal at record levels to keep things going now!

We have huge Labour Shortages, about to be exacerbated by Aussie Based headhunters.

Schools are now removing the obligation of students to undertake level 1 NCEA, because the dearies might get stressed.

Houses are still not being built, as the supplies needed to build them are in short supply, and the stuff that is in country, is way expensive.

In every measurable metric, this government is a disaster.

So why bring out Hate Speech laws now? Is this legislative sleight of hand??
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June 27, 2021 9:21am
- ecco
  
  They are just shoring up their refugee vote.
  
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  June 27, 2021 11:47am
Maggy Wassilieff

Throwing money away on useless programmes in Prisons

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/445610/drug-treatment-in-prison-environment-very-ineffective-counsellor-says
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June 27, 2021 9:40am
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, $5 million is pin money to Grant. He has a bag of borrowed money to dip into. On a more serious note, there is a shortage of a wide range of products from TVs to building materials. Roofers have no materials to finish jobs, the scaffolding sits unused and to top this off even scaffolding is in short supply. The Greens must be laughing watching our consumer society slowly descending into chaos.
  
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  June 27, 2021 10:07am
- Tall Man
  
  “71 percent less likely to return to prison in the first 12 months after treatment”
  
  A bit of word soup there.
  
  Why are they “not” returning? Are they “not” committing offences or are they “not” being incacerated because the judge buys into the “treatment” package …..
  
  It would also help to show the numbers involved because like mental health, there is a bottomless pit of demand but a severely limited supply of counsellors.
  
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  June 27, 2021 10:11am
- cmm
  
  It seems to me that many of these prison programmes are not really designed to get people off drugs. Instead they are:
  1) A wee trough for the service providers.
  2) A “boy scout badge” that the prisoner can wave in front of the parole board to “prove” their commitment to being a good boy and being worthy for release.
  
  Rinse and repeat for family violence courses etc.
  
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  June 27, 2021 10:18am
- mikenmildagain
  
  One thing that article shows is that Corrections actually evaluates the effectiveness of programmes, and cuts or changes them accordingly. Some years ago, it cancelled its ‘Straight Thinking’ programme after it was clearly shown to have little or no impact on reoffending. By contrast, more intensive programmes, such as those for violent offenders, or child-sex offenders, have shown much better results.
  Brooking is correct, of course, that programmes delivered outside prison are much more effective, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be any rehabilitative programmes for inmates.
  
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  June 27, 2021 11:34am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The quality of the programs too can be disastrous. Counselling can be toxic.
    
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    June 27, 2021 1:29pm
Yvette

Hate korero (after Devoy)
Clearly since Government is heaping the instigation of the proposed “hate speech” legislation on the report of the Royal Commission into the Christchurch massacres, aspects of this relates to a minority group and their religion: the Muslim Community – even although Tarrant tragically was all action and few words.

However while Muslims may number about 50,000 in New Zealand and be a minority, the religion itself is not, being Islam with 1.8 billion followers world wide, and second only to Christianity at 2.382 billion.

However will any restraints applying to Islam and its followers, be also conferred on followers of Christianity?

For example, will the blasphemy of Christ’s name receive attention – it being unacceptable in the religion, so demeaning to Christians as a qualifying group. Will the character ‘Dr Drew McCaskill’ (actor Ben Barrington) of the television series SHORTLAND STREET, when law is passed, be required to refrain from such an offence, as it demeans New Zealand Christians?

No wonder neither Kris Faafoi nor Ardern seem to be able to define exactly what they want New Zealand to have a national conversation about.
Even although, strangely, they can be precise about penalties – up to 3 years jail, or $50,000 fine – they can’t say precisely what for.
With any luck this “national conversation” will go the same way, with the same result, as the “conversation” we didn’t really have on Capital gain Tax.
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June 27, 2021 9:42am
- cmm
  
  As I said yesterday, the purpose is to have a chilling effect on any discussion/commentary. This is far more effective if we’re never given the details and the laws are arbitrary.
  
  I’m certain that these laws will not be applied in a principled way.
  
  “Madonna or the Whore” and “piss Christ” are going to be acceptable.
  
  “Hijab or whore” and “piss Mohammad” will be hate speech.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/125456079/sex-workers-destigmatising-their-profession-through-art
  
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  June 27, 2021 10:23am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Will such statements as:
    
    “It’s OK to be ________________.”
    
    and
    
    “__________ is right about women.”
    
    also be construed as “hate speech”?
    
