General Debate 06 April 2024

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Chuck Bird

The bloody teachers who took part in the climate strike should lose one half day’s pay. I heard some poor child on TV saying that she would die from climate change before she got to old age. This crap is a form of child abuse and no doubt contributes to youth suicide.
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April 6, 2024 8:08am
- artemisia
  
  That child facing early death told the nation she is terrified. Sounds more like other issues.
  
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  April 6, 2024 8:10am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    She is not on her own. You should hear what Rod Carr’s view of the future is unless we follow the likes of James Shaw.
    
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    April 6, 2024 8:15am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      To repeat my previous comments, if you wish to effect change, you should encourage the Government to repeal the Zero Carbon Act, as amended in 2019.
      
      https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2019/0061/latest/LMS183736.html
      
      While that Act remains, it does not much matter who heads the Climate Change Commission.
      
      More importantly, it is clear that Mr Luxon has chosen to be passive on climate change policy in this term of government. That will be impossible in a second term, because the enormous cost of the Paris Accord commitments will become impossible to ignore. In summary, I don’t see much change in climate change policy in the next three years.
      
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      April 6, 2024 8:26am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        I have read the Act. It talks about zero in 2050. It does not state the carbon every year along the way.
        A Climate Change Commissioner could say we will have SMRs in ten or fifteen years and they will solve the problem.
        
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        April 6, 2024 9:52am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        A further point is that the claim that solar and wind are emission free is a lie. Do I have to explain why or can you work it out?
        
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        April 6, 2024 9:54am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        How could the Climate Change Commission solve the problem by nuclear power? New Zealand law prohibits it.
        
        As for solar and wind not being emissions free, I am not sure what your point is. New Zealand calculates its emissions according to the methodologies specified by the UNFCCC.
        
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        April 6, 2024 10:23am
      - Ghost
        
        You are wasting your time. He either doesn’t listen or understand.
        
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        April 6, 2024 10:32am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        You are quite correct. Rod Carr has been given a task and a directive set out in legislation.
        
        It is pointless to castigate him and the CCC for simply following the brief they were hired to comply with.
        
        The fact that the brief is fatal to any developed economy is one that politicians are scared to say out loud. They may have thought they could fudge it, but a second generation of kids is being indoctrinated as we speak in this ideology.
        
        Except they lack the faculty to identify it as ideology, or the reasoning skills to understand why cynical politicians decided it was easier to let it slide than take a stand.
        
        These kids honestly believe this stuff. So of course they are angry and disappointed in politicians.
        
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        April 6, 2024 10:25am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Do I have to explain why or can you work it out?
        
        Based on what I’ve seen on KB Benedict knows more about this than most people here.
        
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        April 6, 2024 10:29am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        “How could the Climate Change Commission solve the problem by nuclear power? New Zealand law prohibits it.”
        
        I know the law in Oz does but not so sure about NZ. Can you please tell me the law?
        
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        April 6, 2024 10:33am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        ” New Zealand cannot “fudge” its emissions inventory.”
        
        Does NZ count the emissions of manufacturing solar
        and wind and the disposal after 25 years?
        
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        April 6, 2024 10:36am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Apologies. I was wrong about the law prohibiting nuclear energy plants in New Zealand. It only prohibits nuclear weapons and nuclear powered vessels.
        
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        April 6, 2024 10:51am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        “As for solar and wind not being emissions free, I am not sure what your point is. New Zealand calculates its emissions according to the methodologies specified by the UNFCCC.”
        
        The UN says we are going to have global boiling. I say stuff the UN. We should count the emissions in mining, constructing and transporting the solar panels and wind turbines plus any extra transmission lines.
        
        You can see all about it on Sky News Australia.
        
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        April 6, 2024 11:19am
      - wsk12345
        
        Chuck – it’s the Paris Accord commitments that are the problem as we start paying for those very soon and it is many many billions.
        
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        April 6, 2024 12:11pm
      - Chuck Bird
        
        “Based on what I’ve seen on KB Benedict knows more about this than most people here.”
        
        It depends on who he has read. Maybe he can tell us if he has read so called deniers like Dr Judith Curry or Dr Steven Koonin, author of “Unsettled”?
        
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        April 6, 2024 12:19pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “I say stuff the UN.”
        
        I would like to have a debate grounded in reality. New Zealand is not going to be the only country in the world to leave the UNFCCC.
        
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        April 6, 2024 12:19pm
      - cmm
        
        “It is pointless to castigate him and the CCC for simply following the brief they were hired to comply with.”
        
        I really hate the passivity in this. It smacks of the “just following orders” excuse.
        
        No, just following orders is not enough.
        
        If you are seeing falsehoods or broken policy then it is your responsibility as one being paid by the NZ taxpayer to call the issue out.
        
        If, say, legislation changes are need to make progress, then they need to call this out too.
        
        I know NZ just follows the international way of doing carbon accounting, but, again, when that is broken then it is their job to call it out.
        
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        April 6, 2024 2:57pm
      - jkt
        
        Benedict Yu: The cost will only be enormous if we achieve our NDC.
        Achieving the NDC may well do a lot of things like building resilience here or in other regions of the world, at said enormous cost, but it will not change the climate.
        
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        April 6, 2024 6:19pm
    - Cassandra
      
      Compelling reason to disestablish the CCC. We have a Climate Minister, that’s enough. Actually too much, make him or her an associate to a senior minister eg DIA. Or Foreign Affairs since the main task is to demonstrate via smoke and mirrors that NZ is doing its bit.
      
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      April 6, 2024 8:47am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        You may be surprised to know that the Ministry for the Environment has a climate change directorate, separate from the Commission, that has more staff than the Commission.
        
        Also I don’t agree on “smoke and mirrors”. The commitments are real and the cost will be enormous.
        
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        April 6, 2024 9:32am
      - Cassandra
        
        Benedict: you misunderstood me, I think: I meant that our advocates should do as China does – talk a big case and then do as little as possible. If climatologists can fudge the figures then surely the NZ Government can.
        
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        April 6, 2024 10:03am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        No I did not misunderstand you. New Zealand cannot “fudge” its emissions inventory.
        
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        April 6, 2024 10:25am
      - kowtow
        
        Cass
        
        Talking of talking the talk and climate hysteria .
        
        Here we hear of our farmers ( and others) having to bend over backwards to appease our buyers who’re so discerning , clean and full of wonderfulness over in Europe and if we don’t , we’ll die .
        
        One of those high value but carbon aware buyers is Nestle .
        
        And yet ;
        
        ‘France’s food safety watchdog has recommended stricter monitoring of sites where the Nestle food giant extracts mineral water after traces of “fecal” contamination were found, according to a report seen by AFP on Thursday.’
        
        https://english.alarabiya.net/News/world/2024/04/05/france-monitoring-nestle-food-giant-after-traces-of-fecal-contamination-
        
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        April 6, 2024 10:33am
      - cmm
        
        BY: “New Zealand cannot “fudge” its emissions inventory.”
        
        Of course NZ could do this. Sure that would be breaking agreements, but it still could fudge the numbers.
        
        NZ could also say “Screw you all/. We are no longer going to use your broken way of doing carbon accounting. We are now going to do it this way (and introduce a more science based set of policies)”.
        
        Of course there could be some repercussions of doing so, but it is not impossible. We’re only dealing with a few pesky international agreements – not the laws of physics.
        
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        April 6, 2024 3:01pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Chuck you have it the wrong way round. Nuclear power is prohibited in New Zealand. I thought that was widely known.
      
      https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1987/0086/latest/DLM115116.html
      
      There is no Australian law that would prohibit nuclear power.
      
      However more importantly, electricity generation is not the problem for New Zealand. Electricity is already 80 percent renewables. There are two barriers to meeting the Paris Accord commitments. Firstly, transport emissions. Secondly, agricultural emissions. It is as simple as that.
      
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      April 6, 2024 10:42am
      - Chuck Bird
        
        I watch Sky News Oz regularly and I know for certain that nuclear power generation is against the law. Peter Dutton has made it an election issue.
        
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        April 6, 2024 11:22am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        So far, apart from Russia, there are no SMR’s in operation. NuScale has suspended the build on their first reactor. So even the first is at least 10 years from producing power.
        New Zealand would never be an early adopter, so SMR’s are at least 30 years away from a New Zealand perspective. Maybe closer to 50 years. And that is putting the legal issues to one side.
        There is also now some serious questioning about the utility of SMR’s. They are not as efficient as large reactors. They still have the waste issue. Once the production issues (by building multiple units) are sorted for the EPR reactors currently being built in the UK and France they will produce power more cheaply than SMR’s.
        
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        April 6, 2024 11:32am
      - David Garrett
        
        Benedict: You are now reversing yourself when you conceded that legislation prevents nuclear weapons and nuclear powered ships, but says nothing about nuclear power stations
        
        I confess to have only skim read the Act you have cited, so if I have missed something, please do draw the relevant section to my attention.
        
        I suspect you are referring to s.4 which establishes the New Zealand nuclear free zone, which includes all land in New Zealand and its territorial waters.
        
        That section – nor anything else in the Act – can possibly prohibit all nuclear material in the country – if that were the case, every medical facility which contains a radiothereapy unit would be acting illegally.
        
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        April 6, 2024 2:04pm
      - cmm
        
        Laws can be changed. They are not the laws of physics.
        
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        April 6, 2024 3:03pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Australia has had a small reactor in Sydney for many decades. It’s used for producing radioactive material for the medical purposes.
        
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        April 6, 2024 7:57pm
  - Cassandra
    
    Only 6 April and we’ve got the gas fire on in Tauranga. Bloody global warming! (MLT).
    
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    April 6, 2024 8:49am
    - oldpark
      
      Quite right Cassandra. We are the same .Just for the record and hope the wee snotty nose brats who pay no tax missing school any excuse for another day off demanding attention, protesting with misguided propaganda from liars and control freaks on the crime of our time fake news on “Global Warming” Check out this lot . NZ had the coldest March in Twelve Years .
      Bring on so called “Global Warming” if it exists, as more people die from cold than heat .
      
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      April 6, 2024 9:50am
  - G152
    
    In 60 years time that arrogant its all me brat will have seen global warming reduced to what it is.
    Weather…..
    And whatever she contributes to an over burdening population will find her actions to have been reprehensible lies…
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:22am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Except she and her cohort will be sitting round a fire burning dung and wondering where all the “bad luck” came from.
      
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      April 6, 2024 10:26am
  - Conservatarian
    
    I saw the clip via Twitter of that climate terrified, propagandised, Hamas flag draped teen girl (footage from Pravda news last night apparently). I then showed the clip to my 13 year old daughter, who started a posh girl’s high school two months ago.
    
    “God, she’s dumb” was the reply, and then she carried on doing her maths homework out of an old fashioned exercise book. There’s hope yet.
    
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    April 6, 2024 11:18am
  - jkt
    
    Art: The child is very realistic in her fear.
    Her worst nightmare will come true if we get anywhere near achieving our Paris Commitment, NDC.
    
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    April 6, 2024 6:25pm
- Tomtoddy
  
  https://www.climatedepot.com/2024/04/02/trust-us-kids-were-climate-educators/
  
  This is what is happening in Tasmania and I understand in many NZ schools. “Give me a child until they are five….”
  
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  April 6, 2024 8:30am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Thanks for the link. I started the article. It is a bit long but I will finish it a little later on.
    
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    April 6, 2024 8:38am
  - pdm
    
    TT so true.
    
    There was a woman teacher on one news last night proudly proclaiming the value of the indoctrination she was inflicting on the kids she taught.
    
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    April 6, 2024 8:47am
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      A Yank import in a primary school.
      
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      April 6, 2024 9:01am
    - I remember when
      
      pdm:
      
      She fitted in nicely with the student who just ‘knew’ that climate change was going to result in her death.
      
      Unless, of course, something that requires ‘common sense’ occurs before that happens.
      
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      April 6, 2024 9:25am
      - Conservatarian
        
        Imagine this girl’s shock when she wakes up on 31 Dec 2099 and realises she’s not yet died from climate change.
        
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        April 6, 2024 11:46am
    - PeeJay
      
      So different from the teachers I had when I was a young one. While obviously having a leftist bias (must be something about the profession), my English teachers specifically insisted we read every viewpoint to gain as wide an understanding of any issue. Be this slavery, apartheid, ancient history, current affairs, their view was that for us to form well rounded opinions, we needed to be exposed to all opinions we could find. I still fondly remember being in the UK and reading all the big Sunday papers – Telegraph (very right wing), Times (right to centre) and Observer (left) and marvelling at how the same issue would be reported depending on the bias of the paper.
      
      Sadly it would seem the current generation of children don’t have teachers encouraging them to ‘read everything’ but rather ‘read from the approved echo chamber list’. Quite sad really.
      
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      April 6, 2024 10:06am
      - gravedodger
        
        Do they “Read” or just become inculcated from various podium that require legislated enforcement for authority and protection from any deviation of thought.
        Thunberg is an ideal example. vacuous little line deliverer, lines provided by others.
        
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        April 6, 2024 10:32am
      - Paulus
        
        Many years ago in the UK my Polecon (Politics and Economics) Teacher was an avowed Committee member off the UK Communist Party.
        Very old Boys Private School in London.
        The wide lessons we learnt by being able to converse and argue with him taught us much which became relevant over the years.
        We would have been out on our ears for taking time off to scream and shout in school hours, as there was a waiting list for places.,
        
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        April 6, 2024 10:35am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I have read it now. These adult alarmists have a lot to answer for and that includes Luxon.
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:47am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Reply to cmm,
      
      No, we can’t just calculate emissions just as it pleases us. This is all regulated by the various IPCC agreements.
      
      New Zealand has never broken its international commitments. In fact we are among the foremost in advocating a rules based international order. Quite logical for a small advanced nation. A stance that is in common with other small advanced nations.
      A serious breach of our obligations would have real consequences. Our climate commitments are bound up in modern trade agreements (EU and UK). A serous breach would result in trade sanctions.
      
      So New Zealand will honour its current climate change commitments. The only circumstance in which we won’t is if there is an international agreement to do so. That is unlikely. For instance the UK will soon have a Labour government. They are hardly going to duck their climate change commitments.
      
      On transport the international obligation is to phase out ICE vehicles from 2040. Europe is currently ahead of that, with some nations having the early date of 2030. They will slip, maybe to the second half of the 2030’s, but not more than that. It is worth noting that 2040 is two motor vehicle generations away, with most vehicles having a major model change every 8 years. Think of the level of change since first Nissan Leaf came out in 2012, with 100 km range. Today the Nissan Leaf is over 400 km with much less battery degradation over time. By 2040 with solid state batteries a range of 1,000 km is likely for the Leaf. The economic life of cars is around 20 years (though in NZ it is more like 25 years). You don’t see that many pre 2000 cars on the roads these days.
      
