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June 30, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 30 June 2021

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General Debate

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Happychappy

A question that needs answering regarding the hate law discussions that are hogging the headlines.
Has the Government or our Prime Minister silenced the Jounalists on One News Political section or has her two buddies Jessica Mutch and Mikey Sherman decided they don’t agree with the criticism that the Prime Minister is receiving on her New Hate Laws she intends to push through Parliament.
I ask this because One News online has not had a article on this since the 25th of June , while the media on a whole have condemned , criticized and generally poked fun at the Prime Ministers inability to answer Questions or even understand the law she is promoting.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/news/politics
It’s one thing to show your alliance to the Prime Minister over her time in charge but another to go silent on a subject that is wrong and archaic and will divide New Zealander’s at the cost to the taxpayer that pay these Journalists wages.
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June 30, 2021 8:00am
- Master Mariner
  
  Whats the difference between 2nd Gulf war and embedded jornalism and here in NZ today.?
  Im picking not much.
  
  On another note check out this.
  https://gcaptain.com/maersk-encourages-just-in-case-supply-chain-model/
  Time to get xrissy presents now.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:26am
  - Fidel Cashflow
    
    It’s Chrissy, not xrissy.
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:06am
- G152
  
  What more (or less) could you expect of our media wide fake news????
  They’ve been bought.
  Time to get our news from the Net, at least there are places (like here) where we can carp, comment and criticize
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:34am
  - oldfella
    
    G152, yep, carp, comment, and criticise … until fatboy’s new Hate Speech law comes in.
    Then… not so much!
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:33am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    For the time being at least.
    
    The noose is slowly and surely tightening.
    
    It started with education our children are being taught what to think not how to think.
    
    Who would have thought students would have been taken out of school for climate protests.
    
    They have taken control of the media. News is now press releases from the government.
    
    People were encouraged to dob in neghbours during lock downs.
    
    Censoship in the form of hate speech, who gets to decide what is hate speech.
    
    History being rewritten at a stagering rate. Statues being pulled down, city’s, towns, and roads being renamed.
    
    A modern day book burning.
    
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    June 30, 2021 11:13am
- Paulus
  
  They want their Wedding Invitations !
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:40am
- Stellaboxer
  
  The problem I have with both RNZ and One News isn’t that they are so obviously ideologically aligned with these barrow of monkeys but that the tax payer is funding them. The government doesn’t seem to see a problem with that either which illustrates just how trustworthy they are. Our democracy is not safe in such hands. I recall a tame leftie at a BBQ I hosted saying that the old east block soviet style governments would not happen “next time” but here we are with a government indulging in media control, censorship by omission and the cultivation of a cult of personality which Freebase defines as
  “A cult of personality arises when an individual uses mass media, propaganda, or other methods, to create an idealized, heroic, and, at times god-like public image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise. Sociologist Max Weber developed a tripartite classification of authority; the cult of personality holds parallels with what Weber defined as “charismatic authority”. A cult of personality is similar to hero worship, except that it is established by mass media and propaganda.” Wicktionry describes it thus “A situation where a leader has been falsely idolized and made into a national or group icon and is revered as a result.”
  They are now pushing through legislation that will severely curtail freedom of speech and what amount to blasphemy laws. BTW Happychappy you made a serious factual error in your piece, you described them as journalists.
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:12am
  - Fidel Cashflow
    
    Yes, all accurate. But keep in mind that they see themselves as morally superior, thereby justifying anything and everything they do and think. They can buy the media to ensure the “correct” message is promulgated, transform the nation irrevocably, change the demographics substantially, give a militant minority more power over everyone else, lower everyone’s (except their) standard of living, and even out the naturally occurring disparities, because of one reason: they are “right.”
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:11am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      I agree
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:24pm
    - Bluegrass
      
      @ Fidel.
      
      Indeed. The hard Left exist in a kind of arrested development, stuck in an undergraduate mindset. Hence their constant search for victims [the ‘vulnerable’ etc] to champion; wrongs to right; battles to fight.
      
      And any debate or opposing viewpoint is strongly resisted, because that challenges the hard Left’s moral superiority in their self-appointed role as guardians of the gates.
      
      To be accused of being wrong is an existential threat to their weltanschauung. Opposing views are viewed as heretical in the cultural Marxist theocratic hive-mind. Those who challenge their views are labelled as rednecks/racists/misogynists etc etc, in an attempt to close out any debate.
      
      Where does this road end? Answer – totalitarianism.
      
      #born left, die right.
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:29pm
- Positan
  
  Petition:
  
  “I call on the Government to stop their planned hate speech laws.”
  
  http://www.fsu.nz/save_free_speech?recruiter_id=10022
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:23am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Signed, shared.
    
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    June 30, 2021 11:05am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    I noticed the incredibly convenient reports of the posting on the “Deep web” ,as described by tv one news , of 3 separate and unconnected threats to the Christchurch mosque. Truly amazing in there timing and absolute proof of the need for Labour’s hate speech laws. Obviously being made on the dark web makes it difficult for joe average to verify but I would thought equally difficult to gain the attention of the mosque goers !
    
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    June 30, 2021 12:21pm
  - grumpy
    
    Done
    
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    June 30, 2021 1:02pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Jessica Not So Mutch and Maike Mic Sherman are screaming fans of the Queen of NZ. They will do anything to protect the Queen bee.
  
  Bro, the average sheeple walking on the street looking for a beer is NOT bothered by the hate speech laws. These are the sheeple who vote Labour. So the Queen of NZ is on safer ground to pass the law and come out unscathed. Judith Waste of Space Collins can scream from the top of the roof saying National will repeal this law. But by the time National gets back into power in 2035, sheeple of NZ will be so numb and used to this law, National can’t do anything about it.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:09am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Of course Jess and Mikey will get a big shock if they are thrown in jail of worse some time in the future when not if a very Right Wing Government is in power and subjects that they say to Hate Speech Laws. Remember whats good for the goose is good for the gander.
  The Left always forget that. Times and governments change. Nothing is forever.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:38am
  - kglm
    
    Indeed social attitudes and morals change over time. What one generation regards as “correct”, future generations are likely to regard as “misguided”. History clearly shows that. Social attitude and morals evolve, but there is no one correct position that we are evolving towards. These things tend to go in cycles. I believe that future generations will, in time, cycle back to more conservative beliefs, and come to regard the ideas of woke-ism as absurd and morally deficient. A wise person does well to realise there is no one universal moral truth.
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:56am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Cindy4ever bro.
    
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    June 30, 2021 6:11pm
- theoldbloke
  
  Has anyone considered that this bill is set up to fail?
  
  The PM promised new hate speech law.
  Then found its a bloody minefield.
  
  So if it disappears off the radar she will have met her promise and not have introduced something that would loose her the next election.
  
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  June 30, 2021 5:17pm
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Happy Asteroid Day!
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June 30, 2021 8:00am
- JibberJabber
  
  It’s getting to the stage when one can’t arrive soon enough…
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:32am
  - MCos
    
    You might be having a bad day.
    That’s no reason to destroy the world!
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:19am
- krazykiwi
  
  97% of scientists agree that there’s one heading to your place right now, milky. Better hide under the bed.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:34am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I think 100% of scientists would agree that one is headed my way, kk. It’s just the timing that is uncertain.
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:24am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      “ 98% of quotes on the internet are made up on the hoof” Abraham Lincoln.
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:48pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      So you are not a scientist? That is SO amazing Mike.
      Congratulations for not being an expert in that field.
      Next please, like please continue with your knowledge
      
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      June 30, 2021 6:57pm
krazykiwi

Here’s what I believe is the thought process underpinning political leaders’ response to Coronavirus:

1. If people get sick and die, I will be blamed.

2. If I’m blamed, I’ll have my rule terminated via inconvenient democratic pushback

3. I like power, so I must avoid being blamed no matter the cost to those I rule over

4. To justify that cost I must manipulate data, control the media and promulgate junk science.
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June 30, 2021 8:01am
- Cinematic
  
  Quite.
  
  I see in a Stuffed article today some mathematicians in Canterbury are claiming 97% of the population will need vaccinating before we can have our freedom. The lunacy of these ‘academics’. Drunk on notoriety.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:12am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It is a pointless study and stupid article. They have bought into Jacinda’s elimination strategy. Here’s the best way to think about it. Measles is highly infectious but the vaccine is 99.9 percent effective. So if we all get our kids vaccinated you can eliminate measles except for the odd case that gets in through the border.
    
    The covid vaccine is much less effective.. Their 97 percent number would only matter if we were trying to “eradicate” Covid. That ain’t happening. The vaccination program will allow covid to become endemic in New Zealand while dramatically reducing its incidence, and especially any serious illness and deaths.
    
    That is the only plan that will work. I am still not sure the PM got the memo.
    
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    June 30, 2021 8:47am
    - exkiwi
      
      Benedict I think that you are very sensible and have a balanced view of Covid. I agree that Covid should be taken seriously and vaccines rolled out to all those at risk before NZ should open up.
      
      The question as you say is what is going to happen once NZ gets good vaccine coverage (let’s say 70%). That’s when the discussion is going to get more difficult. The benefits of being closed will start to be outweighed by the advantages of opening up.
      
      What is absolutely astounding to me is that people like Hendy and Plank, physicists and mathematicians and not even epidemiologists or public health experts as far as I can see, are arrogating the right to themselves to decide political questions in the guise of public health.
      
      Frank is quoted in the Herald today: “We’re not going to one day magically hit a population immunity threshold where we can open the borders and everything goes completely back to normal. It will be more of a gradual relaxation of border measures alongside continued testing and contact tracing measures.”
      
      It is very dangerous for scientists to assume the right to make these kinds of decisions for the general public, given the restriction on public liberties that they entail.
      
      I think that the lack of public debate in NZ about these matters is lamentable. And scientists like this need to be challenged and held accountable.
      
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      June 30, 2021 9:28am
      - SilverSurfer
        
        exkiwi surely you jest ” Scientists like this need to be challenged and held accountable”
        
        What kind of fantasy land does this happen in?
        
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        June 30, 2021 12:59pm
      - Ehlana
        
        exkiwi, I think the question will be somewhat different. What happens when all the people who want to be vaccinated are? It may not be a sufficiently high number for herd immunity, but I don’t think we can keep our borders closed forever.
        
        Some clarity from the government on the forward strategy here would be useful. Let’s say only 60% of people want vaccination right now and 80% is herd immunity. So should we re-open when we have 60% coverage, plus enough vaccines on hand for another 20%, should they want them?
        Will we re-open only to other countries with verifiably similar percentages?
        
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        June 30, 2021 1:57pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        It may not be a sufficiently high number for herd immunity
        
        You appear to have fallen for the well cultivated lie that herd immunity requires vaccination. It does not. Herd immunity is attained when sufficient* numbers of people are seropositive to SARS-CoV-2 as a result of exposure to, and natural recovery from the pathogen .. and also .. those who’s bodes respond to the ‘vaccine’ as intended.
        
        If herd immunity relied on a vaccine then humanity would have been wiped out before we escaped the caves. So look on the bright side: Your very existence today, and your participation in this discussion is due to natural herd immunity.
        
        *There is a widely varying percentage target here with, not surprisingly, the most enthusiastic advocates of ‘vaccination promoting the >75% figures. I’ve seen research suggesting much lower numbers, circa 40%.
        
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        June 30, 2021 2:35pm
    - Phronesis
      
      The inability to admit that the only reason to vaccinate NZ is so we can let the virus in is bizarre. It should be part of the consent process for the vaccine as it is impossible to make a rational choice about whether to be vaccinated without knowing if the government is going to choose to expose us all to the virus.
      
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      June 30, 2021 9:47am
      - krazykiwi
        
        The government won’t make a decision about ‘exposing us to the virus’. That’s nature’s role, as it has been for millions of years. The government can maintain it’s King Canute-like belief that it is in control. It is not.
        
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        June 30, 2021 12:09pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I’m not sure whether you are being sarcastic. I can assure you that we will all be exposed to the virus. Or do you think we are going to have closed borders and quarantine for the next 50 years? Because that is the only alternative.
        
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        June 30, 2021 1:51pm
      - alwyn
        
        @Benedict.
        “we are going to have closed borders and quarantine”.
        I am sure our lords and masters have looked at North Korea and observed that it seems to work pretty well there. Not for most of the residents of course but the ruling family seems to be pretty happy with the idea. Can you not visualise St Cindy as the first in a line of hereditary rulers?
        I’m sure some of her acolytes can.
        She, and a few others will be allowed to travel of course. They are different.
        
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        June 30, 2021 6:36pm
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Her only plan of action is to enforce lockdown. Sheeple are happy to accept it without a murmur. So what is the big deal?
      
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      June 30, 2021 10:11am
  - cmm
    
    The numbers they throw around in these models are pretty arbitrary and the methods they use for these models is even more sketchy.
    
    Faucci’s herd immunity numbers have been up and down like a pair of knickers.
    
    At one stage he was saying around 80%, then they realised they’d never get there so he dropped it to 70%. Now it’s probably different yet again.
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:10am
    - virtualmark
      
      The percentage required for herd immunity is solely driven by the contagiousness of the disease in question.
      
      Measles is the gold standard for contagiousness, which is why herd immunity requires something like 99% of the population to be vaccinated (or exposed).
      
      Covid … I don’t think anyone yet has any solid numbers for exactly how contagious it is, and it’s still a moving target because different variants are thought to have differing levels of contagiousness. We know how contagious measles is because we’ve been dealing with measles for centuries. Covid … still learning.
      
      At the moment the most solid estimates for Covid herd immunity seem to be in the 70%-ish range. But I expect that number will move around a bit over time.
      
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      June 30, 2021 4:10pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    In the UK right now, stats are showing that people who have been vaccinated are dying from the Delta variant.
    
    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/nearly-30-those-dying-delta-20812363
    
    As you would expect, 53% of deaths are in people with no vaccination, but 30% of deaths are in people with both vaccine shots but only 17% are from those with only one vaccine shot.
    
