Clark reveals she knew
August 28th, 2008 at 12:12 pm by David FarrarThis is the even bigger smoking gun. Helen Clark has known since February that Owen Glenn donated to Winston Peters. NZPA reports:
Wellington, Aug 28 NZPA – Prime Minister Helen Clark has said Owen Glenn told her earlier this year that he had given $100,000 to New Zealand First leader Winston Peters, but Mr Peters had told her the expatriate billionaire was wrong.
Miss Clark told reporters that Mr Glenn had told her about the donation at a meeting in February.
Miss Clark said that when she had run this by Mr Peters, he had told her that Mr Glenn was mistaken.
These conversations all took place before Mr Peters held a press conference at which he strenuously denied receiving any money from Mr Glenn.
She should resign in disgrace. All this time she has sat there knowing the truth, and has allowed Peters to continue this charade. This must be the end of her.
UPDATE: Clark is defending herself by saying she asked Peters and had to take his word. What crap. Look at when Benson-Pope lied – she asked the media to supply tapes or transcripts to her office so they could work out if he lied.
I knew Clark was unethical but I never quite realised quite how unethical she is. This is really disgusting. She sat there while Winston Peters defamed Audrey Young and said nothing. She knew that e-mail from Owen Glenn was not fake, and said nothing. She thinks her only responsibility to the public of NZ is to ask Winston, and accept without question anything he says. That is not leadership. That is not integrity. That is a sad desperate attempt to remain in power, no matter what.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
So…is she spiking Peters guns now before he spits the dummy and spills all?….. or does she know a third party is about to come out with details of what she knew?
No credibility left either way.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
This is a very big thing!!
In some ways, what Helen has done is worse than Peters. At that time, she may have thought that Peters genuinely did not know. So , instead of correcting him, she allowed him to continue making a fool of himself.
The wicked witch must go!
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Your Momma should resign in disgrace!
If Clark is a liar (tags, above) why would she spill this now?
[DPF: Because Owen Glenn was about to]
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
This has to end.
How can anyone have any belief left that Helen suits a leadership position of a NZ political party?
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Now we have that poodle Dunne claiming that they are the party with integrity.
So much integrity that they still have not paid back the money they stole from us.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
She is spilling the beans now, because OG is coming to town.
Vote:Best release the news before OG does.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
She’s dead! As they say “Birds of a feather stick together” This is unbelievable.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
interesting and interestinger…
Can it be that Helen’s story has been fabricated to cover the fact – that it was Labour who organized the donation to Winston.
Owen Glenn has obviously got the pip, and is keen to spill the beans.
Helen has released this information because it is the lesser of two evils,
What secrets will Owen Glenn spill.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
This is disgraceful from her.
Vote:She needs to call an election today.
This now goes to prove what a power hungry woman she really is.
CALL AN ELECTION HELEN!!!
August 28th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
She’s laying the ground to sack Peters. Distancing herself as usual.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
She MUST resign today. She has allowed Peters to remain as Foreign Minister knowing that he has misled Parliament. She has also misled the House, and quite frankly, her behaviour has been corrupt.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
So Winston say’s he was not even AT Karaka in 2006. From his own mouth
From HANSARD 14 Feb 2006.
“I will give members an example relating to Don Brash and the National Party. I saw them at the Karaka saleyards this year. In 20 years, National Party members have done nothing for racing whatsoever. But there they were, totally supportive all of a sudden of the racing industry.”
Truth is an absolute, it is whatever is fact, not whatever is convienient to beleive at the time.
The track record, Paintergate, the Motorcade, so on and so on, reinforce that integrity is a quality in short supply on the treasury benches.
I DEMAND a General Election, roll on the next opinion poll!
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
You know what?
I bet our glorious leader is reading this thread right now, and thinking “they’re so right. that’s what I’m going to do, I’ll resign today…”
[DPF: It is interesting that not even you can defend Clark on this. Instead you just try and troll. Why don't you state in simple clear terms whether or not you approve of her actions in this]
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
So now John Key, Rodney Hide, Jeanette Fitzsimmins/Russel Norman, Maori Party, Banderton & Dunne should all announce that they won’t enter coalition discussions with Labour unless Helen Clark can provide a decent explanation as to why she sat on this!
