General Debate 21 November 2011

November 21st, 2011 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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214 Responses to “General Debate 21 November 2011”

  1. Yvette (2,743 comments) says:

    Police are expected to descend on media organisations today in pursuit of material related to the “teapot tape” …

    Among material police are looking for is documentation on whether Ambrose was paid for handing over the recording of a conversation between Mr Key and Act’s John Banks to the Herald on Sunday.

    Well, that’s just going to be lying around on some Herald office desk isn’t it … especially as this is reported by the Herald.

    Prime Minister John Key warned voters yesterday that a new government after Saturday’s election could be brought down on any issue by New Zealand First leader Winston Peters -
    - unless National won enough votes for “strong, stable, dependable leadership”.
    He stopped short of saying he wanted National to govern alone.
    But with support partner Act in a shambles, and Mr Peters closing in on the 5 per cent threshold it is clear National is making a coded pitch for majority government.

    Obvious – vote FPP in the Election and then tick ‘Retain MMP’ in the Referendum …

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  2. Pete George (23,292 comments) says:

    Polls show voters want an alternative to National sole rule, and see Labour as lost in bewilderment. Peters has surged on this sentiment but now voters will have a closer look at what that really means.

    In difficult times (and if Europe crashes it could get much more difficult) that leaves a stark choice, Winston’s antics versus safe and reliable Peter Dunne and United Future.

    Critical choice – Winsome’s ransom versus United Future. What sort of future do we want?

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  3. Michaels (1,318 comments) says:

    Matthew Hooton thinks Winston Peters is a CROOK…. interesting.

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  4. flipper (3,824 comments) says:

    My 14 year old Grandson watched Peters (take note: he blinks when he lies or misleads) on TV One this morning and said: ” He’s a f……. liar and he does not answer any question. He just rambles. If I did that at school…..”
    I ripped into him for using foul language, notwithstanding provocation.

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  5. laworder (277 comments) says:

    flipper wrote
    My 14 year old Grandson watched Peters (take note: he blinks when he lies or misleads) on TV One this morning and said: ” He’s a f……. liar and he does not answer any question. He just rambles. If I did that at school…..”
    I ripped into him for using foul language, notwithstanding provocation.

    I think I would have complimented him on his perceptiveness and astute assessment rather than ripped into him for swearing.

    Matthew Hooton thinks Winston First is a crook….. seriously, is there anyone out there that doesn’t apart from the terminally bewildered? NZ First does have good justice/ law and order policies (probably left over from Ron Marks tenure) but I doubt his commitment to actually carry any of it out.

    Regards
    Peter J
    Webmaster for http://www.sensiblesentencing.org.nz

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  6. Longknives (4,678 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6002320/Police-reject-Scribes-racism-claim

    So- Rapper abuses, insults and threatens Police
    Rapper is arrested
    Police are nice enough to let him off with a warning once sober
    Rapper uses this to enhance his ‘gangsta’ credentials- “Fuck da police” “Racism” etc etc
    Seen it all before recently

    Police should have learned their lesson from the Tiki Taane incident and made this illiterate, talentless moron go to Court and explain himself to a judge.

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  7. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    The country want National as majority partner in coalition with the Greens. The don’t want unbridled power in the hands of Key and English for obvious reasons. They can’t be trusted.

    As unlikely as a Blue Green partnership looks from an ideaological perspective, it stands as the only way to provide stability in gov’t going forward.

    …and to stop state assets sales !!!

    Mixed ownership: A more powerful option?

    National and the Green Party are at odds over the finances of the assets.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/business/6002021/Mixed-ownership-A-more-powerful-option

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  8. Scott Chris (5,963 comments) says:

    Scientists may have found a “brat” gene:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/wellbeing/6001977/Brat-gene-may-have-been-found

    The researchers from Arizona University examined the non-compliant and aggressive behaviours of 138 children aged between 18 and 54 months, as well as the quality of their mothers’ parenting behaviour.

    They also tested the children for variations in the SLC6A4 gene, which is known to transport serotonin, an important natural chemical messenger in the body linked to well-being.

    Just give your brat prozac.

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  9. Pete George (23,292 comments) says:

    But the Greens would have a major bust-up if they go into partnership with National – the disgreement on the handling of the sticker campaign highlighted the radical elements are still strong in the Green party.

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  10. Murray (8,841 comments) says:

    “The country want National as majority partner in coalition with the Greens.”

    On what fucking planet you delusional moron.

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  11. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    The greens need a major bust up.

    I just hope it’s messy and public…heh

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  12. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    Can i get a big breakfast with a hot chocolate there Murray before i answer your question ?

    …thanks chump

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  13. Ender (105 comments) says:

    This article on stuff.co.nz this morning http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6002311/Shock-look-at-NZs-child-poverty

    It makes me angry that “poverty” is blamed for the fact that these people lack the mental ability to teach their kids basic hygiene.

    Most of the preventable diseases are caused by sharing spit, failure to conform to (what we call common sense) food hygiene and not being taught to wash hands. I don’t care how poor anyone is; I don’t believe they can’t afford soap. Water comes from the tap for free. As for houses “with walls blackened by mould” — I know they’re not so poor they can’t afford a bottle of vinegar and to open the windows once a day.

    I was raised in a well-off (by provincial standards) but modest family and my mother would occaisionally take me to the recycled clothing outlet to pick up perfectly good clothing for often less than a dollar. If a mum can’t afford $10 to buy her kids 2 jerseys from SaveMart or similar then they have wrong priorities

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  14. East Wellington Superhero (1,151 comments) says:

    @ BWAV

    Mate, it’s over.

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  15. Seán (397 comments) says:

    Spanish general election today (Sun 20th) and the results are just coming in. The election was called 4 months early by the governing centre-left PSOE party who are in the gun for their handling of the economic crisis. The main centre-right party – Partido Popular (PP) – are expected to win with about 45% of the vote, vs 30% for the PSOE. Most of the rest for regional (nationalist) parties, especially in Cataluña (Barcelona) and Basque Country. So the CR should romp home since losing power in 2004 following the Madrid bombings, but the main question is whether they will get an absolute majority in parliament or not. In Spain they use the d’Hondt method of proportional representation – en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%27Hondt_system

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  16. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    The country want National as majority partner in coalition with the Greens.

    Give us the source for this claim. I have seen no evidence that that is what people want.

    The don’t want unbridled power in the hands of Key and English for obvious reasons. They can’t be trusted.

    Yes, they can. And the polls show that people DO trust them.

    and to stop state assets sales

    National is not going to sell any assets. They should, but they are not intending to do so. Selling a 49% stake in what will still be a state owned asset sale is NOT an asset sale. Stop lying.

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  17. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    What’s over EWS…Did i miss the breakfast menu at maccas again ?

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  18. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    The polls show NZ is looking like handing the balance of power to the greens and Key has signalled he can work with that. They also show that Key has a propensity to LIE and that state asset sales as a policy sucks !!!

    stop spinning Lee…I’m getting woozy.

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  19. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    The polls show NZ is looking like handing the balance of power to the greens

    No, they really don’t. The polls consistently show National governing alone.

    stop spinning Lee…I’m getting woozy

    Your the one spinning, and living in a fantasy world. That might explain the problems with your head your experiencing. Your clearly delusional.

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  20. East Wellington Superhero (1,151 comments) says:

    They’re saying bullied people should consider fighting back. I agree. I had a bully when I was 12. I decked him (was probably more of a shove if I was honest but he did go down) and that was the end of that. Donald Rumsfeld said, “If we know anything, it’s that weakness is provocative.” All the geldings will squeal about violence but they don’t realise that violence is already in the world and affects our kids. I’m not suggesting kids react violently at every little mock and snigger. But when you don’t let a young man use his strength (which is not always simple physical force) to do what is right, you confuse him and maybe demoralise him, and he doesn’t know what to do with his strength.

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  21. Michaels (1,318 comments) says:

    I got to thinking over the weekend…..
    We pay our MP’s pretty good money.
    We then fund them to tell us who to vote for.
    Why do we do this? It is madness.
    We then also pay them while they are telling us that we should vote for them

    Each party/person who wants to enter parliament should fund it themselves.
    Their pay should be suspended say 4 weeks out from the election then re-instated when they go back to work, except for say the PM and the Ministers as one would assume they still do a bit of actual work.

