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Regarding yesterday’s post MORE ON PARLMERSTON NORTH NAME SUPPRESSION CASE, ‘Keeping Stock’ raised the issue that the offender’s business shares the same address as a pre-school, but DPF’s comment indicates the person’s occupation is a further concern.
I wonder if the importance given the first issue was possibly negated by the second. If the offender is, for example, a doctor to whom parents took young children, the whole question as to how much a need to be undressed to any degree for examination could be questionable and of concern. He may not have an interest in a pre-school if parents actually bring young children to him because of his profession.
Also, as I posted earlier, I wonder if a professional body can discipline member or ‘debar’ one, again for example in the case of a doctor or perhaps a dentist, if name suppression is involved, as any explanation of such action could lead to identification.
Regarding the over the top approach by Airport Security to people joking about having a bomb in their Luggage, do they;
a.) Sincerely believe that actual terrorists tell security staff that they have bombs in their luggage.
b.) Feel that the extremely slight danger of being told there is a bomb and ignoring it, then looking like complete plonkers if there is in fact a bomb, plus the power trip payoff they get from acting like Nazis makes it more than worth their while to treat travellers badly.
Matt
Whilst I agree with your premise, sensibly jokes like that in times like these cause grief and fear to others around you, it also could be considered a threatening behaviour to people who are going to be in an environment where they fell unsafe already.
I am happy with Jail being a fair option as is being banned from flying for a period either one or both.
Do you think people will “joke” about it then?
Dime
I would love to see those figures too.
especially the ones for WFF showing the amounts of tax in, the loss as the money travels through govt coffers, then what is paid out and then the loss to us of having WFF in the first place with a list of how many ops could be done on it in a year.
Of course we won’t hear Phil Goff admitting he s agreed to lose our money will we?
Yvette,
In the legal context a Standards Committe and the NZ Law Practitioners Disciplinary Tribunal have the power to withohold the name of a practitioner who is sanctioned in certain circumstances.
If a practitioner was subject to a suppression order imposed by the court under the Criminal Justice Act, or any other enactment then while notice has to be given the practitioner would not be identified.
Tax revenue is the major source of core Crown revenue. This totalled $54,145 million in the 2008/09 financial year.
:: a total of $8,246 million on payments of New Zealand Superannuation
:: a total of $4,784 million on payments for the working age benefits – Domestic Purposes Benefit (DPB),
Unemployment, Sickness, Invalid’s and Widow’s benefits
:: a total of $1,917 million on payments for assistance with expenses related to accommodation,
disability, hardship and entering or remaining in the workforce
:: a total of $545 million on payments to assist people to obtain a qualification or independent youth to
continue education/training or obtain work
:: a total of $334 million on other forms of financial assistance such as childcare, care of unsupported
children, payments to Australia and special circumstances
According to Statistics NZ for 2008 (latest available) Total welfare spend on benefits was $11,908,084,000. This was made up of Super $7,571,533,000; Invalids $1,245,464,000; Widows $72,797,000; Sickness $652,576,000; Orphans $80,966,000; Veterans $140,686,000; Unemployment $508,334,000; DPB $1,635,728,000.
These figures are for benefits paid by MSD and do not include WFF, which is handled by the IRD.
Dime the bulk of wealfare is super. The fallibng ratio of workers to support wealfare is the real issue. We once had something like 15 people working to one recieving and we’re down to less than half that now.We have way to many people not working who could and should be working and too many young people going overseas. Like my family for example of 12 of my generation there are only two of us left in New Zealand but of our parents generation 7 of 8 are here on super. (The eighth is dead and therefore not drawing anything)
@ Yvette (8.27am) – I raised the ECE connection, simply because I work in that sector, and I know how my wife and I would feel if we found out second-hand that one of our neighbours had an unhealthy interest in children. We would be absolutely livid if the safety of children in our care was in any way compromised.
With regard to your other comments, you raise very valid concerns. It woul;d seem the Prominent Palmerstonian has lost his job and been suspended by his professional body, but there must be lingering doubts for anyone who has dealt with him in a professional capacity, especially with children. This merely adds to my incredulity over Judge Fraser’s decision to permanently suppress the offender’s name.
I think previous contributors to this thread have hit the nail on the head. We pay too much tax in large part because we have an ever-growing central government paying out benefits to all and sundry in ever increasing amounts.
Unfortunately we have become captured by the notion that “compassion” towards the poor and disadvantaged is shown by the generosity and liberality of our central government welfare benefits.
I would like to see a different approach based on community initiatives, individual and family responsibility, and a sense that welfare is a temporary “hand up” to those in real need, rather than a perpetual “handout” to all and sundry. It is not kind or compassionate to trap people in welfare dependency, in some cases over many generations.
Unfortunately the previous Labour administration seemed hellbent on providing benefits and handouts to as many people as possible. I am sincerely of the view that this was deliberate because it encourages more and more people to rely on the state, and by default to be beholden to the Labour government. As Winston Churchill once said, “if you are robbing Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on Paul’s support”.
Let’s have smaller government, less tax, and more individual, family and community responsibility. That is the path in my opinion to a much better New Zealand.