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    June 27, 2021 10:52am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I shouldn’t think so. “Piss Christ” or “piss Mohammad” are no doubt offensive expressions to the followers of those particular brands of magic, but they are well removed from inciting hatred towards Christians or Muslims.
    Exhortations to kill all Muslims or Christians, or expel them from NZ, would be more likely to attract legal sanction.
    
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    June 27, 2021 11:28am
Suze Wainwright

So a play on Charlie Chaplin’s life is being cancelled at the University of Canterbury because his womanizing will make some students feel ‘unsafe’. I wonder if they’ll ever run a play about the real life guerilla activities of Fidel Castro & Che Guevara (& Raul, too of course) and consider audience safety at the same time?
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June 27, 2021 10:14am
- Jack5
  
  Sorry Suze, I didn’t notice this post and doubled up on it later.
  
  Don’t know whether the checking queues contributed, but I didn’t notice your post till late.
  
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  June 27, 2021 1:20pm
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    All good Jack – of course it would be impossible to believe in this day & age that a character such as Charlie Chaplin would ever be cancelled because of his Romani (Gypsy) heritage…!
    
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    June 27, 2021 5:14pm
- oldfella
  
  Suze, I reckon that proposed movie about Jacinda would make even MORE people feel ‘unsafe’.
  Or at least very nauseous. 😉
  
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  June 27, 2021 2:06pm
Waipuk

Did I see a very glossy ad on the TV last night for Three Waters?

According to our Dear Leader isn’t Three Waters just an Iwi discussion paper?

He PuaPua here we come.
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June 27, 2021 10:16am
- mikenmildagain
  
  No, Three Waters is a programme under way to reform local government management of drinking water, waste water and storm water.
  
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  June 27, 2021 11:24am
  - Waipuk
    
    Indeed, giving Iwi co ownership of all waterways.
    
    But our Dear Leader said it was only a discussion paper put forward by Iwi and not government policy.
    
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    June 27, 2021 12:48pm
CAKE FACE1

The only times I can remember writing or saying what could easily be defined as “hate speech” is when I discuss socialism.

Socialism is responsible for the murder and destruction of more lives than any other ideology I can think of in history.

I believe that I’m within my moral rights to hate this ideology, and I would go so far to say it is my responsibility as a good citizen to point out loudly and often the failures of this system.

This could get interesting…
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June 27, 2021 10:29am
cmm

Peak woke. Are we there yet?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/university-of-canterbury-cancels-chaplin-the-musical-over-concerns-about-his-womanising-scandalous-life/H3LJTQCBU4XHVXZ5IY6KLMTPMQ/

Unless he committed rape, what’s the problem? Surely most of the women he “womanised” chose to shag a celebrity just as many groupies have done through history.
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June 27, 2021 10:36am
- Tall Man
  
  I often wondered if hitler’s mum ever met him ……… 😉
  
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  June 27, 2021 10:57am
Maggie Pie

Arrived home from Mass a little earlier. Found my partner STILL in bed, forlornly thumbing through his copy Webbs Auction Catalogue for…..
‘Collectors Cars & Motor Cycles’.

It was due to be held today at the ASB Showgrounds, but sadly, after about a hundred years of operation, it went into liquidation last week!!
Probably due to all the event cancellations brought about by last years Covid lockdowns?

God only knows where they will hold things like the ‘Easter Show’ and all those wonderful Persian Rug sales in the future.
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June 27, 2021 10:43am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Surely you don’t need to wait for a sale to afford a Persian rug, Maggie.
  
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  June 27, 2021 11:12am
  - sooty
    
    Everyone is entitled to a bargin!
    
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    June 27, 2021 6:42pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Lots of places in Auckland for Persian rugs sales Maggie.
  
  https://www.pacific.org.nz/
  
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  June 27, 2021 11:18am
- surfing
  
  The Cornwall park trust needs to pull their head in.
  
  I don’t know why any sane person would deal with this mafia mob.
  
  Maybe it is a case of ‘fool me once fool me twice’?
  
  Hopefully a law change is coming to fix this in the future. Although , successive labour and national governments have ignored the absurdities of this trust.
  
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  June 27, 2021 11:54am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    My partner was just saying he’s heard rumors they may be looking at building a huge ‘Retirement Village’ on the grounds. Given todays land values and the central location, probably makes more sense than a Showgrounds.
    
    15 1
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    June 27, 2021 12:20pm
  - oldfella
    
    Surfing, you just called the Cornwall Park Trust a mafia mob. Hate speech? Hmm 😉
    
    4 0
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    June 27, 2021 1:26pm
- kevn
  
  @Maggie… For a moment I thought you were saying Webbs Auctions had gone down. Phew.
  Glasgow leases, amazing to still be in place 2021. Banned in the UK.
  