      New Zealand is also likely to have two different governments by 2040. The current government through to 2032, going by the pattern of last 50 years, followed by a Labour/Green/Te Pati Māori government. In my view NZ politics in the 2030’s is going to be dominated by the Left. People aged 16 today will have voted three times by 2032. The youngest voters of 2032 are aged 10 last. Every single survey shows young people are more concerned about climate change than older voters. It seems unlikely that will change in the next 10 years.
      If there is some slippage in the time frames, it will only because too much change is required in the next 16 years. While the current government may not do much, just the bare minimum, the next government won’t.
      
      Climate change issues will be central to the next Left government, given the Green component of that government. I suspect that Swarbrick will pivot to climate change as her driving mission as opposed to the identity politics which seems to be much of her current concerns. She will want the Greens to be a 15% party rather than the current 10%. Climate change policy will have broader appeal than identity politics.
      
      There is zero chance that National will agree to the government’s official position to be skeptical about climate change. While they won’t want to do much, they will do something, particularly through the ETS. The price of carbon under the ETS is currently around $70 per tonne, or around 20 cents per litre of petrol. By 2030, I reckon the price will be double to around $140. That is 40 cents per litre, or around 15% of the fuel price, based on current prices. The ETS price could be higher.
      
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      April 6, 2024 5:02pm
      - cmm
        
        “No, we can’t just calculate emissions just as it pleases us. This is all regulated by the various IPCC agreements.”
        
        Bloody hell Wayne, you did not read what I wrote.
        
        Yes, as I said these are regulated by various agreements but that does not make them correct (ie. scientifically accurate).
        
        If the rules do not agree with the laws of physics, then guess which is broken? Since you’re a politician you might need a hint: you can’t change the laws of physics in parliament.
        
        If all this climate change stuff is so serious, then which is really more important:
        A) Abiding by broken rules of the IPCC
        B) Being scientifically accurate.
        
        Of course National will do nothing. We’re offered a bullshit choice: red or blue – it’s the same bullshit inside.
        
        If we were accurate we might actually find that NZ’s carbon emissions were way lower.
        
        Anyone with half a brain also understands that our current policies are amazingly broken. It would, for instance, be far better carbon wise (ie. assuming CO2 is bad) to burn gas than import coal and burn that.
        
        In fact, charging EVs using coal fired power generates more CO2 per km than using a petrol powered car.
        
        If CO2 is an existential threat then National, like Labour, are trying to kill us.
        
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        April 6, 2024 7:48pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Once extremely dumb and dangerous net-zero commitments sadly produce real and biting human crises of well-being, they will be abandoned. Perhaps censoring and cancelling top-of-their-game scientists who don’t agree with the climate mass hysteria is a very very insane thing to do?
        
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        April 6, 2024 8:03pm
- surfing
  
  Why on earth was this held on a school/work day?
  
  God help this country if these students are an indication of the future.
  
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  April 6, 2024 8:35am
  - Taieri
    
    They are.
    And there’s no God anymore.
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:29am
    - pdm
      
      God only makes an appearance for karakia these days.
      
      Apparently by order of the previous governments Maori Caucus.
      
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      April 6, 2024 5:14pm
  - kowtow
    
    These are the battalions of Chloejugend .
    
    Mind you in some majot centres judging by the photos and reports they could barely muster a hundred .
    
    Te media also have an awful lot to answer for this hysteria .
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:37am
- Clown
  
  Those teachers should be fired. Climate change is the biggest scam of the century. PPM levels were much higher 15 million years ago than now and we are panicking?
  
  What I find truly disturbing is that certain groups are using kids to advance their agenda. Climate change is basically new Covid that’s being used to control the population.
  
  Why not a protest about the food prices and outrageous lack of competition in this country?
  
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  April 6, 2024 8:37am
  - JackRabbit
    
    What I find disturbing is the people given jobs as teachers, that know 3/4 of 5/8 of f***k all, compared to teachers from my generation.
    
    I used to love a couple of teachers that could overturn a common misconception, with a single question that students had to answer using what they had learned.
    
    A single question in today’s world could be:
    
    “Man has been living on earth, which on current research of fossils is 6 million years, as a minimum, probably a lot longer given that artifacts decay.
    
    During that time that man has been here, average temperatures have been a lot hotter and a lot colder that today. And CO2 levels have been higher and lower than they are today.
    
    Q1: ‘Explain how the temperatures and CO2 rose and fell without the modern energy and population that is blamed for the CO2 and temperature variations?’
    
    Q2: ‘Explain how man survived through all these large variations when smaller variations we are experiencing today are supposed to be fatal?’
    
    Q3: ‘Given the law of conservation of energy, total energy in a closed system cannot increase or decrease bu itself.
    
    Since the sun is the only external input to the closed energy system of planet earth, why is it, the sun, and earth’s varying proximity to it and interaction with it, ignored in all heating / cooling calculations?’
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:54am
    - Debsta
      
      Brilliant Jack!
      
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      April 6, 2024 12:20pm
  - Burtland
    
    Q why isn’t China concerned about Climate Change ?
    
    A because they already have a communist government
    
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    April 6, 2024 3:45pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      They are building more nukes than the rest of the world put together. They pretty much have the world solar panel market sewn up ….
      
      Go figure.
      
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      April 6, 2024 8:51pm
- Scott
  
  As I often say, climate change is a religion for secular people. The new religion has its own version of original sin – wicked humans are destroying the world through pollution and especially carbon. It has its own prophets, St Greta comes to mind. It has its own penance, rid thyself of fossil fuels and embrace the enlightenment of wind turbines and solar panels. And it has its own apocalypse, the temperature of the world is going up and unless we take drastic action and repent of our wickedness, the world will end!
  
  So our very own local, taxpayer funded high priests, the teachers, are imparting the catechism of climate change to our young people. Repent climate deniers! The world is ending! Repent!
  
  Isn’t it heartening to see our tax dollars paying for such a wonderful cause? 😎
  
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  April 6, 2024 8:54am
  - Colinxy
    
    Kind of. Climate hysteria is part of a well established religion – Marxism or more correctly Post Marxism. The 17 (+ 1) Sustainable Development Goals are fundamentally just an updated version of the Communist Confession of Faith (the original title for the Communist Manifesto).
    
    These goals are the latest iteration of Dialectic Materialism. It is easy to spot with the popularity of the word “equity” used amongst its 13 squared targets. Equity is just the modern word for socialism.
    
    Climate hysteria is just one facet of that religion.
    
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    April 6, 2024 2:36pm
- John Loveridge
  
  Our modern democratic nations are founded on independence of thought and freedom of expression. All of these are being rapidly eroded. It isn’t climate change that is destroying these children’s futures.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:18am
- Philview
  
  A friend of a friend stayed in Sweden during the last winter and said in January in the place he was living it was -47 and the locals said it was the coldest winter in living memory. Elsewhere an American Football game i think in Kansas it was so cold a number of supporters got frostbite and there followed amputations. I bet NZ school children don’t hear such stories.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:19am
  - Chris Nisbet
    
    According to experts, global warming also causes cooling. I shit you not.
    There is nothing that CO2 cannot do.
    
    https://www.science.org/content/article/global-warming-may-trigger-winter-cooling
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:24am
    - PeeJay
      
      You will very infrequently read about global warming these days for this very reason. Whenever there are extreme cold events, it somewhat destroyed the credibility of the global warming label. I think this is why the language changed from ‘global warming’ through to ‘climate change’ and the ‘climate crisis’. It’s a one size fits all label dreamt up by the best marketing / PR minds. Heat wave? Climate change / crisis. Cold snap? Climate change / crisis. Brilliant eh?
      
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      April 6, 2024 10:55am
      - Burtland
        
        “we own the science”
        
        https://sociable.co/government-and-policy/we-own-science-world-should-know-un-wef-disinformation/
        
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        April 6, 2024 3:21pm
- PurplePen
  
  I don’t often browse Z but did to see what peeps were saying about the protest. A transcript of one attendee “Like, it was like, totally like, amazing, and like, it’s like important, because like the Earth is like literally burning because of like white men”.
  
  Oh dear. It did male me chuckle but it says it all about our schools. Sad.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:00am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    If you want to watch them talking to each other try Reddit – R/Newzealand, or R/wellington or R/auckland.
    
    this is what passes for debate in those circles – all in ideological lockstep.
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:28am
    - sirknz
      
      Reddit is full of the dumbest ‘smart people’ you will ever encounter. To call those subs you listed ideological is an understatement. I have been blocked from posting on one or more of them with no reason given, probably because I won’t bend the knee to their idiocy.
      
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      April 6, 2024 11:58am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  That kid was also wearing a Gaza flag draped around her shoulders, she is outraged at the murderous Jews, snd worried about her Rangitira
  
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  April 6, 2024 12:08pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  CB: “I heard some poor child on TV saying that she would die from climate change before she got to old age.”
  
  Will she die from moving to Singapore, Darwin or Fiji? Massively humid and hot with torrential rains in those places. Not fatal just being there though. Some people even enjoy that climate. With abundant cheap fossil fuel energy you can also just switch on the aircon! 😊
  
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  April 6, 2024 8:41pm
artemisia

A trillion bucks to fix infrastructure. Mr Bishop says slice red tape, among other options.

We in Wellington might know a bit about water leaks and virtue signalling councils, unfortunately. Reported in February this year that some Wellington plumbers put their hand up to help with the 3200 leak backlog. Was the offer accepted?

Master Plumbers meet with Wellington Water but little progress on fixing leaky tobies The Post 12 February

Fast forward a month.

Frustration mounts as plumbers wait to be let loose on Wellington water crisis The Post 12 March

Maybe there has been progress since? Ratepayers and residents want to know. How hard would it be to request assessments, and for plumbers to just fix while on site if the quote is going to be less than an agreed amount. Done and dusted.
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April 6, 2024 8:08am
- sirknz
  
  Looks like there will be an update on Friday if the pattern holds…
  
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  April 6, 2024 8:59am
- waikatosinger
  
  It has been a great season for road works, with the weather helping to get a lot done much later in the year than is often the case. As someone who drives highway 29 between Tauranga and Hamilton regularly I am impressed by the amount of that road that has been resurfaced over the last few months, and at the work currently underway to upgrade problem sections.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:28am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Don’t waste money fixing infrastructure. I heard just yesterday that the kids don’t think they’re going to need it because, like, they’re all going to die!, because the sea’s going to boil, like.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:27am
  - JackRabbit
    
    A 4th Form science question:
    
    Water boils at 100°C. Salt water at 102°C. The current average earth temperature is 15°C
    
    Calculate the energy required to raise the temperature of the entire planet by 87°C (102-15).
    
    Since earth is a closed system, with the sun being the only external input via thermal, invisible spectrum, and magnetic energy, calculate:
    
    (a) how much closer to the sun, the earth would have to be to achieve that temperature? OR
    
    (b) how much more energy the sun would have to produce to achieve that temperature? AND
    
    (c) What source / entity would be capable of moving the earth into a lower orbit AND / OR provide the energy boost to increase the sun’s output?
    
    OR
    
    (d) Simply write on your paper, that man made global warning / cooling / change is a crock of shit.
    
    Next Question….
    
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    April 6, 2024 11:13am
    - Chris Nisbet
      
      Yeah, but runaway positive feedbacks will cause the boiling! Experts say!
      
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      April 6, 2024 11:31am
      - comm4nder
        
        Yes but the energy still has to come from somewhere!
        
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        April 6, 2024 2:28pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        “Class, I am well acquainted with thermal runaway having encountered it 50 years ago with transistors (component) going up in smoke.
        
        You can have thermal runaway but it still requires a source of energy that can ramp up. And that has no limiting constraints or feedback.
        
        Q8: “Please provide all the principle, calculations, constants, variables, and energy sources etc that you arrived at to make the statement runaway positive feedbacks will cause the boiling!”
        
        Q9: “Earth operating manual. Please state where you got the manual on earth’s operating systems, feedback loops, “tipping points”.
        
        Q10: “Please state the number of pages in said manual, and where you got it from.”
        
        Q11: Multi-choice: “Please state where you got scientific proof confirmation of the idea about runaway positive feedback from:
        (a) When you were high on P?
        (b) From Facebook?
        (c) The anonymous benefactor that keeps putting money in your bank account so that you can continue to be employed as Climate Change Fact Checker?
        (d) God?
        (e) Aliens?
        
        Thermal runaway can only occur when there is an unlimited (within the system constraints) source of energy, and the feedback loop has been removed. You cannot create energy out of thin air, not at a material level anyway.
        
        1. Hotter (sea)water = more water vapour
        -(this you can check next time you take a shower – provided you do actually shower)
        
        2. More water vapour = more clouds
        -(this is well known, and taught in primary school – provided you turn up to school)
        
        3. More Clouds = more blocking of sunlight
        -(you can check this on cloudy days – doh!)
        
        4. More block of sunlight = less energy reaching the planet
        -(you can check this by living long enough to experience the seasons.)
        
        5. Less energy = less heating.
        -(it’s colder in winter and hotter in summer – doh!)
        
        ~~Experts~~ Idiots will say anything for money.
        
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        April 6, 2024 2:40pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Of course they won’t be let loose. Fulton Hogan owns Wellington Water – they have a “strategic alliance” and every project has their say so or it doesn’t happen.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:29am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    A;hhhhhh…. That explains things for me rather nicely….
    
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    April 6, 2024 8:58pm
- kowtow
  
  Since the mid ’70’s the Establishment here has taken its eye off the ball and instead of doing the basics has concentrated on race relations , which weren’t a problem then ( but are now ) .
  
  This infrastructure deficit is a direct result of “progressive” politics.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:40am
- blue collar
  
  Nah brother art ……. I’m
  In the 3 waters industry …… we were laughing the other day because Wellington pulled alot of their RENEWALS ….( new pipelines as opposed to leak fixing the same stuffed lines )
  
  FACT
  South taranaki council is doing more pipeline renewals , kilometres of them , than Wellington this year . .
  
  South taranaki might hv 50,000 people all up at a guess with a large rural road network
  
  What is the Wellington council up to ? ,
  
  It’s more difficult and expensive to replace cbd and urban street pipes , but we do it all the time and is totally do-able just the price tag per metre changes .
  
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  April 6, 2024 2:22pm
Benedict Yu

In eastern Australia today it is raining. To put it mildly.

A lesson in the pitfalls of predictions. 😳…..

