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November 20, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 November 2020

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General Debate

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PhilBest

Yep! Credentialled people are starting to say this, they just have to be very brave as well as honest
https://summit.news/2020/11/18/top-pathologist-claims-coronavirus-is-the-greatest-hoax-ever-perpetrated-on-an-unsuspecting-public/
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November 20, 2020 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  And good people are painfully slowly organizing the needed legal challenges
  
  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpOzHHJmy7g
  
  All absolutely correct. When big things are at stake, government SHOULD always “listen to both sides”. In fact the alarmists look like a small but organized cabal, they just have a megaphone from the media and Big Tech, and politicians get terrorized into “action” even more than their stupid people who they are supposed to represent.
  
  Also, this is not just a bit of honest disputing between equally well credentialed experts. This is criminal; it is honest experts versus criminals. The criminal experts know what they are doing, this is not mere incompetence. There were excuses months ago for uncertainty, but what they are doing with PCR tests now leaves no doubt about their deliberate criminality, it is a terrorist psy-ops project, not a public health and safety one at all.
  
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  November 20, 2020 8:06am
  - SB2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Philbert,
    
    “German Lawyer Sues The World Over Coronavirus”
    
    Sums things up perfectly and I hope Alex Jones invites him as a special guest on Infowars.
    
    LOL
    
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    November 20, 2020 8:25am
    - RJ
      
      Considering you were the one coming here and attacking, harassing and slandering anyone who posted anything about covid he earlier in the year, Alex Jones would be more likely to have you and your goats on his show
      
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      November 20, 2020 9:39am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Another day, another conspiracy.
    
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    November 20, 2020 8:59am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Another day and another person repeating the CIA’s disinformation mantra “Conspiracy Theory”, like Pavlov’s Dog. Woof Woof. 😉
      
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      November 20, 2020 11:06am
- Ruahine
  
  It certainly is in Auckland. Just because some silly or confused girl could not get her story correct.
  
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  November 20, 2020 8:22am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Yes, the nearly 2000 covid deaths in the US on Tuesday are just a figment of the imagination.
  
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  November 20, 2020 8:35am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Some points:
    
    1). I think your numbers are out a little on what you wanted to say.
    2). The tyranny of statistics. How does that compare to how many die each year of cancer, heart attacks/strokes etc?
    3). We always hear about the deaths – what about the recoveries – How many in the US during that same period overcame the WuFlu?
    4). Is the per death rate coming down or going up? I’m confused as I don’t see anyone in the MSM commenting on this.
    
    I note with amusement the number manipulation that goes on the justify ends with this virus. Covid Derangement System (CDS) has a lot of acolytes.
    
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    November 20, 2020 8:43am
    - SGA
      
      Here you go, Frank the Tank – 12-month US figures from
      https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/leading-causes-of-death.html
      
      Heart disease: 655,381
      Cancer: 599,274
      Accidents (unintentional injuries): 167,127
      Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 159,486
      Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 147,810
      Alzheimer’s disease: 122,019
      Diabetes: 84,946
      Influenza and pneumonia: 59,120
      Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 51,386
      Intentional self-harm (suicide): 48,344
      
      Currently, running to a year ending March 2020 to March 2021 (when Covid really took hold in the USA) we are looking at what 330,000 – 350,000 deaths? That’s assuming an average of 800 to 1000ish deaths a day for the next 100 days (currently the daily total is nearly 2000/day, and weekly averages have be over 700/day for months now).
      
      Anyone remember when people were comparing Covid-related deaths to influenza and car accidents? Now we are comparing it to all cancers or all heart diseases 🙂
      
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      November 20, 2020 9:47am
      - C J Southern
        
        I remember calculating the percentage of world deaths that were due to COVID-19 a few months ago; it was 1.79%.
        
        As of right now it’s 2.61% – and climbing.
        
        But at the end of the say it’s not a competition; for someone who’s just lost someone to COVID-19 I’m sure it’s cold comfort to know that “lots of other people died of lots of other things” the same day”.
        
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        November 20, 2020 10:50am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        just thinking…
        Those that have both
        Heart disease and covid19?
        Cancer and covid19
        Chronic lower respiratory diseases and covid19
        Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases) and covid19
        etc etc
        did covid19 kill them, or hasten the inevitable?
        
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        November 20, 2020 11:30am
      - SGA
        
        Not sure how you could ascertain that easily, RW.
        Probably you’d have to wait until the 12 months were over and look at the reductions in the rates of the others. I imagine there are issues with comorbidity in general – diabetes and heart disease say, influenza is probably more deadly if you have chronic respiratory disease. And you’d have to factor in what you call “inevitable” (which all death is) – you can live for quite some time with respiratory diseases such as emphysema, chronic bronchitis, asthma, pulmonary hypertension, and occupational lung diseases say, but all would make you more vulnerable to influenza, pneumonia or Covid19, I imagine.
        
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        November 20, 2020 12:57pm
    - C J Southern
      
      “1). I think your numbers are out a little on what you wanted to say.”
      
      Daily deaths in the US for the last reported period were 1971.
      
      https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
      
      “2). The tyranny of statistics. How does that compare to how many die each year of cancer, heart attacks/strokes etc?”
      
      That’s irrelivant; it’s not a competition. Losing a loved one to COVID-19 isn’t made any easier just because more people have died from other causes.
      
      “3). We always hear about the deaths – what about the recoveries – How many in the US during that same period overcame the WuFlu?”
      
      If by “WuFlu” you mean COVID-19 then the answer is 79,125; again, that’s irrelivant. I doubt that it’s much comfort to the families of the 1971 people who dies of COVID-19 in the US in the reporting period for 24 hours ending yesterday are particularly comforted by the face that 70,125 recovered.
      
      4). Is the per death rate coming down or going up? I’m confused as I don’t see anyone in the MSM commenting on this.
      
      If by “death rate” you’re meaning the CFR (Case Fatality Rate) it’s coming down; largely because it was artificially high to start with due to the fact that when someone dies they’re counted as a death statistic immediately but there is a delay of around 2 weeks before someone who recovers can be counted as having recovered.
      
      It’s also coming down because of advances in understanding how to treat it (treatment protocols etc). You’re right; YOU are confused and YOU don’t see anyone in the MSM commenting on it (right again!) because you have a closed mind on the topic and wouldn’t see it if it were written on a sign 10 feet tall attached to a pole and you were hit over the head with it.
      
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      November 20, 2020 10:37am
      - Frank the tank
        
        Based off your analysis we should ban cars because the millions that drive each day without being killed is cold comfort to the small number of families that have a loved one that is killed in a motor accident.
        
        Not a competition? No it isn’t although imagine the advances in cancer treatment if the money being spent on ‘wuflu’ was spent on cancer treatment….but of course it’s not a competition (sic). Economically surely we should be putting more resources into the bigger killer/more deadly illness.
        
        So less than 3% of cases reported result in a fatality – wouldn’t it be better to report 97% of people make a recovery. Better still let’s assume that number (deaths) is overstated due to the number of unreported cases. We could be down to less than 1% fatality per case.
        
        Finally after your emotional last sentence it is more you than me that needs to ‘open’ your mind. None of your arguments have swayed my views even in the slightest but for sake of it let’s agree to disagree.
        
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        November 20, 2020 11:51am
  - artemisia
    
    With or from?
    
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    November 20, 2020 8:45am
  - Simon
    
    Respiratory deaths rise in northern countries at this time of year. Key question is the usual ‘of’ or ‘with’, hard to work out when only one disease is being tested for.
    
    https://twitter.com/ClarkeMicah/status/1329030233702404096
    
    The Wuhan sniffles death modeling that the Ardern government relied upon in March. 80,000 deaths are a figment of some bunch of crack pot imagination.
    
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    November 20, 2020 8:46am
    - pjay
      
      Not really a figment – if the modellers were asked by the spin-doctors – “how bad could this virus get?” – they’d max out the computer model parameters, press recalculate and viola “80,000 could die” – this is the same as the global warming modelling.
      
      Further back GW Bush and his weapons off mess distraction said that “A nuclear tipped ballistic missile could reach London from Teheran in 45 minutes” – true – but you have to have one and be able to deploy it – none of which Hussein had – but, it did the trick
      
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      November 20, 2020 10:24am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Same as Al Gore’s “6m of sea level rise by 2015”.
      What he didn’t say was…every Kg of ice in the world would have to melt…including the blocks in your
      G & T.
      
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      November 20, 2020 11:33am
      - Unity
        
        “What he didn’t say was…every Kg of ice in the world would have to melt…including the blocks in your
        G & T”
        
        Please forgive my ignorance but I’m going by a glass of water, for instance. If it freezes it seems to expand, so on that basis, if all of the ice in the world melted, wouldn’t the sea level decrease, not increase?!!
        
        Perhaps I’m missing something here or have got the wrong end of the stick?
        
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        November 20, 2020 1:48pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        @Unity
        
        A lot of the ice (Antarctic and Greenland) is above sea level …..
        
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        November 20, 2020 2:47pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Unity
        Only 9/10ths of ice actually displaces water.
        also much of the ice is actually on land and displacing zero water.
        ie the north pole ice would only displace and extra 1/10th of it’s total volume
        also true of all burgs and ice flows
        However 100% of the land based ice would disperse and cause sea level rise.
        BUT
        With the temp rise, water would evaporate to vapor and volumes would fall again.
        Fresh water would then precipitate onto the land, since fresh water freezes at a lower temp than salt water, land based ice would increase, indicating that sea levels would fall and lake levels will rise.
        Does your head hurt yet????
        Summary
        They don’t have a fucking clue what is going to happen and are just attempting to frighten the population into handing money to the politicians, so they can play their sick monopoly game with it.
        
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        November 20, 2020 3:53pm
  - Andrei
    
    330 Million people live in the USA and every single one of them will die eventually
    
    Over 6000 people die every single day in the USA day in day out Dr Mapp.
    
    We could count up how may of these 6000 watched CNN and keep cumalitive total of CNN watchers who have died this year and make it seem like watching CNN is very dangerous which it is – to your intellect!
    
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    November 20, 2020 8:57am
    - Batman
      
      Oh great, everyone dies eventually so let’s let millions die now! No harm done right??
      
      What a ghoulish individual you are. Though it fits given you’re our local KGB representative.
      
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      November 20, 2020 9:36am
      - Andrei
        
        The people allegedly dying of Covid almost universally are people already in the latter stages of terminal illnesses – which is why the overall mortality rates for 2020 are not significantly different from the mortality rates for 2019 and are lower in most nations for the 2018 mortality rates when there was a virualent flu strain
        
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        November 20, 2020 9:44am
      - Batman
        
        Bahahaha get the fuck outta here with that “almost universally” crap.
        
        A good bout of Covid and some time on a respirator to think about your views might be beneficial.
        
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        November 20, 2020 9:50am
      - theoldbloke
        
        Batman
        Its called perspective.
        Only people with a vivid imagination might think ghoulish.
        
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        November 20, 2020 9:52am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Though it fits given you’re our local KGB representative.
        
        Вы уверены?
        
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        November 20, 2020 10:21am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        “Oh great, everyone dies eventually so let’s let millions die now! No harm done right??”
        We do, it has various names
        War
        Starvation
        Malaria
        Ebola
        
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        November 20, 2020 11:35am
      - Frank the tank
        
        I’d argue mandatory mark and tracer app usage more equates to a communist police state than taking an objective stance to Covid fatalities.
        
        Each to their own.
        