  8 1
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  June 27, 2021 12:11pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    That’s right Kev….owners were very concerned their vehicles may have been caught up in the Liquidators hands 🙁
    Wouldn’t be the first time something like that happened.
    My partner had his eye on a wonderful old motorbike that he wanted to display in our Vestibule. He’s not sure yet where the new location for the auction will be but he’s hoping the move may have taken some of the hype out of it.
    
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    June 27, 2021 1:15pm
Aldousk

I think that Faafoi is one of the better ministers. His performance in this interview seems to suggest that he is not at all comfortable with this proposed legislation, and he us certainly smart enough to see tbat it is likely to result in an electoral disaster if it is enacted and Collins (or whoever) promises to repeal it.
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June 27, 2021 11:18am
- slernz
  
  I think you are being too kind to Mr Faafoi.
  
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  June 27, 2021 6:36pm
Maggie Pie

One of the girls from tennis reckons 40% of Auckland would have been vaccinated by now if they’d mixed it with coke.

LOL!!
23 2
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June 27, 2021 11:47am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

I see where 45 has opened a verified account on Rumble.
(Rumble is YouTube’s competitor)
160,000 viewers currently watching Trumpys rally in Wellington, OH on RSBN and over 20,000 on FB.

MAGAnificent!!
22 4
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June 27, 2021 12:02pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Crowd is now chanting “4 more years”
  
  14 4
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  June 27, 2021 12:11pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    https://rumble.com/vj2p7j-live-president-donald-j-trump-in-wellington-oh.html
    
    9 4
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    June 27, 2021 12:12pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      Excellent. Where’s Batty boy? 😆
      
      11 2
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      June 27, 2021 12:31pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        In the basement with Mike
        
        13 2
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        June 27, 2021 12:37pm
      - Fidel Cashflow
        
        Those two are never seen together in the same comment section. Curious.
        
        10 1
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        June 27, 2021 12:56pm
      - sooty
        
        Are you suggesting they are the same person?
        
        4 0
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        June 27, 2021 6:38pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Now reading ‘The Snake’ the crowd love it
    
    7 4
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    June 27, 2021 12:15pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      The man is an absolute genius!
      Last time Sleepy held a rally 3 people turned up. LOL!!
      
      17 3
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      June 27, 2021 12:23pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Not a lot of people there, but in context Lorain County has 6000 pop
        
        7 3
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        June 27, 2021 12:26pm
      - doggone7
        
        Why waste all the effort of getting more than three if over 80 million vote for you?
        
        5 1
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        June 27, 2021 1:20pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    Why are they quoting George Gregan?
    😉
    
    11 1
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    June 27, 2021 12:51pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Well done
      
      11 1
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      June 27, 2021 12:54pm
Jack5

Surprised no-one’s posted yet about a Canterbury University society cancelling a musical based on Charlie Chaplin.

Charlie liked his women young, very young.

Announcing that the Addams Family Musical will replace Chaplin, the University of Canterbury Musical Theatre Society said on Facebook that some members had raised concerns about the selected show.

Chaplin gave people all over the world so much laughter and enjoyment this is sad.

Chaplin’s brilliant political satire of the Great Dictator, his artistry in films like City Lights and Gold Rush … gave hundreds of millions of people a laugh and sympathy in harder times.

Cancel culture is sick, very sick.

Chaplin whacked at university:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/university-of-canterbury-cancels-chaplin-the-musical-over-concerns-about-his-womanising-scandalous-life/H3LJTQCBU4XHVXZ5IY6KLMTPMQ/
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June 27, 2021 12:43pm
Gravelroad

Have been watching the first day replay of the Tour de France.
Some stupid woman on the roadside holding out a cardboard sign caused a massive smash up.
And what amazingly important message was written in crayon on the sign?
English translation: “ Go Grandpa, Grandma”.
Immediately after the crash, this brave person ran away.
No thought for injuries, unrideable bikes, places in the field.
Organisers say they are going to sue.
Hope they throw the book at her.
Probably will get away with it as – ”mental health issues” or helpless drug addict.
15 1
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June 27, 2021 1:13pm
Jack5

Policeman in hospital after being king hit (coward punched) in an Auckland brawl.

In rougher days the thug would have been given a rough ride to the police station.

Nowadays it will be probation and counselling.

Prison is being reserved for speech offences.

Note the Woke heading at Stuff, Home of the Woke: “alleged assault”.

