Not a happy camp at The Standard, but some interesting and scathing comments. For example:
Here’s the latest Labour release on the GCSB: PM clueless about GCSB’s snooping for Henry inquiry
In just a handful of paragraphs it manages to move from the claim Key is clueless to the claim he’s not only not clueless but is engaged in a Machiavellian plot to hide the truth. It’s not just not in line with any broader messaging (because there isn’t any), it doesn’t even have internal logical consistency. It’s the kind of thing I would use to illustrate what not to do when teaching basic media writing. And it’s gone out in David Shearer’s name on the most important political issue of the day.
It’s that kind of incompetence day after day after day that has got us to this point and I can’t see it getting any better. It’s not a matter of policy (left or right) that has determined Labour’s decline – it is simply the fact that nobody in there has any idea what they are doing.
That’s from longstanding Labour stalwart IrishBill.
Compared to Labour, the girls at my local intermediate school have a more mature, reasoned and constructive approach to the issues that matter in NZ today. They also speak more intelligibly than Mr Shearer. I’m surprised that Labour is polling so high. It’s politics are chunderous.
Hmm-first public poll with a 2 in front of it and from Roy Morgan, the poll the left loves to love. I note its polling period excludes the foreign buyer ban – you’d think someone in Shearer’s office would have the sense to time the one policy announcement that might’ve lifted his poll rating to be within the polling period of the one major poll that is polling fortnightly. Not sure which other media polls will come out before the next RM if any but you’d have to say Shearer’s on even thinner ice. Perhaps internal ideological excitement about the chanban will have stalled the efforts of Cunliffe, Little and Robertson. If the ABC coalition decides they can live with Little then their block might give him the numbers. I still think Cunliffe would carry the party but the plotters will be wanting to avoid the 40/40/20 election route at all costs.
Quite the opposite. It is now evident that Labour’s smoke & mirrors “growth” policies were actually establishing serious, long-term economic damage that is still causing problems today and into the future:
1. Soaring house prices leading to today’s issues (which Labour did precisely NOTHING to halt, and in fact actively encouraged)
2. Record power price increases (which Labour did precisely NOTHING to halt, and in fact actively encouraged)
3. Enabled the finance company timebomb (and did precisely NOTHING to avoid it)
4. Amemic capital market growth (partly a result of 1 and 3)
5. Record public sector bloat & waste
6. Tradable sector about to go into recession, years ahead of the GFC
And the list goes on. Mind you, Labour seems to regard the above as good things, except when they are in opposition!
Labour, the Greens, and NZ First have been obsessing about GCSB and Dotcom for months now. They think they are scoring points. But the fact is that these things are only an issue for the tin hat wearing moonbat community. They’re working themselves in to a froth worrying about spying, when it is pretty obvious to most people that the government are acting properly. It’s also ironic that the moonbats would love to actually be spied on, because that would be proof that they were important influencers rather than just lunatics.
The Labour / Commissar Norman ethnicity/nationality house purchase policy will appeal to the committed labour/red melons…. and possibly some petersparty2 folk. But the latter will like it because winniepooper likes it, not because they understand or agree with the policy. For the rest it is a load of cods.
The only other issue that gets significant media time is the GCSB game and associated matters. But that is really a game played only by political activists, cracademics, bloggers, and the media.
For the great unwashed the whole thing is simply burble that has not/will not affect them.
The two political groups most threatening for National continue to fiddle while their support base burns (so to speak).
So, I come back to the point that I made two weeks ago: It is the economy, the economy, the economy, STUPID.
That will determine outcome of the 2014 election.
But there is one potentially dangerous issue that could upset the most carefully laid National plans – the expected Geographic Board decision to recommend new names for the North and South islands (and Stewart?). If that group, which has been hijacked by the Maori invoice mob, and their academic fellow travellers, is not given a swift arse kick by Maurice Williamson I will be surprised and disappointed.
That issue could really piss off voters and reinforce underlying anti-Maori settlement sentiment.
I’m sure events in Australia won’t have escaped the notice of many in Labour, with ALP getting a little boost in the polls since KRudd rolled Juliar.