    However the number of people with one shot outnumbers those with two shots. Given that one shot gives only a small percent protection, wouldn’t you expect deaths in one shot cases to be much higher than deaths in two shot cases?
    
    https://tinyurl.com/x8zerx9n
    
    Does having two shots decrease your immunity to the Delta variant?
    
    Is this like the W C Fields quote – “First prize was a week in Philadelphia. Second prize was two weeks in Philadelphia.” ?
    
    Or is the Delta variant being triggered by the vaccine? Should we be concerned that the mRNA vaccines are creating Covid-19 mutations?
    
    If the creator of the mRNA vaccine process has serious doubts about the safety of the mRNA vaccines, should we?
    
    https://www.westernjournal.com/inventor-mrna-vaccine-asks-one-inconvenient-question-looks-like-plausible-scenario/
    
    Should we be jumping in “boots and all” to a vaccine that has not been tested and which potentially could modify DNA? Where the humans are the “lab rats” or “guinea pigs” and long term effects won’t become obvious for months or years to come?
    
    There is a reason why it takes a minimum of five years to get a vaccine certified, and that is so side effects, both short term and long term are identified.
    
    Some time ago, before the Covid-19 vaccine emerged, while Moderna were still experimenting with mRNA, Moderna were asked if the mRNA could modify a persons DNA?
    
    Moderna replied that it couldn’t, unless a person already had an immune deficiency disease, but that the liklihood of it altering a person’s DNA under those conditions “was unlikely.”
    
    [1] What percentage is “unlikely”.
    [2] Isn’t one of the effects of Covid-19 is that it disables the body’s immune system?
    
    Are we in danger of creating DNA altering events that have a tragic outcome? DNA is pivotal in the aging process. I’m not a religious person, but supposed ancient man live hundreds of years.
    
    Supposedly God altered man’s DNA to shorten his life. Was that “God”, or some ancient advanced civilisation “playing God” by playing around with DNA alterating drugs and vaccines?
    
    “Adam Lived 930 Years and Then He Died”
    New Discoveries in the Biochemistry of Aging Support the Biblical Record.
    
    https://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/longlife.html
    
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    June 30, 2021 11:02am
    - zulumonster
      
      “Given that one shot gives only a small percent protection, wouldn’t you expect deaths in one shot cases to be much higher than deaths in two shot cases?”
      I can only think those with 2 shots are possibly more likely to be in the higher risk groups like the aged or with existing health issues. Otherwise there is no obvious reason for this.
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:58pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Adam didn’t live to be 930 years old, and neither did Methuselah live to be 969. Just sayin’
      
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      June 30, 2021 8:33pm
  - Bobba Fret
    
    I still cant get past Shaun Hendy’s 80,000 people could die in NZ from Covid. I think if we all went around licking toilet seats or something that could be a possibility.
    
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    June 30, 2021 12:17pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      It’s all marketing spin and hype.
      
      Much like the spin that “Every week, over 300,000 New Zealanders win at Lotto. Despite the facts that of those wins:
      
      [1] 84% are bonus tickets with a couple of free lines.
      [2] 15% are less that the average weekly spend by person.
      [3] 0.15% are far less than a years spend on lotto.
      [4] 0.004.5% are prizes worthy of note.
      
      Yet, despite the odds, people still buy Lotto tickets because of marketing hype. If a Lotto ticket purchase replaces a purchase packet of fags, or booze then that is an upside.
      
      On the current statistics in NZ, you have a ten fold chance of winning the main Powerball or Lotto prize, as you do of dying with Lotto, let alone dying from Covid.
      
      Sometimes people like Hendy make predictions in order to get some on-air time and exposure, shooting his mouth off in the middle of a media frenzy.
      
      Perhaps he hoped no-one would notice or remember months later that he was wrong. Much like Jacinda, shooting her mouth off, hoping that everyone else is like her, and won’t remember what she said a day earlier..
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:57pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Lotto is a tax for people that can’t do maths.
        
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        June 30, 2021 8:35pm
- Scott
  
  Totally agree krazy. What also bugs me is the rule of the experts. The Michael Baker’s of this world suddenly have relevance and respect and everyone must listen to them and do what they say. You could just tell he was dying to lock down Wellington for one case of one visitor who tested positive in Sydney after visiting Wellington. You could tell he was disappointed that he didn’t have the opportunity to send the good Wellington people and the Wairarapa people to their homes.
  
  The problem is that the doctors and the virologists only know one thing. They are terrified that people will die if they recommend opening up. So they will always always veer to the side of maximum caution, no matter what the consequences.
  
  And they do not have the bigger picture. That’s what our elected officials are supposed to have. You may lockdown but at what cost to the economy, to people’s mental health, to people’s physical health as other ailments are not treated, to the general well-being of the community. The virologist has no idea about those things??
  
  I would like us to make better decisions based on commonsense and a due sense of proportion. Not freak out over one case of one person in Sydney who tested positive for the virus.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:22am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Top epidemiologists: Officials ‘overreacting’ to Delta variant
    Common cold quality.
    https://www.wnd.com/2021/06/4927110/
    
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    June 30, 2021 8:36am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      I’ve seen a few analyses suggesting that the Delta variant is more transmissible but far less deadly than earlier variants. See for example the UK situation where the Delta Variant dominates but death rates are now very low (and still a large proportion of population unvaccinated)
      
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      June 30, 2021 9:08am
      - DeepBlue
        
        It is not really surprising that a virus doesn’t want to kill its host, far better to infect and move on to as many people as possible.
        
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        June 30, 2021 12:38pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        That is observed, in general viruses tend to evolve to be less virulent as a dead host is typically less “useful” than a live one. They also tend to evolve to spread better though that trend is less marked.
        
        Modern medicine may disrupt the virulence reduction though, if it is able to keep people alive far better. Thus a high virulence is less of a selection pressure.
        
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        June 30, 2021 1:27pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Thecquestion that needs to be explained is.
    How do they asses in doing there Risk Assesment whick leads to lockdowns and shutting down/ opening up bubbles.
    I mean seriously how hard would it be.?
    Least population could monitor and understand further responses in advance.
    Like everything with this crowd they seem to be adverse to any stsatistics and monitoring and recording.
    Here in lays the problem.
    
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    June 30, 2021 8:42am
    - cmm
      
      Of course they do risk assessments, but just not of the risks that matter.
      
      They SHOULD do a risk assessment that assesses the risk to the people.
      
      But what they end up assessing is the political/professional risk to themselves of doing X?
      
      This leads to worse outcomes for the people, but better outcomes for the people that matter (ie. them).
      
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      June 30, 2021 9:17am
      - Master Mariner
        
        Nearly impossible to disagree unfortunately
        
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        June 30, 2021 9:25am
    - Nickc2
      
      I think her aim is to have as many NZers as possible ‘Poor and Panicking’ as she can. That way, the introduction of Communism/Socialism is pretty well guaranteed. When people are both Poor and Panicking, where food comes from and who made it available is irrelevant. The same can be said for Water.
      I see the Minister administering water is well on her way to achieving that. However, she hasn’t mentioned for obvious reasons that Maori are going to clip the ticket so to speak of every water bill issued from the four water agencies she is about to install.
      
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      June 30, 2021 1:53pm
  - I remember when
    
    The real fact is that despite declarations and advice given for something like fifteen months now, very like new science has been revealed.
    The general public is more likely to be advised by way of a article with no hard facts than be given any new advice about covid.
    Apart from the fact that they were a health risk, what did we learn about the transmission of covid during Donald Trump’s Presidential rallies.
    Is being in the open air with reasonable spacing a very low infection risk activity.
    Where is the latest research about risk of reinfection if you have already had covid.
    Why do we get cases where there is high infection of the general public and others without.
    There’s more daylight at a mushroom farm.
    
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    June 30, 2021 8:53am
    - doggone7
      
      I wonder what would have happened if epidemiologists and scientists weren’t referred to, everything being left to health bureaucrats and politicians. With the bureaucrats told they weren’t to consult epidemiologists and scientists.
      
      I guess epidemiology evolved from some sort of need. It seemed that years of study and experience in virology and epidemiology by some could be dismissed so quickly by those who’d likely never opened a science textbook past form four at high school.
      
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      June 30, 2021 11:14am
    - JackRabbit
      
      The general public is more likely to be advised by way of a article with no hard facts than be given any new advice about covid.
      
      All spin, no specifics. And Doctors and scientists who try and present specifucs, are ridiculed, debunked, banned from Youtube and removed from Google’s search engine, if the specifics they present do not not support the media spin generalities.
      
      Is being in the open air with reasonable spacing a very low infection risk activity.
      
      There are only 2 or 3 documented cases worldwide of people being infected while at the beach.
      
      Wide open spaces, low density housing, and low density travel is what saved NZ. Not Emperor Jacinda. The Emperor has no clothes, and the public are slowly waking up to that fact.
      
      “Lets ban the motor car and make travel people by bus or train.” – Catch a bus or train and let Covid catch you.
      
      “Take public Transport, it’s safe as houses.” – Next Tui Billboard. Maybe MIQ houses.
      
      “Why do you think that people,
      From all over planet earth,
      Are buying boltholes in New Zealand,
      At a cost of considerable worth.
      
      It ain’t because of Jacinda’s,
      ‘Be nice’ and flashy smiles,
      It’s because of wide open spaces,
      With no neighbours for many miles.
      
      How do you want to travel,
      In a subway sardine can,
      Or in a V8 farming Ute,
      Just because you can.”
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:22pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Very good. 🙂
        
        3 1
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        June 30, 2021 5:12pm
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Scott I agree with your analysis however this government is happy to engage in nonsensical caution as opposed to measured response because it wants to fulfill its social agenda before the fear wears off and the smiling zombies begin to frown.
    
    17 1
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    June 30, 2021 9:27am
  - Bluegrass
    
    I hear that the decision makers, experts, politicians, public servants, academics, advisers et al. still all get paid during lock-downs.
    
    Way to go.
    
    Takin’ it for the team, right?
    
    18 1
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    June 30, 2021 10:17am
  - oldfella
    
    Scott, you used the phrase ‘maximum caution’.
    Now that Cindy’s found a better word that ‘caution’, I think we should all follow glorious leader and start to call it an ‘abundance of cautiousness.’
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:41am
- Stellaboxer
  
  spot on
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:21am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Jaspinda’s private little black book just got plagiarised.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:14am
- Fidel Cashflow
  
  The better explanation is that they are simply doing what they have been told to do, even if it makes no rational sense.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:14am
Colville

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300345221/national-party-is-selfdestructing-former-minister-says

IMHO he is not wrong.
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June 30, 2021 8:02am
- Tomtoddy
  
  Yes, he may not be wrong but how does it help the situation? Finlayson was always a very liberal, grandstanding smartie who was miles out of step with the majority of the party.
  
  If he was genuinely concerned and not just looking for a headline he would be working behind the scenes to effect change. Always easier to pull down than to build up.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:32am
  - peterwn
    
    I think he is part of the problem.
    
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    June 30, 2021 8:54am
  - kowtow
    
    Exactly . Why can’t these people think and act for the good of the country , to stop seeing everything through the prism of their party , its factions etc.
    
    If he’s talking to the press like this he’s as much a part of the problem as the ‘leakers’ .
    
    You’d really have to wonder what the hell is going on .
    
    As to factions and frictions I was never impressed with Finlayson leading the perpetual top up /give away to certain chosen tribes , crazy.
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:00am
  - tf78
    
    Tom, just said exactly that to my husband. He really has gone down in my estimation.
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:11am
    - Agricola
      
      Bit hard on your husband, aren’t you?
      
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      June 30, 2021 9:41am
      - alwyn
        
        That depends on what her estimation is.
        
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        June 30, 2021 12:19pm
  - MCos
    
    There’s too much ‘working behind the scenes’ going on in the National Party right now.
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:12am
  - Matt Long
    
    I’m guessing Finlayson is trying to undermine conservative elements in National and install a unifying wet that will expell said conservative elements creating a happy socialist unity party.
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:36am
  - doggone7
    
    Hit a nail on a head with, “If he was genuinely concerned and not just looking for a headline he would be working behind the scenes to effect change.”
    
    Do you think it would be more efficacious if those in forums like this actually got involved working behind the scenes and not just whined from the sidelines?
    
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    June 30, 2021 11:19am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Would they know how? Pseudonym would likely be the first thing to go …..
      
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      June 30, 2021 11:48am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Findlayson the wettest Nat MP since Todd Muller, responsible for perpetuating the Treaty gravy-train to our eternal cost. Wouldn’t cross the street to piss on him if he was on fire.
    
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    June 30, 2021 8:56pm
- Inandout
  
  That man made good coin out of treaty settlements prior to entering parliament, and bingo, he is made Minister of Treaty Settlements. Then after this stint he is back making coin.
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:22am
  - BananaLlama
    
    If i remember right that con-man held Pakeha responsible for the Chatams genocide.
    
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    June 30, 2021 11:02am
- Fidel Cashflow
  
  I saw the phrase “brand destruction” and I stopped reading. Finlayson is a liberal in all aspects, so he is part of the problem. The fact that his opinion is being sought by Stuff tells us all we need to know. Wheeling out a gay former MP to criticise the current leadership convinces me they are doing the right thing.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:20am
  - Paulus
    
    Which is why he was part of the problem but now gone !
    
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    June 30, 2021 1:40pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  I do think it’s time Goodfellow took a long hard look in the mirror. Labour have Clare Szabo a young Jacinda wannabe as their president. They seem to be doing a good job of controlling the social media (and media in general). Perhaps it’s time National got someone a bit more in touch.
  I wonder what the election loss report said about Goodfellow?
  