Mike my father spent 37 1/2 years paying into a Navy superannuation scheme to be told by a spotty youth born in another country at WINZ that he was on a benefit that taxpayers were paying for him so he should be grateful.
The common problem in this country of people under 25 assuming they have value and no one else does.
Let’s pick a date say 40 yrs time and on that date all super ends and that generation will fully fund their own super.
So start now.
All the others will have a pro-rata super from that date (based on their contribution).
Though what we do for the truly indigent I don’t know.
There all done
Now how do we get there from here?
What we do need is for us to stop the state being the parent of us all and lessen our independence & humanity with it.
Maybe if people had to go to their families and friends for monies instead of an anonymous cash machine they would be held accountable for choices and we’d find out just what family is?
February 10th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Mike my father spent 37 1/2 years paying into a Navy superannuation scheme to be told by a spotty youth born in another country at WINZ …”
A person who was not born in New Zealand and was working at winz telling someone who had spent 4 decades in service to be gratful that the government was permitting him to have the money he had paid into a scheme returned to him and that it was a “benefit”.
No concepts there that are too hard for you I hope left? Just asking.
Unless Shonkey transforms into Jesus and does a loaves and fisher miracle the laws of physics are going to sneak up and kick us up the arse. The man can juggle the books as much as he likes but it will be to naught. As long as those that take continue to suck from an ever decreasing tax supply any productivity gains will be simply wasted by the politicians to scared to do what must be done. Are all politicians in this country ball less wonders or is our system so screwed up ( MMP ) that the disease is now terminal and all hope lost, I’m inclined to think so.
How much is collected from Child Support in regards to the DPB ?
This is another rort. A person on the dpb gets a fixed amount depending on a set of criteria (number of kids, etc etc). The liable partner gets assessed a percentage of their income. If that is fuck all, the amount the dpb recipient gets is not lowered. If the earning parent makes heaps (ans subsequently pays heaps), the dpb recipient doesn’t get any more. It is churned into the general slush fund.
I am not sure how exactly to make this more equitable. Any suggestions.
What we do need is for us to stop the state being the parent of us all and lessen our independence & humanity with it.
The truth is out, what christians hate is not sin, but humanity. How will lessening humanity make us a better society? Are you so cold and heartless? Not follwing in Jesus’ footsteps, aye?
Murray tsk,tsk, one has to remember that the under twenty fives are owed.
I notice Dime did not state that the young should pay the full cost of their university education.
If you ask them why they are owed they tend to get confused.
LRO
I choose to ignore your foolishness and stupid behaviour.
From your puerile comment I take it you are a socialist therefore you can’t understand that man’s dignity is based on his ability to produce and be productive, failure to do this saps the human soul and dehumanises you.
Getting a benefit and not producing or doing meaningful work degrades the person hood and desensitises them to their calling to contribute, be productive, innovative and entrepreneur like in their life manner.
That is why socialism doesn’t work as it takes from those who are productive and gives to those who aren’t, additional to that it penalises those who grow wealth (cows, bricks, coins, trees etc etc) in it’s hatred and envy of them and fosters this rebellion in the young through the education system and the crony’s it manages to put there.
You see all are not created equal, all are different and all have different capacities and all may not take advantage of the opportunities that happen upon them or that they unearth.
Egalitarianism is a construct of envy as it is evidenced in a tiered taxation system to lop the tall poppies amongst us.
That someone works and studies hard for 10-20 yrs and becomes a doctor, lawyer or accountant, whatever and thereafter earns more than someone who doesn’t put in the work and study should mean that they are rewarded for their effort.
But no that is not the case with egalitarianism/socialism more is taken from them and given to those who don’t do the work they have and to some who never work.
Further the bigger they seek to enlarge their capacity to create, the more they are penalised so growth is limited for all by the short sighted envy mindset of the small people (possibly like you) for why should one seek to grow the pot when haters take what you grow or have paid the price to grow and interfere with your ability to grow the pot.
This is the culture of entitlement that pervades our isles and until it is displaced and killed in the minds and hearts of all we can never gain the position we could as a society.
This is why people set up trusts and other entities to make more for themselves and why our tax system is out of whack, because of the socialist mindset that robs us all as it strangles entrepreneurship and innovation while we let it reign.
This funnily enough is Biblical but then it is life giving as is the Bible for it is life, not from your comment would I think that you understand that. So mired in your viciousness towards life.
That mustn’t mean we don’t give a hands up to those who need it but that must be an ACCOUNTABLE hands up as remember it is OTHER PEOPLES MONEY.
This is true dignity, treating people as people and accountable and able to lead and make their own lives.
General Debate 44 comments
Religious debate 103 comments
It’s amazing how much people can say about religion when they say they don’t want to talk about it.
You know the ones who doubted the word of others over the word of a drunken buffoon and bully.
The ones who happily called the parents of the girl everything nasty from A to Z.
those who questioned the young man standing up for his friend.
Those and that includes DPF who asked “is it about the money?” in order to spin the young man’s intentions into something other than what it was.
I know that if my son stood up for one of his friends the way this guy did, against a giant of a man, I would be proud and honnored to call him son.
I ask myself if those here who excused Brooke would have the backbone this kid had, and I am afraid running through the list I have to say I doubt it. They would not have tried to protect this young girl, and now they would not have the integrity to admit that they were so far in the wrong.
