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October 31, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 31 October 2021

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General Debate

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Suze Wainwright

Deadly Delta’s secret spreading now. Can a virus be so underhanded in seeking out the unclean unvaccinated?
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October 31, 2021 8:06am
- ABS4EVA
  
  Labour Party Lab Rat
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:55am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Suze If you value your health along with democracy and good governance your fear should not be Covid it should be the Maori Health Authority (MHA). This body will have a veto on the Non-Maori Health Authority. It will be able to stop funding to this body for any purpose. Funding will be decided on identity politics.
  So if you are a white male of the older generation and you dont have private health insurance you will be denied certain medical procedures.
  
  The MHA Board will be stacked with politicial cronies. They will piss Billions of Dollars up against the wall. Why. They wont be the best and brightest. There will be lots of diversity ( the one leg drawf lesbian Maori) but not the most important diversity………………Diversity of Thought. They will be like the nodding dogs we used to see in the back windows of cars years ago all agreeing with each other.
  The outcome will be that health outcomes for all including Maori will get worse. The MHA Directors will trouser fat fees and other benefits. They and those close to them will get gold plated health treatment.
  Watch and weep because the MHA is only the first of a succession of bodies covering all Government spending.
  
  BTW did you know that Maori Trusts and Maori Corporations dont pay tax. Non-Maori Trusts pay 33% and Corporations 28%. Maori Corporations use their tax advantage to beat Non-Maori in tenders. Indeed now at least 5% of all Government tenders nust be awarded to Maori organisations regardless of whether they tender the lowest price and the best product and service.
  
  Democracy……………………….but not as I know it.
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:53am
  - oldfella
    
    LMS: never fear. The Maori Health Authority is in the very best of hands.
    Mahuta’s hands, to be exact, via her sister, who’s just been appointed to run the MHA.
    But don’t suggest nepotism. Or corruption. They’re such … racist words.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:24am
  - SoloView
    
    lastmanstanding – re “BTW did you know that Maori Trusts and Maori Corporations dont pay tax”
    
    This may help https://www.ird.govt.nz/roles/maori-authorities
    
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    October 31, 2021 11:16am
  - SoloView
    
    lastmanstanding – re “This body will have a veto on the Non-Maori Health Authority. It will be able to stop funding to this body for any purpose.”
    
    The clearest thing I could find on this was –
    There will also be a new Māori Health Authority, sitting alongside that, to both set policies for Māori health and to decide and fund those who will deliver services.
    
    The new Māori Health Authority will “have the power to directly commission health services for Māori”. (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/440903/major-health-sector-shake-up-dhbs-scrapped-and-new-maori-health-authority-announced)
    
    My interpretation is that does not mean control or veto over other spending.
    
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    October 31, 2021 11:29am
    - bronny1
      
      I have also read previous that the MHA will have right of veto over the entire health budget
      
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      October 31, 2021 12:04pm
  - Aquataur
    
    And the next step
    
    Give traditional Maori medicine the same status as Western medicine
    
    Pay traditional Maori practice providers the same subsidy as trained GPs
    
    Subsidise Maori herbs and medicines via Pharmac
    
    And only Maori will be allowed to practice Maori medicine and extract Maori herbal cures, etc
    
    Mark my words, this is where this is heading
    
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    October 31, 2021 12:45pm
    - sooty
      
      Will maori only be allowed to do the haka?
      
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      October 31, 2021 2:31pm
      - Russ the Muss
        
        I hope so.
        
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        October 31, 2021 10:07pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It much prefers those already suckered by its political agents charms or demands.
  
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  October 31, 2021 12:52pm
Chuck Bird

Comrade Ardern will not like this.

Covid 19 Delta outbreak: Lord Ashcroft’s New Zealand poll ‘Living the Kiwi Dream?’ reveals frustration growing

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-lord-ashcrofts-new-zealand-poll-living-the-kiwi-dream-reveals-frustration-growing/RWY2NRHXWFNVNY6DIDK76LFHEM/
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October 31, 2021 8:06am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Long winded puff piece if you ask me.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:20am
  - BananaLlama
    
    I thought so too and had to force myself to read it.
    
    The fact that no one even rebutted Hipkins when he blabbed on about the economy was almost laughable considering we are borrowing 1 billion a week which is completely unsustainable and have inflation going through the roof.
    The Labour voters saying we can rebuild the economy are the icing on the cake, who is the we? do they mean me? and what makes them so sure it can be rebuilt?
    When industry left, it left for good and didn’t come back. When the brain drain took the best and brightest they didn’t come back. What makes them think this time will be any different.
    If there was only a way to get rid of idiots the same.
    So yeah just another Ardern puff piece disguised as a poll.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:38am
- lifesgood
  
  Still far too much praise for our totally incompetent PM.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:29am
  - Fishing in the dark
    
    Are you surprised, media is subsidised by this corrupt Labour Party in a tune of $50 millions
    
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    October 31, 2021 1:45pm
- kowtow
  
  nah , it still goes to great lengths to say she’s a great communicador and her responses to various challenges still admired by so many.
  
  Utter tosh.
  
  She’s a charlatan , the product of a panicked reaction in labour to shit polling , promoded way beyond her very limided abilidies but protected by a fawning and now bought and paid for Media Pardy and huge spin machine.
  
  Now some idiot voters who bought into “hard and early” are suffering the consequences of her lock downs and have buyers remorse , I have no sympathy for them.
  
  They voted for it.
  
  Soon enough mass deaths in old folks homes will be the little boy shouting ” She ain’t got nothing ”
  
  At least I can say , I told ya so.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:39am
- Albert_Ross
  
  I should think she’ll be fine with it. It spends so long going on about how fabulous, and popular, NZ’s initial response was, that she’ll likely have stopped reading and moved on before she gets to the bit where people criticize how it is
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:13am
- emmess
  
  Where are the numbers in the poll?
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:42am
- Aunty
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I thought it was an interesting piece. One clear take home message for me was that all you anti-vaxx, Covid is no worse than the flu, old-lady-screamers, and raving do-your-own-research Dr Google researcher whackjobs is not achieving much cut through with the wider public.
  
  So keep it up, if you want to keep Labour in power. Jacinda salutes and thanks you.
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:57am
  - Cinematic
    
    Try venturing out from under your bed and you’ll find very little compliance. That’s because on balance most people don’t rate this virus as a serious threat. No matter how much, for some bizarre reason, you want them to.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:30am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Yes, I’m sure National will sweep back into power on the basis of frightened old people like “Aunty”. In fact they’ll likely be the ones voting Labour in for a third term, thanks to 80,000 lives saved forth which, ironically, Aunty likely also believes.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:56am
- The Feed
  
  I have no idea why she is spoken of as a “great communicator”, unless waffling word salad misdirection is a great thing.
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:57am
  - septic skeptic
    
    She is pretty hopeless off script. Off the cuff answers are often gibberish and the only purpose is to deflect and buy time.
    
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    October 31, 2021 12:04pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    She does ignorance and deceit well. One could bowl her over with a lawnmower.
    
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    October 31, 2021 12:55pm
Mr_Blobby

Welcome to another day of lockdown Tyranny from the government that cares.
Not big on marching around the streets protesting, but I did watch, online, Saturdays Anti Lockdown Protests on Saturday.
What did our media have to say about it.
The more balanced.
Huge Anti Lockdown Protest.
Anti-Lockdown protesters again descend on Auckland Domain
Thousands of anti-lockdown protesters march down Auckland Streets.
The More Biased
Police to prosecute after Auckland Domain protest.
No arrests after thousands breach lockdown restrictions.
Police will prosecute individuals for protest at Auckland Domain
Overseas.
New Zealand Protesters Rally Against Lockdown

Three protests in 6 weeks, every 2 weeks.
First official figures 1000 others 2000
Second official figures 2000 others 2000 to 5000
Third official figures 5000 others ???
It was attended by the vaccinated and the unvaccinated (unclean infectious)
Why are they protesting.
They are not happy about the segregation and apartheid that is emerging in New Zealand, under the guise of health and safety.
They are not happy about Government mandates that force them to take a medical procedure that they do not agree with, for whatever reason, some are prochoice, some anti-vax, many are not happy that they have been forced to be vaccinated to be able to work.
Police attended, not sure why such a large contingent was required, based on past marches it was never going to be a public disturbance issue requiring Police attention. The Australian Police did not fare so well, when they took a different approach, the ramifications there will go on for some years.
Overseas the World has opened up and returning to normal, they have accepted that Covid is endemic that elimination was never going to work and are learning to live with it, eventually it will die out and something else will come along.
How do they see New Zealand.
One of the World’s most closed-off nations.
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October 31, 2021 8:08am
- Cinematic
  
  You could feel the anger emanating from Stuff that their queens edicts had been ignored by thousands. Amusing if it weren’t such an abdication of their duty to Report the News. … [Deleted].
  
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  October 31, 2021 10:32am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    looking at clips 5000 seems a bit light, I suspect 10,000 to 15,000
    
    Lets say 10,000 there will be another 27 people who sympathize and were not there say 270,000 + 10000 = 280,000 people.
    
    A sizable percentage of the total population of Auckland alone. Say 25% of the population, who are incensed at being forced to do something they do not agree with.
    
    Let alone the numbers at the other lockdown events around the Country.
    
    When 25% of the population do not agree with you, that is significant in a democracy.
    
    Are we going to have segregated voting booths, for the unvaccinated and their supporters.
    
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    October 31, 2021 11:09am
    - Fight4NZ
      
      Is making up numbers to support your own view called “fake news”?
      
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      October 31, 2021 11:57am
      - Mr_Blobby
        
        By all means give us your best guess.
        
        How does 4 people crowded into a phone box on the corner of Kyhber pass and Broadway.
        
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        October 31, 2021 9:16pm
    - bronny1
      
      There were several thousand at the chch event, didn’t see any police except one car fri I got past as we left.
      People I talked to we angry about the mandates, didn’t meet any anti vaxxers though a fair proportion were anti this vax.
      
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      October 31, 2021 12:09pm
    - crackle
      
      I went, didnt try to count this time but can say the crowd went from The Mountain Road Kyhber pass interection all the way to Newmarket Broadway and around the corner so easily a KM long taking up the entirety of one side of the road.
      So pretty safe to say the numbers were well over 5000
      
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      October 31, 2021 12:51pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        I suspect the crowd counter who tells us the number of people at the Farmers Christmas Parade is 200,000 or so being a significant portion of the Auckland populace eight deep both sides for a kilometre or so, was not available giving a less experienced ‘expert’ the opportunity to miscalculate the numbers.
        
        I can tell them exactly how many will be at the Santa Parade this year. None. Not a one.
        
        Vote labour for more shit one can really really live without.
        
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        October 31, 2021 2:13pm
    - sharont
      
      There were Freedom protests all over New Zealand, an estimated 50,000 NZ-wide. 5,000 in Tauranga, Napier, 2,000 in Hamilton, Rotorua, Nelson. Wellington, Palmerston North, Christchurch and Dunedin. Next march is on Parliament 9 November for all in level 2.
      
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      October 31, 2021 1:16pm
  - Diogenes
    
    My son was at a Maori tangi a couple of nights ago. He reports there was almost universal anger among the gatherers over government mandating control over people without first consulting them. Most of them were previously Labour supporters.
    
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    October 31, 2021 1:34pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Frankly I’d rather have all those people performing widespread, passive civil disobedience in which the petty rules are ignored in everyday situations, on the very sound basis that the cops can’t be everywhere (although the informers can be).
    
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    October 31, 2021 7:07pm
    - andydownhere
      
      Suggestion. All Auckland and Waikato businesses just open up. The police cant shut them all down. Film them trying to. Just defy this communist leader.
      
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      October 31, 2021 9:24pm
Yvette

Newshub omission?
Kids under 12 still aren’t eligible for the Pfizer vaccine, but there’s hope they could be soon now that officials in the US have given it the green light.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/coronavirus-michael-baker-fears-wave-of-long-covid-in-young-children-if-school-goes-back-before-they-re-vaccinated.html

The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine against COVID-19 has been authorised by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for emergency use in children aged five to 11, it was announced on Friday (local time).
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2021/10/covid-19-fda-authorises-pfizer-biontech-s-vaccine-for-children-5-to-11-kids-could-begin-receiving-shots-next-week-if-cdc-signs-off.html

So it appears the US Food and Drug Administration approves a Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for emergency use in children aged five to 11, something Newshub does not seem to mention.
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October 31, 2021 8:10am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Emergency Use” isn’t the main point. Every child in the USA will be eligible under emergency use.
  
  The main point is that Michael Baker is on the cheer squad of vaccinating kids under 12.
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:05am
  - emmess
    
    The FDA don’t know how it will work and the test will be to see what happens after the rollout
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MftK8G7jong
    
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    October 31, 2021 9:44am
    - mawm
      
      This is a short video of Dr Peter McCullough, a cardiologist, describing the myocarditis caused by the vaccine and comparing it to that caused by the disease. If you have children you need to watch this before deciding to inoculate them. https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1453396804758917123/pu/vid/720×408/5cB4-OjiJsYAH0qn.mp4?tag=12
      
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      October 31, 2021 10:53am
      - 2ic
        
        Very interesting/frightening. Do you have a link to the wider interview?
        
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        October 31, 2021 11:57am
      - Yvette
        
        perhaps of interest –
        The largest nonprofit health system in Texas has secured a temporary restraining order against cardiologist Peter A. McCullough, MD, MPH, a COVID-19 vaccine skeptic who allegedly continued to claim an affiliation with Baylor Scott & White Health months after he entered into a confidential separation agreement in which he agreed to stop mentioning his prior leadership and academic appointments … [paywalled]
        https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/958916
        
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        October 31, 2021 2:21pm
      - mawm
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AgvHVOo2Hg
        
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        October 31, 2021 6:47pm
      - mawm
        
        Peter McCullough is a highly published cardiologist, researcher and qualified epidemiologist who has many different academic appointments and advisory positions. He has been involved in the management of covid patients from the start and because he has criticised the proscribed management of patients – ie go home and when you turn blue we’ll put you on a ventilator, and come up with therapeutic modalities that work, he has been terminated from his appointment at Baylor. You might not have noticed but this is what is happening to Drs who speak out against what I label as therapy designed to allow patients to die.
        
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        October 31, 2021 6:58pm
  - Cinematic
    
    Baker has lost his mind. Abusing his position by pumping fear into Mums and Dads in NZ. He’s a disgrace.
    
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    October 31, 2021 9:54am
    - sooty
      
      Baker never had a mind of his own,
      His was always for rent!
      
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      October 31, 2021 2:35pm
  - Geoff1
    
    “Michael Baker is on the cheer squad of vaccinating kids under 12”.
    Enough reason to object.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:05am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Michael Baker is a real scared one. He drops his brains to be a sycophantic follower. Reason is dismissed too as dirty as it asks more questions than it answers.
    Baker, academic grade: zero.
    
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    October 31, 2021 12:59pm
  - Warren
    
    What a bunch of hypocrites you people are David Seymour has called for the vaccines on under 12 year olds to start straight away yet not a word from you Act voters , if this had been Judith Collins many here would lamblasting the National Party just like they are with Michael Baker, so why slam one for his comments and not the other .
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/coronavirus-david-seymour-says-govt-should-skip-medsafe-process-and-approve-vaccine-for-kids.html
    
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    October 31, 2021 2:13pm
- Akarak
  
  Are we to assume that when Jacinda announces that all children over 5 can now be vaccinated that the 90% target will be adjusted accordingly?
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:25am
  - Geoff1
    
    If you believe that I have a bridge…..
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:07am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Not sure why you say that. They can’t incorporate under 12s into the eligible population and reach a 90 percent target. I would be surprised if the 5 to 11 age group reached 50 percent.
      