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  June 30, 2021 12:21pm
JibberJabber

Babylon hit it out of the Park … again…

https://babylonbee.com/news/frustrated-women-demand-trans-women-in-public-restrooms-stop-leaving-the-toilet-seat-up
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June 30, 2021 8:02am
Ronin

This is pure gold from The Babylon Bee:

https://youtu.be/20cE8Xz38Cw
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June 30, 2021 8:04am
gorse

Findlayson had my utmost respect once, not now. Typical of the National party, he chose to shoot his mouth off to the media, instead of dealing with his gripes with the people concerned, behind closed doors. While its members continue to choose this path, they are doomed to the opposition benches. Good for the ACT party though.
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June 30, 2021 8:04am
- Tall Man
  
  I also wondered why he was not addressing this behind closed doors. Perhaps “treaty” business is not as lucrative as it once was.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:26am
- SGA
  
  Yeah, curious. Could be a range of reasons – perhaps he has tried behind closed doors but he feels it’s like talking to brick wall or deaf ears? Perhaps he has an axe to grind with some of those who are dictating the party’s direction? Perhaps he feels this is the only way to rattle the cage enough to do any good? Or some combination of such things?
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:07am
  - PeeJay
    
    I was thinking the same – he may well have tried but hit the proverbial brick wall. Although with Findlayson, one can never be too sure as to his motives. It could be as simple as genuine concern, or perhaps even angling for some ‘Covid Relief’ funding!
    
    While not a smart move talking to media, as it just adds fuel to the fire and keeps the ‘disorganised rabble’ narrative going, he’s not too far off the mark really IMHO. Sure, it is aided by the $50m bribe to the media party, but National are looking shambolic at the moment. Their messaging is all over the place, their selected messengers are either a hit (Simeon Brown take a bow) or a total miss and easily beaten by their opposite (listen to any Nash v Mitchell session on Hosking – Nash comes out most days looking statesman like!). Working in construction, I’ve seen many a project where it’s on a surefire route to disaster, but those at the top are so sure of their brilliance, they go full steam ahead and ignore the warnings. It’s looking to me like there is something similarly wrong in the National party at the moment, it’s bloody obvious that it’s not right, but those at the top seem relatively happy to carry on – as evidenced by Goodfellow being retained. I hope I’m wrong, and miracles do happen in politics, but they just don’t look like a polished, organised, on-message government in waiting. I suspect if this continues, the only way Ardern will lose the next election is if the financial tsunami of money printing comes home to roost and/or we get hit by an inflation surge (very possible) or even stagflation.
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:00am
  - Fidel Cashflow
    
    Finlayson and others of his era are yesterday’s men, and are partly to blame for the current mess. He should shut his hole.
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:23am
  - Tall Man
    
    It will be interesting to see if he’s a lone wolf or others emerge from the woodwork.
    
    I think it may be a bit of payback for Muller but who really knows. It just seems odd to cristicise leaking then address that issue with the media.
    
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    June 30, 2021 3:15pm
    - SGA
      
      He’s no longer in parliament, so he’s not “leaking” anything as far as I can tell. He’s publically expressing an opinion from outside the tent, as it were.
      
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      June 30, 2021 6:30pm
- Isobar
  
  I’m sorry but i do not agree. These are the people who want to govern New Zealand, they do not by right get to do it and they have to earn the trust and respect of the electorate and show that they are capable of doing the job.
  
  In order to do that we need Transparency, we need to see that these people can work together well, they have a good set of policies and a vision that relates to kiwis. Hiding things behind closed doors is a terrible answer. There’s no point in pretending as they did in the last election they were a strong team, they were a joke. If they are not ready to govern, that’s ok – it takes time to rebuild. But dont try and BS us and tell us everything is great when obviously things are in a terrible state.
  
  Free Speech goes both ways and if the answer is locking opinion down and having some sort of fake positive PR campaign from National HQ is hardly going to build trust with the electorate. The public are smarter than that – and they can smell a rat.
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:24am
Chuck Bird

It looks like it might make zero by tht time I start tennis shortly. Roll on global warming.
27 1
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June 30, 2021 8:05am
- hullkiwi
  
  ….ahhhhh, but if you lived in Vancouver, you might think Greta has a point.
  
  There again pigs might fly!
  
  On that note,Great says don’t listen to me, listen to the scientists. The problem is none of “the snouts in the trough” global warming alarmist are saying, the blindingly obvious, which is:
  
  “The gases in the atmosphere are a direct result of human activity. To cut the composition of so called greenhouse gases, you have to stop the increase in human population, not tinker around the edges as being suggested by snouts in the trough activists, business people and politicians”.
  
  Jacinda says she wants a conversation about this “generation’s nuclear free moment”. Well there you are Labour trolls, is your leader up for a real debate, or is she not properly briefed?
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:19am
  - Master Mariner
    
    If honestly serious about it then they would take the “free” out of nuclear momment.
    
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    June 30, 2021 8:59am
    - Happy1
      
      MM, nuclear power can be ruled out here for so many reasons before you get to the radioactive bit. Earthquake risk, having a very large base load unit in one spot, difficulty of providing for backup for maintainable outages, the problem of having a “one off” industry etc etc.
      
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      June 30, 2021 11:20am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Plenty of places have sufficiently low earthquake risk, and use multiple reactors on a single site with adequate independence so each unit can be operated separately. The selected site, Kaipara North Head, is well suited.
        
        It may be relatively expensive to start up and to gain the expertise, but would provide long term base load that NZ is going to desperately need before too long.
        
        And what are the alternatives ?
        
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        June 30, 2021 1:33pm
      - Happy1
        
        Ed, the alternatives are more geothermal for base load, (currently 850MW) and wind and solar with the lakes acting as the battery. Of course more hydro.
        
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        June 30, 2021 2:21pm
  - I remember when
    
    I noticed that buried in the hype about the extreme heat in Vancouver they mentioned that they don’t usually get these temperatures until August.
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:45am
  - Pharmachick
    
    I live in Vancouver.
    
    Greta doesn’t have a point.
    
    Some (not all) climate scientists have [some] valid points. Greta is not a climate scientist.
    
    Last few days have sucked, given that my house doesn’t have aircon. We topped out at 35 C in my suburb, a colleague in Langley got to 42.
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:21am
    - hullkiwi
      
      …and I’ve skied the fields in North Vancouver when it was -20°F (winter of 1990-91).
      
      Yes, Greta is pointless. However, that doesn’t stop TVNZ streaming a modern day version of Al Gore’s “Inconvenient Truth” with Greta the star of her own doco film. With tagged lines from the woke media telling viewers it is “extremely moving”.
      
      Where is critical thinking in this world gone?
      
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      June 30, 2021 10:39am
JibberJabber

We have been spoon-fed the spin from the podium of truth that Maori and Pasifika are the most vulnerable to the China flu.

https://tinyurl.com/yr7vymjx

These assumptions of course have been derived from times well before a burgeoning middle class of Maori (MCM) and Pasifika people in New Zealand who are smart enough to wipe their own noses correctly. Silly left wing European politicians treating Maori and Pasifika communities as though they are stupid and needing to be saved has in many ways fuelled the stupidity.
Despite this Maori and Pasifika are drastically UNDER represented in total Covid cases with just 7.7% and 7.3% of cases respectively despite consisting of 17% and 9% of the New Zealand population.

Of course, the leading Maori protagonist of the victimhood Rawiri Watiti wants Maori to be able to choose whether to be vaccinated.

There is absolutely no mana motuhake when Maori have chosen, as have all the Team of 5 million to be under control of a gawky health official who was in charge when NZ gave Samoan babies measles As well as an attention seeking woman with pink hair who seems to have done nothing to improve her own health this past year despite bossing everyone else around telling us we all might die. There is then an alarmist modeller who is consistently wrong reading tea leaves on an excel spreadsheet in his kitchen and not to be outdone, a celebrity Prime Minister. Ironically Maori rolled over and have ceded more in the last 15 months to this collective Muppet Show of average pale folk than they ever did all those years ago to the Crown and Captain Cook.
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June 30, 2021 8:09am
Tony Stuart

There’s a story on the Newstalk ZB news this morning about the Police investigating three separate threats towards at Al Noor Mosque in Christchurch.

It just struck my as interesting and convenient that this story has broken right at the time the Government is losing the argument over its proposed “hate speech” legislation.
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June 30, 2021 8:09am
- MCos
  
  Are you suggesting ‘Merv’ made the threats?
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:14am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Not at all MCos. As I noted to Maggy W below, the Police are usually reluctant to comment on active investigations. So why are they doing that here?
    
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    June 30, 2021 8:27am
    - Tricati
      
      Couldn’t agree more TS, as my cynicism meter went off the scale when this story broke.
      The timing is exceptional.
      
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      June 30, 2021 8:39am
      - kowtow
        
        Probably this week’s theme of the party phone call to the political editors from the 9 th floor.
        
        All the world’s a stage .
        
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        June 30, 2021 9:03am
      - alloytoo
        
        I don’t believe these are credible.
        
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        June 30, 2021 9:21am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Tony, the story was also on Red Radio. It was as such..
      
      “The head of the Assoc of Muslim Assocs finds a threat on the 4Tran blog site a threat to the Al Noor Mosque. News of which he passes on to the police, who he says responded in 8 minutes to his call to start an investigation. The police then confirm that there have been 3 such incidents in the past 2 weeks, which they are now investigating.
      
      Really… I suggest they pull the other leg, they’ll find it plays Jingle Bells.
      
      The item on Red Radio, still tried to paint “NZ has a hot bed of racist extremism”.
      
      Really? Tarrant was a lone nutter, who was under the radar, and posted his manifesto only 8 minutes before firing the first shot on 15/03/2019. He did not have associates, he was not making threats, and he was not making threats on extremist websites.
      
      As you say Tony, these stories are poorly contrived spin pieces to support PriNZess in her debate for “a hate speech law”. A debate she can’t event put forward, without getting her own arguments muddled.
      
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      June 30, 2021 8:47am
- Cinematic
  
  Try young Thomas’s opinion piece in Stuffed today claiming Judith has had a worse 2 weeks than Jacinda et al. A bizarre claim based on heavily clouded thinking.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:16am
- Scott
  
  Quite right Tony. For $50 million all our Prime Minister expects is a little kindness and a little support for her agenda. And it seems that it’s working?
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:17am
- Tall Man
  
  Actual threats are not hate speech.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:18am
  - MCos
    
    Depends what the threats are, of course.
    If there is a threat to kill someone unless they stop wearing a hijab for example.
    
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    June 30, 2021 8:52am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      Threaten to kill someone that doesn’t believe in a specific religion, is that hate speech?
      If it is, certain holy books maybe the first casualty.
      
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      June 30, 2021 9:26am
      - MCos
        
        Nobody has ever waved a Koran in my face and threatened to kill me if I didn’t convert to Islam, but if that happened in NZ & I thought the threat was real I’d notify the nearest constable.
        Would you?
        
        In the meantime it’s not something I’m anticipating.
        
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        June 30, 2021 10:30am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Might be OK for you, but ask the Christians in Northern Nigeria – over 3,000 have been killed by the Islamic Boko Haram in the past 12 months.
        
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        June 30, 2021 5:17pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Incorrect I’m afraid.
      
      Threatening to kill for whatever reason is already a very serious offense, unless you are one of the chosen and you make your threat against an opposition mp or a police officer.
      
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      June 30, 2021 9:35am
    - Flossie
      
      Threatening to kill is already against the law.
      
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      June 30, 2021 10:54am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yes,
  it is a bit self-defeating, though.
  
  There is already legislation on the books to deal with threats of violence … hence the Police and the SIS are already investigating the matter.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:22am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    And how often do the Police pro-actively comment on active investigations?
    
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    June 30, 2021 8:26am
    - Batman
      
      Tony surely you recognise that the conversation around free speech and hate speech will have triggered the little racist white boys on 4chan etc, and they have made threats.
      
      First news of the threat will have got to media via the community who were warned, and then media go and ask police to comment, who have to confirm it in a statement.
      
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      June 30, 2021 1:19pm
  - cmm
    
    It is highly effective because most people conflate the issues and are ignorant of the law. Reason does not play a part when emotions are involved.
    
    They play this game because they know it works.
    
    The way they will justify it is that mild hate speech provides a fertile breeding ground for threats and then actual violence – so better have the tools to weed the garden early.
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:23am
- Gravelroad
  
  @Tony Stuart-
  And even better, another “lets trash the National Party again “ story this morning.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:24am
- Yvette
  
  Tony, regarding the timing of publicising these incidents – after headlines like: • Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern under attack for defence of hate speech proposals, • Duncan Garner: Jacinda Ardern and Kris Faafoi have stuffed up the proposed hate speech law, and • Tova O’Brien: Jacinda Ardern has misled the public and shut down debate on hate speech laws – your questioning would seem to be supported by –
  Police have received three separate reports relating to the Christchurch mosque in the past fortnight; incidents a senior minister describes as “serious”.
  
  If the first incident was two weeks ago, why wait until now to publicise it?
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:28am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    And who was the “senior minister” who described the incidents as “serious”?
    
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    June 30, 2021 8:46am
    - hullkiwi
      
      …exactly, why is the minister nameless?
      
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      June 30, 2021 8:51am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Perhaps because it is entirely against the Cabinet Manual for Ministers to comment on active Police investigations…
        
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        June 30, 2021 9:33am
      - hullkiwi
        
        So Tony, how did a “senior minister” know about an “active police investigation”?
        
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        June 30, 2021 10:41am
    - Yvette
      
      The original media item seems to be RNZ
      An accompanying photo of Little is captioned “Andrew Little says the post is serious”
      
      And – Little, who is also responsible for the government’s response to the Royal Commission’s Report into terror attacks, says the post is serious.
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/445800/fresh-threats-against-al-noor-mosque-as-country-debates-hate-speech-reforms
      Whether another “senior minister” thinks it serious is not clear.
      