In 2007 Australia’s leading climate scientist predicted that the severe drought prevailing at the time may be permanent, and that the dams serving Australia’s major centres may never be full again.

https://theconversation.com/climate-and-floods-flannery-is-no-expert-but-neither-are-the-experts-5709

This warning prompted the NSW government to build a desalination plant at a cost of about $1 billion. The plant was finished in 2010. However it has never been required because in 2010 it started raining in Sydney. Apart from a couple of short dry spells, it has been raining ever since. 🙂

In 2022 Sydney recorded its highest annual rainfall since records began, with more than 2,200 mm recorded.

https://www.smh.com.au/environment/weather/wet-and-wild-sydney-s-record-rainfall-in-charts-20221006-p5bnoa.html

Today – 6 April 2024 – Sydney and all of South eastern Australia is hit by torrential rain. People are urged to stay at home.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-05/weather-warnings-australia-east-major-rain-event-unfolds/103670898

The huge Warragamba dam is about to spill, again. This dam is one of the largest urban water supply dams globally, and holds about 5 years supply of water for Sydney. It spilled 2 years ago.

https://youtu.be/b8wysZoERt4?si=leGqA5m8ISB5Is0v

It is likely to spill again over this weekend.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/wild-weather-rain-flooding-nsw-updates-warragamba-dam-forecast-to-fill-capacity-warning/d880d41b-4085-437f-a5bb-5ad59c6eda4c

So what is the lesson here? Maybe do not make predictions. 😑 But no. The same experts are doubling down. ☹️ The same experts who, in 2005, were warning of climate change induced permanent drought are now warning of permanent higher rainfall and floods. Also caused by….. climate change, or “global heating”.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/jan/06/flash-flooding-cyclones-global-heating-australia-wild-weather

So there you have it. In 2005 climate change was going to make eastern Australia permanently drought stricken. In 2024 climate change is going to drown Sydney. 😂

This is a lesson for all the children who yesterday took to the streets of New Zealand, panic stricken that they are going to die because of climate change. Go back to school and enjoy your lives.
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April 6, 2024 8:09am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Crikey,
  It was only a few months ago that I was reading about Sydney running out of water…and the impending droughts…
  
  https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/sydney-s-running-out-of-water-and-we-haven-t-been-paying-attention-20230830-p5e0jn.html
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:11am
  - kowtow
    
    25 odd years ago they were “predicting” Perth might have to be abandoned due to water deficits …….
    
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    April 6, 2024 11:00am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  You can tell it’s a scam (and not science) because there’s literally no way to prove the ‘experts’ wrong. They predict drought and then it rains? Yeah, that just means it’s worse than we thought and we’re all going to die! Stops raining for a bit? ‘Expert’ says told ya!
  Point out that Australia is literally the land of floods and droughts and they’ve been writing about it for centuries? Oh, you’re a denier then.
  The damage being done and the money being wasted because of this nonsense is unbelievable.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:34am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    “You can tell it’s a scam (and not science) because there’s literally no way to prove the ‘experts’ wrong.”
    
    The onus should be on them to prove they are right and they do not have a good record for their predictions.
    
    The List Of 120 Years Of Climate Scares By Scientists
    
    https://710wor.iheart.com/featured/mark-simone/content/2019-10-08-the-list-of-120-years-of-climate-scares-by-scientists/
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:55am
    - JackRabbit
      
      “Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ”
      ― Nikola Tesla
      
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      April 6, 2024 2:48pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Climate Change:
    A theory that all changes in climate and the weather are caused by mankind, and that are not able to be stopped unless you pay climate tax, give up your first born, sacrifice a virgin on the altar, worship Satan, or any one of the dozens of other pagan rituals (scams) that have been used over millennia to extort the unwary.
    
    There are plenty of examples in modern Sci-Fi, particularly the earlier (1966 – 2005) Star Trek series, Star Gate SG1, etc of this happening, including “weather gods”, “vaccine and drug peddling”, appeasing “weather gods with gold”.
    
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    April 6, 2024 3:00pm
- gravedodger
  
  Flannery is the ultimate climate catastrophist and Airbus Albo’s pick for next Governor General, Mostyn is an avowed disciple.
  The Warragamba dam is ninety mm of rainfall from spilling and forecasters are predicting in excess of 150 mm next two days.
  Danger flooding ahead.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:42am
- artemisia
  
  Warragamba dam now spilling.
  
  Evacuations under way and flash floods expected.
  
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  April 6, 2024 12:37pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Australia’s leading climate scientist should be run out of town on a rail
  
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  April 6, 2024 8:33pm
Cassandra

Prof Robert McCulloch comments that National does not seem to have a coherent approach to its budget, giving the “6.5% less” directive to its departments as an example. How do you cut 6.5% from Defence, for example? It doesn’t have enough staff, equipment or infrastructure to do its job. He also gives an example of school lunches – where’s the cost-benefit analysis (UK study shows they work). He attributes the problem to MMP and who can deny that – it’s a dog of a system – but we’re stuck. So we need a more thoughtful approach than “cut 6.5%”. Getting rid of the obvious useless departments would be a start. Ask Maori Development for a page of achievements (blank sheet of paper) then disband it would be a start. There are others.
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April 6, 2024 8:11am
- artemisia
  
  Good chance the CEO’s making cost savings is not the end of the matter. Once done, Ministers will have a good idea of which CEOs are doing what is required and which are dispensing with nice tea bags. Next step, almost certainly underway, what’s to be closed down completely, or a cut down version folded into another Ministry.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:42am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I agree. It also ignores the fact that some agencies need to be cut by 60 percent, not 6 percent. The Ministry for the Environment has increased staffing of 300 percent since 2017. All to implement the agenda of David Parker, one of massive centralisation. That agenda is in the rubbish bin.
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:46am
  - Paulus
    
    Are we to be assured that the CEO’s of Government Departments are actually doing what is required of them as it appears that some are continuing the scams that they started early last year by increasing their numbers, so they can now be reduced back to what they always wanted.
    I hear from within the Wellington circle that some are cutting some of their better and more intelligent staff as cost cuttings, with redundancies for the duration, but retaining low paid dross so that they can say the costs are reduced.
    I smell some cons going on in the left wing Public Services.
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:44am
    - artemisia
      
      So when the CEOs are not able to meet their KPIs they can tell the government it’s all their fault because they had to lay so many people off.
      
      Of course they will be a lot more subtle than that. Ministers will then be able to let those CEOs now that when one finger is pointed at them, the other three are right back atcha.
      
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      April 6, 2024 12:28pm
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  I strongly agree. Cutting 6.5 % across the board makes no sense. Defence does need beefing up, and it’s hard to justify cutting health, education and conservation – for example, we’re already short on ICU capacity compared with other 1st world countries.
  
  On the other hand, the demographic ministries … On “The Standard” the other day I challenged weka to identify essential services provided by the Ministry for Women. It didn’t take long for an outraged weka to call me a “sexist” and a “halfwit”.
  https://thestandard.org.nz/daily-review-02-04-2024/#comment-1994870
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:50am
  - wsk12345
    
    Nobody – NoBODY – is suggesting closing ICU capacity. We are talking about removing some of the massive growth in public “ servants” doing SFA in Wellington.
    
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    April 6, 2024 12:44pm
    - Pope Punctilious II
      
      I didn’t say anyone was suggesting closing ICU capacity. I said we needed MORE ICU capacity, which is unlikely to happen if health is cut by 6.5 %.
      
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      April 6, 2024 6:25pm
      - peterwn
        
        That is the thing, there is lots of scare mongering and astroturfing going on to try and put the Government in a dreadful light. For example the PSA claim there are going to be massive cuts in mental health services and media fan the flames by claiming Matt Doocey (Mental Health Minister) is on the ropes. What they would like to see is a big bun fight between Matt Doocey, Shane Reti and the Health CEO. Matt and Shane have more sense than to allow this to happen. There will be no disproportionate cuts in mental health services compared with other health services. If officials start playing Sir Humphrey Appleby tricks, they will be dealt with.
        
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        April 6, 2024 8:54pm
      - peterwn
        
        Following from my earlier posting it now seems that senior Ministry of Health officials forgot that there was a Minister of Mental Health and so did not keep him in the loop. One can infer from that that these officials just regard the new Government’s health policies as a joke and they can be ignored. The CEO’s decision making on which heads should roll has been made a bit easier – it can start with the above mentioned officials.
        Perhaps the Suicide Prevention Office was seen as an easy target for job cuts, and those responsible have now learned otherwise. The PM needs a formidable official like Sir Arnold Robinson (the Cabinet Secretary in ‘Yes Minister’) or Heather Simpson to sort out the top MOH officials.
        See: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2024/04/ministry-apologises-to-mental-health-minister-reworking-options-over-suicide-prevention-office.html
        
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        April 6, 2024 10:07pm
Pope Punctilious II

“Won’t somebody think of the bureaucrats?” Laura Walters at Newsroom bemoans job losses in the public sector.
https://newsroom.co.nz/2024/04/05/public-service-workers-will-struggle-to-find-work/
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April 6, 2024 8:14am
- Paulus
  
  To get there in the Australian Public Service I understand you have to be an Australian Citizen which can take 5 years plus.
  OK for Nurses and Teacher though.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:47am
- John Loveridge
  
  What did all these superfluous bureaucrats do before 2017?
  
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  April 6, 2024 12:01pm
  - Burtland
    
    study neomarxism at uni
    
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    April 6, 2024 3:32pm
Anthony Melchett

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/apr/01/perimenopause-symptoms-what-are-they-how-to-treat

Apparently we now have men and “ovary owners”

This will surely be looked back on as peak madness.
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April 6, 2024 8:19am
- CJames
  
  Who says it has peaked?
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:31am
  - Colinxy
    
    Too true. The dialectic of both Marxism and Fascism is incapable of removing reductio ad absurdum. As such, peak stupidity will never be reached so long as either cult exists.
    
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    April 6, 2024 2:49pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Also “uterus havers” previously known as “women”.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:36am
- wsk12345
  
  What about women pretending to me men? Compulsory to remove ovaries???
  
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  April 6, 2024 12:45pm
  - kowtow
    
    Easy test for that one .
    
    “Show us yer tits , luv.”
    
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    April 6, 2024 2:02pm
- peterwn
  
  What will the two Maggies and the mid-week tennis ladies think?
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:10pm
peterwn

So New York has had a 4.8 earthquake and it is big news! Ho hum – NZ has an earthquake about that magnitude every month or so.
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April 6, 2024 8:29am
- pdm
  
  Japan probably more often.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:32am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    This is true.
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:56am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I think the point is New York usually never gets earthquakes, a bit like Aussie when Victoria had the 5.8 a few years ago, usually never
  
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  April 6, 2024 12:14pm
  - kowtow
    
    “Today’s earthquake was surprising for many, but the New York City Metro area sees smaller-scale seismic activity quite frequently,” says Keiji Hammond, a Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences specialist at the American Museum of Natural History.
    
    And actually quite common in parts of Oz too.
    
    Don’t panic.
    
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    April 6, 2024 2:04pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      I’ve experienced three Aus earthquakes. Only one was that NZ style horizontal rocking motion (albeit quite a small and short lived one). The other two were very short and sudden shudders (as if a large plane had crashed nearby or a something large like a truck had bumped the building).
      
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      April 6, 2024 8:51pm
Pope Punctilious II

The shadow of Chris Finlayson looms long over New Zealand’s coastline.

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2024/04/05/coastal-court-action-flies-under-the-radar/
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April 6, 2024 8:30am
Tomtoddy

When I was a kid I used to visit Christchurch regularly and a favourite activity was climbing the steps in the Cathedral. It afforded great views over the city and plains as far as the Alps. Earthquakes stuffed the building and a great struggle began to try and restore the landmark. The numbers were frightening even with taxpayers help.

Suddenly out of the blue the cost to fix the place has ballooned out over $100 million to be a total of $250 million. Some thing fishy surely?? Consultants?? Advisers?? Engineers?? Over engineering??

One has to ask is it worth it when we are so broke.
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April 6, 2024 8:41am
- thetiedarch
  
  It’s a masonry building. There’s basically nothing tying each block to the other to resist lateral loads. It’s not an easy fix. And the foundations are likely crap.
  
  But if you want to complain, blame Jim Anderson and his crowd who took the Diocese to the high court to force them to rebuild in stone. The original rebuild was a modern timber structure. They’d have finished it years ago if they’d been able to proceed.
  
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  April 6, 2024 8:52am
  - Vinicius
    
    Correct me if I’m wrong but Jimbo Anderton wasn’t actually an Anglican and was a Catholic?
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:29am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Correct
      
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      April 6, 2024 9:37am
      - lifesgood
        
        He WAS a Catholic. Left the church many years before sticking his nose into the cathedral broohaha.
        
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        April 6, 2024 1:12pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      But he is a leftie, he poked his nose in when the Anglican Church said they want to scrap the building and build smaller, typical leftist, jump into jackboots when a decision is made
      
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      April 6, 2024 12:18pm
  - mogg
    
    That doesn’t necessarily follow, we have many brick built buildings in Wgtn which have resisted earthquakes, while many relatively (20yr old) modern reinforced concrete buildings have had to demolished.
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:50am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Do you k is in CHCH the concrete pads under houses did not even need mesh to reinforce, this crap about CHCH not having earthquakes is utter bullshit, the cathedral has now been damaged 7 times since being built because of earthquakes, 1880s twice 1890s 1910. Many of those houses that were tipped up in East CHCH actually floated out of the ground
      
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      April 6, 2024 12:22pm
- Nukuleka
  
  No, you’re right, Tom. Bulldoze it down and put another Wilson’s carpark in its place.
  
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  April 6, 2024 8:56am
  - gravedodger
    
    Err don’t think so Nuke, unless Canterbury wants to embrace Otautahi as the title of the Provincial urban center, then a skyline Garage will do the job.
    I encounter “Wilsons rubble paved enclosures ” in far too many places now with mobility issues abounding.
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:23am
    - JackRabbit
      
      “…unless Canterbury wants to embrace Otautahi.”
      
      Otautahi sounds like something out of the hobbit. I don’t know where it is, since the main city in Canterbury is know as Christchurch.
      
      As in Christ’s Church Cathedral.
      
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      April 6, 2024 11:02am
- sirknz
  
  Didn’t take into account the rule that any public infrastructure will always come in 2 years late and be at least 3 times the originally quoted price that was palatable to the tax/ratepayer.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:02am
- Scott
  
  Tomtoddy, I visited the cathedral site several years ago and noted what a wreck it was. Trigger warning, I’m going to say something spiritual right now. I had a sense in my spirit that God was done with that building. It was wrecked.
  
