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November 4, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 04 November 2020

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General Debate

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mikenmildagain

For those who might be upset by the US election results, you are in luck. Today is the feast for Saint Charles Borromeo, who may be invoked against ulcers, colic and intestinal disorders.
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November 4, 2020 8:02am
- Jimmy White
  
  Its also National Chicken Lady Day which is being pushed as a National holiday in NZ in Honour of te Cindy the Great
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:15am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Jimmy bro – Cindy the Great kicked ass in 2020 elections bro. Even the Tarankai sheeple voted for her. So take it on the chin and start worshipping.
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:29am
    - C J Southern
      
      She’s well on her way to sainthood – just 1 more miracle to go …
      
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      November 4, 2020 10:18am
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        I thought she already was a saint – what’s the next level up?
        
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        November 4, 2020 11:45am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Martyr
        
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        November 4, 2020 3:26pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Nigella Sativa oil is used for internal medicine too. The seeds were in King Tut’s tomb.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:47am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Didn’t work out that well for the Tutman, then?
    
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    November 4, 2020 8:49am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      He didn’t enjoy good health, and was only about 18 when he died.
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:19am
- Don Beckett
  
  Well done MMA – you beat me to it. 🙂
  
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  November 4, 2020 11:08am
TWEEDSE

I see the Maori council are criticising the UK Times headline “Ardern appoints tattooed Maori woman as foreign minister”.

Seems odd to criticise the headline when it is pure fact without emotion or interpretation. A rare event in modern media.

Wikipedia definition of tattoo:

“A tattoo is a form of body modification where a design is made by inserting ink, dyes and pigments, either indelible or temporary, into the dermis layer of the skin to change the pigment. The art of making tattoos is tattooing.”

Yep, seems pretty accurate to me.

Adding significance to a tattoo is a personal or group belief. It is not a fact.
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November 4, 2020 8:04am
- MCos
  
  The Times must have taken notice and subsequently changed the headline.
  https://www.thetimes.co.uk/past-six-days/2020-11-02/world/ardern-appoints-maori-mp-nanaia-mahuta-as-foreign-minister-nkvxksbn5
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:25am
  - jv
    
    Great assessment from Chris Trotter says it all on Bowalley Road
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:12am
    - Tall Man
      
      He often hits the nail on the head and in this instance he is right to criticise,
      
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      November 4, 2020 10:15am
      - Jack5
        
        At the Red Radio web site, a young (and very pale) law graduate who identifies as Maori comments:
        
        The origins of Maori diplomacy is [sic] as ancient as our people. It’s in our bones. Our tikanga and kawa (values and protocols) were formed to enable us to forge enduring connections: people to people, culture to culture, chief to chief. Traditionally, we were (and many still are) taught the art of diplomacy on the marae from the time of our births. Practicing and adapting those tikanga, our tipuna navigated and negotiated their passage through new territories from China to Taiwan, weaving down through South East Asia and across the Pacific. Engaging with diverse cultures and transforming their own.
        
        Polynesian DNA traces back over 5000 years to Taiwan, to people who are now remote hill tribes on that island, and make up 2.3 per cent of Taiwan’s population.
        
        Mixed with these ancestors genes are genetic traces from Melanesian people of Papua New Guinea. Now there is much European DNA among Maori.
        
        To claim a heritage of international diplomacy from a mere DNA trail is ludicrous.
        
        Others might describe a Maori tradition of diplomacy as negotiation by centuries of tribal warfare entailing slavery and cannibalism.
        
        This article suggests that, since the coup by Labour MP Wily Willie Jackson gave Maori control of Radio NZ, the broadcaster has become a joke.
        
        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/429847/carrie-stoddart-smith-nanaia-mahuta-s-appointment-returns-legacy-of-tipuna-to-foreign-policy
        
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        November 4, 2020 5:42pm
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Genuine question: When did you arrive here from Britain?
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:26am
- KiwiSapper
  
  ” the Maori council”? Oh, the group whose website’s latest post was made over two years ago.
  
  Pft.
  
  I agree totally with your view and the way you have expressed it and shudder with thinking of the impression the incumbent will give to others about New Zealand and New Zealanders.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:27am
  - amospicton
    
    Isn’t it bizarre the local media celebrate the diversity of the appointment and then criticise foreign media for doing likewise. It is afterall a tattoo – we can’t surely expect the term moko to be known in the UK? Could it be that the Times is supposedly conservative?
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:08am
    - Batman
      
      They’re just generating clicks (that initially autocorrected to cocks and that seems fitting!)
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:15am
    - Jimmy White
      
      Put Moko into a translator and your get Tattoo.
      We pander to the 6/7% in NZ who speak Maori. Do they want to UK press to do the same for the 0.001% of UK citizens who speak Maori over there.
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:57am
  - Positan
    
    In foreign affairs, if the first responsibility of government are to act credibly and to appear as assimilable as possible to those with whom we seek to have dealings and commerce – then, irrespective of Mahuta’s capabilities, it’s a given that in some quarters her facial appearance is not going to do the interests of NZ any favours at all.
    
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    November 4, 2020 10:52am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Maybe they were celebrating diversity.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:29am
  - Ruahine
    
    I think it is a masterstroke by Ardern to appoint Nanaia Mahuta as Foreign Minister. The world can now see what a true Maori is and looks like.
    Winston Peters is not a true Maori neither is Paula Bennett or Simon Bridges.
    
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    November 4, 2020 8:47am
    - Nickc2
      
      Wake up to reality. There are no true (100%) Maoris.
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:22am
      - sooty
        
        Then she opens her mouth and removes all doubts!
        
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        November 4, 2020 9:52am
    - JackRabbit
      
      From my understanding, and going way back to traditional Maori, a tattoo was not automatic. It was a mark or symbol of power.
      
      Power through achievements, and currency of the day, were things like how victorious in battle, i.e. how many of the enemy were dispatched or eaten; loyalty to the chief, how many females you may have dragged back to the tribe. Of perhaps as a loyal wife of a great chief.
      
      In some cases some people were forbidden to get tattoos because they had not earned them. Getting a tattoo you had not earned could cost you your head.
      
      Publicly visible “in your face” tattoos are also considered deeply offensive and vulgar in some societies where they have a belief that the “body is a temple” and should remain pure.
      
      Some Christian based societies find tattoos offensive.
      https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/bible-say-about-tattoos/
      
      There is a difference between a small one inch tattoo of a dolphin on your left breast or thigh, and a major tattoo that designated oneself as a warrior from 1600 with multiple kills, or as belonging to a certain tribe all over your face.
      
      Any tattoo, like any body piercing can be attractive or not. Tattoos, like piercings can be aesthetic and pleasing, others not. The Queen wearing gold earrings from pierced ears is beautiful. An aging and wrinkled Johnny Rotten with a face full of metal is not.
      