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        November 20, 2020 11:55am
  - backster
    
    Yes plus over 7000 deaths daily from other causes.
    https://ritholtz.com/2020/04/leading-daily-cause-of-death/
    
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    November 20, 2020 9:01am
    - C J Southern
      
      So what? It’s not a competition FFS.
      
      If your loved one dies of COVID-19 it will be little comfort that lots more people died from other things on the same day.
      
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      November 20, 2020 10:42am
  - Inandout
    
    It is OK Wayne, the Dems on the streets and Governers attending intimate 10 person dinner parties (all maskless) are immune. There are many cases of higher ups telling you one thing and doing the exact opposite in their own world.
    
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    November 20, 2020 9:33am
    - Frank the tank
      
      As are selfies during the election campaign when you are calling for social distancing.
      
      It’s ok when the left do it.
      
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      November 20, 2020 11:57am
  - Nickc2
    
    Died with or died of?
    
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    November 20, 2020 9:33am
    - Batman
      
      Speed doesn’t kill you, hitting the power pole kills you.
      
      Do we blame people speeding, or do we blame power poles?
      
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      November 20, 2020 9:46am
      - Nickc2
        
        Spurious argument, no relevance whatsoever.
        
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        November 20, 2020 10:59am
      - Frank the tank
        
        Knowing worksafe they would fine the power poll company so poor choice of example.
        
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        November 20, 2020 11:59am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        False dichotomy. They clearly both contribute in that case. Otherwise fit and healthy people who die solely from Covid (which is the scenario used as the pretext for all of these draconian “anti-Covid” measures) and absent any other contributing factor are close to zero. This is why they don’t break the numbers down, because this would expose the fallacy in their argument. Protecting the vulnerable and the rest of us getting on with our lives would seem logical and reasonable, however, the universally applied measures clearly indicate that this is not about protection from a virus.
        
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        November 20, 2020 3:09pm
    - Unity
      
      Nickc2, To me that’s the crucial question so as to put everything into perspective. I don’t think we are getting a proper perspective of the whole dreadful mess. There’s nothing to compare figures to.
      
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      November 20, 2020 1:52pm
  - Ruahine
    
    So they say.
    
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    November 20, 2020 9:49am
  - JackRabbit
    
    According to the CDC on;y 6% of deaths WITH Covid are death BY Covid.
    
    On a weekly basis they are recording 4-5000 deaths with. The stats for weekending 14/11 are not even in yet, so I doubt the figure of 2000 for Tuesday when the CDC have not released the full stats from the previousweek.
    
    But let’s say 4282 which was the week ending 7/11. 4282 / 7 = 611 per day. times 6% = 37 deaths BY Covid-19 per day. 2000/37 = 54. Big difference.
    
    If you believe that, come for a ride in my neighbour’s 1971 Holden V8. Its so economical, you might want to buy it. It does 850 miles per gallon. 😉
    
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    November 20, 2020 11:17am
- barnacle bill
  
  That is not one of your Best postings there Phil.
  
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  November 20, 2020 8:44am
- Nick R
  
  Never mind that. I want to know when the gravity conspiracy will be exposed. For centuries we have been repressed by so-called gravity, but we all know it’s a hoax by a cabal of Templars and Illuminati. The so-called scientific consensus on “gravity” is a lie and a fraud. End the gravity conspiracy now! Make mankind weightless again!
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:26am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What scientific consensus on “gravity”? I have recently seen the most obscure articles on it. The exploration of the physics behind the new sources of energy is mind boggling. The Higgs boson, blamed for providing mass, may even be an imposter.
    
    Science is never settled–a contemporary state of opinion may exist but the ferment is the science. Facts are temporary, unless provided by journalists when they are never ending.
    
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    November 20, 2020 11:12am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Indeed…
      
      after all this time of planets orbiting stars, apples falling to the ground, and pupils
      learning F = Gm1m2/r2,
      you’d have think we’d have figured out gravity.
      https://phys.org/news/2020-01-gravity-wrong.html
      
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      November 20, 2020 12:08pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I’m leaving my comments on the new energy till later. It’s at the Edison stage and commercial revelations are expected any time.
        
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        November 20, 2020 1:35pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        yes…interesting, but to be asymmetric i would assume that the subatomic “particle ” would have to be acted apon by an equally asymmetric force, from where?Does this force have to be gravity? or could it be electrostatic? Since there is no practical way of separating the force of electrons or protons from the equation entirely, I assume we need to look at Neutrons as being the smallest particles to date that could be researched to “prove” this theory as small subnuclear particles are largely “discovered”by theoretic statistics.
        Electrons also are “positioned” by theoretical statistics and rate of spin.
        Here is where the maths gets really heady.
        
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        November 20, 2020 4:14pm
  - alloytoo
    
    I think you’ll find gravity is an observed reality. For which there is /are theoretical explanations.
    
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    November 20, 2020 6:14pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  If Cindy says virus is a threat and won a landslide on the back of it, who is to question that bro?
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:50am
  - Scooter
    
    And it’s tricky!!
    
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    November 20, 2020 9:28pm
iMP

OOPs, I see NEW CONSERVS have sacked their leader.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/19-11-2020/coup-conservatives-leader-ousted-to-make-way-for-outspoken-elliot-ikilei/

It was definitely a coup. Within minutes, Leighton Baker (Leadr #2) who has held the job only 20 days short of Colin Craig)
had vanished visually from all NC media up till now plastered with his image, videos and photos. Even Wikipaedia.
So this was planned. Spinoff reports from a disgruntled member of “internal ructions.” They’ll be an investigation to find that “leak.”

The official Board press release was not kind… “have RELIEVED Leighton Baker of the leadership.”

Baker himself completely resigned from the party and its board months before the Craig shenanigans, so his commitment was mercurial at best.

What goes around comes around. It was always a personality cult, and now with a rather crazy (admitted) confrontational style 3rd Leader
(have you seen their new leader’s bizarre wide-eyed videos?) they would careen off the cliff of political oblivion, if they weren’t already at the bttm scraping.

Craig: 3 years, 10 months, 16 days
Baker: 3 years, 9 months, 26 days.
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November 20, 2020 8:00am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Don’t care. Hardly anybody does.
  
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  November 20, 2020 8:13am
- Scott
  
  iMP – not sure where you are coming from on this scathing post? The conservative party ran as new conservative to distance themselves from the problems that Colin Craig had. Leighton Baker was a sensible chap who did his best to lead the party into an election that was ultimately decided by Covid and the resulting red wave.
  
  He has been replaced after the election by his number two Elliott Ikeili who seems like a good choice. Parties often change leaders after an unsuccessful campaign and so nothing out of the ordinary here in my opinion.
  
  I do think there is an audience for a conservative message that talks about pride in country, valuing your heritage and cares about mum and dad and the kids.
  
  My sense of the party was that they did not have a compelling economic message to go with their social message. And Leighton Baker although a sound fellow, was not a particularly charismatic front man.
  
  But I do think a party with sound social values and an economic message focused on looking after New Zealand workers could do very well. Certainly national was concerned about losing its conservative voters. Hence Judith Collins mentioning that she is a Christian and being photographed praying in a church were efforts by national to shore up their more traditional base.
  
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  November 20, 2020 8:25am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Censoring porn was never a vote winner.
    
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    November 20, 2020 12:02pm
    - muppeth8r
      
      doing the right thing never is.
      
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      November 20, 2020 3:38pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  Meet the new New Conservative Party leader, Elliot Ikilei:
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-ozCnqjCqE
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLhMsKxQE4Q
  
  Clearly a “crazy” personality cult leader if I’ve ever seen one. And most likely an unhinged “white supremacist” to boot… ? /S
  
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  November 20, 2020 8:27am
  - Yabster
    
    what have you been smoking, he’s of pasifika? First video he is just saying don’t have race based policies- how can anyone disagree with that?
    
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    November 20, 2020 9:54am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      you do know that /s means sarcasm, right?
      
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      November 20, 2020 10:47am
    - Critical Thinker
      
      Sarcasm can be tricky to convey these days. Even with a rolling eyes emoji and /S
      
      I personally think that Elliot Ikilei is an impressive individual, especially when dealing with our corrupt media. And that he will also be a great leader of the New Conservatives. Which is why I personally voted for the New Conservative party in the election, due to his very staunch advocacy of free speech ??
      
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      November 20, 2020 11:02am
      - Yabster
        
        my apologies no i did not know that emoj /s meant sarcasm
        
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        November 20, 2020 12:25pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  It is high time, NC is dissolved. They are not going to make any impact even if GOD becomes their leader.
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:51am
mikenmildagain

Happy World Children’s Day!
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November 20, 2020 8:01am
- Gravelroad
  
  Quick, let’s alert the children working in the lithium mines in Africa that this is their day!
  Meanwhile, back in perfect NZ, how many babies and toddlers will be bashed today by inadequate adults?
  Won’t even mention the children being sold as sex slaves……..
  
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  November 20, 2020 8:19am
  - SGA
    
    Well, I suppose not having a World Children’s Day wouldn’t help them either. I suppose one could argue that it’s led you to remind us of the awful lot of some children, and that’s a good thing.
    (for the record, I find a lot of the World ZZZ Day a bit silly too, so does m’n’m I imagine which is part of the reason he likes to post them)
    
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    November 20, 2020 8:53am
    - Mike
      
      I just hope Gravrlroad will take this as a reminder that he, like all of us, could do better at making a good life for all the world’s children.
      
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      November 20, 2020 4:13pm
  - sooty
    
    Along with the children attending labour party camps!
    
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    November 20, 2020 9:32am
- pdm
  
  I suppose Jacinda will visit more Kindys than usual today.
  
  Her captive audience.
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:31am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Shoudl I remind you about 50% that includes Farmers, Small Business owners and the sheeple of Taranaki?
    
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    November 20, 2020 9:52am
    - Frank the tank
      
      Lol. So true. Lol.
      
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      November 20, 2020 12:04pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    It’s Friday… I don’t think she does Fridays.
    
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    November 20, 2020 10:23am
artemisia

Brian Fallow in the Herald today (paywalled) has a go at public housing providers, suggesting “The Government, it seems, is a slumlord”.

But major problems with poor housing are especially — and shamefully — prevalent among the 5 per cent of kids in public rental housing, just under a third of whose mothers reported a major problem with heating and a quarter with dampness or mould.

So thousands of public housing tenants paying cheap as chips rent can’t afford electricity or gas for heating to the extent it is a ‘major problem’. Assuming this is self reported, have to ask what is going on in those households.

Dampness and mould – some of that might be down to the landlord, and should of course be remediated. The Tenancy Services website has a lot to say about damp and mould, and who is responsible for what. One list is a lot longer than the other.

Nowadays it is quite usual to blame somebody else and expect them to pay. Too hard to knock on the door to find out what is going on, why, and would a reminder about responsibilities help?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/brian-fallow-government-could-help-the-kids-and-hit-the-landlords/Q7ZSYTMNESB5GD64R5EGO7WT6E/
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November 20, 2020 8:05am
- theoldbloke
  
  Another clickbate opportunity by the Horrid.
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:53am
mortis

Is it any surprise the police union start persecuting licenced firearms holders to distract the public from the fact they didn’t do their job.
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November 20, 2020 8:06am
KevO'Brien

MAKING A HEADLINE-considering what might have happened at a meeting of a secret national security council meeting, or such like, and reporting it as fact.
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/17/935886813/trump-considers-potential-actions-he-might-take-against-iran-before-his-term-end
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November 20, 2020 8:11am
- SB2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Wouldn’t put it past Trump to go out with a whopping big bang and try and armed invasion of Iran or even Nuke the country.
  