  Then I visited the cardboard cathedral and spoke to some local members of the church. They told me the church voted to demolish the old cathedral and use the insurance money to build a new church on the site. Unfortunately some high profile Christchurch people, who were not actually members of the church, took the church to court and now they have been forced to do a monumental rebuild.
  
  I’m very sceptical that the cathedral will be rebuilt in my lifetime? Millions and millions of dollars will be spent and decades will go by before the cathedral is fit for purpose. If the church had been allowed to rebuild, a new cathedral could have been opened by now. And the insurance would have covered the cost.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:06am
  - gravedodger
    
    It was never a “Cathedral” Scott, above average church maybe.
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:24am
    - Don Beckett
      
      The word ‘Cathedral’ comes from the Latin word ‘Cathdra’ meaning seat – a cathedral is where the bishop of the diocese has his ‘Cathedra’ – his seat of authority. So generally, a cathedral is always a very prominent & regal building – but not always.
      
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      April 6, 2024 11:18am
    - rangitoto
      
      A cathedral is just a church that houses a bishop’s throne. It doesn’t require any particular architecture or size.
      
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      April 6, 2024 3:49pm
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    The cost of maintaining that stone would have been horrendous, several churches in Dunedin have simply been bowled over because of the cost of earthquake strengthening
    
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    April 6, 2024 12:25pm
- peterwn
  
  The problem lies with judge made law. The Anglican Bishop of Christchurch had decided the Cathedral was not worth rebuilding. The priority was providing the most effective ‘outreach’ to the faithful and the wider community. Then the late Jim Anderton (MP of various left wing parties) then decided put his sticky beak into the matter and to take the Anglican Diocesan Trust Board (or whatever it is called) to court arguing that the Board had a legal obligation to rebuild the cathedral. The Judge (quite wrongly in my view) concurred and there forced the hand of the Anglican Church in Christchurch to rebuild.
  I think the influencing thing is that the Cathedral (and its site in the Square) along with Christs College and other features are part of the fundamental fabric of Christchurch dating right back to the arrival of the First Four Ships in 1850. Hence the Cathedral and its site were considered public property rather than private property of the Anglican Church.
  So thanks to Jim Anderton the City and Community are stuck with an expensive rebuild or a perpetual construction site. In the 21st Century there is just not the will for wealthy merchants and artisans in a city willing to contribute to build cathedrals, town halls, etc. When they do contribute they would rather contribute to build things of value to the community such as the new Wellington Childrens Hospital or schools (eg the just opened St Ignatius of Loyola high school in South Auckland).
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:11am
  - rouppe
    
    And how much money is Jim putting into it?
    
    None, I’d assume
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:26am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Well none now as he is long dead.
      
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      April 6, 2024 9:39am
      - rouppe
        
        He had a will and an estate. If he felt it was that important he could have donated some of that at least to the project.
        
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        April 6, 2024 9:58am
      - Matt Long
        
        Socialists used the same principles as entrepreneurs, OPM.
        Except entrepreneurs borrow or sell shareholding to fund their projects.
        Socialists just take other people’s money.
        
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        April 6, 2024 2:43pm
    - peterwn
      
      I thought at the time that it was significant that he did not lift a finger to help with fundraising. He should have put his money where his mouth is and convened a fundraising team to raise the money. He would then have had no problem when he turned up at the pearly gates.
      
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      April 6, 2024 10:02am
  - gravedodger
    
    Not only a seriously aging catholic busy body Pete, James Patrick was in cahoots with Mushroom magnate Philip Burdon in forcing OPM to be spent reinstating the Church at whatever cost.
    
    Maybe attempting to curry favour with a soon to be confronted heavenly person and being a little fearful they needed some extra insurance as not all their earthly deeds would appear in the credit column.
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:36am
  - Vinicius
    
    peterwn said,
    ‘Anderton decided [to]put his sticky beak into the matter’.
    
    That is a good definition of socialists like Anderton.
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:54am
  - Jethrod
    
    Interesting that it took only 3 to 4 years to rebuild Notre Dame de Paris after the fire that virtually destroyed it. No petty squabbling there, just action. No former pollies morning in.
    
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    April 6, 2024 12:04pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      The difference is that since the French revolution, all churches are owned by the state, so it was a government decision to rebuild their amazing 900 year old cathedral – one of the prime landmarks of Paris.
      
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      April 6, 2024 12:53pm
    - peterwn
      
      The French Government just did it and put up all the €€€.
      
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      April 6, 2024 1:28pm
      - imalwaysright
        
        I think they had the cheek to ask the world to donate to the rebuild fund.
        
        Apparently the spontaneous fire broke out in two separate areas. Odd.
        
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        April 6, 2024 2:23pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        It was suspected that a couple of the workers doing the roof repair work were Muslim, and set fire to it.
        Never followed up or made public of course. The religion of peace member who hate Christians would never do that, even though nearly 200 hundred Catholic churches in France have been torched in the last couple of years.
        ( HUSH – MSM denies & refudes that statement.)
        
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        April 6, 2024 3:03pm
- rouppe
  
  Did they suddenly say that it needed to be base isolated? And then a music recording studio built underneath it?
  
  As per Wellington Town Hall?
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:23am
- John Loveridge
  
  Consultants, advisors, engineers, bureaucrats, and quite probably a significant Maori tax too. I’d be entirely unsurprised to learn that the local iwi have claimed this bastion of 19th century Anglican enterprise as a sacred traditional taonga, and must be expensively consulted and appeased at every step.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:23am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Over engineering, at least from the perspective of 1881. The article indicated a massive amount of unanticipated work to be done on foundations. This will be done to latest earthquake standards, and presumably has to be done without demolishing what remains. No doubt enormously expensive.
  
  I would say do it.
  
  I visit Christchurch regularly. Until the Cathedral is fixed, the centre of Christchurch has a dead heart. And while they are at it, the abandoned buildings in the centre need to be compulsorily purchased and demolished.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:23am
  - CJames
    
    When they dug the foundations for the cathedral, they went into swampy ground below sea level. To retrofit foundations that will meet current earthquake codes into that will be massively expensive.
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:27am
  - wsk12345
    
    Right well best you find the money Visitor, because us locals ain’t paying for any more of it than we have already been forced to.
    
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    April 6, 2024 12:50pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Funny, the Hundertwasser building in Whangarei also went massively over budget because they found mud underneath on reclaimed land on a former estuarine swamp.
    So foundations were far more expensive than the original publicly disclosed estimate. Seems like a pattern here.
    
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    April 6, 2024 2:49pm
- wsk12345
  
  I didn’t think it was worth it at $100m. But no doubt as a ratepayer I’ll be forced to contribute again and again and again.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:24am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I am not surprised.
  
  I am just waiting for an announcement that the cost of the stadium has blown out.
  
  Back to the cathedral… the Anglican Church wanted to demolish it and to build a contemporary cathedral. The problem was that a small, but fanatical, lobby group would not let it go.
  
  I think that it will be mothballed. I would be astonished if Nicola Willis gives any consideration to more funding. Especially as the project has seven years, at least, still to run. There will be more cost increases.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:26am
- PeeJay
  
  From what I have heard of the build contract, it’s not a lump sum (fixed price) contract. Just too risky for the main contractor. Suspect it’s a cost plus contract.
  
  If true, the fact the main contractor would not go fixed price should have rung major alarm bells – if it was too risky for a very well resourced contractor, that should have ended the project there and then.
  
  But hey, someone else money – dare say in years to come all the consultants will be backslapping each other on LinkedIn (so proud to have been part of this project etc) and the original cost / timeframe will be relegated to history and never to be mentioned again!
  
  In other words, nothing unusual in NZ construction!
  
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  April 6, 2024 11:19am
  - John Loveridge
    
    Ugh. You’ve just reminded me of why I do not participate in LinkedIn. Somebody (here I think) once called it a giant circle jerk.
    
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    April 6, 2024 12:07pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I just heard the Christchurch Mayor quoted – “I look forward to discussing funding for the Cathedral with Nicola Willis.”
    
    well good luck with that.
    
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    April 6, 2024 12:26pm
    - Ghost
      
      I hope Willis takes the call and highly recommends Christchurch talk to Bunnings about using their sausage sizzle fundraising to get the money.
      
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      April 6, 2024 12:33pm
imalwaysright

Here is a very brief look back at what we were forced to do.
https://youtu.be/hGz64rfsLgY?si=ahx7wWzJuYzq6-l5
Warning: Contains traces of nuts.
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April 6, 2024 8:44am
NeverMindTheBollocks

My home ran away from me.

It’s an old Wayne & Shuster gag, about a boy who fell out of a covered wagon heading West.

That’s how I feel about Wellington. I’m Wellington born, bred & by choice. I love the place, hills, weather and all … as it was a few years ago. But (my view) its reputation for a bit of alternative interest/ kookiness attracted weirdos (sorry, diverse peoples) from all over the country. Who else but government was going to offer a well paid, seat polishing job to an awkward, sensitive person with a lot of opinions about how much better the world would be if only it listened to meeee? And so Wellington has become the U bend of the country.

I can live with a bit of that, but mayoral and council incompetence, well documented on this blog & empowered by the foregoing brave blossoms, is turning the city into a wasteland. My town is running away from me.

And so, I’ve reluctantly and sadly come to the conclusion that I need to leave. I have only so many years left on the planet & Wellington is unlikely to improve any time soon.

I increasingly don’t like the cold and will not move to the Great Satan (Auckland, to misquote the Ayatollah). I’m thinking quiet towns with broad streets, no on-road cycleways or pedestrian crossings in non traditional colours.

All suggestions gratefully received.
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April 6, 2024 8:52am
- rouppe
  
  I’m off the same opinion. And interested in the same suggestions.
  
  There’s always Thailand… you can take your full national super there as well.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:28am
  - Che Guava
    
    So you can receive your benefit from the NZ taxpayer while you don’t even live here? That’s a loophole that should be closed. By all means leave, but you shouldn’t also continue to be a beneficiary on the NZ taxpayer’s dime.
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:48am
    - gravedodger
      
      Why not Che? Then you may have well been fully supportive of locking NZ citizens out of their own nation while making it easier for friendly DJs and lawn mower sales persons to enter without delay aye.
      Maybe even supporting two standards of citizenship as well.
      
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      April 6, 2024 11:09am
      - Che Guava
        
        My point is that, to the extent the law allows the practice, why should benefits be paid by NZ taxpayers to people living offshore? If they are to receive it, they should at least have to reside in the country that is paying them, and therefore spend the money in our economy, not in some other economy.
        
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        April 6, 2024 11:55am
    - The Housekeeper
      
      Che, talk about loopholes that should be closed …
      
      How about the 1800+ “residents” who still receive full NZ Super even though they are neither 65 nor NZ citizens but because they piggyback off their elderly partners’ pensions? The law was rightly changed in 2017 but those already on it get to carry on. Why?
      As a contrast, when the widow’s benefit was abolished in 2012, that benefit simply ceased to exist. NZ’s widows were on their own. Why treat residents better than citizens?
      
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      April 6, 2024 4:01pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      I’m wondering if there would be some benefit to NZ in a pensioner living in a cheaper country not needing to use NZ resources (medical care, subsidised this and that) while on the pension?
      
      Are NZers allowed to go on holiday overseas while on the pension? How about a very long holiday? Or do we need to make sure they don’t get to stretch their money or have too much fun by living in a cheap (and/or sane) country with their pension?
      
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      April 6, 2024 9:00pm
  - MCōs
    
    You cannot be a resident of Thailand and collect NZ Superannuation. You have to be ordinarily resident in NZ
    https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/about-this-site/words-we-use.html#O
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:07am
    - The Housekeeper
      
      MCos, I have 2 Thai friends, 56 and 58, both have been on NZ Super since their early 50’s having married far older NZ citizens. Neither are NZ citizens and both have required substantial medical care in NZ.
      
      I really don’t think NZ taxpayers should be picking up the bills for this. If you want to marry a foreign hottie, good on you as long as no taxpayer funds are involved.
      
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      April 6, 2024 4:18pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I moved from Wellington to Christchurch. Never regretted it. However there are cycleways here.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:28am
  - MCōs
    
    I have lived in Timaru, Chch, Wellington & Auckland as well as Bangkok and Pattaya for a few months and London about fifty years ago
    I like Auckland where I am now because of the healthcare and weather plus there’s family around, but it’s a bit sprawly. Too cold down south!
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:22am
- All_on_Red
  
  Try Kerikeri
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerikeri
  It is becoming popular with Retirees and increasingly new subdivisions are being done.
  Warm too
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:09am
  - Paulus
    
    Some years ago on retirement we looked at property in Keri Keri but our Auckland Doctor said it is long way from a decent hospital, being North Shore/Auckland.
    So we live in Tauranga where we have a great hospital.
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:54am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Yes , no major Hospital as its small town, so if you have health issues probably not the place to go.
      Auckland is 50 minutes by plane and the Air Ambulances in Whangarei are very fast if there is an emergency.
      Are you enjoying the Rate burden in Tauranga?
      
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      April 6, 2024 1:17pm
- jedmo
  
  Invercargill is a quiet town with broad streets no cycleways or rainbow nonsense; a 7th floor cocktail bar from which you can gaze over a lovely central park like NY’s; amazing environs; mild in summer not as bad as Dunedin in winter and hey we have insulation and heatpumps nowadays.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:27am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  We left Wellington 10 years ago because I couldn’t stand the cold and wind all winter long (and during spring, autumn, summer…).
  
  I hated driving in Wellington’s busy times (weekends across and out of town).
  
  The only places in the South Island that seemed warm enough… coastal NW Nelson …were getting pricey, so I looked northwards … Napier and beyond.
  I’d been born and raised on NI’s west coast and knew that life along that coast could be a constant battle with wind… so the East coast won out.
  
  We’ve had no regrets with shifting to Gisborne…although the traffic has increased considerably in 10 years.
  
  We do have a number of raised road crossings in town, as well as the rainbowxing. Cars slow down and stop for folks most of the time… No-one seems to be in that deadly rush that characterises Wellington motorists.
  
  Gisborne is a step too far for some folks…basically 3 hrs by car to another city… but only a hassle-free 1hr flight to Aukland or Wellington.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:42am
- Ghost
  
  go for a drive around the South Island, see what appeals to you.
  
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  April 6, 2024 12:04pm
- Jethrod
  
  My wife and I have been in the Hawkes Bay for nearly 2 years (ex Auckland) and it is the best move we have ever made. Mid 70’s now, the people in our town are lovely(HN) and recommended highly.
  There. See you at the Rose and Shamrock one Sunday then!
  