    This should also piss off most from the left as well, so all in all must make good sence.

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  22. hannity (152 comments) says:

    EWS “Mate its over”
    So Key, will relax, talk policy only, and not spend the next 5 days scare mongering.
    we’ll see .

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  23. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    NZ Conservative has a new blogger, Vanguard, who recently interviewed the Conservative Party. His post is up on our site.

    “We’re Conservative”- “So Are We”.

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  24. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    You seem to put an awful lot of faith in polls Lee. Care to predict what will actually happen on election night ?

    Will Banks win Epsom if Labour and Greens voters swallow a dead rat and vote strategically for Goldsmith ?

    Will Dunne hold Ohariu ?

    Will Winston get 5% ?

    Will the country sit back and allow state assets sales to go ahead if the Maori party get into bed with National again and their foreplay deal is preferential treatment for Maori investors ?

    Will National have the numbers to govern alone ?

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  25. East Wellington Superhero (1,151 comments) says:

    @ hannity

    Point taken. My comment was aimed at BWAV who is living in a fantasy land.

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  26. Scott Chris (5,963 comments) says:

    Troll Murray trolls: “On what fucking planet you delusional moron.”

    Derailing the thread again you brainless fuck.

    Look at yesterday’s GD. No silly insults. No trolls. No Murray.

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  27. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    Fantasyland…the new name for NZ under Key and English’s rule.

    A place where selling a countries assets creates jobs and a brighter future with the merest smile and wave of a hand.

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  28. dime (9,655 comments) says:

    Pete – why are United Future polling so low? is it cause your boss just goes with whoever he can to keep his pay packet the same?

    do you guys do anything about brand awareness outside on the campaign?

    didnt you once get 8 mp’s?

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  29. East Wellington Superhero (1,151 comments) says:

    @ Lucia Maria

    I think that parties of identities are problematic – in terms of rules, constitutions, the power of individual members, etc. If Colin Craig goes under a bus, the Conservative Party is gone. If John Key goes under a bus, National will still carry on. Further to that, ‘Christian’ parties or parties that court the Christian vote (even with the honest intention of not being a ‘Christian’ party) are even more problematic – they assume they speak for all Christians (Though I concede I find it hard to reconcile Christianity and voting Labour or Green) and risk embarrassing all Christians when they do stupid stuff.

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  30. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    EWS,

    Parties have to start somewhere, and that may be true as of this moment. But there is a strong desire for a real alternative.

    Right now we have an entrenched two-party system that has allowed the politicians to think they can do what ever they want without consequence. That has to change.

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  31. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    If John Key goes under a bus, National will still carry on.

    but if it happened this week how many people would still vote National ?

    At least if Goff went under there’d probably be more people voting Labour.

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  32. labours a joke (442 comments) says:

    Black with whatever…partial asset sales black..” partial “…dont let the facts get in the way of a good spin eh sonny.

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  33. Brian Smaller (4,025 comments) says:

    @Ender – you could give those morons ten grand a month and their kids would still be covered in sores. I have had plenty of houses with mould – my last one in Avalon had a doozy dose of it – I got a chair and some bleach and cleaned it off. The trouble is that many of the ‘poor’ are too stupid to actually do anything for themselves. They need mollycoddling.

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  34. dime (9,655 comments) says:

    “At least if Goff went under there’d probably be more people voting Labour.” lol you said it.

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  35. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    Also, the Conservative Party is not a Christian party. What on earth gives you that idea – the fact that there are Christians in it? Or that Christians might support it? On that basis we can call both National and Labour Christian parties as well, especially Labour who falsely believe their policies are Christianity in action.

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  36. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    The “real alternative” is a bible bashing party?

    Bugger that, I would rather vote for Labour, the Greens or Mana before I voted for a party that believes religion has any part in government.

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  37. adze (1,982 comments) says:

    Meanwhile it looks like the Egyptian military is playing silly buggers with the democratic process in that country… What a huge disappointment for the millions who fought to overturn the Mubarak regime.

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  38. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    Big Bruv

    Labour, Greens and Mana very much believe that the Maori religion should be a part of government.

    You may have lucked out there as well.

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  39. pseudonymous (71 comments) says:

    Did it-cancelled delivery of The Red Herald-after 30 years-feels good.
    And gave them an earful at the same time.
    cheers and all that -go the Nats

    jacko

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  40. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    …dont let the facts get in the way of a good spin eh sonny.

    The facts are, state asset sales, even partially, are uneccessary, unpopular and unjust and you can’t spin you way out of that eh grandad ?

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  41. East Wellington Superhero (1,151 comments) says:

    @ Lucia Maria

    Because I know many people involved with it. I also note Larry Baldock is number three. When it looks like duck, and sounds like a duck… Please don’t get me wrong, I respect all of them and I wasn’t trying to be disparaging. I just wanted to point out why I think it’s problematic.

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  42. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    EWS,

    So, trying to read between the lines here, are you saying Christians should not be involved in politics?

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  43. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    Asked when he was last frightened, Mr Key said “it happens on a daily basis”.

    “It’s called picking up the Herald.”

    Stop picking it up then, I have.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10767604

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  44. labours a joke (442 comments) says:

    so wheres labours money gona come from black..16 billion? More borrow and hope black? Wheres it gona come from black , c’mon man…show us the money black…s-h-o-w u-s t-h-e m-o-n-e-y s-o-n-n-y.

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  45. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    Key: Kiwis support asset sales

    “If you went to New Zealanders and said, ‘would you like to borrow another $7 billion in the world’s markets where debt is a major issue, and that’s what has dragged down Italy, and Greece, and Ireland, and Portugal and Spain, or would you like to build new infrastructure at all for the next five years and pretend we’re going to be a growth economy, or would you like to have the Air New Zealand model operating in a few more companies’ I think you’d get a different answer.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10767604

    yeah the answer he’d get is…

    “what the fuck are you on about you greasy bastard…which part of we don’t want state assets sold under any bullshit justification from you ya lying prick don’t you understand ?”

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  46. ste3e (91 comments) says:

    Bill English squirmed and now John Key nervously cleared his throat twice when asked on Q + A about the sorts of austerity the country faces if we take National’s path. National gamble that they can increase export earnings sufficiently to increase the tax take so they can cover repayments on the current 71 billion debt (Muldoon bequeathed 7 billion). If export revenue does not increase, tax take will not be sufficient for the government to make repayments on the debt without borrowing to do so, which is part of the reason they intend selling state assets.

    And let’s look at that. In the first instance a significant proportion of the proceeds are slated for infrastructure and therefore the sale of the assets will not mean the government no longer needs to borrow to meet debt repayments. Furthermore, the critical time is the immediate present when the government is borrowing hand over fist, a situation that will not be relieved by the sale of assets which will take time to administrate and effect. Add to this the utter nonsense of building up an asset over decades only to sell it at the bottom of the economic cycle, a time where its dividend in relation to its capital value would see any prudent investor keeping the asset. Furthermore, once sold, and borrowing is continued to repay debt, the dividend from the sold asset is now lost, which means less revenue for the government and more borrowing. Now there is conservative and clear headed economic decision making for you! Lunatics.

    So far we have not even mentioned the cost of social responsibility, a double edged sword if ever there was one. It cuts on the first edge because better societies spend to look after the poor, befuddled and ‘useless’. But, and this is the point National party supporters have difficulty seeing through the haze of their self-righteous specs, it costs more to leave the poor and befuddled in poverty; it costs more in crime and the services that government finances to control crime; it costs more in health and the services that government finances to ensure health. Simply put, austerity measures will cost and therefore are not a solution to balancing the books… how much do you think England has saved after accounting for the riots?

    On all these counts Labour have a better plan. Cover the debt immediately by increasing the top tax rate; cover debt in the long term and in the future by introducing capital gains tax, by keeping the assets and therefore the dividend they return, by increasing retirement age; a plan which likely will see the reinstatement of the country’s credit rating. They blunt the bottom edge of social responsibility by alleviating poverty while working to bring youth back into the fold giving them training and apprenticeships.