  2 35
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  November 20, 2020 8:30am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Wouldn’t put it past SB2 to make another stupid unhinged comment.
    
    25 2
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    November 20, 2020 10:19am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Note: the cases reported as lost for Trump to date have nearly all not been official and the parties “lacked standing”. Effectively they may not have had legal credentials recognised by that Court or did not have the authority to present a case on behalf of Trump or whoeverer without their personal sign off. Our Courts work a similar way–it stops busybody bush lawyers. Try it and see–file a case against the Attorney General for Ihumatao and watch the Judge’s response.
  
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  November 20, 2020 1:31pm
Nukuleka

Ooh you naughty racist having a go at Elliot Ikilei’s wide-eyes. That’s racial stereotyping of the worst type iMP. I shall report you to your mates at the Race Relations Commission or at the very least tell Jacinda on you.

Elliot Ikilei by the way is one of the few sane voices in our insane political landscape. And I think his eyes are rather cute. So there.
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November 20, 2020 8:12am
I remember when

Is the potential Labour Party problem starting to become obvious already.
If you have a leader like Jacinda you like to use every opportunity to show their skills.
Are we going to see the Prime Ministerial address every anniversary of a serious loss of life?
Parts of the Pike River remembrance speech were, I thought, at best jarring.
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November 20, 2020 8:13am
- Ruahine
  
  She is probably so busy working on her speech right now though of why I am banning ANZAC Day parades in 2021.
  
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  November 20, 2020 8:25am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Did I miss her pronouncements and endorsement of International Mens Day yesterday?
  
  Inhabiting the same shallow end of the carpark puddle as Hillary Barry
  
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  November 20, 2020 8:37am
- SGA
  
  Every anniversary? I can’t remember what happened for the 7th, 8th, 9th for Pike River. I imagine 11th will be similar to them. I also imagine that there will be a PM address/statement on the 10th anniversary of the Chch earthquake. Is it really that odd? I sort of think that the people of Chch might welcome, even expect, some kind of acknowledgement from someone like the PM?
  
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  November 20, 2020 8:38am
  - sooty
    
    She missed Cave Creek!
    
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    November 20, 2020 9:34am
    - Paulus
      
      Wasn’t Cave Creek under National’s watch and did not the relevant Minister resign.
      
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      November 20, 2020 1:55pm
  - alwyn
    
    I’m sure she will be down on the West Coast on 26 March next year though.
    That is the 125th anniversary of the worst mine disaster in New Zealand’s history.
    All 65 people who were underground died.
    How will she be able to resist the opportunity?
    
    Actually I have asked her to come over and visit my granddaughter. Her cat died and the poor little girl is bereft. I expect the Limo will turn up at her home to bring the provider of all solace to visit her.
    
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    November 20, 2020 10:49am
SB2

Now that things are settling down nicely I certainly hope that the President elect is ignoring Trump and his followers continued chicanery regarding voting fraud.

For me things were summed up at that protest rally in Washington DC where that idiot Alex Jones could be heard raving loudly about Qanon’s central tenant that a Pedophile Cabal is behind the so called rigged election.

Most reassuring I thought Just let Joe Biden quietly get on with things allowing us looking forward to the 20th January 2021 where the multitudes turning up can breathe a collective sigh of relief as Trump and his minions provide a comical footnote in US political history.
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November 20, 2020 8:21am
- Ruahine
  
  Bidens friends are certainly ‘quietly getting on with thiings’.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/300163234/china-says-nz-other-five-eyes-nations-should-face-reality-on-hong-kong
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:37am
- RJ
  
  There is no president elect, might want to understand how usa elections work and when someone becomes the president elect
  
  [Mod: enough with the antagonising]
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:42am
  - MCos
    
    Biden is the presumptive president elect.
    He becomes the president elect when the Electoral College meets in Dec.
    All this jiggery pokery by the Republicans isn’t going to change anything – this time, but you may recall Trump set the scene in 2016 by grizzling about fake votes.
    Our system here is ripe for accusations of fraud next time when the voting will undoubtedly be much closer. Particularly if specials swing the balance.
    Last two elections the Nats have lost 2 seats when specials were counted. How suspect is that, eh?
    
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    November 20, 2020 10:41am
  - C J Southern
    
    Or better still, YOU might like to learn that.
    
    Here – I’ll point you in the right direction:
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President-elect_of_the_United_States
    
    Here’s an example from Barack Obama showing how it works in practice (on 11 Nov 2016)
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzSK2gAkdD8
    
    I’ll quote the first part for you …
    
    “Well I just had the opportunity to have an excellent conversation with president elect Trump …”
    
    So can we please just stop with this stupidity about Biden “not being a president elect yet”; there’s nothing in the US constitution about it and it’s currently being used just as it always has been.
    
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    November 20, 2020 11:03am
    - RJ
      
      The media do not select the winner of the president, there is no president elect until the vote on December 14th, and while there are legal cases being heard that contest the results, whether you like it or not there is no clear winner until those cases are resolved .
      
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      November 20, 2020 2:38pm
      - Batman
        
        I look forward to this argument the next time a GOP candidate wins the presidency.
        
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        November 20, 2020 4:35pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Best you school Obama on his “mistake” …
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzSK2gAkdD8
        
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        November 20, 2020 5:19pm
  - RJ
    
    Rubbish [ If you have a beef about moderation, send it off to DPF ]
    
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    November 20, 2020 2:44pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Listen to this–2hrs 35 of the President’s legal Team today presenting their case to the public:
  https://noqreport.com/2020/11/19/confidence-exudes-from-trump-attorneys-during-press-conference-laying-out-evidence/
  
  Moral: don’t get to cocky about the outcome of any legal action.
  
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  November 20, 2020 11:21am
Simon

Hillary Clinton says Trump should not concede the election ‘under any circumstances

WASHINGTON — Hillary Clinton said in a new interview that Donald Trump should not concede the 2020 presidential election “under any circumstances,” anticipating issues that could prolong knowing the final outcome.

“Donald Trump should not concede under any circumstances, because I think this is going to drag out, and eventually I do believe he will win

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/hillary-clinton-says-biden-should-not-concede-2020-election-under-n1238156
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November 20, 2020 8:28am
- Batman
  
  Oh Simon you poor little thing, you’ve provided the counter to your own argument in the literal strapline of the article:
  
  “The former Democratic presidential nominee predicted Republicans could try to “mess up absentee balloting” for a narrow advantage in the Electoral College.”
  
  And then
  
  “We’ve got to have a massive legal operation, I know the Biden campaign is working on that,” she said. “We have to have poll workers, and I urge people, who are able, to be a poll worker. We have to have our own teams of people to counter the force of intimidation that the Republicans and Trump are going to put outside polling places. This is a big organizational challenge, but at least we know more about what they’re going to do.”
  
  And wouldn’t ya know, the GOP and the Trump campaign and trying to fuck around with mail ballots! Shocking….
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:29am
- C J Southern
  
  “Hillary Clinton says Trump should not concede the election ‘under any circumstances”
  
  No. She doesn’t (even the URL gives it away).
  
  But hey – “congrats” on taking KiwiBlog just that one step closer to being regarded as a full-blown conspiracy site.
  
  I really wish you lot would just grow up.
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:42am
  - oldfella
    
    I read that as Simon taking the piss. 😉
    Switching around Clinton’s advice to Biden to make it sound like she’s telling Trump not to concede.
    Made me smile. But maybe I’m easily amused.
    
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    November 20, 2020 10:34am
    - curry4me
      
      oldfela: Yeah, I assumed bodily fluids were being etracted too.
      
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      November 20, 2020 4:04pm
  - oob
    
    I really wish you lot would just grow up.
    
    Well said, C J Southern.
    
    1 2
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    November 20, 2020 4:59pm
- Yabster
  
  what a fool- you should be banned for misleading information on your post- she said in the article Biden shouldn’t concede.
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:59am
  - C J Southern
    
    I agree. Posting irrational opinion probably comes under the guise of “free speech” – but deliberately altering something crosses a line.
    
    It’s no “joke”; especially since the US election there’s been a clear deterioration in the quality of comments posted here. The site appears to be quite measurably shifting from one where a like-minded bunch of centre-right people have a general grumble about the stupidity of the woke left” to one that’s now not far short of being a conspiracy site. And that’s disturbing.
    
    Perhaps at a minimum consider reporting that post.
    
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    November 20, 2020 11:23am
    - fernglas
      
      It’s the posting equivalent of putting a moustache on the PM’s election poster, and marginally less humorous
      
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      November 20, 2020 1:19pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Nope – what it really is is one more step in the direction of KB becoming a full-blown conspiracy site.
        
        1 4
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        November 20, 2020 5:22pm
Simon

2020 election fraud. Bigly. Let see what the Federal courts have to say about crooked Dem run elections.
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November 20, 2020 8:30am
- C J Southern
  
  The only election fraud that’s occuring in the US is the one Trump and his lot are attempting to inflict on the people.
  
  Thank goodness the courts aren’t as stupid as those who believe Trump’s baseless claims.
  
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  November 20, 2020 10:13am
iMP

Jacinda gets a UN $210k award for….?

Obama gets a Nobel Peace Prize for…?
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November 20, 2020 8:33am
- igm
  
  Vomit-inducing socialist crap!
  
  28 2
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  November 20, 2020 8:51am
  - SB2
    
    igm, most profound even by your standards!
    
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    November 20, 2020 9:52am
- rouppe
  
  I know!
  
  Quite how she improved the lives of people in the US has escaped me
  
  18 0
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  November 20, 2020 9:20am
- mark15
  
  Feelz n fuck all else.
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:23am
- MCos
  
  PM Ardern’s award came from the Harvard University.
  The same place Doctor Shane Reti conducted research at after being awarded a Harkness Fellowship.
  
  8 4
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  November 20, 2020 9:25am
  - Sacha
    
    @ MCos: I get your implication. However I guess Dr Reti probably conducted his research in a different department to the one which awarded the PM her prize.
    Let’s try not to smear by association, eh? It looks petty, to put it kindly.
    
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    November 20, 2020 10:56am
    - MCos
      
      I’m not smearing anyone.
      Collins made a fuss of Reti’s association with Harvard because it’s a prestigious US university.
      The award Ardern received was also from Harvard. It didn’t suddenly stop being prestigious.
      
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      November 20, 2020 1:21pm
  - HeatherW
    
    Not quite the same place. Award is from Harvard Kennedy School, the training place for politicians. To JA’s credit, monetary prize is being converted to a scholarship for a New Zealander at HKS.
    
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    November 20, 2020 12:19pm
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      And that of course will be open to applicants of all political persuations and the sucessful applicant selected on merit?
      
      6 0
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      November 20, 2020 1:39pm
  - Paulus
    
    Didn’t Shane Jones study at Harvard too ?
    
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    November 20, 2020 1:58pm
- sooty
  
  Crickets!
  
  2 0
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  November 20, 2020 9:35am
- Inandout
  
  iMP, and the US under Trump has cut back its contributions to the wasteful UN.
  
  7 3
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  November 20, 2020 9:39am
- SB2
  
  Obama gets a Nobel Peace Prize for…?
  
  The first African American to become President of the USA
  
  A considerable achievement by any standards especially given his country’s racially divisive past that also facilliated the rise of Trump.
  
  1 19
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  November 20, 2020 9:56am
- Cantabrian
  
  Public servants are not allowed to accept gifts. If they have to, the money or gift must be passed to the Crown. Has/will Jacinda comply?
  
