General Debate 6 August 2014

August 6th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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184 Responses to “General Debate 6 August 2014”

  1. ciaron (1,441 comments) says:

    DPF, how do you feel about Kelvin Davis not wanting to use your money for campaigning?

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  2. flash2846 (289 comments) says:

    Pisses me off!
    If National announced free bus rides for students, immediately the media would go on about “rich kids” getting a hand out but because the idea comes from the left it is faultless.
    Students generally make no secret of being easily bribeable. National should consider backing this policy to some degree.

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  3. Pete George (23,680 comments) says:

    Act candidate for Dunedin North (and Act board member) Guy McCallum has officially resigned and withdrawn his candidacy as the result of “the development of a race relations policy” that “blindsided” him.

    Act candidate resigns over race relations policy

    This publicity may help or hinder Act. It could also adversely affect National’s chances.

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  4. hj (7,062 comments) says:

    2012 Poll show(ed)s New Zealanders want(ed) tighter rules on foreign ownership of land
    02-20-2012 16:43

    The 3 News Reid Research poll asked respondents: “Do you want the rules tightened to make it more difficult for foreigners to buy land if they live overseas?”
    The results showed 76 percent said “Yes” including 69 percent of supporters of Prime Minister John Key’s ruling National Party while 21 percent said “No,” 3 News reported.
    However, the report said that Key responded that New Zealand was a already difficult place for foreigners to buy land.

    http://english.cntv.cn/20120220/118028.shtml

    last night on Campbell Live same question but blunter:
    16000 respondents
    No 6%
    Yes 94%

    NZIER
    we need FDI in farmland, one reason being that we need foreign investment to finance our mortgages.
    http://nzier.org.nz/static/media/filer_public/7d/f0/7df0f7b7-35ed-4226-bfd9-fcbf64f0f2bb/nzier_insight_17_-_in_defense_of_foreign_investment.pdf

    A bit weird?

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  5. Viking2 (11,553 comments) says:

    Pete George (22,911 comments) says:
    August 6th, 2014 at 8:11 am

    Act candidate for Dunedin North (and Act board member) Guy McCallum has officially resigned and withdrawn his candidacy as the result of “the development of a race relations policy” that “blindsided” him.

    Act candidate resigns over race relations policy

    This publicity may help or hinder Act. It could also adversely affect National’s chances.
    ===========================
    Good riddance then as he clearly had no idea of ACT policy that has been around for years.

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  6. flipper (4,196 comments) says:

    ciaron (1,324 comments) says:

    August 6th, 2014 at 8:05 am

    DPF, how do you feel about Kelvin
    ****

    I cannot speak for DPF or Whale, but it seems to me that the rainbow/union mob have decreed, and Davis has obeyed. But the point has been made, the schism opened. :-)

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  7. Yvette (2,845 comments) says:

    “I’ve made it clear there will not be Internet-Mana in a government I lead.”
    – David Cunliffe

    No, actually, this is not clear.
    Will Labour form an agreement of supply or support with Internet MANA, to allow it to form a Government if it has the numbers, which DOES mean a coalition agreement.

    Spell it out Cunliffe, as you really haven’t, so far.

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  8. dirty harry (513 comments) says:

    ppfftt 16000 brain dead followers @50 cents each..good coin for Telecom and Campbell.

    Scientific, I think not…and I call bullshit anyway on 16000..Campbell wouldn’t have 16000 viewers.

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  9. Viking2 (11,553 comments) says:

    hj (6,437 comments) says:
    August 6th, 2014 at 8:15 am

    2012 Poll show(ed)s New Zealanders want(ed) tighter rules on foreign ownership of land
    02-20-2012 16:43

    The 3 News Reid Research poll asked respondents: “Do you want the rules tightened to make it more difficult for foreigners to buy land if they live overseas?”
    The results showed 76 percent said “Yes” including 69 percent of supporters of Prime Minister John Key’s ruling National Party while 21 percent said “No,” 3 News reported.
    However, the report said that Key responded that New Zealand was a already difficult place for foreigners to buy land.

    http://english.cntv.cn/20120220/118028.shtml

    last night on Campbell Live same question but blunter:
    16000 respondents
    No 6%
    Yes 94%
    ===================
    NZ er’s obviously like a communist Government that disallows them to own assets that can can buy and sell as they see fit.

    Next we will be back to the Govt. telling us what types of cars we can buy and when.

    Fucking stupid people.

    And of course State Controlled pay packets. Won’t ya luv that.

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  10. Nookin (3,455 comments) says:

    Labour does not need any sort of deal with Harawira. Cunliffe knows that those on the extreme left are going to support him on critical issues come hell or high water. Everything suggests that if there is no formal agreement, at the very least there is a tacit understanding that labour is not going out to win TTT. It is also more than apparent that Davies has been thrown under a bus big time.

    I see Cunliffe again rabbiting on about canning the Davis campaign that because it was not “positive”. I would have thought that eliminating corruption from New Zealand politics would be a positive step but I appreciate that Cunliffe has an entirely different viewpoint if it comes to putting him in the prime ministerial seat.

    I also note his repeated mandate to avoid “gotcha” politics. Somehow I have difficulty reconciling that position with his somewhat pointed jibe this morning that Dotcom made a donation to an ACT candidate. Not only is he a hypocrite, he cannot even sledge honestly.

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  11. hj (7,062 comments) says:

    John Stuart Mill had a different take on property:

    “When the sacredness of property is talked of, it should always be remembered that any such sacredness does not belong in the same degree to landed property. No man made the land: it is the inheritance of the whole species.”

    “The land of Ireland, the land of every country, belongs to the people of that country.”

    As David Parker says (on the program): you couldn’t buy land up until the 1980’s. It was something we deregulated; we shouldn’t have done it”.
    That would have solved everything (although national would just fast-track residency).

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  12. Odakyu-sen (732 comments) says:

    “Do you want the rules tightened to make it more difficult for foreigners to buy land if they live overseas?”

    What a poorly worded question.

    What exactly is meant by “tightened.” (A little or a lot?)

    In addition, how do you define “live overseas”? (How many days of the year? Total days? Continuous days?)

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  13. oldpark (373 comments) says:

    Watching the Labour Party channel TVNZ last nights news.Sue Bradfords daughter a dyed blonde was feeding us the usual nightly Labour Party election propaganda.She said Gomerel Cunliffe would not do any deals with the racist Harawira/Dotcon criminal party.Rumour has it he already has,and also downgraded the Labour candidate Mr DAVIS.Seems TVNZ Labour party sycophants are hell bent on misleading the voting public,in fact, they seem to think the viewers heads are made of chocolate,and their intelligence can be moulded in the direction TVNZ espouses,to support Gomerel Cunliffe,a prolific liar.

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  14. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    Great discussion over on the Burning Platform about what was it that caused you to “Wake Up”

    http://www.theburningplatform.com/2014/07/31/what-woke-you-up/

    For me, I guess I was a contrarian from a young age and read books including Atlas Shrugged, 1984, Animal Farm & Brave New World before I’d left high school and knew that they were telling a story of all not being right in the world.

    I was badly duped in 2008 when I voted for the blue team believing they would reverse the damage and destruction of the red team from 1999-2008. Little did I expect them to double down on the damage done.

    After being disappointed time and time again about the National’s inaction to fix Labours wrong, I reached a point of realisation that they couldn’t give a shit less about their purported ideologies. The blue team doesn’t care about freedom or fiscal discipline. Those things would handcuff them and diminish their power. The red team doesn’t care about the little guy. They hate the little guy the second he goes from being a concept to an actual person they have to encounter at a rally or somewhere.

    I guess ultimately what really woke up though was when I watched the documentary “The secret of Oz” and read the book “The Creature from Jekyll Island”. After that, you see the blue/red team divide for exactly for what it is – a complete and utter sham.

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  15. hj (7,062 comments) says:

    Violent, Forced Evictions in China on the Rise: Report
    http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/china-news/violent-forced-evictions-in-china-on-the-rise-report-302787.html

    v’s bohemian pop stars, movie directors and lifestylers.

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  16. Colville (2,298 comments) says:

    Any poll taken by TV3 is slanted before it starts because only lefty fuckwits watch TV3 shite.

    The only time I have watched a Campbell episode was when Campbell got pwned by Key. Campbell was doing his Thunderbirds flailing arms impression before packing up his paperwork and going off in a huff. Was as funny as all fuck.

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  17. Yvette (2,845 comments) says:

    It would good to see Kelvin Davis, at the latest date permissible, resign from Labour and stand as an Independent, open to coalition as much with National, as Labour, if he chooses.

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  18. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    @Viking2 8:19 am

    I agree with you on 99% of your posts as you have one of the best understanding of economics on this site but I respectfully disagree with you on this point.

    No problems on foreigners buying secondary forms of wealth in the country (i.e. business, manufacturers, fishing boats with quotas, leases to farm land) but it is morally wrong and economically destructive to sell off primary wealth to those who are not citizens of said country. It is the path to economic serfdom. Read the section titled “”What is Wealth?” in the article below:

    http://www.peakprosperity.com/crashcourse/accelerated

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  19. Igotta Numbum (465 comments) says:

    Who misses out on the list, if Kelvin Davis wins his seat?

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  20. Pete George (23,680 comments) says:

    As per Yvette

    “I’ve made it clear there will not be Internet-Mana in a government I lead.”
    – David Cunliffe

    Internet-Mama may cease to exist after the election. The options for Labour will be the Mana Party and the Internet Party separately. And of course Greens and NZ First. And Conservtives if they manage to get in. And the Maori Party if they survive.

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  21. Viking2 (11,553 comments) says:

    I see all the Networks etc have decided to gang up on Slingshot. Not allowing them to advertize on their Networks.
    Claiming the ” royalties” are not paid to this region. Think I’m right in saying royalties are p[aid to the rights holder thru Netflix.
    Slingshot will do to them what Uber is doing to our over price transportation system.

    In Tauranga we are plagued with over mostly empty over sized buses, subsidized by 80% per ride by the rate payer and now those oversize buses are causing traffic problems in area’s that were never designed for the bloody things. Now the stupid pricks at Council, who are in charge of this bullshit, want the ratepayer to spend more money to fix the problem rather than getting rid of the problem.
    Roll on Uber Tauranga.

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  22. Colville (2,298 comments) says:

    Igotta Bumbum.

    Depending on what polls you believe Labour are close to having no list MPs at all.

    As it becomes clearer that the fix is in in TTT I believe that Labour will leak votes to DotCons party as a vote of no confidence in Cun*liffes leadership. Labour heading below 20% !

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  23. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    O noes…
    Look what Global warming ™ and its evil sidekick CO2 are doing this time!
    Is there anything CO2 can’t do?

    Climate change will increase inequality between men and women without action, says Finland’s former climate chief

    The introduction of gender equality as a principle in the new (Climate) agreement is of the utmost importance, as explained here and also because the convention itself does not include gender provision, unlike the other major Rio conventions on biodiversity and desertification.

    http://www.rtcc.org/2014/08/05/why-effective-climate-policy-needs-women-and-vice-versa/#sthash.eMiDozBx.dpuf

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  24. flipper (4,196 comments) says:

    There he goes again, dumbass hj….rabbiting on about migration et al, and equating a name on paper with invasion and conquest.

    Mill, good though he was for his times, made comments related to the times. He could not foresee the extent of education in the west come 2014; he could not have foreseen the UN Declaration on Human Rights (Article 17, in particular).

    Moreover, in a modern context, hj’s extraordinary analysis and beliefs are exposed by Nowak.

