A smart ad

June 2nd, 2014 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

niceonesue

The Conservative Party ran this ad full page in the Sunday newspapers. It said:

We couldn’t be futher apart on the political spectrum.

We stand for different things, but we respect any politician that stands up for what they believe in, unfortunately they’re a bit thin on the groud at the moment.

You can change all this on September 20.

I have to say that I think this as is quite brilliant. The public like a party that can praise a politician from the other side of the spectrum, and the message the are trying to get across is that they are a party of principle, not pragmatism.

The ad also resulted in them getting the entire Page 2 of the Sunday Star-Times, which is some very useful free publicity.

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118 Responses to “A smart ad”

  1. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    I don’t buy into the meme that Ms Bradford is a person of principle.

    I’d respect Sue’s “principles” a lot more if she had organised one demonstration for human rights during all the time she was living in Communist China.

    Still, I guess the ad worked for the Conservative Party.

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  2. Pete George (22,804 comments) says:

    Yes, I think this is clever positive advertising.

    But the Conservatives may have opened themselves up to future criticism on this. If they make an arrangement with National, or even if there is perception of an arrangement to assist them in winning an electorate, then backing Bradford for sticking to principle rather than go along with a political deal will look hypocritical.

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  3. stephieboy (2,172 comments) says:

    Certainly the photo works very well and captures that principled and warm visionary effect rather than the old more scowled and frowning rent a demo look.

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  4. YesWeDid (1,029 comments) says:

    What are the ‘different things’ that the Conservative party stand for?

    Aren’t they using the wealth of a multi-millionaire to fund a party and trying to come to an arrangement with a larger party to gain a seat in parliament?

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  5. Manolo (13,357 comments) says:

    The only principles Bradford adheres to are communist ones. The woman is an enemy of liberty and freedom.

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  6. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    “then backing Bradford for sticking to principle rather than go along with a political deal will look hypocritical.”

    Actually coming from a past member of the Dunne gang that statement would have to be amazingly hypocritical even for you.

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  7. NK (1,068 comments) says:

    Very very easy to be a party of principle when you aren’t elected and don’t have to make decisions. All parties have their principles, but then they realise they have to be pragmatic when trying to implement them. I don’t know whether the Cons will ever be in a position to make decisions in NZ; I don’t think they will be post September 20. But if they are then hypocrisy will reign because that is the price all political parties pay for trading principle for pragmatism.

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  8. David Garrett (6,400 comments) says:

    Good morning Red!

    Talking of new parties, how’s yours coming along? got the 500 members yet? do you plan to lead it yourself or delegate that to someone not yet on the pension?

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  9. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    “What are the ‘different things’ that the Conservative party stand for?”

    For one thing they don’t want you to pay for their election campaign. Unlike most of the thieving left, Craig is unafraid to put his own money (rather than someone else’s) where his mouth is.

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  10. Colville (2,079 comments) says:

    ‘baiter.
    Dunne has never needed help to win his seat.

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  11. NK (1,068 comments) says:

    Very very easy to be a party of principle when you aren’t elected and don’t have to make decisions. All parties have their principles, but then they realise that once elected they have to trade them off to get things done. I don’t know whether the Cons will ever be in a position to make decisions in government that affect our lives, and I very much doubt they will be post September 20. But if they are I’m confident we will see their hypocrisy exposed because that is the price all parties pay for trading principle for pragmatism.

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  12. Pete George (22,804 comments) says:

    “What are the ‘different things’ that the Conservative party stand for?”

    For one thing they don’t want you to pay for their election campaign.

    Don’t they? Are they not going to apply for state funded broadcasting allocations?

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  13. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    How much of your own money did you spend on your campaign Mr George?

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  14. EAD (594 comments) says:

    Good advertisment.

    Our current malaise will only end when the New Zealand people see through the tissue of tricks and lies and manipulations and no sooner. The National/Labour “consensus” on every issue of real importance has evolved the way all political systems develop when left in power for too long. They found common ground and a common purpose, this combined with an overweening arrogance has led us to the point where both parties desire power to be kept within their grasp.

    I will be voting Conservative or Act at the next election and I really don’t care if it lets Labour in. Despite all of the spin, I simply can’t see any real difference between the 2 main parties.

    The country is borrowing more than ever, there have been no real cuts, just a little tinkering at the edges. The standard of governance seems to be going from bad to worse whilst education standards are falling compared with most other “first world” countries and immigration is out of control. Instead of addressing the real issues, we have instead Gay Marriage and plain packaging along with the continued advance of the separatist Maori agenda. It would be hard for Labour to be any worse, but no doubt they would try. Even so, I’m prepared to take the risk.

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  15. Pete George (22,804 comments) says:

    BROADCASTING ALLOCATIONS

    Eligible parties that intend to contest the general election can apply for an allocation by the Electoral Commission of free time for campaign addresses or money for election programmes broadcast by Television New Zealand and Radio New Zealand during the election period.

    http://www.elections.org.nz/parties-candidates/broadcasting/broadcasting-allocations

    According to Redbaiter if the Conservatives are true to their principles they won’t want us to pay for any of this for them.

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  16. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    Yes EAD, its possible that the advertisement was a criticism of John Key lead National as much as some spin for the Conservatives.

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  17. Scott (1,707 comments) says:

    Amazing advertising from the conservatives and as DPF said got a lot of free publicity from the media. I hope that the conservatives can also flesh out more of a vision as they head towards the election. There is a need for a party to represent voters of traditional morals that made this country great.
    Labour has long since abandoned the traditionally minded working class voter for the siren call of radical feminism, Maori separatism and gay rights. National has also decided the traditional voters of the rural sector are much less important than the urban latte drinkers who love every new progressive cause.
    I believe that a visionary leader of a conservative party to represent the disenfranchised thousands of traditionally minded kiwis could do very well indeed. The media would hate them but the public could turn to them in droves. Many New Zealanders are very uncomfortable with the social policies of both parties and would welcome a visionary voice that tapped into the yearning for the clear moral vision we once had.