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      October 31, 2021 10:18am
      - cmm
        
        “I would be surprised if the 5 to 11 age group reached 50 percent.”
        
        I wouldn’t.
        
        Remember that nonsense puff-piece about Auntie Helen’s 95-year-old father getting vaccinated for his great grandkids. No, not for his own health – but to protect the wee kiddies. What a kind old man.
        
        Massive numbers of mamma bears feel outraged that their kids can’t be “saved” by getting vaccinated. Don’t they care about our kids? etc etc.
        
        Mamma bears will get their kids vaccinated in a heartbeat.
        
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        October 31, 2021 10:58am
      - septic skeptic
        
        Maybe they intend to mandate Vax for school attendance.
        
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        October 31, 2021 12:08pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What’s the evidence that vaccinating children will not cause them future harm?
    Money seems to be preferred over risk.
    
    Why should NZ follow US practice which seems corrupt? Is our govt on the Biden payroll too?
    
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    October 31, 2021 1:03pm
    - Clownworld
      
      Well there was a coincidental Podesta visiting pre NZ election. Then there was coincidental odd results. The comparison between most popular president ever and Jacinda’s high popularity here is coincidental too.
      
      Almost like NZ and Oz are testing grounds for wokeness snd authoratarianism. The US commentators now predicting their future mandates by NZ and Oz responses.
      
      All coincidences of course.
      
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      October 31, 2021 5:02pm
Bridgenag

No investigative reporting anymore……… sigh

Maybe there are some that have “retired” instead of swearing on the treaty partnership bible for the filthy lucre that might

……or not…… sigh…..
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October 31, 2021 8:12am
- Yvette
  
  Ahamed Samsudeen, Ihumatao, Karel Sroubek, and Kim Dotcom?
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:00am
- Prince
  
  I’m sure Nigel Latta will rediscover his concern about child poverty, homelessness etc when the next National Government is in place.
  Expect to see his face on TVNZ regularly then.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:26pm
Chuck Bird

This is premium but is very anti Ardern.

Heather Du Plessis-Allan: Jacinda Ardern must visit Auckland

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/heather-du-plessis-allan-jacinda-ardern-must-visit-auckland/KEKCNYIN3WOZ3K4PBSMVMKZSKU/
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October 31, 2021 8:13am
- cmm
  
  Clever move by Herald. As the people get more grumpy and want more red pilled content they will probably be more likely to pay for it.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:22am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Another stupid move by the Herald. Nobody in their right mind would pay a penny for the propaganda and drivel emanating from that bought-and-paid-for rag.
    
    They might think they’re attracting sentient readers and extracting some money from them, but I wager another chocolate fish that the anti-Ardern articles are outweighed by Jacinda cheerleaders by at least 20 to 1.
    
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    October 31, 2021 9:07am
    - dcrane
      
      Especially those of us who found out (thanks to a commenter yesterday) that we can get the original text through the View Source option in the browser.
      
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      October 31, 2021 11:50am
  - emmess
    
    I’d hardly call anything the Herald does as red-pilled
    More like a blue-pill with a couple of tiny red dots
    
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    October 31, 2021 9:47am
- dime
  
  what on earth is premium? lol no one use browser extensions nowadays?
  
  I like Heather.
  
  When National were in i didnt like her because i thought she was a leftist hack. turns out she has a crack at anyone. I like that.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:29am
Master Mariner

As you might expect this report piqued my interest.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2021/10/retailers-preparing-for-disaster-christmas-as-import-costs-triple.html

“To keep trade flowing throughout the pandemic, the Government has underwritten an air freight scheme for two years, costing $365m. Importers and exporters are now calling for that same subsidy to be applied to shipping”.

365 million, My best estimate is 1.2 Billion. What would normally be shipped by sea was flown?
And ,
“Transport Minister Michael Wood told Newshub he’s had reassurance from international shipping lines that they’re committed to servicing New Zealand.”

Really? This would make an interesting OIA request. Best estimates are 70+ % reduction in services ( Containers ). NZ exports rely on Container Lines. Min of Transport really has been asleep at the wheel during Pandemic/Endemic.

https://www.transport.govt.nz/area-of-interest/air-transport/government-support-for-the-transport-sector/

From memory , this included Air NZ and 5 Foreign carriers. Basically your tax money supporting Foreign entities. ( Sorry cant find the link).

NZ and Australia really need a “National” line for security and shipping. The money blown on foreign subsidies would of paid for this over and above. But in all honesty it should of been part of a strategic asset regardless.

Hopefully NZ will have this conversation in the near future but in all honesty the the horse has bolted.

Dark clouds on the horizon.
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October 31, 2021 8:13am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  A slow tram to the Airport is what is required.
  
  A bike bridge for the Harbor would help shift a lot of freight, lets have one of those.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:33am
- dime
  
  13 ships YTD from LA to Auckland.
  
  20FCL from china up from $1800 to 8k etc etc
  
  its brutal.
  
  Dime put his prices up for the first time in 10 years.
  
  the high dollar cant offset the freight.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:34am
- Philview
  
  Per Andrea Vance today, Michael Wood was recently introduced at an event as the next leader of the Labour Party. Sounds like candidates are starting to promote themselves. Will Jacinda fight another election?
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:35am
  - sooty
    
    Yep! He would be good another short man with a comb over!
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:46am
- Stu2
  
  Hi
  
  Just had a look at the MoT freight data system
  
  TEU (*) numbers don’t look down a lot at Auckland or Tauranga. I used “05 Port Tables” and “TEU loads and Discharges combined” from the bar above the tables.
  
  (*) (20 foot container=1, 40 foot container==2)
  
  https://www.transport.govt.nz/statistics-and-insights/freight-and-logistics/sheet/figs-containers#element-494
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:39am
  - [email protected]
    
    But there are some bare shelves at Bunnings Whangarei. This indicates some supply problems anyway. There are a few things I have not been able to buy for months.
    
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    October 31, 2021 9:42am
    - jgw739
      
      Sadly, a lot of the empty shelves at Bunnings here in Whakatane are in the timber and sheet goods sections. Made in NZ, so freight not an issue.
      
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      October 31, 2021 11:00am
      - sooty
        
        Yes, but can the factory even open the doors during the lockdown?
        Then there is the question of material supplies in the door to even make something to put out of door!
        
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        October 31, 2021 2:40pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Hi Stu, Check dates reporting stopped?
    As a measure you need to go to individual Ports and financial statements.
    Open and honest?
    As Dime said, Its a blood bath.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:28am
    - Stu2
      
      That table scrolls down to 21Q2 (which is April-June 2021). So it is close to current. They are probably close to reporting 21Q3 now.
      
      Do we still have problems with container ships queued at Auckland, causing longer times between dispatch and unloading?
      
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      October 31, 2021 10:57am
  - rouppe
    
    And I’ve just made enquiries about replacing some kitchen cabinet doors for bog standard melamine cabinetry, and they say the lead time is months
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:45am
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      I just bought a 2400×600 sheet from Bunnings and made my own. They sell tape for the edges too.
      
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      October 31, 2021 11:56am
- Taieri
  
  NZ and Australia really need a “National” line for security and shipping.
  —————-
  
  Not going to happen.
  Current state in NZ:
  2 cement ships
  1 container ship
  2 product tankers
  5 RoPax
  1 very very small bulker
  
  None of them trading overseas. Not a single trans-Tasman vessel left.
  
  Australia is not much better. Just about all the Oz flagged tonnage is confined to Bass Strait with the exception of 2 LNG tankers.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:42am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Australia looking seriously at starting up ANL again.
    Aust National Line. At least they understand the security issue.
    NZ should try and piggyback off it if up and running.
    Aust a lot closer to markets/shipping lines than NZ.
    Do you think 1.2 Bill pissed into the clouds with Airline subsidies could of paid for it?
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:31am
    - Taieri
      
      Australia looking seriously at starting up ANL again.
      ————
      
      So far (July 2021) Barnaby Joyce came out only in favour of reinstating Australian-flagged coastal tanker fleet. As he’s the minister for infrastructure and transport and also a deputy Prime Minister may be something will start happening.But it’s a big may be.
      
      NZ should try and piggyback off it if up and running.
      Aust a lot closer to markets/shipping lines than NZ.
      —————-
      
      This would be logical, but I’m not sure there’s a will on the part of Kiwi decision makers.
      
      Do you think 1.2 Bill pissed into the clouds with Airline subsidies could of paid for it?
      —————-
      
      Some of these subsidies were probably unavoidable. But the bottom line, in my view at least, is that there’s no political will to do anything about not having secure and reliable transport connections with the rest of the world. Not just that. As the imminent closure of the Marsden Point refinery shows there’re simply no concerns at all about the security of fuel supplies in this country. Perhaps Arderns, Shaws and Carrs of this world think that we no longer need petroleum-based products and can run their barrista-based economy on hydrogen, wind or whatever the latest fad is. But as for myself, an anonymous Joe Bloggs, things are not that simple.
      
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      October 31, 2021 11:22am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Your are preaching to the choir. Most Kiwibloggers would have opposed selling the Shipping Corporation in 1989 and the Pacific Line shares later. The failed privatisation of Air New Zealand and NZ rail also showed the folly of selling key strategic transport assets.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:44am
  - Taieri
    
    Yet the demise of the Union Company and South Pacific Shipping was virtually unnoticed. The cross-traders were supposed to take up the resulting slack. Instead of doing that they effectively killed Pacifica Shipping. It’s successor Swire Shipping does a bit of container repositioning with one vessel on the Kiwi coast but doesn’t seem to be interested in the inter-modal shipping.
    
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    October 31, 2021 9:44am
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      USSCo was sold to Brierly and TNT and was asset stripped and they wernt interested in running a shipping co.
      
      S Pacific Shipping was a German tax dodge that left NZ owing in excess of $110 million.
      
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      October 31, 2021 1:35pm
      - Taieri
        
        S Pacific Shipping was a German tax dodge that left NZ owing in excess of $110 million.
        ————-
        
        Yes it was. But then the Shipping Corporation debts were considerably higher. SPS provided reliable trans Tasman service with 10 or so smallish container vessels trading between quite a few regional ports and well over 200 extremely well paid seagoing jobs.
        
        And no, I never worked for SPS.
        
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        October 31, 2021 3:18pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    I, for one, didn’t oppose the sale mike. And strategic assets? In who’s opinion? NZ Governments have a long record owning businesses they shouldn’t, and running the ineptly (Shipping Corp, NZ Rail, Air NZ all come to mind) and costing tax payers 100’s of millions. So no, it wasn’t folly to sell them, it was folly to buy them back.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:03am
    - plc
      
      Yeah now they waste millions of dollars directly through the increase in staff in the Ministries in Wellington.
      
      Three Waters will create 9000 new jobs – Mahuta
      
      14 1
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      October 31, 2021 10:20am
      - 7kiwi11
        
        These 9000 extra salaries we will pay for are supposed to make our water bills cheaper?!
        
        7 0
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        October 31, 2021 1:02pm
    - Fight4NZ
      
      Given the high support for ACT that I see here, I would have thought the idea of Govt involvement would be an anathema. Surely the market will solve it!!
      Doesn’t the Govt now own Air NZ as a result of private ownership incompetence?
      
      4 2
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      October 31, 2021 12:17pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    SCONZ was in the financial poo. Never properly capitalised and was bleeding money.
    
    There is no way that a modern SCONZ could compete against Maersk/CMA/MSC or any of the others.
    
    Work out the coat of 4 x 8500 teu vessels PLUS 4 sets of containers EACH then the infrastructure and the cost will be in the BILLIONS. Remember owing to the export of reefer cargoes the vessels will have to have a high electricity capability and at least 1/3rd of your containers will have to be reefers at about US$15k + per box.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:06am
- Nickc2
  
  How will this $365M be recouped? You guessed it, 20% GST anyone?
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:09am
  - Clownworld
    
    To be fair to crash an economy you don’t pay back you default. Great reset Greek tragedy style.
    
    17 1
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    October 31, 2021 9:48am
    - Nickc2
      
      Agree, but it won’t necessarily be spent on repaying debt. I’m picking it will be used to buy Maori votes in perpetuity.
      
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      October 31, 2021 11:04am
- kevn
  
  @MasterM… What is the story with the new 3m x 3m containers I hear about? A new global standard?
  
  [Probably the same answer he gave when you asked the same question 18/10. mod.
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/10/general_debate_18_october_2021.html/comment-page-1#comment-3044037 ]
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:23am
  - kevn
    
    Thanks, I missed that reply.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:20am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  MM
  
  I was a Master with Shipping Corp of NZ and one of the reasons it failed was it was never Capitalised properly plus the Board was made up of Political Mates of the Govt.
  
  To set up a Shipping Co now would cost BILLIONS.
  
  Best thing to do would be to get several shipping cos to come in and get them to operate as the Conference Lines dkid pre containerisation.
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:28am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I suspect the government’s ability to get shipping companies to cooperate in the interests of New Zealand would be as difficult as raising capital for our own shipping line.
    
    7 14
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    October 31, 2021 9:59am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Yep, one of the original Directors was Tom Skinner. In terms of business acumen, about the same as Grant Robertson. Zero.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:05am
  - Jack5
    
    Fightingtemeraire’s: To set up a Shipping Co now would cost BILLIONS…
    
    FT, can you see it ever being profitable to set up a shipping company for coastal service, or coastal service plus Australia?
    
    Would that be more economic than the cabotage of overseas lines moving cargo between NZ ports?
    
    Wouldn’t an efficient coastal service be ideal for New Zealand, an archipelago with mountains, rivers, floods, earthquakes making road-based transport, especially between islands, vulnerable and expensive ?
    
    If it is financially feasible, a shipping venture wouldn’t be alone in finding it hard to raise capital. Our investors are big on property development, but unadventurous in other fields.
    
    PS: Here’s an internet depiction of Turner’s great painting of the Trafalgar veteran, the “Fighting” Temeraire, being towed to the breakers. A good pseudonym for a mariner.
    
    https://d3l2rivt3pqnj2.cloudfront.net/i/prints/lg/4/0/40356.jpg
    
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    October 31, 2021 2:23pm
- Stu2
  
  “NZ and Australia really need a “National” line for security and shipping”
  
  NZ labour costs a lot compared with the crews the international consortia are using.
  Kiwi wages, ACC, Kiwisaver, holiday pay …
  Australian labour would be even more expensive.
  
  Anyone know how much of operating a container ship is labour, rather than fuel, maintenance, capital/depreciation and port charges …?
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:36am
  - Fight4NZ
    
    Set up using leased assets and crews maybe? No idea of availability, probably near zero as all raking it in on the lucrative US/EU/China routes.
    
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    October 31, 2021 12:20pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Going to be an awful Xmas for retailers. Expect a shortage of product, high prices and insufficient profits to finance the rest of the year as is common.
  Many more businesses are likely to be closed down by the end of February.
  
  Our amateur gulliblement strikes again in their ignorance. Business and commerce are the lifeblood which provides taxes to fund public services. We cannot shut parts of NZ down without affecting the whole.
  
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  October 31, 2021 1:14pm
G152

Any-one sussed out just what the greens new world is going to look like and the limitations that we’ll be under ???
Will it be worse than Covid
44 2
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October 31, 2021 8:16am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  The World depopulated by 90%.
  