    As Wilson says:

    *** “In his history of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the Austrian human rights lawyer, Manfred Nowak , wrote about how Articles 19 and 20, the Articles about freedom of thought and expression, perfectly demonstrate the tension between the socialist and liberal traditions on human rights.

    “According to Nowak:

    The liberal view, every individual has the freedom to form his or her own opinions free from external indoctrination and to defend them in the “free market of ideas” without fear of repression … The zone of legitimate State intervention commences at the point where the expression of an opinion interferes with the rights of others or constitutes an obvious, direct threat to life in society.

    “He continues:
    According to the socialist view, human rights are, in general, the embodiment of the very essence of the Socialist State and are marked by an “objective conformity of interests between the citizen and the socialist society freed of class antagonism”.

    Nowak’s analysis of the socialist view is infused with the rhetoric of the day. But the broad objective of the socialist view is to interpret human rights as an instrument to ensure democratic participation, not protect the universal rights of the individual. It’s a tradition that has now been adopted by progressives.

    “These are clearly inconsistent approaches. Yet this tension is infused through international treaties which elevate worthy aspirations to the status of sacrosanct human rights principles. As ‘new’ socialist human rights were added to the liberal list they conflicted and therefore had to be ‘balanced’, and effectively …. “

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  25. KiwiGreg (3,259 comments) says:

    Ah yes the “free” green card for students. Just the transport cost of the “free” gold card cost $26m last year.

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  26. Keeping Stock (10,406 comments) says:

    Oh dear; so Mr Cunliffe hasn’t completely excluded the notion of working with Internet Mana after all, despite what he said yesterday. Is there any policy on which he can keep a consistent line for more than 24 hours?

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/08/here-comes-cunliffe-back-down.html

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  27. wreck1080 (3,956 comments) says:

    Regarding the health sector strike…

    “The union said their demand for a 2 per cent pay increase was modest and even a 2 per cent pay rise was not even in line with the Consumer Price Index.”

    This is key. Every year that you don’t get a pay rise which matches the CPI then you are getting a pay decrease.

    So, they are effective going on strike for a lessor pay decrease!!! My only surprise is why they are not arguing for a greater increase.

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  28. kowtow (8,733 comments) says:

    other andy

    That’s “progressives” for ya.

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  29. calendar girl (1,261 comments) says:

    So, KiwiGreg, are they equivalent as you imply?. Will the proposed “green card for students” be restricted to non-peak hours?

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  30. Pete George (23,680 comments) says:

    Good riddance then as he clearly had no idea of ACT policy that has been around for years.

    Policy is one thing, how it’s promoted in an election is another.

    McCallum represented a new generation of potentioal Act support who see things differently to the old school approach to race relations.

    If Act want to stick with the old and not care about genuine renewal it’s up to them.

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  31. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    I see Steve Joyce is busy attacking those who disagree with selling farmland to Communist Government proxies as being “xenophobic” http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/joyce-attacks-labour-xenophobia-th-160245

    Listen here Joyce you utter prat, just because you don’t want or don’t like something doesn’t mean you are “scared” of it. I don’t like peas, doesn’t mean I’m scared of them. This whole “phobia” this and “phobia” that is a beautiful illustration of Orwellian language politicians and their media lackeys use to try to control the populace.

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  32. Colville (2,298 comments) says:

    I would love to see ACT push for a referendum on the Maori seats.
    It would easy get a large majority to chop them, which the Nats would ignore at their peril.

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  33. Viking2 (11,553 comments) says:

    EAD (663 comments) says:
    August 6th, 2014 at 8:41 am

    Thanks EAD.
    Problem is where do you draw the line?
    The Pommes owned much land till they went broke and sold out. The Dutch and others have all had a go. The Americans own vast tracks of our land, far more than the Chinese and the amounts so far are tiny.
    Stevenson put that block on the market quite a while ago.
    Like Crafar ‘s lot it requires lots of capital to ramp up it production and the rules around the sales will ensure that they are not going to dig it up and transport it to China.
    They have employed top Kiwi’s to run the venture and I consider that if things go off track those Kiwi’s will soon let everyone know one way or another.
    Kiwi’s had a great opportunist to buy but no one put their hand up. Should Stevensons have continued to slog it out or should they be free to take the money and go on with their other projects?

    Relate this to what Hart has done with Carters Forests. Sold everything he could. No fuss about who bought and now he has sold the mills. Actually good for the mills as the Japanese buyer has been running the mill in Napier for many many years and investing in their manufacturing, which Hart has not done.

    Quite a difference really.

    The main issues for me are that we manage the company, land and tax rules so that NZ Inc isn’t robbed and the companies contribute just like yours and mine, albeit I think we are taxed more than we should be.

    I would rather see the money spent there than in Auckland buying overpriced houses.
    If you watch the Sydney auctions list on a Sunday you can see Chinese buying at huge prices. We don’t need that.

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  34. KiwiGreg (3,259 comments) says:

    “If Act want to stick with the old ”

    Yes those outdated ideas that humans should be treated the same.

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  35. NK (1,253 comments) says:

    I see Cunliffe is lying again saying Kim Dotcom has donated to Act.

    The donation returns are published – where does it say on these returns that KDC or any of his companies was a donor? It doesn’t. And if he gave anonymously, how would Cunliffe know – it’s anonymous!!

    As for the Dunedin North candidate for Act resigning, it’s sad. I don’t agree with every policy of Act either, it’s impossible to do so. But I don’t spit the dummy and throw my toys when it happens. Being part of a team means you support the team decisions. I guess if you don’t, you pull out of the team, and that’s what he’s done. Fair enough. But politics isn’t easy or fair and purists need to realise that.

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  36. Viking2 (11,553 comments) says:

    Pete George (22,913 comments) says:
    August 6th, 2014 at 8:56 am

    Good riddance then as he clearly had no idea of ACT policy that has been around for years.

    Policy is one thing, how it’s promoted in an election is another.

    McCallum represented a new generation of potentioal Act support who see things differently to the old school approach to race relations.

    If Act want to stick with the old and not care about genuine renewal it’s up to them.
    ==============================

    I luv you racist pricks. Can’t tell when you are supporting racism or can but are so frightened that some one will say boo in your ear that you appease the racists.

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  37. Pete George (23,680 comments) says:

    NK – don’t rule out the possibility it’s a part of a calculated attention seeking strategy.

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  38. kowtow (8,733 comments) says:

    Interesting item about a beheading in Saudi Arabia.
    Guy gets the chop for torturing his child to death. How come they hve child abuse in Saudi when they were never colonised by the evil white man?
    I see you can get the chop there for “apostasy”,I wonder how many actually have?

    http://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking_news_detail.asp?id=52450&icid=4&d_str=20140806

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  39. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    He radioed down to Mission Control, who gave him the A-OK, and Frank swallowed the pill with a squirt of liquid from a water gun. He tried to get to sleep in the lower level of the spacecraft, but soon he started to vomit, and green particles floated into other parts of the spaceship. A big gelatinous sphere sailed by his crewmate Bill Anders, the rookie. It splashed onto Jim, “like a fried egg.” Unfortunately it wasn’t only vomit floating by, but diarrhea as well.

    – ‘The Astronauts Wives Club A True Story’ Lily Koppel

    Just another day at the office for the Apollo 8 astronauts back in 1968. Zero G puke and liquid shit – far out – hahahahahaha – not the kind of splashdown they were looking for – ah come on – we’d be here all day making the funny with such high quality material. :)

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  40. Brian Smaller (4,024 comments) says:

    Students don’t need free transport. They are young and fit. They should bike or walk. Lazy little bastards.

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  41. G152 (385 comments) says:

    Any poll taken by TV3 is slanted before it starts because only lefty fuckwits watch TV3 shite.
    ———————————–
    And since Campbell Lame counted them with their agenda why didn’t they go 100% to 0% ?

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  42. Tauhei Notts (1,746 comments) says:

    NK at 9.02 points out the lack of honesty in Silent T’s comments. And how that dishonesty attracts no MSM comment.
    Then when Jamie Whyte overlooks, amongst the extremely lengthy list of race based taxpayer payouts, the tohunga movement, also known as Whanau Ora, he gets pilloried.

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  43. OneTrack (3,218 comments) says:

    Nk – Do we assume that Cunliffe id talking about the donation to Banks mayoral campaign and conflatjng that to a donation to act?

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  44. dime (10,095 comments) says:

    It’s scary that some people are allowed to vote.

    Last night I heard this shit head on zb. He thinks “free” public transport for students is a great idea… He can’t wait to see what other “goodies” will be offered by parties in the next few weeks.

    Holy hell. You sad, addicted to government, dependant fuck.

    How bout this for a “goody”. Let people keep more of their own money!

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  45. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    Thanks for your considered response Viking2. I think the ultimate difference is the nature of the ownership.

    The British and Dutch you speak of came here and bought farms (generally) as individuals and were/became citizens of the country.

    I am extremely uncomfortable for a start about the corporatisation of farming as the focus shifts between managing land/soils for the long term vs. chasing short term yields and profit results which can be detrimental to the long term health of the farm.

    What is especially disconcerting in the above example if that the owner of these farm, by proxy, is the Communist Chinese Government. So the means of survival (primary wealth) has now become a political weapon. In times of political calmness, no big deal, but in times of international tensions, this is an extremely powerful leverage to have over other countries. In times of worldwide drought/food shortages we could end up in a situation of all the food being produced in this country going overseas and there is not a thing we could do about it.

    I think they call the problem “food security”:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9224240/Why-food-security-is-not-just-a-problem-for-the-Third-World.html

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  46. Gulag1917 (982 comments) says:

    Ya gotta wonder
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2715466/Israeli-official-calls-concentration-camps-Gaza-conquest-entire-Gaza-Strip-annihilation-fighting-forces-supporters.html

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  47. mikenmild (11,662 comments) says:

    I think the scenario of the evil Chinese owning all the farms and sending the produce overseas while we starve is a bit over cooked, to say the least.

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  48. NK (1,253 comments) says:

    Possibly OneTrack, but Banks wasn’t a member of Act when he stood for the mayorlty. He hadn’t been a member at all prior to the Don Brash “takeover”.,

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  49. Pete George (23,680 comments) says:

    Students don’t need free transport. They are young and fit.

    And last week Greens wanted them to cycle.

    But there’s potentially more votes in giving away free stuff (not actually free, others have to pay for it).

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  50. Yvette (2,845 comments) says:

    Pete George – Internet-Mama may cease to exist after the election.

    Fascinating. I assume their seats [except for Hone’s presumed Electorate seat] will be then locked in as those set out in the joint List.
    But then if someone goes under a bus, will two separate parties refer back to their then obsolete United List or establish new Lists which no one has voted for?

    I understand the Electoral Commission has no position on this and will just hand it all back to the Clerk of the House saying Hey, look at what happened here already :-)

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  51. Yvette (2,845 comments) says:

    Last week Cunliffe wouldn’t rule Internet MANA in or out
    Yesterday Cunliffe ruled MANA out of any government he leads
    This morning Cunliffe says Internet Mana could still support Labour outside Government – won’t rule out working with them altogether.

    Election Day is the 20th – an even numbered day – so it looks like MANA will be in after all :-)

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  52. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    dime – 90%+ talkback callers = insufferable retarded ignorant losers. You know that. They speak like a vinyl record played at around 60-70% normal speed.

    Most of them don’t have the internet and wash their clothes in the nearest stream whilst wearing them.

    I reckon most talkback callers ring in because no other bastard on earth would last ten seconds listening to their shit.

    As for voting – blanket man could’ve voted. Enough said.

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  53. hj (7,062 comments) says:

    Racism! Racism!