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      June 30, 2021 9:43am
- Paulus
  
  Well, well who would have thought that Andrew Little could be so devious !
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:43am
- Littletramp
  
  Perhaps they might consider wondering why that particular mosque was & apparently is being singled out. It was targeted for retribution by “what’s his name” from the get go.
  Is there a back story we aren’t being told?
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:58am
  - Tall Man
    
    Let’s see what eventuates from the investigation.
    
    “Threats” aren’t always threats.
    
    If this disappears from the front pages then I think we can all assume that we are being fed a “pup”….
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:48am
- Fidel Cashflow
  
  Fake. Astroturfed to bolster public opinion on an extremely unpopular policy. Expect more fake claims.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:26am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  100% agree the timing was impeccable.
  
  I had to wonder how credible these threats were, or if Police are trawling for Facebook shit-posts made at 1am by drunken loud mouths to show us there are dangerous people aplenty.
  I have a friend that posts ‘death to all humans’ type stuff in moments of misanthropy when on the booze. After a few decades of knowing the guy, I know how much significance to assign to it.
  
  But it also shows me, paradoxically, that they have proven we don’t need Hate Speech laws.
  Were someone makes a threat, or incites violence, the law can already act.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:38am
- oldfella
  
  Tony, I suspect the current laws give the police enough power to deal with these current threats.
  But for a journalist to point that out would undermine the need for any new hate speech legislation.
  The sudden arrival of which seems to have caught the Muslim community by surprise and they’re asking for more time to frame their response.
  Hmm.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:50am
fernglas

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/comment/world-must-learn-australia-zero-covid-disastrous-dead-end/
Even if you can’t get behind the paywall, the headline says it all, although it doesn’t mention that New Zealand is just as stupid and is also lining itself up for a disastrous winter.
Out there, the civilised world is opening up. Here, we are just starting to realise that we are closing down. Fools.
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June 30, 2021 8:10am
- MCos
  
  I’m not sure what you mean by ‘opening up’.
  All last summer there was no restrictions on crowd sizes at the cricket in NZ, but in England hardly anyone was at the big game NZ v India the other day.
  Some minister over there lost his job for snogging his girl friend.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:38am
  - fernglas
    
    Well, MCos, if your idea of a country opening up is how many people get to go to the cricket, then you might be right. I tend to associate it with freedom of movement between and within nations.
    
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    June 30, 2021 6:07pm
Scott

Great to see England prevail against Germany in the European soccer! Having had a very hard year it’s nice that the English have something to celebrate.

Unfortunately in my estimation the victory is marred by the English football Association determination to push awoke politically correct ideology at all times, both possible and impossible.

The England team took the knee to Black Lives Matter, a racist violent organisation who openly calls for destruction of the family and the overthrow of the capitalist system and the defunding of the police. Harry Kane the England captain also wore an armband in the gay colours symbolising Pride month.

What if you don’t agree with BLM, what if you don’t like that organisation? Are you allowed to not take the knee? Like heck!
What if you are a fan and caught booing the taking of the knee? Will you be barred from going to football games? Certainly lots of fans have booed but there is a campaign to suppress negative reaction to the taking of the knee. Which is an empty gesture of piety, somehow saying, I am a good person???

What if you don’t agree with the homosexual agenda? Do you have to be gay? Do you have to support gayness to play for England??

Freedom of speech is being demolished as we speak. Not only can you not say what you think, by being forced to take the knee and by being forced to wear gay pride armbands, certain speech is being compelled. Support for black lives matter and homosexuality is compulsory if you want to play for England. That seems to be the message the football Association is sending. Sad!
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June 30, 2021 8:16am
- SGA
  
  What if you don’t agree with the homosexual agenda?
  
  What exactly is the homosexual agenda?
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:12am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Guess this would cover it.
    
    legalize homosexuality
    promote gay pride parades
    demand non-discrimination laws
    insist on homosexuals’ adoption of children
    push the homosexual agenda in schools
    force “gay marriage” on society
    demand public funding to deal with increased
    homosexual-related social problems
    promote the transgender agenda
    impose a large-scale loss of free speech
    ban counseling for kids confused by homosexual issues
    attack churches
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:37am
    - SGA
      
      And which of these seem unreasonable to you, Greg? All of them?
      
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      June 30, 2021 10:10am
      - Fidel Cashflow
        
        Yes, all of them.
        
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        June 30, 2021 10:30am
      - Bluegrass
        
        How many times do you beat your wife? Once a week? Twice a week? Four times a week?
        
        Which of these seem unreasonable to you, SGA?
        
        See what I did there, bud?
        
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        June 30, 2021 10:30am
      - Batman
        
        Bluegrass, Greg is the one suggesting them after all, not SGA.
        
        The weird obsession with gay people is a hilarious giveaway for some.
        
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        June 30, 2021 1:22pm
      - SGA
        
        @Bluegrass
        
        Which of these seem unreasonable to you, SGA?
        See what I did there, bud?
        
        No, I don’t to be honest.
        
        Look at it this way – Greg’s first item is “legalize homosexuality”. Well, that was near on 40 years ago, so it’s hardly part of a current agenda. If Greg believes that homosexuality should be made illegal again, then most of what he then lists would follow naturally and his first item is what needs to be discussed. That’s why I asked the question.
        
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        June 30, 2021 6:35pm
      - Greg Ettridge
        
        You asked a question I gave you the accurate answer I could come up with where did I say I agreed or disagreed with any of it.
        
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        June 30, 2021 8:29pm
      - SGA
        
        I never said you did, Greg, but some of this clearly is ancient history (legalisation) and hardly a part of any current agenda, so I was curious why you brought it up and thought I’d ask.
        
        As Crisplion says below, I think that people who are gay or lesbian come in a variety of political hues (Perigo, for example, would take a strong libertarian stance on some of those issues). In my experience, gays and lesbians are a diverse bunch (look at the discord about some transgender issues within that community). Granted, they are *more* united about some issues of what they see as basic human rights, but they get a lot of support for those issues from the general public as well usually.
        
        Also, I’m not sure whether this view is widely held – “ban counseling for kids confused by homosexual issues”. I imagine that many would want counselling for such kids – or is it that you think that there is a specific sort of counselling that is banned? Or perhaps I’m misunderstanding what you are trying to say.
        
        My 2c worth, anyway.
        
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        June 30, 2021 9:04pm
    - Crisplion
      
      Legal homosexual sex and a ban on anti-gay discrimination are straightforwardly the right positions for a free and equal society. Also, why should gay people not be allowed to marry? I don’t think any religious organisation ought to be forced to condone or recognise it, but again, secular marriage for gay people is a perfectly reasonable and fair thing in an open society.
      
      The adoption thing is trickier, but I have little doubt that children are better off with two gay parents who love them in a stable relationship than in a single-mum household with a succession of violent and criminal ‘stepfathers’, which is by far a more common scenario. Let’s get our priorities straight. I’m not aware of any evidence that children who grow up under the care of gay couples are in any way the worse for it.
      
      Who cares about pride marches?
      
      I tend to agree with you about most of the rest, which involves the state overstepping its role. Homosexuals should have the same rights as everyone else, no less and no more.
      
      By the way, there are plenty of gay people who don’t much like the trans agenda either – they are aware that many young people are convinced that they ought to ‘transition’ when actually they’re just gay and perfectly fine as they are.
      
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      June 30, 2021 10:39am
      - alloytoo
        
        I venture that some aren’t even gay, just confused like every other teenager.
        
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        June 30, 2021 11:25am
      - Scott
        
        Crisplion – well thank you for your opinions. But they are opinions. How do you know that you are right?
        Without revelation from God, that is the Bible, it is all we have – our own opinions.
        For you it seems perfectly reasonable for example to have gay marriage and gay couples adopting an unrelated male child. For others of us it is perfectly unreasonable and indeed crazy and morally hazardous.
        
        Only God can tell us what is right. Without a transcendent basis of right and wrong, we just have our competing opinions.
        
        50 years ago your opinions would be seen by the majority of people as absolutely ludicrous. Only the God who made us can show us what is right and what is wrong. Without that we have nothing.
        
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        June 30, 2021 11:35am
      - Batman
        
        Alloy – well then they might be bisexual or some such, no problem there! They should be supported to be who they are and not told they’re confused or any particular thing. That includes being able to access professional assistance to talk about their feelings and instill the confidence to be themselves.
        
        Scott – that’s also your opinion. ‘God’ is a fictional character made up by ancient men in sandals. And if there’s one thing I know, it’s not to trust a man who wears sandals.
        
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        June 30, 2021 1:29pm
      - Crisplion
        
        Scott,
        
        I have an open mind about God. I can’t call myself an atheist although I’m not exactly a believer either. Even ‘agnostic’ doesn’t fit the bill. Anyhow, I’m still waiting for my revelation.
        
        My question for people such as yourself, who seem convinced that God has given you the unvarnished truth about existence and what is right and wrong, is how on earth (or in heaven) you can be so certain. I envy you that certainty on one level, but on another it seems a little arrogant. How can you be so sure that you are such a pristine channel for the word of God? What makes you so sure that the bible, written as it was by human hand, is a reliable source of divine revelation. It’s a marvelous document to be sure, full of mythopoetic wisdom. But the literal word of God? I just don’t think we can know that.
        
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        June 30, 2021 3:11pm
    - MCos
      
      ‘force “gay marriage” on society’
      
      Nobody has forced me into a gay marriage!
      
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      June 30, 2021 10:41am
      - Batman
        
        Oh but it’ll definitely happen Mcos! Just like how Obama forced everyone in America to have gay sharia weddings while worshipping Gaia!
        
        These irrational fears only tell on those posting them.
        
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        June 30, 2021 1:25pm
- Fidel Cashflow
  
  How ironic that in the England v Germany match, it is now the English who are behaving like members of a totalitarian society.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:32am
- Batman
  
  So basically Scott, you wanted to publish a fairly homophobic rant about gay people due to your irrational fear of them, and used the football as a topical segway.
  
  Gay people don’t care about you and aren’t coming for you. Maybe if you made some new friends you might find that out…
  
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  June 30, 2021 1:23pm
  - Cinematic
    
    In that case Batman the post won’t matter and your response was superfluous no?
    
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    June 30, 2021 2:12pm
  - Scott
    
    Batman – how can you be sure I have a phobia? Homosexuality is a sin according to the Bible. It is also perverse according to Western civilisation for two millennia. It’s only in the last 30 years that it has become fashionable to have a positive view of homosexuality.
    How can you be sure that you are right? Surely it is your opinion?
    
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    June 30, 2021 2:31pm
BAM

So out of the blue, Christopher Finlayson decides to do an interview with Stuff and put the boot into National.
Why?
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June 30, 2021 8:17am
- Tricati
  
  Because he’s a prat – pour & simple
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:41am
  - Positan
    
    No, Tricati – he’s more than that. His demeanour has always portrayed him as a nasty prat.
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:30am
    - doggone7
      
      Great graphics on here. Drag the centre line on the various angles to see the before and after views.
      
      https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/interactive-see-after-photos-florida-condo-building-collapse-n1272299
      
      This came to mind reading the Finlayson comments. It’s all a bit Jami-Lee Ross – hero to zero.
      
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      June 30, 2021 11:30am
      - Tall Man
        
        “hero to zero” , not at all.
        
        He is entitled to his opinion and many National supporters agree. He is also entitled to bleat to the media although I doubt he sought them out but I could be wrong.
        
        It may also be the opening salvo against the current executive but it may also be a bit of payback, the psychological profiling may have been directed at Muller. I think it may be the former and a few of the big guns have had enough and are demanding changes.
        
        While it ain’t great, isn’t it great to see former MPs having the courage to speak out when things aren’t as good as they could be so kudos to the National party for the discussion.
        
        Wouldn’t it be nice to see a few senior labour members and ex mps grow a pair of balls and speak out against the clusterfuck that we currently have posing as a government or is it a case of “fools for even bigger fools” ?
        
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        June 30, 2021 1:57pm
- MCos
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Hardly out of the blue.
  National have been a shambles over the last eighteen months or so. Dating back to the poor judgement Simon Bridges made in his approach to the pandemic. And we all know what happened after that.
  There’s nothing to be gained by pillorying Finlayson for pointing out a few home truths.
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:04am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Dating back to the poor judgement Simon Bridges made in his approach to the pandemic.?
    
    And where do you think we would be now if Bridges hadn’t publicised the fact that our front-line workers lacked proper PEP gear and our Quarantine and tracing methods were rubbish?
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:26am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      Funny also how pre-departure Covid tests are now an important part of the tool kit, when Judith was pushing for this BEFORE the election and even Saint Ash came out and said there was very little worth to the idea. Ashley knows upon which side his bread is buttered.
      Simon Bridges also pushed for true quarantine early, rather than trust & self-isolation, while NZers were rushing home and bringing Covid over here.
      I honestly believe National had worthwhile ideas, and would not accept the crap logistics or management on the border (still regular testing not happening, and not fully vaccinated on the front line). Labour still seems very reactive and almost lack-lustre when it comes to testing and vaccines. No sense of urgency detected when Chippie or the like is taking questions.
      
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      June 30, 2021 10:49am
  - Isobar
    
    I agree with this. If National want to be electable again – consider taking on some of the advice.
    
    If they want to sit on the opposition benches for a very long time – then continue to ignore the advice and pile on those offering it.
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:26am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Almost every criticism Bridges made of the Government’s Covid response has proved to be valid, and the Government has adopted many of the ideas suggested by Bridges, and more recently by Bishop and Reti. The FB pile-on against him was contrived and politically motivated.
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:36am
    - Yabster
      
      correct-MCos what poor judgement are you referring to?
      
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      June 30, 2021 10:12am
    - MCos
      
      I just had a look back at his Facebook comment.
      
      He complained because the the lockdown was extended a week and he was hammered.
      There were ~16,ooo comments. Hardly contrived.
      