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  18. Pete George (22,804 comments) says:

    How much of your own money did you spend on your campaign Mr George?

    I self funded both my campaigns. One was as an independent. For the other as far as I know UF put pretty much all it’s resources into Ohariu, I didn’t receive a cent of help from the party.

    I think campaigns are costly to any candidate, to a greater or lesser extent. Except for the Internet Party by the look of things.

    Redbaiter, are you ever going to put your money and your actions where your mouth has been for the last ten or twenty years and actually try anything? Or are you just waiting on a revolutionary that you can see from your house to do it all for you?

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  19. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    The point is that Colin Craig deserves credit for funding the Conservative Party from his own pocket, and the sneers of the left are just typical of their contempt for the rights of those who earn money to spend that money on what they want.

    Problems with election funding only come about because of the big govt framework the left promote.

    If govt is small and weak then there is no potential for cronyism and favouritism.

    With big govt favours can be bought and debts repaid. With socialism, corruption grows like tomatoes in a hothouse.

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  20. EAD (594 comments) says:

    @ redbaiter – strip away the rhetoric, the National Party ain’t what it says on the the tin. There is little doubt this ad was aimed directly at Nats. Whilst I disagree strongly with the Greens (communism wrapped up in environmentalism), at least they are up front about their goals, unlike our 2 main parties who follow what can best be described as a “globalist” agenda

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  21. mikenmild (10,686 comments) says:

    Reddy, so you see no danger in one individual funding his own party to the tune of millions of dollars in the hope of wielding influence over an extradition process?

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  22. seanmaitland (455 comments) says:

    @Pete George:

    “If they make an arrangement with National, or even if there is perception of an arrangement to assist them in winning an electorate”

    That would only be the case if they had no common ground with National, like the Mana-Internet party situation.

    Its not even comparable. Dotcom previously tried to get in bed with ACT, and when now hes on the far-left of the spectrum, and everyone involved has thrown their principles out the window to get in on the $$ he is spending.

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  23. WineOh (548 comments) says:

    The two closest parties in policy and ideology at the moment are National and Labour.

    And by the way Labour is polling, and the current trend, perhaps they should be the junior coalition partner to the Nats in forming a government? Imagine it, no Winston, no Greens, no Dunne, no Inter-Mana, we could actually get some good sh!t done.

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  24. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    Scott-

    Don’t forget John Key described his govt only a few weeks ago as “PROGRESSIVE”.

    In other words, the exact opposite of the Conservative Party it was founded as.

    And Key is proud of this transformation. A transformation others could quite easily call a betrayal.

    Key has also promoted progressives in National at the expense of Conservatives, and this transformation is even more profound in the Young Nationals, who are virtually indistinguishable from their Young Labour counterparts.

    In terms of principle, National are rotten to the core, and have turned their backs completely on the foundational beliefs that once brought them power for an unprecedented period and made this country one of the best in the world to live in-

    “To promote good citizenship and self-reliance; to combat communism and socialism; to maintain freedom of contract; to encourage private enterprise; to safeguard individual rights and the privilege of ownership; to oppose interference by the State in business, and State control of industry”.

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  25. Pete George (22,804 comments) says:

    Dotcom previously tried to get in bed with ACT.

    I’m not aware of him doing that. He’s tried to get into bed with Labour, Greens, NZ First and has ended up with Mana.

    I’m not sure how much common ground there is between Conservatives and National. There’s some significant differences on key issues.

    And after the cup of tea debacle National will be (or should be) very wary of any perception of a political arrangement.

    National is clearly seen as the strongest most financially competent party by a long shot. Colin Craig is seen as a bit of a joke by many, getting too close to that is likely to damage National’s brand.

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  26. mikenmild (10,686 comments) says:

    ‘made this country one of the best in the world to live in’
    That would actually be the reforms made by the first Labour government; reforms proudly maintained by its National successors.

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  27. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    Milky, if any danger exists it is because of the monstrous big govt edifice you and your ilk have built.

    With a small Conservative version of govt there would be no opportunity to apply influence because the operating framework would be too small to allow it.

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  28. mikenmild (10,686 comments) says:

    So in your small government the Minister of Justice wouldn’t have the final say on extraditions?

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  29. Pete George (22,804 comments) says:

    With a small Conservative version of govt there would be no opportunity to apply influence because the operating framework would be too small to allow it.

    Possibly, but not necessarily. One person governments can be difficult to influence for sure.

    But if you had a system of small government in place what if Hone Harawira was voted to lead it?

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  30. David Garrett (6,400 comments) says:

    Yoohoo! Red!! did you miss my question?

    HAVE YOU GOT 500 MEMBERS FOR YOUR PARTY YET?

    And if you are feeling all warm and benevolent: Who is the proposed leader of it, and are they under 65?

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  31. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    If voters are stupid enough to elect someone like Hone Harawira they deserve everything they get.

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  32. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    “Yoohoo! Red!! did you miss my question?”

    Not at all, but its completely off topic and if Mr Farrar adhered strictly enough to his rules, you’d have demerits and be banned for a few weeks.

    Typical of you to want to childishly indulge yourself at the expense of an orderly discussion.

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  33. wat dabney (3,671 comments) says:

    we respect any politician that stands up for what they believe in

    So, Hitler, Lenin, Mao Tse Tung and Osama bin Laden then.