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Of course she’s not going to resign. A whole flock of sacrificial lambs is queuing in front of her.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
I’m beginning to think that Owen Glenn has integrity and is not going to throw it away for politics… How interesting…
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
This will be seen as an incident of moment alright, how entertaining to finally see the slippery fish wrigglein the net for a change.
Vote:Forgive my sceptcism but a resuting change of Govt’ through this. Is it too much to wish for?
August 28th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
The corruption in this country is beyond a joke. John Key shoudl also come out and say that he will not give the support of any government he leads to Clarke getting a Un job either. Mind you, being corrupt be an advantage on your CV when applying to the UN.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
You know…. there is always the possibility that when Owen Glen’s money didn’t buy him the policies that he wanted, he decided to get revenge.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
Why would she come out and say this now though???
Vote:I don’t understand that.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
“I knew Clark was unethical but I never quite realised quite how unethical she is. This is really disgusting. She sat there while Winston Peters defamed Audrey Young and said nothing. She knew that e-mail from Owen Glenn was not fake, and said nothing. She thinks her only responsibility to the public of NZ is to ask Winston, and accept without question anything he says. That is not leadership. That is not integrity. That is a sad desperate attempt to remain in power, no matter what.”
Yes but will it lose her the election ? Unfortunately what anyone on this blog or any other political blog thinks the only thing that matters is what the majority of ill-informed New Zealanders think once they get into the polling booth. We are a long way from that.
As sad as it is I think the majority of New Zealanders like having the state messing in their lives, owning the infrastructure and deciding how their money should be spent. That is clearly demonstrated by Nationals willingness to adopt Labours policies. The rest of us therefore need to either shut up or ship out.
I suspect that whoever wins the election the number shipping out will be increasing.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Because Owen Glenn was about to reveal that she has known all along. It was desperate damage control.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Probably because she was asked the direct question and OG has been called to testify at the PC. Better to come clean now and still claim it was disputed and put the blame on WP for misleading her.
Also the Order Paper has just been amended so that the Emissions Trading Scheme Bill is at the top and so in the house today.
Hooten said Clark is obsessed with it. Not sure if true but I agree with him that she seems to be overestimating its vote worthiness. Why are people going to vote for large increases in electricity and fuel prices? Once that detail becomes clear people will vote with their pockets. A one off rebate will not compensate
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Glen is scaring the shite out of Labour now – what does he have on Helen & co?
This is scandalous
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Settle down Brian. We need her to take that UN job or she’ll hanging around like week old fish forever.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
RRM – that arrogance typifies everything that is wrong with the current Government. Sod off!!
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Come on DPF How can you act so surprised Unless all the evidence on Clark offered up by various sources over mnay years was a tissue of lies then it was obvious to blind Freddie that she is an unprincipled unethical immoral person.
I was living in her electorate in the late 70s and had been told enough by then to decide she was unfit to govern a booze up in a brewery.
You dont collect the numbers of the same stories around you unless there is a degree of truth in them.
RRM see my post at another DPF comment Clark knows Gen is about to reveal all and there is nothng she can do to him Unlike so many other individuals who have been silenced by her and her sidekick H2 Glen is untouchable.
So like all cowards when faced with their moment of truth she will now do anything to avoid the final show down.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
RRM. Where are you now???? Impossible to defend the indefencible isnt it. Yet another example of this Corrupt Power Mad Government.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Very good point DPF, and really I guess the only explanation.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
mike12 Glen will reveal to the PC that Mikey Williams promised him a gong for the 500K donation and that Luigi promised him the Comsulate of Monaco for the 100K donation
Now the gong was nice but the big prize was the Consulate. You see Glen then gets auto entry to all the other Embassys parties to meet and rub shoulders with BIG BUSINESS And they dont come any bigger than in Monaco Think Formual 1 week The business expos young Prince Albert puts etc etc Lots and lots of chances to further build his freight agency business.
The Consulate was worth mega bucks to Glen as he would struggle even with his wealth to get into the places he wants to.
As a mere billioinare hes a bit pleayer in that market but as the NZ Consulate hes in the door.
Its really so simple And not unusual History is full of gongs for cash the more cash the bigger the gongs. The recent UK situation is the same as its been in NZ Only up to know the parties have all kept their shut.