      Even wearing war medals everywhere you go is not in good taste, whether that be Ron Mark
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/ron-marks-rack-of-medals-breached-protocol/OGW5H6VPUMTT7URJWTGNJWMXK4/
      
      or Idi Amin.
      
      https://history.wikia.org/wiki/Idi_Amin
      
      If Mahuta actually had some crowning achievements that NZ could be proud of it might be different story. But I cannot find any.
      
      Labour zealots celebrate failure, societal collapse, and a return to an irrational uncivilised way of life.
      
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      November 4, 2020 10:07am
      - david
        
        But what about the dispensable slaves whose faces were tattooed in anticipation of their heads being shrunk and sold. Cultural misappropriation – much.
        
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        November 4, 2020 11:14am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @david
        
        Yep, happened in non-tribal societies also. Tar and feathering.
        
        Our forefathers teach us, in all matters of meet and greet, ambassadorship, and representation, be neutral and respectful. Having your beliefs and ego on display is not good ambassadorship.
        
        You are invited to a wedding or formal 21st birthday in the family of your new partner, and its a first time appearance where you will meet her parents, and you want to be taken seriously and make a good impression. Skull rings are removed, long sleeve shirt to hide the “grateful dead” tattoos you regrettably got as a teenager; even tattoos you got in the SAS are covered. Don’t talk religion or politics until you know the lie of the land.
        
        Neutral and respectful is the correct approach.
        Facial Tattoos and Piercings aren’t neutral and aren’t humble.
        
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        November 4, 2020 1:07pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      The UK may reply in kind and send over Johnny Rotten in full face metal as their delegate.
      
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      November 4, 2020 10:08am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Quite right: This is the new public face of New Zealand to the world. I am sure that the Chinese, Australian and American diplomats will be impressed.
      
      On the other hand, bend the knee, put on a feed, slip a few bucks koha to the King’s latest “financial advisors”, and get a clear run to buy up (sorry invest in the development of) the King country!
      
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      November 4, 2020 11:25am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Troll alert
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:16pm
  - rockape
    
    I will start celebrating diversity when these Maori MPs start celebrating the diversity within themselves. Me I celebrate my Scottish, Irish-and Manx heritage.
    
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    November 4, 2020 8:59am
    - sooty
      
      You could just about name them after the seven dwarfs!
      But they can’t all be called lazy!
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:55am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You will be deplatformed if you express a negative view about our Foreign Minister’s moko kauae.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/author-olivia-pierson-labels-nanaia-mahutas-moko-ugly-uncivilised-mighty-ape-pulls-books/WW6GEQON7BK4HADJW43Z3FPMEE/
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:37am
  - Catgurl13
    
    If anything it has drawn attention to that book and will make people want to read it. Maybe sales will now increase??
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:16am
    - artemisia
      
      Some Mighty Ape customers might now buy elsewhere. And not just the banned book. Similar happened with some companies and restaurants in the US that nailed their colours to a red or blue mast and promptly lost a chunk of their customer base.
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:31am
      - Catgurl13
        
        Going woke doesn’t always get you lots of support.
        
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        November 4, 2020 9:55am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Mighty Ape, you say? Sounds a bit raaaacist to me
        
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        November 4, 2020 1:08pm
    - oldfella
      
      Cat, it’s called the ‘Streisand’ effect, named after Barbra.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
      Worked recently with the Hunter Biden laptop.
      
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      November 4, 2020 10:30am
  - Deagle
    
    I also noticed that Fishpond has taken the book down too.
    However they are still selling books from Guevara and Goebbels..
    
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    November 4, 2020 10:10am
    - oldfella
      
      Deagle, it’s the modern version of book burning. Cancel culture reigns.
      
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      November 4, 2020 10:33am
      - Papalazarou
        
        I guess it’s more environmentally friendly //
        
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        November 4, 2020 12:52pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Maybe if they were commonplace they wouldn’t look so repulsive, but I am certain that to vast majority of humans on earth they look tremendously ugly, like you’ve vomited up a stomach full of spinach and not wiped your chin afterwards – viscerally repulsive. Facial tats are a good visible warning of people to be avoided as having nutty extremist beliefs – like brightly colored poisonous frogs. Bad choice to have her representing NZ offshore (lots of psychological test data to show that ugly people are at a disadvantage in negotiations), though I guess if she is just being wheeled out for the photo-ops at the end of deals that are being done by civil servants then it doesn’t matter, she’s really nothing more than a figurehead.
    
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    November 4, 2020 10:22am
    - oldfella
      
      Urban, I suspect that what you’ve just posted would be considered ‘Hate Speech’ under Angry Andy’s proposed law changes. Beware! 😉
      
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      November 4, 2020 10:37am
    - namron
      
      I consider all tattoos to be “graffiti” on the skin.
      Having a fat wobbly chin skinful is ridiculous and laughable.
      The wearer can’t even see it, but we have to put up with it!!
      
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      November 4, 2020 1:02pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      So if the person chosen to be an NZ delgate was a pastafarian, would Jacinda be OK with him/her wearing a colander?
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/student-blocked-from-wearing-colander-as-religious-headwear-hits-back/NKJBK2UQXWN5D2UDQBIUTN4MF4/
      
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      November 4, 2020 1:13pm
  - C J Southern
    
    I’m so conflicted; one one hand Might Ape appear to have gone all “woke” (which annoys me) – but on the other hand, when I read some of the other tweets Olivia Pierson has made I can only conclude that IMO she’s not particularly rational either.
    
    Man I miss the 60’s & 70’s.
    
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    November 4, 2020 10:24am
- Yvette
  
  Helen Clark and the Maori Council have spoken out against international media for describing Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta as a “tattooed Maori woman” and fixating on her appearance.
  
  Mahuta’s office declined to comment on the issue. They may be smarter than Clack.
  
  So there is a difference between the status and appreciation of a Maori moko, and the negative view of tattooing among the Japanese, for example. Between those views is the media doing what the media does.
  And Clark is not really helping (has her own agenda) as was the case when she condemned media questions about Ardern’s parenting intentions as a “sexist attack”, when it was Jacinda herself who willing raised the subject.
  
  “It’s a disgrace that one of our most recognised Māori leaders, who just happens to be a woman and carries a moko, is subjected to headlines that do more to grab attention and readers than it does to actually celebrate what has happened here – a Māori woman bringing a new perspective to the world of international affairs” – Māori Council executive chairman Matthew Tukaki
  
  “I think I can do [the job] in a different way. I think that we have the capacity now as a small nation to drive out different types of solutions – much of that is invested in our indigenous perspective and how we have been able to do things different domestically and take that out into the international forum“ – new Foreign Affairs Minister Nanaia Mahuta
  
  Can she explain just one example of what she refers to?
  A Maori indigenous perspective on any foreign incident?
  For example: Gunman who killed 4 in Vienna attack had sought to join Islamic State, police say.
  “This is not a conflict between Christians and Muslims or between Austrians and migrants. No, this is a fight between the many people who believe in peace and the few (who oppose it). It is a fight between civilisation and barbarism.” – Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz
  
  Is there an “indigenous perspective” on this type of incident, which we have until now missed?
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:43am
  - alphabeatrium
    
    It will amount to Tweeting out a Maori proverb in solidarity.
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:45am
  - oldfella
    
    Yvette, I love the bit about… “much of that is invested in our indigenous perspective and how we have been able to do things different domestically and take that out into the international forum”…
    I guess ‘indigenous perspective’ means she’s going to talk to the world about things like the way Maori kill their children in such disproportionate numbers. Yes?
    I wonder who’d write that speech?
    