  7 1
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  November 20, 2020 10:38am
- Liberty
  
  Aren’t the Harvard people supposed to be bright?
  And yet they award Dear Leader because she saved the peasants from Covid 19
  Do they know where New Zealand is ?
  NZ is the furthest civilized country from Washington and Moscow.
  So isolated it’s over a 3hr flight from the nearest notable land mass.
  All Dear Leader had to do was seal the border. Not that difficult
  Even then she procrastinated for a month.
  
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  November 20, 2020 11:35am
  - curry4me
    
    Liberty: There are an awful lot of half-smart ‘academics’.
    
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    November 20, 2020 4:07pm
- muppeth8r
  
  wonder if she will be kind and donate it to ppl in need?
  Nah clarke will get a sweet new boat instead
  
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  November 20, 2020 1:00pm
cmm

Labour’s biggest mission should surely be to build a bit of depth for the future.

The Labour Party (as distinct from the Jacinda Party) is the same 20-something % Labour Party that lost the 2017 elections. Indeed, one could argue that Labour today is in a worse postion than Labour in 2017. It is only the Jacindaphoria that distracts and hides that.

Jacinda has built amazing international political capital over the last 3 years and her star continues to rise as it is pushed along by domestic and international forces.

When she shakes NZ’s dust from her boots to cash in her chips overseas (#CinD4UN!) she will take all that political capital with her and Labour will be in a far bigger hole than they were in the 2017 elections.

To a small extent, the same happened when Key left National, but in the Ardern/Labour case it is far, far worse.
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November 20, 2020 8:35am
- SGA
  
  So it’s not in a party’s best interest to have a charismatic and popular leader (that seems the view of many out there, anyway, although obviously her stocks here are lower)? Looks like you are damned if you do, or damned if you don’t.
  
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  November 20, 2020 8:42am
  - cmm
    
    Silly strawman. Nothing like what I said.
    
    Of course it is in the party’s best interests to use all the resources they have available.
    
    But it is also important to develop talent to prevent being a one-person wonder that implodes as soon as that person leaves or loses their lustre.
    
    Auntie Helen was similar in some ways: she micromanaged and purged any capable people around her Leaving us with sad sacks like Goff.
    
    Helen was at least competent.
    
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    November 20, 2020 12:24pm
    - SGA
      
      Strawman, no. I’m not refuting what you say – as you point out, National had the same problem when Key left. A very experienced team was insufficient to win the next election (would they have won if Key had stuck around?).
      
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      November 20, 2020 1:14pm
- DeepBlue
  
  I wonder how much negativity Jacinda can cope with on the home front. She has huge capital but doesn’t seem to want to use any of it. She is also taking a bit more heat from MSM in between the obligatory fluff prices.
  
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  November 20, 2020 8:58am
- MCos
  
  “Labour’s biggest mission should surely be to build a bit of depth for the future.”
  I suppose that would be true if their raisin d’être is staying in power.
  I would have said the mission would be to build the country in line with their policies which is why they were elected in preference to National & all the other parties. Plus the voters belief they have more competent leadership in these trying times.
  Conversely.
  The voters have shown a distinct lack of confidence on all fronts in National and it’s leadership.
  BTW
  Back in 2017 if Labour “lost” the election who “won”?
  Nobody.
  That’s why there was a coalition as there had been ever since MMP came in and there would have been this time if National wasn’t so abysmal.
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:07am
  - cmm
    
    “Back in 2017 if Labour “lost” the election who “won”?”
    
    That would be National under Bill English.
    
    Under MMP rules Labour did not win, Winston did.
    
    7 2
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    November 20, 2020 12:26pm
    - MCos
      
      Clearly National didn’t win.
      You’re clearly arithmetically challenged.
      Furthermore that was an issue with the Nats for the next three years.
      They started acting like an entitled rugby team who carry on believing in their own exceptionalism even as there’re getting beaten.
      
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      November 20, 2020 12:49pm
  - Paulus
    
    Cindy cannot afford to upset the thousands of votes that went from National to her.
    Middle class, White, affluent, educated, women.
    Upset them at her peril.
    La Donna e Mobile – the woman is fickle.
    
    5 0
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    November 20, 2020 2:04pm
    - oob
      
      The Karens.
      
      Superb Verdi reference, Paulus.
      
      2 1
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      November 20, 2020 5:23pm
- pdm
  
  cmm said:
  `Labour’s biggest mission should surely be to build a bit of depth for the future.’
  
  They are – they are bloating the Public Service like it has never been bloated before as well as encouraging as many beneficiaries as possible to stay dependent on the government.
  
  All to maintain their voter base.
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:37am
Simon

Will Kiwiblog stop linking to Lincoln project thugs given that Trump lawyers are targeted for hate and cancelling by Lincoln project?
7 8
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November 20, 2020 8:35am
- Batman
  
  Buy the ticket, take the ride.
  
  Or, if you enjoy a slightly blunter take: fuck around and find out.
  
  8 15
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  November 20, 2020 9:25am
  - RJ
    
    Nice to see the caped crusader supporting lawyers, their families and their children receiving death threats, no surprise there with you
    
    10 7
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    November 20, 2020 9:43am
    - Batman
      
      And I don’t see you condemning those threatening the lives of election workers, officials, or Governor Whitmer (to name a prominent example).
      
      Then charlatans reap what they sow. In this case they’ll struggle to find work outside of GOP circles.
      
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      November 20, 2020 9:52am
emmess

… being good little globalist stooges
7 1
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November 20, 2020 8:40am
- emmess
  
  Delete comment doesn’t work
  
  6 1
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  November 20, 2020 8:42am
plc

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/123447636/please-jacinda-i-need-you-to-give-me-a-tougher-level-1

Baa baa……

“She only locks me down because she loves me”
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November 20, 2020 8:44am
- Inandout
  
  pic, the syndrome is strong in Auckland.
  
  11 2
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  November 20, 2020 9:42am
- oldfella
  
  Pic, isn’t that ‘battered wives’ syndrome? He only beats me because he loves me?
  
  3 0
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  November 20, 2020 10:38am
- RW Capitalist
  
  well, who knew
  Battered wives syndrome, is exactly like covid19 restrictions.
  BTW……….I KNEW.
  
  3 1
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  November 20, 2020 12:41pm
Critical Thinker

President Trump’s campaign lawyer Sidney Powell just came forward with explosive claims of voter fraud and vote counting in the 2020 election:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IREHZrawXa8

– Powell accused leftist operatives of rigging an election for Joe Biden using computer algorithms via the Dominion and Smartmatic voting machines.

– Attorney Sidney Powell Confirms Alleged Dominion Servers in Germany Were Confiscated.

– Powell warned Dominion that the DOJ will be investigating their alleged fraud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZKTSQyPRj4
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November 20, 2020 8:46am
- Critical Thinker
  
  POLL: Only 46 percent of American voters say Trump should concede immediately
  
  https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/526452-plurality-of-voters-says-trump-should-concede-immediately-poll
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:01am
  - SB2
    
    Random sample ? Sample size etc ?
    
    More info on this please!
    
    2 17
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    November 20, 2020 10:13am
    - Critical Thinker
      
      At the bottom of the article.
      ?
      The Politico/Morning Consult poll surveyed 1,994 registered voters from Nov. 13-16 and has a margin of error of 2 points.
      
      10 1
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      November 20, 2020 10:42am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Didn’t you read the Link?
      Statistical data is at the end, including the name of the Pollster company.
      
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      November 20, 2020 11:49am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    POLL: 59% of likely American voters believe that the democrats may have stolen the election
    
    “The partisan breakdown is not exactly what I expected with 75 percent of Republicans — 75 percent! — saying it is very (61 percent) or somewhat (14 percent) likely the election was stolen.
    
    Get this… 30 percent of Democrats — Democrats! — say it is very (20 percent) or somewhat (10 percent) likely the election was stolen from Trump.”
    
    https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2020/11/19/nolte-top-pollster-finds-47-say-likely-democrats-stole-election/
    
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    November 20, 2020 10:46am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Here are the key allegations President Trump’s lawyers presented:
  
  1. Observers were allegedly prevented from watching mail-in ballots being opened.
  
  2. Allegedly unequal application of the law in Democratic counties.
  
  3. Voters allegedly arrived at the polls to discover other people had voted for them.
  
  4. Election officials were allegedly told not to look for defects in ballots, and to backdate ballots.
  
  5. Ballots casting votes for Joe Biden and no other candidates were allegedly run several times through machines.
  
  6. Absentee ballots were accepted in Wisconsin without being applied for first.
  
  7. There were allegedly “overvotes,” with some precincts allegedly recording more voters than residents, among other problems.
  
  8. Voting machines and software are allegedly owned by companies with ties to the Venezuelan regime and to left-wing donor George Soros.
  
  9. The Constitution provides a process for electing a president if the vote is corrupted.
  https://www.breitbart.com/2020-election/2020/11/19/9-key-points-from-trump-campaign-press-conference-on-challenges-to-election-results/
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAn6vAFawXA
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:06am
  - C J Southern
    
    And most of those allegations have already been presented in court and have already been dismissed.
    
    Here’s a a copy/paste of one judge’s comments:
    
    “A motion for preliminary injunctive relief during the interim was denied by Judge Timothy M Kenny stating that the “…Plaintiffs have made only a claim but have offered no evidence to support their assertions.”
    
    “Judge Timothy M Kenny denied of motion for preliminary relief stating that the plaintiffs’ “interpretation of events is incorrect and not credible”, with plaintiffs not fully comprehending the “absent ballot tabulation process”.”
    
    Here’s a running total of case outcomes to date:
    
    Denied: 1
    Dismissed: 9
    Dropped: 7
    Rejected: 1
    Appealed: 4 (not necessarily by Trump’s side)
    On-going: 8
    Ruled: 8 (not necessarily in Trump’s favour)
    
    States turned: 0
    Additional votes for Trump: 0
    Cases of fraud proven: 0
    
    The bottom line is that it’s Trump’s lot who are attempting to steal the election; they’ve made a lot of allegations but have not proved ANY of them.
    
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    November 20, 2020 11:37am
    - emmess
      
      BS, the Trump team have only launched three cases and dropped one because it is unnecessary due to the failure to certify Wayne County, Michigan.
      
      Thousands of additional votes for have been ‘found’ in Georgia alone
      
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      November 20, 2020 1:38pm
      - Batman
        
        Georgia found nothing of note and has now finished it’s audit.
        
        Wayne county has been certified.
        
        It’s done.
        
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        November 20, 2020 4:32pm
      - C J Southern
        
        20-000225-MZ
        4:20-CV-02078
        2:20-cv-00966-NR
        2:20-cv-01445-JCM-VCF
        CV2020-014248
        602-MD-2020
        NO. 2020-18680
        Civ. No. 20-5533
        3:20-cv-10753-MAS-ZNQ
        1:20-cv-01083
        
        Why do you even bother? I mean seriously?
        
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        November 20, 2020 5:28pm
- Batman
  
  Powell made claims, none of which are true.
  
  There are no seized German servers.
  
  The DoJ has not found anything to investigate.
  
  Take your medicine, CT.
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:37am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    We will all discover over the coming days and weeks how much is true ??
    
    Reporter Emerald Robinson: There were reports that a piece of hardware possibly a server was picked up in Germany. Is that true and is it related to this?
    
    Attorney Sidney Powell: That is true. It is somehow related to this. But I do not know if good guys got it or bad guys got it.
    
    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/huge-attorney-sidney-powell-coinfirms-alleged-dominion-servers-germany-confiscated-video/
    
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    November 20, 2020 9:58am
    - C J Southern
      
      “We will all discover over the coming days and weeks how much is true”
      
      So you keep saying.
      