Helen blew this one when she told Luigi no way Jose A small matter with a very large consquence
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Peters 2, MMP 0
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
I am genuinely shocked and disgusted by all the implications of this sorry saga.
Vote:Poor New Zealand.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
I think the test of MMP is about to occur in a month or two.
I suspect it will pass with flying colours.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
I think a vote of no cofidence is called for now followed by a phone call to the Gov Gen
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
“Only now, Young Peters, do you realise the truth..”
Clark has been this unethical and this desperate right from the moment she stepped foot in Parliament.
Her government has been a fantastic collection of skulduggery, manipulation and deceit – right from the get go.
It is only now, since the media woke up, that she has been exposed a a female Palpatine.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
“Only now, Young Peters, do you realise the truth..”
Clark has been this unethical and this desperate right from the moment she stepped foot in Parliament.
Her government has been a fantastic collection of skulduggery, manipulation and deceit – right from the get go.
It is only now, since the media woke up, that she has been exposed as a female Palpatine.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
But Cullen seems to have denied in the House that they had been advised by NZF?
Questions for Oral Answer — Questions to Ministers
[Volume:645;Page:14463] 21 February 2008
Questions to Ministers
Hon Bill English: Can the Prime Minister tell the House whether her coalition partner New Zealand First has advised her whether Owen Glenn is the mystery anonymous donor who placed nearly $100,000 in the New Zealand First bank account last year, and if not, does she intend to ask New Zealand First in order to find out whether a donation may have affected Winston Peters’ consideration of who to appoint as consul to Monaco?
Vote:Hon Dr MICHAEL CULLEN: No, I cannot advise that, nor can I advise the House of any of the anonymous donors to the National Party, …………………”
August 28th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Helen is on record in Hansard yesterday as saying:
“I have seen that statement and I have also seen the refutation of it by Mr Peters. The matter is before the Privileges Committee. There is clearly a conflict of evidence, and I await the outcome of the committee.”
Why did she say this, if she already knew having spoken to Owen Glenn in February that the statement was correct.
HAS SHE NOT MISLED PARLIAMENT?
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
More Utu from Mr Glenn. I wonder what other little surprises he will disclose. Oh the plot thickens.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
What a corrupt, lying old bitch she really is. A sickening, despicable, power hungry piece of shit.
If that offends any of you leftie losers that are so in awe of the haggard old fucking dyke then good.
Anyone looked at the top two stories on the stranded?
“Social Report shows Kiwis better off” and “Herald poll shows Nats’ lead collapsing”
No mention of “lying, corrupt old dyke must resign now?”
Slippery John, hidden agenda, blah blah blah. If her ideology isn’t offensive enough then whack on a good dose of corruption and hypocrisy to top it up!
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Of course she’s misled Parliament democracymum, but she’s past caring. She thinks that she is above the law. worse still, she thinks she IS the law! The fur will be flying this arvo!
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
This must be the most corrupt government ever in this country. There is obviously more to this than meets the eye.
Vote:Maybe the Privileges Committee need to call Helen Clark to account.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
mmmm and who is it who has the secret agenda?
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
“Anyone looked at the top two stories on the stranded? ”
They are too busy with their day jobs; unfairly dismissing people on the basis of race and political beliefs.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Gough Whitlam / Helen Clark – are they related? “In its second term, the Whitlam Government continued with its legislative reform program, but became embroiled in a series of controversies, including attempts to borrow large amounts of money from Middle Eastern governments (the “Loans Affair”). Whitlam was forced to dismiss Treasurer Jim Cairns and another senior minister, Rex Connor, for misleading Parliament.”
and where is our Governor-General today?
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Anmyone who watched Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister should not be shocked by these events Remember maggie Thatcher said the both programmes were actuall documentaries
The pressure must be put on the MSM to keep this story alive TVNZ and Radio NZ will be under enormous pressure from the 9th floor plus with Fran (who ate all the pies) and her other Socialist buddies like Espiner looking to avoid reporting it at any cost it must be all hands to the pumps.