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    November 4, 2020 10:44am
  - Sacha
    
    “Helen Clark and the Maori Council have spoken out against international media for describing Foreign Minister Nanaia Mahuta as a “tattooed Maori woman” and fixating on her appearance. ”
    
    The question is, when you see a photo portrait of someone who looks quite ordinary, but has a tattoo on her chin, and you are asked to describe that person, what would be the most distinguishing feature? The easiest way to identify her in a crowd? After all, it’s not as if she has a broken nose, or crossed eyes, or pink hair, or a distinctive birthmark . . . .
    That tattoo is meant to be noticed. The emotion resulting from the noticing is entirely up to the viewer. And she’ll always be recognised . . . . . .
    
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    November 4, 2020 11:03am
  - mark15
    
    Any criticism of our foreign minister is racist and to be instantly dismissed by everybody.
    That’s how it works now.
    
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    November 4, 2020 11:45am
    - Paulus
      
      This is just the start of a long and ignominious time for Maori who are well on the way of having the foreman’s job now having lost the workers one.
      Labour’s biggest future problem Parliament as Maori political aspirations are now in the forefront.
      
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      November 4, 2020 1:19pm
- Inandout
  
  And this is our foreign minister?
  ‘The majority of Sunni Muslims believe tattooing is a sin, because it involves changing the natural creation of God, inflicting unnecessary pain in the process. Tattoos are classified as dirty things, which is prohibited from the Islam religion’.
  
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  November 4, 2020 9:03am
  - Batman
    
    So?
    
    They can bloody well start respecting our culture.
    
    Don’t be such a cuck to others’ obscure religious requirements ?
    
    Whenever mid-east delegations came to NZ they always politely shook hands with women who wore western office attire and no headscarves etc
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:11am
    - Catgurl13
      
      Ok start visiting all the mosques and tell them that……we will all watch when you do.
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:17am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I’m sure Inandout is all about respecting Islamic customs….
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:20am
    - Tall Man
      
      “our culture”
      
      Not mine Batman.
      
      15% identify as Maori.
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:27am
    - freethinker
      
      That’s OK as western visitors to Islamic countries respect their culture so the issue is if you choose to emigrate to another culture and that culture is tolerant surely it requires the immigrant to adopt & accept the main tenets of their hosts whilst retaining their own culture but not trying to impose aspects of their culture of origin or expect concessions that their culture would not allow. Failure means such immigrants have moved to a place unsuitable for them or they are invaders bent on changing their hosts culture by whatever means they consider appropriate.
      
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      November 4, 2020 11:51am
  - Ruahine
    
    And quite right they are too.
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:16am
  - Jules99
    
    Hmmm… you’ve just given me a reason to like this appointment.
    
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    November 4, 2020 10:30am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Ive long pondered that my English ancestors used to wear powdered wigs and knee breaches a couple of hundred years ago and that I might also wear them to honour my ancestry.
  
  I wonder what sort of reaction I would get.
  
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  November 4, 2020 9:50am
  - SGA
    
    I’m sure you might make some interesting new friends. 🙂
    
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    November 4, 2020 10:02am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      well you will if your breeches have breaches!
      
      🙂
      
      OK, inner pedant off!
      
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      November 4, 2020 11:28am
- Lance
  
  The bastards mentioned her tattoo
  
  Oh look, the bastards didn’t mention her tattoo, what disrespect
  
  Welcome to woke world
  
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  November 4, 2020 10:04am
  - lifesgood
    
    It’s embarrassing that our minister of foreign affairs will present NZ to the world as primitive and will be regarded as nothing more than a curiosity. She will be regarded the same way as someone arriving with a bone through their nose. Her whole image is not the best, to be frank, not just the tattoo.
    
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    November 4, 2020 11:15am
    - Paulus
      
      Mahuta will not be allowed out of the South Pacific , Cinderella will take the big Jet to all other places where she can be seen to be wonderful.
      
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      November 4, 2020 1:22pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Well the Maori Council had better get used to it. Totally predictably, the Japanese press reacted exactly the same. (Well the English language Japanese daily anyway – I do not speak Japanese.)
  
  “Diverse New Zealand Cabinet includes tattooed Maori foreign minister and gay deputy PM”
  
  https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/11/02/world/politics-diplomacy-world/new-zealand-maori-foreign-minister-gay-deputy-prime-minister/
  
  Nothing about New Zealand foreign policy, or New Zealand – Japan relationship.
  
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  November 4, 2020 10:54am
  - freethinker
    
    I am sure the Japanese will not openly be horrified by mahutas appearance or think she is visiting as the NZ challenger in the Sumo wrestling events although they may privately think and talk that way, the Japanese are very polite & respectful in my experience.
    
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    November 4, 2020 11:57am
Scott

This reporting about the terrorist attack in Vienna –
“Authorities now reportedly believe there was only one gunman, Kujtim Fejzulai. He is a 20-year-old Islamic extremist — a dual citizen of Austria and North Macedonia (formerly known as Macedonia). He was convicted in Austria for attempting to join up with ISIS in Syria.

The gunman was sentenced to 22 months in prison in April 2019. However, he was granted early release in December “under juvenile law” after serving only eight months.”

So not a white supremacist or a neo-Nazi then?
Apparently his lawyer got him off early from his prison sentence for previous crimes. Just a young fellow searching for his place in society who went to the wrong mosque, associated with the wrong crowd.

So what you have is a mixture of a radical Islamic terrorist and a soft justice system allowing a killer to get out of jail early and kill again.

Now are all Muslims terrorists? Of course not.
But right now are all terrorists Muslim? At least 95% of them are. That’s just a fact.

Should we be inviting more Muslims into this country as refugees?

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/11/vienna-gunman-a-convicted-terrorist-released-after-eight-months-in-prison.php
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November 4, 2020 8:04am
- mark15
  
  Looks like dpf owes DG a beer!
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:24am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Are all Australians terrorists? Of course not.
  
  But right now in NZ are all terrorists Australian? 100% of them are.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:29am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    You forgot the sentenced Somali hijacker as well as the sentenced teenager in Christchurch. Well, you didn’t forget methinks, it just suited you to not mention them.
    
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    November 4, 2020 8:44am
  - cmm
    
    No, not true.
    
    Golfer guy in Christchurch is an Islamic terrorist, but was thwarted and given golf lessons instead.
    
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    November 4, 2020 8:49am
    - Lance
      
      That showed him, golf lessons.
      An example to drive fear into others wishing to emulate his intentions.
      