      The ONLY thing that’s happened in the past 2 weeks is that Biden has got two weeks closer to his inaugeration.
      
      PS: You might like to explain why the alleged US forces in the photo of the article are wearing german police uniforms. FFS dude; for starters US forces wouldn’t have a clue where specific data was stored in a large server farm – 2nd-up most facilities encrypt their data – 3rd-up US forces seizing something on german soil would create a HUGE international diplomatic crisis.
      
      Start using your brain and stop believing everything garbage sites like The Gateway Pundit publish; it just makes you look more and more stupid by the day.
      
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      November 20, 2020 11:48am
      - Critical Thinker
        
        Did the US Raid European Software Company Scytl and Seize their Servers in Germany? — Our Intel Source Says YES
        
        “The US government, once they determined that this Dominion server was involved in switching votes, then the intelligence community began a search for the server and discovered that the server was in Germany. In order to get access to that server and have it available for use in a legal manner they had to have the State Department work in tandem with the Department of Justice. They had to request that the government of Germany cooperate in allowing this seizure of this server.
        
        The appropriate documents required to affect that kind of seizure were put in place, signed off on, and it appears there was also US military support in this operation. The US military was not in the lead. But this helps explain why Esper was fired and Miller and Kash Patel were put in place — so that the military would not interfere with the operation in any way.
        
        By getting ahold of the server they now are going to have the direct evidence of when they were instructed to stop counting. They will also discover who gave the direction to stop counting and who initiated the algorithm that started switching votes. The CIA was completely excluded from this operation.”
        https://thespectator.info/2020/11/14/did-the-us-raid-european-software-company-scytl-and-seize-their-servers-in-germany-our-intel-source-says-yes-it-happened/
        
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        November 20, 2020 12:18pm
      - Batman
        
        https://www.dominionvoting.com/
        
        “There have been no “raids” of Dominion servers by the U.S. military or otherwise, and Dominion does not have servers in Germany. CISA has refuted this claim on Twitter, and the U.S. Army has also confirmed to the Associated Press that it’s false.”
        
        Enjoy your fanfic, CT
        
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        November 20, 2020 1:11pm
      - C J Southern
        
        @Conspiracy Thinker
        
        At this point it’s quite clear to me that you’re pretty much completely incapable of decerning credible information sources from non-credible ones; your posts have become about as irrational as those of flat earth and moon landing hoax believers.
        
        I genuinely feel sorry for you because an inability to tell what’s real and what’s not when there’s such an abundance of credible evidence that only points one way must be quite a few steps in the direction of genuine insanity.
        
        Given that there appears little hope of reaching you through logic and reason I think I’m just going to stop giving your posts (and those of a few others) oxygen.
        
        I genuinely hope you’ll stop and think about the absurdity of your position as the clock continues to tick steadily down to Biden’s inaugeration on 20 Jan 2021.
        
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        November 20, 2020 5:52pm
I remember when

NAIT: National Animal Identification and Tracing.
Does this help us to understand the difficulties with National Registers.
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November 20, 2020 8:52am
dcrane

Trump’s legal team, led by Giulinani, summarized their evidence for a stolen election today. Quite interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8LiGZhK-bg
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November 20, 2020 9:03am
- Batman
  
  And quite delusional.
  
  The streak of hair dye down the side of Rudy’s face really caps off the deranged old man routine.
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:34am
  - Inandout
    
    Bat, you must be getting a tad anxious going by your language. The net is closing, ever so slowly.
    
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    November 20, 2020 9:45am
    - Batman
      
      Yes, the net is closing around the delusional Trump and his little band of enablers.
      
      Turns out he didn’t have the best people, just cranks and Rudy ???
      
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      November 20, 2020 9:48am
      - dcrane
        
        It is a shame that the left have been bullying and threatening lawyers who dare to defend Trump. The Herald failed to emphasize this the other day in their article crowing about Trump lawyers dropping out of cases.
        
        https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/11/12/yes-going-after-trumps-law-firms-is-fair-game/
        
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        November 20, 2020 10:23am
      - fernglas
        
        I would be surprised if they jumped because of threats. More likely they couldn’t ethically put forward the arguments they were being asked to.
        
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        November 20, 2020 1:24pm
      - Batman
        
        Fern, Trump’s legal effort is now at 1-31
        
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        November 20, 2020 1:27pm
    - C J Southern
      
      Here’s the offer; if it’s Trump inaugerated on 20 Jan 2021 then I’ll admit that I was wrong and never post here again … if you’ll do the same if it’s Biden who’s inaugerated.
      
      Do we have a deal?
      
      I’ve made this offer to 3 other nutters – oops – I mean “Trump evangelists” and for some strange reason none will take me up on it. I wonder why – I mean; I thought it would be the deal of the century if they had any courage in their convictions.
      
      So – you up for it?
      
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      November 20, 2020 11:53am
      - dcrane
        
        I’m not betting whether Trump will or will not be inaugurated again, although my guess if I have to make one is probably not. Even if there was enough cheating with mail-in ballots and such to swing the election to Biden, it is going to be difficult to get enough justices and/or members of the House to vote to give the election to Trump in this environment. There are powerful forces arrayed against him. It could still happen, however.
        
        Just look at how even today after the total collapse of Russiagate, nobody on the establishment side is willing to admit it was little more than oppo research conspiracy theory disingenuously pushed along by Trump’s many enemies in govt and media. Who here believes that these people would be willing to admit to evidence of cheating against Trump?
        
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        November 20, 2020 1:19pm
      - emmess
        
        No, because let’s say if Trump manages to flip one state due to massive irregularities and turn ten of thousands of votes in many other states but still fails to overturn the result but Biden is inaugurated, who really wins?
        
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        November 20, 2020 1:44pm
    - muppeth8r
      
      Its obvious by batmans change in the last couple of weeks that he knows trumpy will end up winning by legal and constitutional means.
      
      he constantly lashes out now and has become abusive in desparation.
      egg on face for him in the coming months 🙂 he should cut his loses and admit defeat now haha he celebrated trumps demise a tad bit early
      
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      November 20, 2020 3:53pm
      - Batman
        
        Hahaha nah mate, I’m loving this little tantrum from the snowflake goons.
        
        I’m just out of fucks to give for Trumpers
        
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        November 20, 2020 4:40pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        There are several commenters who are going to look very, very silly in a month or two. The phrase “blowing their bolt early” comes to mind. They are very emotional and it comes through in their comments. I don’t see the same flailing coming from Trump’s defenders. Time will tell of course, but the pointless back and forth becomes tiresome after a while. I’m just sitting back, watching and waiting.
        
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        November 20, 2020 5:07pm
      - muppeth8r
        
        Whatever makes you feel better batman 🙂 I eagerly await inaugeration day and wether or not a big trump win list gets mocked or not.
        
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        November 20, 2020 6:12pm
I remember when

“Covid-19: South Australia forced into 6-day lockdown as ‘nasty’ cluster grows:” Stuff 18 Nov.
Is this another scaremongering headline.
Both the SA Premier and Chief Public Health Officer, Nicola Spurrier, stated the speed of transmission was cause of concern prompting the lockdown.
Transmission appeared to be happening within 24 hours of original contact and also even when contact was asymptomatic. The cases did not seem to be severe, in fact most had few or no symptoms.
The 6-day lockdown was to allow contact tracing.
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November 20, 2020 9:03am
Batman

Word of the day: Sedition.

Backup word of the day: fascist.
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November 20, 2020 9:09am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Sedition:
  
  Sedition is overt conduct, such as speech and organisation, that tends toward rebellion against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent toward, or rebellion against, established authority.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw72Iiy6wqU
  
  Fascism:
  
  Fascism is a form of government in which most of the country’s power is held by one ruler. Fascist governments are usually totalitarian and authoritarian one-party states. Under fascism, the economy and other parts of society are heavily and closely controlled by the government, usually by using a form of authoritarian corporatism. The government uses violence to arrest, kill or otherwise stop anyone it does not like.
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:16am
  - Batman
    
    I knew that would get a rise from out resident Q follower.
    
    How’s things CT? Still eagerly awaiting the storm that never comes?
    
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    November 20, 2020 9:39am
  - Sacha
    
    Oh God. Won’t be long before we are being accused of ‘sedition’ by the shrieking media. It will be the new buzz word.
    I will be accused of sedition if I don’t mask up –
    
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    November 20, 2020 11:05am
  - Nickc2
    
    Your Fascism definition sounds like somewhere I am beginning to recognise. Oh, that’s right, it’s lil-olde-NZ since Comrade Cindy’s mob took charge.
    
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    November 20, 2020 12:29pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://rumble.com/vb9bib-giuliani-shreds-reporters-to-their-faces-for-not-looking-into-430am-ballot-.html?
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November 20, 2020 9:13am
- SB2
  
  Steve Otto(North Shore),
  
  this is getting tedious. Giuliani Time’s bore of the year.
  
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  November 20, 2020 10:00am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Go away troll
    
    9 2
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    November 20, 2020 1:48pm
lastmanstanding

Some of you may be following the shocking news from Australia regarding the cases of alleged war crimes by SAS soldiers in Afghanistan.

Australia like NZ is a signatory to the Geneva Convention. That contains the Yamashita Standard established after WW2 to prevent the chain of command denying war crimes and throwing soldiers under the bus.

Unless Australia breaches the Convention then the most senior people must be charged as well and is the soldiers are convicted and punished so must the most senior people.

Politicians are not exempted. Watch this space.
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November 20, 2020 9:16am
- rouppe
  
  Putting that down to “warrior culture” doesn’t sound right to me.
  
  No self respecting warrior will shoot a prisoner who can’t fight back. True warriors do their business in battles
  
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  November 20, 2020 9:22am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  I hope you are correct, the rotations these guys did was unbelievable, just a few elite soldiers doing much of the heavy lifting.
  It is one thing to fight a war in a shithole despot divided country from a office in Canberra, it is totally another aspect to be there carrying out the brief.
  The chair sitters need to shoulder much of the blame.
  
  9 2
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  November 20, 2020 9:43am
- Nickc2
  
  So what’s the answer – only send lawyers to war? Hmmmm yea, let’s do that.
  ISIS and the Taliban are not signatories to the Geneva convention, so what’s the problem?
  
  7 3
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  November 20, 2020 9:51am
  - Nickc2
    
    BTW, the crewman on the helo evacuating prisoners stated he did not witness the assassination of one prisoner, he only heard the shot. What’s to say the prisoner wasn’t released and a shot fired over his head to keep him running away from the helo?
    
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    November 20, 2020 10:01am
  - Mike
    
    The Geneva Conventions bind signatories to minimum standards of conduct in armed conflict.
    Whether the adversary respects those standards is irrelevant to our expectations of our soldiers.
    
    3 1
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    November 20, 2020 4:22pm
- SB2
  
  All the murder of 39 Afghan civilans shows that Australian SAS or other security forcers are not above the law and bound by it foot soldiers or not.
  
  ‘Murders after murders’ villagers tell Afghan journalist
  
  Afghanis who say they have witnessed torture and murder at the hands of Australian soldiers want the chance to testify in court as well as compensation, a journalist says…..
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/431047/murders-after-murders-villagers-tell-afghan-journalist
  
  Indeed watch this space ..
  
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  November 20, 2020 10:08am
  - Nickc2
    
    Villagers in that shit hole will say anything for a cash handout. It’s a way of life.
    
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    November 20, 2020 11:02am
    - SB2
      
      Nickc2 , unlike our own ” villagers” and those so in the USA?
      