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  April 6, 2024 12:37pm
- Prince
  
  I take your point, but remember
  “All Roads Lead to Rome.”
  
  What was that ?
  You like it ?
  Well you can’t have it !
  
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  April 6, 2024 12:38pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    I told him, Julie, don’t go!
    
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    April 6, 2024 1:11pm
- wsk12345
  
  As a Wellington refugee myself I don’t mind Chch. It is an odd place but the hills and beaches are nice if you’re an outdoors type and there is great access to other places such as Kaikoura, Marlborough, West Coast, the mountains, central O.
  
  But for no cycleway I’d suggest Blenheim. Awful place but close to the sounds, good climate and not overrun with cycleways. Forget Nelson – it’s mental now.
  
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  April 6, 2024 12:57pm
  - MCōs
    
    I’ve stayed a couple of nights in Blenheim
    Cycleways wasn’t the only thing it didn’t have. It was as dull as the second hand name would imply
    At least it’s only a 15min flight & $79 to Wellington
    
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    April 6, 2024 1:16pm
  - jedmo
    
    I’ve found Blenheim climate dire. Couple of hours calm middle of the day, otherwise there’s a barberous gritty wind blowing either up or down the Wairau Valley, good for savignon grapes but…
    
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    April 6, 2024 2:41pm
- wairarapapaul
  
  Whangarei.
  
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  April 6, 2024 1:08pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Do you mean ‘Fungaaaray ?
    
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    April 6, 2024 3:05pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Not Masterton?
    
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    April 6, 2024 8:43pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Who becomes a Government politician in NZ?

Increasingly the New Zealand Parliament is becoming a place for the affluent.
…
Despite diversifying demographics in terms of gender, ethnicity, sexuality and so forth, our central democratic institution is narrowing in terms of social class – becoming a Parliament of the Rich.
…
since 2011 the number of politicians with backgrounds in media and PR has tripled.

https://democracyproject.substack.com/p/the-affluent-pathway-to-parliament
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April 6, 2024 8:55am
- CJames
  
  The other side of this Maggy is that we want our MPs to be successful intelligent people with a wide experience of life. Ones that want to give back to society and improve the life of NZers. Whether we get that is open for much debate. However, many people who meet the aspirational requirements are well educated and wealthy. They usually have parents from upper middle-class backgrounds. There is a lot of research showing that the major proportion of IQ is inherited. And good correlation between IQ and wealth.
  There are numerous exceptions to the above, and I don’t like the increasing trend of politicians who have never had a life outside academia and politics, but what is the alternative method of selecting candidates that will appeal to the electorate? I for one much prefer them to be elected than appointed.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:09am
  - wsk12345
    
    Perhaps let’s have ones that got well off or rich outside parliament instead of having them come to parliament and get rich on the back of nepotism and corruption.
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:26am
    - sirknz
      
      Why are you against Maori politicians? See, this is why we need Maori wards and seats!
      
      – The Mainstream Media
      
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      April 6, 2024 12:17pm
  - Taieri
    
    I for one much prefer them to be elected than appointed.
    ———–
    
    51 list MPs are effectively appointed, not elected.
    
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    April 6, 2024 9:34am
    - Dudley Quaffquaff
      
      Intelligently used, such a system can give us the best of both worlds. The fundamental problem with having a Parluament composed entirely of elected people, is that the qualities a person needs to be successful at getting elected (charismatic, responsive, attention grabbing, says what voters want to hear) are rarely found in the same person as the qualities needed to be a good Minister (nerdy enough to dig into the details, really understand what the problem actually is and fairly assess the costs and benefits of potential solutions, dogged enough to keep driving actions even when the media’s lost interest and wants instead to hear about the next shiny new thing).
      
      What you do, then, is put the former types up for election and put the latter types on the list. Then you’ll have a Parliament with both types, both aware of voters preferences and priorities and with the capability to work out how best to address them.
      
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      April 6, 2024 12:30pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    @CJames @ 9:09AM
    
    Did you overlook STV, C, or do you prefer another system?
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:55am
- herb1
  
  Last word second line , spelling mistake Maggy . First letter E instead of A.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:15am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  How can Parliament simultaneously be increasingly for the affluent and increasingly of media/ PR background? The latter (media, anyway) are always moaning about not having money.
  
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  April 6, 2024 1:14pm
Maggy Wassilieff

You really have to wonder at the analytical skills of our journalists.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2024/04/number-of-fleeing-driver-deaths-crashes-rose-after-police-abandoned-non-pursuit-policy.html

Check the data provided in the graphs in this article.

Why does this key bit of information lurk somewhere in the middle of the article?

Cording also cautioned comparing the pre-2020 data, and the 2023 data to the years in the middle.

She said Covid-lockdowns and less people on the roads would have had an impact.
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April 6, 2024 9:09am
- CJames
  
  Part of the reason why people take low paying journalists jobs is that they weren’t bright enough to pass STEM subjects.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:17am
Benedict Yu

So predictable 🙄.

Chistchurch cathedral rebuild was budgeted at $103 million. Now it is $248 million.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/350237199/christ-church-cathedral-restoration-could-be-mothballed

The Christchurch City Council doesn’t have the money. I expect if Nicola Willis is asked she will give them the “Cook Strait Ferry Treatment”. 😂

“The rebuild has also been pushed out by four years, to be completed in 2031.”

So who believes that over the next seven years there will be no more cost increases?
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April 6, 2024 9:16am
- imalwaysright
  
  I don’t think Jesus would approve.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:45am
  - Jethrod
    
    He would turf out the money changers and merchants; there problem solved
    
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    April 6, 2024 12:45pm
- thirteenstars
  
  A river of money flowed and is still flowing through Christchurch, all controlled by bureaucrats, so none of this is a surprise. More than a decade on and still so much to do.
  
  But that’s government time. It stretches out to the horizon and far beyond.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:23am
- mandk
  
  Yes, it was predictable.
  
  The people who wanted the cathedral to be rebuilt should have been asked to pay for it in full.
  
  The cathedral had no architectural merit. It was a pale and ugly imitation of the European gothic cathedrals. The Catholic cathedral, which was demolished, had more merit.
  
  And, on top of this, as a C19th building, it was not fit for C21st needs.
  
  No more public money should be given to it.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:55am
  - Jethrod
    
    As a point of interest, what have the Catholics done about a new building/church?
    
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    April 6, 2024 1:02pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      They are currently consulting their folk on a site for a new cathedral.
      
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      April 6, 2024 2:59pm
- PeeJay
  
  I’ve noted a bit above on this – I know some folks connected to it and the risk was so high that they struggled to get the contract together with the main contractor. That should have been a major red flag for the project – but other peoples money eh?
  
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  April 6, 2024 11:31am
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  I am sure government money was already given, not one more cent
  
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  April 6, 2024 12:29pm
I remember when

Vermont is considering charging companies their share of climate change damage according to their share of emissions produced.
This has been justified as a result of the Vermont Flood 2023, July 10-11.
Over this two day period 3 to 9 inches of rain fell over two days.
The rainfall totals the previous month had resulted in the land becoming saturated which added to be problem.

The Great Vermont Flood of 1927, November 3-4.
Two days of torrential rainfall which followed the land becoming saturated the previous month.

Wonder if they are going to charge arrears?
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April 6, 2024 9:17am
- CJames
  
  The solution is for all the oil companies to shut off all petrol stations in Vermont and ban future sales there. As well as that, shut down all fossil fuel banning power stations and stop importing electricity generated by them in neighboring states. How long would the virtue signalling politicians last then?
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:31am
  - John Loveridge
    
    Shades of the Canada Google/Facebook news debacle. Look how that worked out.
    
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    April 6, 2024 12:12pm
- MCōs
  
  Not only Vermont
  https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/vermont-advances-bill-requiring-fossil-fuel-companies-pay-108724533
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:38am
- Chris Nisbet
  
  Fossil fuels have possibly been the greatest thing for humanity ever.
  Without them we’d still be living short, brutal lives, and we’d be cold to boot.
  These people who want us to be rid of them are a menace to us all.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:43am
Swifty

Todd Motors original building in Heriot, western Otago, still standing (see comments):

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/UQe9atL8vy7GofXx/?mibextid=WC7FNe

A nice little piece of NZ history.
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April 6, 2024 9:25am
MCōs

An interesting analysis of the incident whereby the IDF killed seven aid workers
From my understanding they thought incorrectly one was an Hamas gunman and they were prepared to kill everyone to get him
There was a gunman, but he was in another vehicle apparently
https://x.com/sfrantzman/status/1776210555012788484?s=61&t=yFkzCNMWRCaVt1p5eRxUog
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April 6, 2024 9:32am
- Che Guava
  
  Ah yes, the “we thought it was Hamas, so we murdered everyone just to make sure” pretext. Almost as bad is that many people seem to believe this ridiculous justification.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:45am
- CJames
  
  The contrary argument is that it is known that Hamas used UN and Aid workers to ferry them around. The West knows this but ignores it. Just like all the UN people that were Hamas terrorists. Were any of the car occupants members of Hamas?
  And as the article in Spiked points out, the West are total hypocrites complaining about civilian deaths in Gaza.
  https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/04/05/israel-is-being-subjected-to-obscene-double-standards/
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:03am
  - Che Guava
    
    “The contrary argument is that it is known that Hamas used UN and Aid workers to ferry them around.”
    
    Are they “known” to do this, or is this just one more in a long series of unevidenced claims made by the Israelis to justify them doing whatever they like and then blaming their victims for the fate visited upon them by the Israelis?
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:26am
    - Burtland
      
      so you have to stop and ask them kindly whether theyre a card carrying hamas fighter AND have this verified by the BBC and the UN before returning fire
      
      suggest you put your red beret back on and go show them how it should be done
      
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      April 6, 2024 11:31am
      - Che Guava
        
        Burt, the Israelis are the bad guys here. No amount of obfuscation and denial of the facts will change that.
        
        “…so you have to stop and ask them kindly whether theyre a card carrying hamas fighter AND have this verified by the BBC and the UN before returning fire”
        
        Actually, the IDF being fired at would be a good indication that those people doing the firing are hostiles, which would legitimise a response. This would seem to a good criterion and in accordance with any normal rules of engagement.
        
        However, the pattern with the Israelis seems to be the carte blanche killing civilians and non-combatants who posed no threat whatsoever and then excusing their wanton killing of thousands of women and children by claiming that the victims “were Hamas,” without any evidence whatsoever.
        
        There’s a good reason why the Israelis, for rhetorical reasons, claim that everyone in Gaza is either Hamas or an enabler thereof, because that gives them the green light to go in and kill all of them.
        
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        April 6, 2024 4:43pm
    - Paulus
      
      Why does very little of the food aid actually reaches the poor left in Gaza ?
      Because when the trucks arrive shooting takes place and the drivers run, sensibly, so Hamas drivers take over and deliver to their warehouses for control of the whole media scenario, rather than those starving.
      
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      April 6, 2024 1:18pm
      - Che Guava
        
        “Why does very little of the food aid actually reaches the poor left in Gaza ?”
        
        Because the IDF has been maintaining a blockade of Palestinian territory for years.
        
        And when you say “left in Gaza” you implicitly mean left in Gaza despite the ethnic cleansing going on there.
        
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        April 6, 2024 4:34pm
- imalwaysright
  
  The Israeli government will murder anyone that gets in their way. That includes anyone here.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:38am
  - Burtland
    
    have hamas released the hostages yet – thought not
    
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    April 6, 2024 11:32am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Have Hamas agreed to the ceasefire proposals yet? – thought not.
      
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      April 6, 2024 1:00pm
      - Che Guava
        
        Why should they? Why must the Palestinians accept whatever self-serving proposal that is demanded by Israel?
        
        Agreements are about coming to the table understanding that there are conflicting interests at play, and reaching an accommodation. Israel “offering” a deal that benefits them while shafting the Palestinians is not likely to be accepted, for self-explanatory reasons.
        
        However, it gives the impression to those who lack understanding that Israel wants a deal while giving them licence to continue the killing.
        
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        April 6, 2024 5:12pm
  - Che Guava
    
    imalwaysight
    You and I are two of the only clear thinkers on this. I have no issue with anyone supporting Israel if they like, but spare us the tortured faux moral justifications for how the Israelis behave. It’s about what benefits Israel, not any universal moral standard of behaviour. Thus, the dead women and children only have themselves to blame.
    
    If we want to understand why “anti-semitism” is allegedly on the rise, we only need to assess the behaviour of the Jews in Israel, rather than dismiss the “anti-semites” who are just reacting to Israel’s actions.
    
    One only has to look at the historical record of the conflict to see that the Israelis have always been the aggressors and that are completely ruthless about how they go about things, because they feel justified in imposing their will on others.
    
    There’s a good reason why people want to pretend that this started on Oct 7th, because the more you know and understand, the more obvious that most of Israel’s problems can be explained as responses to their own actions.
    
    This “poor little Israel acting in self-defence in a sea of irrational hostility” schtick is as counter to reality as anything Orwell came out with.
    
    I could respect the Israelis if they just came out and conceded the obvious truth, which is that they want their Jewish ethnostate and to subjugate or negate their non-Jewish neighbours at any cost. But that truth is pretty hard to sell, so they have to pretend that they are victims with no other option.
    
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    April 6, 2024 4:58pm
    - KH
      
      If folk here are interested in the survival of Israel they would advise Israel to stop their stupid aggro approach to everything.
      Pretty much they are shooting themselves in the foot.
      
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      April 7, 2024 8:33am
- Paulus
  
  It has been reported that was not a Hamas gunman identified early on in top of one of the ready to leave convoy – but got off before they left. ?
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:58am
- kowtow
  
  ‘There was a gunman, but he was in another vehicle apparently’
  
  If , if that is the case and knowing how these terrorist entities and enclaves operate , based on experience ,why the hell do these do gooders think they can make any meaningful difference in such hell holes .
  
  Other than having “interesting” dinner party stories for their adoring minions .
  
  In fact these ngo’s are putting their employees /volunteers in harm’s way for no real benefit to anyone.
  
  Including and especially the alleged straving masses of Gaza , who’re in the situation they are in cos they voted for Hamas .
  
  Democracy matters.
  
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  April 6, 2024 2:46pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    I notice that you are giving no actual moral justification for any of these positions, at least none beyond “Might is Right” which I have seen before but don’t follow.
    In previous ages, feeding the hungry especially at risk to your own life was seen as a morally righteous deed.
    “For I was hungry, and you fed me. I was thirsty, and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger, and you invited me into your home. I was naked, and you gave me clothing. I was sick, and you cared for me. I was in prison, and you visited me.”
    Matthew 25:35-40
    
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    April 6, 2024 7:44pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Are we ashamed of this statistic?