    And specifically here the thuggish Bradford with her plans to violently impose her views on everyone.

    Idiots.

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  34. Pete George (22,804 comments) says:

    Not at all, but its completely off topic and if Mr Farrar adhered strictly enough to his rules, you’d have demerits and be banned for a few weeks.

    Typical of you to want to childishly indulge yourself at the expense of an orderly discussion.

    I don’t recall seeing anyone being demerited or banned for commenting “off topic”. There’s nothing about it in the Posting Policy.

    So this seems like a childish attempt at avoiding a question. And hypocritical considering comments made by Redbaiter on the thread.

    RB – you asked me a specific question about something unrelated to the post. I answered. Why can’t you answer questions asked of you?

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  35. David Garrett (6,400 comments) says:

    Red: What is the topic as it has evolved? It began as a discussion of an ad for the Conservatives which features a former Green MP. I would have said it has become, after 30 odd comments, “New political parties: their funding and alliances”. You yourself asked Mr George how much of his own money he had contributed to his own campaign. How was that “on topic” by your definition?

    Whether your party exists and how many members it has is directly “on topic”….but of course we all know the answer to the question: “Ten old malcontents at the Mount RSA”.

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  36. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    “after 30 odd comments,”

    Your question came after 6 comments.

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  37. Anthony (768 comments) says:

    Different rather than smart is how I would describe this ad – exactly what do the conservatives stand for? Despite claiming to be principled their policies are not coherent at least on the economic front.

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  38. mikenmild (10,686 comments) says:

    Quite right Anthony. I think the conservatives are a bit of a mishmash actually, offering different things to different believers.

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  39. David Garrett (6,400 comments) says:

    Red…Red…You are just making a bigger fool of yourself (Yes, we all know I am a crybaby, but that’s definitely “off topic”) Why don’t you just answer the question?

    I think you are probably above average IQ (anyone who can drill open hole like you did must be)…you must realise your silence in the face of a simple question speaks volumes? Here it is again:

    “How many members has YOUR new party got?”

    Mikey: All parties are ” a bit of a mishmash offering different things to different believers”…Keith Holyoake once said that he only agreed with about 80% of what his party had put in place. That may have been intentionally self deprecating, but I doubt it.

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  40. s.russell (1,563 comments) says:

    This advert makes me very angry. I am outraged by the phrase “any politician that stands up for what they believe in”. If only the advert had said “any politician who stands up for what they believe in”, I would have thought it was very clever. Obviously the Conservative party does not believe in grammar.

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  41. mikenmild (10,686 comments) says:

    You are probably right David. How many people voted National because they promised to leave WFF and interest-free student loans in place?

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  42. mikenmild (10,686 comments) says:

    s.russell
    Also note the use of ‘they’ instead of a singular personal pronoun…

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  43. wiseowl (760 comments) says:

    Anthony and MM .You have the ability to research and understand .
    You obviously are too lazy to do that or do not want to face the reality that the conservatives are making considerable traction because of many of the points made here.

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  44. minus (135 comments) says:

    No, the Consevative Party in fact think Bradford is wrong and mistaken in her thinking.

    Conservative Party policy is that the ban on smacking be removed with a return to parents being able to use reasonable force in correcting their children.

    This ad is opportunistic hyprocrisy

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  45. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    “Also note the use of ‘they’ instead of a singular personal pronoun…”

    That’s funny.

    The left, who have been most responsible for the destruction of education throughout the west, moaning about the outcomes.

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  46. gump (1,487 comments) says:

    It’s a pity that almost nobody reads the print edition of the newspaper these days.

    Very few people will see this.

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  47. David Garrett (6,400 comments) says:

    So that’s the answer Red…You have NO new party, and your eloquent rhetoric has failed to persuade even 500 people that your ideas are viable…Righto then…

    Mikey: In 2008 I suspect an equal number voted Nat because they said – and ACT supported them – that they were going to abolish the Maori seats

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  48. mikenmild (10,686 comments) says:

    Someone has to stand up for good grammar, Reddy. It the conservatives aren’t going to bother, who is?

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  49. Viking2 (11,128 comments) says:

    Bradford said she had no idea that she was about to feature in a Conservative Party ad, and agreed “our politics could not be further apart at every level”.

    She said she could “could see the humour” in the ad, but just as she didn’t like being manipulated by games played by the Left, “I don’t like being manipulated by games being played by the Right, either. This is game-playing by the Right.”
    ==================
    so the sour puss is still a sour puss.

    dvertising guru John Ansell, creator of the National Party’s highly effective 2005 “Iwi/Kiwi” billboard campaign, said the ad seemed like “an unusual start”, and that the Conservatives might be better off talking about their own policies, such as calling for binding referenda, or reversing the anti-smacking legislation.

    However, if it was just part of a broader campaign about the Conservatives being a party of principle, “that would make it a little easier to understand” .
    Ad Feedback

    Ansell said it was a “radical” and “original” ad which shows spirited thinking, “but it also allows the media, who have bagged Colin, to keep doing so.

    “But if he has a deep war chest and has time to flesh all this out, that’s fine.”

    - Sunday Star Times

    About sums it up.
    And why would you advertise in the Sunday Times? Who reads the thing?

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  50. David Garrett (6,400 comments) says:

    Viking: Actually you should buy a copy next week…For a while I had completely abandoned it (the paper version anyway) but under a new editor (about nine months ago I think) it has definitely improved…My biggest surprise is the fine writing by Colin Espiner…Funnily enough, now he is no longer obliged to pretend he is neutral, his columns have become good value.