Anyone out there with any leverage gotta put it to work other wise the 5 minute attention span of the MSM will kick in and they will off looking for the latest cat up a tree story
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Actually, I hope that she stays; this story will not die, and it will become fixed in the public’s mind- and so when finally we do vote, we will see a greater swing than if the Dear Leader’s government falls now and a snap election is held.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Just to add to the corruption – Helen Clark is wanting to get rid of the 4 National MPs on the Privileges Committee!
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Is she going to be in the House today to face the music? Or will Cullen be misleading the House on her behalf?
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
I’m with Grant McKenna in his 1.44pm post. Leave Clark there another month or two. There is bound to be more revelations. A very slow painful death is going to be much better than a quick kill.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
I see the standard has a recent post that suggests they think Ms Clark may cut Mr Peters loose.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
What would they know Alex? The Standard has absolutely no connection with the Labour party and the 9th floor. Absolutely none. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Don’t even know where the 9th floor is.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
There must be a record somewhere of Helen saying something like – In the absence of any other information I take Winston on his word…. Misleading parliament and the NZ people seems to be the the new black in the Labour-led govt.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Even more cynical – she timed her media conference so that it would be out of time for anyone to ask the Speaker for a snap debate today!
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
It’s being spun somewhat differently by Steve Pierson over at The Standard DPF.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
The Priviledges Committee must summon Ms Clark so they can question her as to what she knows and have her re-tell her conversations. Surely this would have a bearing on determining credibility. If Glenn had told her ages ago, doesnt that support Glenns version.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Cullen just made a veiled reference to a prominent National party blogger blurting something about Nats supporting the ETS in a drunken state. Has DPF scored another reference in parliamentary debate? Could keep score of that along with the cork count
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Captain Crab Clark is shitting bricks at what Glen will reveal to the PC next Thursday He will reveal all. And I suspect he will be able to corroborate his evidence.
OG is one very smart cookie And he has been humiliated by Peters and Clark, Guys like him dont forgive They dont get mad They get even.
And in OGs case this means ending Peters and Clarks political careers once and for all.
And Clark can forget about the UN job. That wont happen now.
She will find herself an untouchable. Noone will go near her. She is spoiled goods.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Toad: Of course it is. Nothing surprised me about how far they will go to defend lies and corruption.
Insider: I was pretty drunk yesterday but I don’t believe I discussed the ETS at all – it was all about Winston. Plus I have no idea what the Nats are doing on the ETS.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
“Hon Bill English: Can the Prime Minister tell the House whether her coalition partner New Zealand First has advised her whether Owen Glenn is the mystery anonymous donor who placed nearly $100,000 in the New Zealand First bank account last year, and if not, does she intend to ask New Zealand First in order to find out whether a donation may have affected Winston Peters’ consideration of who to appoint as consul to Monaco?”
That question specifically asked if NZ First had advised her. Sounds like she was advised but not by NZ First.
Clark seems to be playing this poorly: she needs to cut Peters loose now before any more of the shit sticks to her.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Cullen also obviously doesn’t want any more $$$ from Owen Glenn, pretty much calling him confused and a liar. Does this mean that Labour are about to dip into the govt coffers again to fund their campaign & retrospectively okay it again?
The PM needs to get out of the beehive & check actual public opinion & see she’s in the wrong
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Helen Clark, get packing ……
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Has it occurred to anyone yet, that Helen Clark has actually endorsed Peter’s statement that he did not know. She is trying to defend Peters by backing his statement that he did not know about the Owen Glenn donation after she asked him in Feb’08.
Vote:Whether this reflects on her character is and the shit sticks is quite different to the line of defence they are taking up to ride out the storm.
August 28th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
However, the Standard is correct that Key’s decision to wait until now to shun Peters is motivated by the same lust for power over principle as Clark’s actions.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
You know if i were told by the Prime Minister that some-one, such as Glenn, had given me 100K, I would have a damn good look to see if that were the case. And once i had looked i would look again. Mr Peters reaction to the Prime Ministers enquiry smacks of willful blindness, in the nelsonian tradition.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
One would start wondering what He knows about Her !!
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Owen Glenn deserves to become consul to Monaco under the next National government. Has a prospective consul ever worked more effectively for this country?
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
In reply to democracymum: Herr Helen very carefully worded her answers in parliament on 27 Aug (http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/Debates/QOA/9/6/b/48HansQ_20080827_00000077-2-Foreign-Affairs-Minister-Confidence.htm) to avoid lying.