“In New Zealand, we have almost 400-plus retail crimes every day,” said Jithin Chittibomma, chairperson of the Sandringham Business Association in Auckland. “About a quarter of those are towards the Indian community, which is something to be ashamed of.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/indonz/513552/indian-community-disappointed-by-government-s-quarterly-action-plan-on-crime#

Or do we treat our Indian small business owners as collateral damage?
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April 6, 2024 9:32am
- Che Guava
  
  But it’s not because they’re Indian in itself, it’s because, first, we have a shit load of Indians in the country due to our replacement migration policy, and second, a lot of them run dairies and the like. Given these factors, as well as the disproportionately Maori crime problem, you’re bound to end up with a lot of Indians being subjected to unwanted indigenous cultural experiences.
  
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  April 6, 2024 9:42am
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    Che, no doubt you will be able to explain this is because of the children of Abraham?
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:44am
    - Che Guava
      
      Well, now that you mention it, they have always been conspicuous proponents, organisers and advocates of ethnic minority causes and mass non-White immigration (except into Israel, naturally), because they don’t want to be 1 or 2% among an 80 or 90% majority. Multiculturalism suits them better, as a minority among many minorities.
      
      So yeah, derivatively, one of the reasons Indian shopkeepers are being done over in Auckland dairies is because of the policy preferences of the children of Abraham, as you call them.
      
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      April 6, 2024 11:07am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

January 6 Committee Threatened Former Sec Def to Keep Quiet or Else.
Miller testified before the January 6 Committee, led by Liz Cheney, that Trump had authorized the deployment of National Guard troops on January 6th, which completely exonerates Trump of all claims of “insurrection.” But Miller says the committee aggressively forced him to keep his mouth shut.
Trump is going to have fun once he wins. The Liz Cheney and the committee should be prosecuted, but a lot of evidence has now been destroyed.

https://freedomeagledaily.com/theteapartydaily/january-6-committee-threatened-former-secdef-to-keep-quiet-or-else/?
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April 6, 2024 9:38am
- All_on_Red
  
  ‘The former J6 Select Committee apparently withheld Mr. Ornato’s critical witness testimony from the American people because it contradicted their pre-determined narrative. Mr. Ornato’s testimony proves what Mr. Meadows has said all along: President Trump did in fact offer 10,000 National Guard troops to secure the U.S. Capitol, which was turned down,” said the Georgia Republican.’
  https://thefederalist.com/2024/03/08/exclusive-liz-cheney-january-6-committee-suppressed-exonerating-evidence-of-trumps-push-for-national-guard/
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:19am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It was Pelosi who stopped the troops. She was in on the act, to the extent of helping her daughter to film it.
    The truth will come out one day.
    
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    April 6, 2024 11:28am
- RichardX
  
  Attempting to rehabilitate Otto’s unproven claims by changing the context is similar to admitted liar Kari Lake.
  
  Otto claimed multiple times that Trump asked for / requested 20 or 22 thousand troops then 10,000 troops and Pelosi refused his requests.
  
  The partisan Freedom Eagle Daily article posted by Otto offers no evidence in support of its claims and is typical of Otto’s sources. The whole saga is reminiscent of his support of Kari Lake based on Billings Report articles.
  
  In fact the Freedom Eagle Daily article is factually incorrect. One could say it is “fake news”.
  
  This is important because Miller’s testimony directly contradicts the final report issued by Liz Cheney and her lying friends on the committee. The final report states that President Trump never called for the deployment of the National Guard on January 6th. This lie was used to help shape a false narrative that Trump planned, encouraged, and enacted an “insurrection” at the US Capitol. The entire story was a lie and Chris Miller’s sworn testimony—which the committee deleted to hide its tracks—tells the truth of the matter.
  
  Chirs Miller’s testimony is available in transcript with the audio of it used in many you tube videos.
  
  https://archive.org/details/january-6th-committee-witness-testimony-20220114-christopher-c-miller
  
  As usual, AOR adds his support and continues to miss the point.
  
  The quote from the partisan Federalist article to which you linked does not support Otto as overhearing a conversation where Mark Meadows pushed the DC Mayor to request troops is not the same thing as Trump requesting troops twice and twice being refused by Pelosi.
  
  “Deputy Chief of Staff Anthony Ornato’s first transcribed interview with the committee was conducted on January 28, 2022. In it, he told Cheney and her investigators that he overheard White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows push Washington D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser to request as many National Guard troops as she needed to protect the city.
  
  The quote from the partisan Federalist article to which you linked does not support Otto as Trump suggesting 10,000 troops would be needed is not the same thing as Trump requesting troops twice and twice being refused by Pelosi.
  
  He also testified President Trump had suggested 10,000 would be needed to keep the peace at the public rallies and protests scheduled for January 6, 2021. Ornato also described White House frustration with Acting Secretary of Defense Christopher Miller’s slow deployment of assistance on the afternoon of January 6, 2021.
  
  Just to remind you of the claims so you can get it right next time.
  
  Steve Otto(North Shore)
  CNN told you that?
  Trump did not. He had previously tried to stop it by wanting 20 thousand, then 10 thousand National Guards troops. Pelosi stopped it – she knew.
  
  MARCH 13, 2023 11:08AM
  
  Again
  
  Steve Otto(North Shore)
  What is never reported is the infiltration of the Trump rally was on social media 2 weeks before Jan 6th. Pelosi knew, Trump knew. Trump wanted 22,000 National Guard Troops for security. Pelosi refused. 10,000 Troops and she still refused.
  Pelosi knew it was going to get nasty. Even helped her daughter setting her up to video it all.
  10,000 Troops would have stopped it in it’s tracks. Fact checkers say the request for Troops is false. Note, they write items about the false claim but it is all wild goose chases, naming other people that say false. The TDS is strong. Troop request was real.
  
  AUGUST 25, 2023 10:42AM
  
  As recently as last month
  
  Steve Otto(North Shore)
  …
  Trump asked for National Guard help twice (20,000 then 10,000)
  Pelosi refused. She was even allowing her daughter to set up filming the yet to happen riot. Pelosi knew it was going to happen as it did.
  There is your snake in the grass – Pelosi.
  …
  MARCH 1, 2024 12:04PM
  
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  April 6, 2024 11:37am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Richard
    I wasnt supporting Steves claims but rather adding additional information showing that the J6 Committee was corrupt due to omission of information in their reports.
    Your fixation with Steve and especially Pelosi seems to prevent you seeing that.
    Regarding Pelosi, the fact remails she was in charge. Ultimately it was her call.
    It is possible that information will come out showing her denying the extra troops but I agree we havent seen it yet.
    
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    April 6, 2024 12:06pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      AOR, ignore him. He has severe TDS.
      
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      April 6, 2024 12:30pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        The thing is in your post at 9.38 you don’t even mention Pelosi. And neither do I
        He is the one missing the point which is Trump did ask for Troops, (which is against the narrative that he didnt and claimed by many), and that the J6 Committee destroyed testimony- like Ornato being a witness to Miller saying Trump wanted troops.
        We all know Pelosi is a corrupt old hag and whilst there is nothing to prove she stopped the troops I personally wouldnt put it past her to put the DC Police in harms way for political purposes.
        She is that bad.
        It is possible the destroyed evidence contained testimony proving she did.
        The Republicans do have a lot of hard drives which they are still trying to unlock so we will see.
        
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        April 6, 2024 12:58pm
      - RichardX
        
        AOR, you state “Trump did ask for Troops”
        
        Provide the evidence.
        Who did he ask?
        When did he ask?
        Why were the troops not forthcoming?
        
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        April 6, 2024 1:22pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Richard.
        It was widely reported at the time that Trump asked for troops. You obviously weren’t watching Fox news as the events unfolded.
        Also that Pelosi cancelled their deployment.
        
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        April 6, 2024 1:59pm
      - RichardX
        
        Beckett,
        Can you provide evidence?
        Who did Trump ask?
        When did Trump ask?
        Why were the troops not forthcoming?
        What was the source of the report you claim to have seen on Fox?
        
        Or are you as gullible as Otto & AOR and believe things without evidence when you see them on the internet?
        
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        April 6, 2024 2:13pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        [Mod – unnecessary]
        
        No, I watched it on TV Fox news as I stated. I am no authority on the situation – I just use my eyes & ears.
        
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        April 6, 2024 3:09pm
      - RichardX
        
        Beckett,
        
        You believe without evidence which is not surprising.
        
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        April 6, 2024 3:27pm
- RichardX
  
  This may help as it includes the link to the audio of Miller’s testimony.
  
  https://www.newsweek.com/chris-miller-donald-trump-deploy-jan-6-troops-capitol-riot-contradiction-testimony-1728207
  
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  April 6, 2024 11:43am
- virtualmark
  
  Steve,
  
  Here is the most authoritative account I’ve ever seen of the “Trump wants the National Guard on January 6” theory.
  
  https://www.justsecurity.org/93316/anatomy-of-a-conspiracy-theory-and-a-smear-still-no-evidence-of-trump-order-for-10000-guard-on-january-6th/
  
  It shows that Trump floated the idea, but that it wasn’t taken further than just being an idea in a conversation.
  
  It also points out the pragmatic reality that while the President can order the DC National Guard to be deployed, the DC NG doesn’t have anything like 10,000 troops and so if that’s the number Trump wanted he would have to have worked with the Governors of neighbouring states … which he didn’t.
  
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  April 6, 2024 1:35pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Pelosi stopped the whole thing in it’s tracks. She was in on the deal with the FBI and the CIA mid Dec 2020.
    The author of your link was also in on the coverup:
    “The author served as a senior professional staff member on the January 6th Committee.” Senior staff member of the J6 committee. Remember that committee and who was on it? 120% TDS idiots.
    So mid Dec (when the infiltration on the Trump rally was on social media) was plenty of time to organise 10,000 troops. This is America, not Eketahuna.
    Remember, Trump was still POTUS even though as Speaker Pelosi had the last call on security.
    Of course there is no evidence – you don’t find evidence on the TDS media.
    
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    April 6, 2024 3:32pm
    - RichardX
      
      Talk about doubling down.
      
      You admit there is no evidence but now your claim it is not just that Trump requested troops twice prior to Jan 6 and was refused twice by Pelosi but that there was a conspiracy between the Democrat Speaker, the FBI and the CIA to stage a violent riot at the Capitol that almost prevented the Democrat candidate from being confirmed as the next President.
      
      I have never understood why anyone who wanted Biden as President would try to stop the process that was taking place at the Capitol on Jan 6.
      
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      April 6, 2024 7:50pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Richard,
        
        Steve is just repeating a popular MAGA conspiracy theory … that Trump wanted the National Guard, but Pelosi refused it, and so January 6 happened.
        
        Reality is that:
        * People involved in the Trump administration have testified under oath that Trump floated the idea but never followed through.
        * Trump, as President, had the power to call out the DC National Guard had he so chosen to, but not any other National Guards (well, only if he had formally federalised them).
        * Pelosi, as Speaker of the House, has no authority to call out the DC National Guard **or stop Trump calling them out**. Pelosi had no power to refuse calling out the National Guard.
        * But she did have authority to say whether they could be on the grounds of the Capitol.
        * Both Pelosi and General Milley (Chair Joint Chiefs) were against having the National Guard called out, because their view was Trump intended to use the January 6 protests as a pre-text to invoke the Insurrection Act, and use that to suspend the approval of the election results.
        
        All of that is covered in the testimony to the January 6 committee.
        
        MAGA have a schizophrenic interpretation of Jan 6. It’s alternatively an Antifa protest, a conspiracy between the Dems/FBI/CIA/lizard people etc, or else the people charged & convicted of crimes are hostages or patriots etc. To be MAGA means you have to suspend rational consistent thought. All cults require that sort of blind devotion.
        
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        April 6, 2024 8:23pm
    - virtualmark
      
      Steve,
      
      I know you want to believe.
      
      But that article includes copious links to testimony, given under oath, that shows your theory is wrong.
      
      I know you want to think the Jan 6 committee is an evil conspiracy. But what should we then make of all the GOP Trump admin witnesses who testified? Were they lying? If so why?
      
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      April 6, 2024 8:32pm
Rusty

We had the coldest March in 10 years. Of course the teachers didn’t tell the school kids this yesterday.
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April 6, 2024 9:43am
- Cassandra
  
  I see the kids wagging school were also complaining about a puru government, Palestine, for rangatahi, for te tiriti and, presumably, free KFC. I’m all for Palestine – once Hamas has been destroyed I think a two state setup is needed. With a large US led army to guarantee the peace.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:08am
  - thirteenstars
    
    The mask is off. Little activists learning to “organise” and “strike” for nebulous causes.
    
    The intersectionality on display is instructive: Climate, Palestine and Colonisation. No doubt all approved with the Rainbow Tick.
    
    It can’t be fixed, folks. Public provision of education is dead. Charter schools and funding parents directly is the only solution.
    
    I’m not looking forward to seeing Erica Stanford at the next election trying to sell tiny, incremental improvements in attendance and other such pointless things.
    
    The rot is deep and the resistance is real. Can’t. Be. Fixed.
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:29am
    - artemisia
      
      “Can’t. Be. Fixed.” How about applying the 80/20 rule to schools. Active teaching and support for the 80%, ‘palliative care’ for the 20%. Approx percentages only of course.
      
      At the moment seems to be the other way around.
      
      The 20% get their own classrooms, beanbags for Africa, teaching and reports on progress available, a clear pathway back to the 80%, ex-drill sergeant to keep order and run the exercise periods.
      
      Not expecting it to happen but the old 80/20 rule is still a decent yardstick for where to put cost and effort. Or not.
      
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      April 6, 2024 11:27am
    - Burtland
      
      Government funded indoctrination of the kids by neomarxists is clearly alive and well.
      
      Can’t. Be. Fixed. ? We need a Javier Milei not a Chris Luxon
      
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      April 6, 2024 12:00pm
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      [deleted] so you are already suggesting Stanford had failed, what bloody show do we have, Hipkins could be back as min of education before you know it. His mummy will still be saying Biology and Physics are no longer part of science.
      
      Give her a chance, already teacher are very happy with the improved concentration with kids since banning cell phones, and they say attendance is up. Now they are moving to parents responsibility to make sure kids go too school
      
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      April 6, 2024 12:36pm
  - Che Guava
    
    “I’m all for Palestine – once Hamas has been destroyed…”
    
    This is delusional. Resistance to Israel is never going to be destroyed, because the more carnage Israel dishes out, the more they are guaranteeing future retaliation and blow back for their actions (by “Hamas” or by any other group with any other label you want to put on them).
    