    John Carran, 2 April 1996
    “Vehement opposition to immigration, particularly from Asian countries, in New Zealand from an ill-informed and xenophobic rabble persists despite overwhelming evidence that immigration will improve our long term economic prospects.
    In 1988 The Institute of Policy Studies published detailed research by Jacques Poot, Ganesh Nana and Bryan Philpott on the effects of migration on the New Zealand economy. The research, which abstracted from the social and environmental impact of immigration, concluded that “…a significant migration inflow can be beneficial to the performance of the New Zealand economy and subsequent consumption and income levels.” The authors point out that this is in general agreement with Australian research on the economic consequences of immigration.


    Of course there is more to life than attaining economic excellence. The social and environmental impact of immigration also needs to be considered. But here the reasons given for restricting immigration range from pathetic to extremely dodgy. Most of the accusations are barely disguised racist piffle backed by tenuous rumours and cloudy anecdotes. Winston Peters’ stirring of the masses has exposed the ignorance and racial biases of a small and distasteful section of New Zealand society. These people yearn for a cloistered, inhibited, white (with a bit of brown at the edges) dominated utopia fondly envisaged by racists and xenophobes everywhere.

    http://www.gmi.co.nz/news/1021/opposition-to-immigration-why-let-the-arguments-get-in-the-way.aspx

    Savings Working Group
    January 2011
    “The big adverse gap in productivity between New Zealand and other countries opened up from the 1970s to the early 1990s. The policy choice that increased immigration – given the number of employers increasingly unable to pay First-World wages to the existing population and all the capital requirements that increasing populations involve – looks likely to have worked almost directly against the adjustment New Zealand needed to make and it might have been better off with a lower rate of net immigration. This adjustment would have involved a lower real interest rate (and cost of capital) and a lower real exchange rate, meaning a more favourable environment for raising the low level of productive capital per worker and labour productivity. The low level of capital per worker is a striking symptom of New Zealand’s economic challenge.

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/reviews-consultation/savingsworkinggroup/pdfs/swg-report-jan11.pdf

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  54. Gulag1917 (982 comments) says:

    The great thing about immigration is eventually real wages will drop in NZ because the tribes workers will work for peanuts. The roads will also be safer with their superior driving skills.

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  55. oldpark (373 comments) says:

    @Flash 2846 8.08AM.So called Green Card bribes from commie “greens.”Money would come from roads fund.Seems we could all say bye bye to Aucklands Holiday Highway or Transmission Gully would be cancelled for starters.Perhaps that lot of economy wreckers given joint power with Gomeral Cunliffes party all new roading projects would not happen in favour of public transport.

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  56. hj (7,062 comments) says:

    JS Mill

    I am not charmed with the ideal of life held out by those who think that the normal state of human beings is that of struggling to get on; that the trampling, crushing, elbowing, and treading on each other’s heels, which form the existing type of social life, are the most desirable lot of human kind, or anything but the disagreeable symptoms of one of the phases of industrial progress…the best state for human nature is that which, while no one is poor, no one desires to be richer, nor has any reason to fear being thrust back, by the efforts of others to push themselves forward. (ibid. 113,114)

    there would be… as much room for improving the Art of Living, and much more likelihood of its being improved, when minds ceased to be engrossed by the art of getting on. Even the industrial arts might be as earnestly and as successfully cultivated, with this sole difference, that instead of serving no purpose but the increase of wealth, industrial improvements would produce their legitimate effect, that of abridging labour. (ibid. 116) 

    …much satisfaction in contemplating the world with nothing left to the spontaneous activity of nature; with every rood of land brought into cultivation, which is capable of growing food for human beings; every flowery waste or natural pasture ploughed up, all quadrupeds or birds which are not domesticated for man’s use exterminated as rivals for his food, every hedgerow or superfluous tree rooted out, and scarcely a place left where a wild shrub or flower could grow without being eradicated as a weed in the name of improved agriculture …’ (op. cit. 116)

    http://www.eoearth.org/view/article/153483/

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  57. Yvette (2,845 comments) says:

    Time to get rid of separatist Maori seats when candidates for those seats are not Maori, not representatives of Maori parties, and not registered on the Maori Roll, but are instead the German interests of a criminal unqualified to stand for Parliament.

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  58. KiwiGreg (3,259 comments) says:

    “In times of worldwide drought/food shortages we could end up in a situation of all the food being produced in this country going overseas and there is not a thing we could do about it.”

    Because farm owners can just do what they want and not comply with the law.

    Those Chinese would just pipe the milk straight from the cow onto a tanker ship and send it off to Chinaland.

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  59. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    And then you think the New Zealand Media is bad….
    Well it is, but……
    I think Britain (BBC) and especially Australia (ABC) are worse.

    http://player.ooyala.com/iframe.html#pbid=5bbbb2f96a0499fafcafb28bf66a34a&ec=xqaDdmbzoPesa2Iur15ZyJrgePqYQrMd&docUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.news.com.au%2Fheraldsun%2Fandrewbolt%2Findex.php%2Fheraldsun%2Fcomments%2Fmike_carlton_has_a_lot_of_jews_to_ring_to_say_sorry%2F

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  60. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ya gotta wonder

    Deputy Speaker of the Israeli Knesset and member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s ruling Likud Party, Moshe Feiglin, has called for the use of concentration camps for the “conquest of the entire Gaza Strip, and annihilation of all fighting forces and their supporters.”

    http://www.worldbulletin.net/world/141870/israeli-official-calls-for-concentration-camps-in-gaza

    He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
    John 12:40

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  61. Redbaiter (9,503 comments) says:

    Abbot govt caves in on repeal of anti-free speech Section 18C law.

    Another pack of cowards.

    All across the west Conservatives are being betrayed by left wing governments posing as right wing.

    Don’t vote for these traitors. National in NZ. Liberals in Australia. Republicans in US. Conservatives in UK.

    If you want the socialist train stopped and not just slowed down in NZ then you must use your vote against the mainstream progressive orthodoxy of the Labour/ National political bloc.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/craven-cave-in-on-free-speech/story-e6frg6zo-1227014592940

    “yesterday’s decision to leave in place our hate speech laws was a terrible and cowardly one made worse by the cynical political calculations that lay behind it.”

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  62. Colville (2,298 comments) says:

    The coming third term for Nats woud be the puuurrfect time to have a referendum on the racist seats coming as is does on the back of MANAless rorting and selling out to the German SlobCon.

    The trick will be to get a fair question asked, not a grey middle of the road touchey feely question that a few people will be indecisive about.

    *I cant very well call it a black or white type of question now can i ? :-) *

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  63. wreck1080 (3,956 comments) says:

    I wonder if those who think dairy is the bees knees are now thinking twice?

    After all, how could prices be falling when there are so many chinese?

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  64. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    EAD etc,

    Myth #1: The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 was crafted by Wall Street bankers and a few senators in a secret meeting.
     
    Thus saith G. Edward Griffen. The gist of his conspiracy theory was a Banking and financial elite from Wall St wanted to control the US and thence the international banking and financial system. They met secretly on Jekyll Island to plot and scheme this diabolical plan hatching the Federal Reserve system.

    A considerably more historically accurate account of the creation of the Federal Reserve is outlined below, rather than Griffen’s fanciful conspiratorial account which is full l of inaccuracies an inconstancies .Historically it goes back beyond the Civil war where the banking system in the US was fragmented and chaotic with frequent bank collapses that saw many depositors and investors loosing their money and life savings .
    The creation of the Federal Reserve system was merely to restore order and confidence , out of the chaos ,in the Banking and financial system with a more stable currency and hence financial stability

    http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/flaherty1.html

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  65. Colville (2,298 comments) says:

    New Zealand’s unemployment rate fell to 5.6 per cent for the three months ended June 30, from a revised 5.9 per cent.

    Unemployment was the lowest it has been since the March 2009 quarter, Statistics New Zealand said.

    Another Cun*liffe crisis?

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  66. Fletch (6,486 comments) says:

    An Indian journalist films Hamas from his hotel room in Gaza, setting up a rocket and firing it (all from a residential area surrounded by hotels and apartment buildings).

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  67. Sofia (862 comments) says:

    Those questions must be submitted, in writing, before the event starts.
    ”There is to be no debate at all. Candidates have been warned they will be thrown out if they mention other candidates or attack any other parties, or anything else like that, at all,” Ryan said.
    Silence would be demanded from everyone but the speaker, with one warning before those disrupting the meeting would be removed.
    ”It’s on that basis that the prime minister agreed to be there.”

    A spokeswoman for Key said he would take part in only one multi-candidate event in his electorate, which was ”the same as the last election campaign”.
    His office had played no role in the shaping of the rules for the event, she said.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10352978/Strict-rules-for-Key-electorate-event

    1] spot a slight inconsistency in statements
    2] Helensville, but no mention of Penny Dim

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  68. Pete George (23,680 comments) says:

    Nookin at 8.27 am:

    I also note his repeated mandate to avoid “gotcha” politics. Somehow I have difficulty reconciling that position with his somewhat pointed jibe this morning that Dotcom made a donation to an ACT candidate. Not only is he a hypocrite, he cannot even sledge honestly.

    Act have responded to this – Dotcom donation claims totally untrue, says ACT:

    Party President John Thompson claims Labour’s been making allegations their party and their candidates have been receiving donations.

    He says it’s totally untrue and no money from Kim Dotcom have ever been donated to their campaign.

    Former ACT Leader John Banks did receive money from Kim Dotcom, however it was for his 2010 Mayoral campaign and before he joined the ACT Party.

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/1222147177-dotcom-donation-claims-totally-untrue–says-act

    Cunliffe made the claim in the same Firstline interview where he reiterated Labour’s ‘positive’ approach to the campaign.

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  69. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Fletch says at 11:21 am

    “An Indian journalist films Hamas from his hotel room in Gaza, setting up a rocket and firing it (all from a residential area surrounded by hotels and apartment buildings).”

    Of course they have notified the resident to they can leave in case Israeli artillery fire on that position.
    They wouldn’t purposely endanger the women and children in those apartments, would they?

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  70. Fletch (6,486 comments) says:

    Other_Andy, lol, yeh, of course.

    I see that Israel also says they have a captured Hamas training manual that explains the benefits of using human shields.

    http://www.idfblog.com/blog/2014/08/04/captured-hamas-combat-manual-explains-benefits-human-shields/

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  71. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    Fletch and coy. Hellooo…!

    Fox News Quiet After Congressional Report Finds No Benghazi Scandal

    New House Intel Report Reportedly Finds No Intentional Wrongdoing By The Obama Administration

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/08/05/fox-news-quiet-after-congressional-report-finds/200318

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  72. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Viking2 says:

    “Good riddance then as he clearly had no idea of ACT policy that has been around for years.”

    Yep, bizarre.
    Dunedin North candidate, Guy McCallum must have looked at least once at the policy statements…

    Act Policy

    Treaty of Waitangi and Race Relations

    ACT believes that equality before the law is a cornerstone of a free society. Even with the noblest of intentions, legally privileging some New Zealanders over others with parliamentary seats and other government appointed positions is an erosion of that freedom. Furthermore, such policies undermine the dignity and independence of the very people whom they are supposed to help.
    ACT supports the vision of a free society and would seek to remove all race-based appointments. ACT would also seek to ensure that the Waitangi Tribunal process ends on the basis of full, fair, and final settlements.

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  73. Lance (2,704 comments) says:

    @Fletch
    That reporter will need to get out of there now unless he wants his head sawed off with a rusty knife.
    None of this reporting ALL the facts, just the pro-Hamas ‘facts’ about how evil the Joo’s are.