However, Helen is slippery and devious, so while she has admitted that she knew of a “conflict of evidence” (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/multimedia/audio.cfm?c_id=1&gal_objectid=10529498&gallery_id=102189) there is nothing (yet) that proves that she knows that Peters was lying.
http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/08/28/joke-of-the-day-helen-clark-invokes-natural-justice-and-fair-process/
Vote:http://kiwipolemicist.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/never-trust-a-marxist/
August 28th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Brian. Are you suggesting Winston is not NZF? – If he isn’t then the question is nonsense in that the entity – NZF cannot advise anyone.
Clark of course revealed she asked Peters in February if Glenn donated to him to which he denied – therefore he has advised her.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Patrick Starr asks “Can the prime minster tell the house whether her coalition partner NZfst has advised her whether Owen Glenn is the mystery anonymous donor”. Sullen advises no. Like it or not Patrick the question asks if NZfst advised Dear Leader, the question didn’t ask if Owen Glenn had advised her. Once again the old cow slips the noose as she has not lied. She must have about used up all her nine lives by now.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Clarks chances of getting a cushy job at the UN are now either really shakey or solid as a rock.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
This is surreal. All of a sudden this deeply disturbing govt’s about to collapse – hopefully. Clearing out the poisonous residue isn’t gonna be an easy task for the incoming government though. Be strong, John, and patient
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
[DPF: It is interesting that not even you can defend Clark on this. Instead you just try and troll. Why don't you state in simple clear terms whether or not you approve of her actions in this]
It’s a hard one. I believe Labour’s general mix of economic and social policies are the best (out of the choices available) for the good of the country – that’s why I voted for them. There is a certain ugliness in Clark being aware of dodginess in the way her coalition partner funds the “timesheets & toilet rolls” of his political party, and keeping quiet about it. But to me that is all there is.
I would be demanding she resign, if – say – it turned out Clark was siphoning millions into a Clark/Davis personal account in Geneva. But no-one is suggesting anything like that.
I like to believe that Clark did what she did because she sees her top priority as being to keep the Labour Government as strong as possible for as long as possible, in order to further their – electorally mandated – agenda as far as earthly possible. As a Labour voter I see this as Clark doing the utmost to make my investment (in voting for her party) work.
Basically, as long as there is integrity in the way the Parties put their policies up for election, and then stick to that mandate, I could care less how they fund their timesheets and toilet rolls.
I expect nothing less from my funds manager. So as a Labour voter, it is a struggle for me to become too outraged by all of this! Although I can fully understand why righteous outrage spews forth from the political right, and I would be the same if the left were in the opposition benches…
And lastly, for once I concede to the “Troll” call. I’m sorry but so much of what passes for discussion and debate on these threads is just bile & hatred, that on occasions it is very hard indeed to resist picking at the scabs a little…!
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Right of way is Way of Right says:
I seized on that too. But Winston is far slipperier than that. If you carefully parse his statements on that particular issue you’ll see he hasn’t denied being at Karaka that year, just meeting Owen Glenn at Karaka that year. he claims it was the following year (2007).
So what needs to be ascertained, to clarify if this is indeed another blatant lie or just a successful red herring, is whether Owen Glenn was at Karaka in both 2006 and 2007.
If the answer is “yes” then it’s possible that Genn has, as Peters claims, mixed the years up. If, however, Glenn was there in 2006 but not in 2007 then Peters has admitted meeting him, so it is Peters that is deliberately or inadvertently wrong and Mr Glenn’s recollection is unquestionable.
Gawd I sound like I’m defending the Baublemeister but far from it… as it stands, Winston’s denial is plausible and the doubt about it’s thruthfulness hangs on whether you believe he’s lying.
If Glenn can produce an itinerary for 2006 and 2007 then it’s another factual nail in Winston’s political coffin.
So someone, please… add that to the list of questions the Privileges Committee needs to ask Glenn!!
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Side Show Bob. Clark got advice from two people in February about the $100k donation,
1./ Owen Glenn (who said he donated) and,
2./ Winston Peters (who said he didn’t)
The only difficulty is it all happened on 21st Feb, same day the question was asked in the house
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
interesting in the Dom Post article on the SFO investigation
He told her then, as he has said all along, that he “never made a phone call to Mr Glenn”.