  They are going to need something a little stronger than Covid.
  
  22 2
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  October 31, 2021 8:34am
  - Reid
    
    What do you think the vax is for?
    
    15 5
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    October 31, 2021 9:47am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Oh, I think know. Is it like the DNA targeting nanobots in the new James Bond movie?
      
      5 7
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      October 31, 2021 10:34am
    - mawm
      
      Something that has piqued my interest are the anecdotal reports of vax side effects where people are reporting a number of family members or of friends having severe complications, mainly thrombotic. It almost seems as if it is regional and they are getting a different vax. Now I see others are commenting on this.
      
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      October 31, 2021 11:04am
      - Reid
        
        You mean in NZ mawm? Got a link?
        
        2 1
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        October 31, 2021 11:30am
      - mawm
        
        No American. Sorry no link but noted in several different discussion boards.
        
        1 0
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        October 31, 2021 2:43pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    They are proposing to use climate change too.
    
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    October 31, 2021 1:15pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  That depends on how many 85-vehicle motorcades Joe Biden has over the next few weeks…
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:18am
JibberJabber

Yeah, no shit?

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Definition-of-fully-vaccinated-could-16569873.php

If you’ve received a two-dose course of the Moderna or Pfizer COVID vaccines, or a one-and-done Johnson & Johnson shot, you’re considered by health officials to be fully vaccinated against the coronavirus.

For now.
But that could change as eligibility for booster shots continues to expand.

These ****s are setting us up for a lifetime of booster dependency and the Pfizer fanbois are not even batting an eyelid, all it took was 2 shots and an unflinching trust in corrupt politicians and their lapdog media.
No shit 2,

“We’re doing an experiment in real time,” said Warner Greene, a virologist and senior investigator at the Gladstone Institutes in San Francisco. “We don’t know how to optimally use the vaccines yet. What we do know is that two shots are not preventing infections as efficiently after six months.”

Jesu’ fargin’ wept ?
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October 31, 2021 8:17am
- Benedict Yu
  
  ” we do know is that two shots are not preventing infections as efficiently after six months.”
  
  Maybe he has been reading my posts on Kiwiblog.
  
  I think New Zealand Government will wait and see on booster shots. The story will evolve over the next couple of years. One scenario is that we all get booster shots. The message will be “You all get a flu shot every year so no big deal”.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:34am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    I don’t know what planet you live on, but in my world, not everyone receives an annual flu shot. In fact, these people would be in the minority, probably a tiny minority of elderly and/or vulnerable people. It’s also not mandatory, and there are no social or economic consequences for opting out. I’ve never had a flu shot and have never had the flu.
    
    The government is only “waiting and seeing” with regard to when they will say “oh, and by the way, it’s boosters for ever.” They will not admit that this is their intention, because people will then see the real implications (if they haven’t already), and will realise they have been deceived by the “it’s only two shots” lie. Contrary to your casual attitude, the requirement for mandatory indefinite boosters is a massive and life-changing deal, and it should not be conflated with the flu-shot scenario.
    
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    October 31, 2021 9:43am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      You misread my post. I am not (yet) advocating annual covid boosters. But yes I must live in a different world. All my Chinese friends and colleagues have the flu shot. I would estimate that 95 percent of my non Chinese friends would have it. For employees of large businesses and government departments you get it on site for free
      
      Why on earth do you not get vaccinated against influenza? Unlike covid the vaccine has been around for 30 years. There is a wealth of data on its efficacy.
      
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      October 31, 2021 10:24am
      - rouppe
        
        Why on earth do you not get vaccinated against influenza?
        
        Because in my 59 years I’ve never contracted influenza.
        
        I have had shots over the years, when it was offered by my employer, but for the majority of my life I have not had them.
        
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        October 31, 2021 10:52am
      - Tom Hunter
        
        As with rouppe, I’ve never had the flu shot, even though it was offered for free every Fall at the various companies I worked with.
        
        My reasons for not taking it were:
        – Each season’s vaccine is a guesstimate of what flu will emerge in the coming winter, based on global surveys. It was therefore no great surprise to me to have co-workers falling ill with the flu despite having had the flu shot.
        
        – Being young and relatively healthy I saw no need. Once or twice I got the flu as well, but nothing particularly serious aside from feeling like crap, after which I had an enhanced immunity.
        
        No doubt that last will change as I grow older and by the time I’m in my 70’s (assuming I make it that far against the Deadly Delta 🙂 🙂 🙂 ) I may well start to take flu shots.
        
        16 3
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        October 31, 2021 11:48am
      - bronny1
        
        Why would I get vaxxed against flu?
        I’ve had it twice in 50 years, once as a kid and once aged about 30. It sure wasn’t nice but four days of feeling shite certainly isn’t enough to get me rolling up for a flu shot at 50, even though I have worked for many entities that offer it for free.
        I have health professional friends such as pharmacists who get the shot, they still get the flu though – at least as often as me!
        I will not be having a flu shot, it is unnecessary if you have a functioning immune system. Why would you?
        
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        October 31, 2021 12:25pm
      - Hollyfield
        
        I have the flu shot, paid by my work. In my department of 20, only 2 of us did it.
        
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        October 31, 2021 12:36pm
      - burt
        
        I’m in my mid 50’s, I’ve had the flu 4 times in my life. Once in my early 20’s which given the lifestyle of late nights, alcohol, recreational substances, poor sleep and poor diet I totally deserved. The only other times were in the years where I had the flu shot, all 3 times about 5-6 weeks after getting the shot. I know full well the shot didn’t ‘give it to me’ but the correlation implies it stuffed with my natural immunity and made me more susceptible than I would normally be.
        
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        October 31, 2021 1:25pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Flu shots aren’t pushing toxic proteins into the body, although some (very few, but some) get reactions and anaphylactic shock from flu vaccine shots.
    
    Problem I see is that every shot multiplies the chances of a bad outcome, if the S protein gets widely circulated in the body you will get a serious reaction primarily but not restricted to heart tissue. It can also potentially cross the brain blood barrier and cause problems there as well.
    
    As an emergency measure the risk is too high but tolerable in the short term, sorry to those people who draw the short straw. But long term, what the hell are they thinking ? And for children, immoral bastards.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:05am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Can you provide any scientific evidence that the covid vaccines contain “toxic” proteins. I mean scientific, peer reviews evidence that the lipid coatings are in fact “toxic”?
      
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      October 31, 2021 10:27am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Of course he can’t – there is none.
        
        4 12
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        October 31, 2021 10:35am
      - mawm
        
        There are so many different lipid nanoparticle formulations that it is very difficult to get any clarification from prior animal studies. It seems that insufficient laboratory testing has been done to determine where their mRNA payload is delivered and hence which cells are killed by cytotoxic T-cells. This is the theory behind myocarditis in children.
        
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        October 31, 2021 1:19pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        AND the vaccine providers are lawyer ed up to avoid any responsibility.
        
        3 1
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        October 31, 2021 1:21pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Here is one of many reputable reports:
        https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/09/02/american-scientists-confirm-toxic-graphene-oxide-and-more-in-covid-injections/
        
        You will find on: https://www.globalresearch.ca
        
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        October 31, 2021 1:24pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Benedict, the S or Spike protein of the Covid-19 virus , when in free circulation, binds to another (said to be CD35) receptor which is primarily expressed in heart muscle and the surrounding tissue. The binding site on the S protein for the CD35 site is normally “internal” to the virus, so the virus itself does not bind to that receptor, but instead quite strongly binds the ACE2 receptor found in lung tissue.
        
        This was from a pre-print paper I found, but have to say I am having a problem referencing it. If I can find it I will post a reference, of course it may have been withdrawn, so I will have to follow up.
        
        The paper proposed that this is the driver behind the acknowledged myocardial and clotting issues associated with both Covid-19 itself and the vaccines. Note that the issues are not confined to the mRNA vaccines, the J&J and AZ also have the same issues, clotting disorders, strokes, and myocarditis. These non mRNA vaccines do however use the S protein to generate the immune response only they are inserted into inactivated adeno viruses.
        
        Also note that the version of the S protein encoded by the mRNA vaccines is not identical to the natural viral protein and it lacks several key features that enable the ACE2 receptor binding.
        
        I think it seems reasonably obvious that as the virus itself and all the major vaccines all have issues with heart and blood clotting problems, and that the only factor that they have in common is the S protein (even in a modified form), that the S protein itself is then associated with the problems. As it causes illness and disease, I think by definition that is toxic.
        
        If the modified S protein in the mRNA vaccines cannot bind to ACE2 (by design), then some other related binding is likely to be the problem. The CD35 (or other receptor) binding may not be the issue, but it is at least plausible for now.
        
        I know we have discussed before the theory that if the mRNA escapes into the blood streaming enters the heart and is expressed there, that could readily explain the relatively rare incidence of the related problems.That generated some discussion about “aspirating” the needle at the time of ones injection.
        
        And you don’t need Graphene Oxide type conspiracies to explain the issue.
        
        [In future if you can find sources for these types of claims, that will make us Mods happier to allow it – Mod]
        
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        October 31, 2021 2:26pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Once your immune system is completely compromised, you will be on a vaccination/pill hamster wheel for the rest of your life.
  
  Follow the money, who is profiting form all this.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:36am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    How do vaccines “compromise” your immune system? What if [is] the pharmacological mechanism that, literally, causes your immune system to be compromised by the vaccine? News to me but I am aways interested in reading new scientific studies.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:29am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      Even if, hypothetically, the vaccines are 100% perfectly safe in every conceivable way, and they prevent infection and transmission in 100% of cases, this still does not justify forcing them into people who don’t want them. The principle is “no forced vaccination” not “no forced vaccination (unless proven to be safe and/or effective).”
      
      Although there are clear issues with its ability to act as any vaccine should, and even though it is indisputable that there is no long-term experience with mRNA vaccines on humans in general, and even more so re: this particular vaccine, it’s the coercion that is the issue. At bottom, the issue is nothing to do with the vaccine itself.
      
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      October 31, 2021 10:43am
    - Fletch
      
      This is not official of course, but a medical Dr did a panel of tests before, and after the shots. HUGE hit on the immune system – the CD4, CD8, white killer T cells etc. He even goes so far as to call the person autoimmune based on the results.
      
      https://assets.infowarsmedia.com/videos/8f1b28a1-eb3c-47c3-8aa8-abb35aa0411f.mp4
      
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      October 31, 2021 10:54am
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      BY – you shouldn’t say “never ” – you might just be taken up on it. 🙂
      https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/agm2.12171?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=pmd_VkH9dGVFe0XQcdQSPadBChXvjG7nHwsj6Dt.gVdujY8-1635286171-0-gqNtZGzNAjujcnBszQsR
      
      rare adverse event sure – mechanism ?? – in papers the references you’ll find links to other recordings of this occurring with BNT162b2.
      
      And believe me it’s real – there was a reason I started researching it a month odd back.
      
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      October 31, 2021 12:27pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The vaccine is having your DNA produce spike proteins throughout your body.
      [It was supposed to stay in the arm. Human are a novel form of guinea pig.]
      
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      October 31, 2021 1:26pm
- cmm
  
  UK is already deep into booster land.
  
  A business associate of mine in UK had his booster two weeks ago (got his original jab s in January/February).
  
  A few days ago they went to an indoors concert with about 200 other people.
  
  This all while they are getting 40,000 new “cases” a day.
  
  We need to grow up in NZ and stop hiding under the bed.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:42am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “We need to grow up in NZ and stop hiding under the bed.”
    
    Good luck. Every time I try get out from under the bed this woman named Jacinda wacks me in the head with her broom.
    
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    October 31, 2021 8:46am
    - cmm
      
      Yes, there really is a monster to be scared of.
      Her name is Jacinda!
      
      45 1
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      October 31, 2021 8:50am
      - JB.49
        
        @cmm 8:50AM
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-0wVqb6eFM
        
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        October 31, 2021 9:32am
    - thirteenstars
      
      Remind us again: what colour traffic light and level combo is required for getting out from under the bed?
      
      There must be one.
      
      25 0
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      October 31, 2021 9:37am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Green 1A ???
        
        10 0
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        October 31, 2021 10:30am
      - cmm
        
        … and don’t forget to cross your fingers and put on your lucky undies!
        
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        October 31, 2021 10:40am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Interesting the World did not end.
    
    Life goes on, for the rest of the World.
    
    Except for the hermit Kingdoms like North Korea and New Zealand.
    
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    October 31, 2021 9:00am
    - Cinematic
      
      I’ve heard North Korea has a dictator too.
      
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      October 31, 2021 9:59am
- artemisia
  
  Who is going to pay for all those booster shots? So far, taxpayers are footing the entire bill.
  
  Annual flu jabs are voluntary and paid variously by taxpayers, employers, individuals.
  
  Similar plan for covid jabs, including new variants? With of course a benefit cost analysis. So where is the plan? On the basis of decisions so far the boosters will become mandatory for a large chunk of the workforce and consumers of goods and services.
  
  Enquiring minds …
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:43am
  - krazykiwi
    
    This is an old fashioned extortion racket with new actors. The poor store owner is the taxpayer. The twitchy guy with the balaclava and gun is our government. The boss is the Pfizer CEO.
    
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    October 31, 2021 9:49am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It will probably be the same deal as the flu shot. Some folks will be free. Some will pay.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:32am
    - rouppe
      
      Except the flu shot is discretionary
      
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      October 31, 2021 11:04am
      - artemisia
        
        The covid vax is also discretionary. Especially for the wealthy and anyone else who does not need to work.
        
        Am having trouble getting my head round the path back to normal (if it exists) – be good to hear how the planned path takes account of initial vax, boosters, variants, passport expiry, jobs, access to retail / services / events.
        
        There is a plan of course. //
        
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        October 31, 2021 2:40pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  But so what if it turns out we have to get repeat jabbed every year?
  
  There are plenty of other vaccinations that are supposed to be renewed, and there are plenty of other medical interventions that are supposed to be done on a regular basis lifelong, eg mammograms, dental checkups, prostate examinations, eye tests – many of which are considerably more uncomfortable and time consuming than a jab. There are plenty of other non-medical processes that have to be repeated on a regular basis, eg car rego/wof, insurance, tax returns – many of them with considerably less benefit to the individual who has to do it.
  
  Again – so what? What’s so damning about the possibility that the covid vaccination too will need to be repeated?
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:23am
  - Reid
    
    Because Ross, the spike protein is cyto-toxic, meaning everytime you get more of them, more and more of your cells get damaged. That’s why.
    
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    October 31, 2021 9:49am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Can you cite any reputable peer reviewed study that supports your cell damage hypothesis?
      
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      October 31, 2021 10:33am
      - Reid
        
        Just duck duck cytotoxic spike protein and plenty come up Benedict. I wouldn’t bother investigating if I were you, it’s not an important element compared to what the vax does to your body’s immune system, understanding that effect is a far more important aspect of your informed consent process, because of what it means to one’s long term health.
        
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        October 31, 2021 11:22am
  - krazykiwi
    
    So what?!? I suggest you do some research on the efficacy and safety of these ‘vaccines’. It’s your body – right? So deep dive for a couple of months and then come back and confirm you’re still happy to be jabbed in perpetuity.
    
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    October 31, 2021 9:52am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Nope. I am happy to take advice from people for whom “research” means years spent in a laboratory testing and retesting every hypothesis, not “googling until I find a youtube video that agrees with me”.
      