    It is odd. The country has in John Key a throw back to the ‘80s, a time of yuppies and money for nothing. While living through the most severe world recession of our time we sit as if glued to the television partaking of National’s fantasy, cheering for J.R Ewing (Dallas reference), hardly a conservative approach to the real economic situation. Maybe you do like what National “say” about self responsibility, or the character of the New Zealand they have described, but do you really believe they will be able to bring it about? They begin by alienating broad sections of the population, and you think that is how you bring people along with you? No! That has never worked and it will not work in this instance.

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  47. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    Lucia

    So are you saying that religion should have no place in government?

    If that is the case then it may well be the only thing that you and I will ever agree on.

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  48. Murray (8,841 comments) says:

    Meanwhile labour is telling children that if their parents parents vote national they will seel santa sleigh??

    http://images.tvnz.co.nz/tvnz_images/news2011/politics_news/asset_sales_tweet_2.jpg

    Seriously what the fuck is wrong with these people? You leftards are some pretty fucked up people.

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  49. Elaycee (4,332 comments) says:

    “Derailing the thread again you brainless fuck.”

    But if someone called you that, you’d run off squealing like a little stuck piggie all the way to the headmaster – bleating because someone called you names.

    100% hypocrite.

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  50. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    BWAV – do you think we should own 100% of Air New Zealand? Obviously you can’t vote for Labour unless they include that in their policy, unless you’re being a hypocrite.

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  51. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    so wheres labours money gona come from black..16 billion? More borrow and hope black? Wheres it gona come from black , c’mon man…show us the money black…s-h-o-w u-s t-h-e m-o-n-e-y s-o-n-n-y.

    Jeez grandad…i remember when you were somewhat lucid and rational. It saddens me to see you this way.

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  52. labours a joke (442 comments) says:

    “which part of we ”

    Dont include me in your we Pollywog. Im for partial selling off of state assets. Infact Id go one further and completely sell out of AirNZ. Bank the profit and move on. Airlines..too fickle , bad investments. You still havent told me where Phil and Dave are getting all their dosh from Pollywog. Come on ..cough up the finer details or STFU.

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  53. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    Big Bruv,

    The answer is a qualified “yes”. However, I do think there are other things we have already agreed upon, it’s just that my religion tends to scramble your brain cells and you’ve most likely forgotten.

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  54. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    Always needing spoonfed these days grandad…*sigh*

    You know you’ll blow a foo foo valve if you keep this up and i’m more likely to rub your face in it than clean you up and sponge bath you again. Though at the rate you shit and wallow in it i’m starting to think you like it.

    …shitting yourself that is. I know you like the spongebaths you deviant old fucker.

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  55. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    Black with a vengeance,

    Your comment of 10:58 is just disgusting.

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  56. Murray (8,841 comments) says:

    Hes a digusting individual, what do you expect.

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  57. labours a joke (442 comments) says:

    Tsk Tsk black, your true colours are showing again. Hey did you know that your mamas got two assholes? Your one of them. Good day sir.

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  58. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    Lucia

    There is nothing wrong with my brain, hence my atheism.

    As for what we might agree on, well given your stone age view of the world and how you think it should be run then I fail to see how we could ever agree on anything else.

    You believe in middle eastern superstition, sadly that colours your view on everything and restricts your ability to see reason.

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  59. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    Just looking at Meridian Energy, they returned a dividend of $158million for the 2010 FY.

    Dividends
    The Board of Meridian have declared a final dividend of $68.5m to be paid on 29 October 2010,
    following an interim dividend of $89.6m paid in April represents a total dividend of $158.1m”

    http://www.meridianenergy.co.nz/assets/PDF/Company/Investors/Reports-and-presentations/Annual-reports/2010/2010Annualresultsannouncement.pdf

    So if the state retains 51% then that would mean forgoing dividends of $78 million p/a (using 2010 as a baseline).

    Treasury estimates selling 49% of Meridian could raise as much as $3.1billion.
    http://nzbudget2011.com/2011/05/19/meridian-energy-offers-biggest-gain-in-7-bln-govt-sell-down/

    So in the best case scenario, we get $3.1billion in the short term (say within 12 months) and lose dividends of $78 million p/a.
    Assuming we could borrow the $3.1 billion at zero interest, it would still take 40 years of dividends to pay it back.

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  60. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    so so sad grandad…You should know mum’s been dead for ages.

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  61. Ender (105 comments) says:

    @Brian Smaller — exactly my point, thank you

    @ste3e 10.41am — you’re making it sound as though Labour isn’t relying on increased tax takes to fund their spending promises. If anything I’d say that National’s plan is less likely to suffer problems from lower-than-forecast tax take because it’s not the only funding route they are relying on.

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  62. nasska (10,868 comments) says:

    Milky Cocoa with a Crappy Disposition

    ‘labours a joke’ asked a valid question. Where is the money for Labour’s electoral bribes coming from if not from increased borrowings?

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  63. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    Treasury estimates selling could raise BLAH BLAH BLAH…

    that’ll be the same treasury that predicted a ‘decade of deficits’ Key can halve without selling state assets as that money will be going into an infrastructure fund for schools and shit…

    …the same treasury that’s predicitng 170 000 jobs in 4 years that Key is gonna pull out of English’s arse.

    see the problem here RightNow ?

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  64. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    @ BWAV

    The facts are, state asset sales, even partially, are uneccessary, unpopular and unjust and you can’t spin you way out of that eh grandad ?

    In they are both necessary and just. The only problem with Nationals plan is that it does not go far enough.

    You seem to put an awful lot of faith in polls Lee. Care to predict what will actually happen on election night ?

    Happily. National will be able to govern alone. NZF will not make the 5% threshold. The Greens actual vote will be in single digits, and Labour will not get to 30%. I don’t know about Banks and I don’t really care, as we need a new party on the right of National. ACT is a spent force.

    Big Bruv,

    There is nothing rational about atheism. It’s a cult for the perpetually deluded.

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  65. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    Hes a digusting individual, what do you expect.

    …says the guy who spits on peoples burgers before flipping them.

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  66. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    National will be able to govern alone. NZF will not make the 5% threshold. The Greens actual vote will be in single digits, and Labour will not get to 30%.

    Thats a big call Lee. Kudos for that.

    So how’s the weather in Fantasyland ?…Storms brewing in NZ looking to rain on your parade i reckon.

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  67. leftyliberal (642 comments) says:

    @RightNow: The price the government receives will be approximately what the market values the dividends in the future, so assuming the market is correct it’s break even for the government. If the market undervalues the forgone dividends then the government loses overall (it’ll get less upfront than it would have got if it had kept them). If the market overvalues then the government wins overall. In order for the government to win, the investors (supposedly NZ mums and dads) get a lower return than the government would have should it have retained them.

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  68. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    @leftyliberal – ‘losing overall’ is an abstract concept considering the opportunity value of the capital that can be monetised by partial sales. For me the question is how long do we muddle along hanging on to 100% of our assets (except in AirNZ’s case of 75%), and not exploiting our minerals? Why don’t we realise some of that potential wealth and use it to give NZ a step change now?

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  69. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    and not exploiting our mineral potential. Why don’t we realise some of that potential wealth and use it to give NZ a step change now?

    at what environmental and social cost RightNow and how many lives are you willing to trade for it ?

    Is 29 at Pike River not enough for you ?

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  70. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    BWAV – Pike River was a tragedy, but not a reason to halt all mineral exploitation. There have been 24 deaths in forestry over the last 5 years, should we also put a halt to that?

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  71. leftyliberal (642 comments) says:

    @RightNow: The opportunity lost is taken into account by the purchasers of any shares as well. Whether or not it’s better for the government to invest in other productive (i.e. money making) assets is something that the Nats have currently not shown: They’ve put the money into schools and irrigation schemes which are not productive (at least in terms of $$ return). In addition, they’re establishing their Future Investment Fund or are they paying down debt? The reasons for the sales have been blurred at best, which has allowed Labour to capitalize (though not in terms of party vote according to the polls) via a simple, clear message.

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  72. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    Lee

    Atheism is not a cult at all, but you know that.

    Are you so unsure of your own beliefs that you feel the need to start smearing those who see religion for the evil that it is?