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  74. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    They wouldn’t purposely endanger the women and children in those apartments, would they?

    Of course they would, think about where they came from:

    “Israeli military governor of the Gaza Strip, Brigadier General Yitzhak Segev, once told me how he had financed the Islamic movement as a counterweight to the PLO and the Communists. ‘The Israeli Government gave me a budget and the military government gives to the mosques,’ he said.” ~ New York Times Reporter David Shipler

    “And beginning in 1967 through the late 1980s, Israel helped the Muslim Brotherhood establish itself in the occupied territories. It assisted Ahmed Yassin, the leader of the Brotherhood, in creating Hamas, betting that its Islamist character would weaken the PLO.” ~ Robert Dreyfus

    http://henrymakow.com/israelcreatedhamastoavoid.html

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  75. Nukuleka (346 comments) says:

    I would have said that Jamie Whyte’s comments were more an issue of equality for all before the law rather than specifically ‘race relations’. It just so happens that one race in New Zealand is more equal than the others.

    Surely an appeal could be made to that august, balanced and impartial body the United Nations to ask them to investigate the current state of apartheid that exists and is embedded in New Zealand law. Don’t they have Human Rights committees that look into situations where one race is given legislated advantage over another?

    Ho ho ho!

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  76. Yoza (1,906 comments) says:

    Fletch (6,036 comments) says:
    August 6th, 2014 at 11:44 am

    Other_Andy, lol, yeh, of course.

    I see that Israel also says they have a captured Hamas training manual that explains the benefits of using human shields.

    From the manual:

    The soldiers and commanders (of the IDF) must limit their use of weapons and tactics that lead to the harm and unnecessary loss of people and [destruction of] civilian facilities. It is difficult for them to get the most use out of their firearms, especially of supporting fire [e.g. artillery].

    Wow, you actually buy this shit. What you are saying is Hamas has either grossly overestimated the humanity of the IDF, a highly dubious proposition given Israel’s propensity for attacking hospitals, UN refuges, ambulances and unarmed civilians. More likely the IDF produced this to farm out to its redneck Western support network.

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  77. Griff (8,159 comments) says:

    humanity of the hamas a highly dubious proposition given hamas propensity for attacking from hospitals, UN refuges, ambulances and using un armed civilians as human shields

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  78. publicwatchdog (2,797 comments) says:

    Independent candidate for Helensville Penny Bright (unlawfully) declined ‘speaking rights’ at the upcoming Helensville candidates meeting Monday 11 August 2014

    On Friday 1 August 2014, after hearing that there was an upcoming Helensville candidates meeting, I contacted the organiser Holly Ryan (021 488 427)

    “Hello” I said, “It’s Penny Bright”.

    “Yes” replied Holly Ryan “I know who you are.”

    I told her I was looking forward to the upcoming Helensville candidates meeting and asked her to confirm an invitation.

    Holly Ryan said, no, that the meeting had been organised months ago, and that I hadn’t been invited because I was not a member of any political party.

    I asked her if the meeting was open to the public, and she said yes, but if I interjected I would be thrown out.

    I must say that I was rather stunned at her response, and the profoundly (unlawful) unfairness of being completely disregarded because I am fiercely independent, and not a member of any political party.
    ______________________________________________________

    THE LAW:

    Under the New Zealand Bill of Rights, I have the following lawful rights:

    14 Freedom of expression
    Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form.

    ________________________________________________________

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/DLM225513.html

    17Freedom of association
    Everyone has the right to freedom of association.

    __________________________________________________________

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/DLM225516.html

    Non-discrimination and minority rights

    19 Freedom from discrimination

    (1)Everyone has the right to freedom from discrimination on the grounds of discrimination in the Human Rights Act 1993.

    (2)Measures taken in good faith for the purpose of assisting or advancing persons or groups of persons disadvantaged because of discrimination that is unlawful by virtue of Part 2 of the Human Rights Act 1993 do not constitute discrimination.

    Section 19: substituted, on 1 February 1994, by section 145 of the Human Rights Act 1993 (1993 No 82).
    _________________________________________________________

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/DLM225519.html

    Prohibited grounds of discrimination

    Heading: inserted, on 1 January 2002, by section 7 of the Human Rights Amendment Act 2001 (2001 No 96).

    21Prohibited grounds of discrimination
    (1)For the purposes of this Act, the prohibited grounds of discrimination are—

    (j)political opinion, which includes the lack of a particular political opinion or any political opinion:

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0082/latest/DLM304475.html
    ________________________________________________________

    Subsequently, I rang the Human Rights Commission (Auckland) and explained the situation to a complaints officer, who asked me what I wanted to do.

    I said that I wanted an invitation to the upcoming candidates’ meeting, and would try to sort it out myself (nicely).

    As the advertisement for this meeting had been listed on the Waitakere Community Trust website, I tried to find out what the relationship was between meeting organiser Holly Ryan, and the Trust.

    It appears that there is no formal link, and the Trust allows postings of upcoming events that may be of interest to the community.

    I passed on my concerns to the Waitakere Community Trust, and explained that I was seeking a process by which this could be sorted out ‘in house’ without a big fuss.

    My wish was that this could happen before 3pm today, because I am heading off to Helensville to attend my second meeting which has been organised by locals, for locals to hear what I have to say, particularly about corruption.

    Today, there has been quite significant media coverage of this Helensville, in mainstream media, about how tightly this meeting will be controlled.

    However- what is NOT widely known is that as an Independent, politically non-aligned candidate, who is just focused on the ELECTORATE vote, has been (unlawfully) denied the same right to address the voting public as have been politically aligned candidates.

    Today, at 9.30am I rang Holly Ryan, and left a message on her mobile, that I looked forward to her confirming by email, that I would get an invitation.

    Holly Ryan rang me at 11 am, saying that she is the one who has organised the meeting, that the (Kumeu Baptist) Church is ‘private property’ and she can invite who she likes, and the decision is hers, and she is not changing her position:

    ie: I am still NOT invited.

    In my considered opinion – this is quite simply outrageous.

    http://www.kumeubaptist.org.nz/about-us/

    “About Us

    Kumeu Baptist Church is a Christian congregation serving the Kumeu community in Auckland, and seeking, engaging, and encouraging others through a life-changing Christian journey.

    Kumeu Baptist Church seeks to be a loving, friendly community that worships God, and serves others.

    We place a high priority on teaching from the Bible and following the example of Jesus.

    Our vision is to impact and renew Kumeu, Auckland and beyond with the transforming message of Jesus Christ through words and actions.

    Everyone is welcome.

    Come as you are – we’d love to get to know you. Our services are at 10am on Sunday mornings.”

    http://www.kumeubaptist.org.nz/about-us/staff-and-elders/

    11.30am Rang the Senior Pastor Samuel Schuurman (09) 412 9154
    021 795 700 who ‘was sorry I felt that way’ – but he was not going to interfere with Holly Ryan’s decision to exclude me, and didn’t think that it was discriminatory.

    I said that I was trying to deal with this ‘nicely’ – ‘in-house’, because I didn’t think it would be a good look for the Kumeu Baptist Church, who purport to be inclusive, but I would defend my right to be treated in lawful and proper way.

    11.45am I rang the NZ Electoral Commission, 0800 36 76 56 and explained the situation, which I believed was both unfair and unlawful to be discriminated against because I was not a candidate representing a political party – but an Independent.

    The Electoral Commission Head Office is being emailed, and I have asked this matter to be treated as URGENT.

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0087/latest/DLM2997502.html
    ___________________________________________________

    http://www.communitywaitakere.org.nz/noticeboard/
    4CObjective

    The objective of the Electoral Commission is to administer the electoral system impartially, efficiently, effectively, and in a way that—

    (a)facilitates participation in parliamentary democracy; and
    (b)promotes understanding of the electoral system and associated matters; and
    (c)maintains confidence in the administration of the electoral system.
    _____________________________________________________

    It is my intention to make a formal complaint with the Human Rights Commission.

    I expect my lawful rights as an Independent candidate to be respected, along with those of the voting public to be able to ‘cast an informed vote’.

    BACKGROUND:

    This was the original notice advertising this Helensville candidates meeting:

    eventsworkshopsforums/10351-helensville-electorate–te-tai-tokerau-cross-party-candidates-meeting

    HELENSVILLE ELECTORATE / TE TAI TOKERAU CROSS PARTY CANDIDATES MEETING
    MONDAY 11TH AUGUST at KUMEU BAPTIST CHURCH, Access Rd, Kumeu

    8 political parties – National, Labour, Greens, Maori, Act, NZ First, Conservative, Internet Mana are invited to be represented by their candidates and up to 2 other party policy speakers.

    Parties will have opportunity to set up stands in the church hall, with public welcome to attend from 6pm to chat casually.

    The main meeting will commence in the church at 7pm. Seating for 230, with sound system. Each candidate will have 5 minutes to present themselves, followed by written questions from the public, drawn for order. At 9pm the meeting will end, with opportunity for everyone to return to the hall for informal discussion and refreshments.

    The meeting will be tightly managed, with any interjectors removed after one warning. Questions may be answered by the party policy supporters, seated behind the candidates.

    RSVP to Holly Ryan, Convenor
    021 488 427

    __________________________________________________________

    Hoping that the basic principles of natural justice, rule of law and commonsense will prevail.

    Penny Bright

    2014 Independent candidate for Helensville

    2009 Attendee Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
    2010 Attendee Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference
    2013 Attendee Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference
    2009 Attendee G20 Anti-Corruption Conference

    2013 Auckland Mayoral Candidate (polled 4th with 11,723 votes)

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  79. Fletch (6,486 comments) says:

    Fletch and coy. Hellooo…!

    Stephie, Troy Gowdy will lead a committee into the affair in September. Being the bulldog that he is, I’m sure he will get to the actual truth. He is saying that no witnesses, not even Hillary Clinton, will be off limits.

    In an interview with Fox News’ Catherine Herridge Tuesday morning, Republican Rep. Trey Gowdy announced the first Benghazi select committee hearing will be held in early September. The announcement comes after months of quiet investigation from the Committee, which was announced by House Speaker John Boehner in May. The select committee includes seven Republicans and four Democrats.

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/07/29/trey-gowdy-announces-first-benghazi-hearing-n1871591

    http://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/politics/2014/08/02/gowdy-witnesses-testify-benghazi/13526949/

    Hopefully, we will get the actual, you know, Truth.

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  80. Colville (2,298 comments) says:

    Good to see Penny Dim being treated with the level of seriousness she deserves

    Bwaaahahahahaah ;-)

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  81. publicwatchdog (2,797 comments) says:

    Polled 4th in the 2013 Auckland Mayoralty with 11,723 votes.

    Together with Graham McCready helped get John Banks held accountable for electoral fraud ‘Colville’.

    So – you don’t believe in ‘freedom of expression’?

    Not an ACT Party member or Libertarian then?

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

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  82. ciaron (1,441 comments) says:

    Soooo, a private citizen is organising a meeting, inviting speakers and hiring a venue, and that somehow gives you speaking rights?

    I think you need some cheese to go with that whine Penny.

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  83. mandk (1,015 comments) says:

    @Yoza,

    Q. Why aren’t Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia vociferously supporting Hamas and condemning Israel?

    A. Because they all know that Hamas are the scum of the earth.

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  84. oldpark (373 comments) says:

    Penny is the number one in Auckland.Number one rates dodger,she is sucking off the people whom she wants votes from .Pay up Penny or have you” no cents”.

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  85. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    ““In fact, I didn’t know the Hamilton speech was coming,” claims McCallum. “Jamie was in Dunedin for a small gathering of ACT supporters on the morning of 20 July, and he mentioned to me that he was in search of a ‘stunt … because you know, the polls.’ A week later ACT rolled out a controversial and obviously unprepared race relations policy.”