Thank you Bok. Meanwhile back at the religious debate I am attempting to reconcile Dad and BB. Its not working too well I think I need a christian or two to start praying for them.
This is the one part I disagree with – the old kiwi bloke (and common Kiwiblog?) attitude was to either accept or turn a blind eye to this sort of boofhead behaviour. The young man and then the parents stood up against it.
Pete George I dont agree.
The young man shows good old fashioned values of standing up for what you believe in. Dont know the old kiwi blokes you know or grew up with, but when I went to NZ in 1981, you shook some-ones hand and believed him or her. You knew that the kids would be safe and that others in the neigbourhood looked out for all kids.
The sense of fair play and caring was real. Not the type academics engineered. our front door was seldom locked.
yes there was and will always be the exception. But as a rule I think you just grew up around the wrong people…
I didn’t grow up around the wrong people. I grew up in a country area where there was a lot of neighbourlyness, care and support (except that driving drunk was normal, as was drinking far to much). And then I moved to the city, and then to a bigger city, and I saw bits of the dark side. “Men” boasting about sorting out “the missus” sort of thing. The police turned a blind eye to that sort of “domestic”. I later lived in a town where going to the local on Saturday night to start a fight was a regular sport.
In rugby there was usually a couple of dirty bastards in every team, something that was usually just accepted. I witnessed a dirty bastard at Carisbrook in the 90s – Robin Brooke, but as he was in opposition territory he was rightly jeered and booed.
I agree – that young fellow showed real courage standing up to Brooke. Brooke has shown himself to be a coward and scumbag, even if he was a good rugby player once.
I haven’t been able to access regularly for a bit so forgive me if this was covered.
I feel huge sympathy for the taxi driver who was killed and anyone else who has been attacked but that’s where my concern ends. I am sick of people bleating to the Government to fix all their problems.
Why the fuck do taxi drivers think it is the role of Government (ergo taxpayers) to pay for whatever security systems they need to put in place? Do banks ask for this? Shops? ANYONE???? It is a business expense, do what you have to and write it off like the rest of us, end of story.
kaya, I’ll try to answer, without needing to swear, curse or cuss.
It may have escaped your notice, but unlike banks taxis are not owned by four major corporates. They are often individually owned and are run through a variety of co-operatives who have no coercive powers.
Sometimes there are good employers who provide the necessities for a safe work environment, and sometimes there are bad employers who will provide as little as possible and need the coercive force of the state to do the right thing.
The state shouldn’t pay for taxi security safety systems just as they shouldn’t pay for fixing the brakes or buying new safer tyres.
Sweeping regulation should be approached very carefully too. Why should taxis that do airport runs (and pay higher charges to do that) be made to buy security systems they may not need? Taxi drivers that work nights in higher risk areas should either take more risks or spend money on their own protection.
Re the taxi safety issue. shouldn’t this be within the jurisdiction of OSH? If they rule that there has to be a safety screen and/or camera fitted then that’s it – the taxi is ruled unfit as a workplace (and therefore off the road) until the taxi owner complies (as is my understanding of the department of business disablement).
The poll I saw on kiwiblog showed the biggest vote went to $15.
Anyway, Wilkinson is a waste of space seat warmer until National kind find a decent candidate for waimakariri. If she can’t beat Clayton Cosgrove in a rural / urban seat who can she beat?
“Troy Michael Hansen got five months home detention and a final warning from Judge Noel Walsh who had decided that three weeks on remand in custody was enough jail time for the 19-year-old. ”
Something not quite right here MNZ. Troy never got name suppression to protect the victims!
Judge Noel Walsh sounds like he learned his judging at the same night classes as Judge Grant Fraser!
I know this is Farrar’s blog and he can post on whatever he chooses, yada yada yada. It might be me but I feel posts on the dirty backroom deals the Nats are doing with the MP are non existent. Posts on the disgraceful behaviour of MP politicians are similairly non existent. One and all correct if I am wrong.
Leftrightout – you know what I meant. No other business needs nanny state to tell them how to operate.
The majority of taxis in NZ are owner operated and the drivers contract to the taxi company. Like all other small businesses you pay to do what you need to and deduct the expense from your gross income. We don’t need more bullshit legislation.
We had nine years of that crap from Clark, it is a failed model which will take many years to sort out.
Oh and re the poll on Kiwiblog about minimum wage, 43% of the vote was for NO minimum wage. $15 was most popular amongst the example rates used, a country mile behind.
In my former life as an employer (NB I repeat, employer, not like all these managers these days who join employers associations: these guys balls are not on the line like mine were!) I employed many young people.
Now sure, the work was pretty menial, but I ended up abandoning youth rates, not through any agitation from the kids, but just through sheer embarrassment. They would pick the job up so quickly, and work so hard, that it was simply unjust to pay them less than a adult for the equivalent work.
So I just started them all on the adult minimum award rate. They liked working for me, obviously, but would usually move on because the work just got too boring for them. And I am talking about Pakeha, Maori and Pacific Island kids. They were all brilliant.
My view is that not paying these kids adult rates is just ripping them off and if the business can’t succeed under fair pay conditions, the owners should find a new line of work.