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      November 20, 2020 12:46pm
      - Nickc2
        
        What’s your point Stephie?
        
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        November 20, 2020 7:46pm
- G152
  
  -So. The terrorists murdering people is okay but how dare the military kill the terrorists to prevent the terrorists from further murders of civilians…
  Time to hand your cards in and leave the insanity of muslim countries to muslims
  
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  November 20, 2020 10:23am
  - SB2
    
    G152, blaming the Afghanis for these murders?
    
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    November 20, 2020 12:47pm
- Paulus
  
  Hagar said today on the so called media that New Zealand is implicated in such affairs.
  New book for Christmas perhaps ?
  
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  November 20, 2020 2:10pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    He said he had heard rumours. His co-author, Jon Stephenson, seems to think that a different culture in the NZ Army make it less likely that New Zealanders were involved in similar crimes.
    
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    November 20, 2020 6:50pm
C J Southern

US Election Reality Check

Suits filed: 38
Proceedings concluded: 25
Proceedings appealed: 2
States gained due to legal action: 0
Votes gained due to legal action: 0
Cases of election fraud proven: 0

Transition to Biden countdown: 61D 20H 27M

Status: The countdown is proceeding normally. All lights are green. All systems are go
#ReportEnds
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November 20, 2020 9:32am
- Surely Knott
  
  Selective reporting CJ. Your report should include:
  Votes counted as democrats that were actually republican (Michigan) = 6,000 *
  Votes favouring Trump found in a box uncounted (Georgia) = 2800
  
  *The interesting thing about those 6,000 incorrectly recorded votes from Michigan Antrim is that in NZ they were reported in the Herald under the Headline “US election: Trump claims 2.7 million votes were ‘deleted’ by Dominion voting system” They never gave an honest headline that said “6000 Trump votes erroneously recorded as Biden.” And about 10 paragraphs in to the Herald article they do say “While there is no proof for the claims on the scale the President is talking about, there have been some issues with software “glitches”.
  
  Voting officials in Michigan confirmed a software glitch initially gave roughly 5000 votes cast for Trump to Biden in Antrim County, sparking a manual recount, extended voting hours and delayed results.”
  
  So even when a serious election error is found that could support the presidents theory they bury it and still spin it against Trump.
  
  The nz reporting of a glitch is also interesting because now it is false to call this a computer glitch it is now according to the fact checkers a human error. Obviously a computer glitch would have supported Trumps narrative re the dominion voting machines so the narrative has changed.
  
  So if your reporting the stats lets be factual and honestly record the errors in the election process.
  
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  November 20, 2020 10:26am
  - C J Southern
    
    You’re welcome to post including any stats you want and ask that you extend me the same courtesy.
    
    The figures you mention are largely things that are being picked up as part of the routine checks and balances; they prove to document that the extensive checks, balances, and safeguards built into the process are working as intended. They’re not “as a result of proven allegations of fraud”. The only stealing going on in this election is from Trump.
    
    You try to lecture me on being “factual and honest”; the totals I posted are completely factual and honest. I’m more than happy to post court docket numbers that you can search to locate the actual court outcomes direct from the courts if you wish. But while we’re talking of honesty, why is it that you don’t mention the incidents where Trump has inadvertantly been erroniously credited with votes before the mistake was corrected?
    
    Here’s a reality check for you:
    
    1. There has been no fraud proven
    
    2. A small number of mistakes were made in the counting/tabulation processes – these mistakes have been corrected. Those mistakes weren’t picked up as a result of court action – they were picked up as part of the normal checks and balances and would have been picked up anyway. Errors favouring both candidates have been picked up.
    
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    November 20, 2020 12:11pm
- dcrane
  
  Number of weeks into legal investigation and procedures of a claimed multi-state fraud: 2
  
  Number of sworn affidavits claiming evidence of fraud: Hundreds (see press conference today)
  
  Number of reporters interested in seriously investigating evidence of fraud: Few.
  
  Trump may well be proven to have lost fairly (well, setting aside the clearly outrageous news censorship that occurred), but my mind is open.
  
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  November 20, 2020 10:33am
  - C J Southern
    
    “my mind is open”
    
    LOL
    
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    November 20, 2020 12:13pm
    - dcrane
      
      Some very fine people on the anti-Trump side
      
      https://nypost.com/2020/11/18/trump-campaign-lawyer-under-protection-after-threats-of-harm/
      
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      November 20, 2020 12:21pm
      - C J Southern
        
        I don’t condone it, but I’m not in the least bit surprised; that’s exactly the sort of thing that’s likely to happen when they try to pervert the course of justice like this.
        
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        November 20, 2020 5:36pm
ldypen

Nearly on a daily basis we hear how the Government is going to pay, or the Government is going to spend X dollars on whatever is the current wish list, this really frustrates me. I think it’s more than well past time that the media and everybody else changes the narrative.. how about actually stating the truth, its the “people of New Zealand” or the “Tax payers” that are paying for everything, just maybe this might get some of the sheeple to think about where THEIR money is going and how it is being spent.. but of course this will never happen.
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November 20, 2020 9:32am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s the few net-taxpayers who are shelling out. Also our children’s children who will have to deal with the probably illegal money throw around by this govt and its forerunner.
  
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  November 20, 2020 11:30am
lastmanstanding

On the matter of Auckland City and rates not forgetting the interest debacle.

If you go to NZ Stats you will be able to find out the rate of CPI inflation and the rate of average wages and salaries.

So I did. From 1979 to 2019. Then I compared that to the rates i have paid on the same house over that period.

Guess what. My rates have increase at Four Hundred Percent of the CPI and wages and salaries over that period.

I have lived thru East Coast Bays Borough Council, Northshore City Council and now Auckland Council.

I say I and other ratepayers have been robbed over that period. Our services are not 400% better than in 1979. In fact they are worse.

Example. Library hours now shorter. Roads in worse condition.
You have and are being conned by a bunch of shyters.
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November 20, 2020 9:36am
- Ruawai
  
  But lastmanstanding you have the Pride parade.
  
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  November 20, 2020 10:29am
- GJM
  
  Yes. We moved intomy grandfathers hosue in 198. THe rates then, inclding regional Coucinl and water, were $1600 per year. They split off water care, so then there was the cost of water added, rates did not decrease. They did the super city, rates went up.
  20 years later, the rates were $5400 per year for lower service, plus $hundreds for water. It would be getting towards $6k per year. The infflation component is around $2400.
  If Auckladn Cocunl need advice of where to save money, I have lots of good ideas. You would be able to hear the luvvies and lazy useless troughers screaming fomr down in Bluff.
  
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  November 20, 2020 3:17pm
- chukar
  
  Totally agree ,ratepayers have been robbed.
  
  About 10 years ago there was a rating review called the Shand report. This report stated rates would be unaffordable by now.
  The report also offered some solutions
  None of the recommendations were adopted by any government.
  So governments knew and just don’t care.
  
  And core business such as the three waters are in disarray.
  Social spending is now the spend of choice ,bike rides ,libraries , art galleries you name it ,councils are doing it.
  
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  November 20, 2020 5:49pm
NoFax

Big study out of Denmark regarding the use of masks https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

It is short and worth a read. But to sum it up, masks don’t help.
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November 20, 2020 9:42am
- SB2
  
  NoFax, you obviously didn’t read the paper more carefully.
  
  From your link ,
  
  “Mis-representation of research purpose”
  
  Members of the general public are referencing this research as a battle cry that communities do not need to wear masks in public. After reading the entire article, I ascertained that telling the general public to stop wearing masks was not the purpose or outcome of this research.
  During these tumultuous times it might be a moral imperative to include some type of explanation with this research. Very few individuals outside of the medical profession will take the time to thoroughly read the article and analyze the outcomes.
  
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  November 20, 2020 10:05am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    you obviously didn’t read the paper more carefully.
    
    That is a quoted comment on the paper stephieboy…
    from a Brenda Martin … (who identifies that she has a PhD in Educational Leadership).
    
    She is not one of the authors of the Paper.
    
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    November 20, 2020 11:58am
    - SB2
      
      MW, I prefer to defer to organisations like the Mayo Clinic on the efficacy of wearing face masks,
      
      https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
      
      Also, like our Covid health experts reminding us all that facemasks alone are not a cure all. But a highly effective when used in combination with measures such as social distancing, personal and family hygiene. etc.
      
      And John Hopkins research shows they are effective,
      
      https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/08/24/masks-protect-wearer-and-others/
      
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      November 20, 2020 12:53pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Profs Baker and Wilson were advocating wearing masks very early on here in NZ, stephieboy.
        Don’t you remember ?
        
        But Siouxsie Wiles and our Government thought otherwise..
        https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/06-04-2020/siouxsie-wiles-toby-morris-should-we-all-be-wearing-face-masks-to-prevent-covid-19-spread/
        
        Then they had another rethink….
        
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        November 20, 2020 2:36pm
      - SB2
        
        MW, the explanation is give from my Mayo Clinic which you may find helpful,
        
        “..So why weren’t face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At that time, experts didn’t know the extent to which people with COVID-19 could spread the virus before symptoms appeared. Nor was it known that some people have COVID-19 but don’t have any symptoms. Both groups can unknowingly spread the virus to others.
        
        These discoveries led public health groups to do an about-face on face masks. The World Health Organization and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) now include face masks in their recommendations for slowing the spread of the virus. The CDC recommends cloth face masks for the public and not the surgical and N95 masks needed by health care providers….”
        
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        November 20, 2020 3:06pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        SB2:
        
        I’m not sure why you’re lecturing Maggy. She’s always been well-informed on the COVID-19 pandemic and, in fact, on many subjects.
        
        You, on the other hand, seemed convinced that the COVID-19 pandemic (when it was emerging back in March 2020) was nothing to worry about.
        
        Example:
        
        Maggy Wassilieff: Just some rough calculations of possible impact of Covid-19 on NZ. Prof Michael Baker reckons about 40% of the population could become infected over the next 2 years. … So that’s 2 M NZers. [I]f the mortality rate is 1% (and it could be higher), that’s 20,000 dead. [S]pread over 1 year, 20,000/365 = 55 deaths/day. Assuming the very sick and dying end up in hospital, then it’s likely our hospitals and nursing staff are going to be very, very busy.
        
        SB2: MW, note ” could” of the highly speculative kind! …
        
        SB2: … Apologise! This is the time for calm and reason not emotive specualitve projections!
        
        From where I sit, Maggy doesn’t need to apologise to you for anything, but you could behave like a man and apologise to her for the numerous obnoxious and perverted things you’ve said to her over an extended period of time.
        
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        November 20, 2020 5:50pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Ever heard of Taiwan, stephieboy?
        
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7270822/
        
        Ever wondered why I was worried about this virus back in February whilst you were writing defamatory slurs about me?
        
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        November 20, 2020 5:51pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        On 12 March 2020 SB2 shared more of his “insights” on the emerging COVID-19 pandemic:
        
        UrbanNeocolonialist: Dr Fauci, one of top disease experts in US testifying to congress: “People ask, why would you want to make any mitigation? We don’t have any cases. That’s when you do it. Because we want this curve to be this, and it’s not going to do that unless we act now.” [T]o the govt of NZ: ARE YOU LISTENING YET?? Pull Your Fucking Finger Out!
        
        SB2: UN, No reason to press panic button … The US in in a far different position given its dominance in international travel and trade. To date, 1,311 confirmed cases and 36 deaths. NZ 5 confirmed cases
        
        Yes, SB2 dismissed the expert advice of Dr Fauci, and saw “[n]o reason to press [the panic button”. How does that saying from the TV game show go? You are the weakest link. Goodbye!
        