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      November 4, 2020 10:09am
      - C J Southern
        
        Well it started as a drive – but then he drove a wedge – before it finally putted out …
        
        #LittleGolfingHumour
        
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        November 4, 2020 10:27am
      - Jack5
        
        Scott asked: “Should we be inviting more Muslims into this country as refugees?”
        
        Perhaps we should give a turn to the non-Muslim refugees of the Middle East, especially Christians. They are all but being wiped out. Same with Christians of Burma/Myanmar; yet we will be bringing in Muslim refugees from that country.
        
        https://nzcatholic.org.nz/2017/03/20/iraqs-christian-refugees-face-double-discrimination/
        
        Then there are the brutally persecuted Christians of Pakistan, while we bring in Muslim Pakistanis:
        
        https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/10/pakistani-christians-persecuted-us-should-provide-asylum/
        
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        November 4, 2020 11:53am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    There are currently 20 terrorist entities designated under New Zealand law, including this offender.
    
    https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2009/S00005/march-15-offender-designated-as-terrorist-entity.htm
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:14am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Actually you are wrong.
    Terrorists who kill, sure. But terrorists? No.
    We have Islamic terrorists who were caught early and even the Urewera 4 who were let off due to incorrect procedure etc.
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:34am
- Ruawai
  
  No, we get to choose who comes here to live and we may as well rule out a group that has terrorists, there are plenty more refugees who need help.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:32am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    What? We don’t “get to choose who comes here to live” in any real sense. That decision was unilaterally made for us years ago. I don’t recall any politician asking any electorate their views on the matter.
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:09am
    - Tall Man
      
      But “what’s in it for wynston” promised……..
      
      6 2
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      November 4, 2020 9:28am
- MCos
  
  Twenty to thirty thousand Rohingya have been killed by the Myanmar Army.
  Who knows how many have been killed by ISIS, including yesterday in Kabul.
  What’s going on with the Uighur in China?
  Various African countries.
  Which of these are considered terrorism?
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:41am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    All of them. Was that ever in question?
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:47am
    - fernglas
      
      The Rohingya and Uighur problems are more properly considered as genocide, because they have been carried out by the State rather than by people trying to change the State.
      
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      November 4, 2020 11:35am
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Yes. Genocide is what we get when the State employs all the terrorists.
        
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        November 4, 2020 12:00pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  It was two Turkish Martial Arts experts that rescued several people and reported the gunman to the police.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:52am
- mikenmildagain
  
  But right now are all terrorists Muslim? At least 95% of them are. That’s just a fact.
  
  Citation required, including a definition of terrorism.
  
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  November 4, 2020 9:22am
  - Jimmy White
    
    Mike Your Citation please and make sure you include ‘State’ terrorism in your citation (i.e China)
    
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    November 4, 2020 10:09am
Justitia

Cancel Culture is well underway in New Zealand this morning as Mighty Ape pulls Olivia Pearson’s outstanding book “Western Values Defended: A Primer” from its shelves: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/author-olivia-pierson-labels-nanaia-mahutas-moko-ugly-uncivilised-mighty-ape-pulls-books/WW6GEQON7BK4HADJW43Z3FPMEE/.

Ms Pearson questioned the appropriateness of a Foreign Minister sporting a moko which she considers ugly and uncivilised, as many may well do. The Woke are outraged and baying for blood, as is their custom. Please support Olivia Pearson by ordering her book from other outlets such as Amazon or Fishpond. Defend Free Speech.
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November 4, 2020 8:09am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  “Western Values Defended: A Primer”
  
  Poor little white girl.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:31am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    I assume you are white/Western Martin? We’re all in this together, Marty. They don’t care how woke you profess to be. I know you and many other normies don’t see yourselves as a target, but that is just another error on your part.
    
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    November 4, 2020 8:49am
    - Batman
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Frankly I’m more worried about yahoos with access to firearms and a delusion that we’re all being replaced
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:06am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Just look out your window or take a walk down your main street. Then observe the express or implied anti-all-things Western sentiment in much of the public discourse. Then do the maths.
        
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        November 4, 2020 9:11am
      - Batman
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Whatever you believe mate. Just make sure to take a deep breath and don’t let yourself get so wound up that you fall down the rabbit hole that others have, finding yourself standing outside a building with a gun.
        
        That’s where the replacement theory ends up and it’s never good.
        
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        November 4, 2020 9:13am
      - Tall Man
        
        What a truly ridiculous thing to say.
        
        Assuming tarrant was a yahoo he is one of almost 26 million Australians but hey, you focus on the infintessimal possibilities while the rest of us actually get on with enjoying life in the real world.
        
        You could list the trouble throughout the world caused by said “yahoos” on the back of a postage stamp whereas real terrorism fills an encyclopedia.
        
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        November 4, 2020 9:33am
      - mark15
        
        There won’t be another one of those for awhile.The first one worked.
        
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        November 4, 2020 12:02pm
  - cmm
    
    It’s those Western Values that support the existence of most of the world’s population.
    
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    November 4, 2020 8:51am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Western values are unique to westerners, who are a global minority of something like around 10%, and declining further as mass migration dilutes the populations. With a few exceptions, the West is and always has been the only real shining light of civilisation on this planet. Imported barbarism will replace it, as the very factors that attract will be wiped away.
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:01am
      - Batman
        
        You obviously have little faith in western institutions and governance. Sad.
        
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        November 4, 2020 9:08am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        I don’t have much faith that the people tasked with perpetuating those institutions have their hearts and minds in it, frankly. If they don’t care, they will crumble, to be replaced with … what, I’m not sure, but it will be inferior.
        
        What are “western institutions and governance”? They aren’t just abstractions, they depend wholly on the people who constitute them. Those people need to buy into them. A nation isn’t simply an idea, independent of it’s constituents (as we often hear in regard to America), it is people’s homes and the people themselves. If radically different people gain sway, it will become a radically different nation. I think many people believe they can have their diversity cake and eat it. They cannot.
        
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        November 4, 2020 9:21am
      - Tall Man
        
        When we have a pm that dons a symbol of oppression at every opportunity I think we do have legitimate concerns regarding our governance.
        
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        November 4, 2020 9:35am
  - Cobolt24
    
    Maybe they need defense when the universities are biased heavily against it.
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:25am
- Ruawai
  
  Cancel culture is a new woke name for book burning and denial of free speech.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:33am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Technically, the trend is denial of free speech only for white people.
    
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    November 4, 2020 8:51am
  - artemisia
    
    ‘Cancel culture’ is a useful descriptive term that gathers together several activities under a new umbrella. Terms like boycott and free speech have sort of lost their punch.
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:25am
  - The Housekeeper
    
    We need a real constitution. It’s ridiculous that NZ citizens, supposedly world leaders in human rights, have never agreed on an inviolable set of rules that apply to all. Why we waste money with unnecessary hate speech laws when Any claimed human rights remain violable is anyone’s guess.
    