” I think DPF has a different tread for that sort of comment now side show. Line call really. ”
Yeah, I see there’s a GD thread dedicated to religion now. Great to know the main GD thread will not be clogged up with AGW and/ or Socialist doctrine any longer.
Leftrightout – It isn’t the place of Govt to dictate how business should be run. If you are concerned about driving a taxi get your employer to put a camera in, if he won’t then don’t drive it. It’s called free choice. If the situation is bad enough then no one will drive the taxi.
As I said already, we have more than enough nanny state that is going to take 20 years to sort out without introducing more.
“Should all bus drivers have full safety cages?
All people serving in shops? And especially in service stations?
Should there be a reaction and preventative measures taken every time shit happens”
Maybe. Employer’s responsibility is to provide a safe workplace. If driving a cab isnt safe then need to do something about it – cages would be my suggestion as in NYC. But dont need a government regulation for this as it should be able to be sorted out under existing market and rules.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:16 am
Thursday will be a big day in Iran
http://pajamasmedia.com/michaelledeen/2010/02/05/the-iranian-revolution-devours-its-young/
Note how China is helping the revolutionary guards keep their comms going whilst they close the cpountry’s comms down.
some are fighting back.
http://persian2english.com/?p=5857
Meanwhile this is what the UN thinks is Human rights material at their Human rights council while the young of Iran are slaughtered under its watch.
http://www.unwatch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=bdKKISNqEmG&b=1314451&ct=7974315
February 10th, 2010 at 8:27 am
Regarding yesterday’s post MORE ON PARLMERSTON NORTH NAME SUPPRESSION CASE, ‘Keeping Stock’ raised the issue that the offender’s business shares the same address as a pre-school, but DPF’s comment indicates the person’s occupation is a further concern.
I wonder if the importance given the first issue was possibly negated by the second. If the offender is, for example, a doctor to whom parents took young children, the whole question as to how much a need to be undressed to any degree for examination could be questionable and of concern. He may not have an interest in a pre-school if parents actually bring young children to him because of his profession.
Also, as I posted earlier, I wonder if a professional body can discipline member or ‘debar’ one, again for example in the case of a doctor or perhaps a dentist, if name suppression is involved, as any explanation of such action could lead to identification.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:32 am
Good point Yvette
Unless the whole hearing was held in camera?
But then that wouldn’t be democratic nor seem fair would it?
February 10th, 2010 at 8:32 am
Regarding the over the top approach by Airport Security to people joking about having a bomb in their Luggage, do they;
a.) Sincerely believe that actual terrorists tell security staff that they have bombs in their luggage.
b.) Feel that the extremely slight danger of being told there is a bomb and ignoring it, then looking like complete plonkers if there is in fact a bomb, plus the power trip payoff they get from acting like Nazis makes it more than worth their while to treat travellers badly.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:35 am
Matt
Whilst I agree with your premise, sensibly jokes like that in times like these cause grief and fear to others around you, it also could be considered a threatening behaviour to people who are going to be in an environment where they fell unsafe already.
I am happy with Jail being a fair option as is being banned from flying for a period either one or both.
Do you think people will “joke” about it then?
February 10th, 2010 at 8:38 am
Just for shits n giggles. can anyone tell me how much we spend on benefits a year? that includes WFF.
Has anyone ever worked out what the tax rates would be if we didnt have welfare? (not including superannuation)
I’m curious how much it costs me personally to pay out money to people that dont work.
Hell id like to know what the tax rates would be if there was no DPB.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:38 am
MikeNZ – “Unless the whole hearing was held in camera?”
The final result, possible deregistering or whatever, would still be public or become apparent, so raising the obvious question : Why?
February 10th, 2010 at 8:50 am
not if it was all held in camera and suppressed.
again that wouldn’t be democratic nor safe.
February 10th, 2010 at 8:53 am
Dime
I would love to see those figures too.
especially the ones for WFF showing the amounts of tax in, the loss as the money travels through govt coffers, then what is paid out and then the loss to us of having WFF in the first place with a list of how many ops could be done on it in a year.
Of course we won’t hear Phil Goff admitting he s agreed to lose our money will we?
February 10th, 2010 at 9:08 am
Just go to http://www.data.govt.nz and look for last years budget.
February 10th, 2010 at 9:09 am
Dimebag you lazy fuck
Go to the IRD website and find out for yourself
February 10th, 2010 at 9:12 am
Yvette,
In the legal context a Standards Committe and the NZ Law Practitioners Disciplinary Tribunal have the power to withohold the name of a practitioner who is sanctioned in certain circumstances.
If a practitioner was subject to a suppression order imposed by the court under the Criminal Justice Act, or any other enactment then while notice has to be given the practitioner would not be identified.
February 10th, 2010 at 9:16 am
From the treasury web site, budget 2009
Tax revenue is the major source of core Crown revenue. This totalled $54,145 million in the 2008/09 financial year.