Rolling Shearer has to be looking like the only strategy left for NZ Labour.
BWAV – your plaintiff cry of “Jeez….10 thumbs down for stating the truth” will be matched by Labour today: “Jeez….29% in the polls for promoting sound, well-researched economic and social policy and focussing on the real issues rather than being Dotcom’s bitch”.
Question for BWAV: Does he stand by all his statements?
Over the weekend I sparred on the Facebook page of Inside Child Poverty NZ concerning their campaign over the GCSB Bill. There was wanton deceit and misinformation that, having some spare time, I weighed into and utterly refuted all the alarmist claptrap over the GCSB eventually tangling with site administrator Bryan Bruce. His response to truth and reason, to remove all my posts and block me – typical of the left – suppress dissent when faced with facts.
The left are clinging to a Kim Dotcom/GCSB life raft like it is some magic bullet with which they hope to destroy the government and the MSM are aiding and abetting as they too want to land that king hit. Listening to Norman, Shearer and Robertson’s tortuous questions in Parliament is testament to their desperation.
That’s right up there with “Labour left office with a sound economy”.
The reality is that National left office with a growing economy, with all the fundamentals in place so that Labour could take credit for the resulting growth. There were certainly a number of good years, but during those years Labour did a number of things (like spending the entireity of a massive surplus) which were good for them, but didn’t do the country a bit of good.
The stranded thread is hilarious – a mixture of ‘we are not radical enough, we need to be even more left’ combined with general antidemocratic disdain for voters and underlying theme that the population is too stupid to appreciate the brilliance of the alternative that Labour / greens offers.
Your average urban liberal moron.
Is measurably smarter than you average conservative suburban moron.
In fact the difference is such that you are comparing morons to normal people.
The Republican brain hypothesis. This idea relies on research that shows a negative correlation between political conservatism and the traits of open-mindedness and critical reflection. Those findings suggest that conservative cognition asymmetrically relies on fast rules of thumb to make decisions and that conservatives are less likely than liberals to engage in cognitive reflection. Consequently, while liberals evaluate information with the aim of developing useful public policies, mule-stubborn conservatives dismiss discomforting scientific facts and spend their time just ‘standing athwart history yelling Stop.’
Low-intelligence adults tend to gravitate toward socially conservative ideologies, the study found. Those ideologies, in turn, stress hierarchy and resistance to change, attitudes that can contribute to prejudice,
“Prejudice is extremely complex and multifaceted, making it critical that any factors contributing to bias are uncovered and understood,” he said.
Interesting to note too that Roy Morgan polled right up to Sunday 28th, so this polling period includes a time when there was widespread criticism of the GCSB Bill, the Dotcom meeting in Auckland and a series of protests around the country. Obviously Roy Morgan rang the wrong people, because ALL the parties campaigning against the GCSB Bill dropped; Labour, the Greens, Mana, NZF and the Maori Party.
Maybe it’s not such a big issue to Waitakere Man and his missus after all. I also note that Roy Morgan also discloses now that the poll is conducted on landlines AND cellphones, so all those accusations from Pete’s friends at The Standard that the RM poll is slanted towards rich pricks with landlines are debunked.
Manolo – He should, its the only way to get out with some reputation. But he should do so on his terms, and ensuring that his pick for leader is appointed by dumping all the shit he has on all other candidates.
For example, I see Gillard and the ministers who have resigned are openly dumping all over Rudd to bring him down, it’s not rocket science that Rudd will be gone as Labor leader in December. Gillard and co have enough sense to quit so they can’t be damage by Labor’s years in the wilderness.
KIA>I weighed into and utterly refuted all the alarmist claptrap over the GCSB
The misinformation is bizarre and hysterical at times. The strangest I’ve seen was by a journalist called Gordon Campbell who was seriously suggesting that Fletcher had been appointed GCSB Director because of his background in intellectual property. I think the implication was that digital rights enforcement was going to become one of GCSB’s core missions, rather than something that doesn’t interest them at all. But then Campbell seems to have drunk the Dotcom coolaid, having also decided that we can’t afford to extradite the fat fraudster since he’s going to build a submarine cable we can all use for free. Jesus weeps at this level of stupidity, but that (and a shared dislike of Chinese people) is underpinning the Labour-Green-NZ First election strategy.