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      June 30, 2021 10:48am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      I noticed on Twitter that Labour activists inevitably pop up on Seymour or Nat MPs feeds, and add snide and nasty responses. Then there are a lot of likes from their tribe of Followers, and it seems to bury supportive comments (which might be greater in number). I had to wonder if that is a tactic; mobilised to make sure their words are prominent, or just a foible of the way Twitter works around bringing posts to the top: in any case the same arseholes seem to appear quite often.
      
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      June 30, 2021 10:55am
    - curry4me
      
      Tony Stuart: Exactly. Before the CCP Virus lockdown; Simon was scoring hits, the economy was heading for a recession, and it looked like curtains for Labour. Recessions always result in the incumbent government losing. National should have kept their nerve.
      
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      June 30, 2021 5:22pm
  - lifesgood
    
    What utter rot, MCos
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:22am
    - MCos
      
      Suit yourself
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:33pm
- Colville
  
  Because he is sick of seeing Collins shooting National in the foot again and again?
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300345002/ardern-had-a-bad-week-but-collins-was-worse
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:13am
  - lifesgood
    
    Would you please explain exactly how Judith shot National in the foot. I completely missed that. Must have been distracted by Ardern’s absolute shocker of a week.
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:23am
    - curry4me
      
      lifesgood: Yea, I missed that too. Must have had my eyes closed.
      
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      June 30, 2021 5:23pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Not possible. Ardern has already breached the limit for NZ’s worst PM ever. She will be asked to hand over the keys and refund her pay eventually.
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:36am
Rich Prick

Wellington weather, according to Stuff it was going to be close to the end of the world as we know it. Today, meh. The typists at stuff are excitable children, probably best ignored.
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June 30, 2021 8:18am
- krazykiwi
  
  Agreed, although reading Stuff is more hazardous to ones health that would be walking around the south coast last night.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:20am
- Master Mariner
  
  Normal Southerly “buster”.
  Move on.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:46am
  - alwyn
    
    Would you have brought a ship into the harbour at the peak of the storm?
    Advice from the late Hector Gordon Robertson might be in order.
    
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    June 30, 2021 12:31pm
    - LauraNorda
      
      No, but the Captain of the Pacific Charger did try to do exactly the same in 1981 and failed. The same Captain went on to his next command, MV “Orient Treasury” which was lost at sea with all hands. A Drongo which should have been charged by the Maritime Dept with negligence.
      
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      June 30, 2021 1:25pm
      - alwyn
        
        The things one forgets.
        I had completely forgotten about that, even though I was living in Wellington at the time.
        I guess the difference as that I sailed across on the Picton ferry on the day after the Wahine sank and passed it lying on its side near Seatoun. That is very hard to forget.
        
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        June 30, 2021 2:07pm
- kowtow
  
  One wonders where on earth it makes any sense at all to occupy a property for residential purposes , at sea level .
  
  Same with building in flood plains , in bush prone to regular and intense fires , on slip prone hill sides , etc
  
  And then when the regular weather patterns/cycles result in an adverse event ( high tide combined with storm surge ) for occupier , the Media Pardy say it ‘s caused by climate change , when it’s not.
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:40am
- Happy1
  
  I can’t get to golf today because the sea is over the road. Don’t tell me it’s not the end of the world.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:10am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Does Greta know this? First signs of the World ending?
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:16am
- PeeJay
  
  I do love these stories every winter. It’s almost like it’s an annual occurrence or something?!?
  
  Heavy snow in the South Island in Winter? Wellington south cost battered by huge waves? OMG – how terribly exciting and unusual!
  
  This hasn’t happened eva! Except last year……and the year before that……erm…..climate change? OMG!
  
  Meanwhile anyone who is an adult with a memory longer than that of your standard goldfish sighs at the childish idiots in the media and gets on with their life!
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:11am
Maggie Pie

Smells fishy…..

https://twitter.com/NewshubNZ/status/1409947179909668867
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June 30, 2021 8:19am
- rangitoto
  
  Taxinda’s spin doctors will be claiming for a lot of overtime this week.
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:45am
Maggy Wassilieff

RNZ ‘s Susie Ferguson spends over 7 mins repeatedly asking Judith Collins about Todd Muller.

Judith Collins remains polite and repeats that Muller has requested privacy and that she,Collins, does not discuss her Caucus matters on air.

Repeatedly Judith Collins states that she is willing to discuss matters of concern to NZers such as Car tax, hate speech, RMA reforms, or the Vaccine roll-out.

But after 7minutes 17 seconds, Fergusson closes the interview and never ventures onto those topics of interest where Jacinda Ardern’s Government is performing abysmally.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018801886/it-s-up-to-caucus-whether-todd-muller-stays-judith-collins
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June 30, 2021 8:20am
- BAM
  
  Judith Collins remains polite
  
  That’s where she’s going wrong, sitting there, getting repeatedly, verbally punched in the face, makes you look weak, not strong.
  
  She’s got to fight back.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:29am
  - kowtow
    
    Recall there was a “spontaneous” Facebook campaign against Bridges’ so called aggressive , confrontational , combative style .
    
    I think the fall out from that episode has scared the pants off em. Or maybe their focus groups are telling em the sheep don’t like the attack style , I don’t know.
    
    There are still questions to be answered about the who what and why s of who was behind that campaign .
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:14am
    - BAM
      
      Ugh, the focus groups, I hate them.
      Judith Collins is who she is and either succeeds or fails because of that.
      
      Trying to make someone they’re not never works.
      
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      June 30, 2021 9:38am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Bullies don’t allow fight back. That makes them madder. When in the bull pen it helps to blind the bull before you cut its throat.
      
      Labour are smart with their hidden PR team but Labour are quietly killing themselves–all hui no doi. Watch the prices too: weekly grocery shopping for us up by 25% over the last year! (More building industry supplies going up again too.)
      
      Sometimes a critical point has to be reached before political change appears. National are planning policies and action but publication and discussion is denied by the media at this time.
      
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      June 30, 2021 10:48am
      - BAM
        
        What a load of utter shite, you live in the present and should act in the present.
        Trump didn’t get elected by being meek and subservient.
        
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        June 30, 2021 11:06am
  - Tomtoddy
    
    I agree BAM. She is a natural fighter, strong, able to challenge but you can see her minders all over her saying, “be nice”, “dont offend”.
    
    The consequence is that she looks ill at ease, she appears weak, she looks artificial.
    
    C’mon, Judith be yourself. We need you to sink your teeth into these over-rated, arrogant, leftie journos. You are not there to win the sopping wet left, you are there to represent middle NZ and those of us who have had a guts full of incompetence and communist inspired interference in our lives and businesses.
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:18am
    - Sacha
      
      Are you another Labour bot?
      
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      June 30, 2021 11:05am
    - septic skeptic
      
      I’ve seen a fair bit of Judith over recent years. My view is that the nickname “crusher” never reflected Judith’s core persona. She is something of a sheep in wolf’s clothing.
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:55pm
  - lifesgood
    
    And do you seriously think the msm wouldn’t kick hell out of Judith if she was aggressive? She can’t win, can she? It’s about time right leaning people got behind her instead of constantly carping. As I recall too many National voters moaned and moaned about both Bill English and Simon Bridges and look where we are now.
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:27am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Judith fighting back is such an “interview” is only making trouble for herself. The headlines if she did so I leave to your imagination.
    Judith’s time and platform will come.
    Labour are going to have to be yanked out of their bribery seat.
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:40am
    - alloytoo
      
      Judith needs to have her own recordings of every interview.
      
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      June 30, 2021 11:30am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    That is the main reason the old rascal and demagogue, Winston, has a place in my heart.
    He takes control and turns it around if he doesn’t like the cut of the journalists gib. He will question their intelligence, their value and even their parentage.
    Colins smirking and taking it all doesn’t really work, unless you are already on her side.
    Do try and Out-Kind the PriNZcess.
    She should tell them that Muller is not of national importance, like RMA, CCC, or Hate Speech, and ask them why journalists are so stupid that they chase some gotcha based on a topic de-jour rather than focusing on issues which affect NZers materially.
    
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    June 30, 2021 12:19pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  It would be interesting to find out what the Morning Report producers gave as the agenda for the interview when they contacted Collins’ media staff to book her in.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:29am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Judith Collins states in the Interview that she was asked to discuss the topics I listed…
    
    at about 6:15 in
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018801886/it-s-up-to-caucus-whether-todd-muller-stays-judith-collins
    
    So clearly Judith Collins was misled about the interview.
    
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    June 30, 2021 8:45am
    - Lance
      
      You don’t mean to say journo’s are trying to out-lie ‘St Jacinda of the Plague’ and her morally corrupt gang of inveterate liars?
      I wonder who will win?
      
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      June 30, 2021 9:10am
    - TWEEDSE
      
      I don’t listen to RNZ normally and after listening the hack Susie Ferguson’s hit job on Judith I won’t bother in the future. I am surprised Judith held her cool with Cindy sycophant Susie. To think my tax pays Susie’s salery. Can I have that part back please?
      
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      June 30, 2021 9:37am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    After Monday’s disaster the PM’s PR team would have been flat tack yesterday resetting this week’s agenda with the MSM political editors and sniffing out ANYTHING they could use to divert the the sheeples attention on Wednesday.
    
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    June 30, 2021 8:58am
    - tf78
      
      Finlayson and Mosque threats filled that gap very conveniently. They must have a bag of deflection effects in their offices.
      
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      June 30, 2021 10:50am
      - 70andstilllearning
        
        I’m starting to develop a theory here – conspiratorial of course.
        The PM ain’t bright eg. didn’t know difference between GDP & exchange rate. But is smart as in street/gutter terms and has a qual in PR.
        Was the TT outburst that created havoc real or “??” and hence….
        I’m watching for further “news” , posts and data….
        
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        June 30, 2021 4:57pm
- MCos
  
  I would suggest there is increasing public interest in the malaise gripping Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition.
  There’s only one person who is in a position to clear the air about the Muller sacking without themselves being next for the chop and that is Judith Collins.
  In the meantime I’m sure many many Nats wonder why Peter Goodfellow still clings on.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300345221/national-party-is-selfdestructing-former-minister-says?cid=app-iPad
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:40am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Why do Labour still cling on? The economy is only going to get worse and give them an awful time. They started the price climb but will be powerless to stop it. If they had any sense they would get out now and leave National to sort out their mess and pick up the opprobrium for the coming hardship in fixing it.
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:52am
    - Isobar
      
      Because, simply, the opposition is a shambles in no state to take over and govern.
      
      Until they sort out their business, Labour will continue to have pretty much free reign.
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:05pm
- Paulus
  
  Susi still waiting for her Wedding Invitation so will try anything.
  Isn’t she now included the the special media briefings by Ardern’s office on a Monday to be told what to say ad do.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:45am
  - kevn
    
    @Paulus… She may have heard that UK ginga folk singer will be performing at the wedding.
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:24am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      I find Sheeran so insipid and unremarkable.
      When he made a much-maligned cameo in Game of Thrones, it seems the producers added by way of apology to fans a conversation in a later series that said how ‘Ed’ with a ‘lovely voice’ was one of the Lannister men burnt by dragon fire, and he lost his face, and has no eyelids now.
      That detail and mental image almost made up for the hamster-faced twat appearing in the first place!
      (Can I express my glee, and my dislike of Ed Sheeran under Hate Speech laws? Or is he one of Cindy’s chums, and I might have a knock on the door at 3am?)
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:46pm
- Isobar
  
  Surely this sits with Collins though – she knew her actions would prompt this sort of coverage, but did it anyway. With the Muller situation, it could very easily been handled quietly and not made into a big deal (and got the same result). But thats just not Collins style, she likes the theatre of these things and wants to be feared.
  
  The problem is – her actions have meant that what otherwise would have been a good week for National – they have had some good hits on the govt has been completely overshadowed by her actions. Bridges, Bishop etc must be getting so over seeing all their hard work go to waste.
  
  This is Collins problem, time and time again she doesnt think and her actions overshadow all the otherwise good work her caucus are doing.
  
  She’s the leader now, but i just don’t think she has what it takes to do the job. Because she doesn’t think before she acts and she acts unilaterally, unfortunately usually damaging her own party more than any other.
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:34am
  - Sacha
    
    Uptick by mistake, ugh. I meant red.
    
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    June 30, 2021 11:09am
  - artemisia
    
    Really? That quiet approach you refer to would look exactly like a cover up. And we all know about those.
    
    Mr Muller was positioned to be Prime Minister, fell apart rather spectacularly, was dobbed in as a leaker by a fellow MP and resigned. How could that be handled quietly?
    
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    June 30, 2021 12:54pm
    - Isobar
      
      Because this was a rather low level office, hell Collins herself committed worse under Key.
      
      I very much doubt this would look like a cover up, Muller could have easily been requested to resign in exchange for a plum diplomatic posting or something when the nats are next in power. Its not hard. Key was able to manage this still easily and under the radar.
      
      Why turn it into a drama when it doesnt need to be.
      
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      June 30, 2021 2:06pm
Tall Man

It seems ex minister Chris Finlayson has had enough and is calling for the National party to return to it’s conservative roots and select more suitable candidates.

Can someone enlighten me as to how a gay pro treaty settlement lawyer can be considered “conservative” …. Does he dislike salads or avocado or something?
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June 30, 2021 8:22am
- fernglas
  
  Have you ever met him? He’s so dry he has a dustbin rather than a urinal in his office.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:39am
  - Swifty
    
    Heh
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:23am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I’ve met him several times, and he is a delightful bloke. He has a razor sharp wit, and was a brilliant debater. He told me once that he hated staying away from Wellington on a Saturday night, because he had made a commitment to his elderly father to take him to Mass every Sunday morning.
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:56am
  - Jack5
    
    Chris Finlayson was a list MP, after failing in his attempt to win the Mana electorate in 2005. I’m not sure how much he knows about winning political tactics.
    
    On Kiwiblog we’ve highlightedFinlayson’s negotiation (as a lawyer) of Ngai Tahu’s sweetheart treaty settlement, and at the fact that he was in Cabinet when the tribe’s deal was topped up.
    