    Giving the raddled hag Coddington another run is a major mistake though…

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  51. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    Dave, because I think you’re possibly worth a small bit more than a smidgen of goat shit, I’m going to use some of my valuable time to try and get you up to speed. Whereas I would not be the least surprised if these words fall on deaf ears, I’m still going to try Dave. For I believe in persistence, and never giving up.

    1) We are governed by a self appointed elite completely out of touch with what the man in the street wants.

    2) For decades we were denied the opportunity to speak out against this elite, because they controlled the debate. As a combination of media academia govt and bureaucracy, they held all of the cards.

    3) Then the internet arose. Suddenly the rabbit has the gun. It became possible to communicate and express opinion without being filtered and controlled by the aforementioned elite.

    4) So my plan is to influence public opinion using this media and Dave, never give up or surrender on that intent.

    5) We have the Tea Party in the US. We have the UKIP in the UK. Something will arise of a similar fashion in NZ Dave, and it will be because we, in our new found freedom, called for it to happen outside the filtered media of the self appointed elite.

    We will do it Dave. It will happen. We will bring about change. As much as you and other dinosaurs of the present system fight to prevent it, it will happen. Because we will never give in and we will never stop trying to cause the shift in public opinion that will bring that change.

    Sneer all you want. Its going to happen.

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  52. Unity (284 comments) says:

    I thought the ad was very clever. However, I’m just waiting for the ridiculous Press to come up with some zany theory about Colin Craig’s motives. They are probably working overtime to think of one as one will surely arise. Personally I hope he can thumb his nose at the lot of them come election day. Having said that I’m still not sure who is going to get my Party vote, even though I do know who is not.

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  53. David Garrett (6,400 comments) says:

    Not sneering at all Red…I would just like to know how many members your new party has…If the answer is that you have abandoned the idea of forming a party, then say so…

    I actually agree with at least some of what you have said above…at least in 2008, I think ACT was, in a very real sense, the “Tea Party” to the Nats’ Republicans…Quite where ACT is going to go policy wise this time I don’t know… Jamie Whyte is certainly very pro the kind of Law and Order policies I agree with, and he “gets” – as so many in and around the ACT camp don’t – that such policies are entirely consistent with large “L” Liberal principles…

    As for me, if having some understanding of what is possible and what isn’t makes me a “dinosaur” then so be it…

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  54. Pete George (22,804 comments) says:

    the National Party’s highly effective 2005 “Iwi/Kiwi” billboard campaign

    National didn’t do so well in 2005 so it can’t have been that effective.

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  55. nasska (10,659 comments) says:

    ….” I’m going to use some of my valuable time”…..

    Valuable!

    Sitting in a dayroom of a rundown home for the perpetually bewildered dribbling bile over a keyboard when you could be doing something productive like weaving cane baskets.

    Have another try Baity. :)

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  56. Pete George (22,804 comments) says:

    Something will arise of a similar fashion in NZ Dave, and it will be because we, in our new found freedom, called for it to happen outside the filtered media of the self appointed elite.

    We will do it Dave. It will happen. We will bring about change. As much as you and other dinosaurs of the present system fight to prevent it, it will happen. Because we will never give in and we will never stop trying to cause the shift in public opinion that will bring that change.

    Sneer all you want. Its going to happen.

    Most of the happening seems to be rising on the left at the moment. McCarten is in a position of influence in Labour’s campaign. Harawira and Harre will be leading a new campaign party and Mana Party secretary Hehir (a close friend and union associate of McCarten’s) is also on the campaign committee.

    They also have the “new found” freedom of the internet and intend to use it extensively.

    And they have $3,000,000 in their war chest.

    Meanwhile the other Red team…

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  57. David Garrett (6,400 comments) says:

    Now now Nasska, play nicely…It’s not everyone who gets a permanent slot at the corner table of the Mt Maunganui RSA…

    Which reminds me (Just quickly) can anyone tell me how “Mount Maunganui” became known by a different Maori name altogether? Was “Maunganui” not “Maori” enough??

    PG: right enough…aside from Craig and what he MIGHT achieve there doesn’t seem to be that much energy in the right just now…although ACT could yet surprise with their new model…

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  58. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    Nasska, so many of your comments just make strawmen that you then beat about.

    You’re worthless.

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  59. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    It will never be ACT Dave because they are and have been part of the present dysfunctional paradigm for too long.

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  60. Judith (7,591 comments) says:

    The ad is catchy and certainly puts the conservatives into the limelight, however, I am not sure how some of their voter base would feel about being aligned with Sue Bradford. The one thing Sue isn’t is Conservative – well at least not the Sue Bradford I know – and I would be very very surprised to see Sue compromise her values just to have a go at the IP/Mana party by default.

    She didn’t agree with what they were doing, made that clear and left – but doubt very much she would sell herself out to Colin Craig. Colin likes to ‘buy’ his position and SB is not one who likes to ‘sell’ hers.

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  61. gump (1,487 comments) says:

    @Redbaiter

    I will translate your comments for the benefit of the Kiwiblog community:

    1) We are governed by a self appointed elite completely out of touch with what the man in the street wants.

    Translation = We are not governed by Redbaiter, and this upsets him.

    2) For decades we were denied the opportunity to speak out against this elite, because they controlled the debate. As a combination of media academia govt and bureaucracy, they held all of the cards.

    Translation = After decades of writing angry letters to his local newspaper, Redbaiter has not managed to get a single one published

    3) Then the internet arose. Suddenly the rabbit has the gun. It became possible to communicate and express opinion without being filtered and controlled by the aforementioned elite.

    Translation = Redbaiter will make you listen now that he “has the gun”.

    4) So my plan is to influence public opinion using this media and Dave, never give up or surrender on that intent.