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        November 20, 2020 6:02pm
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Nostradamus, would you mind finding that post on here where you were leaving the building and never coming back.
        From memory, you spat the dummy and were never coming back because this blog’s rules were changed.
        It was quite touching.
        
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        November 20, 2020 8:58pm
      - Nostradamus
        
        Brian McDonald:
        
        would you mind finding that post on here where you were leaving the building and never coming back
        
        I don’t believe that I’ve ever said any such thing. I comment here as I please, when I please, and I don’t require your approval.
        
        Would you like me to pull up your comment from the other day where you impliedly threatened physical harm to a commenter? I guess with your well-known “history” you couldn’t help yourself. DPF said that you’ll be banned next time.
        
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        November 20, 2020 9:06pm
      - softail 1450
        
        SB2, I see they’ve changed the opening hours at St Lukes mall, has that had any affect on your well known favourite passtime SB ?
        
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        November 21, 2020 4:08am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Put up any comments you like Nostradamus, including your departure speech when you ran away with your hidden name.
    Try to toughen up sweetheart. Your reminding me of the disappeared allonpink.
    
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    November 20, 2020 9:11pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      <a href="https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/11/biden_wins.html/comment-page-1#comment-2836715"Brian McDonald
      
      No problem dearest but I’m not chihuahua-like in person as you are welcome to find out. In fact, it would be fun.
      
      [DPF: That is too close to a threat for my liking. Similar comments will attract a suspension in future]
      
      You must be popular at parties.
      
      Try to toughen up sweetheart.
      
      You must have mistaken me for someone who cares about you. If you’re lonely and need attention, maybe try Tinder, or perhaps Grindr is more your thing.
      
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      November 20, 2020 10:10pm
    - softail 1450
      
      Brian Mcdonald ,is it embarrassing this morning looking back at your liqoured up comments from last night ?LOL.
      
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      November 21, 2020 4:01am
- dcrane
  
  The study only assessed whether wearing a mask reduced the wearer’s risk of catching covid.
  
  For some time the main argument for mask requirements has been a claimed reduction of infection of others by asymptomatic/unknowing spreaders.
  
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  November 20, 2020 10:29am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    yes, reduce the amount of virus that enters someone’s body t infection and you increase the time for the immune system to kick into gear and prevent body from being overwhelmed. Getting potentially sick people to wear masks likely makes a big difference to severity of disease caused.
    
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    November 20, 2020 3:26pm
- NoFax
  
  From the paper: “Our results suggest that the recommendation to wear a surgical mask when outside the home among others did not reduce, at conventional levels of statistical significance, the incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection in mask wearers in a setting where social distancing and other public health measures were in effect, mask recommendations were not among those measures, and community use of masks was uncommon. Yet, the findings were inconclusive and cannot definitively exclude a 46% reduction to a 23% increase in infection of mask wearers in such a setting. It is important to emphasize that this trial did not address the effects of masks as source control or as protection in setting”
  
  This was actually our Ministry of Health’s guidance until August. At that point, for unexplained reasons, they changed. So the basic message of person hygiene, physical distancing, and stay home when sick is correct. There is no scientific consensus that masks work to prevent the user from getting it.
  
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  November 20, 2020 3:05pm
Fletch

One of Trump’s lawyers, Jenna Ellis, tore the collective media a new one over their coverage of the election and results, and lack of election fraud coverage.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?ref=saved&v=997200684095478
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November 20, 2020 9:52am
- dcrane
  
  Facebook requires a login to see that….first time I’ve run across this rule. No doubt this has nothing to do with the content.
  
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  November 20, 2020 12:45pm
Fletch

I had to have a chuckle today when listening to the newsreader on NewsTalkZB this morning trying to pronounce the Maori name of the new Team NZ boat. It took him a bit. Why does everything nowadays need a Maori name? It seems to be a requirement by the wokerati.
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November 20, 2020 10:02am
- Inandout
  
  Fletch, I presume that government funding is in the pipeline. On a similar matter, Countdown are going to have a 5 year plan to install ‘people of colour’ into executive positions. We can presume they will be shunted there regardless of aptitude and we all know where that leads in business. Whilst we endure a duopoly these silly ideas will prevail.
  
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  November 20, 2020 10:54am
  - curry4me
    
    Inandout: I’ve got a much longer plan not to ever darken the threshold of Countdown again.
    
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    November 20, 2020 4:20pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Whakawakararomoana?
  
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  November 20, 2020 11:34am
- MCos
  
  The NZ team is partly sponsored by Emirates; the airline may be the main sponsor for all I know.
  I wonder what would have happened if they’d insisted the boat was named Muhammad or similar.
  A few people would have swallowed their false teeth if a Maori name provokes such consternation.
  
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  November 20, 2020 3:54pm
Maggie Pie

Thort this was worth sharing with the group….

Not getting a good nights sleep? Restless legs (RLS) a problem? Well, i may just have the answer. SOAP. In particular, Lavender Soap.

Simply slip a bar between the sheets at the foot of the bed before hitting the sack. It’s amazing! I did it without telling my partner all this week and honestly, he went out like a light. He even remarked this morning how well he’s been sleeping.
So give it a go and let me know if it works for you.
Thank me later later 😀
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November 20, 2020 10:21am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, Geoff Sinclair used to sing the praises of magnetic bed ware and swore it helped him sleep.
  
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  November 20, 2020 10:57am
- Sacha
  
  I heard that an onion did the same, or a dry crust of bread.
  But, hey . . .
  
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  November 20, 2020 11:09am
- Fletch
  
  I think my mom does something like this…
  
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  November 20, 2020 12:19pm
Catgurl13

In this article of fluff, Clarke says Jacinda was elected to the office as PM in 2017. Umm no she wasn’t,she became leader when Andrew left and then she was made PM because of Winston actually.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/life-style/love-sex/123455058/clarke-gayford-jokes-he-is-punching-above-his-weight-in-relationship-with-jacinda-ardern
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November 20, 2020 10:28am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Hilarious. Some fun with US politicians.
The United Spot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buYEHF-feDI&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR0VLJWl0v_xddXdS4qo7ceVZ210IA_2R7dyNs1KbLbJVI5JbJYEYQQQ4Qs
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November 20, 2020 10:41am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://uniteamericafirst.com/code-monkey-and-inventor-of-email-said-to-be-assisting-trump-with-exposing-dominion-voting-systems/?
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November 20, 2020 10:50am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Lawmakers spray and walk away. Typical.
https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/17/california-and-washington-lawmakers-flee-to-hawaii-after-cancelling-thanksgiving/?
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November 20, 2020 10:55am
- Inandout
  
  Steve, the deeply hypocritical Newsom calls ‘do as I say…’
  https://www.foxla.com/news/fox-11-obtains-exclusive-photos-of-gov-newsom-at-french-restaurant-allegedly-not-following-covid-19-protocols
  
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  November 20, 2020 11:02am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yeah well now the prick can dine at the Sheraton Kona. ‘Ray’s on the Bay’ is great but fucking expensive. US$400 for a 3 course meal for 2, in the evening. Breakfast was the guts of US$100. Cereal and poached eggs on toast ffs. But they do look after you
    
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    November 20, 2020 3:54pm
- MCos
  
  Yesterday there was a post about misleading headlines.
  There’s an article on that website with a headline stating Trump won the Presidential Election. The article is about the 2016 election!
  
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  November 20, 2020 11:26am
  - Inandout
    
    MCos, ok we know the left is different.
    
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    November 20, 2020 1:00pm
dcrane

Apparently mail-in ballots this year were rejected at historically low rates in key states like Pennsylvania, even though many people voted that way for the first time.

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/pa-26000-mail-ballots-should-have-been-rejected-year-less-1000-ultimately
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November 20, 2020 11:32am
- Inandout
  
  dcrane, one day our media will be allowed to tell the truth about the US election:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWWBzMFi09k
  
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  November 20, 2020 1:09pm
- fernglas
  
  Perhaps those who had previously voted in person were more careful with ensuring they did their ballots properly. Is there any mention of the demographics of the enlarged voter numbers who voted by post, or are we just assuming that there would be the same proportion of numpties amongst them as there were in previous years?
  
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  November 20, 2020 1:36pm
Swifty

“Don’t make me kill you….”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTQfqaSOCQY

“So you have chosen death…..Heeeyaaaaaa!”
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November 20, 2020 12:03pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Are your children/grandchildren struggling with reading?

Could be because some of their teachers don’t know how to teach reading. (surprise,surprise!)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/rnz/300163434/schools-footing-bill-to-teach-teachers-how-to-teach
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November 20, 2020 12:14pm
- cmm
  
  How does a teacher that does not know how to teach gets employed?
  
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  November 20, 2020 12:29pm
  - SB2
    
    Reading skills or not is a ongoing litany by education traditionalists ( rote robatic learning and so on) .
    
    We still need to give deep thanks how our educational shytesm unrelently contines to produce top gradutes where it really matters.
    
    Not forgetting most students who leave school equipped to face the real world of employment and make their valuable contributions to society.
    
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    November 20, 2020 12:37pm
    - Swifty
      
      40% of New Zealand school leavers are functionally illiterate – i.e. have a reading age of 12 or lower and read a newspaper with great difficulty.
      
      That’s a damnable statistic of which we should be ashamed.
      
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      November 20, 2020 1:38pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      SB2:
      
      a ongoing litany [sic]
      robatic [sic] learning
      our educational shytesm [sic] unrelently [sic] contines [sic] to produce top gradutes [sic]where it really matters.
      
      You’re a poster child for literacy!
      
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      November 20, 2020 2:58pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        So funny. Poor Steffie has been trying sooo hard to be a good little troll , writing comments of more than 4 words and dropping the once-obligatory ‘LOL’.
        
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        November 20, 2020 3:17pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Oh dear….
      
      have you forgotten the dreadful statistics of folks sitting in our prisons, stephieboy?
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/84820782/twothirds-of-prisoners-cant-do-everyday-literacy-tasks
      
      Have you forgotten about the pathetic long-tail of under-achievement in NZ schools?
      
      The system is struggling to address a persistent long tail of underachievement. There are
      persistently poor outcomes for some groups of learners, especially children in socio-economically
      disadvantaged communities, and Māori and Pasifika learners.
      https://www.productivity.govt.nz/assets/Documents/4771bd784d/Draft-report-4_Educating-NZs-future-workforce-v2.pdf
      
      Now, I don’t know what your background in teaching reading or literacy is Stephieboy… but I can guess.
      
      I think it is probable that you have never sat alongside a young man in a classroom and shown him to hold a pencil and print his name, or pointed out to a 4th Form girl (year 10) that stop, stopped, stopping and stops are different words with different meanings.
      
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      November 20, 2020 4:23pm
  - Inandout
    
    cmm, begin with diversity and compulsory marae attendance. Then if there is any time left learn grammar and spelling.
    
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    November 20, 2020 12:59pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The teacher who can not teach can actually teach – but only one subject, how to vote Labour
    
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    November 20, 2020 1:54pm
Catgurl13

Another nothing fluff media piece about Lorde this time. She just doesn’t get it,that trying to be political without knowing the consequences, means you end up stepping on toes and ,losing your followers and your support. Such a try hard wannabe celeb.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/losing-my-free-will-why-lorde-left-social-media/Y3IR2ZIKYPEPRJQ562UK5IQVRM/
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November 20, 2020 12:31pm
Lance

Shock Horror!
The gas in the Universe is now 10 times hotter than it was a billion years ago.
It’s no longer “Save the planet”… It’s “Save the Universe”.
Turns out it’s most likely caused by colossally large gas clouds slowly coming together.
Here is the link for the skeptical:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdOy0itpeZY

Hmmm…. so how do I fleece the gullible out of squillions of dollars so they can virtue signal they care about the Universe? So many options
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November 20, 2020 12:42pm
Maggie Pie

I see my comments are still pissing off a few people here.