    If you are happy to spend the rest of your life fearful of your god then you knock yourself out, those of us who know the truth are too busy having fun.

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  73. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    Pike River was a tragedy…

    It was a tragedy that should have been averted. So ask yourself this…

    Should we tighten up health and safety regulations and factor in the social and environment costs before raping the land RN ?

    or

    do we just look at the bottom line of profitability and fuck the rest ?

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  74. Murray (8,841 comments) says:

    Blackie you have asserted that I spit on peoples burgers, would you care to explain how you come by this intelligence or simply acknowldge that you are singularly full of shit and this is just another example of your disgusting tiny little imagination in action.

    Unfortunatley DPF has banned people calling you what you are.

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  75. mattyroo (1,006 comments) says:

    The Herald keeps pushing the line that ACT is fucked in Epsom: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10767626

    When will the left-wing knob jockeys who infest our media realise that the productive people who vote ACT are all at work, out being productive, therefore not able to participate in their “street survey”. Or is it just a case that this poll result suits their agenda?

    When will we get some decent fucking journalists in this country that actually analyse policies on their merits, rather than idiots that just try to manipulate the election, because the PM has dared question their ethics and integrity. Cunts the lot of them!

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  76. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    BWAV – yes we should tighten up health and safety, and appoint more mines inspectors. It seems that Pike River weren’t operating safely at all, but that doesn’t mean all mining is that unsafe. We can learn a lot from Australia who have much more expertise than NZ, and who have been riding an economic boom due to their mining. It’s why so many kiwis go to Australia – to work in the minerals sector because the high paying jobs are there.

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  77. Bob (495 comments) says:

    John Minto is a nutter. I doubt that is an original observation. According to the Herald he wants open entry for Pacific Islanders to New Zealand on the same basis as Australians. Do we want a large number of unskilled immigrtants many of whom will end up on a benefit? Australians are allowed here because it is two way. Also those Australians will generally bring skills while Islanders won’t. While I acknowledge we need to help the Islands improve their standards of living we don’t want to be over run by unskilled people. I would rather see them left at home and helped there.

    The second policy by Minto to cancel all free trade agreements is even worse. Does that include agreements with Australia? Imagine what that would do to us and our economy. We have spent years building up trade agreements. People like Minto think money appears from nowhere to pay the low earners while high achievers have no right to their incomes.

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  78. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    Bob, I wonder if it would be a two-way policy Minto proposes? My retirement plan options may open up if that is the case, off to a Pacific Island nation to live on a benefit.

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  79. mattyroo (1,006 comments) says:

    Bob, If Minto agrees that we can drop the minimum wage law, remove all benefit entitlements to people who have been here less than 10 years and lets us permanently evict from the country any non-NZ born person who commits a crime, then he can have his open door policy with the Islands. Otherwise, he can just continue his masturbation over Das Kapital.

    His policy on cancelling all FTAs is not worth even responding to.

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  80. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    A would-be dictator is jeered: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_RUSSIA_PUTIN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-11-20-16-37-41

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  81. Put it away (2,888 comments) says:

    So, Tanned Taiwanese With A Dishonesty Problem, are you ready to apologise to mr Brownlee for the slander you were making up yesterday?

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  82. Scott Chris (5,963 comments) says:

    Well waddayaknow. Troll Murray’s in another flame war.
    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    BWAV says:- “Should we tighten up health and safety regulations and factor in the social and environment costs before raping the land RN ?”

    In short, no and yes. I advocate the idea of “true cost” when it comes to accounting for environmental impact, but with regard to health and safety, I advocate personal responsibility, as relying on Nanny to tell you what to do leads to a state of learned helplessness.

    RightNow says:- “BWAV – yes we should tighten up health and safety, and appoint more mines inspectors.”

    Crikey. More Nannies?

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  83. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    I advocate personal responsibility…

    I advocate collective responsibility from the top down. From Brownlees ineptitude to the miners lack of quality training.

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  84. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    Scott Chris “Crikey. More Nannies?”

    One of the pivotal issues around mine safety is that there is currently only one mines inspector for the whole country. So in short – yes, more nannies.

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  85. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    7.6% of electors still not enrolled. Just at a guess I’m picking that’s mostly from Labour and Mana support base.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/6004420/Around-240-000-not-enrolled-to-vote

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  86. Black with a Vengeance (1,610 comments) says:

    So in short – yes, more nannies.

    Foreign nannies in short shorts and work boots who arent afraid of getting down and dirty.

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  87. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    7.6% of electors still not enrolled. Just at a guess I’m picking that’s mostly from Labour and Mana support base.

    Yes. And possibly illiterate, too.

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  88. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    “Foreign nannies in short shorts and work boots who arent afraid of getting down and dirty.”
    Just how I like my Au Pairs.

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  89. Shunda barunda (2,966 comments) says:

    A civil defence warning has been issued for Greymouth, the Grey river looks like it is about to have the largest flood on record, this will be a huge test for the flood defence infrastructure recently upgraded, which I am currently sitting behind, so here’s hoping she holds!!

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  90. freemark (511 comments) says:

    Pike River.. I read last week that cigarette butts and lighters had been found inside the mine on more than one occasion.
    No idea if this was the spark that killed those 29 guys, but if it was.. who would get the blame then?

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  91. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    Good luck there, Shunda barunda!

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  92. Murray (8,841 comments) says:

    So we’ll just go with you’re full of shit then blackie.

    One more week of your shit then you can piss off back to where you can from and bitch about the elft were seen off. Democracy sucks when the voters don’t do what you tell them doesn’t it.

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  93. Mick Mac (1,091 comments) says:

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.bb560ae65a071dc80a1c88fdc371ec35.d51&show_article=1

    do you have a smartphone and FB?

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  94. nasska (10,868 comments) says:

    Mick Mac

    You don’t suspect that this could be part of a conspiracy do you? Couldn’t have come at a worse time with Water Woman tied up with the elections.

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  95. Nookin (3,178 comments) says:

    Shunda
    Do you want to borrow a body board?

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  96. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    So it seems BWAV is having an enforced break from KB, with the new 50 demerits taking him to a total of 110.

    Probably be good for his blood pressure, especially after election night.

    On the other hand, I’m expecting we’ll see a ‘new’ commenter pop up soon with a strikingly similar style.

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  97. Elaycee (4,332 comments) says:

    @RightNow says: “I’m expecting we’ll see a ‘new’ commenter pop up soon with a strikingly similar style.”

    Maybe the return of Pollywog? :D

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  98. Kimble (4,406 comments) says:

    Remind me again, why don’t we have torturing-to-death as a sentencing option for people who kill babies?

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  99. Elaycee (4,332 comments) says:

    You’re 100% correct Kimble – but the mere mention of it here will bring the usual hand wringers / students (sometimes one and the same) out to complain that we just don’t understand people who commit such disgusting atrocities and that we need to give them a hug rather than a lead injection courtesy of Remington’s finest.

    Anyone who commits an appalling crime of this nature, deserves nothing more than a swift ending.

    No chance of any recidivism either! :)

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  100. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Will the infamous and universally despised Pollywog come back? Time will tell.

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  101. F E Smith (3,314 comments) says:

    And on a completely different topic…

    There is an interesting post in the Telegraph’s blogs section today on the child abuse scandal involving a Penn State football coach.  An potentially controversial quote is 

    A recent report by the US Department of Education revealed that a child is more than 100 times more likely to be sexually abused by a public school teacher than by a priest. To quote: “a study by the US Conference of Catholic Bishops concluded that 10,667 young people were sexually mistreated by priests between 1950 and 2002. In contrast, [it] extrapolates from a national survey conducted for the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation in 2000 that roughly 290,000 students experienced some sort of physical sexual abuse by a public school employee between 1991 and 2000.” Ergo, Sandusky’s activities are part of a wider story of criminal infiltration of our national institutions.

    If you follow the link, you get to this page, which has an interesting picture of child abusers from within the US school system, but the onward link to the report is broken.  If you google the report title then you can get it directly from the source website.

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  102. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    An interesting article from The Spectator: http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/all/7360303/the-generation-game.thtml

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  103. labours a joke (442 comments) says:

    Screaming headline from the filth at the strandard.