    Looking for a stunt because of the polls. Well, I’m shocked! :)

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  86. RRM (10,001 comments) says:

    Penny;

    There is a political event taking place and you are butt-hurt because it is not all about you – there’s a surprise :-)

    For goodness’ sake.
    The people who go to that meet-the-CANDIDATES event will want to hear from the CANDIDATES.
    They will NOT be interested in hearing Penny Bright interjecting every 30 seconds to talk about Penny Bright.

    You are NOT anyone’s elected anything. You are NOT even the elephant in the room, you are just the harp at the party.

    No-one cares about anything you have to say, apart from a few other smelly unwashed lefty protestors.

    :neutral: Please, do everyone a favour and just fuck off.

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  87. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Terrorists fire rockets from civilian facilities in Gaza

    Between July 8 and August 5

    ◾Terrorists in Gaza fired 3,360 rockets at Israel.
    ◾Terrorists fired 597 rockets from civilian facilities in Gaza.
    ◾Approximately 260 rockets were fired from schools.
    ◾Approximately 160 rockets were fired from religious sites, including mosques.
    ◾Approximately 127 rockets were fired from cemeteries.
    ◾Approximately 50 rockets were fired from hospitals.

    ◾2,303 rockets hit Israel.
    ◾115 rockets hit populated areas in Israel.
    ◾475 rockets landed within the Gaza Strip.
    ◾584 rockets were intercepted by Iron Dome.
    ◾119 rocket launches failed.

    A Hamas rocket launcher 100 metres from a UN building

    UNWRA personnel is able to see it from the windows.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/a_hamas_rocket_launcher_100_metres_from_a_un_building/

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  88. Fletch (6,486 comments) says:

    The glorious leader Obama’s birthday must be celebrated. If you haven’t signed his birthday card, then why not?

    […] yesterday I got the single creepiest fund-raising email I’ve ever seen. […] From “Grant Campbell” of BarackObama.com.

    “I don’t want to make this awkward, but . . . It looks like you haven’t signed OFA’s birthday card for President Obama yet.
    Today’s the big day – I think the card would be so much better with your name on it”

    http://jonathanlast.com/the-cult-obama-cont/

    http://thefederalist.com/2014/08/05/kneel-before-zod-on-celebrating-obamas-birthday/

    As the blogger points out – what is this, China?
    It looks like they have a selection of 3 different cards that you could sign. Blows your mind, really. WTF does he think he is?

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  89. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    Ugly quoting the New Testament when he does not believe in it in the first place is amusing. To me anyway, I doubt God is amused by his tactics.

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  90. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    Fletch at 1.14 pm , its getting utterly ridiculous the antics of Gowdy and his Republican led yet another, select committee on the alleged Benghazi Conspiracy / cover up.

    This will be in addition the recent Republican, led House Intelligence Committee report , the State Departments Accountability Review Board and the bi Partisan Senate select committee which have all debunked Right wing Benghazi myths that include the falsehood about the alleged stand down order for troops stationed in Tripoli and that the Obama administration lied about the attacks having been attributed to an anti Islam video.

    Gowdy’s Benghazi select committee formed to investigate alleged unanswered questions long since asked and answered by the aforementioned.

    Now how can anyone now take Gowdy’s fresh witch hunt seriously except for the most fanatical and obsessional .?

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/08/04/how-the-newest-house-benghazi-report-should-cha/200316

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  91. ciaron (1,441 comments) says:

    Penny and Grace are downtick’n hard, boys :)

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  92. Fletch (6,486 comments) says:

    Q. Why aren’t Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia vociferously supporting Hamas and condemning Israel?

    A. Because they all know that Hamas are the scum of the earth.

    mandk, it is also interesting that the U.S’s John Kerry has been having ceasefire discussions with Qatar and Turkey (who support Hamas) rather than the other Arab countries, such as Egypt (who don’t).

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  93. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    One of the Democratic parties heroes demands the US recognize HAMAS.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/08/05/jimmy-carter-pushes-us-to-recognize-hamas-slams-israel-in-op-ed/

    I can’t wait for this vile party to be dumped at the next mid term and Presidential elections.

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  94. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    An enemy of my enemy is my friend, I’m voting Mana/Internet.

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  95. Griff (8,159 comments) says:

    But Penny Tarnish
    The “who gives a fuck party” with their well known candidates Informal and Blank polled a total of 8731 votes in the race for Auckland mayor making them the next highest polling candidates just behind you .Do you think they should get equal time as you to debate their obviously well received message?

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  96. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    Fletch , what does Sarah Palin think with this adulation and idolization from canadian born Ted Cruz ?,

    http://www.redstate.com/2014/02/11/hilarious-ted-cruz-wishes-sarah-palin-a-happy-birthday-rated-by-politifact/

    No doubt you would have been delirious , hysterical and in tears shrieking with joy.!

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  97. ciaron (1,441 comments) says:

    Geez Griff, I almost had a coffee+keyboard moment there! :)

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  98. Fletch (6,486 comments) says:

    Fletch , what does Sarah Palin think with this adulation and idolization from canadian born Ted Cruz ?,

    Um, stephie, it is her big 5-0. And Ted Cruz is allowed to congratulate her for reaching that milestone, is he not? Obama has passed that. His followers just demand he be congratulated every year (like it’s some huge event), something akin to what happens with Kim Jong Un.

    There’s a difference.

    To be honest, I didn’t know when Sarah Palin’s birthday is/was, and still don’t. Obama likes to make damn sure everyone knows when his is.

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  99. Fletch (6,486 comments) says:

    The latest from Mad Magazine. Obama wishing himself a happy birthday, by Executive Order :lol:

    http://www.madmagazine.com/blog/2014/08/04/obamas-latest-executive-order

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  100. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    Is there a rational reason, beyond Stephie’s hysteria driven hatred for the Right, that it’s bad for Cruz to wish her a happy birthday?

    Oh wait, she’s not the ObamaMessiah, thus she is a non-person, and in Stehpie’s fevered imagination probably a secret member of the KKK.

    Meanwhile back on planet Earth…….

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  101. Griff (8,159 comments) says:

    Meh
    Sarah gets a plug at mad.

    After her disastrous Vice Presidential run and equally-doomed reality show, we were all left wondering what Sarah Palin would do next. Lucky for us (we were running low on material), the Sarah Palin Channel launched today! A brand new, one-stop shop for lame-brained ideas and right wing lunatic fringe talking points, it’s already giving Fox News a run for it’s money! Speaking of money, for those who can’t afford the $9.95 monthly subscription, we cut through the media filters and present…
    http://www.madmagazine.com/blog/2014/07/28/mads-unfiltered-look-at-the-new-sarah-palin-channel

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  102. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    Shawn LH , our former US resident and self appointed sole expert on that country’s affairs . You’ve obviously forgotten that the US is a democracy with constitutional protections of free speech. Jimmy Carter is entitled to his opinions even if we may find them disagreeable. Opinions that if you even had half your way would almost evaporate in the land of the free.et the mid term congressional elections roll on and in the name of the Constitution and free speech . As indicated a sentiment you do not obviously share.

    Meanwhile at least amore nuanced Rand Paul appreciates the real complexities of Foreign Policy which a clown like you Palin and Ted Cruz could never grasp,

    http://www.businessinsider.com.au/rand-paul-foreign-policy-2013-2

    Meanwhile l

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  103. lilman (965 comments) says:

    Love the thought that Penny may pay her rates one day.

    Pay what you owe.

    Pay your rates.

    Why are you dishonest?

    Why are you stealing?

    When will you do the right thing?

    Penny,what does it feel like to knowingly take services and the lie about your reason for the theft.

    Pay your rates.

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  104. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Hamas Body Armour

    http://tinyurl.com/px7cctl

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  105. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    “Shawn LH , our former US resident and self appointed sole expert on that country’s affairs”

    Stephie, our resident internet expert on the US. :)

    ” You’ve obviously forgotten that the US is a democracy with constitutional protections of free speech”

    No, that would be the Democrats who promote hate speech laws.

    “. Jimmy Carter is entitled to his opinions”

    And because of free speech I’m entitled to call him a stain on the US.

    “Opinions that if you even had half your way would almost evaporate in the land of the free.et the mid term congressional elections”

    Real; free speech is better protected by Republicans, not Dems.

    “Meanwhile at least amore nuanced Rand Paul appreciates the real complexities of Foreign Policy which a clown like you Palin and Ted Cruz could never grasp,”

    Rand Paul? The Tea Party guy? The guys you attack on a regular basis?

    Any port in a storm eh Stephie?

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  106. graham (2,346 comments) says:

    Funny thing – Penny has been asked several questions that are VERY pertinent for somebody who supposedly wishes to represent the people of Helensville in Parliament, and is standing on a platform of transparency, accountability and openness. And yet she refuses to answer ANY of them.

    On the 4th of August, Nostradamus asked some VERY good questions here:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/general_debate_5_august_2014.html#comment-1373380

    I noted the following statement on your blog:

    I believe that is high time that NZ got our ‘House’ in order, and established the legislative framework to prevent and fight corruption, and ensure genuine transparency and accountability in local and central government and within the judiciary.

    If you support the ‘self-funded’ work I am doing – your donations are welcome and appreciated.

    Kiwibank

    Account Name: P M Bright
    Account Number: [redacted]

    Thanks! :)

    So, Penny, let’s put your transparency claims to the test:

    1. How many people have made donations through your website since you posted your bank account details?

    2. In the last financial year:

    – What was the total amount donated?
    – Who made the smallest donation, and how much was their donation?
    – Who made the largest donation, and how much was their donation?

    3. Have you spent any of the total amount donated in the last financial year?

    4. If yes to 3, please specify: (i) each item purchased; (ii) when it was purchased; (iii) the purpose for which it was purchased; and (iv) the relevant amount.

    5. In your Return of Electoral Donations and Expenses form, you declared an amount of $42.78 spent on “4 cans spray ink”? Given the unusual nature of that purchase in the context of a mayoral campaign, did the amount of $42.78 come from donations? Were the “4 cans spray ink” used to deface other candidates’ signs?

    6. Have you retained any of the total amount donated in the last financial year as remuneration (however characterised) for your “self-funded work”?

    7. If yes to 6, how much have you retained, and for what purpose?

    8. If yes to 6, have you, or do you intend to, declare the retained amount in your tax return?

    Your answers – all in the name of transparency – will be of considerable interest to Kiwiblog readers and the IRD!

    Just in case Penny missed it, I pointed her to it again on the 5th of August.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/christchurch_council_considers_partial_privatisations.html#comment-1373862

    On a different subject, on the 4th of August, Penny was singing the praises of Grace Haden for her policies and “proven track record in fighting corruption”. I asked Penny to provide the INDEPENDENT evidence of what Grace Haden has actually achieved.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/rankin_for_epsom.html#comment-1373364

    Not surprisingly, Penny – outspoken champion of TRANSPARENCY and ACCOUNTABILITY – has not answered any of these questions.

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  107. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (3,761 comments) says:
    August 6th, 2014 at 2:39 pm

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…!

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  108. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    i have to smile when some of our more rabid posters here on Mr Farrars great site,say with complete sincerity that its COMMUNISTIC to stop a CAPITALIST selling land to COMMUNIST CHINA….rabid ranters what a laugh and you believe in what you post………………….WTF

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  109. Ross12 (1,453 comments) says:

    This morning Cunliffe was almost gloating about the dairy price dropping , saying this put the recovery in danger. Since then, all day Labour have been announcing new spending initiatives .