    However, Finlayson has at least one strong point: he believes in free speech. Here is Finlayson in Parliament on 8 August 2018 talking about Jacindarella’s comments on Massey University shutting out Don Brash:
    
    But I want to commend the Prime Minister for her statement recently, condemning the overreaction by the vice-chancellor of Massey to the speech that was to be given by Dr Brash, because what she said was quite right. I think it behoves every party in this Parliament to make sure that the contagion which has spread to United States universities and has shut down the ability of people to express an opinion on a subject doesn’t extend to New Zealand.
    
    I’ve read the speech of Dr Brash, which appeared in the New Zealand Herald yesterday. Look, for a person who’s a paid-up and founding member of Hobson’s Pledge, it didn’t seem to me to be too extreme. He had a go at me over Treaty settlements, but he’s been having a go at me over Treaty settlements since 2008. But I’d much rather that people like Dr Brash got out there and said, in the politics club at Massey and other such places, what they think on a variety of issues, rather than have the vice-chancellor of Massey University shut down the free exchange of ideas.
    
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    June 30, 2021 10:58am
    - Steve Todd
      
      Chris Finlayson was a list MP, after failing in his attempt to win the Mana electorate in 2005.
      
      And then, subsequently, failing in four successive attempts to take Rongotai off Annette King.
      
      He is proof of KevO’Brien’s oft-repeated lie, though, that List MPs are not tested in Electorate contests.
      
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      June 30, 2021 1:51pm
      - alwyn
        
        I can’t remember where I read the remark but I once saw something that claimed that if Finlayson was so lacking in enthusiasm for being an electorate MP he would have been the first person demanding a recount if he had won.
        
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        June 30, 2021 2:15pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        alwyn: I hadn’t heard that one.
        
        It’s hard for a National candidate to win a safe Labour seat. I would emphasise, however, that at least he was truly tested in the fires of Electorate competition — and let us not forget that Steven Joyce never faced the voters — on five separate occasions, compared to Kev’s single time.
        
        Yet Kev has the audacity to suggest that List MPs, like Chris Findlayson was (who, almost always, are unsuccessful Electorate candidates), are somehow of lesser worth than those lucky enough to win their seats (in FPP contests, where there can only be one winner)!
        
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        June 30, 2021 3:34pm
- Swifty
  
  That’s silly TM, you’re falling into a stereotype trap there.
  
  As but one of many examples I could give you I go to my current barber (the Gay Blade we call him) at least as much for the fun I get hearing him blast Ardern each time I go.
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:23am
  - Tall Man
    
    Not my point Swifty but that’s ok.
    
    Is it possible to be a conservative in NZ today if you are both gay and pro treaty?
    
    I think not but then I’m not gay or conservative.
    
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    June 30, 2021 11:16am
    - Swifty
      
      There’s plenty of gay conservatives in NZ my dear fellow.
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:09pm
      - Batman
        
        Quite so, swifty.
        
        Conservatives should support equal rights for gay folks as a matter of course. Equal in the eyes of the law and freedom to live their lives as they need to.
        
        Anyone else is not a conservative but a religious statist. Simple as that.
        
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        June 30, 2021 1:57pm
- Paulus
  
  Perhaps more Gay Candidates.
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:56am
- Gravelroad
  
  With respect Tall Man, if your comments here are reflective of general National Party thinking at any level, then it is no wonder they are in strife.
  Being gay is no indication of not having a conservative outlook just as being of some other sexual orientation does not signify rampant liberalism.
  The ongoing focus on Treaty issues is a fact of life here, whether people like it or not – and a lot of voters do seem to like it……
  There is little doubt that the Labour lot is much more attuned to “reading the room” and exploiting voter expectations than is National at the moment.
  Yes, you can say that the leftist media is biased and paid for and Labour has certainly invested heavily in a highly successful, outward looking propaganda PR strategy which has worked handsomely for them.
  National just does not seem to be able to stop dwelling on a personalised, inward looking focus on MP’s.
  Maybe time to stop thinking about them and start engaging with us out here.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:13am
  - Tall Man
    
    Again, point missed entirely I think.
    
    Maybe your definition of conservative includes being gay and pro treaty settlements that are based on a fiction but mine does not.
    
    If you think “reading the room” means that you blindly use welfare to shore up your support and that is still a conservative approach then we have differing measures I think.
    
    Chris Findlayson suggested National reconnect with their conservative roots. My thoughts are that he would never been seen as a conservative but as a more liberal politician that that which National would be expected to select.
    
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    June 30, 2021 11:20am
    - chukar
      
      Tallman,
      I think it was you that missed the point.
      National need to develop principles and “start engaging with us out here”.
      Who can deny that?
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:47pm
      - Tall Man
        
        I realise that and that was Chris Finlayson’s point, not mine 😉
        
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        June 30, 2021 2:26pm
    - MCos
      
      Kia ora, Tall Man,
      You are confusing liberal as used by Americans with the true meaning of the word.
      “relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise”
      In that sense NZ is a liberal society.
      
      The ‘promotes individual rights’ aspect is interesting because these various levels of lockdown is the opposite & some might argue is a reason why the US has had such a high death toll from covid-19 whereas more compliant societies such as our haven’t.
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:55pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Possibly I am but everyone missed my point.
        
        Chris Finlayson would hardly be classified as having a conservative bent, especially when his stance and actions on the treaty negotiations are taken into account. Also, he criticises the “leaking” yet has spoken more than once to the media about the issues within the party then states he is a loyal member. Is that the actions of a loyal member of a supposedly conservative party?
        
        Anyway, for the intellectually challenged, my point was humour or did the “salad/avocado hating” fool you?
        
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        June 30, 2021 2:24pm
      - fernglas
        
        Y
        
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        June 30, 2021 3:36pm
MCos

Almost exactly twenty years after after America invaded Afghanistan they will be leaving again and listening to the news the country will quickly revert back to the previous situation.
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June 30, 2021 8:26am
- Scott
  
  MCos – sad but necessary in my opinion. What would you like them to do? Stay in Afghanistan for another 20 years? What possible good are they doing now but uniting fiercely parochial tribal leaders against the American invaders.
  
  America is not serving its own interests by sending its sons to die in a foreign war that they have no intention of winning.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:46am
  - MCos
    
    “What would you like them to do?”
    In retrospect they should never have gone there in the first place, but how were we supposed to know that with all the dodgy propaganda flying round at the time?
    As it turned out one gets the impression they could have left at any time and the result would be the same.
    I wonder what the Afghans think of the situation?
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:49am
- Pharmachick
  
  What do the English, Russians, French and Americans haven common… None of them have been able to win Afghanistan. Biden is right, time to leave.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:31am
  - oldfella
    
    Pharma, the US troop withdrawal may not be as comprehensive as first proposed. I wonder why?
    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/29/politics/afghanistan-accelerated-us-troop-pullout/index.html
    
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    June 30, 2021 11:05am
    - oldfella
      
      Rudyard Kipling had no illusions about what faced the young men of his day, sent off to fight in that far away hell hole.
      When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
      And the women come out to cut up what remains,
      Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
      An’ go to your Gawd like a soldier.
      https://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/young_british_soldier.html
      
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      June 30, 2021 11:12am
      - Pharmachick
        
        Thank you! I love Kipling… I give/gave really good illustrated copies of The Jungle Book to my nieces and nephews and various friends’ kids when they’re old enough to enjoy (and The Wind in the Willows).
        
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        June 30, 2021 12:30pm
  - Tall Man
    
    This is the beginning of the end of a process that was started by Donald Trump.
    
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    June 30, 2021 11:14am
    - MCos
      
      Obama started the process in 2014.
      Numbers went from 68,000 to under 10,000 by the time he left himself.
      
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      June 30, 2021 1:05pm
  - Paulus
    
    It was Trumps decision to pull out not Bidens.
    
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    June 30, 2021 1:55pm
    - Batman
      
      As you will know from when Trump came into office, it is up to each commander in chief to make new decisions around the strategy, timing, nature and scale of any operation or withdrawal.
      
      So yes but the decision to actually leave is way more complex. Otherwise you’d have to say it was Obama as he started the overall pull back from the middle east. Trump certainly accelerated it in his own unique way.
      
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      June 30, 2021 3:02pm
JibberJabber

Thomas Sowell

The political left has never understood that, if you give the government enough power to create “social justice,” you have given it enough power to create despotism. Millions of people around the world have paid with their lives for overlooking that simple fact.
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June 30, 2021 8:30am
- Cobolt24
  
  While we’re on the subject, happy 91st birthday to Thomas Sowell!
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:58pm
BananaLlama

Great round of morning headlines.
I honestly despair, ACT doing all of the heavy lifting only for the clown car to turn up and start honking their horns.
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June 30, 2021 8:37am
Tall Man

First part of email from …

“Kia ora XXX

Welcome to Aotearoa New Zealand:

New Zealand has been successful with its COVID-19 elimination strategy to date and we’re working hard to keep it that way.

You are being contacted as you have arrived from a quarantine free travel area with a recent COVID-19 case (or cases).”

Crap coupled with a bit of electioneering for ardern.
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June 30, 2021 8:40am
KevO'Brien

‘Scary’ Boston Dynamics dance video divides internet as robo-dogs celebrate Hyundai acquisition
These critters can be war machines too.
https://www.rt.com/news/527913-scary-boston-dynamics-dance-hyundai/
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June 30, 2021 8:42am
- Lance
  
  Looks impressive but is choreographed puppetry in terms of real AI.
  Nice balance and loop control but AI… methinks not.
  They are still about as smart as cockroaches
  I am not saying it won’t happen one day, it’s just we are not there yet, not even close
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:18am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s past nice. Programming on that scale of ability shows the potential of these gadgets as war machines.
    There are views of others too by clicking further on the site.
    Note also, Huawei, a Chinese company, has purchased the technology from a USA one which came out of MIT.
    
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    June 30, 2021 3:21pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  AI + drones is scary as hell
  https://youtu.be/HipTO_7mUOw
  AI is developing so fast that something close to this tech is in all likelihood nearing deployment or sitting secretly warehouses in China Russia and USA even now – or will be within a couple of years.
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:22am
Master Mariner

Thecquestion that needs to be explained is.
How do they asses in doing there Risk Assesment whick leads to lockdowns and shutting down/ opening up bubbles.
I mean seriously how hard would it be.?
Least population could monitor and understand further responses in advance.
Like everything with this crowd they seem to be adverse to any stsatistics and monitoring and recording.
Here in lays the problem.
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June 30, 2021 8:47am
artemisia

Time mag does a newsletter ‘The D.C. Brief’.

Yesterday’s started out looking weirdly familiar –

At the start of Barack Obama’s presidency, I came to know a routine all too well. President Obama or his top aides would seek to dismiss a reporter’s question about the news of the day—be it attempts to revive the struggling economy after the 2008 collapse, the tricky politics of a Wall Street bailout or the efforts to keep American automakers’ assembly lines roaring—by reminding everyone just how bad things were when the Obamas moved into the White House. It wasn’t always explicit, but the message was clear: they were cleaning up the mess left behind by President George W. Bush after eight turbulent years.
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June 30, 2021 8:50am
I remember when

The discussion yesterday about the 20 Christchurch girls being raped reminded me of a local story I heard, and presume is factual.
At a local high school they have a clinic on Monday mornings to distribute the ‘morning after pill.’
Information is that many of them do not know whether they had sex or not during the weekend.
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June 30, 2021 8:59am
- Tall Man
  
  I know a certain polytech has a similar issue.
  
  Alcohol, drugs and ignorance are often the reasons being unaware.
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:38am
- tf78
  
  Irw – you’d think with sex education being drummed into these kids from almost primary school age they would know exactly what they’re doing. Too many young girls crying wolf if you ask me.
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:50am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    They may have sex education, but few of them will have had much practice with alcohol, I warrant.
    
    Seemed to be a standard technique for some chaps when I was a kiddy winkle to get your “girlfriend” drunk as a skunk and screw her….
    
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    June 30, 2021 11:56am
    - alex Masterley
      
      My nieces, both early 20’s, are very good at getting pissed.
      It does worry me, and I think their mother. but try and tell them anything..
      
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      June 30, 2021 1:55pm
Ruahine

Cathie writing more very good comment regarding the Gov’ts collective stupidity.
https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/
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June 30, 2021 9:04am
Yvette

As the country prepares to debate proposed hate speech reforms, Al Noor Mosque is being targeted with fresh threats of violence.
Federation of Islamic Associations chair Abdur Razzaq is responsible for one of the reports after he drew police attention to an offensive image on the online forum 4chan.
The image is a selfie of a masked man posing in a car parked outside Al Noor Mosque, with accompanying comments that threatened violence to those inside. [1]

Meanwhile on March 04 2020 –
A teenager has been arrested in a police raid relating to a terror threat outside Christchurch’s Al Noor mosque.
The threat was issued on Sunday night, about two weeks before the anniversary of March 15, on an encrypted messaging app, accompanied by a photo of a masked man sitting in a car outside the mosque. [2]

One supposes the earlier March 2020 incident was adequately resolved without the proposed new “hate speech” laws, so why exactly can anyone caught in the current incident (one of three) not be dealt with in the same way? – without laws that relate to “speech that intentionally incites hatred on the basis of sex, marital status, religious belief, ethical belief (meaning the lack of a religious belief), colour, race, ethnic or national origins, disability, age, political opinion, employment status, family status, or sexual orientation.”?

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/06/al-noor-mosque-targeted-with-fresh-threats-of-violence-as-new-zealand-prepares-to-debate-new-hate-speech-laws.html
[2] https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119999612/man-arrested-after-al-noor-mosque-terror-threat-raid
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June 30, 2021 9:05am
surfing

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/nz-risks-giving-china-coercive-power-over-economy-us-general/ar-AALALcV?li=BBqdg4K

But, the USA is not exactly giving us free trade agreements, so how is a tiny nation on the outer edge of the world supposed to eek out a living? The world in general seems terrified the NZ farmers will put their own farmers out of business.