:: a total of $8,246 million on payments of New Zealand Superannuation
:: a total of $4,784 million on payments for the working age benefits – Domestic Purposes Benefit (DPB),
Unemployment, Sickness, Invalid’s and Widow’s benefits
:: a total of $1,917 million on payments for assistance with expenses related to accommodation,
disability, hardship and entering or remaining in the workforce
:: a total of $545 million on payments to assist people to obtain a qualification or independent youth to
continue education/training or obtain work
:: a total of $334 million on other forms of financial assistance such as childcare, care of unsupported
children, payments to Australia and special circumstances
February 10th, 2010 at 9:20 am
and a few thousand mllion on administration for those ‘entitlements’.
February 10th, 2010 at 9:21 am
According to Statistics NZ for 2008 (latest available) Total welfare spend on benefits was $11,908,084,000. This was made up of Super $7,571,533,000; Invalids $1,245,464,000; Widows $72,797,000; Sickness $652,576,000; Orphans $80,966,000; Veterans $140,686,000; Unemployment $508,334,000; DPB $1,635,728,000.
These figures are for benefits paid by MSD and do not include WFF, which is handled by the IRD.
Source: http://www.stats.govt.nz/infoshare
February 10th, 2010 at 9:34 am
“Dimebag you lazy fuck. Go to the IRD website and find out for yourself”
thats not very nice Rat.
according to the demerit page: 20 points – abusive language.
For a man sitting on 90 demerits.. wouldnt that push you over the edge??
your new name could be “suspended rat”
(((hug)))
February 10th, 2010 at 9:35 am
Aussies are even dumber than us.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/3306944/TV-company-fined-for-rat-killing
Course it wasn’t a “dirty rat”
February 10th, 2010 at 9:36 am
Is it fair to say, if we crushed the DPB, the Dole and WFF, the top tax rate could be in the early 20’s?
February 10th, 2010 at 9:38 am
103pappap
On behalf of lazy fuck Dimebag
How much is collected from Child Support in regards to the DPB ?
February 10th, 2010 at 9:39 am
And if we euthenased the oldies we could cut tax to 10%. Shit what am I saying I am one!
February 10th, 2010 at 9:41 am
Dime the bulk of wealfare is super. The fallibng ratio of workers to support wealfare is the real issue. We once had something like 15 people working to one recieving and we’re down to less than half that now.We have way to many people not working who could and should be working and too many young people going overseas. Like my family for example of 12 of my generation there are only two of us left in New Zealand but of our parents generation 7 of 8 are here on super. (The eighth is dead and therefore not drawing anything)
February 10th, 2010 at 9:44 am
Yea its a major problem for the entire western world.
Europe are really in the shit. There will be a lot more africans moving there in the next 10 years.
The US have the mexicans. dont want em but need em!
February 10th, 2010 at 9:46 am
@ Yvette (8.27am) – I raised the ECE connection, simply because I work in that sector, and I know how my wife and I would feel if we found out second-hand that one of our neighbours had an unhealthy interest in children. We would be absolutely livid if the safety of children in our care was in any way compromised.
With regard to your other comments, you raise very valid concerns. It woul;d seem the Prominent Palmerstonian has lost his job and been suspended by his professional body, but there must be lingering doubts for anyone who has dealt with him in a professional capacity, especially with children. This merely adds to my incredulity over Judge Fraser’s decision to permanently suppress the offender’s name.
February 10th, 2010 at 9:47 am
Surely superannuation isn’t welfare is it?
People have paid into it all their lives!
February 10th, 2010 at 9:50 am
I think previous contributors to this thread have hit the nail on the head. We pay too much tax in large part because we have an ever-growing central government paying out benefits to all and sundry in ever increasing amounts.
Unfortunately we have become captured by the notion that “compassion” towards the poor and disadvantaged is shown by the generosity and liberality of our central government welfare benefits.
I would like to see a different approach based on community initiatives, individual and family responsibility, and a sense that welfare is a temporary “hand up” to those in real need, rather than a perpetual “handout” to all and sundry. It is not kind or compassionate to trap people in welfare dependency, in some cases over many generations.
Unfortunately the previous Labour administration seemed hellbent on providing benefits and handouts to as many people as possible. I am sincerely of the view that this was deliberate because it encourages more and more people to rely on the state, and by default to be beholden to the Labour government. As Winston Churchill once said, “if you are robbing Peter to pay Paul, you can always count on Paul’s support”.
Let’s have smaller government, less tax, and more individual, family and community responsibility. That is the path in my opinion to a much better New Zealand.
February 10th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Mike my father spent 37 1/2 years paying into a Navy superannuation scheme to be told by a spotty youth born in another country at WINZ that he was on a benefit that taxpayers were paying for him so he should be grateful.
The common problem in this country of people under 25 assuming they have value and no one else does.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:03 am
good point Murray.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:10 am
Let’s pick a date say 40 yrs time and on that date all super ends and that generation will fully fund their own super.
So start now.
All the others will have a pro-rata super from that date (based on their contribution).
Though what we do for the truly indigent I don’t know.
There all done
Now how do we get there from here?
What we do need is for us to stop the state being the parent of us all and lessen our independence & humanity with it.
Maybe if people had to go to their families and friends for monies instead of an anonymous cash machine they would be held accountable for choices and we’d find out just what family is?