    So where is the money coming from ??? Surely he learnt something at Boston consulting !! Sorry , I forgot about Russel’s printing press –that makes it easy for them

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  110. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    “ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…!”

    Yes Stephie, I already knew you were asleep at the wheel! :)

    P.S. If you have lost the debate and are lost for words there is no shame in admitting it. :)

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  111. Pete George (23,680 comments) says:

    Guy McCallum explains his resignation:

    So on Thursday I made a decision to leave ACT because of differences in approach to Race Relations policy. This news has inevitably made it (big deep breath) into the world of public opinion.

    This is where I’m coming from.

    According to Radio Live, Jamie still likes me. However, that doesn’t change the fact that if Maori had their so-called ‘privilege’ taken away, I would still have mine as a Pakeha male. This is why I believe that indigenous rights are important; in Canada, indigenous rights are enshrined. Indigenous First Nation and Inuit people no longer have to tolerate neglect nor prejudice from governments and from other people. Their individual rights are protected from ethnic discrimination.

    In NZ, all of our rights can be changed by law with astonishing speed and arrogance. Despite Maori legal rights being subject to that danger too, they are there to prevent discrimination based on someone’s identification as Maori. It is fair, still, that these rights imply obligations on the authority which violated those rights for so, so long.

    Opposition to Maori legal rights cannot be excused by having Maori friends. I have taken this stand to show that one must defend their friends’ rights to be counted the same as I.

    Neither can we appeal to voters, reporters and commentators for a civil debate, when we intend to shoot down those who disagree. That is no way to conduct a civil debate about a long and undignified chapter of NZ history.

    When this is understood, and the lessons of this moment (and history) are learned, we could right a lot of wrongs and confidently open our worlds to one another. I patiently await the day.

    And a big shout out to Dr Janine Hayward. She singled me out in an Indigenous Politics class and said that Don Brash had a lot of explaining to do. Instead, I took that moment to do a lot of thinking. I also want to thank those who have supported me as I enter this vulnerable chapter.

    https://www.facebook.com/guy.mccallum1/posts/10204566153413769

    He is getting a lot of support for his comments and stance.

    It shouldn’t be underestimated how much differently younger people understand indigenous rights and Maori issues – even young ACT Party members – than the older generations.

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  112. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    “He is getting a lot of support for his comments and stance.”

    I support him Pete. Whyte’s cynical attempt to bump up his dismal poll ratings was transparent. And given that ACT’s alternative budget supported current funding for treaty claims, it can reasonably be said that he’s not being entirely honest, or at least clear, about where ACT stands.

    Good on McCallum for actually showing some consistent principles.

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  113. Yoza (1,906 comments) says:

    mandk (830 comments) says:
    August 6th, 2014 at 1:28 pm

    @Yoza,

    Q. Why aren’t Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia vociferously supporting Hamas and condemning Israel?

    A. Because they are US client states.

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  114. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    “A. Because they are US client states.”

    No, because unlike you they want real peace and they understand that HAMAS is a front for Iran.

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  115. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    The Sesame Street word of the day is *drum roll* Pete Georgeism (noun): to sit on the fence.

    Pete George (22,917 comments) says:
    August 6th, 2014 at 8:11 am

    Act candidate for Dunedin North (and Act board member) Guy McCallum has officially resigned and withdrawn his candidacy as the result of “the development of a race relations policy” that “blindsided” him.

    This publicity may help or hinder Act. It could also adversely affect National’s chances.

    Further illustrations:

    – Today it may or may not rain.
    – Dunedin may or may not be the best city in New Zealand.
    – Peter Dunne may or may not be the best New Zealand politician in living memory.
    – Pete George may or may not laugh at this comment :)

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  116. Pete George (23,680 comments) says:

    I’ve become disappointed with Jamie Whyte. He is intelligent and interesting but his communication skills are letting him (and Act) down badly. It was not just the content of his legal equality/Maori speech and responses that created an adverse reaction, it was how he handled it that’s of concern.

    David Seymour looks good for Epsom so Act may survive for another term but the wider rebuilding of the party is under serious jeopardy unless Whyte switches on to engaging with people effectively.

    If he doesn’t get it right quickly Whyte may end up being another David Shearer – nice guy, good at some things but sucks as a leader.

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  117. Pete George (23,680 comments) says:

    Laugh more at you Nostradamus. Act will gain something and lose something from more publicity on this issue. Who knows how much it will help or hinder their chances at this stage?

    Nostradamus may or may not be right, but who knows? Naming yourself after one of the most vague soothsayers is also funny.

    Perhaps you’ve already written a quatrain predicting the election outcome.

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  118. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    You go Penny Bright even if i disagreed with your stance on ISRAEL/gaza, you have more balls and do more things than the nah saying wankers who doubt your passion and are online bullies and you keyboard whimps stand out like pimples on a smooth backside,you should form a group

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  119. ShawnLH (5,661 comments) says:

    “I’ve become disappointed with Jamie Whyte.”

    Well, he is a Liberal, so I never expected much anyway.

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  120. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Pete George:

    Here’s how you avoid impaling yourself on the fence post:

    – Voters who agree with a significant proportion of Act’s policies, including the one-law-for-all principle, will probably vote for Act.
    – Voters who agree with a significant proportion of Act’s policies, excluding the one-law-for-all principle, may still vote for Act.
    – Voters who disagree with a significant proportion of Act’s policies, regardless of their view on the one-law-for-all principle, won’t vote for Act.

    So, in terms of your help/hinder question, the recent development will (for the most part) simply confirm existing voter preferences, won’t it?

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  121. kowtow (8,733 comments) says:

    McCallum and so called “indigenous rights”.

    Canada.

    Those rights are so entrenched that the law requires judges to take the race of an offender,if he is so called “indigenous” into account when sentencing!!!

    Equality before the law? Nope. Special treatment based on race.

    That’s racism and should be illegal.

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  122. Sofia (862 comments) says:

    Kumeu Baptist Church is a Christian congregation serving the Kumeu community in Auckland, and seeking, engaging, and encouraging others through a life-changing Christian journey.
    Kumeu Baptist Church seeks to be a loving, friendly community that worships God, and serves others.

    We place a high priority on teaching from the Bible and following the example of Jesus.
    Our vision is to impact and renew Kumeu, Auckland and beyond with the transforming message of Jesus Christ through words and actions.

    Penny Tarnish, give unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s – in this case Len Brown
    In other words, Jesus would pay his rates. So should you :-)

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  123. Pete George (23,680 comments) says:

    “So, in terms of your help/hinder question, the recent development will (for the most part) simply confirm existing voter preferences, won’t it?”

    Not necessarily. Many voters ponder many things before deciding who to vote for, and one significant issue, policy or stuffup can make the difference. Here’s one reaction:

    To be honest, if ACT believe that Jamie Whyte is the answer, it must have been a stupid question!

    I have been an ACT supporter for the last three elections – but no more.

    I’ve never encountered someone so aloof, and seemingly uninterested, as Jamie Whyte. It sounds to me like he considers politics to be beneath him.

    As John Banks was recently quoted as saying in the NZ Herald, “Jamie struggles to relate to people, and, as such, will never make it in politics”

    Not sure where that fits into your three options.

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  124. Ross12 (1,453 comments) says:

    Greenpeace lose their charity status court case. Fantastic !!!

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  125. Pete George (23,680 comments) says:

    The claims following that are confusing Ross12.

    Greenpeace Win Supreme Court Battle

    Campaigning organisations can register as charities, the Supreme Court ruled this afternoon.

    The ruling comes after a long-running court battle waged by Greenpeace.

    Today, the Supreme Court overruled the Court of Appeal, saying that that charities can engage in political activities.

    Bunny McDiarmid, Greenpeace’s executive director, said: “This decision makes New Zealand democracy a little stronger. It means that the Supreme Court has now recognised that trying to change our world for the better, and taking on government to do that, is a public good.

    “This has been a legal marathon, and it’s great to see that New Zealand democracy took out the gold.”

    But…

    @GraemeEdgeler

    I’ve read the Supreme Court’s decision. It did not do this. @GreenpeaceNZ

    Who is right?

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  126. Ross12 (1,453 comments) says:

    PG — I was only going on what the radio news reports said and Yahoo News. Good to see Graeme Edgeler agreeing.

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  127. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    Pete George:

    The decision and media release can be found here.

    Quoting from the media release:

    This appeal concerned the extent to which purposes that are “political” (including those that advocate particular views) can be charitable and the extent to which an entity which engages in illegal activities or has illegal purposes can be charitable.

    The Supreme Court by majority (comprising Elias CJ, McGrath and Glazebrook JJ) allowed the appeal against the Court of Appeal’s determination that a political purpose cannot be a charitable purpose.

    The majority held that a political purpose exclusion should no longer be applied in New Zealand. They concluded that a blanket exclusion of political purposes is unnecessary and distracts from the underlying inquiry whether a purpose is of public benefit within the sense the law recognises as charitable. They rejected the conclusion of the Court of Appeal that s 5(3) of the Charities Act enacts a political purpose exclusion with an exemption if political activities are no more than “ancillary”. Rather, s 5(3) provides an exemption for noncharitable activities if ancillary.

    The Court unanimously dismissed the appeal against the Court of Appeal’s determination that purposes or activities that are illegal or unlawful preclude charitable status. The Court held that an illegal purpose is disqualifying and that illegal activity may disqualify an entity from registration when it indicates a purpose which is not charitable even though such activity would not justify removal from the register of charities under the statute.

    I’ve bolded what I consider to be the key sentence.

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  128. Nostradamus (3,433 comments) says:

    And the relevant part of the court decision (paragraph [104]):

    The matter of the charitable status of the purposes of Greenpeace has not been considered on the correct basis. Although it may be doubtful on the material before the Court that charitable purpose can be established, it is inappropriate for such assessment to be undertaken as a matter of first and last impression in this Court. The Court of Appeal has acknowledged that the changes to Greenpeace’s objects make it necessary for Greenpeace to have the opportunity to provide further evidence about its activities. That was the basis on which the case was returned to the chief executive and Board for further consideration. The assessment of charitable purpose is theirs in the first instance. If it is concluded that the object of promoting nuclear disarmament and the elimination of weapons of mass destruction is not shown to be charitable, then the question whether the activities undertaken by Greenpeace are no more than ancillary to its charitable purposes will require further assessment by the chief executive and Board, as the Court of Appeal required. In all the circumstances, the best course seems to us to be to remit the application for reconsideration in the light of the changes to the Greenpeace objects and in the light of the reasons in this Court.

    So, the Supreme Court has doubts about whether Greenpeace’s purposes are charitable, but the matter will be determined by the chief executive of the Department of Internal Affairs and the Charities Board.

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  129. Manolo (14,030 comments) says:

    Stephieboy will be worried:
    The frustration carries over to the nation’s political leaders, with President Barack Obama’s overall approval rating hitting a new low at 40 percent…

    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/americas-fed-obama-approval-rating-hits-all-time-low-poll-n173271

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  130. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    For those that are interested in the Crewe murders, 3 Degrees is featuring it tonight.

    The Murder Weapon
    One of New Zealand’s most controversial crimes is back in the spotlight – so who killed the Crewes? An in depth investigation with journalist Melanie Reid.

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  131. Manolo (14,030 comments) says:

    Worth reading: http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/is-thinking-now-obsolete/

    Some have said that we are living in a post-industrial era, while others have said that we are living in a post-racial era. But growing evidence suggests that we are living in a post-thinking era.