    “Hamas” is just the current name for Palestinian resistance. Israeli action and Arab reaction is the story of the region for the last 100 or more years. If nothing changes then this will never change.
    
    Do you seriously think that they’ll eventually get down to the last 4 Hamas members, drone strike them like in the clip I posted the other day, and then that’s that? Because this will never happen for the reasons above, if the stated goal is the impossible task of “destroying Hamas” then the Myth of Sisyphus comes to mind.
    
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    April 6, 2024 10:57am
    - imalwaysright
      
      People used to watch war movies for entertainment .
      Now they watch wars.
      
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      April 6, 2024 1:42pm
    - marleybob
      
      What was the name of Israel three thousand years ago. Why do think it should be another name ? now
      
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      April 6, 2024 5:19pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Dan Bongino wiith a clip about DOMs (Digital Optical Modules) at the South Pole responsible for the Christchurch earthquake. I don’t know who the whistleblower is.
The Ice Cube South Pole Neutrino Observatory.
This is weird.
51 min in.

https://rumble.com/v4nf6sb-is-the-fbi-spying-on-whistleblowers-ep.-2222-04042024.html
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April 6, 2024 10:07am
- Ghost
  
  Sounds like it would be Eric Hecker from Steven Greer’s press club event
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDY7t6HihCw&t=1s
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:19am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It is. There is a lot happening on this planet that we just don’t know about.
    Currently in Alaska. Wonder if our Alaskan host families have heard of him? There is one hell of a lot of military stuff going on in Alaska.
    The Opperman Report. Hecker is interviewed:
    
    https://www.spreaker.com/episode/eric-j-hecker-earthquake-weapons-in-antarctica–57703607
    
    Telescope or earthquake generator?
    
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    April 6, 2024 11:54am
    - imalwaysright
      
      Hecker was very suspicious of Opperman. Paranoid that he might be a G man.
      Didn’t end well, ill look him up in other interviews. Thanks.
      
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      April 6, 2024 2:58pm
Ghost

Damn.

Late last year Barry Soper was in an induced coma at Auckland Hospital and his wife — Newstalk ZB radio host and Herald columnist Heather du Plessis-Allan — was starting to plan his funeral.He’d suffered heart failure, multiple operations and organ failure. The veteran broadcaster — father of their 2-year-old son Iggy as well as five adult children — was so critically ill she did not expect him to recover.

Paywalled article
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April 6, 2024 10:11am
Cassandra

For those not familiar with Maori paru means dirty. Puru is a bull. When one thinks of it, how can there be a Maori word for bull? Why not use “bull”?
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April 6, 2024 10:12am
- imalwaysright
  
  Laptop computer: rorohiko pona
  
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  April 6, 2024 11:16am
- wsk12345
  
  I was reading about the elk and dear management by private hunting in Fiordland and my partner noted that there was cross breeding between the species. Does that mean that a deer-elk cross would be indigenous? And forest and bird wants to eradicate the lot.
  
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  April 6, 2024 1:11pm
- miltonF
  
  “Why not use “bull”?”
  
  Easy answer. Because there is no letter “L” in the Māori alphabet.
  
  The Māori alphabet only has 15 letters, compared to the modern Latin alphabet, which contains 26 letters. This is why many words cannot be directly used in Maori and pidgin words are invented in their place. This is also why the vocabulary is very small and many words have multiple, vastly different meanings in different contexts.
  
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  April 6, 2024 6:27pm
Maggie Pie

And I wonder how long it’ll be before Chloe and the rest of her ilk, will have all our Primary age kids wagging school in a protest march…… chanting “Kill the Joos!”

https://twitter.com/PronouncedHare/status/1776093186240434355

(A bestie from tennis has withdrawn both her children from Kadimah in favor
of home schooling. The poor kids literally fear for their lives 🙁 )

A Climate Change protest? My bum!!
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April 6, 2024 10:14am
- Che Guava
  
  “A bestie from tennis has withdrawn both her children from Kadimah in favor
  of home schooling. The poor kids literally fear for their lives.”
  
  They probably fear for their lives because their mother is so neurotic that she tells them that “Free Palestine” really means “Kill the Joos” which, while it serves an obvious political purpose and helps to justify Israel’s behaviour, is a false equivalence.
  
  In their hysterical rhetoric, Jews and teen climate activists are about on par, commonly telling us that the end is always nigh despite there being no supporting evidence, but give us your money and support anyway.
  
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  April 6, 2024 10:46am
- imalwaysright
  
  “…Chloe and the rest of her ilk, will have all our Primary age kids wagging school…”
  
  Amazing how quickly these scumbags have relegated parents to spectator status.
  
  Thirty years ago they would have had their arses handed to them, especially the teachers.
  
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  April 6, 2024 1:32pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Sooo troo! The 4 greatest threats to New Zealand are Socialism, Labour,
    The Greens, and the Retards who support these ideologies.
    
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    April 6, 2024 2:00pm
PurplePen

It occurred to me that it’s timely for the govt to legislate that a minister can fire at will their ministry CEO after any election. The rationale is shown in the behaviour of the current state sector – leaks, public push-back on govt policy, games being played with cut-backs. In essence this public sector has shown itself to be wholly unprofessional, immature and highly biased. The first two are inexcusable. As regards bias, you should be mature and professional enough to hold your personal views in check.

We haven’t had to have this arrangement as our public sector has in the past been unbiased etc. Australia has something similar and certainly the USA has an extreme version. In the USA case it is because they are so partisan. This is the direction our public service has chosen for themselves and there therefore needs to be consequences and a change.
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April 6, 2024 10:17am
- PeeJay
  
  Easier solution would surely be to appoint CE’s and the exec teams on fixed term contracts, closely mirroring the parliamentary terms? Excellent CE’s and exec teams would have a good chance of being retained.
  
  I know this could result in politicisation of the public sector, but really, we have this already but it’s just one sided. Why not be honest about this and allow either side to actually install leadership teams that will execute the electoral mandate of the government of the day? As you say, we’ve long since moved beyond the unbiased days of yesteryear.
  
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  April 6, 2024 11:39am
Pineapple Lumps

Yesterday on KB in the article about the inappropriately appointment Albanese has made for the GG there was some commentary about getting rid of Labour appointments here in NZ. Coster and Orr being two examples of these. There was a pushback that this was American style partisan politics and we should not engage in this in NZ. There are a few things I would like to add to this debate:
1. Political appointees terms should be limited and not go beyond the election by more than 12 months. Labour has weaponised extending appointments, to either reward the fealty of their appointees or severely inhibit the new government from inacting meaningful change. Adrian Orr is the clearest example of this. He collaborated with Robertson to double or debt to gdp, to fuel unproductive and reckless spending and delivered ongoing inflation. So this is a legislative change that the current government should enact. If the appointee is the best person for the job then they can be retained, but the new government gets to select the people they want to work with in a manner that enables the smooth transition of power.
2. The elite political class on all sides of the political divide will argue against this. Why? Because they and their families do well from political appointments. An example of this is Mahuta installing ex-Nat Tolley in Tauranga to rule over the people in complete breach of democratic principles.
3. Economic and fiscal responsibilities. All politicians and public servants must have a responsibility to use the taxpayers money responsibly. There should be legislative accountability and criminality around this. It should include limits around taking on debt, the value and length of contracts that can be signed. As an example, the 5year employment contracts given to Te Whatu Ora staff is unprecedented. The long-term leases taken on offices etc. This shows we need legislative protections against uninhibited and unaccountable public service spending.

The claim was made that NZ has one of the lowest levels of corruption in the world. These are unprovable claims. What we have seen over the past 5 years is increasing levels of non-transparency, a servant media, economic destruction by our ruling class at unprecedented levels, nepotistic appointments, increasingly different application of laws and rules based on race, gender identity etc, politicians not holding themselves to account to live by the highest standards. Doubling down and lying (I refude that …) when caught in wrongdoing rather than apologising and resigning.

Sadly the standards in our country are declining and the level of corruption is increasing. Our political class reflect the moral decline of our society at large. So increased legislation is required to tighten the rules. But if we really want NZ to lack corruption then this will need to come from a moral revival at the grassroots level of our society.
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April 6, 2024 10:39am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “As an example, the 5year employment contracts given to Te Whatu Ora staff is unprecedented.”
  
  Fixed term contracts are common. Are you saying that on their disestablishment, these folk were paid 5 years salary? I would like to see the evidence. It would astonish me.
  
  In the public service a fixed term contract means that you say bye at the end of the fixed term. It doesn’t mean that if made redundant you walk away with the salary you would be paid over the fixed term.
  
  On your broader points about political appointments is not the answer to “stop”. Don’t appoint politicians as ambassadors.
  
  As for the Governor of the Reserve Bank, I would not call him political, just not very good. The Reserve Bank Act does not provide for his dismissal. Same with the police commissioner. Do you really want to give Ministers the power to dismiss these people without cause?
  
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  April 6, 2024 11:08am
  - Pineapple Lumps
    
    Ben – thanks for your response.
    
    From my experience of fixed term contracts the term must be predicated on a specific need eg a project that will take 12 months. If the requirement is ongoing for 5 years it is unlikely to meet the requirements for a fixed term. It would be successfully argued by the employee that the role is permanent. So then why have these inappropriate contracts? Plus neither you nor I know what redundancy provisions are embedded in these contracts. From my perspective these contracts look designed to advantage the employee not the public of nz. Happy to see evidence to the contrary!
    
    have these had never heard of a 5 year fixed contract prior to these in the Māori Health Authority. public service So redundancy from a fixed term contract is almost unheard of. The contract generally only ends at the end of the fixed term. It is aIf it is ended prior then I have no visionemployment law a fixed term contract doesn’t allow for redundancy.
    
    Do you really want to give Ministers the power to dismiss these people without cause? No you didn’t read what I proposed. Ministers and the public should not be saddled with the prior governments appointees. Contracts should be set to expire 12 months after the election. The Minister would then have the ability to appoint their choice which could include reappointment of the incumbent. Surely this is better than saddling governments with the political appointments of their predecessors for the entire parliamentary term?
    
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    April 6, 2024 12:07pm
    - Pineapple Lumps
      
      Please ignore the middle paragraph – I’m getting like G from Dunedin.
      
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      April 6, 2024 12:42pm
- sirknz
  
  Regarding your comment about “low levels of corruption”, it seems like everyone in this country skips over the word ‘perceived’ when talking about what is actually measured when the media proudly trumpets this fact every year.
  
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  April 6, 2024 12:31pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.

TOW Conic for high school kids Part 38.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/analysis-treaty-of-waitangi-comic-for-high-school-students-has-been-quietly-brainwashing-away-since-2018-part-38/
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April 6, 2024 10:43am
- I remember when
  
  Post 1840 Maori were guaranteed possession of their land but had virtually no authority available to them when encroachment occurred.
  Parliament represented the English population with no Maori members.
  Largely the exact opposite of the present situation.
  
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  April 6, 2024 12:14pm
mogg

We need more colourful language in Parliament, just like Congresswoman MTG, rep for Georgia. On camera she tells BBC reporter to ‘fuck off’ and David Cameron to ‘kiss my ass’
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April 6, 2024 11:00am
Paulus

Albo has appointed a new Australian GG being an ex Labour Ministerial staffer.
But best for the job, and she is assumed to be a Woman.
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April 6, 2024 11:02am
Maggie Pie

If you’re a fan of Ricky Gervais (and who isn’t?) – you’ll love this! 😀

Ricky and his business partner have launched their own ‘VODKA’ brand,
but the wokesters at BBC have have banned his television advertisement….

https://twitter.com/rickygervais/status/1765392019684229500
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April 6, 2024 11:16am
Chris Nisbet

Next time a child demands we rid ourselves of fossil fuels, ask them what they’d rather have when the power goes out after a massive storm.
A) A few dozen football field-sized solar facilities shipped in to provide some electricity (during the daytime). All hauled in by horse and cart of course, because there’s nowhere to charge the non-existent electric trucks.
B) A few generator sets set up within a few hours to provide 24hr power.

Actually, wasn’t there a time a few years back when Auckland central was largely run by generators for a few weeks due to some problem with transmission lines? Thank God for FF.

Here’s another one. A hurricane is on its way and you only have a few hours to drive a few hundred kms to get out of its path. Do you…
A) Put the EV on charge for a few hours before you take off, hoping you won’t need to find an unoccupied charger along the way before the storm hits.
B) Fill up the tank of the petrol car and get as far away as you want, knowing that it only takes a few minutes to fill if it starts to run low.
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April 6, 2024 11:54am
- Don Beckett
  
  Actually there was a cruise ship in the wharf, so they hooked up the city supply to the cruise ship which helped make up the short fall.
  
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  April 6, 2024 2:15pm
  - AitchW
    
    Not to be pedantic, but my recollection is that it was one of Union Shipping’s ro-ros, either the Rotoiti or the Rotorua. I’m happy to be corrected.
    
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    April 6, 2024 3:09pm
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      It was one of the BIG R’s.
      
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      April 6, 2024 4:07pm
  - Chris Nisbet
    
    Here’s a wee story about it from Wikipedia…
    Gen sets and a ship
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Auckland_power_crisis
    
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    April 6, 2024 4:03pm
- kowtow
  
  ‘All hauled in by horse and cart of course,’
  
  Another inconvenient fact is that when we did depend on the old nags huge amounts of land were dedicated to growing food for them ( and not for people).
  
  And we seem to have gone full circle , now dedicating land again to farm carbon credits , that no human will ever eat or benefit from ( other than the speclators of course).
  
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  April 6, 2024 2:35pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    But the piles of horse shit was great for the garden. 🙂
    
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    April 6, 2024 3:12pm
I remember when

All Cause deaths in England May 2023.

Unvaccinated: 1,120
First Dose: 231
Second Dose: 1,560
Third/Booster: 4,011
Fourth/Booster: 27,277
Total Deaths: 33,079

Generally accepted that 9.3% of their population is unvaccinated.
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April 6, 2024 11:56am
- Benedict Yu
  
  FFS. You need to show the all cause mortality RATES for vaccinated vs unvaccinated. The mortality rates for the vaccinated have been lower than for the unvaccinated every month in the UK since 2021.
  
  Disclosure. I have just had my sixth COVID shot and I feel fine. 🙄
  
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  April 6, 2024 1:07pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Agreed, the rates are important.
    
    But:
    N=1 is not a suitable sample size. You cannot extrapolate your lack of symptoms to a whole population.
    