If someone said that to me, I wouldn’t immediately assume that there had been no contact and no soliciting for funds, just maybe it wasn’t done on a phone call.
E.g. Peters could have asked OG in person. This is so like Clinton’s impeachment hearings it’s not funny, for HC to be satisfied by such an obviously carefully worded restricted excuse makes her either incompetent, or complicit.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Fair enough Patrick, I guess the next question should be “at what time on the 21st did OG ring the Dear Leader?”. Whats the bet the phone records meet with an unseen disaster should the call have come from OG before question time.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
Somewhere in the US right now one Jim Peron has a smile on his face a mile wide……justice is slow buddy….but it comes.
Now for the Flannagans…..
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
One thing not yet mentioned is Clark’s clear lack of strategic ability in handling this issue given she’s had all this information throughout.
Even if some may have thought she’s unethical she was generally accepted as politically competent.
However this entire sorry saga has been appallingly mismanaged, even given the probability that OG has been gunning for both of them since the Consulate position disappeared. They all had plenty of time to get their stories straight and manage the storm when it broke.
There is no evidence they’ve done anything except hope it would go away. Both Peters and Clark have destroyed their own reputations inside NZ.
It’s true that Clark may still get a UN job if she gets the ETS passed since the UN will view this as a minor domestic abhorration in an otherwise successful administration, but she’s proven here she has very few political skills available when things turn pear-shaped and she doesn’t control the agenda.
I’ve never supported Clark, I’ve always thought she was corrupt, dishonest, self-serving and bad for the country. However, I’ve never thought she was incompetent, until now.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Reid,
Your analysis is excellent. Clark’s political skills have been on the wane for the last 18 months. She did look better than she really was in the first half of her tenure as PM partly because the National Party in opposition were nothing short of useless.
Historians and students of New Zealand Politics will look upon the events of the 28th August 2008 and will note that this was the day when the fate of the 5th Labour Government was sealed due to Clark being badly exposed due to lacking credibility by withholding important information from the public. The other big problem for Clark now is Key. He is starting to look very compentent on TV and appears like a PM in waiting.
It’s ironic that Labour and cronies have tried so hard to make the mud stick to Key but they have ended up with mud all over themselves instead. As for Peters I’m not surprised he’s being so badly exposed I’ve always known he’s a phoney.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Thanks Lindsay, I appreciate that feedback.
You’re absolutely right that Clark has lost the ability to throw mud about secret agendas. Bwahahaha springs to mind.
Just on Clark’s history, I remember that during her entire first term that her control was to me, palpable. I could almost physically feel the way she was holding all her ministers and the entire govt in check. She had obviously set herself the goal of a second term and that was going to happen no matter what and she pulled out all the stops to keep the screws tight. There was no controversial legislation that could go wrong, there were bar-b-ques for journos eager to get an inside scoop, etc. Then, almost immediately the second term began, I sensed a loosening of the screws and although the elements from the first term such as rigorous media manipulation were still being pursued, the social engineering and other elements of controversy started to surface and ministers started exercising their usual incompetence.
She’s an extraordinarily capable person in many ways but perhaps political strategy isn’t one of those capabilities despite the popular myth. Perhaps her main strength is in monitoring and control, and if so that would explain many aspects of her administration, such as the reason why she is so obsessed with constant polling and focus group message testing.
Even though he had his bad points I’ve always admired Rob Muldoon for his gut-level political instincts, his ability to sense the mood of the electorate and play to its buttons. Clark has always been a wooden robot by comparison and personally I could have lived with that, if she wasn’t so transparently venal and had treated the people of NZ with the respect they deserved. Numerous actions of hers have been so predictively destructive and she is so intelligent that I refuse to believe she hasn’t known what she was doing to this lovely land of ours. I find it relatively easy to forgive sleights against me, much harder to forgive sleights against my country.
At least Rob Muldoon, whatever his faults, was at heart, a patriot. I suspect Peters might also be one. I really have my doubts about Clark.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Excuse me for sounding out of sync, but it just occured to me today that all the allegations against Winston occured before the EFB was ratified.
Therefore, were the donations still too large??
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
“At least Rob Muldoon, whatever his faults, was at heart, a patriot. I suspect Peters might also be one. I really have my doubts about Clark.”