As for Australia. China still desperately need Australian iron to build their cities and war machine. Australia certainly have China by the nads!!!

I think we do need to move away from China, but, other nations are going to have to come to the party, as we stand by them in war they have to stand by us in trade.
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June 30, 2021 9:06am
- rockape
  
  Used to stand by them in war. What exactly do we have to. Offer now? A few trainers, a few hardly armed boats ?
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:02am
Benedict Yu

Last night I went to book a rental car with the company I have always used. And of course they have converted all the car rental pickups to Maori. So I get this..

Wellington Airport / Te Whanganui-a-Tara

I googled the Maori term and it means Wellington Harbour. I don’t think Maori had name for airports.

So I click on it to make the booking and get an error “pickup location not open during your selected hours”. WTF it is 0900 on a weekday.

Give up. Choose a different company.

So my question for the company… How many customers did you gain by doing this thing? How many did you lose?

OK for me it was the combination of the change and the website actually not working. I’m not going to use a website with a highly distracting layout and which is unreliable.
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June 30, 2021 9:14am
- Clyde
  
  Hope you gave this message to your original company. Bet they don’t read KB if they changed their website to use words that most NZ’ers don’t understand – or WANT to understand.
  
  Better still – why don’t we all send messages to these companies following similar woke trends and tell them they are no longer having our business?
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:28am
- rockape
  
  Just imagine how much worse it would be if you were a tourist with limited grasp of the English language!
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:00am
- mandk
  
  Māori of old had a rough idea of airports. According to oral tradition (the same as recorded history nowadays), Māori invented human flight about 400 years before Pākeha appeared?
  
  The legendary hunter, Te Harikoa Paowa Manawa, was able to use mystical powers to fly higher and faster than the kārearea. This gave him the ability to hunt moa easily and feed his entire hapū. He was gifted this ability by Ranginui, after he saved Ranginui’s wife from a taniwha.
  
  To help Te Harikoa Paowa Manawa land safely, his hapū cleared an area of ground that acquired whenua tapu status. The legend has it that this whenua was near what today is Paraparaumu.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:12am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Nice.
    You can probably get a grant of >$300,000 to flesh that empowering insight out into a Phd.
    I see great financial promise in such satire.
    
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    June 30, 2021 1:30pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Nonsense. Maori spirits can bunk off.
    
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    June 30, 2021 3:44pm
- peterwn
  
  Had you selected your pickup time when you got the ‘not open’ message? The time might be initialised at midnight. Once a pickup time is specified this message would generally disappear (except town depots generally have more limited hours than airport depots). It would be better it they initialised the pickup time to the current time.
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:52am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    What?
    
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    June 30, 2021 1:54pm
Happychappy

This is only a headline as the story is under paywall.
Kate Macnamara : does adding camera’s to fishing boats warrant emergency Covid funding ?
A funny thing happened when David Parker, Minister of Oceans and Fisheries wanted a fast $26.6 million to put camera’s on Commercial Fishing boats.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/kate-macnamara-does-adding-cameras-to-fishing-boats-really-warrant-emergency-covid-funding/LZPAHMBS22HWHWVRMMT5QZD2JE/
If this is the case you would have to wonder why he is Attorney General in this Labour Government because honesty should have a say in who has the Attorney General Folder and it appears David Parker is not squeaky clean , you shouldn’t use funds needed to be their for and in case their is another outbreak of COVID-19, it’s not a slush fund for Labours agenda and is not being honest with the public of New Zealand.
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June 30, 2021 9:35am
Maggy Wassilieff

So how is the Government doing in preventing more cyber attacks and release of sensitive personal information?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018801821/substantial-waikato-dhb-data-released-on-dark-web

If you read/view the Urgent debate on the matter held yesterday in Parliament, you wouldn’t have much faith that the Minister in charge of Cybersecurity – Andrew Little knows what is required to prevent further attacks.

By contrast, Melissa Lee (N) and Brooke van Velden (Act) and Dr Reti (N) seem pretty informed.

https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20210629_20210629_20
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June 30, 2021 9:38am
I remember when

The CO2 total at Mauna Loa Observatory in May 2021 showed an increase of 1.82 ppm on May 2020.
Since 1950 the CO2 ppm has grown from 310 to 419 or 1.35 times.
During the same period the world’s population has increased from 2.556 billion to over 7.795 in 2020.
An increase of 3.05 times.
I haven’t heard about the increase only being 1.82ppm so the vegetation at Mauna Loa must be the reason.
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June 30, 2021 9:38am
Akarak

‘High rise apartments coming to Auckland’s traditional suburbs under new Government edict’
– NZ Herald, 28 Jun, 2021
Under this new edict developers will be able to demolish homes and build apartment blocks. The biggest impact will be on suburbs close to the metropolitan areas, which are largely zoned for single houses, such as Remuera, Mt Albert, Sandringham and Milford.
MORE BORROWED ON-THE-HOOF POLICY FROM SOCIALIST AMERICA!
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/06/29/democrat-reconciliation-package-to-federalize-local-zoning-laws-displace-single-family-homes-in-suburbs/
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June 30, 2021 10:01am
Inandout

Look at each company’s open hours and then choose where their pick up offices are located. We used one company in Christchurch and had to wait 40 minutes for the shuttle van to arrive. Then in Queenstown their office was right outside the terminal. Also breakdown assistance from some companies is abysmal and yes even Corollas have mechanical problems or instrument panel alarms.
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June 30, 2021 10:14am
cmm

Oh bugger here comes KiwiWater!

The taniwha is going to make a killing.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300345516/water-services-of-67-councils-to-be-amalgamated-into-4-water-entities-in-massive-shakeup
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June 30, 2021 10:34am
- Yabster
  
  Part of Mahutas speech- Maorification of water -not surprising is it? Note “Guided by a Maori Advisory Group”
  
  Pou tuarua: Establishment of Taumata Arowai
  • The second pou of our water reform agenda has been to create a
  new, dedicated water services regulator, called Taumata Arowai, to
  monitor and enforce the entire drinking water system.
  • Taumata Arowai will also play a role in improving environmental
  outcomes for freshwater and “shine a light” on the performance of our
  three waters systems.
  • In carrying out its remit, Taumata Arowai will be guided by a Māori
  Advisory Group.
  • This will help guide the organisation on Māori interests and
  knowledge, and how to give effect to Te Mana o Te Wai, mātauranga
  Māori and tikanga Māori to be exercised.
  • Bill Bayfield, Establishment Chief Executive of Taumata Arowai is
  here and will shortly outline in more detail the organisation’s role.
  
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  June 30, 2021 11:06am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  So Whangarei DC has told Mahuta to piss off, for good reason given, among other things, there is an effective 3 waters infrastructure in the district which is not overly debt burdened.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/northern-advocate/news/three-waters-governments-northland-restructuring-plans-in-disarray-as-whangarei-opts-out/RFA37VOSR7DLEL6C3XEWJD5L7U/
  
  From the stuff link:
  “Recently, Mahuta’s position has hardened as she has refused to rule-out forcing councils into the reforms.
  The modelling of household bills released on Wednesday shows Mahuta is still keen to get councils to volunteer for reform, but there’s still a slim chance Mahuta may have to be more forceful with stragglers.”
  
  Two majors here:
  1) From the new “dashboard” today average household bill FY21 for WDC is $1860. Adding up my average household costs for supply, sewage, and NRC components (plus an estimate for storm water which is buried in the general rate) best I can get to is ~$1400.
  For the “new” setup the cost would be $800 which I suggest is not possible! So I’m calling BS on the dashboard as more DIA manipulated misinformation designed to con the sheeple.
  2) “Mahuta may have to be more forceful with stragglers” – slim chance? BS again – this will be like separatist wards legislation under urgency all over again.
  
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  June 30, 2021 12:06pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    PS: I looked at the FNDC dashboard only to discover that my current 3 w’s cost are about 1/2 of what I actually pay.
    Meh
    
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    June 30, 2021 12:34pm
  - cmm
    
    Quite.
    
    There is no chance it is going to cost less.
    
    We’re adding a whole lot more broreaucracy and interference. We’re going to be adding a bunch more rebranding. We’re going to see subsidies for Those That Feel They’re Too Special To Pay.
    
    All that will have to be paid for by the existing rate payers.
    
    The goals are not to reduce costs. That flies against the nature of these people.
    
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    June 30, 2021 12:39pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      See my second comment – it’s all absolute crap 🙂
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:42pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      So Auckland is going to cross subsidise the rest of the Northern entity – yeah right – hasn’t happened with any of the the other regional initiatives that have occurred.
      
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      June 30, 2021 12:54pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The new water coys are being lined up to be 50% Maori controlled.
      We would be fools to fall for that trick. Maori know what they are doing but we will not let their Maui spirit get away with it.
      
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      June 30, 2021 3:39pm
- Clyde
  
  Next on the bar-coded womble’s list is the restructuring of local government. Basis will be that if Councils have had a third of their responsibilities taken off them, then they will have less to do and so should be amalgamated. There is a “conversation” going on about this at present.
  
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  June 30, 2021 1:28pm
Lance

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

According to debate in the UN it’s Israel’s fault that Palestinian men beat their wives.

Dem Joos.. I dunno

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzyH1Pq3bR4
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June 30, 2021 10:39am
Maggy Wassilieff

Water reforms on the way…

The 4 new entities seem to be conveniently arranged for privatisation.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300345516/water-services-of-67-councils-to-be-amalgamated-into-4-water-entities-in-massive-shakeup

Some groups have been eyeing up our water utilities for decades.
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June 30, 2021 10:39am
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, same people who own all Wilsons carparks?
  
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  June 30, 2021 10:53am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The Kwok family?
    
    Probably not…more likely to be one of the Water companies already operating in PRC.
    https://apac.cib.natixis.com/m-a-pulse-in-apac-articles/focus-on/articles/china-s-water-industry-is-still-attractive-with-strong-fundamentals
    
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    June 30, 2021 1:55pm
Rusty

So with these new hate speech laws does that mean for example if someone spreads hatred and violent speech towards Christchurch mosque killer Brenton Tarrant that person can be imprisoned or fined?

What about any other criminal who deems hate speech against them, can they use this law against that perpetrator?

Jacinda will opening up a “Pandora’s box” if this new law is passed.

Any person could interpret a insult or criticism against them as hate /violent speech and go to the authorities demanding action be taken against that perpetrator.

Do we want to live in a society like that — isn’t their already laws in place for public slander and defamation of character as a avenue for people to approach?

We know what this law is really about — people using free speech to speak out against the govt and their policies.

Its an old Marxist/ Socialist trick the govt is implementing.
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June 30, 2021 10:52am
Maggy Wassilieff

Some folks in the Climate-change alarmist world believe that coral bleaching is a recent phenomenon..

seems they have overlooked some earlier observations and images of Coral bleaching.

https://km.dmcr.go.th/ckeditor/upload/files/Research%20Bulletin/FullpaperPMBC/06Coral_bleaching_recorded_durin.pdf
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June 30, 2021 10:56am
- cmm
  
  I would not be surprised if differing UV levels due to sun spot activity also plays a role.
  
  The Unwashed seem to think that nature is static and only man made factors cause change. This is of course nonsense. There are natural changes and cycles in everything. Without these cycles of stressors, evolution would have a hard time working.
  
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  June 30, 2021 11:30am
- oldfella
  
  Maggy, so coral bleaching was first observed 150 years ago?
  Meh, why let inconvenient facts get in the way of climate change hysteria.
  That’s like trusting the science. 😉
  
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  June 30, 2021 11:31am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Joanne Nova reports it too with a lithograph from 1862 produced with help from a diving bell.
  Bleached coral plainly shown.
  https://joannenova.com.au/2021/06/corals-bleached-in-1862-by-all-the-cars-and-coal-plants-that-didnt-exist/
  
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  June 30, 2021 3:35pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING….

Feared ginga jihadi declares fatwa on fitness exercising.

https://twitter.com/_Islamicat/status/1408812224936882183
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June 30, 2021 10:56am
lilman

Was looking for something to watch last night and came across the Sunday programme late.
Was on the CH-CH EX-Mayor Bob Parker.
It was very well done, I enjoyed it.
It made me feel like I need to do more,a great example of a well deserved Knighthood.

Hope he is well rested and aware of his legacy in a City that needed leadership.
I am grateful and hopeful that he gets his battle of dealing with a stroke to a point where he and his wife can bask in their Communities appreciation.
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June 30, 2021 11:02am
- oldfella
  
  lilman, a very moving story on ‘Sunday’.
  I’m sure at some stage someone will propose erecting a statue of Bob Parker. IMHO, it would be well deserved.
  And as soon as it was up, haters would rush to tear it down.
  
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  June 30, 2021 11:24am
  - Paulus
    
    No way will Labour allow any but a Labour or Taniwha statue in Christchurch.
    
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    June 30, 2021 2:09pm
Waipuk

If Labour wins the next election do you think, at the pace Labour are pushing through change, there will be any further elections?
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June 30, 2021 11:04am
- krazykiwi
  
  Elections? Neofeudalism is the future of sleepwalking voters who still believe we have a fully-functioning, fit-for-purpose democracy.
  
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  June 30, 2021 11:42am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  They are terribly disruptive to the smooth running of the place, don’t you think?
  
  So much easier to have a leader for life like those lucky folks in N.Korea, PRC, Russia, Iran, Cuba, Bahrain, S.Sudan, etc.
  