    Translation = Redbaiter will use the Internet to spam his opponents into submission.

    5) We have the Tea Party in the US. We have the UKIP in the UK. Something will arise of a similar fashion in NZ Dave, and it will be because we, in our new found freedom, called for it to happen outside the filtered media of the self appointed elite.

    Translation = Redbaiter can’t think of any original ideas for a political movement, so he will copy what people are doing overseas.

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  62. Judith (7,591 comments) says:

    @ mikenmild (9,681 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 10:42 am

    I had an interesting conversation last night about just who is funding the IP/Mana party.

    Whilst the money is at present (presumably) in the possession of KDC – is it in fact ‘his’ money? That money (if proven) was from the proceeds of crime – and therefore on principle, isn’t really his. The person (tongue in cheek) suggested it is in fact the USA is funding the IP/Mana party, because that is who will lose out on that amount (if they win the case).

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  63. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    Not sneering at all Red…I would just like to know how many members your new party has…

    Well, no surprises there.

    As I expected, with Mr. Garret it fell on deaf ears.

    Never mind, others quite clearly got the point. Or at least started thinking about it.

    As they always do.

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  64. kowtow (7,614 comments) says:

    Red

    John Key described National as progressive?

    No surprises coming from JK.He has described New Zealand as “multicultural”.

    Progressive is simply code for left wing social policies. Tony Blair and Clinton were happy to describe themselves as ‘progressive”.

    Very dangerous.

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  65. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    “John Key described National as progressive?”

    Yes, in a tweet.

    As I said, arrogantly giving the finger to his right wing critics.

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  66. nasska (10,659 comments) says:

    David Garrett

    Your comment re “Mount” Maunganui reminds me of the latest crap from the “treaty” settlement with the local Wairarapa tribal authorities. They have made a non negotiable demand that the Rimutakas be renamed Remutakas. According to the, naturally sympathetic, article in the local bird cage liner the word Rimutaka has no meaning in Maori yet the replacement refers to some chief parking his arse up on the range while pondering about life’s injustices.

    Apparently someone ran off with his wife & this is so cloaked in meaning that every map & every signpost will be changed (at our expense) to appease the Taniwha.

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  67. Anthony (768 comments) says:

    Wiseowl is not so wise if he/she doesn’t realise the huge cost of making the first $25,000 tax free – and the Conservatives don’t really say how they will fund it! They don’t like foreign investment, and they don’t like the government getting out areas where it shouldn’t be because they don’t support asset sales. Where is their economic vision?

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  68. minus (135 comments) says:

    Judith – your comment that Kim Dotcom funding may actually be the proceeds of crime is interesting.

    It is not as if those, who will use this funding to influence the outcome of the Election, are ignorant of the possibility that the money comes from copyright infringement, fraud and racketeering.

    The irony is that sufficient frozen funds are released to allow Dotcom to continue a lifestyle well above normal for someone awaiting trial, but to have millions to buy a couple of political parties as well :-)

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  69. Pete George (22,804 comments) says:

    “…although ACT could yet surprise with their new model…”

    They’ve got a lot of work to do.

    Yesterday I was talking to someone in their twenties and at least average in awareness of news and what goes on in politics. According to them:

    Not very keen on National but think they could be the only viable option.
    Labour are in disarray.
    Greens too big an economic risk.
    Internet-MANA are less as a whole than the small sum of parts.
    Colin Craig is good for a laugh but not good for a vote.
    Wasn’t aware ACT had a new leader.

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  70. nasska (10,659 comments) says:

    Anthony

    ….”Where is their economic vision?”….

    They don’t really have one & this says heaps about their ‘raison d’etre’. They are conservative in a moral sense & any policies that fall outside this area are add ons designed to cobble together a pocket of votes here & a couple over there.

    They exist to represent the dinosaurs who believe that children should have God beaten into them & little else.

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  71. itstricky (1,558 comments) says:

    …and the message the Conservatives are trying to get across is that they are a party of principle, not pragmatism.

    I can’t wait for the bit where you tell everyone that parties have to be pragmatic, and have to put aside their principles etc to get stuff done. You constantly praise JK for doing deals and being a pragmatic guy who realises “what real life is” and “puts aside principles to get stuff done”. As ya man Pete said in the second comment – essentially. At that point The Consvs. will look like a bunch of na-nas.

    It’s far beyond whacky that they don’t like Sue for standing up for her smacking principles, nor that there’s not really a lot of difference between Craig’s funding of The Consvs. and DotCom’s funding of The IP (assuming he’s not destined for jail any time soon).

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  72. Scott (1,707 comments) says:

    nasska I find myself in agreement with you. But your comments about local Maori demanding name changes only confirm Reddy’s point;that we are governed by two parties who have the same progressive outlook, in this case Maori rights. National has continued and accelerated the gravy train that is the Waitangi tribunal which includes recognition of Maori spirituality such as Taniwha, the ability to change local place names to suit Maori preferences and of course the payment of millions of dollars of tax payer funds to Maori tribes.
    Only a return to more conservative values will stop the rot. That’s why we need to consider alternatives such as the Conservative party.

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  73. OneTrack (2,598 comments) says:

    EAD – “It would be hard for Labour to be any worse, but no doubt they would try. Even so, I’m prepared to take the risk.”

    Labour have already proved they are more than capable of stuffing anything up. However, this time they have a few partners who will really be able to do some damage – Internet and greens. A clusterf$$k of epic proportions. And Norman, Turei and Harre have made it clear who will be in the coalition’s driving seat.

    I understand that you are unhappy with national, but this sounds like cutting off your head to spite your face.