How do you put a policeman in hospital with a coward punch without it being assault?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300343177/police-officer-hospitalised-with-serious-concussion-after-alleged-assault-in-central-auckland
19 2
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June 27, 2021 1:24pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Newshub reporting a man was arrested at the scene, then taken back to Central where he was told…. “his behaviour was unacceptable” before being released.
  
  13 3
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  June 27, 2021 2:11pm
  - SB2
    
    ????
    
    From the link,
    
    “The alleged behaviour displayed by the man was unacceptable, police said.
    
    The man was arrested at the scene and would face charges in the Auckland District court on Monday.”
    
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    June 27, 2021 3:02pm
Fisiani2

Stockholm syndrome in Wellington.
7 0
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June 27, 2021 1:52pm
Maggie Pie

And this from Trumpy’s speech in Wellington just 15m ago…..

“I’m not the one trying to undermine American democracy. I’m the one trying to SAVE American democracy!”
13 3
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June 27, 2021 1:58pm
- Steve Todd
  
  My favourite was when he said that someone told him, “You have to be the most honest person in history.” I laughed and laughed.
  
  Had it not been for you, Maggie, I would have missed that. Thank you!
  
  3 6
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  June 27, 2021 2:10pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Must be ‘fake news’ //
    
    6 2
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    June 27, 2021 4:58pm
- SB2
  
  MP” I’m the one trying to SAVE American democracy!”
  
  You don’t say. He has far more important things to worry about.
  
  New York grand jury stores up trouble for Trump Organization executives
  
  Glimpses of the deliberations behind closed doors suggest a case is being built against Trump’s CFO, Allen Weisselberg, which could be bad news for his boss
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/17/trump-organization-allen-weisselberg-new-york-grand-jury
  
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  June 27, 2021 2:55pm
Happychappy

Who runs this Government Jacinda Ardern or Rod Oram.
Rod Oram : Next, sort out the fishing and Oceans. The Government has massive reforms underway on resource management and the three waters- but its the next environmental priority should be a new fisheries and oceans policy , writes Rod Oram.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/politics/next-sort-fishing-and-the-oceans
The same story with the Greens and their backers give them a inch and they will take a mile.
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June 27, 2021 1:59pm
Pharmachick

Can I just send a shout out to everyone in Kawerau right now. The mill is closing and it will devastate the town, which already has unenviable employment, teen pregnancy, domestic violence and suicide statistics. I saw it happen in the 80s and 90s when Kinleith went from staff of 2500 to around 200-300.

I’m not suggesting the mill should be propped up if it’s not financially viable (that’s communist nonsense), just empathizing with another small town going through hardship. After all, what is a town? It’s the people right (rhetorical).
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June 27, 2021 1:59pm
- jgw739
  
  Yes Pharma, tough for the locals in Kawerau to see the paper mill close. Unfortunately, it has been in decline for some time and we can only hope that employees have made alternate arrangements.
  A rough year for local industry in the Eastern BOP with the cardboard mill at Whakatane narrowly avoiding closure, although time will tell how long it stays open for.
  
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  June 27, 2021 6:12pm
- skyblue
  
  Very sad indeed.
  
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  June 27, 2021 6:18pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Kinleith in the eighties and nineties!!
  I went to a meeting in late 1980 in my town addressed by Ken Douglas who was laudatory in his praise for the workers at Kinleith in the huge strike in 1980. Men who were staunch and stood their ground and won a wonderful victory against those dreadful employers. Those men were the salt of the earth. They would not let their mates down. etc etc.
  I am not sure if I can correctly spell that Greek word “phyrric” properly.
  
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  June 27, 2021 6:37pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    shuffle the h along…
    pyrrhic
    
    3 0
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    June 27, 2021 8:29pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    Don’t even start with me on that Tauhei. Real father of Pharma is her stepdad, biological father of Pharma is a boilermaker…
    
    1 0
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    June 28, 2021 7:17am
oldfella

The Power Line week in pictures. Good for a laugh.
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/06/the-week-in-pictures-biden-time-edition.php
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June 27, 2021 2:01pm
Pharmachick

Oh hi, me again.

I just saw the following on Stuff:

“Indeterminate test result under investigation

A person with an indeterminate test result for COVID-19 is under investigation to determine whether they are a case or not.

The person returned a weak positive result, with a very high cycle threshold, or CT value.