Outstanding and enlightened statements and I would’ve bought you a beer if we’d been standing at a bar together.
I don’t think though Peters is a patriot. He is too aligned to the US and the neo con administration which smacks of totalitarism and visits communist nations such as Nth Korea where he was invited. Hardly must be seen as a democratic sympathiser.
Clark is a complete communist and is trying to change the entire landscape of this country. This is proven by her recent anti democratic legislations to smother the public voice. Winston is perpetuating this scenario and the new paradigm Liarbour is enhancing.
We must be the cosest at any time in history to a modern storming of the Bastille.
Liberte, egalite, fraternite.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
MichaelS: “Why would she come out and say this now though???
I don’t understand that.”
Because Mike Wlliams put Peters in contact with Owen Glenn.
And Clark knows that.
And Clark knew that in February…..when she and Williams discussed it…..just before Wiiliams spoke to Peters……
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
It has been quite a day, and I find myself sipping a very self satisfying glass of red, not as it reflects my political persuasions though, far from it actually.
Schadenfrude is a word that leaps to mind at times like this. I am sure that there are many people who still hold a great deal of admiration for Clark but I can safely say that I am not one of them. I grudgingly respect her political skills but not her morals. I do not and will not forget that this very government came to power via the theft of $800,000 of taxpayers money which was then retrospectively validated, and even though Labour paid the money back, it’s coalition partner has lacked the fortitude to even do that.
The chickens are coming home to roost.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
So, Owen Glenn told Helen Clark at the opening of the Owen Glenn Business school.
If only someone had been there with a concealed recording device!
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
riki:
Regular readers know that I despise Bush and the neo-cons, and it’s because of the damage they have done to the American Republic. However I’m a strong a supporter of the US of A. That support doesn’t mean I’m blind to the fact that on occasion their administrations act quite against the best interests of the nation and their peoples and I don’t hesitate to say that. That’s why I criticise Bush 43, Clinton, Bush 41 and Blair, but I don’t criticise Reagan, Carter or Thatcher, for example. In my view liberal and conservative administrations are irrelevant and I simply look at whether the administration is acting in the best interests of the nation
Therefore, I applaud Peters’ efforts to increase our ties with the American Republic, notwithstanding it occurs at a time that nation has elected an administration I despise. I doubt Peters shares my views of the administration, but as Foreign Minister, he has acted in NZ’s best interests with respect to the USA.
With respect to NK, Peters skilfully used NZ’s hard-won credibility as a neutral harmless long-standing international player with integrity and good credentials, to bring two parties together. That I suspect had a great deal to do with our MFAT professionals and it would be nice to see some analysis of those events at some point since it’s a no-doubt interesting tale, but nevertheless it wouldn’t have happened without Peters’ direction, active support and liaison at senior levels, and the benefits of his actions are clear to see and good for all nations involved. It’s a true diplomatic win-win-win: for the US, for NK and for NZ.
That’s one reason based on his more recent actions as to why I think Peters is a patriot.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Anyone who places both Bushes and Clinton in one box, and Reagan Thatcher and Carter in another is beyond reason. It fits with your weird acceptance of the crazed ideas of the political left on Bush and Iraq, ideas that come from people you’d normally regard as depraved. You need to read David Horowitz’s book “The Party of Defeat” and wake up to the fact that the not patriotic but more treasonist anti Bush anti Iraq war movement is merely another front in the never ending war on our freedoms and choices and democracies conducted by the global socialists.
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Does the ETS represent the last chance for Winston to grand stand and walk out of government before he is pushed. It doesn’t look like Winston has many options left. His fortunes are tied to Labour’s. He either back’s Labour all the way or it’s the opposition benches for him in the next parliament if he makes it back (highly unlikely now).
Vote:August 28th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
Bryan Spondre- “The rest of us therefore need to either shut up or ship out.”
Spineless collaborator. We don’t shut up, we speak out and we damn well challenge the left and their current social and political ascendancy and WE CHANGE THINGS. What a loser. If that’s an example of the mentality that prevails in the so called opposition, its a damn wonder this country isn’t further down the tube than it is.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 12:03 am
Redbaiter with all respect even though you’re very astute and quite entertaining your commentary seems to be confined to left is bad, conservative is good. I realise you make tremendously subtle, relevant and interesting distinctions on that theme but at a gross level that appears from my perspective to be the summation of your philosophy. To me however those distinctions largely disappear when I look at the global chessboard where little is at it seems and that’s personally where I spend most of my time.