    “National is getting increasingly hysterical as its internal polling shows its majority slipping away and New Zealand First above 5%. National is lashing out, saying Winston could trigger a snap election because he wouldn’t sacrifice his principles like the Maori Party and ACT. Invent your own anti-NZF scare line for National”

    “Hysterical”..”Lashing out”. What solar system are they in? I dont see any Nats being hysterical and lashing out?

    “The Strandard..making shit up since blogging began” Losers.

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  104. joe90 (273 comments) says:

    Yeah, sweet as F.E, when you’ve got a whole church devoted to defending the abusers.

    http://ncronline.org/news/accountability/bishops-were-warned-abusive-priests

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/world/europe/25vatican.html?src=me&ref=general

    http://www.modbee.com/2010/06/04/1194014/church-pays-abusive-ex-priest.html

    http://clericalabusewatch.blogspot.com/2010/12/breaking-news-german-cover-up-of-abuse.html

    http://votf.org/ChicagoStudy101210FINAL.pdf

    http://www.internationalorder.org/scandal_response.html

    http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/the-pedophiles-paradise/Content?oid=1065017

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  105. F E Smith (3,314 comments) says:

    Joe90,

    is it hard to move with that huge chip on your shoulder? Nobody said that the Catholic Church hasn’t had a problem with child abuse that it has handled very badly. Just that the reasons for it may not be as clear cut as some say, and that child abuse within the US school system appears to be worse. If you read the UK papers regularly you will notice that there is, anecdotally, an increasing pattern of sexual abuse occuring in UK schools as well.

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  106. Kimble (4,406 comments) says:

    Anyone who commits an appalling crime of this nature, deserves nothing more than a swift ending.

    Thats the least they deserve.

    Enough torture spaced over a long time to destroy their minds at an excruciating pace. A slow disposal is what I am talking about. Start with the toes, then the feet, then the legs…

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  107. DavidC (179 comments) says:

    Centre right wins absolute majority in Spanish election. Yeeehaaa.
    The start of a trend!

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  108. joe90 (273 comments) says:

    There may well be anecdotally an increase in abuse at schools F.E but how many offenders have multiple victims, in the case of Father Murphy at St. John’s School for the Deaf 200 plus, and an infrastructure devoted to defending them?.

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  109. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    Joe,

    Let’s put the Catholic Church sex abuse scandal into perspective. It’s much more a problem of pederasty than true paedophilia, since most of the victims were post-pubescent boys.

    Personally, I think it’s great that you expect more from a Catholic priest than you do a public school teacher. After all the Catholic priest has taken vows of celibacy, and has recourse to Confession and the Eucharist in order to be able to control any sexual urges that may arise, while as public school teachers don’t as a matter of course.

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  110. leftyliberal (642 comments) says:

    Is “the Eucharist” another name for wanking?

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  111. ste3e (91 comments) says:

    Endor

    It is precisely the lack of options that makes National’s position untenable. They rule out increasing taxes so they could at least remove the need to borrow to pay interest on the debt because they need such a low tax rate to attract the bottom dwellers of foreign investment which forms part of their export led recovery plan. By ‘bottom dwellers’ I don’t mean all foreign investors, America have trillions tied up in countries with tax rates around %50, I mean those foreign investors that find it more profitable to invest in third world country’s sweat shops… these have to be the targets of National’s policies, because our tax rates are already half that of America and England; meaning, we are trying to attract investment away from countries with lower tax rates or labour rates than ours.

    National’s position is untenable because no matter how efficient our export sector is, its success depends entirely on the world economy, and America and Europe have woken up to the fact that all the money they used to have has sailed off to Asia, has been lent back to them, and they now have to pay back the debt. Which is to say, we are not the only country in the world market that finds it necessary to grow the size of its pie, there are some real big and increasingly mean players after the same goal; any slivers we manage will be hard fought in this market. Therefore relying on export growth to cover debt, while selling assets is economic lunacy.

    While there may be an initial increase in borrowing under Labour, the entire debt and its pay back is covered without punting on the improbability that we are going to make gains in export revenue in the foreseeable future. Indeed, any export gains (and Labour have always tried to promote this) mean speedier pay down of debt, and what with the retention of state assets, therefore better prospects for further reduction in personal taxes. It is like NZ business people have decided suicide is a better option than having to remove tax cuts given to the wealthy.

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  112. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    After all the Catholic priest has taken vows of celibacy,..

    Precisely! You just nailed it without knowing.

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  113. F E Smith (3,314 comments) says:

    an infrastructure devoted to defending them?.

    I think that is a bit unfair.  It is like saying that the Police have an infrastructure devoted to defending officers who break the law, simply because the Police Association have defence lawyers they retain to defend their members, and the heirarchy will usually get on the front foot to put their position in front of the public before any investigation takes place!

    The Catholic Church is somewhat ancient as an institution and I am sure has a beauracracy to rival many governments.  People in authority make bad decisions in many areas, but it takes a lot of cynicism or bad feeling to see it as ‘an infrastructure devoted’ to defending offending priests.

    I have always viewed it as a mixture of head in the sand poor leadership mixed with the unfortunate and independent attempts to cover up.  I don’t see an ‘infrastructure’ there at all, as that suggets and organised and planned body of people used for the purpose of cover ups etc.

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  114. Shunda barunda (2,966 comments) says:

    Shunda
    Do you want to borrow a body board?

    May have to shortly! the river level is currently at Septemper 88 levels that decimated the town, the flood walls are holding but starting to leak big time, unfortunately the river is still rising and the peak will coincide with high tide.

    River flow is currently at just over 5800 cumecs which is quite incredible to witness!!.

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  115. Scott Chris (5,963 comments) says:

    Kimble says:- “Remind me again, why don’t we have torturing-to-death as a sentencing option for people who kill babies?”

    Because one disgusting atrocity is compounded by another disgusting atrocity, not solved.

    Had the child survived, he may well have turned from victim to perp. That is the nature of social reproduction.

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  116. Nookin (3,178 comments) says:

    Are the whitebait running?

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  117. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    LeftyLiberal,

    Obviously not. Though, if you have a problem in that area, Our Lord advises that it would be better for you to cut off your hand than to burn in hell for eternity.

    Manolo,

    Yes, I’ve heard the theory that celibacy causes adherents to abuse children – however, it has no foundation. Just your ordinary, every day Joe wondering if not ever being able to have sex would drive some one mad, and therefore assuming that madness translates into abuse.

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  118. Scott Chris (5,963 comments) says:

    F E Smith says:- “It is like saying that the Police have an infrastructure devoted to defending officers who break the law”

    They do. It’s called the (I)PCA.

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  119. leftyliberal (642 comments) says:

    @Lucia Maria: Lucky it’s just the hand that has to come off, eh?

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  120. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    ste3e, nah, never mind, I can’t be bothered.

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  121. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    Need a laugh?
    http://disqus.com/guest/92a56094b249ae7d2e0dbe45f89645ea/

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  122. F E Smith (3,314 comments) says:

    They do. It’s called the (I)PCA.

    :D

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  123. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    Who does the US really owe money to?

    Hong Kong: $121.9 billion (0.9 percent)
    Caribbean banking centers: $148.3 (1 percent)
    Taiwan: $153.4 billion (1.1 percent)
    Brazil: $211.4 billion (1.5 percent)
    Oil exporting countries: $229.8 billion (1.6 percent)
    Mutual funds: $300.5 billion (2 percent)
    Commercial banks: $301.8 billion (2.1 percent)
    State, local and federal retirement funds: $320.9 billion (2.2 percent)
    Money market mutual funds: $337.7 billion (2.4 percent)
    United Kingdom: $346.5 billion (2.4 percent)
    Private pension funds: $504.7 billion (3.5 percent)
    State and local governments: $506.1 billion (3.5 percent)
    Japan: $912.4 billion (6.4 percent)
    U.S. households: $959.4 billion (6.6 percent)
    China: $1.16 trillion (8 percent)
    The U.S. Treasury: $1.63 trillion (11.3 percent)
    Social Security trust fund: $2.67 trillion (19 percent)

    So America owes foreigners about $4.5 trillion in debt. But America owes America $9.8 trillion.

    http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/21/who-owns-america-hint-its-not-china/

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  124. Put it away (2,888 comments) says:

    Pollywog really has been vile lately, hasn’t he. I think he’s auditioning for Trevor’s job.