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      October 31, 2021 10:06am
      - Stellaboxer
        
        Would they be the same people that tell you to wear masks they know and are on the record as saying don’t work? Or are they the people who advocated the elimination strategy with no idea of what to do next? Or maybe the ones who presented the country with their wildly inaccurate death and gloom but politically convenient models ?
        
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        October 31, 2021 10:59am
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        But they haven’t spent “years” testing this substance.
        
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        October 31, 2021 11:38am
      - bronny1
        
        The problem is that none of these so called experts have any experience with this “vaccine”, certainly not your doctor or any of the “experts” that are continually promoting themselves here.
        Why on earth would you trust your GP on this? That’s like relying on your GP to give you advice on whether to have neuro surgery! Or nutrition! Each of which they covered in half an hour 30 years ago.
        
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        October 31, 2021 12:33pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Some of us don’t work in labs but we do have background in forensic investigation and can gather up, sort out and absorb more than most. I have even go my own line of herbal remedies.
        
        The lab workers tend to be very narrow minded and I reckon that sometimes I see too much. Thankfully I have been righter more than wronger.
        
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        October 31, 2021 1:34pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Research means reading published, or preprint papers. A warning though: there are long words and complex numbers. I’m sure you’ll get the hang of it. Or just go back to The Herald, Stuff and 1News if that’s easier for you.
        
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        October 31, 2021 4:32pm
  - Clownworld
    
    An effective vaccine sterilises ie no spread and usually just one dose or max up to three doses for eg mmr.
    
    Pfizer is like a rundown trabant compared to other vaccines, say measles which is like a ferrari.
    
    In this case what other vaccine requires a 5month jab every year until you die?
    
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    October 31, 2021 9:57am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Albert, all the tests are non toxic, although sometimes the prostate check doesn’t feel that way. Admittedly any check involving X Rays carries some risk, although with modern techniques that is very small.
    
    The risk with Covid shots, at least using the current versions available, is that they rely on generating an antibody reaction to a protein that is toxic to humans. The method used, to either inject the protein itself in a lipid nanoparticles or to use mRNA that will express the same protein, runs a risk that if for any of a number of reasons the protein gets loose in the body, you will suffer a range of disorders up to an including cardiac failure and serious blood clotting disorders. Each booster shot will increase this risk, possibly exponentially.
    
    There does need to be a better solution, as an emergency treatment the current vaccines are a calculated risk, probably pretty reasonable for people older than, say, 30.
    
    One approach we could use is to seriously investigate anti-viral treatments so that people can actually catch the virus and fight it off, obtaining a relatively long lasting natural immunity with the lowest possible chance of pleasant side effects. One explanation of this is that the S protein as displayed by a virus only has part of the protein exposed to the body, the rest is embedded in the viral envelope. And it is the portions inside the virus that bind to the CD35 receptor in the heart muscles and interfere with the blood clotting mechanism.
    
    Yet this anti-viral approach is all but banned, and why ? To protect Pfizer and Moderna profits maybe ? Why don’t we send a small team to India just to see what there is behind the treatment regionals in Uttar Pradesh and Delhi. If they really work we should follow them, if the don’t, well, it was a small expense to investigate a real possible solution. Medical authorities are too stupid or too compromised to be relied upon it seems.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:18am
    - Reid
      
      The issue Ed is that the mRNA does indeed go all through the body, attaching itself to any cells with ACE2 receptors, which include most organs including your heart. The lipid nanoparticle coating all passes straight through the blood brain barrier. And all those cells are now churning out spike proteins, inside your own body.
      
      It does not stay within the lymphatic system, as other viruses have done in the past.
      
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      October 31, 2021 11:28am
      - Ed Snack
        
        mRNA gets used up and destroyed, normally anyway. Although mechanisms do exist to import RNA into human DNA (retrotranscriptase is used by RNA viruses to replicate) this is very rare. It can happen though, reference the considerable amount of DNA in the human genome that is the remnants of ancient viruses – an interesting study on its own.
        
        So unless there’s some serious research demonstrating the incorporation of the mRNA sequences into human DNA, I would have to doubt this specific example.
        
        The escape and distribution of the nanoparticles that contain the mRNA is enough to explain the protein being found elsewhere, but the effect should be time limited – though damage from the S protein is not necessarily time limited.
        
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        October 31, 2021 2:35pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      One of the problems with anti-virals is that their effectiveness can only be in the first ~10 days because after that time there is little virus left what is remains is cellular damage and derangement that has initiated a hyperinflammatory response.
      
      Given that those infected can be pre-symptomatic for 5 days it leaves little time for anti-virals to be introduced in response to a self-detected infection.
      
      This is why using proven anti-virals such as Ivermectin for prophylaxis is important, because up to 5 days of what the individual might expect as prophylaxis is really pre-symptomatic early-stage treatment.
      
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      October 31, 2021 5:28pm
  - rouppe
    
    A mammogram, a PSA test, and and eye test are not interventions.
    
    A mastectomy, prostate removal and laser correction are interventions
    
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    October 31, 2021 11:06am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    What’s so damning about the possibility that the covid vaccination too will need to be repeated?
    
    In principle nothing, given that we already have booster shots for some other vaccines. I had a tetanus booster shot just a couple of years ago.
    
    But those are infrequent, with years or even decades between boosters.
    
    I’m not aware of any vaccine before, that has required booster shots so frequently (every six months seems to be the CW claim but it could be shorter) and with no end in sight. I’d say that’s pretty damning about the efficacy of the original C-19 vaccines.
    
    Great for Pfizer and company though. I can’t help wondering if the subscription model of software that has passed into the world of machinery like trucks and tractors, has now made it’s way to the world of medicine.
    
    Looking at the one vaccine that is currently delivered every year to those who want it, the flu vax, note that it’s not a booster. Also with 500-700 deaths per year from the flu in NZ when will the flu shot become compulsory, now that we’ve apparently accepted the C-19 standard that a death toll in the range is unacceptable.
    
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    October 31, 2021 11:56am
Poppa

I have managed to find 3 people who admit voting for Labour last time. They are hard to find though

None are voting for her again so there is hope
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October 31, 2021 8:19am
- cmm
  
  “None are voting for her again so there is hope”
  
  Yes, but:
  * Are they going to vote? Not voting is still half a vote.
  * Are they switching to Green? That’s still voting for her.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:43am
- plc
  
  So you know no women between the ages of 18-50 years old then.
  
  Because they did vote for her….and they love her.
  
  Bridget Jones Government
  
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  October 31, 2021 10:24am
  - dcrane
    
    My parents-in-law are 65, both of them lifelong Labour, and both show little sign of cracking in their support. The complicance cult is powerful.
    
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    October 31, 2021 11:52am
  - bronny1
    
    I have not and will not. And I’m in your demographic. I’ll tell you who did vote for her! A women’s group I used to be part of based in fendalton in chch with most in the 55-65 range. They all still think she is marvellous. Most of them are profs eg doctors and lawyers
    
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    October 31, 2021 12:37pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Whereas, the people in sunny Aranui who voted for Cinders previously, and got ashes, are now speaking vigorously against her.
      
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      October 31, 2021 2:54pm
Ruahine

I would to thank all those people around the country who attended the Freedom Rallys yesterday, but I would especially like to thank all those who went to the Auckland Rally in the Domain and defied the Gov’t who use the intimidation of the Police to prevent them.
The fear that this Gov’t has created over this virus and the lies and stupid information coming from Ardern for their own political advantage is something I have never ever seen before in New Zealand. I do not fear this virus anymore than I feared the Sars virus back in 2008. When it come to health fears what I fear is getting a lingering debilitating cancer or suffering a heart attack and suffering brain damage and becoming a burden on others or perhaps getting dementia. The list could go on but you get my point.
Yes. I have been vaccinated twice for latest virus. Since June actually. I am writing this because it illustrates that now one is socially pushed because of Ardern and her health policies to declare your ‘loyalty’. All this is not really about health so much as decietfulness, bullying and blackmail to conform to ‘their’ imposed patterns of social behaviour.
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October 31, 2021 8:23am
- dcrane
  
  We should all be there every weekend going forward until the government really listens.
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:54am
- bronny1
  
  The protest was good. Nice to be able to talk without being declared insane or a child murderer or something!
  
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  October 31, 2021 12:39pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    I usually settle for not being labeled as a white supremacist, a pale stale male, a racist, a coloniser, a boomer, a terf denier, a climate denier, a denier in general when my view point does not agree with screeching pointy finger, etc etc
    
    No wonder many prefer the safety and comfort of being under the bed . . .
    
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    October 31, 2021 2:36pm
cmm

Go baby go!

We need this infection to spread. We cannot have Fortress NZ forever. The sooner this comes to NZ the better. Come on SI….

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-record-high-cases-raises-fears-for-health-system/FZRJF4TWLB5ZGSH67MDUSGQIGY/
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October 31, 2021 8:25am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Covid cases doubling every week.
  
  This cant be so.
  
  Vaccination rates are at well above what is required for herd immunity.
  
  If the vaccine is effective at sterilizing the Virus, if the vaccine is effective in stopping transmission.
  
  It is looking more like the vaccinated are being hit harder than the unvaccinated.
  
  Dear Leader won’t like that, she will not like that at all.
  
  Que Hitler youtube clip.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:51am
- tui47
  
  Exactly my feeling on covid. I think in the long run the gangs have done us a favour by pushing NZ towards the reality of covid earlier than the Government wanted. NZ outside Auckland waits in terror. They almost seem unaware that its coming. But humans have proved time and time again when you have something for long enough, you get used to it and you learn to live with it. Then one you will realise it is over. But we can’t wait in my smug hermit kingdom for that day and Labour supporters in particular need to understand that.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:54am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    The gangs! Who would have thought that! $2.75 mil well spent then . . .
    
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    October 31, 2021 2:37pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Good. Faster it goes up the better at this point. We’re maxed out on vaccinated, those who want it have had it, and better to have the peak sooner in January, so we can finally stop caring about covid and NZ can get back to normal.
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:54am
  - Cinematic
    
    We’ll only be getting back to normal when this government falls.
    
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    October 31, 2021 12:20pm
    - miltonF
      
      This government will only fall when the economy falls.
      
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      October 31, 2021 2:35pm
Mr_Blobby

“That possibly explains why so many of her decisions – from the three-step roadmap to the traffic light system to the constantly shifting vaccine goals – leave Aucklanders frustrated.”

The bottom line is she does not want Auckland to go to Level 2.

So a 3 step roadmap, not Level 2

Traffic Light system, not level 2.

End result segregation and apartheid, on a scale few ever thought would ever happen in New Zealand.
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October 31, 2021 8:28am
- cmm
  
  anything to not give up control.
  
  That is after all what this is all about.
  
  The MoH could make all the stats available when they get them all collated (by 10 am). Instead we must endure the Podium Of Truth and first put up with 20 minutes of Cindy.
  
  It’s worse than the way Youtube forces ads on you to watch. And worse yet there’s no browser plug in to skip Cindy.
  
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  October 31, 2021 2:49pm
Odakyu-sen

Full vaccination won’t stop the virus spreading, since the vaccination is a non-sterilizing type. (The vaccination arms you with antibodies to fight the infection, but won’t stop you becoming infected or passing on the bug to others.)

If the vaccination stopped you from spreading the virus, then with close to 80% of the Auckland population vaccinated, it would be hard for the bug to find hosts. As a result, the Ro value would be less than 1.0 and the pandemic would fizzle out.

Let’s watch the case numbers in Auckland through November.
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October 31, 2021 8:32am
JibberJabber

COP26 – Covid Carbon super spreader event

2 private airfields
Over 100 private jets
50% of all plane emissions are from private jets
No red countries so no quarantine
No vaccine requirements and no passports.
22 new Tesla limos, one charging station, 21 diesel generators…
?world paradise.
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October 31, 2021 8:38am
Benedict Yu

So a truck driver with covid enters a logistics centre and the whole, very large building is shut for a deep clean.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126833409/cantabrians-on-high-alert-as-vaccination-rate-passes-90-per-cent

How is that rational? How many people does it take to deep clean a building that size?

Based on what I know about covid I would happily enter that building. I would not lick the walls and would wash my hands when I left.

They will probably deep clean the buses that are “locations of interest”. Hilarious. Buses are a cesspit of viruses and bacteria. Permanently.
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October 31, 2021 8:42am
- cmm
  
  It is part of the theatre.
  
  What is deep cleaning anyway? Probably just use a mop and a bucket of water with a slosh of Janola.
  
  My major customer has had their offices deep cleaned at the start of every lock down. I think this pretty much just meant wiping door knobs and the tables in meeting rooms.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:48am
  - Hollyfield
    
    I have thought that about deep cleaning for a while. Last lockdown we would hear all the time that a supermarket (location of interest) was closed for several hours while being deep cleaned. That should in theory mean every surface is cleaned – how do you clean a bag of flour, or box of cereal? It must have meant merely cleaning the checkout counters (which they do every day anyway) and the trolley handles. I don’t consider that a “deep clean”.
    
    Interestingly, this lockdown I haven’t noticed any comments that supermarkets have been closed for a deep clean. They are often mentioned as locations of interest, so I would think if they were being closed for cleaning there would have been some comment about it.
    
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    October 31, 2021 9:21am
    - sooty
      
      Do they take every box of the shelf and clean all six sides and then put it back or just walk around with a fog gun up and down the aisle?
      
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      October 31, 2021 11:03am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    to kill all virus all you need to do is raise temperature to 50-60°C for a couple of hours. Would have been an advantage of a dedicated MIQ facility, or camper vans, or tents etc.
    
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    October 31, 2021 9:56am
  - krazykiwi
    
    It has been estimated that there have been a billion SARS-CoV-2 infections to date. There are ZERO confirmed as a result of fomite transmission. You are right. It is all theatre. Grotesque theatre that our descendants will look back at with incredulity.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:00am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Krazykiwi has it right, the whole deep cleaning routine is now just more theatre to impress the rubes.
      
      Early on in the pandemic, before the exact mode of transmission was established (there were some who had this identified real early from knowledge of both BCVs and SARS, but as is normal in health bureaucracies they were ignored and marginalised) there is justification for being as proactive as possible to minimise spread.
      
      However as it is now unequivocally established that Covid is aerosol spread, and tests have shown it is essentially exclusively aerosol spread, it would make sense to modify our precautions and treatments based on “the science”. However that appears to be one 5ing that we cannot do !
      
      By following the science that would mean a focus on ventilation and indoor spread, which is all that really matters. Forget masks, forget deep cleaning, relentlessly focus on the actual spreading pathways and stop fear mongering.
      
      But we won’t, for this government, the theatre is actually more important than prevention.
      
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      October 31, 2021 10:25am
    - cmm
      
      I’m pretty certain that if someone sneezed bit gobs of sputum directly onto a surface and you then wiped that all over your face you’d transfer the virus pretty effectively.
      
      But true fomites from from an asymptomatic person is quite another matter.
      
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      October 31, 2021 10:47am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Maybe, maybe, but possibly the key thing about the aerosol particles and Covid-19 is that they penetrate deep into the lungs and can to some extent evade the other human defences against invading pathogens like the mucosal system and other mechanisms. Some viruses on the face etc might be able to infect, but quite likely Covid actually needs to penetrate to the lungs, which it is so well adapted to do so.
        
        So maybe the fomites can exist but just not be a significant disease vector.
        
        Tricky to test in an ethical way !
        
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        October 31, 2021 2:40pm
    - Reid
      
      Only if we win kk, only if we win. If we don’t then their future is as Churchill described of sinking into the abyss of perverted science and darkness.
      