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  June 30, 2021 11:42am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Waipuk – what makes you think there is going to be another election 🙂
  
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  June 30, 2021 12:28pm
oldfella

For those of us who suspect the world is going just a tiny bit crazy… it is!
Man Crowned Miss Nevada USA Because Men Are Apparently Better Women Than Real Women
Apparently, in order to be sufficiently woke, one must believe that men are better at being women than real women.
That’s certainly the message being sent by the Miss Nevada USA pageant after 27-year-old Kataluna Enriquez was crowned Miss Nevada USA, and thus will compete for the Miss USA title later this year. Enriquez is a man who identifies as a woman. He competed against 21 women to win the title.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2021/06/29/man-crowned-miss-nevada-usa-because-men-are-apparently-better-women-than-real-women-n1458142
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June 30, 2021 11:18am
- mandk
  
  Yeah, I bet ‘Ms” Enriquez won because she could piss further than any of ‘her’ rivals.
  
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  June 30, 2021 12:10pm
Yvette

Is Collins not as smart as she could be? –
From yesterday’s Hansard – Question No. 2—Prime Minister
2. Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by all of her Government’s statements and actions?

Don’t waste your time reading the following reply by Ardern, as its length is the point, not what it says –

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): Yes, and I include in that our response to COVID-19, that includes a swift move to alert level 2 for the Wellington region and responsive contact testing and tracing. With over 12,000 negative tests in the greater Wellington region, and successive days of negative waste-water tests across various sites, we have a level of assurance that allows Wellington to return to alert level 1 this evening. We ask, however, that people continue to stay home and get a test if they have cold- or flu-like symptoms, and this remains critical to our ongoing vigilance against COVID. I also stand by our decisions to move swiftly to pause quarantine-free travel with Australia over the weekend, in response to increasing cases across a number of Australian states. And I also stand by this Government’s decision to deliver the Pfizer vaccine, with over a million doses administered to date. COVID-19 remains the most significant risk to New Zealand. This Government will continue to make the prompt decisions needed to keep our country safe.

Hon Judith Collins: What is her definition of “hate speech”?

Is it not time the Opposition gives up on the supposed tactic of asking a “surprise” question without the pre-notice of Questions indicating what the question will be. It allows Ardern to take “command in the exchange” and present whatever propaganda she wishes, and is surely just a fucking waste of time that suggests Collins does not have control of the exchange she started.
In fact one wonders why the Speaker did not help Arden out by disqualifying Collin’s second question, since her first was about “Government’s statements and actions” and the second, real question, was “her definition”.
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June 30, 2021 11:19am
- mandk
  
  You have highlighted a problem with the rules surrounding PQs in NZ. The questions have to be precise and to the point, but the answers can largely ignore the question and can be used as an opportunity for grandstanding. The rules do not allow Minsters to be properly held to account.
  
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  June 30, 2021 12:08pm
  - Yvette
    
    Mandk, your comment “an opportunity for grandstanding” leads to my remark being more succinct, like –
    Why does Collins ask questions that allow the Prime Minister to make a Parliamentary Statement on any topic she wishes to select?
    
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    June 30, 2021 12:45pm
    - mandk
      
      I have puzzled over that question myself, and I have suggested here on KB that perhaps the Nats should refrain from asking Ardern any questions on the grounds that she never answers them and, instead, uses the opportunity to score points.
      
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      June 30, 2021 1:09pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Because, in the short term, few people have any knowledge of what the PM raves about with her first answer.
        
        However, as it goes on record, it can be checked at a later date… to see exactly if her Government’s “achievements” achieved anything.
        
        The battle is not fought and won at Question time.
        
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        June 30, 2021 2:01pm
  - doggone7
    
    The questions have to be precise. So Ms Collins asks Ms Ardern if she “stands by her policies and statements.”
    
    Ardern says, “Yes” and provides an example.
    
    What’s wrong with that?
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:46pm
- MCos
  
  Unfortunately for National, Question Time is not Judith Collins’ strong suit.
  In the UK the PM has his own QT. I read Tony Blair’s autobiography is which he said he dreaded this part of the job. I doubt if any of our recent PMs would have had that sense of foreboding.
  
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  June 30, 2021 4:22pm
oldfella

Did Oz get this idea from us? /s
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/abc-s-7-30-to-recognise-indigenous-place-names-in-programming-20210604-p57y6f.html
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June 30, 2021 11:27am
Tauhei Notts

There are some good commentators on this site and I want one of them to give us a succinct summary of Mahuta’s proposals. Such a summary is to be written in English without any French or any references to any other language. English, alone.
I have tried to read what has been written and it is beyond my level of comprehension.
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June 30, 2021 11:39am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Are you paying?
  
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  June 30, 2021 3:45pm
I remember when

Djokovic wins French Open.
Wimbledon on at the present time.
ASB in January 2022 (over six months away) cancelled.
Our luck in eliminating covid strikes again.
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June 30, 2021 12:01pm
- Cinematic
  
  Wembley was pretty full too.
  
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  June 30, 2021 1:23pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  ASB Classic – ASB Showgrounds in liquidation, any connection?
  
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  June 30, 2021 6:00pm
I remember when

TV3 News 11.30am:
Australia Child Care centre promotes asking for a child’s consent before changing their nappies.
Problems in Education system occur even earlier than we thought.
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June 30, 2021 12:06pm
Swifty

[appreciate the joke but such racial stereotyping is not permitted. Perhaps try posting the link again without smearing religious communities – Mod]
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June 30, 2021 12:47pm
- Swifty
  
  Fair enough.
  
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  June 30, 2021 1:02pm
  - I remember when
    
    I think that might qualify as racial stereotyping.
    
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    June 30, 2021 1:42pm
    - Swifty
      
      How so?
      
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      June 30, 2021 1:49pm
      - Tall Man
        
        “Fair” ……
        
        You’re getting a bit slow there Swifty…..
        
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        June 30, 2021 8:30pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

‘Jill Biden appears on cover of VOGUE’

https://twitter.com/LivePDDave1/status/1410009339469959170

LOL!!
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June 30, 2021 1:00pm
In Vino Veritas

Tick tock:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/manhattan-da-wont-charge-donald-trump-with-any-crimes-trump-attorney-says
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June 30, 2021 1:20pm
Waytogo

Sometimes there is often more than one way to read things. This article by Katie Bradford today and in particular this opening comment had me rolling around

“The country’s water supplies are to be split into four, and councils nationwide are revolting already”

Tee hee

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/local-councils-including-auckland-revolt-against-governments-water-plan
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June 30, 2021 1:42pm
Durden

Owhiro bay flooding due to “ramping”.

The council seems to spend so much money on rebuilding perfectly functional kerbs and footpaths on the south coast roads but will not build a seawall where it is absolutely essential. Their priorities are plain stupid. The managers of infrastructure and the idiotic Labour Green councillors need to be kicked out.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/125596769/a-wave-ramp-to-their-front-door-whiro-bay-residents-demand-action-after-waves-hits-road-and-property
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June 30, 2021 1:59pm
- MCos
  
  My friend and his neighbours along the beach at Raumati built their own protection.
  I suppose you’d have a fight on your hands if it was suggested the ratepayers shouldn’t have to fund improvements to private property.
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:47pm
cmm

“The Government did make a decision to calibrate vaccine supply in the first half of the year so the country could prepare for larger amounts of stock.”

Buzzword soup.

HTF do you calibrate a vaccine supply?

They’re keeping some in the freezer and slowing down because running out would not be a good look. “Getting tight” isn’t running out is it?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-vaccine-supplies-set-to-get-very-tight-149000-doses-administered/SDXR6HNLZFAO5PNOPPOHGZ3SMI/
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June 30, 2021 2:12pm
cmm

Shocking! A threatening email was sent to the Dunedin Council!

Was it a white supremacist threatening to gun them down?

Was it a hate-speech filled threat from a guy with ten litres of petrol and a box of matches?

Nope, it was just a reminder to the council: “I want you to know that the quiet Kiwi will remember how you vote.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/local-government/300345497/threat-emailed-to-councillor-before-dunedin-council-votes-for-mori-representation
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June 30, 2021 2:18pm
- surfing
  
  My goodness, they are putting maori into technical positions they are not qualified to fill.
  
  This will result in infrastructure mistakes that will affect generations of people.
  
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  June 30, 2021 3:37pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  That is blatant ‘hate speech’ Jail him!
  
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  June 30, 2021 5:57pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Long interview (13min) with Judith Collins

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300345608/judith-collins-says-last-national-government-should-have-invested-more-in-mental-health

Pity the text version is just a slanted snippet of the whole.
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June 30, 2021 2:28pm
- rangitoto
  
  Personally, I don’t think a lot can really be done on mental health with current medical tech. Psychiatry and counseling are only a tiny step above voodoo.
  
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  June 30, 2021 5:02pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    We could provide clean, safe environments for folks in mental distress.
    
    Perhaps no guarantee that a treatment will work …
    
    but somewhere where folks could spend time knowing that they were being cared for.
    
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    June 30, 2021 5:48pm
    - fernglas
      
      Precisely. At the moment, that place is called prison.
      
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      June 30, 2021 6:11pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Isolated but safe …. That didn’t end well last time.
      
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      June 30, 2021 8:29pm
    - RdM
      
      And being allowed to smoke tobacco like the rest of the populace can do would be a start.
      
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      July 1, 2021 1:08am
Tauhei Notts

Some members of the Finance and Expenditure Committee put a request for Treasury and the Reserve Bank to explain to them how they do their house price forecasts. The Labour members of that committee overruled the request.
What are they hiding?
Each day I see something like this that tells me that we have a government run by people whose truthfulness I doubt a bit.
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June 30, 2021 5:00pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Our pathetic PM makes a “Karen” joke about the white middle-class Judith Collins..

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/06/act-s-karen-chhour-speaks-out-after-jacinda-ardern-quips-hate-speech-laws-won-t-shield-judith-collins-from-karen-insults.html

and for those who don’t know MP Karen Chhour’s backstory…
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/chhour
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June 30, 2021 5:00pm
- rangitoto
  
  Taxinda is the ultimate white middle class Karen.
  
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  June 30, 2021 5:06pm
Maggie Pie

BREAKING….NewstalkZB@5.15

Mania Mahuta reads directly from script when answering questions about water reforms.
HDPA never gets word in edgewise. LOL!!

We need to beware of a NEW STRAIN of bullshit.
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June 30, 2021 5:32pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Former President Donald Trump cancelled plans to host a rally in Mobile, Alabama marking the Fourth of July after town officials denied a rally permit over concerns about it turning into a political event..
Are you shitting me? It ‘might be Political and not Patriotic? The Governor is a Republican – so a RINO I guess.
https://nz.yahoo.com/news/trump-july-4th-rally-alabama-173700336.html
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June 30, 2021 5:38pm
- Tall Man
  
  Cancel culture at the highest level.
  
  Wonder if they have recall legislation.
  
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  June 30, 2021 8:27pm
Cinematic

The polls must be shifting. Thomas Munch of Stuffed is working overtime today to portray Labour’s non-deliverers as giant slayers in the House. A more pathetic bunch on the govt front bench has never been seen.
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June 30, 2021 6:06pm
Jack5

Jacindarella is getting value for money today from her State-subsidised newspapers as well as from State TV and State Radio.

Tonight on TV1, Wily Willie Jackson and TV reporters were trying to soften up viewers for Jacinda’s neo-apartheid target of dual government by Maori.

At the NZ Herald web site, top billing is given to the trivial insults of National by Jacindarella’s deputy, Grant Robertson.

However, by parroting “it’s not separatism,” Labour and Maori activists are alerting the non-Maori majority that a revolution is under way.
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June 30, 2021 6:32pm
- Jack5
  
  Anyone know why the NZ Herald’s latest March subscriber numbers aren’t available at the New Zealand Audit Bureau site, while Stuff newspaper numbers are?
  
  No hints of why at the Stock Exchange site announcements for the Herald’s owner, NZME.
  
  Meanwhile, the NZME board’s ambition for the Herald, which is strong in the North Island but weak in the South Island?
  
  From the notice before NZME’s annual meeting of shareholders:
  
  Our priority is for The New Zealand Herald to be New Zealand’s Herald by becoming the number 1 news brand for all New Zealanders.
  
  If there Herald were to go for Labour’s throat over Labour’s neo-apartheid strategy, that would attract a bigger audience among the generally paler-faced South Islanders.
  
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  June 30, 2021 7:10pm
  - marcw
    
    According to Sir Bob Jones, the NZ Herald do not allow the NZ Audit Bureau to audit their sales – they report their own “readership” figures.
    
    https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/06/30/dying-newspapers/
    
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    June 30, 2021 7:35pm
- Prince
  
  Yes apparently Ardern scored a king-hit by calling Collins a ‘Karen’.
  And such is the state of NZ journalism.
  
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  June 30, 2021 7:15pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  welcome to our Ethno-nation
  
  With the sudden emergence into our political life of the revolutionary report He Puapua, it is clear New Zealanders are at a crossroads. We will have to decide whether we want our future to be that of an ethno-nationalist state or a democratic-nationalist one.
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/06/opinion-ethno-nationalism-or-democratic-nationalism-which-way-ahead-for-new-zealand.html
  
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  June 30, 2021 7:22pm
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    All’s good – Jacinda says it’s partnership. Winston can rant as much as he likes – he facilitated the deal
    
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    June 30, 2021 9:33pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yes, Jacinda has had her troops out scoring points today, but she hasn’t been able to settle the concerns of everyone in her usual fan-club.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/445877/bryce-edwards-the-confusing-and-concerning-hate-speech-reforms
  
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  June 30, 2021 7:43pm
- Cobolt24
  
  I saw that too.
  You’d think they’d at least ask some others like Seymour Collins or Winston who have recently voiced opinions on the issue rather than be so one-sided.
  
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  June 30, 2021 9:52pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

A heckler once interrupted Nikita Khrushchev in the middle of a speech in which he was denouncing the crimes of Stalin. “You were a colleague of Stalin’s,” the heckler yelled, “why didn’t you stop him then?”

Khrushschev apparently could not see the heckler and barked out, “Who said that?” No hand went up. No one moved a muscle. After a few seconds of tense silence, Khrushchev finally said in a quiet voice, “Now you know why I didn’t stop him.”
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June 30, 2021 8:46pm

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