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  125. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    What is the percentage of lawyers in New Zealand who have to have thier trust funds managed by or strictly supervised by the Law Society?

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  126. F E Smith (3,314 comments) says:

    PaulEB,

    dunno the exact numbers, but just going on how often we see it in Law Talk, very, very few. I will have a look and see if I can find out.

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  127. Elaycee (4,332 comments) says:

    Barry Soper (Lefty ‘political editor’, NewstalkZB) just had his arse handed to him on a plate by Deborah Coddington and Larry Williams. Soper was bleating long and hard about his beloved Labour team and when countered with an opposing view from Coddington, he eventually lost it – raising his voice over the top of Coddington bleating that ‘Coddington is getting all the time.” Of course, this meant he wasn’t able to spew his usual leftard bias.

    Williams was excellent – he baited and baited Soper until Soper could hold back no more…. Haha haha. It was a beautiful thing. Its clearly tough being a leftard these days…

    Soper = PWNED!

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  128. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Time the bludging lawyer bastards were all paid via WINZ vouchers PEB just like all the other beneficiaries should be.

    Would limit their ability to rip off the system. :)

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  129. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    I believes its more than ” very very few” though

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  130. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Its very, very few of the turds that have been caught yet, I think his lordship means. :)

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  131. adze (1,982 comments) says:

    PIA

    Yes, he has. I’ve had to bite my tongue a few times, but I knew his trolling would see him getting kicked eventually.

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  132. dime (9,655 comments) says:

    woo hooo BWAV suspended for a week? it was on 60 demerits.. another 60 today that ive seen…

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  133. Lucia Maria (2,239 comments) says:

    Elaycee,

    Coddington won? You have got to be kidding.

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  134. F E Smith (3,314 comments) says:

    PaulEB,

    The 2010 annual report says that there have been no payments from the Lawyers Fidelity Fund since it was reconsituted in 2008. There was one payment of $6600 under the old scheme, which meant that there was an issue pre-2008.

    There are a small handful of complaints re misappropriation in the 2009 and 2010 reports, but no indication of whether they were upheld or not.

    Out of the 11,000 plus lawyers in NZ, the number of allegations of theft are minute.

    I have found a decision from 2005 requiring 6-monthly audits of the lawyer’s practice, but nothing to suggest what it was about. It could just as easily have been poor administration as much as anything else.

    But I cannot find anything on point re your question in recent years.

    Most complaints, for what it is worth, are over the amount of fees charged, and the majority of complaints are not proceeded with.

    Sorry that the above is incomplete, but it only gets looked at once a year in the annual report! Complaints since 2009 are online, and nothing there indicates a complaint that would involve supervision. One involved some re-training in trust account management, but nothing else that I can see that is relevant.

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  135. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Is Soper’s sister the Labour MP (first name is forgettable) Soper from down in the stix ??

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  136. F E Smith (3,314 comments) says:

    PaulEB,

    if you can give me a link or example that leads you to that belief, I would be happy to have a look and see if I can get more info that way.

    EDIT: Actually, when I use the word theft above, I probably shouldn’t. Trust account mismanagement can also lead to misappropriation without an allegation of actual theft, so I need to use the word misappropriate, rather than theft, I think.

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  137. alex Masterley (1,498 comments) says:

    PaulEB, FES,

    The only tribunals that can make supervision orders for solicitors trust accounts are the Lawyers and Conveyancers Disciplinary Tribunal and I think, in certain circumstances, standards committees.

    The LCDT to my knowledge, has not made an order of that sort since it was established in 2008.

    Likewise as far as I am aware no such orders have been made by standards committees.

    There may be some hangovers from the old district tribunals and the old disciplinary tribunal but they will be few in number.

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  138. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    “Most complaints, for what it is worth, are over the amount of fees charged”. :)

    What a fuckin surprise!!! :)

    Time we got shot of artificially jacked up legal aid for greedy lawyers and they get to do what all small business has to do.

    Charge the rate their clients can afford or go under and get a real job that suits their real skills. :)

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  139. F E Smith (3,314 comments) says:

    Thanks, Alex. Appreciate that muchly.

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  140. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Do you ever feel stupid, and can you not see the humour in the lines you have just quoted Alex?

    Can you not see why the legal trade is regarded with the same esteem as pollies, estate agents, double glazing contractors and car dealers? :)

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  141. publicwatchdog (2,270 comments) says:

    A vote for John Banks is effectively a vote for a ‘white collar’ criminal who has yet to be charged or convicted, in my considered opinion.

    Dr Brash (ex-Leader of the National Party – now Leader of the ACT Party/ National “B” Team, has a PhD in Hypocrisy, as has ex-National Government Minister of Police /Local Government – now ACT candidate for Epsom John Banks.

    For both of them – ACT’s ‘ONE LAW FOR ALL’ obviously doesn’t apply to them – or they would have equally been charged along with former fellow Director of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd, Peter Huljich, for signing Registered Prospectuses for Huljich Kiwisaver Schemes which contained untrue statements.

    Banks and Brash want to help run NZ – and they couldn’t properly run a Hulich Kiwisaver Scheme?

    How commercially competent are they???

    FYI – tmorrow night there will be a public meeting in Parnell where Epsom candidates will be speaking.

    WHEN: 7pm Tuesday 22 November 2011
    WHERE: Jubilee Building
    545 Parnell Rd

    This Epsom candidates meeting I have been invited to attend (unlike the meeting held last Thursday).

    ipredict it will be a rather lively event…………..

    Penny Bright
    Independent candidate for Epsom
    Campaigning against CRIME, ‘white collar’ CORRUPTION (and its root cause – PRIVATISATION) and ‘CORPORATE WELFARE’

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  142. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Go away, mad water woman!

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  143. alex Masterley (1,498 comments) says:

    Johnboy,

    Costs complaints can only be made in relation to fees over $2000.00.

    Most costs complaints relate to commercial conveyancing and in relation to privately funded family and civil litigation.

    Legally aided people do not complain about fees as those are paid, intially, by legal services.

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  144. alex Masterley (1,498 comments) says:

    Johnboy,

    At least we are above journalists.

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  145. Kimble (4,406 comments) says:

    Because one disgusting atrocity is compounded by another disgusting atrocity, not solved.

    Compounded? Bullshit. How is giving this guy the treatment he deserves worse than what he did?

    If you could bring back the baby completely unharmed, and apply torture-treatment to the guy who killed it, why wouldnt you do it?

    Also, the benefit of the second “atrocity” is inarguably much larger than the benefit from the first. In the first the perpetrator experienced the entire benefit of the action. In the second, the vast majority of NZ would feel better knowing that the walking turd received the treatment they would have liked to be administered.

    Nobody is looking to “solve” the problem. We cant change history.

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  146. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Alex: :) But having read the above dry old interchange I suspect a piss up organised by a journalist would be much more fun.

    As long as the scene was checked for microphones of course.

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  147. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Anything more than two sentences we all ignore Penny my dear.

    You were doing so well a couple of nights ago. :)

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  148. alex Masterley (1,498 comments) says:

    Johnboy.
    Don’t feed the wildlife.

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  149. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    I thought lawyers needed to eat too.

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  150. Kimble (4,406 comments) says:

    … ‘white collar’ CORRUPTION (and its root cause – PRIVATISATION) …’

    Yeah! Keep corruption where it belongs; Government!

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  151. Kimble (4,406 comments) says:

    Oh, and precisely which PRIVATISATION lead to this particular “‘white collar’ CORRUPTION”?

    The privatisation of investment? The privatisation of capital market operations? The privatisation of Directorships?

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  152. Elaycee (4,332 comments) says:

    @Lucia Maria:”Coddington won? You have got to be kidding.”