      That’s what’s happening, and most people don’t even know we’re at war.
      
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      October 31, 2021 10:50am
- Inandout
  
  BY, I did wonder what the once heavily advertised ‘meth buster’ deep cleaning chaps were doing now. One door closes due to lockdowns, another opens due to covid. While we are running around like masked headless chooks the rest of the world moves on.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:49am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Public transport is the perfect Virus incubation box, and should have been shut down immediately, if they were serious about stopping transmission.
  
  Level 4 heavily subsidized public transport carried on as usual, including very few customers.
  
  24 1
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  October 31, 2021 8:54am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Run the buses (and trains) with the windows fixed in the full open position. That would basically prevent any transmission by eliminating viral aerosol buildup.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:26am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    When I used public transport I was always getting sick. Since I stopped, nothing. Despite what the Greens say the only people who get public transport are these people:
    
    Too old to drive
    Too young to drive
    Can’t afford a car
    Can’t afford to park the car in the city, essentially Wellington or Auckland
    Those who live on a route where the traffic congestion makes the train faster. Kapiti Coast and Hutt Valley in Wellington are best examples but there are probably some in auckland.
    
    Nobody uses public transport to save the planet.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:42am
    - alloytoo
      
      I used to use the train because it was faster than driving (train went through the hill, cars over it)
      
      I won’t catch a bus again, even heavily subsidized car was cheaper and quicker.
      
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      October 31, 2021 11:08am
    - Diogenes
      
      As an older cyclist, I love that nearly all Christchurch buses are fitted with bike racks. I use these quite regularly, particularly on days when I’m otherwise going to be cycling into a stiff wind, or it’s cold and wet. I need the cycle for the sometimes lengthy fore and aft parts of the journey not covered by a bus route. And many part of the city are hard to get at by bus. So while I don’t use public transport to save the planet, there are plenty of valid reasons that lie outside your criteria, BY.
      
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      October 31, 2021 1:58pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      There are a few people who do not want to drive, or being urban dwellers, have no where to park or store a car.
      
      One of my sons is like that, hasn’t yet learned to drive and lives inner city. Mostly bikes everywhere, it is a real cheap way to travel if you don’t need to go far. Though the theft tax on bicycles is a bummer, he’s had his bike stolen 4-5 times in 3 or so years, only recovered one of them. So he buys junk shop examples in terrible condition and does them up enough to be safe to ride – biggest complaint is that he buys a comfortable bike seat which is almost the most expensive part, and of course loses that in every theft.
      
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      October 31, 2021 2:43pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Public transport and bicycles are perfect for people who don’t have to do anything.
    
    16 0
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    October 31, 2021 12:14pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  “Buses are a cesspit of viruses and bacteria”.
  Yep Ben, but then again, buses are for the great unwashed. And you get what you pay for……
  
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  October 31, 2021 10:15am
  - sooty
    
    They expect the poor bloody ratepayer to pay for it as well, through the regional councils!
    
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    October 31, 2021 11:07am
Vory v zakone

#COP26SCAM

https://twitter.com/PrisonPlanet/status/1454376423003656194?t=MR6WKN0i51gYpthPZHwW2Q&s=19
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October 31, 2021 8:48am
Truman lodge

Can we break 200 cases today?
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October 31, 2021 8:51am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Here’s hoping
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:57am
- Cinematic
  
  Fingers crossed.
  
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  October 31, 2021 10:37am
cmm

Does anyone know how long PCR tests are supposed to take?

My son who got tested on Thursday still has not had results back. Is that normal?
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October 31, 2021 8:51am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  You should be able to spit into a tube and with some chemical agent and give it a shake.
  
  Result.
  
  15 1
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  October 31, 2021 8:55am
  - Reid
    
    Given it’s a virus that likes to live in your upper respiratory tract and it sits inside your mouth and nose for the first three days of infection a simple mouth swab will pick it up.
    
    Possibly they poke it up your nose for the same reasons the Egyptians used to poke their slaves up the nose. Right up behind the bridge of your nose is a part of your brain called your amygdala. The Egyptians used to bruise it in slaves to make them compliant. It’s the part of the brain which controls fear in humans.
    
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    October 31, 2021 10:01am
- tui47
  
  I do know it takes days but bear in mind there may be bigger days at the moment.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:55am
- kowtow
  
  As I understand it , within 48 hours.
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  3 tests now. Results for 1st in 20 hrs. 2nd in 7 hrs.
  3rd was in hospital last Tues for bronchial pneumonia, covid neg text was in 40 minutes
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:10am
- Taieri
  
  Had one done in July in Australia. The sample was collected on 19/07 just before the noon, the results reported on 20/07 at 6:45 am.
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:11am
  - sooty
    
    Yes, but they never had labour organizing it!
    
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    October 31, 2021 2:49pm
- cmm
  
  Thanks for all the replies. Since we haven’t had a SWAT team show up after 3 days, I’m assuming he tested negative and the bureaucratic mill is just grinding slowly.
  
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  October 31, 2021 2:53pm
Taieri

How is that rational?
——————

There’s been very little rationality in dealing with any Covid-19 related issues. To a degree I can understand the attitudes of politicians – they are driven by the polls and do not have the required intellectual capacity. What’s really disappointing though is the quality of advice coming from the plethora of “experts”. Some of them self-appointed. It seems that this aspect has been hijacked by a small cabal of people that managed to gain an access to the PM’s ear and are striving to exclude any contrarian views regardless of their merit. In fact one gets an impression that more effort has been spent on suppressing opinions, which don’t align with the approved narrative than on trying to understand the nature of disease and devising pragmatic and practical methods of dealing with it. Another striking aspect is single-mindedness and lack of imagination. At first, lockdowns and isolation from the outside world were to save us from the disaster of apocalyptic proportions. Now, it’s a vaccine with increasingly dubious efficacy that is going to set us free and happy thereafter. To the exclusion of everything else of course.
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October 31, 2021 9:05am
- thirteenstars
  
  Main factor is that Ardern is a socialist; literally she’s s socialist, which means her inclination is to control, to mandates, to authoritarianism.
  
  That’s the filter through which she runs everything she hears and the means by which she seeks solutions.
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:56am
- Reid
  
  The same thing happening here is also the way it happens overseas. In most countries you have a group of dissenting medical opinions which are silenced and ignored in favour of the lockstep official view on matters such as the vax is the only possible solution. This is almost universal with rare exceptions, meaning its not a NZ phenomena. I’ll leave it with you to ponder on what that means. Apart from to observe its clearly not practicing medical science, this approach, because science encourages dissent, it never suppresses it, unless it’s some kind of fake science like say, AGW, and we all know what’s going on with that. But same thing that happens there is also happening with the global medical community with Covid.
  
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  October 31, 2021 10:07am
  - mawm
    
    I saw someone call it the Gates Pandemic Response Plan. What is disturbing to me is how many medical registering bodies are yanking the registration of any doctor who doesn’t toe the “official” line, who questions the science or who prescribes any therapy either as a prophylactic or as early treatment. It’s almost as if they want people to die! And it is done in lockstep.
    
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    October 31, 2021 1:47pm
    - cmm
      
      Yup ours is doing that too.
      
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      October 31, 2021 2:54pm
ABS4EVA

I have applied to Work from Home as part
of

DIVERSITY and Inclusion and Multi Culturalism

I have a cultural and ethical objection to the use of
Aborted Fetus cells in testing or production

Quite frankly I do not give a RAT’s what
the Catholic Church’s view is on this
They ethically allow that if there is no other option
that is BS and a cop out

I don’t so GO TO HELL

I am Holding out for NOVAVAX

My employer can grant a 3-6 12 month
work from home exception or have

a 3-6 12 month
LEGAL FIGHT

I am fine with either
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October 31, 2021 9:14am
Tony

Jacinda says we aren’t allowed to talk to our neighbours!

I know the clip below has been edited for effect. But, whatever the context, this statement can only be seen as creepy and controlling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PtMgfESqp4
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October 31, 2021 9:33am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Full blown communism
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:51am
- Scooter
  
  Maybe that’s why she hasn’t been to Auckland since Aug, it must be easier not to talk to neighbours in her Wellington residence. Imagine living next door to her.
  
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  November 1, 2021 12:21am
lazza

Where are we now?

Forget the paranoia over questions of two … or two plus a booster.

If you have had two shots already, expect a booster/annual shot about Q1 2022. No big deal.

Consider how exposed we would all be without any vaccine … a distinct prospect a mere 12 months back.

Ridicule/lock up the Brian Tamaki’s of the world who are driven by sheer ignorance, arrogance and hubris.

Spend your energy on encouraging any bozo anti- vaxxer friends or whanau to do the Jab thing.

Message Jacinda that her days are numbered.

Push for ACT/Nats coalition talks to commence.

Send Robbo a current NZ financial statement showing rising $15 Bn of National debt. Request from him a 2022-2027 NZ Inc cashflow statement and have him sign a NZ going concern-solvency CF forecast if he dares. If not … then call for his resignation immediately.

There … all fixed?

Fraid not and be very afraid for your grand children.

This fools voter driven and unsustainable paradise that the socialists have constructed over the last 18 months is running out. When the tide recedes we see the wreckage of sunken ships. When this economic tide recedes … “Same”.

Hunker down, go fishing, plan to attend a Six 60 concert in 22, support the Farmers and give “Meta”/FB the shove.

Contribute positively to Kiwiblog and eschew those … who don’t.

Be happy.
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October 31, 2021 9:36am
- Jack5
  
  Labour Lazza’s Send Robbo a current NZ financial statement showing rising $15 Bn of National debt.
  
  The NZ Government had $155 billion of securities (loans) at September 30.
  
  New Zealand started the Covid-19 crisis with one of the world’s lowest Government debts in proportion to GDP.
  
  Ardern’s economic scorched earth policy against Covid has run up debt again.
  
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  October 31, 2021 10:51am
- dcrane
  
  Don’t have any bozo anti-vox friends. What about my sensible Pfizer-skeptical friends, especially the young ones?
  
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  October 31, 2021 12:20pm
  - bronny1
    
    Yeah I have had it with pro vax friends with zero knowledge about this vaccine trying to bully me into having it.
    
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    October 31, 2021 12:48pm
MCos

A few years ago on Halloween some kids came by the house and scared the shit out of us with their tricks.
Unfortunately we didn’t have any treats so the next & subsequent years we loaded up we loaded up with lollies and stuff.
Kids have good memories and we’ve never seen any again.

This year we have been blessed with Level 3 lockdown. The only good thing to come of this wretched pandemic is this year the little buggers won’t be appearing at my front door!
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October 31, 2021 9:40am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  I took some around to my immediate neighbours children this morn and left them on the front door.
  
  I don’t agree with Halloween but I like to see happy kids, rotting teeth, type two diabetes perhaps, touch of obesity maybe but, happy with it!
  
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  October 31, 2021 2:57pm
Clownworld

Imagine the panic when it hits 1000 plus a day.
As long as they give up lockdowns , scrap the infantile restrictions etc.

I know I’m dreaming, the dystopic experts say in stuffed today…
“When will NZ approve v for children 5 to 11”
The pink blm social justice hypocrite pink haired one mentioned when children could safely return to school st some point as long as all adults vaccinated and rooms ventilated and hey wear masks.

Naturally the formulation is different from adult doses in quantity and unsure what the difference in contents is, and needs Pfizer to inform NZ and Medsafe and then be ordered.

Given the way things work,the media tell us as the govt instructs them using their expert influencers.

So looks like more delays , confusing restrictions and more dystopic over the top responses.
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October 31, 2021 9:41am
shadylady

Hey Andrew, Mate! We have half an hour to kill on Sunday’s Q and A. Send us a list of questions you’d like to cover and we’ll have a show! Xox.
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October 31, 2021 9:42am
- Herodotus
  
  He still failed in his attempt as to why senior govt ministers/PM could not make it to Auckland
  “There are restrictions in place into getting into and out of Auckland”, and then “its about not looking like swanning in and out and our life carries on..”. Perhaps senior ministers/PM don’t want to hear and see what you would would be confronted with reality, unless any visit is managed by a PR/Brand manager so it would be a sterile clean visit. Or for the PM to transfer out of Auckland on her way to the Northern Hemisphere for some pre planned but unannounced trip ??
  
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  October 31, 2021 10:53am
Yvette

“I want to thank my parents for not letting me pick my gender while I was still eating crayons, glue, boogers and cat food.”

Who will give informed consent for a child to be vaccinated – especially if a parent or guardian has made the decision herself or himself to not be vaccinated?
JAFAF
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October 31, 2021 9:44am
hullkiwi

The world of the new normal, doent seem to be any different to the old normal. This weekend and next week is 6 days of the world’s politicians getting their dosage of junket conference talk shops, gala dinners, lavish accommodation and junket travel.

First this weekend is a 2 day conference in Rome for the G20 and associated hanger ons (the EU amongst others). The G20 will talk about the international corporate tax regime for their multinationals, Iran & its nuclear arrangements, and COP 26 arrangements. These political leaders will suffer a lavish gala dinner on Saturday night after a heavy day of discussion on Saturday. sarc//
Then there is another day of chin wagging on Sunday. When the conference ends, all these hard worked politicians will not head home. No, they get on their planes and fly in their state provided jets and fly to Glasgow, where they will suffer being accommodated at the Gleneagles Hotel, and chauffeured around in Tesla cars (which are being powered by electricity generated by diesel generators). This all they can chin wag at the COP26 climate conference in Glasgow.

All to achieve, (in words of that world leading advocate on climate change Greta Thunderberg), more blah, blah…..

All this will be overseen by our top climate expert James Shaw……

Given for the past 18 months (like many Kiwis, my new normal has been working from home, doing MS Teams meetings etc.), I’m just so happy that the world’s politicians are adapting to the new normals of our world with such relish. Sarc////.
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October 31, 2021 9:55am
thirteenstars

Halloween is cancelled in many places, no doubt.

But that child-friendly celebration of frights and giggles is infinitely preferable to the real life horror show of endless lockdowns, government diktats and National ID-cum-vaxpass.
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October 31, 2021 10:02am
oldfella

Powerline’s Week In Pictures. “Brandon’s Halloween Edition” (for those who love US politics and real political cartooning).
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/10/the-week-in-pictures-brandons-halloween-edition.php
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October 31, 2021 10:19am
- thirteenstars
  
  And many of those pics could be real or very close to it. When satire meets reality you know you’re in trouble.
  
  But at least he’s not Trump, right? Phew, dodged a bullet there…
  
  Build back Brandon.
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:42am
- Vory v zakone
  
  #LGB Lensko
  ‘I try not to tweet on the weekends, but this is just spectacular.’
  
  https://twitter.com/RubinReport/status/1454478855167614984?t=XBmlCSpTJ02s7u4frXP-yw&s=19
  
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  October 31, 2021 4:42pm
Chuck Bird

FYI

The Covid Enigma

Posted on October 24, 2021
By Emeritus Professor Robert Clancy AM

https://www.nzcpr.com/robert-clancy-the-covid-enigma/#more-35829
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October 31, 2021 10:29am
- Spoff
  
  8 prominent doctors & scientists talk treatment:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IeVy7jQoz0
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:01am
- Reid
  
  Excellent article Chuck. Now watch fake news completely ignore it.
  
  AMAZING when you think here is the total solution to Covid, here it is, right here. And it means no more lockdowns, no need to push for the vax, total back to normal, in, if India is any gauge, around 15 days.
  