February 10th, 2010 at 10:11 am
“Murray (4527) Says:
February 10th, 2010 at 9:55 am
Mike my father spent 37 1/2 years paying into a Navy superannuation scheme to be told by a spotty youth born in another country at WINZ …”
Murray, which country is at WINZ? Just askin’.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:21 am
I just love climategate the Christmas gift that keep evolving and giving all year round.
http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/156703
February 10th, 2010 at 10:23 am
A person who was not born in New Zealand and was working at winz telling someone who had spent 4 decades in service to be gratful that the government was permitting him to have the money he had paid into a scheme returned to him and that it was a “benefit”.
No concepts there that are too hard for you I hope left? Just asking.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:25 am
Nothing like insider trading to help your cedibility Mike.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:27 am
Unless Shonkey transforms into Jesus and does a loaves and fisher miracle the laws of physics are going to sneak up and kick us up the arse. The man can juggle the books as much as he likes but it will be to naught. As long as those that take continue to suck from an ever decreasing tax supply any productivity gains will be simply wasted by the politicians to scared to do what must be done. Are all politicians in this country ball less wonders or is our system so screwed up ( MMP ) that the disease is now terminal and all hope lost, I’m inclined to think so.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:33 am
I think DPF has a different tread for that sort of comment now side show. Line call really.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:34 am
This is another rort. A person on the dpb gets a fixed amount depending on a set of criteria (number of kids, etc etc). The liable partner gets assessed a percentage of their income. If that is fuck all, the amount the dpb recipient gets is not lowered. If the earning parent makes heaps (ans subsequently pays heaps), the dpb recipient doesn’t get any more. It is churned into the general slush fund.
I am not sure how exactly to make this more equitable. Any suggestions.
February 10th, 2010 at 10:41 am
mar 08 $365,000,000 collected in child support from http://www.ird.govt.nz
I guess that is for the year
February 10th, 2010 at 10:45 am
Mike 10.21am….the ipcc ship has sunk and climate change alarmists will one day be going to jail.So far this is the most detailed and it has 11 articles in an investigation on this scam http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/series/climate-wars-hacked-emails
February 10th, 2010 at 11:05 am
MikeNZ (1130) Says:
What we do need is for us to stop the state being the parent of us all and lessen our independence & humanity with it.
The truth is out, what christians hate is not sin, but humanity. How will lessening humanity make us a better society? Are you so cold and heartless? Not follwing in Jesus’ footsteps, aye?
February 10th, 2010 at 11:07 am
Fruitcakes of the week!
“Neuro-linguistic” programmers head from NZ to Samoa to help post-trauma counselling of Samoan tsunami survivors. (See link below).
Long may they enjoy their stay in Samoa, but apologies to Samoans.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-pacific/3311066/Samoa-tsunami-A-therapeutic-response
February 10th, 2010 at 11:13 am
Dime
According to the Don on breakfast TV this morning if we had govt expenditure at 2005 levels the rates would in the 20s%.
February 10th, 2010 at 11:40 am
If time stopped in 2005, Don would be still 65!
We would have less prisons, less policemen. And less …
February 10th, 2010 at 11:54 am
Murray tsk,tsk, one has to remember that the under twenty fives are owed.
I notice Dime did not state that the young should pay the full cost of their university education.
If you ask them why they are owed they tend to get confused.
February 10th, 2010 at 12:40 pm
LRO
I choose to ignore your foolishness and stupid behaviour.
From your puerile comment I take it you are a socialist therefore you can’t understand that man’s dignity is based on his ability to produce and be productive, failure to do this saps the human soul and dehumanises you.
Getting a benefit and not producing or doing meaningful work degrades the person hood and desensitises them to their calling to contribute, be productive, innovative and entrepreneur like in their life manner.
That is why socialism doesn’t work as it takes from those who are productive and gives to those who aren’t, additional to that it penalises those who grow wealth (cows, bricks, coins, trees etc etc) in it’s hatred and envy of them and fosters this rebellion in the young through the education system and the crony’s it manages to put there.
You see all are not created equal, all are different and all have different capacities and all may not take advantage of the opportunities that happen upon them or that they unearth.
Egalitarianism is a construct of envy as it is evidenced in a tiered taxation system to lop the tall poppies amongst us.
That someone works and studies hard for 10-20 yrs and becomes a doctor, lawyer or accountant, whatever and thereafter earns more than someone who doesn’t put in the work and study should mean that they are rewarded for their effort.
But no that is not the case with egalitarianism/socialism more is taken from them and given to those who don’t do the work they have and to some who never work.
Further the bigger they seek to enlarge their capacity to create, the more they are penalised so growth is limited for all by the short sighted envy mindset of the small people (possibly like you) for why should one seek to grow the pot when haters take what you grow or have paid the price to grow and interfere with your ability to grow the pot.
This is the culture of entitlement that pervades our isles and until it is displaced and killed in the minds and hearts of all we can never gain the position we could as a society.
This is why people set up trusts and other entities to make more for themselves and why our tax system is out of whack, because of the socialist mindset that robs us all as it strangles entrepreneurship and innovation while we let it reign.
This funnily enough is Biblical but then it is life giving as is the Bible for it is life, not from your comment would I think that you understand that. So mired in your viciousness towards life.