    Yup – true! She is clearly unhappy with the dirty tactics adopted by Labour and so she climbed in. Soper tried to shoot her down but on this occasion Coddington did better than hold her own. Must admit, I’m no fan of hers but this time she did well. But to be fair, she was up against a stalk – Soper is clearly a total leftie / fawns over Goff etc / thinks that the private conversation Key had with Banks should be released / thinks that Key is all bad because he has encouraged Epsom voters to be tactical and so on. Williams is simply mischief. And very good at it. He controlled things well. Soper was rattled and then he simply lost it. :D

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  153. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    I used to like her till she teamed up with a QC. :)

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  154. Steve (4,519 comments) says:

    Got emailed this:
    It is a slow day in a little Greek Village.
    The rain is beating down and the streets are deserted.
    Times are tough, everybody is in debt, and everybody lives on credit.
    On this particular day a rich German tourist is driving through the village, stops at the local hotel and lays a ¤100 note on the desk, telling the hotel owner he wants to inspect the rooms upstairs in order to pick one to spend the night.
    The owner gives him some keys and, as soon as the visitor has walked upstairs, the hotelier grabs the ¤100 note and runs next door to pay his debt to the butcher.
    The butcher takes the ¤100 note and runs down the street to repay his debt to the pig farmer. The pig farmer takes the ¤100 note and heads off to pay his bill at the supplier of feed and fuel.
    The guy at the Farmers’ Co-op takes the ¤100 note and runs to pay his drinks bill at the taverna.
    The tavern owner slips the money along to the local prostitute drinking at the bar, who has also been facing hard times and has had to offer him “services” on credit.
    The hooker then rushes to the hotel and pays off her room bill to the hotel owner with the ¤100 note.
    The hotel proprietor then places the ¤100 note back on the counter so the rich traveller will not suspect anything. At that moment the traveller comes down the stairs, picks up the ¤100 note, states that the rooms are not satisfactory, pockets the money, and leaves town.
    No one produced anything. No one earned anything. However, the whole village is now out of debt and looking to the future with a lot more optimism.

    And that, Ladies and Gentlemen, is how the bailout package works

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  155. Fletch (6,135 comments) says:

    Close Up – school closure – “what about the poor kiddies?”. That bad John Key…
    Why, it must be election week :)

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  156. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    The worm seems to be responding best for Phil. What a surprise. :)

    Interestingly it drops the fastest when the little, eyes-to-close together creep opens his gob. :)

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  157. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    This worm is a joke.
    Did you see the state of the selected audience of ‘undecided voters’ ?

    This has to be a set up.
    Note how the arse drops out of the worm by the time Key has said two words
    and climbs before Goff has said two words.

    The audience looked like a mixture of welfare recipients and students.
    Who picked them ?

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  158. Other_Andy (2,502 comments) says:

    @bereal

    TV3…
    A set up?
    Surely not….

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  159. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    You noticed that too Beryl.

    The eyes-too-close-together creep said they were a representative mob.

    How can we doubt one as wonderful as him?

    Perhaps he studied as a lawyer before being elevated to super-stardom. :)

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  160. Steve (4,519 comments) says:

    Had an email from Jolyon:

    Thanks for your feedback. I’ll also pass this onto my employer. Thanks for signing it. Most negative comments haven’t been signed. I’m in the process of writing an apology which will be available shortly.

    Jolyon.
    justice.anglicanlife@gmail.com
    When will we see this ‘apology’ Mr White?

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  161. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Sorry, someone has adjusted the gain control. They are all flat-lining now.

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  162. Lindsay Addie (1,155 comments) says:

    I watched the first segment and then stopped. Goff spent the whole time interrupting far too much…….

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  163. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Stop taking Communion Steve. That’ll rock the smug Anglican pricks. :)

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  164. Scott Chris (5,963 comments) says:

    A few more of Prince Phillip, Duke of Edinburgh’s famous utterances:

    >> “People usually say that after a fire it is water damage that is the worst. We are still drying out Windsor Castle.” To survivors of the Lockerbie bombings in 1993.

    >> “British women can’t cook.” Winning the hearts of the (feminist) Scottish Women’s Institute in 1961.

    >> “What do you gargle with – pebbles?” To Tom Jones, after the Royal Variety Performance, 1969. He added the following day: “It is very difficult at all to see how it is possible to become immensely valuable by singing what I think are the most hideous songs.”

    >> “It’s a vast waste of space.” Philip entertained guests in 2000 at the reception of a new £18m British Embassy in Berlin, which the Queen had just opened.

    >> “You ARE a woman, aren’t you?” To a woman in Kenya in 1984, after accepting a gift.

    >> “Do you know they have eating dogs for the anorexic now?” To a wheelchair-bound Susan Edwards, and her guide dog Natalie in 2002.

    >> “And what exotic part of the world do you come from?” Asked in 1999 of Tory politician Lord Taylor of Warwick, whose parents are Jamaican. He replied: “Birmingham.”

    >> “Do you still throw spears at each other?” Prince Philip shocks Aboriginal leader William Brin at the Aboriginal Cultural Park in Queensland, 2002.

    >> “So who’s on drugs here?… HE looks as if he’s on drugs.” To a 14-year-old member of a Bangladeshi youth club in 2002.

    >> “You could do with losing a little bit of weight.” To hopeful astronaut, 13-year-old Andrew Adams.

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  165. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Are you actually stalking the dear old Prince Scotty or do you just have a fetish regarding his Memorabilia?

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  166. Other_Andy (2,502 comments) says:

    ““Do you still throw spears at each other?” Prince Philip shocks Aboriginal leader William Brin at the Aboriginal Cultural Park in Queensland, 2002.”

    They do, actually….

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2004-03-24/aboriginal-man-breaches-bail-for-traditional/157496

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  167. meh (165 comments) says:

    the worm is a pile of crap, audience is stacked beyond belief.

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  168. BlueGriffon (204 comments) says:

    “You don’t sell your house to pay back the mortgage, John”

    Oh yes you do Phool, it is called a mortgagee sale and it is where we will be heading if your mob are left in charge of the finances again.

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  169. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Specially the little blondie on the far left meh! :)

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  170. BlueGriffon (204 comments) says:

    Good grief, JK gives exactly the same answer as Phil and the worm drops, ARGGGGGGGGGGGGG!

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  171. adze (1,982 comments) says:

    This worm loves astroturf!

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  172. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Wasn’t it touted by TV3 as “The Leaders Debate”. I thought it was going to be a debate between Goofy and Johnny.

    Never realised the funny little slit eyed creep fellow was a leader. He has had more to say than either of them.

    Time TV3 went bankrupt and we were spared from the waste of electricity they create. :)

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  173. BlueGriffon (204 comments) says:

    Me thinks the undecided voters are undecided as to whether they vote Labour or Green.

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  174. Steve (4,519 comments) says:

    Did not bother with the ‘worm’ just more crap from the MSM and the blind

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  175. Other_Andy (2,502 comments) says:

    I get it….
    It is a red wiggler worm!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenia_fetida

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  176. Other_Andy (2,502 comments) says:

    “And thanks to our panel of undecided voters…”
    Cough, cough…..

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  177. Scott Chris (5,963 comments) says:

    Yeh, the worm is red. Dead give away when it starts to move up before Phil’s even said more than a couple of words.

    Voters ain’t that dumb. Will probably galvanize support for Key.

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  178. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    The little eyes-too-close-together creep just said. “I think it’s been a true debate, first class”. :)

    What an utter little wanker.

    Much as it pains me to say it.

    Helen had his number many years ago. :) :)

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  179. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Got anymore dirt on the Duke Scotty? :)

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  180. BlueGriffon (204 comments) says:

    I heart Paul Henry!

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  181. meh (165 comments) says:

    indeed johnboy! paul henry “the studio audience looked like a bunch of greenies” heh..

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  182. reid (16,091 comments) says:

    So why is anyone surprised on a TV3 debate mediated by Campbell? What else did one expect?

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  183. Scott Chris (5,963 comments) says:

    Johnboy, yeah, I got a few more. 90 gaffes in 90 years:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ninety-gaffes-in-ninety-years-2290148.html

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  184. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    I haven’t watched any of the peoples channels since election 2008 till tonight.