A subsequent repeat test is underway with results expected today, which will help provide more information as part of the ongoing investigation.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300342970/covid19-nz-live-wellington-remaining-at-alert-level-2

So I reached out to a person I haven’t spoken to for ages…

Despite that I never have, and still don’t; support the anti-vcxx, anti-testing, anti-masking etc comments on this site, I want to acknowledge that at least one or two commentators have raised the issue of “over cycling” in PCR. Easily 6-8 months ago I questioned and rubbished this, and applied our own rigorous standards – that more than 25-30 cycles is excessive. Simply put, I couldn’t and didn’t believe that a national public health agency and their testing labs would use [as variously reported] 35, 40, or 42 cycles.

Let me be clear now in my statement as a professional scientist and Pharmacologist:

THAT IS MADNESS AND WILL RETURN FALSE POSITIVES.

The virus is real, it is scary and it kills… but the people on this blog reporting that “positives” were in some cases reported with 40+ cycles weren’t wrong. That is utterly shocking. I am speechless, and WTF New Zealand?

And I unreservedly apologies to those I maligned.
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June 27, 2021 3:00pm
- [email protected]
  
  Your blog made me research PCR testing and I learned a lot. So the virus that causes Covid19 is an RNA not a DNA. To amplify the occurrence of this RNA they have to first turn it into DNA using enzymes. Also learned that if your body has successfully fought off the RNA virus you will return a negative test because there is no RNA virus left to turn into a DNA.
  
  I think you scientists are amazing to be able to do all this. It also scares me to know that scientists are able to manipulate viruses to make them more deadly.
  
  I don’t know whether to hug you or kick you!
  
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  June 27, 2021 5:03pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    Yes, but with that many cycles, the fidelity of the primers is even in question… basically an infinitesimal mistake in annealing (primers “anneal” i.e. they bind to complementary bases at certain temperatures [latter is called Tm]) can be amplified by logs and logs. So even in the absence of virus or viral remains, false positives are possible.
    
    As for kick us or hug us… to be 100% honest its a little of both. It is Far. Too. Easy. for the science to get ahead of the ethics (said every military bioscientist ever and as well, those working in human reproduction research, which I know more than a little about).
    
    Most of all, thank you so much for being interested in the science/technical aspects of what we do. Makes my heart happy if even one person is sparked.
    
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    June 28, 2021 2:41pm
SB2

The latest from Trump’s sinking ship. Call 911 US coast guard

“Trump Organization braced for criminal charges from Manhattan prosecutor”

Lawyers for former president’s company were warned of potential development in video call this week

The Trump Organization and its chief financial officer, Allen Weisselberg, are bracing for criminal charges from Manhattan district attorney Cyrus Vance as early as next week, according to people briefed on the matter.

https://www.ft.com/content/6054c95b-a1cf-477e-a456-ce35e919960f
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June 27, 2021 3:09pm
thetiedarch

Not a single community case of COVID in Wellington has been discovered. Yet not only are they still in lockdown, but it’s being extended?!?

Ridiculous fear mongering from the govt and their media buddies.
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June 27, 2021 3:22pm
- Cinematic
  
  It’s almost as if the powers that be want the virus. At least a little outbreak.
  
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  June 27, 2021 8:16pm
- mandk
  
  What else do you expect from Jacinda’s mob?
  
  They are going to milk the fear of Covid as much as they possibly can, because they are completely useless at everything else.
  
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  June 27, 2021 10:57pm
Happychappy

This from Jacinda Ardern and the Goverment she runs and a Government that blamed and abused the previous Government for what they call Nine years of neglect and underfunding.
Nursing shortage : Starship Hospital workers ‘commonly end up in tears’,’make mistakes’ as understaffing takes its toll.
A nurse at Aucklands Starship Hospital says shortage of workers is so dire that staff are quitting in their droves due to stress and ‘commonly end up in tears’ during shifts.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/06/nursing-shortage-starship-hospital-workers-commonly-end-up-in-tears-make-mistakes-as-understaffing-takes-its-toll.html
This from a Government that likes to ignore on money they spend but don’t care to stuff’s about those on the front.line like nurses that are quitting in droves .
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June 27, 2021 4:22pm
rererangihirihiri

Groundswell NZ
Provincial towns across New Zealand, 16 July 2021, midday
Farmers, tractors, ute owners, ute drivers, tradies, supporters of rural New Zealand, everyone who despairs at the rubbish coming out of the beehive it’s time to push back on the dictators and wrestle our country back or at least send them a message that there will be a fight.
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June 27, 2021 5:47pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump’s 2024 slogan should be “I told you so”
TDS idiots in 3 2 1…..
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June 27, 2021 5:51pm
Tall Man

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/06/government-to-ban-raft-of-single-use-plastics-by-2025.html

Easier than dealing with child murder and economic destruction.
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June 27, 2021 6:18pm

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