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  74. David Garrett (6,400 comments) says:

    PG: That doesn’t really surprise me…its damn difficult getting the message out when the MSM is so hostile…

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  75. itstricky (1,558 comments) says:

    National has continued and accelerated the gravy train that is the Waitangi tribunal which includes recognition of Maori spirituality such as Taniwha, the ability to change local place names to suit Maori preferences and of course the payment of millions of dollars of tax payer funds to Maori tribes.

    Because they were due it, under this little thing called a “Treaty”. I think you’ll find they all accelerated the “gravy train” such as they could accelerate signing off and closing up all the claims – zip, zilch, stitched it all up.

    Changing local place names – meh – hysteria and hype.

    Only a return to more conservative values will stop the rot.

    I doubt it. Isn’t it all going to be sown up, at this rate by late 2015/early 2016. Craig will have barely sat his awkward backside on a chair by then. Their policy doesn’t suggest they’ll slash it completely, either.

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  76. OneTrack (2,598 comments) says:

    Pete – “Colin Craig is seen as a bit of a joke by many, …”

    I assume you mean the Left Stream Media, who are doing their best to knobble any possible coalition partners for that evil John Key.

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  77. Viking2 (11,128 comments) says:

    minus (92 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 12:55 pm

    Judith – your comment that Kim Dotcom funding may actually be the proceeds of crime is interesting.

    It is not as if those, who will use this funding to influence the outcome of the Election, are ignorant of the possibility that the money comes from copyright infringement, fraud and racketeering.

    The irony is that sufficient frozen funds are released to allow Dotcom to continue a lifestyle well above normal for someone awaiting trial, but to have millions to buy a couple of political parties as well :-)
    ====================================================
    Those funds are locked up so one needs to assume that these are new funds generated from his new enterprises. Says something for his ability to get stuff done. Unlike our useless govt. But then he subscribes I suggest to free enterprise. You know that ideal that the Nats. used to embrace before they became socialists with the rest.

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  78. itstricky (1,558 comments) says:

    Pete – “Colin Craig is seen as a bit of a joke by many, …”

    I assume you mean the Left Stream Media, who are doing their best to knobble any possible coalition partners for that evil John Key

    Quite right. I’m sure it’s nothing to do with the fact he’s a smacking, moon gazing, conspiracy loving, tight wad God botherer.

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  79. Odakyu-sen (440 comments) says:

    …and the message the Conservatives are trying to get across is that they are a party of principle, not pragmatism.

    Principles, like a compass bearing, can get you killed if the heading is wrong. There are times when you have to look out the window and see what lies ahead.

    On the other hand, principles can help you to plot a course when everyone around you seems to be lost.

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  80. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    “They exist to represent the dinosaurs who believe that children should have God beaten into them & little else.”

    More strawmen.

    Just one of the demented idiots who plague this forum with false allegations and delusional concepts that are the makings of a damaged mind.

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  81. Unity (284 comments) says:

    Itstricky, are you also part of the Left Stream Media? You certainly sound so if you agree with those ridiculous comments that were coined by the Left Stream Media and bear absolutely no relation to reality whatsoever.

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  82. Judith (7,591 comments) says:

    @ itstricky (1,335 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 1:37 pm

    Quite right. I’m sure it’s nothing to do with the fact he’s a smacking, moon gazing, conspiracy loving, tight wad God botherer.

    :-) ;-)

    @ Unity (125 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    Why presume, just because the media also have this image, that anyone else that has the same opinion, must have got it from the media? Just listening to the man’s comments from his own mouth is enough to draw those conclusions. One doesn’t have to read a news report to get that impression.

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  83. itstricky (1,558 comments) says:

    Itstricky, are you also part of the Left Stream Media? You certainly sound so if you agree with those ridiculous comments that were coined by the Left Stream Media and bear absolutely no relation to reality whatsoever.

    I’m quite humbled that you could think that I was anyone of importance what-so-ever. I am subsequently bemused by the fact that you can’t see the Craig is a nut bar, regardless of what the media “coined”. It’s plainly obvious.

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  84. itstricky (1,558 comments) says:

    Just listening to the man’s comments from his own mouth is enough to draw those conclusions. One doesn’t have to read a news report to get that impression.

    SNAP.

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  85. MikeG (392 comments) says:

    So a millionaire funding a fledgling party applauds the principles of someone who out of principle walked away from a millionaire funding a new party. Go figure

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  86. Scott (1,707 comments) says:

    I’ve met Colin Craig and found him to be a straightforward fellow, a family man, business man, the kind of fellow who was once well represented among New Zealand men. In fact he is quite unremarkable in most of his views which are of the morally traditional kind that was the norm for most of our history. The media like to portray him as a fruit loop which is what they do to all politicians that stand athwart the progressive agenda and cry ‘stop’.

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  87. Judith (7,591 comments) says:

    @ Scott (1,640 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 2:17 pm

    But it is not just the media’s portrayal of him that forms that opinion. The man comes across as a fruit loop when he talks. I realise it is subjective – and maybe there are some that think he comes complete with his own time-machine that can drag us all back to a period where a handshake sealed a deal, and leaving welts on a child was a sign of good parenting – but I doubt he can do that – he is simply campaigning on nostalgia – a great idea, as I am sure many would love to go back to those times – however practically, it will never happen.

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  88. eszett (2,333 comments) says:

    So a millionaire, who is spending trucksloads of money on his pet political party and trying to get a dirty deal to get into parliament, is not happy that another millionaire is spending trucksloads of money on his pet political party and is trying to get a dirty deal to get into parliament.

    The word for that is hypocrisy.