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    April 6, 2024 3:10pm
    - MCōs
      
      I was at the pharmacy for a flu jab the other day
      I also got a covid jab there back in December so I asked them how many had subsequently died.
      About half of them, I was told as they playfully took turns to beat me with bed legs
      
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      April 6, 2024 8:17pm
  - cmm
    
    “Disclosure. I have just had my sixth COVID shot and I feel fine. ”
    
    I am curious why you would do that.
    
    Do you think there is a real medical benefit? Or is this just compliance to get travel documents etc?
    
    PS: I have had zero shots and I also feel fine.
    
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    April 6, 2024 3:31pm
    - Ghost
      
      Because the first 5 didn’t work, maybe the 6th will……
      
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      April 6, 2024 3:50pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      In the several degrees of separation of people I know, no-one died of Covid.
      
      In the several degrees of separation of people I know, hundreds had massive side effects, some permanent. Dozens and dozens of deaths, some within hours of the jab.
      
      And all those who keep getting sick with Covid reinfections and Long Covid, all were vaccinated.
      
      Bene would say that was anecdotal.
      
      I would say that he is fine because Covid doesn’t have a 100% kill or damage rate.
      
      You don’t wait until all your mates drop dead to decide the vaccine is dangerous, or that puffer fish is to be avoided, or that you don’t walk through long grass with bare legs / barefoot in snake country, or walk with unprotected skin in areas where there are swarms of mosquitos.
      
      Russian Roulette.
      
      Bene is not well as a result of the vaccine. He is well in spite of the vaccine.
      
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      April 6, 2024 5:53pm
    - mandk
      
      Me too.
      
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      April 6, 2024 6:32pm
  - Che Guava
    
    “Disclosure. I have just had my sixth COVID shot and I feel fine.”
    
    I still haven’t had any, and I too feel fine.
    
    What do you believe your 6 Covid shots have actually done for you?
    
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    April 6, 2024 3:47pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Taught him the value of compliance.
      
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      April 6, 2024 6:01pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    BY: “Disclosure. I have just had my sixth COVID shot and I feel fine”
    
    You have got to be joking??? 😂
    
    If not, W H Y ? ? ?
    
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    April 6, 2024 5:44pm
  - mandk
    
    The rates for unvaxxed vs vaxxed (any number of doses) are implicit in the information Irw shows.
    
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    April 6, 2024 6:29pm
- wsk12345
  
  Bene will be along soon to tell you your numbers are wrong 🙂
  
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  April 6, 2024 1:22pm
- JohnRidd
  
  Remember if you die within two weeks of being vaccinated it counts as an unvaccinated death. Sometimes it was within two weeks of the second vaccination still counted as unvaccinated.
  
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  April 6, 2024 4:00pm
  - mandk
    
    And if you have asymptomatic covid and get shot to death on your driveway, it gets counted as a covid death.
    
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    April 6, 2024 6:35pm
I remember when

Ford has announced that it is delaying production of new electric pickup and large SUV as US EV sales growth slows.
Instead, it is pivoting, following similar moves by GM and Mercedes, to make more hybrids.
Although still growing EV sales have slowed sharply.
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April 6, 2024 12:03pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  It will be interesting to see the trends in New Zealand. Now that the stupid subsidy has gone and they are paying RUC.
  
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  April 6, 2024 1:09pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Is the government still planning a charging network?
    
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    April 6, 2024 2:47pm
    - mandk
      
      I hope not.
      
      If there is really a market, the private sector should be left to do the job.
      
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      April 6, 2024 6:25pm
  - cmm
    
    BY: The main change to the trends are that the early adopters (ie. people who wanted an EV) have now bought one. Now that EV will last them 5+ years, so who is going to buy another EV in the next 5 years?
    
    The subsidies just compressed the buying into a few months I don’t think they really changed anything seriously on the financial viability front.
    
    Nor has RUC really changed anything. RUC is about $1000 a year for average users.
    If you can afford to spend $80k or whatever on a new EV, then $1K of RUC is not a deciding factor.
    
    In fact it is cheaper to buy a VW EV now than it was a year ago with no RUC and all the rebates. Last I saw VW was offering $15k off on a $75k EV. The rebate would probably have been only $10k or so. No doubt other manufacturers are offering similar incentives.
    
    So the removals or rebates and addition of RUC are not the limiting factor. What is the limiting factor is people don’t want them.
    
    This is very different from the established motor vehicle industry where there is a continuous market of cars wearing out and people buying new ones.
    
    EV factories ramped up to fill a demand wave. Now the wave is gone and they have factories with no customers. Some will cut prices massively but that is not a sustainable business model. Some (eg. Ford) can probably redeploy some factories into making petrol/diesel and hybrids again. I suspect though that EV pure-plays are going to die.
    
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    April 6, 2024 3:19pm
Bridgenag

Friday Funnies: Hod Roddin’
“Democracy” eclipsed.

https://open.substack.com/pub/rwmalonemd/p/friday-funnies-hod-roddin?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
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April 6, 2024 12:21pm
Ghost

Congratulations to everyone on now reaching the status of others.

Flu add on to. Shoo the flu, the flu vaccine is now free for Pacific Islanders, people over 65, pregnant women, and many others…. Well, at least they worked out that it is pregnant women.
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April 6, 2024 12:25pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Presidential Debates. Trump wants Biden drug tested.
SOTU Biden was high as a kite.

https://www.thepoliticalglobe.com/trump-advocates-for-drug-testing-in-presidential-debates-amid-concerns-over-bidens-state-of-the-union-performance-04-04-2024/?
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April 6, 2024 12:40pm
- MCōs
  
  What drugs do you have in mind?
  Got to get me some of that shit!
  
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  April 6, 2024 8:08pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    I know, right? This has got to be one competition where we really NEED to see some performance enhancing drugs!
    But seriously folks, no matter what sort of miracle of science they come up with (and the USG has got to have the best shit available) it’s still going to be like running a clapped-out old banger on high octane fuel. You’ll get higher revs but will blow out the valves much sooner.
    
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    April 6, 2024 8:20pm
  - NothingLeft
    
    The thinking is that he’s using something like Donepezil to give him brief periods of increased lucidity, which is why he’s hidden away most of the time.
    
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    April 7, 2024 11:24am
Maggie Pie

You would have to think this is exactly the type David Seymour is referring to,
when he describes …… the lefty deadbeats that currently infest our Universities.

Here’s one from Auckland, (pronouns & all), that deserves the DCM….

https://twitter.com/REasther/status/1776068423585612109
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April 6, 2024 1:19pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Just shows how little they get from schools.
  
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  April 6, 2024 1:20pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    As a friend said the other day, everything started to go wrong in New Zealand the day we turned our back on traditional values. Everything that brought us together as a society. Family, Christian beliefs, moral education, and laws that protect the rights and wellbeing of those who actually contribute to society.
    
    Ardern and her ilk have a lot to answer for. Things need to change for the better.
    
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    April 6, 2024 1:52pm
    - MCōs
      
      At least Ardern is married
      
      2 5
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      April 6, 2024 3:41pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Doesn’t change anything in the eyes of God that she gave birth OUT of wedlock.
        
        5 3
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        April 6, 2024 4:54pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      I know of quite a few fundy Christians who strangely bend the alleged rules from God when it comes to their own eventual decision to divorce.
      
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      April 6, 2024 5:46pm
  - cmm
    
    Yup, do not confuse school and education.
    
    Unfortunately the poster there is likely correct: the kids probably learn more by skipping schhool than by going to school.
    
    However, I will wager that the average kid that skipped just saw this as a way to wag school rather than doing it for any moral etc reason.
    
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    April 6, 2024 3:28pm
    - MCōs
      
      Times have changed since you went to school
      
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      April 6, 2024 3:44pm
cmm

I never watch TV, but perhaps once a month I see a TVNZ or such link pop up on youtube.

I see Maori are claiming to own the hydrogen in the ground.

To be more accurate, it isn’t actually hydrogen per se, but rather a mineral that when hit with hot water releases hydrogen. Therefore it isn’t really sustainable, so all talk about sustainability etc is greenwashing.

Now there’s a bit more to the story than that, but this is really the shit that turns off any investment in NZ.

It also turns off professional people (engineers etc) from considering moving to NZ.

Why relocate to a country with this sort of threat hanging over the economy?
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April 6, 2024 3:08pm
Maggie Pie

Here’s a question for the fam….

Does anyone know if there’s a secret to playing KENO?
Logged in earlier to buy my tickets for tonites Powerball, and discovered I’d won $109 from last Wednesdays drawer.
So for fun, spent a hundy on 5 Keno Dips in the next draw. Never done it b4.
Just checked back after 3, only to find that I didn’t win shit…. not even a bonus ticket!

Are you better to chose your own numbers perhaps?
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April 6, 2024 3:35pm
- MCōs
  
  Just keep losing
  The NZ Film Commission needs the money for the Ardern documentary
  
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  April 6, 2024 3:52pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    You’d already be a loser wouldn’t ya Cossie? 😀 😀 😀
    
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    April 6, 2024 3:56pm
- greybeard
  
  Not just Keno, MP…..
  Bear with me here folks, I am in one of my “Conspiracy” moods and am compelled by my inner voices to express myself !
  
  I refer to the longstanding betting game of “Powerball” as operated by Lotto New Zealand, controlled by the NZ Lotteries Commission.
  
  The prize for Division 7 in Powerball is $15 plus a Bonus Lotto ticket, and that for Division 7 in Lotto is a Bonus Lotto ticket.
  
  These Bonus tickets consist of 4 lines each of 6 numbers.
  
  I discovered some time ago that these Bonus Tickets have a worrying peculiarity: no number on a 4-line Bonus ticket is repeated on that ticket.
  
  i.e. of the range of 40 numbers ( 1 – 40 ) the 24 numbers printed on the ticket are all unique.
  
  e.g
  ◦ A 09 20 29 32 35 37
  ◦ B 14 18 24 28 36 40
  ◦ C 02 03 08 10 11 26
  ◦ D 01 05 19 21 22 31
  
  This suggests to me that the selection is NOT random but determined and allocated deliberately by a computer program.
  
  For the draw which relates to this Bonus Ticket ,when the 6 Lotto numbers are drawn , and one of these numbers appears on a line on the Bonus ticket, it will never appear on any of the other 3 lines.
  
  If the FIRST number drawn appears on one of your 4 lines, then THAT line becomes the ONLY line which could win the first prize .
  
  I am no mathematician or expert in probability, but this would seem to be a deliberate ploy to negate the odds of a Bonus ticket winning any major Lotto prizes. I bet the Lotteries Commission has never divulged this information.
  
  Even more worrying: if this type of ticket can be manipulated by the Lotto New Zealand , then what other dubious practices are being perpetrated in relation to the draws for Bullseye and Keno ?
  We are never shown how these numbers are selected , unlike the live Lotto / Powerball draws.
  Just what system is used to select supposedly “random” Keno and Bullseye numbers ?
  
  If it was up to me I would use the well-proven numbered balls-in-a-bucket system, selected by someone in the crowd.
  
  I smell a rat.
  
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  April 6, 2024 4:44pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It is socialism. Collect from the rich (coz the poor can’t afford Lotto) and redistribute to the poor. Even millionaires are poor compared to another million win.
    Ever notice that when the prize is high there are a lot of one off players getting a miserable lowest price ticket? A player that has bought 10 tickets in their life strikes it!
    Money comes to money.
    
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    April 6, 2024 4:53pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Thanks for that grey… most enlightening!!
    And yes, I know full well that whenever I end up with say a 4 line Bonus Ticket, it’s not even worth checking.
    
    I have a few ‘self-imposed’ rules about investing in Powerball.
    Never enter the drawer until it exceeds 10 mill.
    Never invest more than $240 at a time (10 x $24 Dips).
    Stick with both weekly drawers thru to the conclusion.
    Never watch the live drawer on telly.
    
    And I’ve just made up another one… never play KENO again either.
    
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    April 6, 2024 5:13pm
- cmm
  
  ” I’d won $109 from last Wednesdays drawer.”
  
  … from last Wednesdays draw.
  
  Drawers are what your knickers go in (when they aren’t hanging off the chandeliers).
  
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  April 6, 2024 7:52pm
- Jake Dee
  
  “Does anyone know if there’s a secret to playing KENO?”
  
  Yes. Don’t.
  But seriously if you want a better understanding as to why Lotto, Keno, etc. are all bad for the individual and community check out the stories of the old gangsters’ “Numbers” and “Policy” rackets. They only got permanently shut down when they were rolled into state lotteries.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOBhD7QdgSQ
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_game
  
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  April 6, 2024 7:58pm
Ghost

Sounds like Epstein number 2

NEW: Diddy’s former bodyguard Gene Deal suggests that Diddy may have tapes of politicians, princes and even preachers which could now be in the hands of the feds.

“I don’t think it’s only celebrities gonna be shook. He had politicians in there, he had princes in there. He also had a couple of preachers in there.”

“They got tapes of stuff.”

X Link
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April 6, 2024 5:10pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Cannabis Chloe, wrap your laughing gear around this.
Dr Phil (who I dislike) on anti Israel activists. That is you right Chloe?

https://rumble.com/v4npeur-dr.-phil-absolutely-eviscerates-anti-israel-activists-on-hamas-in-epic-fash.html?
4 3
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April 6, 2024 5:17pm
NZer In Exile

I popped my head into that far left toilet known as The Daily Bog.

Reading the comments confirmed that they live in a parallel universe. I can’t see a way forward with these people. They need their own “special” state/zone in the country.

[Mod – are you ok, do you need help?]
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April 6, 2024 5:50pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Hey, you guys offer a link to their site! I (unfortunately) clicked on it! 😝
  
  [Mod – send your bill for treatment to DPF then. Good luck with your recovery]
  
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  April 6, 2024 7:36pm
Ghost

Ministry of health tried to play politics and make the minister look bad, it backfired

The Ministry of Health has admitted it didn’t sufficiently brief Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey on its “change proposals”.

It was revealed on Thursday it’s proposing to cut 134 jobs to meet the Government’s demands to reduce costs, resulting in confusion over whether the Suicide Prevention Office would close or not.

One news
8 2
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April 6, 2024 6:05pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Baltimore, the ship.
Conspiracy but some say the ship was remote controlled from China.
Instagram I don’t have so I relay this. You make your mind up. Take another look at the ship movements, it turned starboard.

https://www.instagram.com/kylereyesceo/p/C5WpbmRr-m5/
1 4
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April 6, 2024 6:09pm
- Ghost
  
  The contents of the containers were reported by the media. Love how people online read an article then expose it on on twitter, TikTok or instagram as if it’s not well known
  
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  April 6, 2024 6:21pm

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