That mustn’t mean we don’t give a hands up to those who need it but that must be an ACCOUNTABLE hands up as remember it is OTHER PEOPLES MONEY.
This is true dignity, treating people as people and accountable and able to lead and make their own lives.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:09 pm
What a great suggestion of mine. Its working a treat.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/02/general_debate_5_january_2010.html#comment-658441
February 10th, 2010 at 1:28 pm
General Debate 44 comments
Religious debate 103 comments
It’s amazing how much people can say about religion when they say they don’t want to talk about it.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Still waiting for those defenders of Brooke to come out and show some integrity.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10625247
You know the ones who doubted the word of others over the word of a drunken buffoon and bully.
The ones who happily called the parents of the girl everything nasty from A to Z.
those who questioned the young man standing up for his friend.
Those and that includes DPF who asked “is it about the money?” in order to spin the young man’s intentions into something other than what it was.
I know that if my son stood up for one of his friends the way this guy did, against a giant of a man, I would be proud and honnored to call him son.
I ask myself if those here who excused Brooke would have the backbone this kid had, and I am afraid running through the list I have to say I doubt it. They would not have tried to protect this young girl, and now they would not have the integrity to admit that they were so far in the wrong.
Sad really, kiwi blokes used to be men. Used to.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:36 pm
Johnboy take a bow!!
February 10th, 2010 at 1:52 pm
Thank you Bok. Meanwhile back at the religious debate I am attempting to reconcile Dad and BB. Its not working too well I think I need a christian or two to start praying for them.
February 10th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
This is the one part I disagree with – the old kiwi bloke (and common Kiwiblog?) attitude was to either accept or turn a blind eye to this sort of boofhead behaviour. The young man and then the parents stood up against it.
February 10th, 2010 at 2:32 pm
Pete George I dont agree.
The young man shows good old fashioned values of standing up for what you believe in. Dont know the old kiwi blokes you know or grew up with, but when I went to NZ in 1981, you shook some-ones hand and believed him or her. You knew that the kids would be safe and that others in the neigbourhood looked out for all kids.
The sense of fair play and caring was real. Not the type academics engineered. our front door was seldom locked.
yes there was and will always be the exception. But as a rule I think you just grew up around the wrong people…
February 10th, 2010 at 3:04 pm
I didn’t grow up around the wrong people. I grew up in a country area where there was a lot of neighbourlyness, care and support (except that driving drunk was normal, as was drinking far to much). And then I moved to the city, and then to a bigger city, and I saw bits of the dark side. “Men” boasting about sorting out “the missus” sort of thing. The police turned a blind eye to that sort of “domestic”. I later lived in a town where going to the local on Saturday night to start a fight was a regular sport.
In rugby there was usually a couple of dirty bastards in every team, something that was usually just accepted. I witnessed a dirty bastard at Carisbrook in the 90s – Robin Brooke, but as he was in opposition territory he was rightly jeered and booed.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
I agree – that young fellow showed real courage standing up to Brooke. Brooke has shown himself to be a coward and scumbag, even if he was a good rugby player once.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:37 pm
Very little gets under my skin (apart from animal cruelty) but I have to admit that I have a kink in my armour.
Every time I see or hear that stupid wimin Delahunty speak in the house my blood boils, to think that I pay that things wages.
I have never seen a more useless person sit in the house.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
“Very little gets under my skin”
How many personality disorders do you have blouse? Haha what insanity.
Is your “armour” paper thin. Please DON”T answer. The joke is on you matey. Poor chap needs fresh air.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Piss off idiot.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:45 pm
There is only one idiot on here causing ACT to poll 1%.
February 10th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
Got a job yet D4J?
Or are you still bludging from those of us who work for a living?
February 10th, 2010 at 3:59 pm
I luv this read at the end of the working day ,very relaxing,keep posting
February 10th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
I haven’t been able to access regularly for a bit so forgive me if this was covered.
I feel huge sympathy for the taxi driver who was killed and anyone else who has been attacked but that’s where my concern ends. I am sick of people bleating to the Government to fix all their problems.
Why the fuck do taxi drivers think it is the role of Government (ergo taxpayers) to pay for whatever security systems they need to put in place? Do banks ask for this? Shops? ANYONE???? It is a business expense, do what you have to and write it off like the rest of us, end of story.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:14 pm
kaya, I’ll try to answer, without needing to swear, curse or cuss.
It may have escaped your notice, but unlike banks taxis are not owned by four major corporates. They are often individually owned and are run through a variety of co-operatives who have no coercive powers.
Sometimes there are good employers who provide the necessities for a safe work environment, and sometimes there are bad employers who will provide as little as possible and need the coercive force of the state to do the right thing.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:24 pm
John Key skewerd for breaking an election promise.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10625326
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiZ7qXR32QE&feature=player_embedded
maybe he can borrow John Howard’s non core promise used when he was exposed as lying about an Australian GST.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
The state shouldn’t pay for taxi security safety systems just as they shouldn’t pay for fixing the brakes or buying new safer tyres.