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    November 4, 2020 11:25am
- MCos
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  So who exactly is against freedom of speech?
  * Mighty Ape because they won’t stock Olivia Pearson’s book?
  * Olivia Pearson because she doesn’t think Nanaia Mahuta should speak for NZ because she has a moko.
  * You because you want to dictate which books Mighty Ape must sell i.e. every book that you like.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:53am
  - Batman
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    I wondered how long this would take to reach KB… My prediction of a day or so was bang on!
    
    I’ve heard that Pierson might not be a real woman. It apparently could actually be the guy who runs the LibertariaNZ
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:04am
    - David George
      
      You’ve heard wrong. The person you’re refering to is Lindsay Perigo. He looks nothing like Olivia.
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:15am
  - David George
    
    Mighty Ape – obviously. Opinion on Nanaia’s tats is just that, an opinion, an idea. She’s not actively censoring any one much less canceling a book that has nothing to do with N’s tats.
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:14am
  - Tall Man
    
    Or concern that a virtually non visible mp who has been silent on all matters publically since becoming an mp is elevated to a position so obviously outside her comfort level and expertise but I suppose ardern sees herself as the “true” representative so mahuta is really just a “virtual signal” and we all know it.
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:39am
    - alex Masterley
      
      My only concern about Ms Mahuta is whether or not she is competent. On the evidence so far that question is not being answered in the positive.
      
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      November 4, 2020 11:11am
      - Nickc2
        
        As someone suggested on this blog yesterday, she is only there because Cindy needed more so-called Maoris in her cabinet in order to quell the onslaught of Maori demands for ownership of water, atmosphere, and anything else they can get their hands on.
        Cindy assumes that Mahuta allegedly having some seniority (assumed or otherwise) among Maoris may help her delay the demands. IMO, Cindy would rather these demands occurred with a National party, hence the delaying tactic.
        
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        November 4, 2020 1:05pm
      - Paulus
        
        Therefore she could be in line for the role of the next Prime Minister !
        
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        November 4, 2020 1:27pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Agreed. Judge not the performer but the performance.
        
        Having just said that considering that she’s a Labour politician it’s a pretty safe assumption that she will tow the Labour party line; THAT’s the problem.
        
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        November 4, 2020 5:03pm
    - oob
      
      Exactly, Tall Man.
      
      Cindy intends to be front-and-centre on the international stage. The scribble-face is purely background decoration to demonstrate Cindy’s woke credentials.
      
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      November 4, 2020 11:30am
      - marcw
        
        That’s not going to work out well. What does Ardern know about the world affairs beyond the Sth. Pacific? Australians already have her summed up as ignorable, her own attitude to the USA has been noted, and I doubt any European leaders are interested in what she has to say seeing as they have their own problems to solve. To be fair, I don’t know what Ardern knows about Zimbabwe, Venezuela or Argentina, but I’m sure we will soon be sharing experiences of poverty with those failed states. Now that the Labor Party in the UK has new leadership and Corbyn has gone, they will not be interested in a Princess from the antipodes lecturing them either. So, a Minister who has never achieved anything, a PM without any foreign policy credentials – seems legit that success is imminent. /s
        
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        November 4, 2020 12:09pm
- raven
  
  Or order via bookdepository.com
  
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  November 4, 2020 9:09am
  - artemisia
    
    Once people have an account there are multiple 10% discount offers each year. Could try entering code NZ10 until 15 November but might not work because it’s a click through from their email.
    
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    November 4, 2020 10:25am
- Ruahine
  
  Probably the book is not selling well for them. Their prices are exorbitant IMHO. Good book though. Well worth a read.
  
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  November 4, 2020 9:19am
- Observer of Life
  
  Just: Purchased with pleasure (from Book Depository). Freedom to speak your mind is to be encouraged.
  
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  November 4, 2020 9:41am
Maggie Pie

The Donald introduces “….one of the worlds biggest Superstars – LIL PIMP!”

Who he?

https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1323686386138935296
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November 4, 2020 8:10am
Tony Stuart

Whoever wins the US presidential election, I hope that both major parties have a good look at the candidates they offer up to the voters.

Surely, in a country of close to 400 million people, it’s possible to find less flawed and more capable candidates for President than Donald Trump, Hilary Clinton or Joe Biden.
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November 4, 2020 8:12am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Yeah, but they also need to actually want the job.
  
  Does anybody here think that they and their families would be able to bear the relentless intrusion into, and misrepresentation of, their private lives and personal history that today’s public figures endure? And that nothing would be found, even by the most malicious and dishonest of journalists, that you’d mind being plastered across the media, and dug up again anytime you said anything out of line with Andrea’s, or Tucker’s, or Tova’s approved dogma?
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:21am
- Tall Man
  
  Maybe not. I think the world is a tad flawed at the moment.
  
  I mean look here in NZ. We have a party, greens, exposed just before the election as corrupt with zero principles and they increase their position in the house. Seriously, on what planet inhabited by rational people would that happen?
  
  So I believe our candidates are a reflection of our citizens and it would seem we are getting exactly what we deserve.
  
  I applaud you for trying to fight the good fight but I think you have to accept that you are in the minority now and venal self interest is now the way to go and lie your way to the top by promising the unachievable safe in the knowledge that over 50% are too fucking dumb to remember those promises.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:30am
  - Sacha
    
    I agree Tall Man.
    We have the government that the majority of voters chose. Said voters will come to live the reality of their choice in years to come.
    I hope they will be pleased. when they reach retirement age and realise that life doesn’t seem as good for them as it was for their parents.
    
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    November 4, 2020 11:17am
    - Nickc2
      
      I agree Sacha. IMO, the majority of people who voted for a Labour/Green government have little or no knowledge what Socialism/Communism is all about and anything they do know has been imparted through school teachers/MSM/university lecturers through rose-tinted spectacles.
      
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      November 4, 2020 12:41pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  I agree. The electoral college is not the problem. The problem is the process the major parties use to select their candidate. It should not be that hard to come up with one decent, competent, and electable candidate.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:35am
  - MCos
    
    You could say the same about our, or pretty much any similar system.
    At the polling booth, whilst we have a choice of parties, we have little say in who the party selects to fly the flag on the party’s behalf.
    So, for example, if you are a Nat fan in Ilam & don’t like Gerry anymore you’re left in a vacuum.
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:06am
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      I’m not suggesting the public should have more say. In fact they should have less. When Labour went through their similarly convoluted leadership selection process involving all sorts of stakeholders, Andrew Little ended up winning. It was only because the caucus used a loophole to replace him with their choice that they got a candidate who could win.
      
      Americans would do better to just shut their party’s congressmen in a room and tell them to come out when they’ve selected a presidential candidate.
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:58am
- Simon
  
  Trump kept his promises. Is this the flaw you speak of?
  
  In NZ the leader of Labour or National’s job is to outwit the other. Thats it. Nothing else matters.
  