Your Poverty people would love to be spied on. It would make them feel oppressed. It would make them feel edgy and cool, like they were taking on the man. It’d give them something to fight against. Because at the moment no one has heard of them, we don’t have any real poverty in NZ (altho we do have a problem with bad parenting), and they’re essentially irrelevant.
Labour, the Greens, and NZ First have been obsessing about GCSB and Dotcom for months now. They think they are scoring points. But the fact is that these things are only an issue for the tin hat wearing moonbat community
That’s the most creative use of the word “fact” that I’ve seen for a while.
According to numbers from Pew, 56 percent of Americans believe that Federal courts should do more to limit what telephone and Internet data the government can collect as part of anti-terrorism efforts. Seventy percent of those polled expressed concern that the government uses the data for purposes other than investigating terrorism.
Overall, 47 percent of those polled believed that the government has gone too far in restricting the average person’s civil liberties, while 35 percent were more concerned that policies have not gone far enough to protect the country. http://personalliberty.com/2013/07/30/public-lawmakers-must-seize-the-day-and-defeat-the-nsa/
The right / left is not Liberal /conservative.
Right is towards economic market freedom. Left towards command economics
Liberal is towards social freedom. Conservative is towards a controlled society
If you read the actual research at the source of these story’s it is conservatives who show a negative correlation to IQ.
Conservative refers to views on society not economics .
Neo liberal would be the closes descriptor for DPF and hence this blog
in response to a comment about a proposed tidy-up of laws
The issues are exactly the same, the misuse of information by security agencies. The facts that NZ has a close relationship to the US via the UKUSA agreement and that the problems for Key began with US involvement in crimes against Kim Dotcom are also relevant here.
I had a chuckle at your characterization of the Child Poverty folk yearning to be spied on. It’s why the Greens seem to hate the GCSB even more vehemently than Labour – because most of them probably have been spied on – but more likely by the SIS (important distinction as we now know!). Labour’s older front benchers know they are trampling all over the decades old careful bi-partisan conventions about legislating for and discussing intelligence issues – they are so politically desperate to kill Key that they’ll do anything to score points.
I rarely stray onto the Stranded but couldn’t resist a peak today after their favourite poll sported a sub 30 Labour result. Yep iit was pretty much as I expected. Lefty activists urging more ideological purity as the silver bullet to poll success, ‘change the leader’ as another whilst others urging better message discipline and accusing the media of being biased to National and in Key’s pocket (haha as if). They just can’t face the truth, both Labour and the Greens are out of step with middle NZ and a majority of voters, whilst probably disliking some of what National is doing, sees Key and his team as the safer pair of hands. Most NZers are starting to see some benefits from the improving economy and get a sense that NZ is doing better compared to most countries and that achievement in the face of the GFC and the Chch earthquakes is seen by many as evidence of a prescription that ought not be tampered with an experiment with a Labour/Greens mashup.
The issues are exactly the same, the misuse of information by security agencies.
The US government was found to be recording data on pretty much everything.
The NZ government was found to have spied on 80 people, at the behest of the NZ police who were investigating them, and that potentially those 80 were spied on illegally. Further analysis revealed that all were in fact legal. Maybe the police should not have been investigating them in the first place, but the GCSB’s assistance was fine.
Yes, there is overlap on broad issues of privacy. But to quote a US poll to say that the NZ issue is not of concern outside a few tinfoil hatted people is just plain silly, especially since you were doing it after calling into question someone’s use of the word “Fact”.