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  89. itstricky (1,558 comments) says:

    In fact he is quite unremarkable in most of his views which are of the morally traditional kind that was the norm for most of our history.

    The world moves on.

    The media like to portray him as a fruit loop which is what they do to all politicians that stand athwart the progressive agenda and cry ‘stop’.

    Or more simply, there’s bunch of people out there thinking that “tapping an eight year on the bottom” or “having no formal policy on chemtrails” is weird, rather than progressive. I’m not sure that’s the media who are saying “weird”. But then again, if you’ve “got no policy on chemtrails” it’s equally viable that youve “got no policy about wether the media is a left-wing stitch up” so ANYTHING is possible…

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  90. itstricky (1,558 comments) says:

    You’d have to say that variations on the “being responsible for yourself; it’s no one else’s problem; own the problems you create” is definitely a traditional moral (and one that I believe in) that the Consvs. believe in. But then, you stand up, say something silly and all the sympathisers yell in unison: “Oh, that’s because it’s a left wing media beat up”. In fact Craig himself has used that line, hasn’t he?

    So what’s up with that? Blame the media when you say something silly? Oh… I’m the victim here…

    Incidentally, your man Whyte did that one right didn’t he? He said something stupid then immediately issued a “I said something stupid, please forgive me, please don’t hold it against me, that’s not what I meant”

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  91. dime (9,424 comments) says:

    i know you losers on the left arent the brightest bunch…

    any previous MMP deal is not the same as the scam being run by the fat german and his pet maori.

    Anderton, ACT!, Dung still have to win an electorate seat. The greens still have to get over 5%.

    fat german with the stroke victim candidate just campaign for a few sad old communists (and the young lol) and they are in on the back of their pet maori.

    try this exercise.

    say Dime is an american oil guy. hes in trouble for polluting or some shit. he decides to pump millions into a new party and then coat tail into parliment by joining up with ACT. Dime decides to run redbaiter as the candidiate.

    the “right” media defend this by saying – its the same as anderton and labour used to do.

    youd agree with the media, right? tui ad.

    you commies would go apeshit

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  92. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    “The media like to portray him as a fruit loop which is what they do to all politicians that stand athwart the progressive agenda and cry ‘stop’.”

    Just look at the record.

    Anyone who represents a serious threat to the left’s social and political hegemony becomes a target of ridicule and denigration.

    The obvious conclusion to be drawn from this is the more the left ridicule them, the more we should support them.

    We’ll never get the stinking totalitarian left out of our lives if we allow them to tell us who we should vote for.

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  93. eszett (2,333 comments) says:

    you commies would go apeshit

    Seems to me that you right-wingers are the ones who are going apeshit right now.

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  94. nasska (10,659 comments) says:

    ….”. Dime decides to run redbaiter as the candidiate.”…..

    The Mason Clinic becomes Party HQ. :)

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  95. dime (9,424 comments) says:

    “Seems to me that you right-wingers are the ones who are going apeshit right now.” – yes, we are. as we should be.

    as should ANYONE who cant stand our electoral process being severly corrupted by some fat german and some racist pet maori

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  96. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    The Eggshit and Narsekissa tag team.

    Tells you all you need to know about the left.

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  97. Judith (7,591 comments) says:

    Eggs shit?

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  98. Unity (284 comments) says:

    The difference between Colin Craig and seasoned politicians is that he is a decent honest very ordinary person. He is not a political animal. People can’t fault that so they stick ridiculous labels on him which just don’t fit if you have ever met the man. He has only put himself into the political arena because, like many of us, he’s fed up with the direction in which this country is heading. Referenda are of no consequence and just get ignored. The people’s wishes are ignored at every turn. I am interested in a man who will do his best to insist the voices of the people are listened to and politicians do not put their own agendas before our voices. I applaud the man for sticking his head above the parapet and who is willing to take the flak from people who have no idea as to what makes him tick.

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  99. mikenmild (10,686 comments) says:

    dime and Reddy up a tree…

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  100. mikenmild (10,686 comments) says:

    Unity
    There is no need for people to stick labels on Colin Craig. He does a very fine line in self-ridicule already.
    http://metromag.co.nz/current-affairs/uncle-colin/

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  101. Judith (7,591 comments) says:

    @ Redbaiter (6,783 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    Anyone who represents a serious threat to the left’s social and political hegemony becomes a target of ridicule and denigration. — “The Eggshit and Narsekissa tag team”.

    So Red, what is your excuse for doing the same to anyone that doesn’t follow your philosophy? Or is it a case of ‘when I do it it’s acceptable, but when you do it, it’s not’ ? If that is so, then why is it acceptable for you?

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  102. Redbaiter (7,605 comments) says:

    Eggshit and Narsekissa are no serious threat to anything, except NZ’s rating on the international IQ charts.

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  103. Judith (7,591 comments) says:

    @ Unity (126 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 3:01 pm

    I agree with much of what you say, however, the fact he is an ordinary man, makes him unsuitable for politics. To be a politician you can’t be ‘ordinary’. If by some chance he did make it, they will eat him alive – he will do or say something that can be perceived wrong, and he’ll be left devastated.

    Just look at our past successful political leaders – none of them could ever be described as ‘ordinary’.

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  104. nasska (10,659 comments) says:

    Bravo Baity…..I haven’t read that one for months.

    Now how about Judith’s query…..probably stock comment #178 will cover it. :)

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  105. Unity (284 comments) says:

    Well, Judith, the political animals have been a total disaster for our country so perhaps it might be better to have a nice ordinary guy especially one who is honest and has principles which is sadly lacking at the moment. However, I think his appearance belies his strengths. He’s not anybody’s patsy and don’t forget he’s a very successful business man and self-made. He’s in there warts and all for exactly what I think is wrong and worrying about the direction in which our country is heading so I’m sure he will get a lot of encouragement.