  Ardern outwit the series of cretins that National has put up. National outwitted by Twyford, Jackson etc.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:46am
  - lifesgood
    
    National outwitted by cretins. You have to laugh or you’d cry.
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:26am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      Many here will be old enough to remember the US Tylenol extortion racket of 1982. Up till then, no-one had considered the possibility of random poisoning to make money. Now we have tamper-proof packaging. Thanks, subset of Chicagoans who were murderous.
      
      Many here will also be old enough to remember stowing your suitcase (without wheels) on a luggage cart, getting your passport stamped, and walking out on the tarmac without being groped first. Then came the PLO and Leila K (there had been aircraft hijacked before but none purely in the name of terror politics; before that almost all (since the first hijacking in 1931) had a definite and time-related goal. Thanks, subset of Palestinians who were murderous.
      
      My point is that it’s not something to be ashamed of that normal people cannot, often until it is too late, conceive of the depths of personal and mass manipulation and smiling willingness to vote for and even individually commit atrocities, which the really pathological excel in.
      
      Recruiting children for suicide bombings?
      
      Flying airliners full of civilians into office towers?
      
      Sending kids out to clear minefields?
      
      Gassing your own population?
      
      Those are not our failures in prediction, those are their failures in humanity.
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:57am
- Flossie
  
  Close to 400 million is a bit of an exaggeration. The census last year gives the result as 328 point something million so you are out by around 20%.
  Having said that, cannot argue that the candidates on offer are an appalling choice
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:50am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Lee Iacocca turned down the offer to run for POTUS saying he couldn’t afford the salary drop.
  
  If every person in the USA donated $1 per year to pay the President’s salary the $330M would attract the very best. Pay 1/4 annually and 3/4 based on performance approval.
  
  Maybe the same could be said for NZ.
  
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  November 4, 2020 9:05am
- Random T Person
  
  All those people are nothing more than media creations anyway, Tony. At least for the vast majority of us lookers-on.
  
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  November 4, 2020 11:33am
krazykiwi

I’ve opened a browser tab on this: US Election Result Map. If others have better results/analysis pages perhaps post them below.
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November 4, 2020 8:12am
- kowtow
  
  I wouldn’t support The Guardian , use the Fox News one.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:58am
- graham
  
  Thanks kk, I will keep a tab open throughout the day also.
  
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  November 4, 2020 9:03am
Tauhei Notts

I have enjoyed the writings of Olivia Pierson and wonder whether this comment will pass the Moderator here.
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November 4, 2020 8:16am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  I’ve given polite feedback to Mighty Ape that I will take my custom elsewhere, and why. I doubt I will be the only one. There will likely not be enough of us to make a big financial impact, but, it’s what I can do. And far less woke alternatives exist.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:47am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I will do likewise. I’ve never purchased from them, but over the weekend went looking for three books and was today going to order all three from Mighty Ape. Fishpond, it’s your lucky day.
    
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    November 4, 2020 9:10am
    - Tall Man
      
      Also check Trademe. Bought a few from onsellers there recently.
      
      11 1
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      November 4, 2020 9:21am
    - Observer of Life
      
      KK: Book Depository is pretty damned good too. Free delivery worldwide. Delivery isn’t as quick as it once was, but prices are reasonable and with free delivery….
      
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      November 4, 2020 9:45am
iMP

PATRICK GOWER in America…
“Biden could win, Trump could win, anything could happen…”

(the dopey political editor over excited about Chloe, who said there had never been a Third Party MP win a seat without a coat tail; there had been heaps, starting with Soc. Credit like centuries ago)…
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November 4, 2020 8:17am
- KiwiSapper
  
  I heard and saw the grinning [del. mod.] on TV 3 this morning say that American voters voters were totally for Trump or Biden with no undecided. Then he went on to say, ” but it has always been this way,” then finished off with, ” but this is different.”
  ?
  Mindless yammering…….long may he stay in away . But, I do expect him to pay for and spend two weeks in a Government isolation unit when he returns to NZ, no exemptions!
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:34am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I’m sure we’ll be paying the TameTax on his gibbering return, so he won’t have to jabberwock remotely on a Zoom. Plus, no-one sane wants to risk Toobinism.
    
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    November 4, 2020 8:48am
  - C J Southern
    
    He’s coming back? Bugger.
    
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    November 4, 2020 5:08pm
iMP

America 2024…

Don Trump Jr./Candice Owens.

Unbeatable.
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November 4, 2020 8:19am
- MCos
  
  You can’t be serious.
  I don’t care for his dad, but at least he has a certain way about him.
  Whenever Junior open his mouth he sounds like a fool.
  
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  November 4, 2020 9:11am
- Observer of Life
  
  Now that would be a winner. Candace Owens is a very impressive woman.
  
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  November 4, 2020 9:47am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Candace Owens:
    
    Globalism is what I don’t want, so when you think about whenever we say nationalism, the first thing people think about, at least in America, is Hitler. He was a national socialist. But if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, okay, fine. The problem is that he wanted, he had dreams outside of Germany. He wanted to globalize. He wanted everybody to be German, everybody to be speaking German. Everybody to look a different way. To me, that’s not nationalism. In thinking about how we could go bad down the line, I don’t really have an issue with nationalism. I really don’t. I think that it’s okay.
    
    Very impressive…
    
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    November 4, 2020 10:49am
  - Sacha
    
    .. . . . . . and too intelligent to give the idea more than 10 seconds consideration.
    I think Candace Owens is a great gal.
    
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    November 4, 2020 11:22am
Maggy Wassilieff

RNZ interview with Dr Elizabeth Kerekere, new Green MP.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/first-up/audio/2018771226/new-mps-dr-elizabeth-kerekere-green-list-mp

It’s not about what the Green Party’s gonna do, what Labour’s gonna do, it’s what the Maori in Parliament are gonna do.

No mention of Environment, nature, sustainability…..
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November 4, 2020 8:21am
- krazykiwi
  
  I just wish the Greens were gonna. Pity.
  
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  November 4, 2020 8:23am
I remember when

Today is the day.
Will today be the day when coronavirus is eliminated in the USA.
Will all division and disharmony be banished.
Will black, white and hispanic be melded together never to be spilt asunder.
We know tonight?
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November 4, 2020 8:33am
- RJ
  
  Today is the day to own a company that makes bricks.
  
  https://twitter.com/reviah1/status/1323690849356730368
  
  7 2
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  November 4, 2020 8:54am
  - Batman
    
    Or Ford F1/250s, AR-15s, or custom flag makers
    
    6 13
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    November 4, 2020 9:02am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Yes, all funded by George Soros. The police should impound them immediately.
    
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    November 4, 2020 12:19pm
I remember when

Does the Dr Elizabeth Kerekere interview explain some of the bold Cabinet decisions Jacinda made?
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November 4, 2020 8:35am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I’m not sure..
  but I am looking forward to Waitangi Day to see how our Prime Minister, our Foreign Affairs Minister and fellow Wãhine Ministers are treated on the paepae.
  