I must be doing something Right.

😀
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November 20, 2020 12:52pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Those people are pissed off 24/7. They were born like that
  
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  November 20, 2020 1:52pm
I remember when

If Joe Biden had taken over the Presidency but not had time to implement any changes to the US covid policies – would the death toll be lower?
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November 20, 2020 1:08pm
Batman

And we have made it, we’ve reached the end point of Trumpism.

Sidney Powell: “The entire election, frankly, in all the swing states should be overturned and the legislatures should make sure that the electors are selected for Trump” https://t.co/gA6aFVhvdt

Congrats Trumpers! Please enjoy your lifetime association with Stalin, Mussolini, and other luminaries of the strong man club.
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November 20, 2020 1:30pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  In last minute bid for victory, Trumpy changes name to Joe Biden.
  
  Happy?
  
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  November 20, 2020 1:40pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That will work, coz the real Joe Biden does not know he is Joe Biden.
    But it is sad that the crooked left are using a very sick man in this way
    
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    November 20, 2020 1:51pm
    - Batman
      
      Better to have a stutter than to have a number of mental health issues, including a borderline personality disorder
      
      5 9
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      November 20, 2020 2:00pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Dementia is a mental health issue Batman. I despise the Democrats for using Biden in this way – it is sickening
        
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        November 20, 2020 2:28pm
      - Batman
        
        Steve your continued smearing of stutterers as having dementia is offensive and frankly you can do better.
        
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        November 20, 2020 2:52pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Batman, show me where I mentioned ‘stutterers’
        I genuinely fell sorry for the man – he has dementia
        
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        November 20, 2020 3:41pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  So according to you, simply following the US constitutional law is somehow on par with being in association with the likes of Stalin and Mussolini… ? ?
  
  Lol! Get a grip Batty ?
  
  https://youtu.be/phoqkX8R4qc?t=136
  
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  November 20, 2020 1:46pm
  - Batman
    
    No, not when the result is clear and states are certifying their votes.
    
    Then it’s a coup.
    
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    November 20, 2020 4:31pm
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Sidney Powell is a woman.
  
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  November 20, 2020 2:20pm
  - Batman
    
    Did I say he?
    
    Whoops. I definitely know she’s a woman, and a QAnon crank.
    
    3 5
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    November 20, 2020 4:36pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      You cite a woman, then say this proves Trump is a strongman. I don’t see the connection. BTW, there is nothing wrong with strong men.
      
      Have you seen her resume? [ If you want to beef about moderators, take the beef to DPF. If you want to continue expect the posts to be deleted. And possibly your posting rights ]
      
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      November 20, 2020 5:30pm
- Fletch
  
  What you mean to say is – join Biden in using the same voting software to commit fraud as was created and used in Venezuela to get Maduro and Chavez elected.
  
  Fixed it for you.
  
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  November 20, 2020 4:07pm
  - Batman
    
    I didn’t realise Joe Biden was in charge of selecting and using voting software?
    
    That seems like an obvious gap that the GOP should have plugged while in power, no?
    
    4 6
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    November 20, 2020 4:54pm
    - Fletch
      
      It’s the Democrat governors of those states that chose the software, and some of them got kickbacks for using it.
      
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      November 20, 2020 6:25pm
I remember when

Taranaki Regional Council: Waterways Report Card 2020.
Our monitoring results are encouraging.
This is particularly the case for the overall ecological health of our rivers and streams, and for summer swimmability at popular sites inland (fresh water) as well as on the coast (marine).
Our rivers and streams stack up pretty well against existing national standards.
Our progress is the result of investment and hard work – by farmers fencing and planting their streambanks and by industry and communities eliminating waste discharges to waterways, or significantly reducing their impact.
We’re talking about millions of dollars and thousands of hours of work.
The Government’s new requirements mean there is more work ahead.
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November 20, 2020 1:40pm
I remember when

Will Trump be remembered as ‘The Apprentice’ President!
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November 20, 2020 1:51pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

OAN. Biden listed as a criminal suspect.
https://twitter.com/SatoshiMed/status/1328537623967772672?s=20&fbclid=IwAR1TqxIdGPIPeP06dT-46OeqA44q8Bgs7XmS3_ryQF_vtfEmxv4vtZ4bFEs
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November 20, 2020 2:16pm
- dcrane
  
  When Biden has outlived his usefulness to the Clintonites and Obamanites, they’ll have little trouble getting rid of him.
  
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  November 20, 2020 2:30pm
Batman

Video: Tucker Carlson is off the fraud bandwagon and attacks Sidney Powell.

“Tucker Carlson calls out Sidney Powell, saying he asked her for evidence to support her election fraud claims, but “she never sent us any evidence despite a lot of requests, polite requests, not a page.”

“When we kept pressing she got angry and told us to stop contacting her.” https://t.co/IOlOdhp6MJ
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November 20, 2020 2:53pm
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  I love it when you cite Fox News when it suits you, and repudiate them when it doesn’t.
  
  7 2
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  November 20, 2020 3:44pm
  - Batman
    
    Good for the goose etc
    
    2 6
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    November 20, 2020 4:41pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Explain.
      
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      November 20, 2020 5:27pm
- Fletch
  
  Of course she is not going to send him evidence. Not until it is presented in court. Do they want to give the Dems a warning, and time to cover their asses? To clean up their mess? Nope. Let the world know at the same time when it is presented in court.
  
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  November 20, 2020 4:04pm
  - Batman
    
    Narrator: she never did provide the evidence. Not a single page.
    
    2 7
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    November 20, 2020 4:55pm
- RJ
  
  No, really, a lawyer won’t give the media evidence before using it in court, who would of thought, I guess the stupid people that think legal matters should be heard and judged on by the media.
  
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  November 20, 2020 4:29pm
  - Batman
    
    What about one who believes any random crap sent to her on the internet and got her last client a conviction for being a foreign agent?
    
    2 6
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    November 20, 2020 4:57pm
Maggie Pie

Everyone knows Trump won!

FFS.
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November 20, 2020 3:06pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  And will win again
  
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  November 20, 2020 3:42pm
- RJ
  
  Not everyone Maggie, just those that aren’t corrupt.
  
  It’s good to see that dominion employees and democrat monitors are now stepping forward with the fraud and corruption they saw taking place.
  
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  November 20, 2020 4:19pm
surfing

I wonder at what point a die hard Trump supporter might start to question their loyalty towards him?

Would they care if Trump committed serious financial fraud or tax evasion?

I’d suspect they’d deny or justify.
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November 20, 2020 3:44pm
Inandout

The left now twist Joe’s dementia by saying he stutters. There is no end to tribal excuses.
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November 20, 2020 4:02pm
- Batman
  
  Ahh yes, he’s been pretending to have a stutter his whole life as a preventative measure against dementia. Genius!
  
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  November 20, 2020 4:52pm
  - Inandout
    
    ‘JoeJoe was a man who thought he was President
    But he knew it couldn’t last’.
    
    5 2
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    November 20, 2020 5:08pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Well done. Most will miss this
      
      1 2
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      November 21, 2020 7:50am
RJ

Interesting reading

Election Fraud Expert Russ Ramsland Files Affidavit Showing ‘PHYSICAL IMPOSSIBILITY’ of Election Results in Michigan

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/boom-election-fraud-expert-russ-ramsland-files-affidavit-showing-physical-impossibility-election-results-michigan/?fbclid=IwAR0I_jxGeB7jQwXdLp_bsi-PIkWdBnsN-fg9pdEi7VD9kU8QJiBtujXvl60
6 5
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November 20, 2020 4:18pm
- Batman
  
  You mean the failed Republican Primary candidate?
  
  Oh look, they’re running already-debunked theories:
  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/16/technology/a-website-funded-by-right-wing-groups-gains-followers-with-debunked-voting-fraud-claims.html
  
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  November 20, 2020 5:02pm
  - Inandout
    
    Bat, CNN and NYTimes same stable. Open your mind and spread your wings.
    
    4 1
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    November 20, 2020 5:09pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Any headline like that is contrary to sound journalism. When the top trial lawyers announce and publicly show they have substantive evidence it is reasonable to accord them a hearing. Even jnr jounos should know the earlier skirmishes by people who lacked standing in the Courts were annoyances not legal trials as there could never be an effective outcome.
    
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    November 20, 2020 5:45pm
MCos

Tweet of the day
https://twitter.com/rmayemsinger/status/1329591416176091136?s=21
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November 20, 2020 5:24pm
Maggie Pie

Trending Twitter…

HDPA admits hubby uses black ‘Vivid Marker’ on hair
8 2
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November 20, 2020 5:27pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, has he actually got any hair?
  
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  November 20, 2020 5:36pm
- sooty
  
  Whinestone swears by Greeceian 2000!
  
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  November 20, 2020 10:39pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh Dear…
This South Australian Pizza Bar isn’t going to be too popular
Premier ‘fuming’ over individual who ‘deliberately misled’ contact tracers
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6211081356001
5 1
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November 20, 2020 6:05pm
- Inandout
  
  They must enjoy their pizzas and forget the hype. More chance of getting knocked down by a bus on an Alice Springs country road than catching C19.
  
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  November 20, 2020 7:48pm
emmess

To Batman, CJ Southern and all the other fraud deniers
Can I ask have you watched the Guliani press conference?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChPZ8749oXo

Until then
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November 20, 2020 6:22pm
Jim

Catholic country on track to become more progressive than New Zealand.

Pardon me, but J—-, Mary, and Joseph! If my dear friends from St. Iggy’s were still around today I’m sure they would approve.
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November 20, 2020 7:15pm
Tauhei Notts

I have seen the latest comment by Nanaia Mahuta about China. I read it and thought that she bears a marked resemblance to a marionette for whom the bureaucrats at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs are pulling the strings.
Would you call me unfair if I suggested that Nanaia knows more about cartoons on a face than she will ever know about the myriad of provinces in China.
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November 20, 2020 11:30pm
Tauhei Notts

528 minutes in moderation!
Is that a record?
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November 21, 2020 8:18am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0GR7j0APdg

Russia looks ready to snatch Africa from Jinping’s talons.

Russia’s President Vladimir Putin is muscling his way into the African continent. Until now, China was looking to colonise the resource-rich continent but growing Russian interests in Africa is directly undermining China’s extensive influence.
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November 21, 2020 12:12pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdwcrFu5Tds

‘THEY ARE HIDING!’ Dominion Voting Systems BACKS OUT of Testifying in PA

The Penn GOP are taking charge of election stuff. Dominion Voting Systems
were called to testify. They backed out. The Republicans held a news
conference, and torched them. DVS have nothing to hide. Or do they?
Certification has to be stopped because then, nobody has 270 votes,
and the election goes to the house. Each state has one vote. There are 31
Republican delegates, and 19 Democratic delegates. There is a sworn
statement from a mathematician alleging [Prof Miller of Princeton] fraud. There
were voter interviews, and absentee ballots that were not counted. So, there
are up to 100,000 votes that are contentious. More than enough to cancel
out Bidens lead in Penn. Lots of afidavits alleging malarkey, and problems
with the equal protection clause.
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November 21, 2020 12:13pm

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