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  106. mikenmild (10,686 comments) says:

    Why on Earth would you expect Colin Craig, of all poeple, to be a much more successful politician than ‘the political animals’?

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  107. itstricky (1,558 comments) says:

    and all for exactly what I think is wrong and worrying about the direction in which our country is heading…

    I guess you’re a big fan of God’s gonna cut you down, then, and maybe not so much a fan of Jesus, I was evil, or I like you so much better when you’re naked?

    Good on ya, someone’s gotta have some morals around here. We should home-school all kids – then they wouldn’t have to step out in the evil world. There we go, sorted. Let’s move on to curing pollution next. Or should we start with curing homosexuality?

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  108. Viking2 (11,128 comments) says:

    dime (9,027 comments) says:
    June 2nd, 2014 at 2:56 pm

    “Seems to me that you right-wingers are the ones who are going apeshit right now.” – yes, we are. as we should be.

    as should ANYONE who cant stand our electoral process being severly corrupted by some fat german and some racist pet maori
    =========================

    Well dime they didn’t make the rules. You can blame that useless Bolger and his mates for that.
    and just like you always obey them they are doing the same.

    By the way, how is your netflix working out now those nice men in the yankee land have bullied them into submission over you using netflix and others?

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  109. Tauhei Notts (1,607 comments) says:

    Nasska should go back to his garden.
    He referred to the Rimutakas. He should know that in Maori the plural is the same as the singular. Transport signage people recently had to change the signs that referred to the Kaimais, that is, the range between Waikato and the Bay of Plenty. Change them to Kaimai!
    I get the impression that Nasska knows a lot more about horticulture than he knows about horiculture.

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  110. nasska (10,659 comments) says:

    ….”Nasska knows a lot more about horticulture than he knows about horiculture”…..

    Highly possible Tauhei…..highly possible! :)

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  111. Harriet (4,513 comments) says:

    Why on Earth would you expect Colin Craig, of all poeple, to be a much more successful politician than ‘the political animals’?

    For a start, he understands the Law of Nature, something that all the ‘political animals’ failed to show us during the smacking and may garrage debates – and something you practise milky. :cool:

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  112. dime (9,424 comments) says:

    Viking – Netflix is still working great.

    Hulu had a crackdown I believe

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  113. itstricky (1,558 comments) says:

    For a start, he understands the Law of Nature

    Wow, the “you should smack your kids because monkeys do” justification. Hadn’t heard that one before now.

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  114. ChardonnayGuy (1,132 comments) says:

    I gather Sue B is somewhat bemused about Colin C’s unexpected endorsement. However, there are problems with being a ‘party of principle’ if it means that the principles in question render a political party unelectable viz Alliance 2.0 after the fratricidal case of McCarten/Anderton oedipal conflict that consumed it, the Aotearoa Legalise Cannabis Party, Libertarianz, and all six predecessor fundamentalist Christian microparties to the Conservatives, from Christian Heritage to the Christian Democrats to the Christian Coalition to Future New Zealands II and III to the Kiwi Party. Take a closer look at the Conservative Party’s real agenda on its website and one still gets a hodgepodge of uncosted, mixed policies. It is not the straightforwardly fiscally conservative party that some on the centre-right hope for.

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  115. ROJ (85 comments) says:

    Well put ChardonnayGuy, my views exactly.

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  116. deadrightkev (276 comments) says:

    Pete George

    “National is clearly seen as the strongest most financially competent party by a long shot. Colin Craig is seen as a bit of a joke by many, getting too close to that is likely to damage National’s brand”

    National don’t stand for anything that is the problem, nor do Labour anymore. The National brand is smiling Mr Key. When he is gone then what? Simon Bridges? Gimme strength.

    At least Colin Craig and the Conservatives stand for something and its called democracy. I suspect the voter will get to hear more about that unheard of philosophy as we get nearer the election. You should read up on it.

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  117. Unity (284 comments) says:

    The mockers will eventually have the sneers wiped off their faces. Mark my words!! Just keep an open mind up until nearer the election. All the put-downs of Colin Craig only serve to put down the messenger. Obviously he is viewed as a serious threat otherwise people wouldn’t bother making up the nonsense they do.

    How right deadrightkev is about National’s brand solely being the smiling face of Mr Key. He should go on the stage actually as I think he does stand up comedy much better than his running of our country. Or is it the running down of our country? He certainly doesn’t have our best interests at heart – only his best interests.

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  118. Unity (284 comments) says:

    Yes, but NK, there are principles and principles and trade-offs and trade-offs in a coalition arrangement. Key (Shonkey!!) went too far in 2008 and made the enormous mistake of going into coalition with the Maori Party when he didn’t need to. He had the numbers without them. I grant you he did need to in 2011 but not in 2008. The whole country is now Maorified in a big way, with this race (only part-race in reality given all the blending over the decades) highlighted way above any other culture. We actually are now an apartheid State. Key should have unified the whole country and said no more special treatment based on race, but need only, and that we are all equal under the law. He would then have retained my respect – I voted for his Party in 2008 but never since.

    We are now spending billions of dollars in fraudulent settlements which are based on some invented Principles put into law by Geoffery Palmer in 2006. All true settlements were completed years ago. The system continues to be rorted with ever more fanciful claims that defy belief. It’s strange how in the 1880′s there were only 9 claims but today there are hundreds. Makes one wonder doesn’t it. Greed is great for exercising the mind and when you have appeasing politicians in the mix – that’s where much of taxpayers money is going. Key disgusts me big time.

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