  And fake news will completely ignore it. When Trump says fake news is the enemy of the people, is he right or is he right.
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:01am
- mawm
  
  That should be compulsory reading for all involved in the covid mismanagement that has paralysed the world. The Nebraska Attorney General’s ruling on the use of IVM by doctors is also a very informative read.
  https://ago.nebraska.gov/sites/ago.nebraska.gov/files/docs/opinions/21-017_0.pdf
  I see our government has spent 100’s of 1000’s on Molnupiravir even before the trials are completed. What a waste!
  
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  October 31, 2021 2:16pm
Maggie Pie

Found this fascinating. A bestie from tennis was telling us she’s a friend of Bevan Chuang from back in the days when they both worked at the Auckland Council.

We could hardly believe it when she said Bevan maintains, “….that a lot of Chinese residents are saying Maori and Pasifika communities are waiting for Jacinda to give them HOUSES before they get vaxxed!”

Anyway, she just sent this link from earlier in the month and sure enough….

https://twitter.com/MsBevanChuang/status/1446321618175684609
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October 31, 2021 10:29am
- mikenmildagain
  
  It must be very entertaining to hear the stories exchanged at the Otahuhu Tennis Club. Please tell us more.
  
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  October 31, 2021 10:37am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Is there a woman in your life, Internet-Man?
    
    LOL!!
    
    21 4
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    October 31, 2021 10:59am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I have explained before, many times, that Kiwiblog is not a safe forum for the exchange of personal information. I enjoy your tales of the high life in and around the narrow neck of the isthmus, but sadly I cannot reciprocate with any details of life in my own slice of paradise.
      
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      October 31, 2021 11:03am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        And fair enough too, milkey!
        
        Honestly, sometimes I even shock myself with some of the smart stuff I say and do.
        Then, there are times when I try to get out of the Porsche with my seatbelt on 😀
        
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        October 31, 2021 11:57am
      - All_on_Red
        
        I don’t know for sure but having read Mikey’s comments for over a decade I would hazard a guess he’s an old queen who’s retired from the public service and lives in his mums house in Lower Hutt.
        Just a guess.
        
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        October 31, 2021 12:40pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It takes quite an effort to make Maggie Pie’s comments read as witty and astute in comparison, but All_on_Red has risen to the challenge.
        
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        October 31, 2021 1:33pm
  - Flossie
    
    So childish.
    
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    October 31, 2021 11:20am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Not at all. I enjoy her tales.
      
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      October 31, 2021 1:44pm
      - Flossie
        
        You know full well of course my comment refers to you.
        
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        October 31, 2021 3:00pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, after hearing Biden’s latest brain fart about compensating illegal immigrants because their estrangement from families is hurty to their feelings..well this believable then. As an aside, this madness is losing Dems untold numbers of followers.
  
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  October 31, 2021 10:59am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  Wow, interesting Maggie. It seems that Bevan is still in the habit of laying it all out on the table, isn’t she.
  
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  October 31, 2021 1:47pm
Ed Snack

A little non-Covid amusement.

It seems that Joe Biden had an unusually long meeting in the Vatican, apparently the meeting with the Pope was interrupted as Joe had an unfortunate accident that needed time to clean up. What sort of accident, well, depends I guess.

But did lead to the comment “Is the poop a Catholic !”
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October 31, 2021 10:31am
- mawm
  
  You of course know that “depends” is an American brand of adult incontinence underwear.
  
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  October 31, 2021 2:22pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    As worn by two of the last two presidents.
    
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    October 31, 2021 7:12pm
Jack5

Red Radio is nibbling at the Concert Programme again.

A year or more ago, there was an uproar, including from Helen Clark, when Maorified Radio NZ planned to turn the Concert Programme into a hip-hop or similar channel for young Maori and Pacific Islanders. Radio NZ backed down.

But last night on the Concert Programme was kapa haka. Some pleasant songs, but then the foot-stomping and chants of kapa haka, and a person talking of someone translating Shakespeare’s sonnets into Maori.

The State-funded 20 or 21 tribal radio stations will also broadcast Bach, Vivaldi? In the coming Ice Age.

Classical music isn’t Western music. Current composers come from countries including Vietnam, Japan, Iran, the Philippines, China, Latin America, Turkey, India, Russia … It’s world music.

Later in the night I flicked through the TV, and on the second free Maori channel was a visually well made piece promoting Ngapuhi, with scenes of colonial battles. Then it included a warrior with a club killing a helpless, wounded British soldier, and apparently enjoying the atrocity.

Racial separatism is being strongly fostered, and it’s being financed by taxpayer money.
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October 31, 2021 10:39am
- mikenmildagain
  
  You are a hard man to please, Jack. I can easily imagine you getting equally upset if the programme in question had depicted a British soldier enjoyably bayoneting a wounded Ngāpuhi warrior.
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:07am
  - Jack5
    
    Not upset, Milky, disgusted.
    
    I see you’re using macrons, Milky. You’ll be having words, then, with your local coffee spot to get its name’s spelling changed to café.
    
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    October 31, 2021 11:15am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You would be disgusted be either scene? It’s getting a bit hard to see the limits of your rage, let alone speculate on it cause.
      FYI, I would never presume to tell a business owner what to call their business. I might point out the misuse of an apostrophe in Joe’s Barber’s, for example, but I really can’t imagine myself presuming to suggest that the proprietor worry about accents (acute or grave), umlauts, macrons or circumflexes.
      The main requirements for a cafe are location, accessibility, friendly staff, cleanliness, edible food, newspapers or magazines, and a range of beverages. Fixating on the establishment’s name might veer into the irrelevant, or even obsessive.
      
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      October 31, 2021 11:59am
      - Jack5
        
        Milky, you use the diacritical marks – macrons – of one linguistically unrelated language in your English, but reject the use of French diacritical marks in your English. Very inconsistent.
        
        The Milky rundown on the marketing requirements of a cafe is interesting, but unorthodox in rejecting the importance of name in brand value. There are people who make a living by creating brand names.
        
        If you owned a Bully Hayes bar in Wellington, Milky, you would not change its name in the face of pressure from the Woke?
        
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        October 31, 2021 2:02pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        You make some interesting points, Jack, as usual.
        Funnily enough, I am not very fussy about using diacritical marks when writing comments on Kiwiblog. This might come as news to you, but Kiwiblog is not exactly renowned for consistent usage, grammar, spelling or punctuation in its comments threads, or even in its posts. I would be much more consistent and particular in a situation where I am paid to write, rather than doing it for amusement.
        As for your hypothetical – yes, if I were the owner of a ‘Bully Hayes’ bar in Wellington I would change its name. Not because of pressure from the ‘woke’ – whatever that means – but because I am perfectly able to come up with a name for myself suitable for the bar, its theme, and location. Also, quite relevantly, it is highly unlikely that such a sophisticated city as Wellington would have something so crass and unimaginative as a ‘Bully Hayes’ bar in the first place. Sounds like the sort of name that would only be chosen in places like Hamilton or Christchurch.
        
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        October 31, 2021 7:10pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        … it is highly unlikely that such a sophisticated city as Wellington would have something so crass and unimaginative as a ‘Bully Hayes’ bar in the first place
        
        I recall that the Vietnamese restaurant on Lambton Quay Where’s Charlie has caused a few wrinkled noses among the Lefterati here on Kiwiblog.
        
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        October 31, 2021 11:57pm
Reid

Undeniable proof IVM works and works well.

Bloomfield was lying when he said there are no studies on its effectiveness, there are many. And here’s the real world proof. Also look at Japan, which also uses IVM.

The cure is out there, they don’t want you to know about it. They want to kill you. Think about that.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/10/update-71-75-districts-uttar-pradesh-india-reported-no-covid-19-cases-24-hours-implementing-ivermectin-protocol/?ff_source=Gab&ff_campaign=websitesharingbuttons
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October 31, 2021 10:42am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Who are ‘they’, Reid? Sheeple need to know.
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:08am
  - Reid
    
    Ultimately, the twelve families who run the Chinese Communist Party for this particular Covid wing of the operation, mm.
    
    Crikey mate, don’t you know anything about what’s going on? Do you seriously think that what’s going on all round the world is a perfectly normal response to a dreadful pandemic? Do you really seriously believe every govt round the world is truly doing their level best to bring their citizens through all of this with the least damage physically and economically and emotionally? Of course you don’t think that. I think you know something’s wrong but you don’t want to admit it, to yourself, because then you have recalculate all of your assumptions about how the world really works, and you’re not yet at the point where you want to do, it’s easier to pretend in a year or two all this will be in the rear view mirror.
    
    You do of course appreciate your position is really dangerous to yourself and your loved ones. If you know what’s going on you can predict what’s coming and take steps to prepare. And in these times having that understanding could be the difference between escaping from or suffering calamity, and I’m not kidding.
    
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    October 31, 2021 11:42am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I have truly missed your apocalyptic nonsense, Reid. Could you please also bring back nasska, Johnboy, D4J and Ugly Truth so we can get some proper amusement?
      
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      October 31, 2021 12:33pm
      - Reid
        
        Unfortunately for you mike, it’s not nonsense, and it never was, as more and more people are now waking up and seeing, as it directly affects their lives. How many other “theories” actually bring things about in the real world and still gets called a theory?
        
        Actual real demonstrably provable real things that affect us all like their suppression of IVM which could end the whole lockdown/vax regime in 15 days and Ed’s link above from that Aus prof spells it all out from Australia bvut same thing is being done here by Bloomfield. And all provable, just look at the results from countries that used it. Look at the before and after case rates, hospitalisations, deaths all plummet in the weeks after introducing it.
        
        Reality is smacking everyone in the face mike. It’ll keep doing that with ever increasing ferocity, so if I was you, I’d take action to get out of the way.
        
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        October 31, 2021 1:21pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Can you please explain for me the particular gifts that you possess that enable you to see the whole truth?
        Also, I get that there are ‘twelve families who run the Chinese Communist Party for this particular Covid wing of the operation’, but could you help me out with a summary of ‘the operation’?
        
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        October 31, 2021 1:48pm
      - Reid
        
        Certainly mike, it’s called an open mind. That’s all you need.
        
        With respect to “the operation,” people with open minds figure it out for themselves in no time at all, so I’m sure you can as well, once you get around to organising the prerequisite in yourself.
        
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        October 31, 2021 2:47pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I really do think I need someone to explain the meaning of ‘organising the prerequisite’.
        
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        October 31, 2021 6:53pm
      - Reid
        
        That’s because only someone with an open mind is capable of clearly seeing the obvious nature of what I’m suggesting, mike.
        
        Hmm…
        
        It’s quite the dilemma, isn’t it.
        
        Poor you. I am sorry.
        
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        October 31, 2021 7:32pm
  - dcrane
    
    The compliance cult, Mike.
    
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    October 31, 2021 12:25pm
- MCos
  
  Does Gateway Pundit have undeniable proof that Elvis is still alive?
  I wouldn’t be surprised.
  https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/no-evidence-suggests-a-causal-link-between-ivermectin-recommendation-and-the-decline-of-covid-19-cases-in-the-indian-state-of-uttar-pradesh/
  
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  October 31, 2021 12:45pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Wake up, MCos – those petty conspiracy theories about Elvis, JFK and the moon landings, etc are just to distract the sheeple from what is really happening.
    
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    October 31, 2021 12:59pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    That’s a complete bullshit site though, health feedback. Has to be paid disinformation.
    
    Makes unsubstantiated claims itself, just for their information, vaccination is highly unlikely to have contributed to Uttar Pradesh’s reduction in cases as they currently claim a vaccination rate around 5%. Natural immunity, maybe a help but would imply that 75-80% of the population have already had Covid, might be true but seems unsubstantiated.
    
    One issue is that Covid appears to come and go in waves, the pattern is pretty consistently observed worldwide. And I think it fair to say that this pattern is not well understood; that is Covid can surge and nothing seems to stop it, then it will suddenly taper off, again not in synchrony with specific actions. And as a recent study found, Covid incidence seems to be statistically unrelated to vaccination percentages.
    
    Given the obvious unknowns, the Uttar Pradesh and Delhi significant drop in Covid cases could well be unconnected to the specific programs those places took in response to a Covid surge. Even the fact that the neighbouring state of Kerala (so pretty similar climate and conditions) which did NOT use prophylactic treatments and instead focussed on vaccination has an ongoing significant case load; is not specific evidence for the UP and Delhi programs.
    
    However the outcome is suggestive of an effect and, just IMHO, should be seriously investigated, by NZ at least. It would be relatively easy to find out if the UP government was simply bodging the figures to make it look like the incidence had dropped, cases can possibly be covered up but serious outcomes would surely be relatively apparent, and if the case load is high so are the serious outcomes. And if the numbers are real that doesn’t prove that the treatments worked, but is reasonably strong evidence that it is possible.
    
    So then why not run a small case study in NZ ? For every case identified (excluding those who turn up seriously ill as the UP protocol wasn’t intended to deal with the serious lung and cardiac injury phase) give them randomly (maybe be a bit sophisticated and match the two arms, and also check for contraindications though here are few for any of the drugs in MATH ) one of two treatment packs. One pack has the MATH standard drugs, the other is only placebos. In around 2-3 weeks enough data would be available to see if there was a statistically significant difference in outcomes.
    
    Why, because if it makes a difference, this would be by far the easiest and cheapest way for NZ to help manage the hospital demand issue. The drugs are all dirt cheap and widely available, and none are normally dangerous all.
    
    So why is there such a stubborn insistence that this cannot work, why are people so wedded to the idea that only vaccines or other expensive big Pharma products can help ? I mean, NZ has approved an apparently has used Remdesvir – that cost up to $10K (NZ) per patient and the clinical tests showed it had zero, yes zero, actual impact on outcomes. So why is that approved ? And we don’t use the Regeneron monoclonal antibody treatment, also expensive but demonstrated be effective and especially with seriously ill patients.
    
    The whole medical bureaucracy seems mired in what looks like a pay for play situation. Deliberately downplaying potential cheap treatments that seem to offer some advantage, and get all in with expensive ones that are demonstrated to be useless. And sold on virtue signalling idiocies like masks.
    
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    October 31, 2021 3:11pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It is just lucky, I guess, that your information sources would never indulge in anything like ‘pay for play’.
      
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      October 31, 2021 6:56pm
- -D
  
  Here’s an excellent rundown by medical professional published by NZCPR:
  https://www.nzcpr.com/robert-clancy-the-covid-enigma/
  
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  October 31, 2021 6:25pm
surfing

Health Minister Andrew Little says large numbers of unvaccinated people getting Covid-19 will put pressure on our health system, leading to planned surgeries being cut.

Hmm, is there another Andrew little in NZ? The Andrew little on the radio last week said the government has managed the health system perfectly and we have plenty of beds because the government has done a tremendous job increasing capacity.

This new Andrew little is singing a different tune from the first.
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October 31, 2021 10:46am
- Tony Stuart
  
  The Andrew Little mentioned above will blame the previous government for the parlous state of the health system. It hasn’t occurred to him however that he was part of the previous government, the Labour/NZF government!
  
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  October 31, 2021 10:51am
- Stu2
  
  I thought he was clear and realistic this time around. And a vast advance on Jacinda who annoys the hell out of me, and would never have spoken that clearly about the possible consequences for the health system.
  