    Many people in Europe and the Western Hemisphere are staging angry protests against Israel’s military action in Gaza. One of the talking points against Israel is that far more Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israeli military attacks than the number of Israeli civilians killed by the Hamas rocket attacks on Israel that started this latest military conflict.

    Are these protesters aware that vastly more German civilians were killed by American bombers attacking Nazi Germany during World War II than American civilians killed in the United States by Hitler’s forces?

    Has any other country, in any other war, been expected to keep the enemy’s civilian casualties no higher than its own civilian casualties? The idea that Israel should do so did not originate among the masses but among the educated intelligentsia.

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  132. Ross12 (1,453 comments) says:

    Nostradamus @ 4.21pm

    Thanks for your posts. If it is now back in the hands of the Dept of Internal Affairs CEO then it is back to where it started and I’d expect their original decision to stand. That is, they lose their charity status and pay tax.

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  133. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    Judith, just hope long time David Bain supporter Melanie Reid makes a better job than she did against his fathers alleged gun shot residue marks.?

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  134. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    Manolo, not bad when considering your GWB “s lowest rating was 19%,

    http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/data_access/data/presidential_approval.html

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  135. Sofia (862 comments) says:

    Penny, I would pay special interest to the wording of ads for the meeting you want to attend – if it purports relating to or representative of the Helensville Electroate and doesn’t include you, there may be a case for the Electoral Commission to answer in terms of misrepresentation or inaccuracy of not publicizing ALL candidates standing.

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  136. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly quoting the New Testament when he does not believe in it in the first place is amusing.

    You don’t know what I believe, Shawn. The original verse was from Isaiah, and was about Israel.

    Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
    Isaiah 6:10

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  137. Harriet (5,118 comments) says:

    Manolo#

    You’re right – people don’t think.

    We didn’t fuck around with a ceasefire over Dresden and Horishima.

    We leveled Dresden and burnt Horishima to the ground.

    We don’t currently have a ceasefire with terrorists either.

    Israel is not allowed to defend itself. Israel instead is expected to have continual ceasefires with everyone —– including terrorists who continuly ignore them.

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  138. cricko (359 comments) says:

    Wow.

    Some would find it hard tp credit that here we have, ” UglyTruth” back again, still trying to push a non point that
    was demolished on GD yesterday. (I’ll give you chapter and verse if I can be buggered looking up the times, and I can’t at present.)

    This person even got to the stage of having to agree that they had it all wrong, but here they are, popping up again
    pushing the same sicko, silly barrow.

    Wanna do it all over again Ugly ?

    Have you no shame ?

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  139. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    We didn’t fuck around with a ceasefire over Dresden and Horishima.

    Which resulted in holocaust for those unfortunate enough to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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  140. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Some would find it hard tp credit that here we have, ” UglyTruth” back again, still trying to push a non point that
    was demolished on GD yesterday.

    You mean when you tried to make a point using a mistranslation of the Quran, and didn’t quite seem to get the point about the nature of abrogation in Islam?

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  141. Scott Chris (6,176 comments) says:

    Anyone who likes astronomy will find this interesting:

    For the past year, astronomers around the world have been watching the center of the Milky Way in anticipation of a once-per-eon event. Right around now (or, technically, 24,000 years ago—that’s roughly how far away the galactic center is in light years), a cloud of gas and dust plummeting toward our galaxy’s supermassive black hole, Sagittarius A*, is expected to make its closest approach. The black hole’s tidal forces should then rip the cloud to shreds. Eventually, Sagittarius A* might even swallow some of those shreds. And if that happens? Fireworks. X-rays and other radiation should rain down on all those watchful telescopes back on Earth. For the first time, we will have witnessed a black hole eating in real time.

    http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/dark-star-diaries/2014/05/02/cloud-bound-for-milky-ways-black-hole-puzzles-astronomers/

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  142. Gulag1917 (982 comments) says:

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  143. Gulag1917 (982 comments) says:

    “Israel is not allowed to defend itself”
    Wonder why they spend 5.6% % of the economy on defence?
    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS

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  144. cricko (359 comments) says:

    UglyTruth

    stop digging you fool.

    No. I mean the part where you said that you had it wrong.

    Sillybilly.

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  145. Fletch (6,486 comments) says:

    It is looking like that U.N school that people say Israel bombed on Sunday was not. Missiles were fired at the outside of the school, where Israel was targetting launchers. Gazans then dragged dead bodies inside the school to make it look like the school had been hit, when it hadn’t.

    http://israelmatzav.blogspot.co.nz/2014/08/pallywood-how-hamas-set-up-attack.html

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  146. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    I love this image and quote:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-05/difference-between-war-revolution

    “War is when Governments tell you who is the enemy, Revolution is when you finally figure out who is the real enemy”

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  147. itstricky (1,880 comments) says:

    And… In the Things You Won’t See On KB category today, we have:

    http://m.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11304781

    “Act’s policies are about reminding you of scary burglars, zealous bureaucrats with a hidden green agenda, and resentful Maori of taking an equal placing. This is the imagery the vague words are designed to create. Liberals and libertarians are getting a rough deal from ACT.

    “The positive ideals they represent are used as currency to hedge conservative influence, like the Tea Party. A lot of libertarians have avoided ACT for these reasons. For wanting to change that, I find myself in present circumstances.”

    Mr McCallum said he had spoken to other members of the party “who are becoming concerned that ACT is focusing more on fear and prejudice to gain votes”.

    Tomorrow we’ll have a report on the National chap in Hamilton who might be charged with Electoral advertising wrong doings -won’t we Keeping Stock?

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  148. itstricky (1,880 comments) says:

    “War is when Governments tell you who is the enemy, Revolution is when you finally figure out who is the real enemy”

    Is that like when Jamie tells you Maori are the enemy?

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  149. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    No tricky – the current divide in New Zealand is not created by the people. I play rugby, work alongside and have many friends who are Maori. When I interact with them, I treat them as equals – I judge them as individuals based on their character and that is it.

    It is the succession of Labour & National Governments that want to play divide and conquer and insist on giving some of my group of friends legal & financial privileges depending on who their ancestors are. These manipulative governments are the enemy, not my friends, they are the ones that want to create division when there was none.

    Jamie Whyte, Colin Craig et all would much rather we lived in a united country rather than a divided country of competing tribes on our knees to Big Government begging for favours and handouts.

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  150. Scott Chris (6,176 comments) says:

    Not the expected fireworks it turns out:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/22/gas-cloud-black-hole-video_n_5609134.html

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  151. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth,

    A recent German Commission has established at best estimates that no more than 25,000 were killed as result of the Dresden bombing , This out of a total population of 3/4 of a million plus increase due to the arrival of refugees from the East .
    Hardly a Holocaust ,

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/death-toll-debate-how-many-died-in-the-bombing-of

    At Hiroshima some 135, 000 casualties out of a population of 255,000.Still hardly a holocaust when one considers the Nazis almost completely murdered and eliminated Poland’s 2.3 million Jews.

    http://www.atomicarchive.com/Docs/MED/med_chp10.shtml

    Your comparisons are often used by Jewish Holocaust Deniers to advanced their spurious arguments of ” equivalence ” i.e the fate of the Jews in WW2 is equivalent to those experienced at Dresden and Hiroshima .

    Not true.

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  152. Reid (16,632 comments) says:

    Traumatized by Israel’s atrocities, Gazan kids are the most important problem the besieged enclave is facing, Press TV reports.

    “Children refuse to talk. I could barely make anyone speak to me today because they are so traumatized they cannot even comprehend what’s happening around them,” said Halla Alsafadi, Press TV’s correspondent in Gaza, on Tuesday…

    …“The amount of destruction in unbearable and it needs years to be rebuilt,” Alsafadi said.

    Pernille Ironside, the head of the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF) in Gaza, said earlier in the day that the war has had a “catastrophic and tragic impact” on children.

    “There isn’t a single family in Gaza which hasn’t been touched by direct loss,” Ironside said, noting, “The impact that has on the ability of children to cope cannot be overstated… They have seen their friends and their parents die.”

    So far, about 1,900 people have been killed and over 9,500 others injured by the Israeli regime’s massive offensive that began on July 8…

    But that’s OK. According to many here, they deserve it, it’s their fault. They made Israel do it. They’re untermenschen. According to many here.

    Where have we heard that before?

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  153. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    Excellent piece by Thomas Sowell:

    http://www.infowars.com/is-thinking-now-obsolete/

    “Some have said that we are living in a post-industrial era, while others have said that we are living in a post-racial era. But growing evidence suggests that we are living in a post-thinking era.”

    On the Western Intelligentsia views on Israel/Palestine:
    “Has any other country, in any other war, been expected to keep the enemy’s civilian casualties no higher than its own civilian casualties? The idea that Israel should do so did not originate among the masses but among the educated intelligentsia”

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  154. Viking2 (11,553 comments) says:

    Greenpeace has won the right to register as a charity, the Supreme Court found today.

    Greenpeace has been involved in a lengthy court battle after a previous application to register as a charity was dismissed because it was found to be too political and its protests could land them on the wrong side of the law.

    Today the Supreme Court found that political advocacy for a charitable undertaking is allowed.

    In light of this decision Greenpeace will now have to the right to apply to the Charities Board, formerly the Charities Commission, for reconsideration.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11304925
    ===========================
    wht a shameful day in court.

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  155. Odakyu-sen (732 comments) says:

    In other news: oil price drops to $US97.33 a barrell, and yet the local Zed is stuck at $2.21 a liter (as it was when oil was around $104 a barrel). The $NZ has only dropped slightly again the greenback, so I would hope to see a fall at the pumps.

    Maybe I should fill up in South Auckland…

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  156. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    EAD,

    Interesting coming from the likes of Thomas Sowell and Alex Jones.Hardly original or profound thinkers. Both more of the birdbrain variety .

    Post thinking era.?

    Rich irony there.

    http://littlegreenfootballs.com/page/287971_42_IDIOTIC_Alex_Jones_predicti

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  157. EAD (1,286 comments) says:

    Stephie – the article was written by Thomas Sowell. Who is this “Alex Jones” you refer to?

    Doesn’t the author in his piece express exactly the same opinion that you’ve been preaching on these blogs on the Israel/Palestine conflict? Are you saying he is wrong just because it comes from a source that you dismiss?

    Do you know what cognitive dissonance means – it is “the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs”

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  158. nasska (11,788 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/n34ex2hfxzt3sbw/It%20must%20be%20evil%2031.jpg

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  159. stephieboy (3,379 comments) says:

    EAD,

    Inforwars is hosted and run by Alex Jones . Am sure Jone’s would not of accepted Sowell’s contribution unless there was a meeting of minds in most areas .

    It’s conspiracy theorist who appear to have the highest incidence of cognitive dissonance judging by my link above.

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  160. oldpark (373 comments) says:

    noticed on Seven Sharp tonight the woman known as Toni Street crossed the line with her political comments putting the boot into John Key when he tolds the truth regarding the gangster crook Dotcon, Harres sugar daddy.Of course all she was doing was carrying on the theme of her Labour Party Channel TVNZ and her sycophant Labour mate Corrin Dann.Seven Sharp has lost its innoncence.Street is now going down the wrong street with her holier than thou political comments supporting a paid dotcom sugar daddy prodigy.

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  161. nasska (11,788 comments) says:

    FOUR RELIGIOUS TRUTHS

    1. Muslims do not recognize Jews as God’s chosen people.
    2. Jews do not recognize Jesus as the Messiah.
    3. Protestants do not recognize the Pope as the leader of
    the Christian World.
    4. Baptists do not recognize each other at strip clubs.