    They haven’t fuckin improved! :)

    I’m bloody certain that funny little creeps eyes have moved an inch closer together since Helen called him! :)

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  185. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Your a marked man Scotty. The Beefeaters have you on their list! :)

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  186. Other_Andy (2,502 comments) says:

    reid

    “So why is anyone surprised on a TV3 debate mediated by Campbell? What else did one expect?”

    Come on reid
    It was completely unbiased.
    I also loved the unrelenting stream of Green and Labour adds and the trailer about the docu on “child Poverty” during the breaks.
    Do I need to add a “sarc off” in the end?

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  187. Steve (4,519 comments) says:

    Have a cup of tea and a lay down, fuck it. I think I deserve a nice drink.
    Campbell must have two cocks, he has two hands and uses both of them

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  188. nasska (10,868 comments) says:

    In a survey published by the Herald today, 64% of New Zealanders said they thought the recent Horizon Poll was rigged, 2% had no opinion, and 134% said they thought everything was above board.

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  189. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    Fucking lefties , how long I wonder did it take to find a worm that suffers from vertigo. And Goofy going on about child poverty, was the prick trying for an Oscar?

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  190. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    If you werent such a c**t Other_Andy you would be out with your twin brother Andy_Other picketing state houses so the evil capitalist bastards would have to stop throwing Mum and Dad struggler’s and battler’s out of their natural homes.

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  191. BlueGriffon (204 comments) says:

    Well Dunc says it was a draw therefore JK won. Yeah!

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  192. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Fuck nasska! My opinion has always been NO.

    Proud to be a two-percenter! :)

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  193. Scott Chris (5,963 comments) says:

    Nah Johnboy, I’ve got dirt on the steak munchers as well:

    The first ever female Beefeater, Moira Cameron was allegedly subjected to a hate campaign that saw her uniform defaced, sexually explicit notes left in her locker — and a web entry about her sabotaged.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2709282/Beefgate.html

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  194. Other_Andy (2,502 comments) says:

    Johnboy

    “If you werent such a c**t Other_Andy you would be out with your twin brother Andy_Other picketing state houses so the evil capitalist bastards would have to stop throwing Mum and Dad struggler’s and battler’s out of their natural homes.”

    Ouch, that hurts….
    You meanie!

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  195. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    Elaycee – what were you watching/listening to Soper get his arse kicked on? I’d love to watch/listen.

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  196. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Loosen up Scotty. I was just taking the piss. You can tell by this…… :)

    No need to run to the reference library!

    Sheeeesh.

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  197. Elaycee (4,332 comments) says:

    @RightNow – around 5.45pm with Larry Williams on NewstalkZB.

    Enjoy! :P

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  198. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    FES and Alex Masterly

    Thanks for that

    My reason for asking was a friend in the trade said he was surprised about how many trust accounts were found to have irregularities and these were members who were supervised to stop “irregularities “appearing again. Obviously this was not about thefts just bad managementthat made the trade look particuarly bad

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  199. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    “Trade”

    I like that name PEB.

    Suits all of its practitioners to a tee I would say. :)

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  200. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Time they started getting paid what their lowly trade deserves.

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  201. nasska (10,868 comments) says:

    A bloke and his missus were talking about the position they were going to try that night.
    “Tonight,” said the bloke, “we’re gonna lie back to back.”
    “That wouldn’t be much fun,” said the wife.
    “Sure it will,” replied the husband. “I’ve invited Bridget and John over to stay the night!”

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  202. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    Thanks Elaycee, I’ll have a search for it

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  203. Fletch (6,135 comments) says:

    Someone posted this to my facebook, not sure who did it :)

    Is Winston “Frankenstien”, with Key saying, “no matter what we do, it still lives!”

    http://i40.tinypic.com/2prsk5j.jpg

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  204. Viking2 (11,250 comments) says:

    Stop inmmediately. that talk is giving tradies a bad name. Grouping tradies with lawyers is detestable.
    Lawyers belong with polliticians and used car hacks who belong with leftist journo’s. Get the ladder right johnboy.

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  205. Viking2 (11,250 comments) says:

    Talking of Tradies here is a story of a trainee mechanic.

    THE GYNECOLOGIST WHO BECAME A MECHANIC

    (If you don’t laugh out loud on this one, your “laugher” is broken!)

    A gynecologist had become fed up with malpractice insurance and HMO paperwork, and was burned out. Hoping to try another career where skillful hands would be beneficial, he decided to become a mechanic.

    He went to the local technical college, signed up for evening classes, attended diligently, and learned all he could.

    When the time of the practical exam approached, the gynecologist prepared carefully for weeks, and completed the exam with tremendous skill.

    When the results came back, he was surprised to find that he had obtained a score of 150%. Fearing an error, he called the Instructor, saying, “I don’t want to appear ungrateful for such an outstanding result, but I wonder if there is an error in the grade?”

    “The instructor said, “During the exam, you took the engine apart perfectly, which was worth 50% of the total mark. You put the engine back together again perfectly, which is also worth 50% of the mark.” After a pause, the instructor added, “I gave you an extra 50% because you did it all through the muffler, which I’ve never seen done in my entire career”..

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  206. Viking2 (11,250 comments) says:

    Cosmetic Surgery

    Two older women were having lunch together, and discussing the merits of cosmetic surgery.

    The first woman said, “I need to be honest with you, I’m getting a boob-job.”

    The second woman responded, “Oh, that’s nothing. I’m thinking of having my arsehole bleached!”

    “Whoa,” replied the first woman. “I just can’t picture your husband as a blonde!”

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  207. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Stop inmmediately. that talk is giving tradies a bad name. Grouping tradies with lawyers is detestable.
    Lawyers belong with polliticians and used car hacks who belong with leftist journo’s. Get the ladder right johnboy.

    Sorry V2. I’ve been sidetracked elsewhere on the chemical blog! :)

    Lazybum and I are soulmates! :)

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  208. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Anyone else notice that in the final segment of the great TV3 debate when the 3 experts were giving their opinions
    the scene behind them was a picture of Plughead and Silent T.
    WTF was that all about ?

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  209. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Nah Beryl. We had all gone to sleep by then. :)

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  210. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Anyone been to the Stranded yet?

    The sound of one hand clapping must be deafening by now.

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  211. F E Smith (3,314 comments) says:

    PaulEB,

    sometimes people do get the trust accounting wrong. Doesn’t just happen to lawyers, though; a lot of occupations make use of them and the rules are often broken unintentionally. When you consider that there are over 11,000 lawyers in NZ, and most firms are made of of 4 or less lawyers then we actually do pretty damn well. A good part of it, I think, is that the Law Society is committed to having as high a standard of practise as possible, so I suppose that we get a bit more ‘hands on’ badgering than most other groups. So I think you would be correct to it being more bad management than anything more sinister. Still, even bad management can have severe consequences, hence the existence of the Lawyers Fidelity Fund.

    Alex and GPT1 would be in a far better place to comment than myself, however.

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  212. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    11,000 spare arseholes in poor old Godzone!

    Who’d have guessed?

    No wonder the place is in deepest shit. :)

    What was it now?

    From memory.

    $401,951,88

    Something like that. :)

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  213. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    I think they have all gone to bed Fester.

    You could talk to me of course but I guess you won’t.

    Wouldn’t look good a man of your importance debating with a tosser. :)

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  214. RightNow (6,836 comments) says:

    Lord Christopher Monckton,

    “Lord Monckton’s statement that he is a member of the House of Lords, albeit without the right to sit or vote, is unobjectionable. His claim is not a false or misleading claim. It is legitimate, proportionate, and reasonable. Likewise, Lord Monckton was correct when he wrote to the US Congress that ‘Letters Patent granting Peerages, and consequently membership [of the House of Lords], are the personal gift of the Monarch. Only a specific law can annul a grant. The 1999 Act was a general law.’ He legitimately drew attention to a parliamentary answer by no less a personage than the Leader of the House, making it plain that the Act was a general law and not a particular law that might have had the effect of revoking Letters Patent. We now have the recent authority of the High Court, in the Mereworth case, for Lord Monckton’s assertion that the 1999 Act did not revoke or annul his Letters Patent. Unless and until such revocation takes place, Lord Monckton remains a member of the House of Lords, and he is fully entitled to say so.”

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/20/dont-mock-the-monck/#more-51478

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