Sweeping regulation should be approached very carefully too. Why should taxis that do airport runs (and pay higher charges to do that) be made to buy security systems they may not need? Taxi drivers that work nights in higher risk areas should either take more risks or spend money on their own protection.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
Re the taxi safety issue. shouldn’t this be within the jurisdiction of OSH? If they rule that there has to be a safety screen and/or camera fitted then that’s it – the taxi is ruled unfit as a workplace (and therefore off the road) until the taxi owner complies (as is my understanding of the department of business disablement).
February 10th, 2010 at 4:32 pm
Should all bus drivers have full safety cages?
All people serving in shops? And especially in service stations?
Should there be a reaction and preventative measures taken every time shit happens?
February 10th, 2010 at 4:44 pm
Pete, you are expecting drivers to pay for security in a workplace they do not own.
And, as I see it, no one is asking the government to pay, simply to create some regulations that the owners must comply with.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:48 pm
Nats (Kate Wilkinson ) are talking about restoring youth rates. Must have read the Kiwiblog debate where the pro youth rate side won the day.
February 10th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
The poll I saw on kiwiblog showed the biggest vote went to $15.
Anyway, Wilkinson is a waste of space seat warmer until National kind find a decent candidate for waimakariri. If she can’t beat Clayton Cosgrove in a rural / urban seat who can she beat?
February 10th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
The poll I saw on kiwiblog showed the biggest vote was for no minimum wage at all. Perhaps you should have another look
February 10th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/92747/angry-words-sex-offender-gets-home-detention
“You think about those two young girls and what you did to them. If it happens again you will be locked up for a long, long time,” said the judge at today’s sentencing that followed the young BMX star’s guilty pleas on January 20.
He has previous convictions for which he got supervision, community detention, and community work sentences.
Duh! why are we paying for some of our judges?
and on another thread we’re discussing prisoners having the same rights as citizens to vote!
February 10th, 2010 at 7:23 pm
“Troy Michael Hansen got five months home detention and a final warning from Judge Noel Walsh who had decided that three weeks on remand in custody was enough jail time for the 19-year-old. ”
Something not quite right here MNZ. Troy never got name suppression to protect the victims!
Judge Noel Walsh sounds like he learned his judging at the same night classes as Judge Grant Fraser!
February 10th, 2010 at 7:50 pm
Another bone to gnaw on, Kiwiblogniks…
Could this be what National began in NZ and Labour and National continued? Ethnic re-engineering?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/7198329/Labours-secret-plan-to-lure-migrants.html
February 10th, 2010 at 9:33 pm
I know this is Farrar’s blog and he can post on whatever he chooses, yada yada yada. It might be me but I feel posts on the dirty backroom deals the Nats are doing with the MP are non existent. Posts on the disgraceful behaviour of MP politicians are similairly non existent. One and all correct if I am wrong.
February 11th, 2010 at 12:10 am
Leftrightout – you know what I meant. No other business needs nanny state to tell them how to operate.
The majority of taxis in NZ are owner operated and the drivers contract to the taxi company. Like all other small businesses you pay to do what you need to and deduct the expense from your gross income. We don’t need more bullshit legislation.
We had nine years of that crap from Clark, it is a failed model which will take many years to sort out.
Oh and re the poll on Kiwiblog about minimum wage, 43% of the vote was for NO minimum wage. $15 was most popular amongst the example rates used, a country mile behind.
February 11th, 2010 at 6:51 am
kaya, the majority of taxis are on the road 24/7. Do you think the owner does all the driving?
February 11th, 2010 at 7:48 am
In my former life as an employer (NB I repeat, employer, not like all these managers these days who join employers associations: these guys balls are not on the line like mine were!) I employed many young people.
Now sure, the work was pretty menial, but I ended up abandoning youth rates, not through any agitation from the kids, but just through sheer embarrassment. They would pick the job up so quickly, and work so hard, that it was simply unjust to pay them less than a adult for the equivalent work.
So I just started them all on the adult minimum award rate. They liked working for me, obviously, but would usually move on because the work just got too boring for them. And I am talking about Pakeha, Maori and Pacific Island kids. They were all brilliant.
My view is that not paying these kids adult rates is just ripping them off and if the business can’t succeed under fair pay conditions, the owners should find a new line of work.
February 11th, 2010 at 8:39 am
” I think DPF has a different tread for that sort of comment now side show. Line call really. ”
Yeah, I see there’s a GD thread dedicated to religion now. Great to know the main GD thread will not be clogged up with AGW and/ or Socialist doctrine any longer.
February 11th, 2010 at 8:56 am
Or Neocon doctrine- with emphasis on “con”?
February 11th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
Leftrightout – It isn’t the place of Govt to dictate how business should be run. If you are concerned about driving a taxi get your employer to put a camera in, if he won’t then don’t drive it. It’s called free choice. If the situation is bad enough then no one will drive the taxi.
As I said already, we have more than enough nanny state that is going to take 20 years to sort out without introducing more.
February 11th, 2010 at 4:05 pm
“Should all bus drivers have full safety cages?
All people serving in shops? And especially in service stations?
Should there be a reaction and preventative measures taken every time shit happens”
Maybe. Employer’s responsibility is to provide a safe workplace. If driving a cab isnt safe then need to do something about it – cages would be my suggestion as in NYC. But dont need a government regulation for this as it should be able to be sorted out under existing market and rules.