Someone named Winston Smith takes the piss advising the girly lprent’s crowd at The sub-Standard:
Don’t worry Labour supporters I have some ideas which are guaranteed to work:
1. Don’t change leaders, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it
2. Concentrate on beltway issues like the GCSB and Dot Con because thats what resonates with the man and woman on the street
3. Attack John Key because if you make him less popular National will suffer (don’t worry that it hasn’t happened yet keep flinging mud it’ll bound to stick sooner or later)
4. Labour really need a ratio of 50-50 male to female MPs to show how intune they are with the voters
5. More cuddling upto the Greens is needed
6. Whatever you do don’t show loyalty to the Leader
7. Banish the one person who could potentially foot it with John Key in a debate to the back benches
8. Keep underestimating John Key, hes only a money man hes obviously not that intelligent
So there you go, no need to thank me it was my pleasure
The US government was found to be recording data on pretty much everything.
The NSA is not the US government. The NSA has power over elected and appointed officials because of its ability to blackmail them. The fact that the NSA specifically targets such individuals was reported by NSA whistleblower Russ Tice.
But to quote a US poll to say that the NZ issue is not of concern outside a few tinfoil hatted people is just plain silly
So in your world it is silly to think that a poll of people in a country with a security relationship to NZ about a security issue is only of concern to “tinfoil hatters”?
Using the tinfoil hat label is well practiced technique which smears people who show that the state cannot be trusted to tell the truth about security matters. Trust in the state for protection is pretty much a matter of faith, and this is especially relevant considering the way in which the state misleads people about its own atheistic nature.
The problem with the leftist mob on The Stranded is that they think all these side issues – vitally important to themselves, and issues that define their very being – are of utmost importance to ordinary kiwis, when they’re not.
For example, a Labour Party against mining (working class jobs) is the stupidest position a Labour Party could take, yet they take it – with no sense of irony, whatsoever. Simply frame it as job creation, and it’s a winner. Leave the hippies to The Greens.
Redbaiter (4,090) Says:
August 1st, 2013 at 10:30 am
Funny how the red and blue lines are almost mirror images.
Suggesting there’s a bunch of fickle floating voters out there who don’t know their arse from their elbow. (like RRM)
Although it must be hard for your average urban liberal moron to know who to vote for when there’s so little real difference.
Eat this bitch:
Conservative 1.5% (NC) zero seats
Mana Party 1.0% (-0.5%) zero seats
That’s 2.5% public support and zero seats in favour of extremist lunatics with pie-in-the-sky policies for radical social engineering.
National 51.0% (+4.0%) 66 seats
That’s more than half the population of the country in favour of sensible nat government.
When you’re done eating all that, eat this:
If you’re quick you could still get on next wednesday’s flight to Singapore…
I kind of hope that what happens at the next election is something like the following.
National polls in the high 40s and gets over 55 seats. Labour polls in the mid 30s. The Greens get 11%. Winston First gets over the line. Labour+Green+NZF are one vote short of a majority. Shearer manages to cobble together a shambolic coalition with one extra vote from either Mana or the Maori party.
Labour’s internal ructions continue and the coalition all but collapses. Labour’s right-wing is strong enough to prevent the govt from totally fucking the country. After 2 years, Winston does a Winston and Cunliffe ousts Shearer. A snap election is called before it all falls apart.
National is reelected in a landslide and the public are scared away from left-wing parties for a decade.
I don’t see this result as much of a surprise given events during the time of fieldwork. A suggested coup and a man ban!
Given Shearer’s announcement on Sunday though and the significant public debate since, I think these results are fairly irrelevant as a current snap-shot of public sentiment. A week is a long time in blah blah blah…
New Zealand First revealed in Parliament yesterday that 5,500 parental reunion applications have been stockpiled at Immigration New Zealand because the Government is trying to conceal the number of parental reunion cases.
“The Minister is in China courtesy of China Southern Airlines, which is part of the Government’s shonky fast tracked visa scheme to allow Chinese gamblers quick access to Sky City Casino.
So National and Act both up (+4.5%) … Labour, Greens, NZF, Mana down (-4.5%) etc.
Whilst Labour has dropped below the “precarious” 30% level, I see the Greens are in a similar position by dropping to 10%, what effect would a future poll of them polling at 9% have on people’s perceptions of them? More importantly media and Green Party supporter perceptions?
I’d suspect privately, Wussel would be worried …. his grip on achieving the Deputy PM role would be further slipping away and people/media might start questioning his negative-campaign tactics (that of constantly playing the John Key blame game etc).