  The lead in story had warning bells all over it – a family infected and isolating at home and as the number have gone up to 600 (?) I think it was:
  – the routine daily monitoring calls have dropped off
  – promises were made about getting their kids tested when they became ill, and nothing happened for days over the holiday weekend
  – we could easily double the isolated at home cases. How will the system cope?
  – what if they treble?
  – public health is a limitation along with ICU staff and beds
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:11am
- krazykiwi
  
  Andrew Little, Hansard, 22nd September
  
  Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I’m not sure where that member gets his figures from, and it doesn’t accord with figures I have received. Right now we have about 240-odd ICU beds available throughout the hospital network in New Zealand. That can be very quickly stepped up to about 326 beds, and with a little bit of extra effort can be surge stepped up to 550 beds. I’m confident that we can have ICU cover to meet any surge outbreak in COVID should that arise
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:42pm
Fletch

Outbreak at a gym in Sydney which only accepted vaccinated. Fifteen cases. And they were following all the rules and guidelines.

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/coronavirus/sydney-gym-owner-in-complete-shock-after-more-than-a-dozen-fitness-lovers-test-positive-to-covid19/news-story/0886663bb2896cf53e36a2d8b09f304a
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October 31, 2021 10:59am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Its Origin and Purpose Still a Total Mystery
  
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  October 31, 2021 12:26pm
ABS4EVA

While it is still LEGAL to

Discuss – Ethics

Because these discussion will soon be censored
under the dishonest lie of Hate Speech.

Any MEDICAL MANDATE is
Illegal and
Unethical

This has nothing to do with Vaccination
or the efficacy of any Vaccine

and “They May have it right”
….”This time”

It is the Fact they may have it wrong
Completely Wrong Next time

This process now enshrined has too many flaws.

The introduction of an administration of Medicine
is now PURELY POLITICAL.

If you look at the Other
Political Mandates enforced and implemented

Trees
Houses
Poverty
Crime

etc etc

If they can’t manage that for a positive outcome

Why in Hell would you accept their
Methodologies

Regards

HEALTH

There is a thing call the

Nuremberg code

It exists for GOOD REASON

When certain Socialist individuals or cliques
are given too much power
and

SELF APPOINTED AUTHORITY

It ends up as a GLOBAL DISASTER

Looking around esp at NZ
not much has been learned from
HISTORICAL MISTAKES and
Mis fortune

and some will have to learn these lessons
the hard way and

GOD help them all
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October 31, 2021 11:08am
Spoff

Two questions for the pushers.
What is the most important factor in assessing the need for Covid action – the number of cases or the number of fatalities?
What is the Infected Fatality Rate of Covid Delta?
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October 31, 2021 11:09am
- Aquataur
  
  Well a good guide might be the Case Fatality Rate in Auckland’s outbreak so far is 1 in about 3,000. I’m not counting the 91 yr old at death’s door as a Covid fatality. Accept that there might be another death from those already in hospital – so CFR = 1 in 1500.
  
  The infected fatality rate must be (much) lower still, as not infected present as cases. Including those vaccinated folk who get infected and don’t know it suggests the IFR could well be 1 in 4,000 or more
  1 in 4000 – 0.025% which is where the Googl searches places it
  
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  October 31, 2021 1:18pm
  - Spoff
    
    Yes. Christian Peronne, France’s Vaccine chief for 20 years puts it at .015.
    Getting into the range of the common cold.
    
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    October 31, 2021 2:12pm
Benedict Yu

The good news is that the vaccine certify.icate will not be called the “Vaccine Certificate”. No chance of that. ? Word is that there is a working group searching for the right name. A Maori name. There will be no English translation.

My tip.

“Kaitiaki o te atawhai”

You think I’m kidding? ?
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October 31, 2021 11:09am
- Stu2
  
  Should be self explanatory then when you drag it out at LAX. Genius
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:18am
- graham
  
  You think I’m kidding?
  
  Sadly, no I don’t.
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:25am
- Taieri
  
  “Kaitiaki o te atawhai”
  —————
  
  Simply wonderful. I like it already. Not that know what it means. Or have any intention of using it unless absolutely unavoidable.
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:31am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It kind of translates to “guardian of the kindness”.
    
    So the vaccine certificate stops us all getting sick and guards the kindness we have all developed during the pandemic.
    
    How do you feel? ????
    
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    October 31, 2021 1:20pm
    - Taieri
      
      Kinder with every second.
      
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      October 31, 2021 3:28pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  Oh, spear me!
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:33am
- Nickc2
  
  If they are to be an Independent Maori Institute, I hope they aren’t paid for by the Non-Maori taxpayer.
  However, I fear they will be funded by Non-Maori taxpayers forever unless some brave Govt says “Enough is Enough” and cancels the damned thing.
  Unfortunately, there’s no such Govt on the horizon as yet.
  All this and Mahuta has the cheek to install her sister as the CEO of this new rort and insist it’s not nepotism.
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:55am
- ABS4EVA
  
  Can we call it by my favorite Te Reo word
  
  whakapohane
  
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  November 1, 2021 1:38am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Here’s and idea for Labour to buy even more votes. It is only money.
https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/fresno-fighting-rising-murder-rate-with-program-to-mentor-likely-shooters/?
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October 31, 2021 11:18am
Jack5

More State moulding of the news media, with taxpayer funds, of course.

The Woke are busy beavers remoulding NZ from top down:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018818338/te-rito-a-new-bid-to-boost-diversity-in-our-newsrooms
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October 31, 2021 11:30am
- Nickc2
  
  Nationalizing the News Media eh? Who would have guessed?
  In any other country, people would be protesting and marching in the streets, but not in lil-olde-NZ, arrests would follow if they did.
  
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  October 31, 2021 12:03pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Media headlines:. Police threaten to arrest protesters.
    
    When did police threatening citizens become acceptable? They are there to do their job, not to threaten people.
    
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    October 31, 2021 1:27pm
- I remember when
  
  They could start with political leaning diversity.
  Then move to experienced reporters without, at least obvious, personal opinions.
  
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  October 31, 2021 12:21pm
rouppe

In Tairawhiti they’re actually taking magnets to meetings in order to disprove that the Pfizer jab makes you magnetic.

Oh. My. God.
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October 31, 2021 11:40am
- Reid
  
  So one of the things they do in the propaganda world if they want to distract people from looking into something, is to heavily promote through their media channels some aspect of it that is palpably ridiculous. This is so that they can then conflate the palpably ridiculous claim in people’s heads if a real and demonstrably provable issue emerges, and then they can pretend the real issue is just like the ridiculous one so people shouldn’t even bother looking into it. This happens all the time when someone is using propaganda on a population.
  
  Luckily of course our own media is so very far from being a propaganda channel as to make it entirely impossible for anything of the sort to ever play out here. I mean just look how objective they are with their 3 waters coverage. For example.
  
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  October 31, 2021 12:15pm
- mawm
  
  Japan tested some of the Moderna vials and found magnetic particles. They concluded that they were contamination during manufacturing, the vials were withdrawn and the manufacturers have agreed to improve their quality.
  
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  October 31, 2021 2:33pm
  - ABS4EVA
    
    They also pre ordered NOVAVAX
    
    to the Tune of 150 million
    
    https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/japan-purchase-150-mln-doses-takeda-produced-novavax-vaccines-drugmaker-2021-09-07/
    
    Novavax files for its first COVID-19 vaccine authorization in UK
    
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/novavax-files-for-covid-19-vaccine-authorization-in-uk-124809823.html
    
    Could the Vaccine Mandates be about
    getting as much Pfizer out the door before
    it is replace by something better?
    
    Come On Come
    
    Come on, come on, listen to the moneytalk
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lqdErI9uss
    
    The claim is on you
    The sights are on me
    So what do you do
    That’s guaranteed
    
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    November 1, 2021 1:46am
JibberJabber

L! G! B!
https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1454209277740998658

? ?
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October 31, 2021 11:55am
Reid

Fans of General Michael Flynn: full length interview with Tucker Carlson…

https://rumble.com/vnmp3d-general-michael-flynn-latest-interview-with-tucker-carlson-framing-michael-.html
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October 31, 2021 12:10pm
I remember when

Do Wellington City Councillors consider that they have spare capacity of 7% when doing their jobs.
Obviously that must be the case, as they consider they must pay themselves for the extra work they think the retirement of their fellow councillor will cause them.
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October 31, 2021 12:14pm
I remember when

The Edmonton Meadows Retirement Village outbreak will help prove, or at least give an indication of, the benefits of covid vaccination.
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October 31, 2021 12:17pm
- Reid
  
  Prepare to be disappointed.
  
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  October 31, 2021 12:29pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  It already seems to disprove Baker’s claims the other day that vaccination protects against getting and spreading the infection by a large factor.
  
  No comment on that in our media though.
  
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  October 31, 2021 1:23pm
  - Stu2
    
    Their doses could be 6 months old, with far lessened infection protection
    
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    October 31, 2021 1:54pm
I remember when

Why is it impossible to fix our current ‘3 Waters’ problems for the same amount as it will cost for a Government SOE to do the work.
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October 31, 2021 12:28pm
Wayne Mapp

Kiwiblog’s daily General debate now has a very large number of posts from the usual crowd of antivaxers. Benedict does a stirling job rebutting many of the antivax arguments. However, the “discussion” has become rather old and tired with the same points being endlessly made. It also takes a while to wade past it all.

I reckon General Debate would be improved if there was a seperate daily post headed Covid, so that General Debate could be reserved for matters other than covid.
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October 31, 2021 12:57pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I think that DPF may be reluctant. He would be accused (without foundation) of providing a dedicated forum for anti vaxxers. That is how the media would report it.
  
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  October 31, 2021 1:24pm
- dcrane
  
  Sick of people using the term “antivaxer” to smear everyone who in any way questions the government orthodoxy on any of the vaccines, their application, or mandates involving their use.
  
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  October 31, 2021 1:26pm
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Not all those who oppose, for instance, mandates are antivaxers. There are civil liberty arguments which should at least restrict the use of mandates.
    
    However, there are quite a number of posters on Kiwiblog who are very clearly within the antivaxer category, and comments by this group has grown. As a consequence people who support covid vaccination (clearly the majority of the population, even on the centre-right) tend not to post their views on vaccination on Kiwiblog as a result of the pile on that occurs.
    
    I supported 90% as the target, pretty much from the get go. I believe the epidemiological arguments support 90% and that the target was achievable. Saying so on Kiwiblog resulted in a huge pile on. As is now clear, the 90% is being achieved, though it will be harder in some smaller DHB’s. New Zealand will benefit from having the 90% target. There will be fewer deaths or hospitalisations compared to those nations with lower vaccine targets. For instance the US and the UK.
    
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    October 31, 2021 2:30pm
    - Reid
      
      But data from vaxed populations ahead of us on the vax curve ALL repeat ALL show nothing of the sort is happening, Wayne.
      
      Start with Israel, every other country shows the same thing: highly vaxed populations ALL have high and climbing case rates, hospitalisations and deaths amongst the vaxed.
      
      That’s what the data, the science, and the evidence says Wayne, and you can see it for yourself in any covid dataset in the world which shows the numbers before vax and after vax.
      
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      October 31, 2021 3:02pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        The evidence? Bah! That is too hard for Wayne and his ilk. Much easier to boisterously throw the term ‘anti-vaxxer’ around a bit, before shuffling off to try and remember what one stands for. And even that’s too difficult.
        
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        October 31, 2021 11:31pm
    - dcrane
      
      But 90% is being achieved in part thorugh coercion. Threats to future employment and freedom to move in society. A terrible precedent.
      
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      October 31, 2021 3:06pm
      - Harriet
        
        Yep – offending them and then they retaliate by not getting vaxed – the target won’t be meet and she remains in charge with a traffic light system.
        
        But she’s opening the border tomorrow. And all hell will break lose if she closes it or fucks people’s travel plans about, and to the point where people don’t book.
        
        Expect a snap election around wedding day. 😎
        
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        October 31, 2021 8:10pm
    - NoFax
      
      As I see it the vast majority of NZers support the vaccine. It’s clear that Auckland DHB will hit 90% double dose vaccine very shortly and Waitamata and Manukau probably not far behind. However, I suspect Northland and Gisborne will never reach that level.
      It seems that there are actually few genuine anti vaxers in NZ. Again look at the numbers, it appears the resistence is from more traditional left wing areas so I don’t think many KBers agree with these guys.
      I have been very critical of this government. The logic around the vaccine is baffling. However, as I have been double dosed, the vaccine is doing what it has been advertised to do – reduce the severity of Covid.
      I’ve been in agreement with Benedict on his analysis and has done a far better job than any one in government.
      I have seen one or two anti vaxers here but must seem to be anti mandates, anti lockdowns, and anti tyranny. However I’m prepared to stand corrected – are there genuine anti vaxers here? As in, it’s harmful to take it or there is some plot against us?
      
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      October 31, 2021 3:22pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      TBH Wayne if the 90 percent is achieved it will only be because people realise that their lives will be impossible without vaccination.
      
      IIRC I was one of those who told you that 90 percent would not be achieved. But at the time I did not realise that the Government would lock the unvaccinated out of society.
      
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      October 31, 2021 3:59pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      But I otherwise agree with you. Even today someone posted that “the vaccine compromises the immune system”. That is nonsense but these claims continue to circulate.
      
      I could write about what factors give rise to antivaxxers but the tall redhead is calling me to beer time ?
      
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      October 31, 2021 4:02pm
      - Reid
        
        Look at immune panel tests in people before and after first and second jab Benedict. Do a couple on yourself a month or so apart if you’ve been vaxed, see what it says.
        
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        October 31, 2021 7:44pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Look at immune panel tests”.. I don’t know what that means.
        
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        October 31, 2021 8:51pm
      - Reid
        
        Ask your GP for one.
        
        Crikey. I thought you knew what you were talking about, from Wayne’s rave.
        
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        October 31, 2021 9:16pm
      - Reid
        
        Mods, the reason I reported my own comment is because I wish to withdraw the second sentence after the edit window has expired. I believe Benedict to be mistaken but nevertheless sincere, and I don’t wish to cast aspersion and regret putting it in.
        
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        October 31, 2021 9:28pm
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      “However, there are quite a number of posters on Kiwiblog who are very clearly within the antivaxer category, and comments by this group has grown. As a consequence people who support covid vaccination (clearly the majority of the population, even on the centre-right) tend not to post their views on vaccination on Kiwiblog as a result of the pile on that occurs.”
      
      Could it be that the former class of comments and commenters has grown, while the latter class has concomitantly diminished, simply due to the fact that the former variety has gained evermore credibility and argumentative force as events have progressed, as their predictions have eventuated, and as contradictions and internal logical inconsistencies in official narratives have been exposed, in direct proportion and in relation to the latter “side’s” declining argumentative coherence and unsustainability on the basis of the available facts?
      
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      October 31, 2021 5:03pm
- Reid
  
  “Benedict does a stirling job rebutting many of the antivax arguments.”
  
  Let’s hope Benedict does an equally sterling job when he tries to explain the datasets all round the world in countries that have used IVM which all reflect amazing drops in case rates, hospitalisations, deaths after introducing it. Whereas the vax in those very same countries wasn’t helping those numbers at all, until IVM came along.
  
  I wonder how Benedict intends to explain that? Perhaps he’ll pretend the data doesn’t show that. Who knows. Over to you, Benedict.
  
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  October 31, 2021 1:42pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I presume IVM equals ivermectin.
    
    If so you will recall that I have reported a number of studies that point to positive therapeutic outcomes. Like this one.
    
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/
    
    I have also commented that there is no interest in ivermectin because there is no money in it.
    
    There is a limited time I devote to reading about all things COVID. Your comment infers that I have been silent on ivermectin. Which is incorrect.
    