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  November 4, 2020 9:24am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I predict an absence of ballistic sex toys. I also predict a giant ethnic love-fest sprinkled with anti-colonial hate-nuggets.
    
    10 2
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    November 4, 2020 11:06am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      But will the PM and other women be restricted to the verandah again for their speeches?
      
      5 2
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      November 4, 2020 12:19pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        I’m going to say no they won’t be thusly segregated. They’ll get the chiefy-equivalent of a papal dispensation to be allowed to sit at the front of the bus and use the chiefy drinking-fountain because they racist’d up Parliament.
        
        4 2
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        November 4, 2020 1:12pm
Maggie Pie

Is KDC likely to get a more ‘sympathetic ear’ from Kris than he might have got from Angry?

https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/1321974263100760064
12 4
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November 4, 2020 8:37am
Nigel Kearney

Poor as our government may be, remember there is always somewhere even worse:

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/defence-watch/canadian-military-to-establish-new-organization-to-use-propaganda-other-techniques-to-influence-canadians
10 2
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November 4, 2020 8:50am
- Observer of Life
  
  Nige: Now that is scary.
  
  6 1
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  November 4, 2020 10:33am
RJ

A little something different, remote viewer dick all give remote views the election results

Drawing
https://imgur.com/a/slY4vMe

Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJZ2PxQ0Tz0
2 3
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November 4, 2020 9:15am
Maggie Pie

TWITTER TRENDING….

Wonder what Jack Ma’s done to piss off President Xi then?

https://twitter.com/TechCrunch/status/1323703994364186626

Whatever is was – just cost him $60B 🙁
10 4
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November 4, 2020 9:28am
- Tall Man
  
  Manipulation. Buy Alibaba now 😉
  
  10 1
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  November 4, 2020 9:41am
Critical Thinker

Joe “Dementia” Biden just introduced his granddaughter to a crowd by saying
“This is my son, Beau Biden.” … “This is my granddaughter, Natalie. No wait, no wait. We got the wrong one…”
https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1323725227487100928

….. ?
16 2
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November 4, 2020 9:45am
- softail 1450
  
  Critical Thinker ,,,,So the left either think Joey can raise the dead or 75 million of them will be suffering buyers remorse in a few hours.
  
  12 2
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  November 4, 2020 9:57am
- Observer of Life
  
  I feel saddened and sick at how Biden’s family and those in control of his campaign allow him to continue. It is embarrassing and to me elder abuse. Let the man retire to a home for the bewildered.
  
  12 1
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  November 4, 2020 10:37am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  fuck me.
  
  “this is my son Beau Biden who you elected to the senate in …”
  
  OMG
  
  He really said that, while introducing a female relative.
  
  I now believe the dementia arguments, my FIL has forgotten who in the family is alive or who is married to who, or who the grandkids are.
  
  Its very sad, he then gets angry and confused and tries to skate over it – exactly the same behaviour Biden is demonstrating.
  
  God help us if this person wins today.
  
  11 1
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  November 4, 2020 11:36am
softail 1450

Oh Dear, a certain Cabinet Ministers partner has just had his name suppression lifted for Assaulting a Female,,damn……
17 3
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November 4, 2020 9:49am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  If you are referring to Nanaia Mahuta’s partner, then his name, assault conviction, and withdrawn charges have been in the public domain since December 2003.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/mps-partner-hit-woman/S7GUU75RJU5WIKB766LOOUBLFI/
  
  15 0
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  November 4, 2020 10:08am
- marcw
  
  MSM is silent on this … can you elaborate?
  
  14 1
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  November 4, 2020 10:09am
I remember when

“What is Fonterra getting right or wrong on sustainability, according to Fonterra” Alex Brae.
Article includes “Again, carbon reduction is cool, but cows burp out methane. What is happening there?”
No mention made of the rather obscure nature of NZ agricultural methane numbers.
University of Rochester 19/2/20.
“Methane emitted by humans vastly underestimated”
Methane emissions to the atmosphere have increased by approx 150% over past three centuries.
It is difficult for researchers to determine exactly where these emissions originate. Methane can be emitted naturally, as well as from human activity.
Scientists can accurately quantify the total methane emitted each year, but it is difficult for scientists to pin down how much methane humans are emitting.
They suggest scientists have been vastly underestimating the amount humans are emitting from fossil fuels.
However, this result is reached by measuring increases against atmospheric methane levels prior to human fossil fuel use.
The presumption is that the difference must be for that reason.
3 2
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November 4, 2020 9:50am
- cmm
  
  “Methane emissions to the atmosphere have increased by approx 150% over past three centuries.”
  
  How would they know that? Nobody was measuring methane 100 years ago, let alone 300 years.
  
  BTW: We’ve been using fossil fuel for at least 1000 years.
  
  10 2
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  November 4, 2020 10:40am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Yeah, it’s impossible to study historical atmospheric composition.
    /s
    
    1 6
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    November 4, 2020 10:53am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    They measure the methane content of ancient air, found in bubbles trapped in ice
    
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/02/200219113746.htm
    
    3 0
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    November 4, 2020 11:19am
    - cmm
      
      Studying bubbles in ice is not without its problems:
      1) Ice is not a hermetic seal. Gases can migrate through ice. Different gases migrate differently.
      2) The methane levels where there is snow falling (which gets compacted into ice with trapped bubbles) does not fall in areas where most of the methane is being produced (warmer rain forests etc with active microbiology). Thus, methane levels captured by ice differ.
      
      7 2
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      November 4, 2020 12:43pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Thank you, that is educational. Appreciated.
        
        4 1
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        November 4, 2020 1:14pm
      - Albert_Ross
        
        Are you suggesting that the climate scientists carrying out these studies might not have thought of that?
        
        5 1
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        November 4, 2020 1:15pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Albert – are you suggesting that all climate scientists are equally invested in the truth?
        
        Further, if I may be permitted to link this – gots your half a century of failed climate predications right ‘ere.
        
        https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-years-failed-eco-pocalyptic-predictions
        
        9 0
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        November 4, 2020 2:11pm
      - cmm
        
        Albert: Have they thought of that? Yes, probably.
        
        But:
        1) If they have thought of that then they need to make models to correct for it. Making those models is a huge challenge because you need massive assumptions (without data) to make them.
        2) THey need to be motivated to do so. Many climate scientists are activists bent on fudging the numbers.
        
        Methane is a very difficult gas to model in the atmosphere effectively (CO2 is much easier). Why: because methane is so light and unstable while CO2 is so heavy and stable.
        
        CH4 is way lighter than air which means it tends to migrate quickly to the upper atmosphere. CO2 is heavier so it sits closer to ground level. That means only a small proportion of CH4 will migrate effectively from tropical regions to ice regions.
        
        CO2 is also very inert (does not break down) which is why it is used in fire extinguishers. CH4 breaks down relatively quickly – especially in the upper atmosphere with increased UV levels.
        
        So CO2 is way easier to measure over time than CH4.
        