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  162. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska (10,717 comments) says:
    August 6th, 2014 at 8:13 pm

    So from that, one can conclude that reading religious material will affect your eyesight to the degree that you are unable to recognise people?

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  163. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    I used to be a Presbyterian and I pretended I never recognised my Minister at the Quarry Inn! :)

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  164. nasska (11,788 comments) says:

    ….”So from that, one can conclude that reading religious material will affect your eyesight to the degree that you are unable to recognise people”….

    Definitely Judith. Studies suggest that it may actually be more damaging to your ocular health than gross masturbation. :)

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  165. stigie (1,310 comments) says:

    That link was a bit deflating Nasska…as deflating as someones blowup doll going down on him !~

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  166. nasska (11,788 comments) says:

    The Primary School concert is fast approaching, and Johnny has
    still not decided what he will do. Little Mary is going to
    do a piano solo, Timmy will recite a poem, but Johnny can’t
    come up with anything. Finally, his frustrated teacher is
    relieved when he tells her he has worked out his act.

    Come the night of the concert, all the proud parents fill
    the hall and watch as Mary, in her prettiest dress, tinkles
    the ivories to rapturous applause.

    Then Timmy steps out in his best suit and recites his poems
    to the delight of the audience.

    Finally, out comes Johnny, in chequered shirt and denim
    overalls. He steps up to the microphone and says,
    “Ladies and Gentlemen. My uncle owns a farm, and every
    holiday I visit him there. Tonight, I would like to
    share with you my impression of some of the many sounds
    I hear on my uncle’s farm. Here is the first:
    ‘JOHNNY! GET THE F***K OFF THAT TRACTOR!’
    ‘Johhnyy, close the F*****G gate!’
    ‘Johnny, get off that sheep and pull up your pants!'”

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  167. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    It was on a Monday after his Sunday sermon that began..”Let him who has no sin cast the first stone” :)

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  168. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Nasska

    I’m not so sure about this ocular health thing. Maybe a bit of deterioration is good … especially when …

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  169. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    No. I mean the part where you said that you had it wrong.

    What, you mean this?

    OK Ugly, lets have a truce.

    Why? You said that I was wrong before, but couldn’t back it up.

    You said that I misunderstood abrogration in Islam, but couldn’t say how that was so.

    But I admit that my earlier statement that “abrogation is based on the principle of replacing with something better, not worse” was inaccurate. What I should have said was that “In Islam there is no abrogation if the situation would be made worse by it”.

    If you want to continue to talk about Islam, fine. If you don’t want to then that’s OK as well.

    The thing that I find interesting is that when you argue with people who are anti-Islam, it usually turns out that they are either liars or airheads.

    Not sure were Cricko fits on the spectrum, but the only thing that was demolished was his idea that “if you yourself are not a muslim then they ARE your enemy” when he confused kafirs (non-belivers) with mush’rikīna (polytheists).

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  170. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    When we read Psalm 23, it is so idyllic: “The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want.” For someone to say that with any conviction, they must truly believe with all their heart that they shall not want. Yet all of us are always wanting something–whether it is success, healing, heart’s desires, or a miracle of some sort. Inside of us, is a whirlpool of things we want or desire. Sometimes we pray about them, yet many never pray at all. They just assume that since God knows everything, why pray? The good shepherd is looking out for us, but even a sheep goes “Baa-a-a” when hungry or thirsty or is hurting. What is meant is simply that when we pray we believe, and that settles the matter.

    “Be careful for nothing; but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God…” (Philippians 4:6)

    Yesterday, I brought a message about this at our church and it focused on a particular aspect I gleaned from that book. It had to do with the very next sentence of that Psalm, “He maketh me to lie down in green pastures.” Keller wrote that sheep refuse to lie down unless they are free of all fear. Not having been around sheep much, I was not aware of that particular trait, but it leaped out at me like a red light in an intersection.

    What does it mean when the psalm tells us that the Lord “maketh us to lie down in green pastures?”

    I can picture it for myself: a mattress of soft, green grass, cold shade under some tree, no noisy street traffic or worry from dangers or problems–just peaceful rest! Sometimes that is a shock to my system. The tv might have been blaring when I sit down to this computer and though I was not listening to it at all, it was interfering with my thoughts. What a blessed delicacy to just turn it off! The silence was like a cool shower. You and I, as the sheep of His pasture, were made to lie down in green pastures; to enjoy the rejuvenation of mind and body. Without it, we suffer in both those areas.

    But it is fear that keeps a sheep from lying down. There is a lot of tension in the flock; friction among themselves, rivalry and competition, fear of the unknown, just as in the world around us. It is only when the shepherd’s presence comes into view that things change. As Keller wrote: “It is the Shepherd’s presence that puts an end to all rivalry and fear. In our human relationships, when we become acutely aware of being in the presence of Christ, our foolish, selfish snobbery and rivalry will end. We know He will not allow anything to harm us. It is the humble heart walking quietly and contentedly in the close and intimate companionship of Christ that it can rest and relax, simply glad to lie down and let Him take care of things. When my eyes are on my Master, they are not on those around me or things that may bother me. This is the place of peace.”

    When we think of ourselves, we naturally focus on our problems, our situations. The things that are going on in our lives. But if they constantly bombard our thoughts, we form a roadway that eventually becomes a rut, and ruts are a problem with sheep too. Those well-worn areas get infested quickly and eventually destroy everything around it. Sheep are notorious for ruining the land, but only if they do not have a good shepherd that does not allow them to stay in one place for a long time. That is why the Shepherd keeps sheep “on the move”. The Greek for “sheep” is the word “probaton”: something that walks forward.

    Remember, fear keeps a sheep from lying down in green pastures. Can’t you see how we can easily end up as a sickly, wasted, confused, bitter and worn-out person when fear dominates our thoughts? Despite all the Shepherd’s efforts to save us, sheep cannot be made to do something contrary to their nature. It is their decision to trust or not to trust, to lie down in the green pastures provide them, or to wander off where predators await a ready meal.

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  171. nasska (11,788 comments) says:

    Sniff! That was beautiful JB…..just beautiful :)

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  172. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (15,116 comments) says:
    August 6th, 2014 at 8:35 pm

    Very philosophical Johnboy -

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  173. mikenmild (11,662 comments) says:

    I hope it consoles you after the trauma of the Jubilee Cup final.

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  174. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    After Sunday I’ve finally found the Lord and I am his shepherd! :)

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  175. Griff (8,159 comments) says:

    You can bugger the bear, if you do it with care,
    in the winter, when he is asleep in his lair,
    Though I would not advise it in spring or in fall–
    but the hedgehog can never be buggered at all.
    2.
    If you’re feeling quite coarse, you can bugger the horse,
    or the palfrey, the jennet, the stallion (with force),
    You can bugger the donkey, the mare, or the mule,
    Though to bugger the pony is needlessly cruel.
    3.
    You can bugger the ox (if you stand on a box)
    And vulpologists say you can bugger the fox,
    You can bugger the shrew, though it’s awfully small–
    but the hedgehog cvan never be buggered at all.
    4.
    Herptologists gasp you can bugger the asp,
    Entymologists claim you can bugger the wasp.
    If an insects your thing, man, then just have a ball–
    But the hedgehog can never be buggered at all.
    5.
    And the elephant too, that you meet in the zoo,
    Can be buggered if you are sure just what to do,
    You will need a large mattress upon which to fall–
    but the hedgehog cvan never be buggered at all.
    6.
    You can bugger the bees if your down on your knees,
    You can bugger the termites with terminal ease
    you can bugger the beetle, the ladybug (bird!) too,
    there’s no end to the buggering that you can do.
    7.
    You can bugger the cat if it isn’t to fat
    You can bugger the rabbit you draw from your hat
    You can bugger the shark that you’ve chased in your yawl–
    but the hedgehog can never be buggered at all.
    8.
    You can bugger the ermine, and all other vermine,
    like rats, mice, and roaches, if your not discernin’.
    You can bugger the dog, it will come when you call–
    but the hedgehog can never be buggered at all.
    9.
    Although Mr. Tiggy is not very big, he
    Avoids with great ease those who fancy his arse.
    He just curls in a ball, shows his prickles and all–
    And the would-be seducer leaves himin the grass
    10.
    If you’re that kind of fool, and you have a long tool,
    Do it with a giraffe, if you stand on a stool,
    Catch a yeti, who lives in the snows of Nepal–
    but the hedgehog can never be buggered at all.
    11.
    For the hedgehog escapes the posterior rapes
    Performed upon others of different shapes
    Those who run, swim, or slither, they get it withal–
    But the hedgehog can never be buggered at all.
    12.
    It is said, if you try, you can bugger the fly,
    Or the swallow as it skims so skilfully by,
    Use a noose or a net, or lime (if you’ve the gall)–
    but the hedgehog can never be buggered at all
    13.
    You can bugger the cow (I will not tell you how),
    Or the boar, or the piglet, the shoat or the sow,
    You can bugger the ass as it stands in the stall–
    But the hedgehog can never be buggered at all.
    14.
    You can order or shoo ‘im, or run a knife through ‘im
    The one thing you cannot do is stick it to ‘im.
    If you try to seduce ‘im, you’ll end in a fix,
    His prickles defend him against rampant pricks.
    15.
    You can bugger the ram, you can bugger the lamb,
    You can bugger the ewe, though the wether’s a sham,
    You can bugger the tiger (it may caterwaul)
    But the hedgehog can never be buggered at all.
    16.
    You can bugger the seal, you can bugger the eel,
    You can bugger the crab, though they say it can’t feel,
    You can bugger the bat as the night casts its pall,
    But the hedgehog can never be buggered at all.
    17.
    You can bugger the snake (hold it down with a rake),
    Though to bugger the quetzal may be a mistake.
    You can bugger the billy, the nanny the kid,
    But to bugger the hedeghog just cannot be did.
    18.
    You can bugger the slug, though it messes the rug,
    You can bugger the different species of bug,
    Or do it with a snail, if you slow to a crawl,
    But the hedgehog can never be buggered at all.
    19.
    At the end of the day, when you’ve had your rough way
    With all of those creatures, you’ll just have to say
    “That damned Erinaceous has been my downfall–”
    For the hedgehog can never be buggered at all!

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  176. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    I’m going to stop eating triple cheeseburgers after watching Judith’s uplifting video as well! :)

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  177. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    What of the Porcupine Griff? :)

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  178. Maggy Wassilieff (442 comments) says:

    @ Griff
    These hedgehogs are managing
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00vdxxd

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  179. Fletch (6,486 comments) says:

    If the hedgehog could never be buggered (at least by other hedgehogs), I daresay it would be extinct by now?

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  180. Tauhei Notts (1,746 comments) says:

    Sort of off topic but for those who have My Sky the channel 90 Al Jazeera has a bit on New Zealand at 8.00 a.m. tomorrow.
    It will be a test of that channel’s credibility.
    As I have written before; when I commenced in professional practice I was solemnly told that;
    “Credibility is like virginity. You only lose it once.”
    I hope the Al Jazeera channel does not deflower itself.

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  181. SPC (5,770 comments) says:

    An election about ACT and United enabling National to sell off public assets at below fair value and also sell off farmland to foreigners at world market prices with no CGT applying to the profits to the domestic sellers.

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  182. Manolo (14,030 comments) says:

    Scum of the worst kind: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/11011634/Islamic-States-new-icon-is-a-hipster-jihadi.html

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  183. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Speaking of liars and airheads, here’s Manolo….

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  184. Griff (8,159 comments) says:

    Manolo has been sitting in his darkened room for the last two hours slowly typing out his latest single sentence blurt.
    The real question is.
    Where is Manolos brain ?
    Sure aint with him .

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