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    October 31, 2021 2:29pm
    - Reid
      
      Do you find it at all peculiar how the media is suppressing any positive discussion of it, given that we should be pursuing everything that looked promising? What is your take on/how do you explain this myopic focus on vax is the only repeat only repeat only solution when clearly, evidence says that it’s not?
      
      Does any of that look like propaganda to you?
      
      Do you think anything like what this Aussie professor is describing as the situation re: IVM suppression and intimidation through the medical councils etc, is happening here?
      
      Hat tip to Chuck for this link from earlier today.
      https://www.nzcpr.com/robert-clancy-the-covid-enigma/#more-35829
      
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      October 31, 2021 2:58pm
- Observer of Life
  
  Wayne: You know you don’t have to actually read anything on Kiwiblog ay?
  
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  October 31, 2021 3:13pm
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  When did Benedict debunk an antivaxxer? If by ‘debunk’ you mean quietly come to accept the majority of the propositions consistently advanced by said antivaxxers as and when they became unassailable, in light of experience and in the fullness of time, then, yes, Benedict is a debunker without peer.
  
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  October 31, 2021 4:48pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yeah you lost me ??
    
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    October 31, 2021 8:54pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Many pro vaxers do not comment – … [deleted].
  Shit stirrer Mapp
  
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  October 31, 2021 5:47pm
Sacha

I had an interesting communication on my FB page last night.
It was from a company in Palmerston North offering me the opportunity to take part in a Winter Wellness programme over the winter (obviously), and I thought that that would be a Good Thing to do and quite interesting.
So I clicked the link and and poked around a bit and found that the company’s client was Pfizer.
Huh? Sounds like a drug trial to me, and would I trust Pfizer’s ethics?
The other thing that interested me was this: where did the company get my name from? They must know that I am not vaccinated – and the only way would be to have access to records via the local hospital.
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October 31, 2021 1:21pm
- MCos
  
  If you’re as free with the info on Facebook as you are here all manner of people will soon find out.
  You know that don’t you.
  
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  October 31, 2021 9:52pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Without vax about 10000 (1 in 2000 seen in most countries) would have died, with 90% vax about 1-2000 will die, but at this point vax rates have slowed to about 0.2% per day, almost all in low risk young people, and the marginal reduction in deaths amongst newly vaxxed is probably only one or two a day, and trending to zero.

Meanwhile vaccine effectiveness is rapidly dropping by about 0.5% a day among already vaccinated oldies, which is in effect is costing 10’s of more deaths per day for every day that their exposure to Covid is delayed.

This very simple analysis shows that we are clearly long past the point where lockdowns are a net good, they are now killing far more than they will save, on top of the incredible economic and social damage they are doing. Time to let it go.

I’m in Auckland, and pretty much everyone I know is now ignoring lockdown except where they are forced to (shopping work). As a population it appears we’ve made peace with the coming uncontrolled spread, leaving only nutty left Karens and labour MP’s still holding on to the fantasy and wasting untold billions with their chokehold on peoples lives and incomes.

Sure they’ve entirely fucked up the incredible 18month window they were gifted to grow hospital capacity, but it’s too late to fix that now. We just have to live with the extra deaths that Labour’s incompetence has bought.
22 2
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October 31, 2021 1:22pm
- Reid
  
  Why do you cling to the supposition that the only way to get out of lockdown is via the vax? It’s nonsense.
  
  The vax doesn’t work, just look up Waterford Country in Ireland: vax rate 99.7%, highest covid case rate in Ireland.
  
  IVM does work, lookup Uttar Pradesh province in India, 250 million people, vax rate 5.4%, used IVM, now Covid has been eliminated in the population.
  
  Go figure.
  
  That’s the answer, clear, present, obvious, staring everyone in the face. If the authorities and their media lackeys refuse to recognise it, the people need to start demanding that they do.
  
  13 3
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  October 31, 2021 1:53pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Waterford is mind blowing. The experience there adds to the burgeoning evidence of these vaccines being net harmful. And my employer is about to mandate them. Utter madness.
    
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    October 31, 2021 11:20pm
Paulus

Have been sent an interesting article by Andrea Vance in which she transposes as to what will happen when Ardern goes – sooner than later.
The Labour Party are changing their rules again next week to give the Caucus more control of its leadership away from the Unions.
She rightly says that Robertson will not be at the future leader party – agreed, as he failed before.
But she felt that the next Labour Leader could be Michael Wood – a former Trade Unionist and friend of Claire Szabo. Can’t disagree,
but
Nanaia Mahuta has almost got all the numbers required and could be considered a very lightly contender – Female and Maori with strong Maori backing from Tainui and other tribes.
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October 31, 2021 1:32pm
- kowtow
  
  The comments are the best bit.
  
  Very anti Princess Jax.
  
  6 1
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  October 31, 2021 2:21pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Before 2017 I thought she was dead set useless achieved nothing in 20 years in Parliament. She is achieving things now. All bad.
  
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  October 31, 2021 2:33pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Indeed. I can’t think of one positive thing she’s done for New Zealand. Seriously. I can’t. It’s been a narcissistic wet dream for her, at out expense. When our kids look back they will ask “WTF were NZers thinking to vote her in?!?”
    
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    October 31, 2021 11:15pm
- Harriet
  
  “……Nanaia Mahuta has almost got all the numbers required and could be considered a very lightly contender ……”
  
  Around 2005 the NSW economy alone was 5 times that of NZ — if someone now said 30 times I wouldn’t be surprised. We have the covid situation and everything that entails. Then we have the China situation.
  
  The point is the days of Jacinda and Dan Andrews being the ‘Supreme Commanders of Socialism in the Pacific’ are long gone. They’re out numbered, out monied and out gunned. it’s that fucken simple!
  
  She is another lost cause for Labour, just like the other 89%.
  
  King maker, stabilizer and future is ACT. 😎
  
  2 1
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  October 31, 2021 3:13pm
- The Feed
  
  “lightly contender”
  
  Not a word I would have used….
  
  1 0
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  October 31, 2021 4:00pm
Nickc2

Biden tours Rome in an 85 vehicle motorcade before going to COP26.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/10/30/photos-biden-cruises-rome-with-85-car-motorcade-before-climate-summit/
Saving the planet eh Joe? Fucking hypocrite!
24 1
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October 31, 2021 1:42pm
- kowtow
  
  The Pope of Rome says Creepy Joe is a good Catholic though .
  
  Baby killer enabler a good Catholic , the world’s gone mad.
  
  2 2
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  October 31, 2021 2:22pm
- sooty
  
  Saving the planet, one motorcade at a time!
  
  4 0
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  October 31, 2021 3:02pm
- dcrane
  
  When a leader as illegitimate and disliked as Brandon (oops Biden) moves from place to place, many protective forces are needed, thus many vehicles.
  
  3 1
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  October 31, 2021 3:10pm
emmess

Just saw a link on BFD to this site

https://mediabias.co.nz/

Very interesting
1 0
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October 31, 2021 2:22pm
Maggie Pie

My partner:
“Be kind, you never know what someone is going through”

Also my partner:
“Nice turn signal….Fuck-Face!!”
8 4
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October 31, 2021 2:29pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Sounds like an arse hole.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:56pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

A post showing a plane towing a flag saying “stop 3 waters” has been censored on my Facebook. It came from NZ Taxpayers Union. Thought they may like to know that FB say it breaks community standards.
Labour, Jaspinda and Mahuta now got fact checkers on Facebook?
https://twitter.com/TaxpayersUnion/status/1454226536412811265?
24 1
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October 31, 2021 2:30pm
- Nickc2
  
  Yes, there was no/minimal mention of yesterday’s Akld protest on Prime News or TVNZ News last night. Bought and paid for TV reporting again.
  
  7 1
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  October 31, 2021 3:04pm
dcrane

NZ locations of interest site has only 4 places posted since the 28th. Giving up on contact tracing?

They haven’t even listed the “superspreader” at the Domain yesterday lol
5 0
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October 31, 2021 3:14pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Next year. Imagine standing in line for the 3rd time for something that did not work the 1st or 2nd time …..
14 2
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October 31, 2021 3:16pm
Truman lodge

Apparently if you oppose three waters you are a racist.
11 0
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October 31, 2021 3:23pm
dcrane

This is EXTREMELY disappointing.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/coronavirus-david-seymour-says-govt-should-skip-medsafe-process-and-approve-vaccine-for-kids.html

Look, maybe one out of a hundred thousand or so children have risks justifying this vaccine. But Seymour seems to be cheerleading mass vaccination for kids. That’s a crime in my view. Kids need to just get this virus naturally and get over it (as nearly all will, easily), not become subscribed to a lifetime dependence on Pfizer.
12 4
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October 31, 2021 3:27pm
- fernglas
  
  I have yet to hear a rational and ethical reason for vaccinating children. The chances of a child dying is about one in 2 million of population. Those children who die are all otherwise medically compromised, and even then, only about 50% have Covid listed as a cause of death; the other half simply tested positive at the time of death or thereabouts. The same proportionality applies to hospitalisations and “long covid” in kids has no scientific basis as yet and so is purely speculative. Vaccines don’t seem to prevent the spread of the virus, so, vaccinated or unvaccinated, kids seem to provide the same level of risk to the general population. Reading that article, it is clear that Michael Baker is happy to vaccinate kids because he has a belief that the vaccine will cause them no harm and may prevent the as yet unknown possibility of “long covid”. What about the as yet unknown long term effects of vaccination? Any respect I had for Seymour as a rational voice amongst all the nonsense being promoted by clowns like Baker has gone.
  
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  October 31, 2021 8:18pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Agreed. Seymour has left the evidence and truth zone, instead wandering into chase the votes zone. Pathetic.
  
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  October 31, 2021 11:07pm
Kiwi Dave

What a pleasure it was to read that a bill by Rachel Boyack has been drawn to force government agencies to use plain language in order to improve citizens’ full understanding and participation in our government.

If various agencies such as pirihimana, Kàinga Ora, Waka Kotahi, Te Tari Taake, and private organisations such as nupepa, can use plain kupu in their korero in Reo Pakeha, all our whanau, from rangatahi to kaumatua throughout the motu will participate more easily, fully and wisely in the kawanatanga o Aotearoa, thanks to this bill by a mema Paremata. Only fools would think otherwise.
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October 31, 2021 3:37pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Brilliant.
  
  1 1
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  October 31, 2021 11:03pm
Drone

I’m so over Covid so lets take a look at the CoP 26 conference, someone here has already pointed out the carbon footprint of the conference in terms of flights, vehicles etc. But following James Shaw’s presser today I feel it is actually time fro Governments around the world to front up and make some serious decisions around Climate change. I think (simplistically) there are two options and more than a few shades of grey.
Option 1: Abandon any pretence of trying to reduce emissions to keep warming under 1.5 C and start planning for major adaption, the pace of sea level rise will give a number of years before major cities are inundated. Hyperstorms well we can get used to them.

Option 2: Be honest with the multiple populations of the world and explain in simple words what now has to be done to save the planet (if they the people actually want to, maybe there could be a referendum). In major cities in NZ councils have been preparing for this option by commissioning multiple cycleways. Given the supposed urgency the Govt should bite the bullet:

From Jan 1 2022
1 Every family that has more than one fossil fuel powered vehicle will be reduced to a single vehicle. That vehicle will be limited to being used only on alternative days.
2. Only electricity generated by renewable sources will be supplied, (no gas, coal or diesel generation). This may lead to supply interruptions but I’m sure the team of 5 million would be happy to accept that to save the planet.
3. People will be expected to use the cycleways.
4. Internal flights within NZ will be cancelled. The only flights will be reduced number international flights the tickets will be very costly and allocated by ballot.

I’m sure you can add a few grey options to this list but I’m not sure the team of 5 Million would like any of them. /sarc
6 2
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October 31, 2021 3:54pm
Maggie Pie

Cue ‘Benny Hill’ music 😀 😀 😀

https://1news.co.nz/2021/10/30/picture-shows-miq-staff-chasing-after-alleged-covid-positive-escapee/
9 1
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October 31, 2021 4:22pm
Maggie Pie

And what chance Tamaki Makarau will ever reach the ‘magic’ 90% 🙁

https://1news.co.nz/2021/10/31/shock-and-sadness-as-auckland-medical-clinic-vandalised/
6 1
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October 31, 2021 4:47pm
- artemisia
  
  Vandalism is always poor form. Someone was pretty angry. Tearing down vax posters might give a clue.
  
  5 0
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  October 31, 2021 5:14pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    A rock thru the window…what a ‘stone-age’ response that is.
    
    Reminds me of the 2 days we spent in Port Moresby 🙁
    
    7 1
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    October 31, 2021 6:52pm
gorse

I grow more concerned when I read a headline in Stuff that New Zealand want to halve its emissions by 2030. I would guess that NZ doesn’t want to, but the Greens do. At what cost to our already collapsing economy? To do this would destroy us economically. We have probably a million more mouths to feed by then. A very poor country with a very low standard of living we are destined to become with this thinking.
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October 31, 2021 6:01pm
- Drone
  
  Hi @Gorse, the Government need to state exactly what they are going to legislate to make it happen. When they do the team of 5 Million will need to vote them out. To achieve the reductions talked about will lead to major changes in society which will not be supported by the majority.
  
  10 1
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  October 31, 2021 6:25pm
- Gravelroad
  
  I’m a pastoral farmer – not dairy – mostly sheep.
  What concerns me about these latest announcements by Shaw is this will be used to create more division between the farming sector and the urban people.
  It will be spun that the greedy, environmental wrecking farmers won’t reduce emissions by having fewer animals so you town dwellers (via the Labour government) will have to fund trees to be planted in Brazil or somewhere.
  
  The Labour/ Greens can only progress their agendas by dividing the population one way or another.
  
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  October 31, 2021 7:21pm
  - gorse
    
    Me too gravelroad
    
    0 0
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    October 31, 2021 9:35pm
Fletch

I just can’t watch the so-called “news” at 6pm any more. I have been avoiding it but it happened to be on as I walked by. Total propaganda. As I walked by they were interviewing people on the street and one woman talked about the unvaccinated holding the country to ransom. No, no it isn’t. It is the govt holding the country to ransom based on an arbitrary vaccination rate and which will make no difference in the end. Show me a country overseas where the vaccine has solved the problem?

Then the next story was on climate change crap and how NZ has to cut another half of its emissions. The whole thing is utter tosh. They had a segment showing James Shaw spouting rubbish. And a woman from Greenpeace. Gah!
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October 31, 2021 6:20pm
- dcrane
  
  Yes Stuff has been transparently preparing the covid-left to transfer its sense of panic to the environment, and accept whatever vanity project Cindy brings back from the UN.
  
  10 2
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  October 31, 2021 6:55pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    Rumour has it that we are going back to level 4 for 6 months each year to cut our transport emissions?
    
    5 1
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    October 31, 2021 7:57pm
Truman lodge

I wonder if we are still at level 3 at Xmas will that spell the end of a huge amount of retail businesses in Auckland?
12 0
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October 31, 2021 6:35pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Level 3 you will spend your limited income at the places in Auckland that Jaspinda says.
  She does not live in Auckland now.
  Why not lock down the Shore? No bridge and no Albany. Stay at home, do not talk to your neighbors.
  How long before the girly men start getting angry?
  
  10 1
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  October 31, 2021 7:05pm
Scooter

Fantastic the video of Jacinda being heckled

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/james-mcdonald-verry-elleegant-jockey-ahead-of-melbourne-cup/
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November 2, 2021 1:51pm

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