        6 2
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        November 4, 2020 3:12pm
- rangitoto
  
  Major methane emission from agriculture would be from rice production. Save the planet by eating beef instead of rice.
  
  6 1
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  November 4, 2020 10:58am
  - cmm
    
    But, but but… that rice paddies replaces other wetlands which would produce methane anyway.
    
    And of course the same applies for beef: bison roaming the USA and gazelles in Africa are somehow good, but cows and sheep are bad.
    
    5 2
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    November 4, 2020 12:45pm
Maggie Pie

“RIGHT”
– Fred
7 4
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November 4, 2020 10:15am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I’m too sexy for my shirt.
  
  3 9
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  November 4, 2020 10:54am
Tall Man

How can this be…..

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/11/immigration-labour-manifesto-signals-significant-changes-to-border-visa-rules-to-get-more-people-in.html

Didn’t labour promise less immigration in 2017?

Easier to bring parents into NZ and reduced income levels. Awesome, let’s expand the welfare system when we’re borrowing $125,000,000 per day.
14 2
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November 4, 2020 10:31am
- RJ
  
  Silly tall man, you have to remember labour live in the upside world, they do the opposite of what they promise.
  
  7 2
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  November 4, 2020 1:04pm
  - C J Southern
    
    That IS scary considering they often promise non-sensical things.
    
    Heaven forbid they get a double opposite and end up accidentally getting something right.
    
    3 0
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    November 4, 2020 5:16pm
    - sooty
      
      Who is paying for the quarantine!
      
      1 0
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      November 4, 2020 6:14pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The Hon Carmel Sepuloni will have her work cut out…
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/123290782/record-jump-in-nz-unemployment-rate-to-53-per-cent-as-kiwis-look-for-work
16 1
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November 4, 2020 11:15am
Maggy Wassilieff

Looks like it’s our own fault if we catch Covid-19…
Nothing to do with slack procedures at borders or inadequate equipment for Quarantine nurses.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/11/covid-19-bloomfield-says-heightened-restrictions-over-christmas-possible-if-kiwis-don-t-up-their-game.html
15 1
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November 4, 2020 11:25am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Only 1 more lockdown to christmas folks!
  
  Enjoy! Remember that the MIQ system is good enough for government!
  
  9 2
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  November 4, 2020 11:38am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  “Our mask was too small so we were asking for it.”
  
  5 2
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  November 4, 2020 11:40am
- sooty
  
  Lockdown!
  
  3 1
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  November 4, 2020 11:47am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Public Transport has a lot to answer for in the spread of Covid. Was stopped at the lights in Remuera earlier and a bus pulled up right alongside. Looking up out of the sunroof, I could see that not one of the plebs onboard was wearing a facemask 🙁
  
  10 4
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  November 4, 2020 11:53am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Everyone must from now on ride only motorcycles* (*and only those with effectively no pillion capability. Say, a ‘Busa or Harley’s new EV-LiveWire) with a full face helmet and gloves.
    
    4 Wheels Bad, 2 Wheels Good!
    
    – automatic masking with helmet
    – automatic distancing via handlebars
    – fast air flow outside of helmet
    – cannot infect others even when singing or shouting
    – cannot touch eyes, nose, mouth
    etc.
    
    Mahuta First! Show them doubting foreigners how We Keep Moving!
    
    10 2
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    November 4, 2020 12:08pm
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      No, your Batmobile will not be exempt, BatTick.
      
      7 2
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      November 4, 2020 12:14pm
  - RJ
    
    You stopped at the lights with a public bus beside you? I hope you went home and washed the car
    
    5 3
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    November 4, 2020 1:02pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Didn’t go to that extent. But immediately closed the roof 😀
      
      4 3
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      November 4, 2020 1:48pm
ex-golfer

Hang on – I thought the Peoples Princess, saviour of all, the Omnipotent and great Jacinda Ardern handled everything perfectly?
This 60 mins story says she presided over a poor response:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nGnXthjVgc

No NZ media interested in picking it up?
I guess it might put their $50m + $75m bribes at risk.
16 1
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November 4, 2020 11:46am
- Tall Man
  
  Look at the number of times the St John’s medical director closes his eyes when speaking.
  
  Plus, Sir John Key bad for doing nothing at Pike River, ardern good for doing nothing at White Island……..
  
  11 1
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  November 4, 2020 2:20pm
  - C J Southern
    
    Interesting that Labour spent millions at Pike River to “give the families closure”. And now – a couple of years and some $50M of our money later (a) no body recovery and (b) saying that they never guaranteed recovery of the deceased”. Apparently it’s was always mostly about “gathering evidence” – even though the Royal Commission of Inquiry spent 2 years working out what happened (methane explosion) – why it happened (primarily poor ventilation system design) and who was responsible (a whole bunch of people including management, miners, and government officials).
    
    And yet despite achieving no more than National did – for $50M that would have bought a lot of drugs, operating theatres, operation funding, ambulances, MRI & CT scanners – families think Labour are wonderful.
    
    Go figure.
    
    11 0
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    November 4, 2020 5:26pm
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      Half of all voters are less informed than average.
      
      And this time around, a further third were skeered out of their britches by the Deadly Virus as seen daily on the Hard’n’Ashfaced show.
      
      7 0
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      November 4, 2020 5:36pm
      - sooty
        
        Is this why angry was shafted?
        He wasted 50mil that could have built houses, looked after the sick, etc, etc!
        Was cindy pissed with him!
        
        7 0
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        November 4, 2020 6:11pm
ex-golfer

Time to dust off the orange jumpsuit:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123270837/supreme-court-rules-kim-dotcom-can-be-extradited–subject-to-a-judicial-review
11 1
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November 4, 2020 11:50am
- septic skeptic
  
  Didn’t you read it through? The lawyers haven’t fini3shed milking this yet. Two more visits to the Supreme Court and a ministerial review still to happen. Should be good for at least another five years.
  
  15 0
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  November 4, 2020 12:01pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Yes, my partner reckons the Justice Minister needs to step in now and put an end to this madness.
    KDC has already spent in excess of $40 million on legal fees alone! Dotty really loves his cars and used to be a plum client in the early days.
    
    8 4
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    November 4, 2020 1:03pm
  - C J Southern
    
    It ain’t over until the fat lady sings – but at least we’re now at the audition stage.
    
    5 0
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    November 4, 2020 5:29pm
    - sooty
      
      Someone would be making money out of strengthening the suspension on all his vehicles on the side he sits in, otherwise it would look stupld going down the road lopsided!
      
      3 0
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      November 4, 2020 6:07pm
- RJ
  
  It will be a loss to the country if he removed, the fast food industry in his town could collapse.
  
  8 0
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  November 4, 2020 12:58pm
Jack5

A capital gains tax will be back on Labour’s agenda to deflate the housing bubble if this report is correct – that it is investors who are driving the market:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/429843/investors-snapping-up-homes-first-home-buyers-struggling-in-hyped-up-market
6 2
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November 4, 2020 2:46pm

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