As you probably know from my past comments I’m reasonably aware of the historical origins and recent agenda manifestations of the leftist agenda but what I never hear from, at least from people on this particular blog, are the origins and agenda of people from the conservative sector. They also exist and they play out, all the time and they are very interesting, when you look at most international events, say Georgia.
It’s neither the time or place to engage in why I group both Bushes, Clinton and Blair together, but rest assured, I have good reason to do so and if DPF ever chooses to place a post whereby such connections can be revealed within the polite context of the post, I won’t hesitate to do so.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 12:52 am
“Redbaiter with all respect even though you’re very astute and quite entertaining your commentary seems to be confined to left is bad, conservative is good.”
I merely seek to stem the tide of leftist totalitarianism threatening to engulf the Western world, and to persuade as many people as possible to assist in that mission. I am baffled by the fact that you Reid, one who seems so aware in so many other areas of the political battlefield cannot see something so starkly apparent as the global left forces underpinning the opposition to the Bush administration and the Iraq war. When I see you lumping the heroes Reagan and Thatcher together with the sniveling appeaser and de-facto traitor Jimmy Carter, its baffles me even more. Don’t try and explain it, you’ll only make my head spin.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 1:26 am
No I won’t explain the details RB, it’s not on topic, but by way of general explanation a logician said to me once: just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean you’re not being followed.
Just cause a lefty said it, doesn’t mean it’s not true.
Hey you could well be right, I hold my mind open, always.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:20 am
“We don’t shut up, we speak out and we damn well challenge the left and their current social and political ascendancy and WE CHANGE THINGS.”
So why do you appear to be posting from Australia ?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 8:39 am
You know I had you down as an ignorant and relatively harmless fool, but in divulging the personnel details of posters, a line that in my experience no other blog owner has ever crossed, you’ve just downgraded yourself to the category of unprincipled and cowardly lowlife.
“Blog Producer” Pfft.. what pretentious crap. Go away you sad officious contemptible little man. I’m done with you and your pathetic propaganda outlet, and I have enough stalking psychotics bothering me on this blog as it is.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Redbaiter:
“Spineless collaborator. We don’t shut up, we speak out and we damn well challenge the left and their current social and political ascendancy and WE CHANGE THINGS. What a loser.”
So how do you reconcile that implied admission that you have voted with your feet, with your criticism of me above ?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Redbaiter:
“I have enough stalking psychotics bothering me on this blog as it is.”
How do you reconcile this statement with your numerous defamatory comments about me on this blog ?
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 10:44 am
“So how do you reconcile that implied admission that you have voted with your feet, with your criticism of me above ?”
Where I am posting from at any particular time is no damn business of yours, and if Mr. Farrar ever showed the same damn lack of principle and astounding level of parochial ignorance as you, he would have me posting from all over the damn globe. Which I do. Go away. I have no wish to converse with a small minded creeping hypocrite who has the gall to whine incessantly about bad words yet is ready to so casually break one of the civil blogosphere’s most respected and hallowed customs.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 10:49 am
So I guess that is a “No Comment”
I guess I won’t be experiencing anymore of your unwanted critiques ? Excellent , mission accomplished.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Actually Bryan… mission accomplished, but not even slightly excellent. You have taken personal information supplied in confidence and published it. That is unprincipled, wrong and just pain nasty. It brings most lefties (even the rare ‘genuine’ ones) into even more disrepute. Shame on you.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 11:32 am
getstaffed: And I would happily do it again. Redbaiter made a series of fallacious remarks about me on this blog and others under the protection of ‘anonymity’. He posted very abusive comments directed at me on blogs that I administer. That behaviour is unacceptable.
Vote:August 29th, 2008 at 11:48 am
:
Vote:comment deleted – holding my tongue
:
August 29th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
“comment deleted – holding my tongue”
You have to don’t you. They’re just too nauseating. (ie “And I would happily do it again.”) Just no principles whatsoever.
Vote: